The Unseen Achievement of Honda's Oval Piston Engine - A different perspective on the Honda NR story

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Which shape is the best shape for sealing something? And it doesn't matter what you're sealing; water, air, combustion, coolant, oil.
The answer is: a circle. Why? Because it's the simplest and most uniform shape of all. Wherever sealing is important chances are very high that you will find a circular shape. So here's another question for you: if I know that a circle is best for sealing than Honda's engineers certainly know it too. So why did Honda invest an absolutely incredible amount of time, money and human resources into trying to reinvent the wheel by developing an oval piston engine? To properly answer that question we need to process a cocktail of history, mechanics and human persistence.
The year is 1960 and Honda has started a very ambitious campaign to dominate the world of motorcycle racing. They soon started winning races left and right with their motorcycles equipped with four stroke engines. But by the mid-sixties most manufacturers and racing teams jumped on the band-wagon of switching to two stroke engines for their racing efforts.
But despite the two stroke trend Honda remained faithful to four stroke engines. Founder Soichiro Honda is famous for disliking two strokes engines, a sentiment he spread throughout the company. But Honda did more than remained faithful to four strokes, they kept trailblazing and pushing forward in the field and by 1966 they did what no other manufacturer managed to do before, and that is to score podiums in every of the five different classes. The RC166 perhaps best exemplifies how far Honda managed to push the four stroke. Inline six, four cams, 24 valves all miniaturized to 250cc in an age before CAD and CNC.
So in 1966 Honda proved their point. Their four stroke engines featured clockwork precision, they were amazing and perhaps most importantly, they could outperform two stroke engines. So with nothing left to prove in 1967 Honda decided to retire from motorcycle grand prix racing and instead focus on the development of mass-produced cars. Instead of chasing power and speed Honda started chasing economy and environmental responsibility. In 1973 Honda introduced the CVCC-equipped Civic model, becoming the first carmaker to offer a model in full compliance with the U.S. Clean Air Act passed by the U.S. Congress.
But soon Honda would see that without racing there is no drive to create new and competitive technology to beat the competition. Without racing there is no suitable environment where you can test and prove these new technologies. By 1977 Honda had realized they would end up lagging behind other manufacturers in terms of technology and innovation, so they announced their return to the World Motorcycle Grand Prix.
But during Honda's absence, things had changed . Two stroke engines were now the norm in grand prix racing. Four strokes simply couldn't keep up anymore. Despite obvious advantages of the two stroke Honda decided to once again remain faithful to their four strokes and try to beat the competition on an uneven playing field right after coming out of a decade long hibernation.
So they quickly started putting together a large team of staff which was to work on the NR project. NR being „new racing“.
The team figured out that beating a two stroke with a four stroke of equal displacement meant that the four stroke needed to rev twice as high. Now to rev to ridiculous rpm you need to make it possible for the engine to take in and push out massive amounts of air very very quickly. But fortunately for Honda the world motorcycle grand prix rule book only said 500cc and 4 cylinders without explicitly defining what they meant by „cylinder“.
But Honda was crazy enough to pursue a non-cylindrical cylinder. So they came up with this: if the cylinder was oval instead of round than you could fit more valves into it and sustain the airflow needed to generate 23.000 rpm.
Of course an oval piston with an oval cylinder was something no one ever attempted before and thus Honda found itself in completely uncharted territory. Chasing the dream of a V4 with 4 oval pistons and 32 valves all packed into only 500cc.
"When I look back at it, I'm not sure if we were experimenting with cutting-edge technologies or obsessed with foolish ideas," are the words Toshimitsu Yoshimura, an engineer involved in the development of the NR500 oval piston engine.
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#d4a #ovalpiston #nr750
00:00 Why reinvent the wheel?
02:53 Pushing the four stroke further
08:55 Making the impossible possible
13:11 The limit of persistence
15:53 Failure is not the opposite of success

[@d4a]

Patreon: www.patreon.com/d4a Support d4a: driving-4-answers-shop.fourthwall.com/ Versatile: amzn.to/3OpMSRU

[@kalmmonke5037]

see aptera owners club video on saftey, heavy cars make it less safe for lighter cars but heavier doesnt totally mean safer, and join the disc ord server in the description box under the video, my name there is animate mental terrorism

[@shekharmoona544]

Do Britton motorcycles next.

