The Ultimate Argument Against Protestantism - Jay Dyer

[@JayDyer]

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[@Ghest735]

Hello Jay Dyer I don't understand English, could you put the availability of the translation in French in all your videos please thank you because I would like to understand you video but since I am French I can not understand thank you

[@andvol2642]

Mr. Dyer, any plans to have a debate with James White on the topic of the Sola Scriptura?

[@diannebutler1807]

Jay, I am very newly finding your page. Can you please help me understand what you mean by "the Orthodox" Church? Greek Orthodox? Russian Orthodox? Can you please explain further?

[@cayetanohuett9037]

@@diannebutler1807 Eastern Orthodox would be the terminology that you're looking for, all Eastern Orthodox churches are in communion with each other although there are multiple autocephalous churches with different Bishops presiding over them. But look up Eastern Orthodox and you will see all the Churches that fall beneath that title. i.e. Greek, Russian, Serbian, Antiochian, Romanian etc etc

[@tipr8739]

This was my first intro to Jay Dyer. It still cracks me up. Makes me want to get the gout so I can get healed

[@baskatz3443]

I put my hand on the screen and fell to the floor speaking in goober

[@orangeshining9478]

I CAN WALK AGAIN

[@Anonimni7]

Truth.

[@nemo.0755]

@@GeeeEmmmLMFAOOOOOOOO😭😭😭😭 as much as I love this comment, because i seen the video of this, but i am finding it hard to understand things like homosexuality and the Church. Like i dont know how one could choose their sexuality like i know i didnt. I hear pastors and bishops speak on it but im still finding it troubling. Mostly concerned because it’s affecting one of my friends 😓

[@spencer6758]

@@nemo.0755Let me just throw in my few cents. >The LGBTQ attacks marriage and identity. >Our identity does not need to be questioned because we already know what we are simply from Genesis. >When you don't know your identity, you get lost and confused and believe in things that are not godly (homosexuality to try and answer that identity question) >We're in an era of pride month, the mass are saying "it is okay to be who you are! Embrace yourself!" >We christians deny ourselves, so when you have the lost and confused face these two paths they will usually fall for the one that gives you an external and short-term "acceptance" either consciously or most of the time sub-consciously.

[@StevieD1x]

No you can't

[@StevieD1x]

Sure, sure, sure.

[@justanotherlikeyou]

Dude, that transition from the TV preacher to the calm, cool, Jay was hilarious😂😂😂

[@JOBENWING]

Jay! I've been suffering from gout flair ups and constant pain over the last year and after watching this video, my foot almost instantly became free from pain. Keep doing the Lawd's work Pastor Jay.

[@saint-jiub]

Ive been suffering from my first gout flare up this month in my whole life. I just woke up to a throbbing foot that felt like it's broken from no where. It's horrible! God speed.

[@BozheTsaryaKhrani]

@@saint-jiub my gout started a second before watching this then it got healed

[@ro4486]

@@saint-jiub have you tried watching this video?

[@saint-jiub]

@@ro4486 yea i was just being real for a moment. Pastor randy bawles is pretty funny

[@that_sun_guy6527]

Pastor Randy Bawlz 😏

[@unibrowsheepZ]

I just finished Fr. Josiah Trenham's "Rock and Sand" last week, so this video is quite well timed. I would recommend the book for any Protestant who is looking into Orthodoxy. I found his explination of the Filioque particularly enlightening for me as a one looking forward to becoming a catechumen.

[@anon.carpenter4201]

🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻

[@annk.3545]

Just in case you didn’t know, there’s also an excellent two-part interview with him: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppq5laWqnNRqjtk

[@stephen.alexander2370]

One of the most helpful books during my conversion from protestantism to orthodoxy

[@theophilus5777]

I’m a Protestant as well who also coincidentally started reading Rock and Sand right before reformation day! It has certainly made me begin to question my faith in the Protestant tradition. Yet, I have so many questions that I wish I could ask someone! I wish I had a priest to talk to!

[@christhayer5034]

I thought it was pretty surface level stuff. Good book but nothing deep. Now read the book Through Western Eyes by Robert Letham.

[@ryanre103]

Jay Dyer back at it again, healing the GOUT

[@AdVeritatemEamus]

Did you put your tongue on that daddy-Scofield-study-Bye-bull? If not, it doesn’t count;)

[@constructivist6]

love that hard cut from silly goofy Jay to serious theological Jay

[@bowie8338]

I grew up with too much DIY sludge. Finally converted earlier this year and took my mom to her first Liturgy yesterday. God bless you dude

[@renee6989]

This was a big problem for me as a Protestant. On one hand they’ll booster up our church fathers and tradition as “competent authorities” to argue in favor of the reliability of the canon of scriptures to non believers. Then on the other hand, these “competent authorities” become irrelevant on other issues such has liturgical worship, sacraments, etc. This really bothered me. If you can accept their word, authority, and consider them credible to give you arguably the most important information of Christ through the scripture, then who am I to reject them elsewhere???

