The Ultimate Guide To Mid Game [Mage Edition]

[@nickashman6987]

Legendary face card on this one Curtis

[@dinar4331]

2 stacking waves to not be stuck in dangerous part is such a easy thing to do and add to my play, thanks. just a natural extension of fundamentals I didn't think about.

[@MakashiOwns]

Big agree, probably the strongest and clearest takeaway from this. I think about stacking waves and slow pushing them all the time in the context of laning but never in midgame.

[@axb_zero8457]

i love the fact that Xerath is in this TWICE, as hes one of the hardest sidelaners in the game, when u can play midgame/sidelane with him u can do it with anyone

[@lachiemunro7]

Amazing explaination, so intuituve, straight to the point and clear. Might just be that the Aussie accent is so much easier to hear as someone with ADHD.

[@NiwatiX]

Thank you so much, I've been playing consistently everyday for 2 months now, I'm learning quickly with all the high quality guides on the internet, but your focus on mid (because that's where I feel the most comfortable) really work well with me. I've made ton of progress watching your channel recently.

[@zachariesmith7174]

Insane quality content, thank you Curtis !

[@falseegaming8656]

More videos like this please with different champions! (Diana would be great/any assassin.) this was very digestible and made a lot of sense

[@Kerua]

Asassin version pls

[@simhanssens7331]

Practically the same just the complete reverse when grouping. Play around vision, picks & flanks.

[@TaconIStenen]

Your wish has been granted lmao

[@EdoQiyana]

The Goat has uploaded again.

[@miduser7674]

28:39 Curtis outlines his dead botlane: "they're actually doing a pretty good job" 😅

[@rokasb9441]

Thank you so much Curtis!

[@MarcoMontagna]

Amazing content, as usual..! A quick question: from which rank do you think we can apply this kind of approach to midgame?

[@alix8503]

damn curtis clearly has been watching my slightly tragic practice sessions this week, because i've been struggling to figure out mid game as a mage lmao. perfect timing, sir, my future teammates all thank you!

[@MakashiOwns]

FR, what to do on a Mage when I know I'm weak sidelane and have the greatest impact in teamfights but also don't want to split farm with my team by grouping has been a question on my mind for years.

[@sebastiandorflinger3587]

Yo curtis you also take the chill pill if your Team is super behind? Because I managed myself to accept that I dont have to be in each play, when we are ahead. But when we are far behind it feels so much harder to not try to be the playmaker. Good work bro keep going ❤

[@marcusscribner1603]

Can you do one of these for a champ like cassio? Love this video thank you!

[@SploogeScrooge]

Great content, thank you

[@Sharkenjoyer862]

Would love to see an assassin guide

[@SploogeScrooge]

Good news

[@cafkonk2688]

What a banger ! Thanks you coach !!

[@markovchainz8314]

Thank you for this amazing video commentary. Really good stuff! I listened to whole thing and agree with pretty much all of it. One thing that I think is interesting however is your comment at 1:01:18, within the context of what you were explaining in the couple minutes leading up to this. Obviously yes, the panic tp doesn't really make any sense. As you just explained, you just killed yone, there's a bunch of farm in bot wave, and teleporting to try to desperately save one teammate is not really worth anything, compared to the gold, xp, and map pressure that you could be gaining in bot lane. However, I do think there is one thing that high elo players and coaches don't recognize, which is that because there's an expectation for all the players at high elo to play the way you're describing, most of the time, the more consistent way to win the game is to stick to that script and earn gold in the ways that are consistent. But as you admitted at this timestamp, xerath's team was in a position to win the game off this random skirmish in baron river due to their gold lead and because xerath is not competing against players who are playing to the high elo script. What happens is that people in low elo get a feedback loop which tells them that their random tp to baron side after killing yone was the correct decision, because it worked out. And it works out often in low elo, but it would rarely happen like this in high elo. But the question is: should you play like a high elo player (macro-wise) in a low elo environment? Arguably yes, because you're trying to learn and emulate the players you want to compete against. But on the other hand, in the low elo mind, it seems like the game feedback is telling players that no, playing high elo macro loses the game in low elo. And I do think there's some merit to that. For example: the champions and strategies that I would use to climb out of bronze/silver are different than what I would do in gold, and that's different than what I would do in plat, and that's different than what I would do in emerald. At each elo, I change my approach a little bit. Panic tp is never part of that strategy, in fact arguably you should continue pushing bot specifically BECAUSE lower elo players don't know how to respond to you crashing that wave very well. But I'm just trying to point out that this recommendation immediately makes sense if we think about it from a challenger context. But from a low elo context, lots of low elo players will know that they absolutely DO lose games because you didn't tp to rescue the fight, because your teammates also don't understand why you're shoving bot wave. Talking about a hypothetical scenario of "if we weren't this far ahead, or we didn't have this much engage" is interesting because it's not the actual scenario. The actual scenario is that the client was that far ahead and they did have that much engage. That scenario probably doesn't happen as often in challenger elo, because of the systematic approach people have to the game that causes them to not drop that far behind and take a random fight. But if you do have those variables, your decision making SHOULD change. How far ahead or behind you are does change which macro decisions are best, and I didn't see this addressed in the video. Sometimes it gives the feeling that high elo and challenger players actually don't understand what macro moves win or lose games at low elo. For example, if you took challenger macro and applied it to a player with silver level mechanics and champion limit understanding, would that be a winning strategy? I think the answer might actually be no.