[@stewart8127]

You can increase bore and not raise displacement by reducing stroke. Proof of Honda doing this in reverse is the difference in The SC 57 Vs SC 59 CBR 1000rr.

[@playerofgames7916]

Why don't they make the valves in a oval chape?

[@C64SX]

I've always liked companies that dare to experiment. And Soichiro Honda is a legend.

[@BlueRice]

me too. just like when google first emerge, they do things differently. they made a lot of freebies for internet user. they were trying to experiment with a lot of internet things. i remember we talk a while back saying, eventually you see big companies go to space once they have the capital to do so. i remember saying, honda is one of them as they are a very stable company and they do a lot of research and development of new tech just like asimo. now you have blue orgin and space X. elon musk, is experimenting with a lot of things like solar panel, underground tunnel and space. Honda need to step up their research and development for space. they have the precision to manufacture things reliable. honda pefected Vtec. they didnt invent it they brought it and make it work. they were the first to make luxury car in north america but it fail. toyota knew how to make a real luxury interior and it was a success. honda tried to keep cost down when it comes to interior thats the reason why their luxury brand didnt win. most of their line up all shared components. look at the new NSX. it wasnt really exclusive to nsx. the entertainment is the same like others. although, nsx made other car model appealing but it will just make nsx not win in profit. that goes for luxury model.

[@jeffhaft7378]

100%

[@lookronjon]

Stock holders don’t like it. They want to not lose money.

[@ognianeeh5684]

When he was a child, he seemed to lick oil and compare the taste.

[@one_up907]

Amen

[@Teredifa]

Don't say its boring, I have watched so many of your videos since I found your channel and they are some of the best on you tube. Respect to the amount of work, knowledge and research that goes into them because you are definitely one of the best teachers on the web.

[@d4a]

Thank you so much

[@sebastiend.5335]

It's everything BUT boring! Greetings from the Netherlands

[@arturdimeny7015]

Yeah, I agree, nothing boring here, your videos are verrrrrry accurate, easy to understand and entertaining at the same time, thanks for your work!!

[@stephensu4371]

i have too respect Honda’s imagination, could you please talk about 2 stroke direct injection engine and opposed piston engine please?

[@ElSe1904]

What is so interesting about the 2 stroke DI engine? Opposed piston sounds interesting but the 2 stroke...not so much

[@farukgulluce8601]

@@ElSe1904 opposed engines works in two stroke principal

[@ElSe1904]

@@farukgulluce8601 He asked for explanation of 2 stroke AND opposed piston engines... Thats why i pointed it out

[@duckdestroyer2412]

@@ElSe1904 low emissions, way better fuel economy, and way more horsepower. Snowmobiles uses them all the time and with only a 850cc inline twin they can make 165 horsepower naturally aspirated, some manufacturers are now using turbos and upping it to 180, but that number stays that high all the way up to 8000 feet (used for mountain riding.) Where it takes a 900+cc four stroke inline 3 with a turbo to make even competitive horsepower at 180. And weighs even more for only 15 more horsepower than the NA two stroke, plus ends up burning more fuel than the two stroke anyway.

[@Xsidon]

@@ElSe1904 becouse di 2 stroke baisically makes scavenging and exhaust pressure calculation redundant i'd imagine therefore opening up new potential for said firing cycle.