[@vigilantezack]

Just cause they are ancient and dead, doesn't mean they were always right about everything they ever taught or thought in their life ;) Church fathers can be right about some things and wrong about others, just like all of us.

[@obscuredictionary3263]

@@vigilantezack He is talking about practice. If you read literally any of the Church Fathers the liturgy and rituals they describe do not match up in any way with Protestantism. In Orthodoxy we literally believe the Church Fathers can be wrong and are fallible (they don't all agree with each other anyways) but one thing that can be confirmed is that the rituals they describe do not match Protestantism in any way (besides perhaps Lutherans and Anglicans to some extent) suggesting many protestant rituals are simply made up.

[@vigilantezack]

@@obscuredictionary3263 all rituals are made up.

[@obscuredictionary3263]

@@vigilantezack You are protestant right? Because a ritual is any religious practice, like singing or communion. If you are secular then yes I suppose you would think that.

[@vigilantezack]

@@obscuredictionary3263 No, I just mean rituals are made up. The very first ritual was a made up ritual. There are no magical rituals are floated down from the heavens or something. People always made up what they wanted to do. The only rituals actually given to us by Jesus are baptism and communion. Everything else we do in church, no matter the denomination, is the made up stuff. Preach from scripture, help the needed, fellowship together, encourage and teach each other, etc. Nobody ever said we had to kiss rings, bow to idols, venerate saints, pray to Mary, use certain instruments or only sing mediaeval chants. I'm pointing out that when you said "suggesting many protestant rituals are simply made up", I'm saying, yes, as are the rituals of every denomination.

[@tubalcain6874]

I’m 64, and late in life had my fill of the DIY church of me Mr. Dyer speaks of, converted to Orthodoxy, and never looked back. I can count my regrets in life on one hand, and having not converted to Orthodoxy sooner in life is one of those regrets.

[@Day9age]

He is merciful to the last and provideth for the first; and to this one He giveth, and to that one He showeth kindness. He receiveth their labours and acknowledgeth the purpose, and He honoureth the deed and praiseth the intention. Wherefore, enter ye all into the joy of our Lord, and let the first and the second take part in the reward. (Easter Homily of St. John Chrysostom)

[@eiontactics9056]

@@tubalcain6874 You will regret it, when Christ returns. Please 🙏, if you want to know anything about Biblical Christianity, just read your Bible to understand it and believe what it says plainly. If you think a so-called church that literally contradicts Christ and the Apostles is the right move... then you don't know Christ. Feel free to ask any questions, as I find it sad that people get beguiled into false religions for all the wrong reasons.

[@OceanAPG]

@@eiontactics9056all this yapping just to not join Jays stream and debate him. Your position is literally saying “I know more than those appointed by the apostles and that the first 1000 years of Christianity is wrong but mine is right”

[@eiontactics9056]

@@OceanAPG When is his stream? I would love to debate Jay on the gnostic originated Marian doctrines he holds to. The second part of your comment was just a strawman, nothing of actual substance.

[@sonofawsome]

That hard cut at the beginning is Nasty!! 👍 Thanks for the condensed info here my dood!

[@sabrinafair35]

This is the most lucid, informative response to the question I have had for a while now. We have been attending an independent Baptist church for about a year now. I rejected neo-evangelicalism and Calvinism, then embraced the KJV. Still, if I believe Sola scriptura, why are there so many variations of Christianity? Christianity was not invented by Martin Luther. So what happened? Who carried this on? Who decided what would go into the biblical canon? What was worship like for early believers? And so many other questions. I mused “Am I to believe that Christianity didn’t exist in its true form until the Great Reformation?”. Jay, thank you for this. Wow. You characterize Protestantism perfectly: “do it yourself” Christianity.

[@johnflorio3576]

Protestantism is “Burger King Theology.” Have it YOUR way…

[@alexanderpacheco9919]

Protestantism isn't supposed to be the result of getting rid of the Church but is believed to restore it back to how it's portrayed within Biblical text. You can look at this historically when we observed Proto/Pre-Protestantism way before Luther made this very exact case. When we ask ourselves about the canon, what assures you the Orthodox/Catholic church might have a specific origin to it? We've had people reiterate NT books before the Orthodox church "canonized them". We certainly cannot put this claim of inerrancy especially when the first time the Ortho-Canon formed it was just a rough draft of what became much later on added books (not to assume the rest were false pieces). You can find out what worship was like as well, the tradition of the House of Prayers carried along just fine within the New Testament. Worship has no complex guidelines, it simply just involves your commitment

[@sabrinafair35]

@@alexanderpacheco9919 watch the video.

[@alexanderpacheco9919]

@@sabrinafair35 how does that refute me

[@sabrinafair35]

@@alexanderpacheco9919 watch the video

[@nathangracchus2928]

Some may say that was dramatic but that was literally my childhood Pastor from Alabama in the intro. Good stuff Jay

[@George-ur8ow]

The first two minutes felt like was being hit in the face with a coat by Benny Hinn

[@mahirsantal2867]

Hahahah!

