"The Two Trees" by Valerie Hudson Cassler from our 2010 FAIR Conference (slideshow with audio)

[@lindaayre]

Years ago I read the book by Dr. Cassler and Alma Don Sorenson called Women in Eternity, Women in Zion. There is a chapter in that book that teaches these principles in an expanded way. I loved it and read it multiple times. What a joy to hear her speak on this subject!

[@bobwilkinson1217]

When one thinks about it, women are a veil for spirits to enter this mortal life-- hence our bodies are truly temples.

[@michaelcrowley9008]

These teachings ring true in the Holy Spirit in me. One thing, that the point that we are co-equal companions, I think is represented in being One Flesh also. Most especially when you explain that women guard the way into this life and provide the way into it through the viel. And that men guard the way off it at the viel. Two stewardships that are nessesary. Makes me recall the dispensation heads of each times of the earth. Joseph Smith is our dispensation head. Others are likely; Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham. Etc.

[@victoriagledhill5872]

Love the way she explains it.

[@bonnienandino6942]

I watched this speech awhile back and found it to be extremely fascinating.

[@CMZIEBARTH]

"Help meet" is often perceived as a noun, when really "help" is the noun and "meet" is its adjective.

[@TrendyStone]

This is fantastic!

[@candystickdonut]

Very interesting. Especially with what this weeks come follow me is focused on. Great to listen to after reading through Moses

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

Equal in worth. ❤

[@whoknows1972]

I have been saying for years that women bring children into the world in a physical body and men bring us back to God. Women are connected to children through the umbilical cord and through men we are linked with the spiritual cord when we are sealed. The saving ordinances are things that women can't do, just as men can't give physical birth. I hadn't really thought of the trees in regard to harkening, although I had considered the reason for the different trees. They were linked in my mind as opposites that both need to be partaken of, but I had not really ever spoken of it as two trees and two people. I really like your explanation of the harkening that you pointed out. Thank you for speaking up about these! You do it very well! Also, I feel that women have already received their version of a Priesthood ordination in the pre-existence, which is why females don't need a Priesthood ordination like the males do before they can do temple work.

[@Guycjohnsen]

I attended a class at Texas A&M called "the bible as literature" taught by a Hebrew professor who had an interesting description of "help meet." He said that "help meet" was best understood as "fitting antagonist". Of course the christian kids in the class were very much upset by this idea. However, I have found this analysis to be very insightful as to the "counterpart" or "comparable" notion within the hebrew text.

[@CMZIEBARTH]

In all three scriptural accounts it is only Adam that is commanded by the Lord God not to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Eve isn't even around yet when this occurs. Of course it is very likely that it is Adam that later conveys this to Eve; however, after they both partake the Lord God asks only Adam, "Did you partake of the fruit that I commanded you not to?" To Eve the Lord God simply asks, "What have you done?" without including the part about the commandment. Still later on the Lord tells Adam, "I have forgiven thee THY transgression in the Garden." There is indeed the thing about how "Adam" can sometimes mean "Adam and Eve," but in these situations it appears that the Lord God is intentionally placing less culpability and blame, and possibly none at all, on Eve and more allowing her to go about bringing mortality and then spirit children to the world. And, yes, Eve does say, "Were it not for our transgression... " but when we look at all the wording we have to consider the possibility that the commandment really was just for Adam even though practically everyone, themselves included, *thought* the commandment was for Adam and Eve. Also, yes, the temple account is different because it is taking Adam and Eve's story and adjusting it to represent each man and woman's journey into and through mortality and beyond.

[@sierrabarwick5181]

How have I never noticed this before? 🤯

[@CMZIEBARTH]

@@sierrabarwick5181 I didn't catch it either until I read an Erastus Snow talk in the Journal of Discourses that elucidated it.

[@brianbacon3106]

The rabbi I studied under in the Midwest translated “Adam “ of ha Adam as being human so to say Adam Adam where art thou? Is gender neutral human human where art thou? We hid ourselves because we were naked. Naked being without protective garments (necessary outside the garden) rather than nude. Between these two explanations the Protestant world seems to have followed a different path. Sister Hudson’s explanation seems to ring true because it shows such reverence and respect for both gender and the temple endowment even at its most deepest ordinances. Excellent presentation

[@thunderandrain09]

Moses 4:22 In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

[@sophiamcl]

But is this prescriptive or descriptive of what to expect in a fallen world?

[@thunderandrain09]

@@sophiamcl I believe, more to the point, that some women intuitively understand that their sex rule the world, and are comfortable in their position as they should be; while the others are forever struggling to assert their “rights”.

[@andresalderete]

@@sophiamcl descriptive. If you notice in the temple endowment, the Father didnt yelled or diminish adam or eve. In fact he tried to help them to come out of the mess they got into. Satan is the one that tries to put fear in adam and eve towards the Father.

[@christopherrandallnicholson]

@@thunderandrain09 What "rights" do you not think women should have asserted? The right to own property? The right to vote? The right to divorce? The right to receive actual medical treatment instead of being diagnosed with hysteria (a sexist word derived from the Greek word for "womb")? The right to attend college? The right to equal employment opportunities? The right to equal pay? The right to not do 100% of the menial household chores that either sex can do just as well? The right to open a bank account or have a credit card in one's own name? The right to not be abused? The right to not be sexually harassed? The right to justice after being sexually assaulted? The right to protection from spousal rape? The right to have a legal identity separate from one's husband? I'm sorry, but to claim that women have "ruled the world" while being systematically mistreated for thousands of years, and that they should be "comfortable in their position", is woefully out of touch with reality and irredeemably sexist. Women have had to fight for every right that men have ever given them. Dr. Cassler would agree with me - she identifies as a feminist and has written recently in the Deseret News about how women are still mistreated throughout the world today.

[@thunderandrain09]

@@christopherrandallnicholson of course the Dr. would agree with you. Let me ask you one question: why do men, with all the power as you suppose, get up in the morning, every day, and build? Work? Toil? Please think before you answer.

[@straithill5965]

True the church doesn't baptize people that are practicing polygamy, but men are sealed to more than one woman in the temple on a regular basis. According to the handbook, men can be sealed to another woman after a previous spouse dies, but a woman cannot be sealed to a second spouse after her husband dies unless the previous sealing is cancelled. Does this not support the notion that men can have multiple wives in eternity?

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

No. Consider that it's an incorrect practice. Adam had one wife, Eve. Since the beginning we're commanded to cleave and be twain. Twain means two.

[@juliegundersen5203]

I'd love to get the book that was read at the end. Where can I find it?

[@brianbacon3106]

Cedar Fort Publishing prints her book they have a website

[@billysunerson]

This really seems like her ideology has overwhelmed her doctrinal understanding. God was pleased with Eve's choice? That is the opposite of what the scriptures teach. She was beguiled, it was not time yet for the fruit and that is why God forbade it. She ran out ahead of her guide and trusted in the arm of flesh. When it was time for fruit, God would have given it. Satan, after all, was just doing what he had seen the Gods do in other worlds.

[@brianbacon3106]

Perhaps we need to read the scripture as Israelites and let G*d prevail rather than Protestants like the fray in the neighborhood