[@omi1468]

I graduated this year. There were 4 of us in project group. As our last year project we decided to fabricate a self-balancing mono-wheeler which tries to balance itself with help of a heavy mechanical gyroscope. For the reason of low budget we fabricated the whole chassis out of scrap and the gyroscope by stacking up heavy metal flanges to one single metal plate. Manufactured whichever part is required on Lathe machine. Despite there being advanced electronically self balanced mono-wheelers available in market already, we tried to reinvent the wheel like Honda did back then, just because we thought we would get to explore more about Physics. Neither of us had any experience of building an automobile whatsoever. Dealt with various difficulties like mitigating tremendous vibrations generated by flywheel at high RPM, improper alignments of parts because of not having access to precise machining and equipments, etc. After facing a lot of problems we fabricated it successfully but by doing so we left with very low time for it's testing. We ran out of time and the project got failed. We implemented free precession of gyroscope for this to accomplish and I do have an intuition that if forced precession method is used then perhaps this might become successful. Anyways, even though this wasn't a success I learnt very intricate topics of Mechanical engineering, learnt how to come up with tactical solutions under time trouble which I think will definitely help me out in the future. And most importantly I learnt your saying that "Failure is not opposite of success, if we learn from our mistakes" because I believe that maniacal things like these give birth to creativity.

[@jasongelgand9001]

You LEARNED a lot.

[@raynic1173]

And you would perfect working on NASA contracts, as they seem to, ah, always, go over time and budget, he-he.

[@touristguy87]

@@raynic1173 yeah with engineers who graduate near the top of their class. Dunce.

[@raynic1173]

@@touristguy87 Ah, I worked on NASA contracts with NASA engineers, so dunce what? Please explain?

[@touristguy87]

@@raynic1173 you're not even unpaid intern material...maybe a tech for a 2nd level contractor

[@spandanbhattacharjee8349]

Soichiro san was incredibly crazy enthusiast who went beyond share price and market shit and focussed on perfecting motorcycle tech. They don't make them like this any more

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

A circle also has the smallest area of contact vs the total area to seal off.

[@MaxHohenstaufen]

And it is homogenous, whereas angled shapes have points of stress peak, which is problematic if we're talking about sealing preassure.

[@22masz]

@@MaxHohenstaufen the area of a cilinder is basicly like a flat surface where you only heave one constraint on flatness, with the other 3 dimensional figures you basicly stack multiple flat surface together wich when machined might not have the exact dimensions per surface. single measurement of prescision beats mutliple measurements of precision

[@TheRealCheckmate]

I remember briefly reading about those oval pistons years ago, but couldn't get past "Why in hell?". Now I see why they were trying such a weird concept, and I have to give them credit for thinking completely outside the box... especially before we had the CNC machining technology we do today. The fact that they were able to pull it off at all is quite an accomplishment.

[@sntslilhlpr6601]

Yep, gotta love engineers trying their damndest to bend the regulations in order to get an edge on the competition. Would've been cool if they could get it to work but the odds were against them.

[@thedude6712]

TBH, I have the same reaction when I see what all of the automakers did when creating hybrids. They intentionally over-complicated them, and took the worst mechanical bits of both EV and ICE vehicles, by building them effectively as a dual-engined vehicle with the inherent mechanical transmission issues that that entails, rather than basing them on, and making them operate similarly to, the extremely-proven design that powers the overwhelming majority of locomotives. In other words, the vehicle should be driven by electric motors, with the engine just existing as a generator providing electricity to power the motors. For cars, it would really just be recharging the batteries that drive the motors as needed, whereas in locomotives the diesel engine more-directly provides the electricity to the drive motors which move the train. This would give you the mechanical simplicity of a vehicle that requires no transmission (for a 4-motor car), along with the unlimited range of an ICE vehicle.

[@suprlite]

CNC is older than you might think.

[@TheRealCheckmate]

@@suprlite *So am I.*

[@davelowets]

CNC was the LEAST of their worries when it came to this engine.... 😕

[@fuzzyspeedo3652]

Love the video! One other thing the NR500 had was a needle bearing crankshaft to help lower power loss at high rpm. The NR750 had plain bearings as they’re much cheaper, more reliable and there was less of a need for needle bearings due to the lower redline of ‘only’ 14,000 rpm haha. If you ever go to Japan you can see both crankshafts for each engine on display in Honda’s museum.