[@resonanceliteracy]

I was healed from gout watching this video. Don't let Jay fool you. His channel is infallible.

[@anon.carpenter4201]

God be with you in your labors, thanks for helping me on my journey to orthodoxy.

[@justin_sanchez_]

Jay, I know you're probably working on a million things, but an article/short book that covers philosophical/theological arguments against Protestantism would be invaluable

[@JayDyer]

Get my red book

[@justin_sanchez_]

@@JayDyer Word, will do.

[@eiontactics9056]

@@justin_sanchez_ I think you should rather focus on actually reading the Bible to understand it and believe what it says plainly, before you do anything else. This is, of course, if you actually care to know what Biblical Christianity is from God Himself.

[@djrobinson6602]

I converted to Catholicism last Easter but I will read your Red Book and see what you say, especially about the Papacy 🙏🏾

[@djrobinson6602]

@@mojo7495 I don’t need advice from a heretical Protestant lol

[@David-kz2im]

@@djrobinson6602 Pray that God grants you the correct understanding of any material that you read, and not confusion or misguidance.

[@djrobinson6602]

@@mojo7495 Yes because of course everybody is unbiblical except for your tiny sect that didn’t exist when the Bible was written

[@EdWard-ie5wn]

Man you need to go down to the strip mall and get saved by pastor Reebus. Afterwards we have a Bible study/barbecue at big willys smoke house. Hallelujah

[@ArsenAcero]

In thinking about joining orthodox church , your videos are very helpful

[@xiham4612]

Glory to God!

[@George-ur8ow]

Contrasting Orthodox epistemology ("how do we know what we believe is true?") With that of the Roman or Protestant epistemology is the heart of the issue. In Orthodoxy, it is the collective lives of the saints of the Church over time that reveals true theology. Saints are those that we are assured of by and through the Church are truly, now, in heaven (that is why, for example, Archangel Gabriel is a saint, despite not being a human). For people that are saints, educational degrees are meaningless. So is title within the organization of the Church when ascertaining whether or not an individual is a saint. This is fundamentally different from post-schism Roman or Protestant belief, where educational background and scholastic achievement are emphasized ("Was he a Cardinal?" or "does he have a PhD?"). These are of little matter in Orthodoxy. The bellwether is this: whether or not that person achieved "Theosis" or union with God during their very lifetime, while here on earth. Theosis is a much different, I would say "higher level" of what one may know as a Roman Catholic or Evangelical, who often use the term "Deification" or "Sanctification". Theosis differs in many important details. We believe that we can truly participate in the Divine Nature (see 2 Peter 1:4, amongst many other scriptures). It is the goal of every Orthodox Christian to attain the state of Theosis. Again, it is the COLLECTIVE lives of the saints - not any particular saint, none are infallible - all have fallen short of the glory of God, all did and said things that were wrong. But where the consensus of the saints lies, that is the Orthodox Church. This is different from Rome in that we do not believe in a single, infallible person who is always perfectly supreme and infallible in Dogma (that is the major reason why Rome left Orthodoxy). The protestants were right to reject this, Luther himself recognized indulgences and supremacy were incorrect dogma promulgated by the Pope at the time and he was rightly disgusted by the practice; this is the majority of his 95 theses that started the reformation from the Roman Church. The epistemology problem continues on in Protestantism, however, as one single human being, - formerly the Pope - is now replaced with yet again, one single human being, for each individual who has the ability to obtain a copy of and has the ability to read the word of God, apparently, has the inerrant ability to interpret scripture by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This is obviously not the case, or we would not be having this discussion! it should obviously not be the case simply because if it was, then, there would not be 10,000 protestant sects with wildly different beliefs based off of the same set of scriptures. This may sound harsh, and keep in mind, the quote is not mine - but that of an Orthodox Saint - "Rome and the Protestants have abolished Christ to Heaven". He means this: by replacing the collective body of the living, visible Church with the individual, (a single man in Rome, or every man in Protestantism) rather than the Holy Spirit, they are relying on individual man, rather than God. The scripture can never be divorced from the Church in Orthodoxy, for the scriptures were organized by the Church by the work of the Holy Spirit operating through real, visible men that were a part of the Orthodox Church (the canon was not even collected until the 6th century). In Orthodoxy, Theosis is a pre-requisite to becoming a Saint - recognized either before or after that person's death. So, in like manner, we believe that the collective body of those that were in union with God through the Holy Spirit reveals true theology. We believe that Orthodox theology is by and through God speaking through man, and not man's ability to academically or scholastically interpret the written scripture. "So how are we to distinguish between a good tradition and a bad one when it’s taught from a seat of authority?" It is through God himself, operating by and through the Holy Spirit in the lives of the collective body of Saints - the Church - that we are able to distinguish good tradition from that of bad tradition. It is the Church that is important here. Again, full circle; was the Church real, and visible, and given unto living men at Pentecost, of whom we know the names of the first bishops of in Orthodoxy, traced unbroken to today, or, is it invisible? If it is invisible, then, holy tradition can be discarded. If it is visible, then, discarding the real, visible Church means that we can discard the collective lives of the saints and the holy tradition passed down to us, leaving us "to be swayed by every wind of doctrine". Would the Holy Spirit abandon the Church until the 16th century? I personally was critical of this approach when I first learned and explored Orthodoxy; now, it is not even a question. If you criticize this epistemological approach I certainly understand, having done so myself - but please do proffer your alternative if you do so. Truth is a person: Jesus Christ. The Church is the Body of Christ, it is the "Pillar and Ground of the Truth" and "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it". The ultimate act of knowing Christ is to carefully examine oneself and then participating in the Eucharist; for the body of Christ partakes in the body of Christ! Holy Tradition is the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church. God will never abandon the Church. While individual Christians - including Orthodox ones - whether parishioners or even Bishops may teach heresy, the body of the collective Church will never espouse false doctrine.