[@lincolnberbert6820]

So the issue with this is that this is the definition of coin flip. You’re correct in the fact that players do get a positive feedback loop (and arguably a more enjoyable one at that, given that fighting is more “interesting” than farming waves) but if the enemy players play better that play ends up not being worth (and at worst can be game losing). The gold and EXP in the side lane is GUARANTEED, whereas the play near the baron is not. Now there is an argument to be had of risk vs reward, but the truth is, you don’t know why a player is in silver, or gold, or emerald, or any rank. It could be because of their mechanical skill, or because they’re better at macro. So saying “it’s silver i’m gonna fight here” is in all technicality a risky choice and an objectively less decisive one than pushing the side wave. If there was anything i’d want to see him touch on, it’s playing mid game macro from behind, because THATS where the risk vs reward plays tend to become more necessary to take, as you’ll just slowly lose the game if you aren’t taking risks. But if you’re ahead like these clips show, the guaranteed plays will close out the game with no chance of counterplay, whereas the random low elo skirmishes give an opportunity for your opponents to get back into the game.

[@markovchainz8314]

@@lincolnberbert6820 I appreciate your comment. I understand what you're saying, but the "guaranteed" plays are only guaranteed if you assume that your teammates are low variance. However, that's inherently not true, because we are talking about low elo. Basically, we can say that it's lower risk to go sidelane farm, but that statement is not always correct. It is possible for farming sidelane to be the high risk option simply because of the increased randomness of your teammates at lower and lower elos. In other words, the more random your teammates are and the more they don't understand the game and react to the fact that you're in a sidelane, the more likely it is that your teammates will take a fight randomly in another part of the map that you can't contribute to. You being in the sidelane and not being able to contribute to the fight all of a sudden becomes the higher risk option, in terms of risking winning or losing the game. As a player, you have to make an in-game estimate of whether or not each macro decision is high risk or low risk, based on the information that you are getting in the game. This depends on game state, as you correctly mentioned (like whether you are ahead in gold, your team is ahead in gold, and what the specific champs/comps are, what objectives you've taken, etc.). All of those things have to be taken into account. I think that's what people are missing when we talk macro. The more consistent way to play at higher elos is to sidelane farm. But that's because it's less likely for your teammates at those elos to overextend and get into a random fight when they see that you aren't grouped.

[@siddharthravishankar7243]

Quite liked this video. Found it to be more useful and practical than a lot of your other 'educational' videos that focus too much on psychology stuff.

[@bolilod1-h2i]

Learned soooo much thks

[@overthrown4]

Amazing man, coach and content creator! Instant like

[@totolelapino]

Hi ! thank you this is great quality :) I was wondering : You often say "don't overgroup, it doesn't matter if my team dies mid here" and in most cases I agreee But sometimes I feel like it matters because it gives free scaling to champions that are going to be impossible to deal with later with our team comp Si in these cases I find myself in the midgame wanting to bait enemy team into a lot of fights that we have a good chance of winning since i'm fed, in order to accelerate the game. Why is that a bad idea ?

[@garagavia]

Cat are not the sames as are dogs, but still they are able to express that clearly ❤

[@GustavoSales-s8q]

Awesome vid!! Can you make one for assassins?

[@CoachCurtis]

Yep I've got it on the list

[@shadowassasin6964]

really informative coach

[@PecoMid]

woah huge vid nice

[@BlueFireDudester]

i needed this, thanks coach

[@Mesutfan7]

should you only 2 stack waves in sidelane when you can`t walk too deep into the lane in danger of getting ganked ?