[@motominded5275]

I've wondered about plain vs needle. KTM switched from needle to plain bearings on their 4 stroke MX bikes sometime around 2012/2013. Their time between overhaul increased (per KTM spec), but in practice, both are exceptionally reliable. There must be other reasons for needle bearings other than high RPM? The KTM 500s for instance max at around 10k.

[@howardosborne8647]

@@motominded5275 A roller bearing big end is generally lighter than a 2 piece bolted together split cap conrod and shells. The roller assembly also does not require a pressure fed pumped lube system

[@motominded5275]

@@howardosborne8647 thanks.....so maybe roller bearings are more immune to poor oiling systems / failures?

[@villiamo3861]

@@motominded5275 Absolutely. Kevin Cameron (CycleWorld)is very good on this. Roller bearings can survive on very little oil, whereas plain bearings will bind etc when air is supplied instead of oil; but the other side is that with well supplied oil, plain bearings last much longer under higher loads etc. And this is largely why you'll see motorbikes nowadays with plain bearings and deep sumps with a very deep collector going into them so that the engine still supplies lots of oil at persistently high lean angles.

[@motominded5275]

@@villiamo3861 Thanks - so maybe the rollers are a hold-over "old world" tech when oiling systems were not what they are today. I've been curious about that. With KTM's switch ~10 years ago they upped the service intervals from sub 100 hrs to upwards of 150, I guess they are confident over the years of fine tuning the oil systems on the bikes....

[@wjnielsen]

Glad to see your videos back after a few months off. I really love your stuff. Very thoughtful. You explain things really well for me. Thanks for all your work to make these videos for the gear head community. 🙂

[@d4a]

There was only one week without a video 😧

[@tayvonrose2528]

@@d4a felt like longer 🤣

[@wjnielsen]

@@d4a A week without a d4a video is clearly like 3 months for lesser KZbinrs. ;-) I can say that the channel on my Apple TV hasn't been updated for much more than a week. Likely some sort of setting on my side. Now I get to go find all the goodies I missed.

[@stevesedgwick5789]

You’ve said it all, I’ve nothing to add

[@time.dealer]

Honda's engineering is very underrated imo. They are like the Seiko of the car world. Thank you for the cool video, glad to see you working hard to bring quality content!

[@motorheadbanger950]

Everyone talks German engineering because of the complexity, while Japanese engineering is about simplicity or well something like that

[@rusack7174]

I have never thought Honda's prowess in the engineering field lacking. Those that think so simply don't know much about them. It's nice to see Honda collaborating with another pioneering company (Sony) in bringing more vehicles to market. To me, how cool is that, to see a Sony badge on modern electric vehicles?

[@mr.2minutes161]

​@@rusack7174 their moped bodyworks are notoriously bad here, i could confirm since i got 3 of them, they tend to rattle after a while, even if you fix it they keep coming back like a roach. maybe because its designed by sub company's apprentice engineer, disassembling it feels like peeling a union. they got really good fuel economy though

[@rusack7174]

@@mr.2minutes161 Where's "here" and what model moped are you talking about?

[@mr.2minutes161]

@@rusack7174 they spread around southeast Asia with different name, mine was Honda absolute revo (2010), honda kharisma 125 (2007), honda vario 150 (2019). idk who design them since other sub company in other asian country sold "simillar but not the same" model, but i believe the one i had are produced by Astra Honda Motor which is affiliate? licensor? idk if you could call them sub company since honda own half their share.

[@yiplekhong5111]

I appreciate how much research you did to put up this amazing episode.