[@keltonschleyer6367]

This was very well articulated, thanks!

[@LightningStriker1]

I am healed by the shades of jay

[@GenXPirate]

So does that mean I can quit going to the "First Double Apostolic Church of the Word of the Evangelic Snake Handlers of the Holy Spirit of the Anointed Prophetic Servants of Jesus Christ The Son of God"? That sucks man, I was just memorizing my life verse. Cause everybody asks you your life verse or you're not a good protestant: "Behold, I will smite all thy borders with gay frogs"

[@HickoryDickory86]

Is that really a thing now, the trending fad... life verses? 🙄

[@GenXPirate]

@@HickoryDickory86 It was one of the many wierd quirks I noticed when I went with a friend to their megachurch. (They were trying to save me to "real" Christian faith; speaking in tongues, tithing to the megapastor and a few other things that made me feel really cringe)

[@HickoryDickory86]

@@GenXPirate Lord, have mercy. That's one I hadn't heard of, but I'm honestly not surprised. I bet they all proudly knew their Enneagram type, too, and are completely oblivious to the fact that the Enneagram literally originated with a man who channeled a demon that was impersonating an angel. I agree, though; evangelicalism is just filled with top-to-bottom cringe.

[@moejoe6422]

ayeee jay lookin like a youth pastor in the start 🔥😂

[@PomazeBog1389]

I'm throwing money at the screen but nothing is happening?

[@Holupgarcon]

I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness and was one for nearly 30 years. I was a 'ministerial servant' and at one point a 'regular pioneer' meaning I had special evangelical training and helped lead the congregation with public talks and in the field ministry. A few years ago I began to drift away from the church spiritually after moving away from my parents physically. I never became an atheist, but I wasn't sure what I believed. Recently I've begun to rediscover Christ especially after I bought the book Religion of the Apostles by Stephen de Young. I want to attend an orthodox service soon and this video was very illuminating for me. Thank you.

[@matthewgarcia6320]

Great book. I grew up as a JW - family and I was baptized last year in the Orthodox Church! Go and check out the Divine Liturgy, for us it was life-changing.

[@andys3035]

That's quite the journey! I grew up oneness Pentecostal and was Calvinist after that. I recently was baptized into the Orthodox Church on Lazarus Saturday this year. It's the best decision I've made. I also read The Religion of the Apostles and it's a great book. God bless you on your journey 🙏 ☦️

[@TommyGunzzz]

Did you end up ever going to a service?

[@Holupgarcon]

@@TommyGunzzz yes! I went to two. I should go to another.

[@TommyGunzzz]

@@Holupgarcon definitely. Talk to the priest

[@orthonews2176]

It's all true what Jay is saying Protestantism was in invented in the 16th century.....this was a very painful fact that I had to face about 18months ago......this channel has some great material if you are searching for the historical truth about the church

[@HandlesAreStupid2024]

You were unaware of that before? rofl, how is that any refutation for Biblical accuracy?

[@orthonews2176]

@@HandlesAreStupid2024 Read it again......if Protestantism is a novel invention from the 16th century- then it's obviously not connected to the early church.

[@josephsaab7208]

@@HandlesAreStupid2024 Because Jesus Christ our Lord states that the gates of hell will not win over the church. Yet the church didn't exist until 1600 years after He ascended? lol

[@xavieryounger1631]

@@mojo7495 Yeah, instead they say the Church experienced a 1,500 year blackout which isn’t much better.

[@yungspaghetti1685]

@@xavieryounger1631 no they don't say that, strawmanning as always

[@tipr8739]

I want yo see more Pastor Jay’s Healing Faith and Praise Hour, sponsored by Shoney’s.

[@1FLEXAHOLIC]

This is incredible. You’re leading me down a rabbit hole that I think might have me converting to orthodoxy

[@HandlesAreStupid2024]

Thanks for the laugh Jay. Quality costume day content.

[@alan7761]

Barking noises and dancing on the floor

[@rinwesley3092]

Jay, you too much! You mimic these charismatics perfectly. 😂

[@Eloign]

He literally doesn’t. He’s a clown. It’s funny but it’s not what you see in reality.