[@sceadumor]

My issue is (as an ADC) when the mid or JNG really wants to get a neutral objective but then they back right before it spawns and then spam pings me for giving up the objective because the entire enemy team is there. You can't reasonably expect to contest an object when your so horribly late for it. Or when they really want it and then refuse to prep for it at all and someone is split pushing with minions at our base. People actually pinging for an objective, prepping for an objective, and getting to the objective is absolutely glorious and makes my life as an ADC a hell of a lot easier to position and play when things are set up for us to succeed. People really need to take the steps like you showed in your video if they actually want things to happen, it honestly helps to such a tremendous degree. Also even if people decide not to contest the prep work is also useful, pushed waves, vision control, etc.

[@Antibiose.]

Nice guide, Curtis. Where Panpan?

[@Jerrbear_7]

Do these concepts apply to assassins like ekko since he is a mixture of a mage and assassin champion?

[@Lurchstavo]

10:00 Shoved bot and rotated to mid for drag That wave bot lane just both dying. Is that okay if both teams just lose a wave? Is it worth it to be mid if azir is bot shoving that wave to t2? What about always waiting for azir to push bot. Couldnt he just slow push and make you lose more farm, why is he relentlessly giving you free cs

[@crazzymrbcgaming]

ahhh ping the ward! enjoying the video.

[@TaconIStenen]

Coach, I’m sorry I’m a bit late on this but I got something I’m a bit confused about In game one you say there is no downtime in League as you’re constantly supposed to look what the next objective is, where the next play is. But then in the second game you say it’s cool to chill out and relax and trade waves with the Morde, even though you’re fed. I feel these two statements are contradictory and also that you’re not really supposed to wanna just farm a game out if you have a lead, could you elaborate on this a bit?

[@Qwiinn]

what hes trying to say in game one is that mentally atleast, there is no downtime in league, you should always be focused on what your next intention is where u wanna be, what u wanna play for, etc. In game 2 when hes saying there is downtime he means in a more physical sense in the game, his teams lane assignments are in a bit of a weird state, there is no neutral obj to currently play for, and just generally no plays to be. THIS is "downtime" at least physically within the game, we r just farming valuing our life collecting gold and xp but mentally ofc we are still engaged with the match thinking about what we want to do next aswell as still reading the game state thats actually happening. Hope this helps!

[@letis2madeo995]

At around 36:00 why don't you base and tp with the deathcap spike for drake? Is it cause you think you have enough item advantage that you prefer saving tp?

[@LukeRanson]

Could you have bought a dark seal at 40:35 ?

[@thanthan300]

I lost it at "twerk on their face" lmao 1:00:45

[@caruja5301]

Really stupid question, but how do I make the green line appear on the minmap when I'm pathing there? I swear pinging 'on my way' doesn’t do it for me

[@gallae]

the line doesn't show up for your own pings, but rest assured, it shows for your teammates!

[@YilmazVurucu1903]

Nice video as always coach! Would appreciate it a lot if you did a similar video like this but for assassins.

[@AnkushV2]

can you make a fighter edition? i love to play sylas but especially in diamond elo it always turn out to be a massive fiesta

[@Mactav3]

I’d say it mainly comes down to difference in approaching fights. As a mage you don’t want to unnecessary miss farm by fighting over last hits with your adc. You also aren’t strong/mobile enough to pressure sidewave for 1v1s. And in group fights you want to be in a safe position with vision so you can CC and burst enemies coming to you, hence why you really want to prep for obj fights and have your team there. As a sylas none of those really apply to you. You are quite mobile and can often bullshit your way through 1v1s in side (at least with cdr bruiser build), so you can play like a typical skirmisher pressuring side. You also prefer to enter fights from a flank so you can jump a high value target. Yes, you can get picks front to back with some ults/your E, but I find that to be a bit too risky as enemies can focus you easier. So rather than shoving in a safe way and creating a buffer of vision/teammates in front of you, you probably want to do deeper pushes to draw pressure to you. If enemies come you can kill/kite them, if they don’t, you have opportunities to get free tower or a decent flank. It does require you to snowball so you’re a threat in a side lane tho, else you are mostly stuck hoping for a good teamfight ult in front to back. But again, sylas really doesn’t like front to back, as he wants to dip in and out with his CDs. And again since sylas is a snowball midgame champ, you’re not happy sitting back, collecting farm and scaling for teamfights like control mage.

[@HopeArk]

Does most of these tips work with a mage thats less damage/bursty and more control? Like malz cause it feels like I need to be at every fight when ults up but that could just be a wrong take

[@williamharold1991]

Pretty much all mages should operate with this mentality. Assassins have a different ruleset, but Malz is not different from Xerath here

[@lsd3653]

Does this (partially, at least) apply to adcs?