[@t.s.racing]

I'm purposely going to be quite vague, but I was with HONDA, during this time, ie late 70 thru 80z. The NR had many " aspects " working against the design, which I won't elaborate on. That being said, what I will discuss is the difficulty in the machining, and final precision Honing of the cylinders. The piston ring dilemma was solved reasonably well, but the cylinder finish, and sizing, not so much. Even with today's C.N.C. capabilities, it's simply not practical and border line, unachievable. The same " theory " can be said for the concept of oval valves. Benefits of the design, absolutely, yet not even remotely practical from a machining, and final outcome standpoint. Excellent job with the video. T.S. RACING

[@seemlesslies]

@Retired Bore companies would rather chase money sadly.

[@seemlesslies]

Actually struggling with the same issues in manufacturing in my job just different. One of the solutions is mass production of a product and then matching sizes based on tolerance variance fit. This only work in high volume though.

[@rayRay-pw6gz]

What amazed me was how they refused to even produce two stoke bikes to race while working on their oval engine. Maybe thinking that the racing group was there to support the production group. The Kawasaki two stroke street bikes were animals.

[@seemlesslies]

@Retired Bore it's why Honda got out of F1 racing is a waste of time and money for companies 9/10 times. It is purely just marketing. And more and more people are realizing that and marketing budgets are kind of just a waste in a lot of situations. Not to say these racing companies don't produce some spin off but it's rarely seen in production quickly these are usually technologies that don't get implemented till decades later.

[@KarlBunker]

As an engineer (I presume), you know that there are ways of doing things that are simply wrong. Putting a space between a quotation mark and the word or sentence being quoted, for example. Like "this" is right, and like " this " is wrong.

[@kaushikkalita7310]

i cant imagine my life without D4A

[@perecatherine]

I just CANNOT

[@Makex_sweden]

Asking a question right before an advertisment is such a smart move, makes you not skip it

[@Rickd-jh7iw]

You missed the oval piston endurance racer of 88-89. It had a nearly flat torque curve from about 8000-15,000 rpm and was made over 150hp in 750cc endurance trim. It only raced in a couple of races at the end of the season, and still needed development work to win, but it was so much faster than the existing 750 4 strokes that the FIM banned it for the following season. The 500 was a "failure" but Honda figured out how to make it work. The did a ton of development work between 83 and 88 on a 250cc turbo charged oval piston test engine, that led to the 750cc endurance racer engine.

[@villiamo3861]

Yes - this racing 750 is really why the NR750 road bike could come out in the 90s (I actually thought it was 91 that the road bike came out, but may be wrong) - ie the 750 racer in the late 80s maintained interest in the design that had otherwise gone out of view in the early 80s; and I think that the 750 racer ran, and looked very impressive at, Suzuka?

[@bradr539]

Yes, Suzuka..i thought I was mis remembering the nr750..edit: leman 24, in 87 and it was a rocket. Not suzuka..

[@stevenash4408]

You're the best on KZbin, I wish you could do more installments...I know it's a lot of work but it is truly quality material that is a joy to watch😊

[@cipher2508]

I'm falling deeper and deeper in love with this channel the more motorcycle content it produces

[@grigorsamsa6564]

"Failure is not the opposite of success" is something that applies to everything in life.

[@MRptwrench]

This is probably the best video I've seen on KZbin on Honda's oval cylinder. Great job.

[@davidsellon4580]

I'm not sure there's another channel on KZbin that combines explanations of technical issues with motivational speaking and life lessons.

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

Apparently Soichiro Honda hated 2 strokes so much that he'd have 2 stroke engines run to destruction while he and the board, (or invited guests) stood watching, while laughing and drinking champagne. So the story goes.

[@d4a]

I heard he opened trap doors that would drop two strokes into a crocodile pit.

[@ainulkarim5074]

Quite ironic considering they later made one of the most desired and successful two strokes bikes in the market like the MC28

[@DwightA.]

Mr. Honda and his NR500 with a 20,000 rpm didn't rarely got to the podium . Honda then built the NSR500 two-stroke three cylinder. Freddy Spencer rode it to a GP championship.

[@DwightA.]