[@Eloign]

@@JLeppert I've been in local Pentecostal and Charismatic churches for years and I've never seen that. It's literally a TV thing.

[@david-468]

@@Eloign funny your church is most likely funded by the “tv thing”

[@orth-h0p]

@@EloignProtestant alert 😢

[@Legitimate123]

That intro LOL. I love it.

[@FreshPelmeni]

"Father God, I just wanna thank you, Father God, for Jay Dyer, Father God, who just, Father God, is so faithful to you, who just loves you so much Father God, who just prayed for my gout in my chin and it disappeared, just, instantly, Father God, thank you for sending your Spirit to just heal me, Father God In the name of Jesus amen!"

[@TheTrueMendoza]

It really do be like that

[@HickoryDickory86]

How to recognize evangelical prayer: 1) Are "Father," "Jesus," "God," "Lord," or any combination thereof used as punctuation marks throughout the prayer? Check. ✅

[@marjoriezimmerman3969]

They take the place of ‘uh’ and ‘like’. Very funny I thought I was the only person who got crazy with all the justFatherGod stuff.

[@bryanfrosting]

Jay I've seen that Sean Lennon, John Lennon's son follows you on IG. Would be cool if you had him on your channel in the future.

[@TheHihocandycane]

"Happy Reformation Day"

[@willtheperson7224]

The real demonic holiday

[@Felipe-kv8qd]

@@willtheperson7224 that reply was as savage as Genghis Khan's demolition of Baghdad

[@mr.seapig2811]

LMAO😂😂😂 I was in stitches for a full minute…

[@photonjohnny]

I do suffer from Gout sometimes. But I must watch this protest of Protestantism. Mercy!!!

[@JustinMF11]

Its a high possibility that I'd understand this way more if it was in Pidgin. I'd like to test my theory, Jay.

[@homeboyjethro]

I'm touch'n the screeeeeeen ✋✋✋✋🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@TheRealRealOK]

For real, my gout is gone!!

[@homeboyjethro]

@@TheRealRealOK 😮😮😮😮😮🔥🔥🔥👑👑🤣🤣🤣✋✋✋✋✋✋

[@blockpartyvintage1568]

@@TheRealRealOK (gout comes back when I turn TV off) bummer😝😝😝

[@TheRealRealOK]

@@blockpartyvintage1568 Noooooooooooooo! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@TheRealRealOK]

@@homeboyjethro YT only shows your reply in my notifications. 👀☠️

[@JulianLife81]

You are nuts! 🥜 keep up the awesome work!!

[@TA-SEN]

I agree with some of your points. I was raised Protestant. I disagree with your statement that anyone can start a church after being ex communicated. In most denominations you can become ordained which is a process. If you teach or go against the biblical teachings you will loose your ordination. Another issue I think is, tradition is also not infallible. You could say the Catholic Church is infallible but they have pretty much left god in a lot of ways. I believe that the Holy Spirit guides and reforms and moves us. Jesus came to destroy tradition because it separated men from god. Tradition is not infallible it can become distorted over time and God moves in different ways at different times. I think having a rigid structure is not what Jesus came to establish. Paul was dealing with problems in every church. It was not perfect back then. I think if we believe we have it right then we are wrong. I believe god won’t let us settle into a rigid belief because he wants us to be humble enough to admit we don’t know everything and never will. It’s a heart posture not a position of the mind. I think Enoch should have been in the bible.

[@TA-SEN]

@@internautaoriginal9951 I know we don’t know who wrote enoch but it is referenced in scripture in the book of Jude and I do believe Paul read it and pulled a lot of his theology from it. I think Jesus quotes it as well. We assume Moses wrote genesis. I think Noah wrote it because in the book itself enoch told him to recorded everything and came back to tell Noah about what was going to transpire on the earth.

[@TheLikesofMeh]

The thumbnail alone fixed my blackened thumb nail! Hallelujah!

[@Mongoosemcqueen]

Hallelujah!

[@jerome6193]

Excellent video! Thank you.

[@zeefranx4509]

That intro CRUSHED ME😂😂😂😩😩😩

[@Sophie-lg4li]

I click on this video so many times just to watch the intro

[@sirlithius]

We are not taking about pirates and cannons.

[@hinglemccringleberry9494]

Preach it from the Giblet, YESSUH!

[@haileyjohnson9942]

thank you. this has really helped me figure out why I have always had a hard time just reading the Bible by itself....it would make sense that if its intended to be a liturgical text to be used in worship, that might explain why i have always had trouble with it. I have only ever been exposed to Protestantism bc of where I live (the south, USA), and they always make it seem like "you read the Bible and the Holy Spirit speaks to you" and so I always thought I was not getting it. Also the weirdness with the Bible itself, I always wondered how they "knew" the books were right but then they reject the other stuff ? IDK if this comment is making any sense, but I just want to say thank you for articulating the issues I (didn't know I) have with Protestantism

[@OrthoNektarios]

I left protestantism for other reasons but after doing much more research into things and watching Jay dyers videos which are tremendous which can be fact checked and such and also talking to my priest and listneing to other priest such as josiah trenham on these issues. I found many more reasons to leave and i am very glad i did and found orhtodoxy. Thank you very much for all that you do, I pray nothing but blessings for you and your family and I hope that your able to debate some really good protestant apologist like Ortlund Gavin someday!