[@GianFerreyraBouillon]

Does this apply to Twisted Fate as well?

[@Tkt_t]

Assassin edition ?

[@kaylenjoyer]

What if I am the type of player that has a bad early game and a bad mid game? :(

[@bunnyrabbit2851]

i need the same video but for adcs macro 😭

[@coach_pr0d1gy]

What are lolstates?

[@RyanXtheDude]

Hes talking about Lull states. The time in between things that need your focus such as farming, trading, fighting. Lull states are usually recalls, death timers, walking back to lane, or waiting for minion waves. Use these timers to calibrate the state of the game (next obj, whos strong, etc.) and what your next move is gonna be.

[@coach_pr0d1gy]

@@RyanXtheDude appreciate your answer! Very well explained

[@Adsterr]

i`m a big fan of CS, so 201 cs at 21 mins is boss at masters, im not even plat or gold yet.

[@AccordZeroGG]

legaue is so complicated bro holy jesus

[@criticalrevel]

a couple of butts here: first is 1. u guys always at the bbc and in your content talk about the "details", the BUTT, is i feel like the whole process of mid teamfight is always left unanswered, there are always general ideas like front to back. being at the objectives. and it's a huge butt cause, that's what mages are supposed to be good at (generalizing a lot), scaling and teamfighting front to back (control and choke points). but it's NEVER detailed answered a. how to get to a point b. what to look for c. what to watch out for what happens when the enemy assasin is fed, what happens when i am behind, what happens when the enemy adc is really fed but we are also fed, what happens when i am the win con but i dont get peel. its discouraging really. 2. sacking waves for tfs (which mages are again generally speaking good at) shouldn't we if ahead try to take advantage of low elo in that regard? instead of "securing" the gold and xp from the side lane where we aren't good as a mage, and if we push too far we are in a dangerous position and what ends up happening is me looking at the mini map while a bleed out and watch my team slowly lose the game...

[@Mactav3]

Most mages have high burst aoe damage/CC. So you really want to fight in a way to hit those spells on large number of enemies (think those 3-4 man syndra Es etc). The easiest way to achieve that is to fight around chokepoints near objectives, so enemies have to bunch up to get close. This is why the prep and setting up for an obj fight is so important as a mage, since it creates precisely those situations. Also, you are not adc that needs to constantly hit someone, you can dip in and out around max range cycling your abilities, waiting for a priority target to step up or enemies to clump up. Also keep in mind that as a burst mage, you’re unlikely to be able to have enough sustained damage to kill their whole team. So your job can often be to simply do enough aoe CC/damage to right targets for your adc to clean up. If your are behind that’s often likely the role you take - sort of a high damage 2nd support. Dealing with assassins really comes down to again positioning and vision. If you see them coming and they don’t have an easy flank on you, it’s much easier to zone/space them. I find they often get desperate trying to flash in and quickly do a play, often too soon or late, so you +teammates can burst them. If they catch you out in a shit position away from teammates it’s basically up to your skill if you can CC/kill them fast enough, but keep in mind they have advantage in that situation. Dealing with fed adcs and lack of peel can be frustrating as a mage, since your are not really built to get picks. Best hope for enemy adc to misposition for you to cc+burst them, but that’s really more on them making a mistake. That or hope your assassin/diver will do their job.

[@shinamonti2021]

Why do you look so depressed on recent covers

[@williammeincke9071]

lol i think it gives more click with emotional expressive look

[@Waelly17]

Yea it seems like thumbnail meta

[@jlbacktous9285]

second 0:20: "we have a classic scenario here....". Classic? My botlane is not 0 12 min 14?

[@ChampDietingAndFitness]

The best piece of advice anyone could ever give you is to remember your team is stupid af. They are useless. Just go into a sidelane and force lesser beings to challenge you. Take everything yourself. The more you play around your idiot team the more you will lose. Trust me.

[@the_armada5579]

You are just wrong on many points. Firstly, dont confuse players about complicated lane things. If you want a guarentee win, just pick your fav mage that can start killing a whole wave in one ability by level 5, then just kill eave, walk bot, get your free double kill. Rinse repeat. If your laning against a mele champ, congrats they wont hit level 2 until you kake your first roam, if its range, just dont stand still auto attacking minions while they attack you, and either just kill them if they walk anywhere near you or just wait till 5 then gank. Rinse repeat past level 5, youll get both dragon and grub prio, and later on if your team comes to help you can kill baron in ~5 seconds so just take it quick and end the game

[@MakashiOwns]

This does in fact work in Bronze and Draft.