The NSR500 was originally to be a V8 but the rules said no. It then became a V4 oval piston motor. They tried very hard to make it work.

[@emekauzo5358]

Wow! This is the very first time I'm understanding deeply the difference between a two-stroke and four-stroke cycle. Thanks

[@xFlow150]

Great video! It shows how much context is sometimes necessary to shine light on the reasons why a company develops a certain product. You're very correct if it comes to failure and learning from it. Unfortunately, it doesn't ease my fear of failure that is underlined during my ongoing graduation as an electric engineer. We all have our hurdles in life, I guess. That's why respect the determination that Honda showed that much more as well as their sass of releasing a limit amount of the bike that carried the engine predicted by everyone to would fail.

[@keithwilliamsWilf]

I don't put too many comments on videos but I did comment on one your previous ones and asked if you would produce something on the Oval Piston engine. Now, I am sure I am not the only one who asked but I knew it would be facinating, your presentation and delivery style has made it even better. Thank you for taking the time to make this and for those who knew nothing or little about this feat of engineering I am sure they now much better educated as indeed I am and remember the engine in its day....every day is a school day

[@frioglobal]

Nice video, it’s refreshing to see someone cover the NR story from a different perspective. As someone who studied in substantial detail the overall story, achievements and failures, I can say that there are way more anecdotes and milestones that are worth sharing. Perhaps at some point I will make a video on this topic too 🙂

[@SmirkyWaters]

Great video as usual, thanks! I was getting worried as you were getting closer to the conclusion that it was a total failure, but breathed a sigh of relief as I got past it. Don't care if it didn't make any sense, just loved that they took on the challenge and loved the NR (road version), it was my dream bike as a teenager. And it was indeed the source of so many groundbreaking innovations---you didn't mention that it was the first bike with a swing arm suspension and the exhaust coming out of the back of the seat, so cool for the time! But guess that's not engine related so you're forgiven 😊

[@halsnyder296]

NONE of your videos are boring! Thank you for your work!

[@christrovellebarredo2316]

16:26 "Failure is not a complete opposite of success" -D4A 2022

[@Xayuap]

wow, that street NR must be the prettiest R ever. it really kept the italian thinking after that.

[@deanfloyd8931]

A few years ago, I met an elderly man who formerly worked for Douglas Aircraft. Honda of Japan approached Douglas Aircraft to build some carbon composite frames, swing arms and wheels for this vary project. All these years later, he never heard any details regarding the parts he built for Honda. As fate would have it, a former employee of mine was heading up American Honda racing. I asked him if there was any way to get some info regarding this project, for my engineering friend. Months later, a package arrived at my place direct from Japan, magazines with full stories about the NR's development. Needless to say I made one old man very happy. We had dinner and he insisted to go to Kinko's to print me copies of his black and white photos of his records of the carbon parts he made all those years ago. Amazing

[@d4a]

What a story!!

[@deanfloyd8931]

@@d4a By the way...$100,000,000 per set.

[@craftsman40]

I've just come from a recent failure in my life, and somehow this video lifts me up.

[@waltwimer2551]

As an engineer (electrical/computer), I absolutely love this story! Thank you for yet another fascinating and captivating video, presented in your always-engaging style!

[@IIHawkGamingII]

Hard not to respect hondas amazing engineering

[@destroyer6470]

I've been anticipating you covering this, i thought it was going to be an iconic engines video like the 6 valve. But this is still very cool!

[@bobmeyer7009]

Thank you for this - it is the best, most comprehensive description I have seen of Honda's oval piston adventure. Excellent!

[@funtdrv]

Absolutely love your videos! Thank you for all of the research and how you present these subjects.

[@52chevy3100]

The oval piston is sort of in the industry world wide. It's widely used in compressors for refrigeration systems.

[@johnhunter7244]

@J M yeah donut is quite inaccurate on some stuff

[@jovantomcic9112]

@@johnhunter7244 donut is an entertainment channel, while d4a is an educational channel, in most cases

[@sntslilhlpr6601]

I mean, maybe he could've mentioned it, but those things aren't self-propelling and don't have to rev to the moon in order to be effective so it's not really an apples to apples comparison.