[@OrthoNektarios]

@@mojo7495 cool so basically everything you said was arbitrary. You go based off your own mind and heart. It’s funny as well, Martin Luther who started Protestantism which you are apart of still believe in the body and blood as said in John 6 and in the last supper. I bet that’s too hard of a teaching for you huh? Well goes to show how the Jews reacted when Jesus told them the same thing.

[@OrthoNektarios]

@@mojo7495 also if you have such confidence in it. Why don’t either debate me in a zoom call or something or even debate Jay Dyer. If your interpretation is not arbitrary. Because it’s funny how 13000+ denominations of Protestants can read that same text and almost everyone has a different opinion on what it means. Goes to show you guys have no justification for anything you say.

[@OrthoNektarios]

@@mojo7495 i didn’t try to critique anything you said. I just made a general statement, because I’m not going to sit here and write a book of everything you just said. I offered a debate because that’s where I can refute your objections respectfully of course. You cool with doing that or?

[@OrthoNektarios]

@@mojo7495 also the 13000 denominations is an under exaggerated as well… fyi

[@OrthoNektarios]

@@mojo7495 cool man, if your confident and you think I can’t refute. Set up the zoom call and throw down the ID and passcode right now then.

[@fumples4080]

PERFECT TIMING!!!!!

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

The definition of Sola Scriptura I grew up as a Lutheran with wasn't that the Bible was the one and only thing that you have to listen to, but that the Bible is the source that informs the traditions and the church as an institution and a community. Sola Scriptura as an idea is also not a doctrine but more of a slogan aimed at Roman Catholicism, basically telling them, "What you are doing goes against Scripture" (said in a German accent). Sola Scriptura is not supposed to be a knife that someone uses to cut away everything that isn't explicitly quoted in the Bible. Also, Lutherans read James. We originally called ourselves "German Evangelical" because we don't see everything Luther wrote with absolute authority. He was the first of a group of German reformers who originally wanted to either change the Catholic Church or seek communion with Constantinople. Neither happened, so here we are. The one thing I will concede is that Lutheranism is super Balkanized because of a very loose and confusing structure. ELCA is huge in America, and LCMS is much smaller, but has a lot more connections in communion with the Siberian Lutherans and "German Diaspora" churches in Central/Eastern Europe. Also, the ELCA is liberal to the point of insanity.

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

@@thotslayer9914 Still Lutheran.

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

@@thotslayer9914 Yes, for sure. I have more disagreements with the Roman Catholics than with the Orthodox Church though. I can't really point to anything that I completely disagree with Constantinople over, but I think that it is up to my church hierarchy to seek communion with the Orthodox Church through a council if they feel inclined to do so. I took a vow to the Lutheran Church when I was confirmed, and I think holy vows have binding power.

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

@@thotslayer9914 That is true, but even if the LCMS broke up, I see going to a conservative "confessional" Lutheran church as within the spirit of the law. If I still lived in the town I was confirmed in, I would simply keep being part of that parish wherever it goes, as long as there's not gay pastors involved.

[@bigniftydude]

​​@@pavelthefabulous5675most LCMS would say ELCA is not Lutheran. It's a huge shame too because they have the biggest pull in the US under the banner "Lutheran" and deviated from what that meant more than any other denomination. They are quite literally ruining the notion of Lutheranism. LCMS is conservative. The liturgy is beautiful and simple. Doing it the same way since it started, hold the occasional contemporary "later morning" service

[@dailyDorc]

Get the Scofield out Lee Mcdonald needs his healed appendices back!

[@apologetik8830]

The first to watch the good video ☦️

[@jcunha67]

Catholic here, That opening had me dying.

[@MaximusOrthodox]

Become Orthodox

[@alexdiaz155]

@@MaximusOrthodox This is not how we win when it comes to apologetics.

[@MaximusOrthodox]

@@alexdiaz155 Point is not to “win” just to bring people to Orthodoxy.

[@matthewoburke7202]

@@MaximusOrthodox The see of Rome is the see of Peter the rock. I will not leave this firm foundation.

[@MaximusOrthodox]

@@matthewoburke7202 The Rock was Peters confession of faith and two chapters later it says that all the Apostles were given the keys.

[@georgeluke6382]

As a Protestant, I really appreciate Jay's push here. Jay, have you read Webster's "Holy Scripture" and Kruger's "Canon Revisited"? Looking at those with "The Biblical Canon Lists from Early Christianity" and Vanhoozer's "Biblical Authority After Babel" have kept me Protestant. If the question is how did the canonical community recognize the norm of faith and make sense of competing canons, given the lack of literacy, and the canonical context of the ancient instititutionally visible apostolic church, then why should the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura work, I think Webster and Kruger's should help a lot. Piper's "A Peculiar Glory" is great too on the epistemic component relative to Kruger's model. Agreed on the normative model needing some objective personal authorizing source. And really appreciate hte recommendations from Bruce, Macdonald, and McGrath to understand more.

[@hollybancroft8217]

This is a compelling argument. But, there are three things I have yet to understand: 1. Would the Orthodox call the canon an ‘infallible list of infallible books’? What authorities are considered to be without error and falsehood in the Orthodox mind? 2. How do you determine that the church has the authority to decide once and for all which books to be included in the canon? I know there are scriptures which uphold the authority of the church, but if the authority of the church is based on scripture, and scripture is determined by the church, is this not a circular argument? 3. How do I know which church authority got the canon right? Other non Protestant Christian traditions include different books. If I must look to history to determine which has been the most unchanging, then am I not ultimately relying on historical modern scholarship to determine what is true? (the Protestant overuse of scholarship to arrive at truthful biblical interpretation was one of the critiques of this video) If anyone could offer any answers for these questions, I would appreciate it so much. I am truly seeking the truth and trying to make sense of these arguments. Pray for me!

[@hollybancroft8217]

@@metrab8901 Thanks! I will look into those resources

[@RomanTheSlav.]

ironic twist, Jay develops gout

[@Sam-ig9bj]

Yes, major logical fallacy's and inconsistencies, great video ☦🙏

[@christopherdavis7069]

Hi, Baptist inquiring over Orthodoxy, one of my friends and I are look it over and discussing it. We seem to be able to look past all the solas with the exception of Sola Fide. Romans 4:5 is what we are thinking over and what the orthodox view of this verse is. 2nd Timothy 2:13 in relation to eternal security.

[@Bakamojo]

2 Peter 1:20-21. Now become Orthodox. You can’t go through every Church position and check it to your own private interpretation. The Church is the pillar and ground of truth and The Body of Christ. If you find out The Church is disagreeing with something you initially thought then congrats. You were wrong. Humble yourself. The question should be if The Orthodox Church The Church Christi created or not. Focus your search there. Follow the Council’s which are the authority and guidance of The Holy Spirit. It’ll lead you to The Orthodox Church clearly being The Church. Throw out your solas and find The Church.

[@xiham4612]

Who cares about ur random exegesis? It's the whole approach that you need to throw away.

[@xiham4612]

@@mojo7495 nobody cares your interpretation. You worship yourself in protestantism

[@christopherdavis7069]

@@JLeppert I see where you are getting at, thanks for the words and the resources. As my friend and I are saying, this is a big shift from what we have known and lots of mental barriers would have the be broken. I’ll be sure to check out the podcast. Ive only been a Christian only for a bit over a year and in this time I’ve felt my faith be incomplete. Which fathers should we start reading first? Also is Augustine just misunderstood since so many Calvinists reference him. I hate Calvinism in the first place it put me in a very dark place spiritually after I converted. Blessings

[@christopherdavis7069]

@@JLeppert also I wasn’t just quoting the Bible as it’s the only truth claim, I just wanted to know how the verses are viewed from orthodoxy

[@Anonimni7]

These arguments should be sufficient for one's truth yearning path towards The One and Only Church.

[@christianorthodoxy4769]

From his Giblet' Lol. 😥🤭😢

[@dopejoel]

Lol not a bad Jim Jones sermon at the beginning.

[@WODKABURGER]

I FEEEL IT!!!!!!!

[@NJS181]

Great content, thanks for the video Jay. A new rather pathetic argument I’ve been hearing from Protestants is…”As long as you truly believe what you’re following is correct then it is correct and God isn’t so petty he’d punish you for that.”…..believe it or not that’s an argument verbatim that I heard the other day. At this point in my personal experience I hear better arguments from the trads, whom I have the most unfortunate displeasure to debate often.

[@Georgios1821]

Keep up the Great Content

[@GlobeHackers]

That was amusing. I enjoy taking the whatnot out of Mevangelicals. "Drop that cross, boy; God wants you to be rich!" The rest of the talk was informative, as usual. You are a fine Pedagogue. #TheLindyEffect

[@fadeitluie9356]

Jay Dyer is the More Plates More Dates of Christianity 😂 love em

[@no2nwo525]

It wasn't just a matter of doctrine but also of language. The Christian Gospels were written in Greek and Greek was the language of Christianity in the first few centuries until it was replaced by Latin and other languages in the western half of the Roman empire.

[@gunnarr9882]

I’m still getting over my John Gerstner and acolyte Sproul teen teaching. These guys were dinner table friends. Not..quite…right.

[@PhilAlumb]

Hysterical and often accurate.

[@BackToOrthodoxy]

What’s your thoughts on Dr. Michael Kruger’s works? As a Protestant calvinist I have been studying canon and am seeing this. But I am still firmly sola scriptura. I will say this is the most ive been open to Orthodoxy.

[@geoffjs]

Protestantism is false and Sola Scriptura is unbiblical and heretical. It does not contain everything Jn 21:25 and the Church is the pillar of Truth as it preceded the bible which was codified in 382 before pope Luther removed 7 books without authority Deut 4:2

[@qparxiii]

Protestant EX communication is when the church knows you're playing strip twister out of wedlock so you just find a different church where the "elders" can't call you out yet and her "EX dude" can't find you to whoop that azz 🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏻‍♂️⚡

[@bcbennet1]

Hi Jay, as an Evangelical Protestant apologist I would love to debate you on the topic of "Protestantism vs Eastern Orthodoxy," would you like to do this?

[@KulturKampf777]

Great video

[@genesiskeglar6372]

So what you’re saying is that you are not going to heal my gout, now?

[@GenghisKhanBruseySkyz]

Thank you Jay Dyer!

[@slavi7191]

I love his obnoxious sense of humour: really speaks to me. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Shout out from an Orthodox sister from 🇨🇦

[@idkwhtmynameis1993]

This shit is so over my head i do not know where to go to get the information i need thats dumbed down enough for me

[@runly1]

God is not the author of confusion. Try Voddie Baucham.

[@d.rey5743]

It isn’t actually confusing when you just look into these things more and you get familiar with the terms and topics. I was in the same position as you not understanding all of these issues

[@ДмитрийГасанов-к6ч]

Thank you dear brother Jay.

[@enoughnonsenseplease3780]

Best transition ever

[@SlimeySlimeball]

Random question, will there be any engagement with DBH book “Tradition and Apocalypse”?

[@nickstebbens7454]

"but with God all things are possible, except incarnation in human form" - the message of Protestantism

[@nickstebbens7454]

I was trying to set up a system whereby I needn't prove I'm God every _______ lifetime to have my words be seriously regarded

[@nickstebbens7454]

(...IsChristKing)

[@nickstebbens7454]

craftsman... not high priest

[@catalyst3713]

I'm confused. Aren't most protestants Trinitarian?

[@nickstebbens7454]

@@catalyst3713 in theory, yes, but those I've asked have gone with the 'all-pervasive all-knowing creator outside of reality' opinion

[@JustRach.S.]

As a prodistant, I actually found this to be funny. The divide of christ followers that are devout that follow and read the Bible to others who follow nothing believe all kinds of nonsense and it's all a show. It's is truly sad that this is a thing. I understand why many view prodistants as heretical for this very reason.

[@cameronhicks8196]

0:01 is every black church ever 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@wedi-set577]

Could you recommend a good book on Orthodox original sin? Maybe one with an apologetic orientation to western notions?

[@Straikett]

Bro went from street preacher to redstone lets play tutorial youtuber.

[@DailyCorvid]

Hey there is nothing wrong with Minecraft! Since 1.8 it's been absolute fine :)

[@Straikett]

@@DailyCorvid 1.8 is better

[@jentaylorwarren9095]

Love your intro !!

[@EricBarbman]

15:20 etc. Same thing with the Eastern churches that accepted the Apocalypse as canon in the Xth century based the fact that Rome and Alexandria recognised it as canon.

[@ancientsoul5608]

Nobody ever talks about the Philokalia.... what a shame

[@carolinetrace894]

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky do...

[@antonioj.castaneda7377]

“…he can’t sing from his giblet…” 🤣

[@disgustingcyclops6423]

Hi from Russia! Jay, you will be doing new criticism on the channel "Reason & Theology"?

[@xiham4612]

He has 10 years and 200 hours of criticism

[@disgustingcyclops6423]

@@xiham4612 where?

[@Johnnydiamondlonglive]

Top shelf refutation, solid as diamond, as watertight as my daisy dukes.

[@gracenroses7471]

Serious questioner here: I’m looking into orthodoxy for myself but what I’m struggling to find information on by is….well to ask it frankly, is Orthodoxy Supersessionists? What is Orthodoxy’s view of the Yeshua believing Jewish people. According to the original apostles they were bringing Gentiles and pagans into this new Messianic Jewish faith. did orthodoxy absorb it? Any book suggestions on the topic? Also some truly amazing arguments on scripture not being final authority. I’ve never heard that before and you basically can’t argue against what you said. That’s pretty irrefutable. Scary to know that I held something to be true that is actually undeniably incorrect.

[@StrugglingProtestant]

We Orthodox believe that the Church is the New Israel.

[@MoziBear]

That beginning was excellent 🤣

[@stargategoku]

Thanks for your video but it would be good if you could debate Anthony Rogers about Sola Fide or Sola Scriptures because William Albrecht didn't not take the challenge and it waits for more than a year.

[@arthurhyatt4664]

Which Churchs are correct then and how do we know?

[@jeremiahjames1506]

Hahaha that transition… nice

[@KittSpiken]

22:00 that seems more a blessing than an issue.