[@Appletank8]

Do remember that pumps are a lot more flexible about what kind of impeller design they use. Steady state, generally more lax about a little bit of leakage. Wankel rotaries are sometimes used for seatbelt retractors, for example.

[@90FF1]

@@Appletank8 "Wankel rotaries are sometimes used for seatbelt retractors" Can you cite an example application for those of us who live under rocks. Thanks.

[@bigchungusmk6]

I love the feeling of seeing D4A in the subscriptions feed with a new video. Amazing quality!

[@jebremocampo9194]

Came here to learn about engines, now I also learned about life lessons. Good job Mr. KZbin man, keep it up!

[@8180634]

Great history and excellent job finding those videos of the oval piston engine insides!

[@Yukanhayt-Mhenow]

This is the best Engine science technology channel on yt period! Be proud bro you explain things excellent and clear and nowadays that's rear!

[@petdealer666]

WOW, this is as nerdy as it gets. I've come to a point where life almost wouldn't make sense anymore without your videos. Just freakin' amazing...

[@justinremple7986]

Excellent presentation!! Thank you for your time, perseverance and research 🧐

[@rusack7174]

This was the essence of Honda and where legions of Honda faithful worshipped. That pioneering spirit, tempered somewhat from the realities of today, can still be seen today in various products they manufacture. Like myself, those growing up in those early years of Honda the giant killer would like to see more of that.

[@dcxplant]

Honda is one of my favorite companies. Thank you for such a historical perspective in addition to the technical. This was enjoyable to watch.

[@garypeatling7927]

If life was fare only Honda would be building cars, ordinary ones go to scrap yard with all original major components , older type ones not modern c rap

[@roberthertel5565]

I'm not sure which impresses me more, Honda's vision and persistence or the research you did in order to present this video - in any case thank you very much and I have to say your style is excellent and you speak very clearly, looking forward to watching more of your videos and of course I just subscribed.

[@BA-zy2kb]

Great video and thanks for reminding me of those days. In the 80’s I was a big Yamaha fan and loved my 2-stroke RZ 350 and 500 bikes but was amazed at the tenacity (I probably called it something else back then) of Honda to push 4-stroke engineering in the NR. Honda applied different ideas when developing the NS, the production NS400R Grand Prix replica was very different from its competitors (RZ500 and RG500). When the production NR finally came out it looked like a possible sport bike future that of course never came to be.

[@rfwillett2424]

Dad had a saying; 'don't be scared of failure, you learn bugger all from success, it's from your failures you really learn'. It's not a saying I repeat a lot, as it tends to get a lot of blank looks, but it's always one I keep in mind. In my own experience success all to often just ends up reinforcing bad habits.

[@dverhoturov]

Thanks a lot for continuing to create high-quality videos, and kudos to whoever taught you English, as it’s so pleasant to listen to.

[@29madmangaud29]

I love so much how you explain things, it's so easy to understand! Thanks!

[@thomasharmon5527]

Dude not only teaches me everything i know about engines but gives me good life advice while doing it

[@timandrew4515]

That was just incredible! Thanks for the fascinating history lesson 👍👍

[@thepaperboy9009]

Excellent presentation. I remember when that bike first came out. Everyone was scratching their heads wondering what to make of it.

[@scottyaustria]

once again you have made an impressive and informative video - love it! thanks for your good work! 🤘

[@olspanner]

Thanks once again for such an interesting insight to engine design, and clear concise presentation.

[@garrettknox5266]

Very well explained. Thanks!! I remember reading about the project in Cycle World way back in the last century when I was young. I remember explaining it to my father and uncle and they said "why?" ...so I explained why and they said "it'll never work"

[@rafacas]

great video! i've seen other videos about the oval piston engine, but they didnt give that much attention to the company history

[@engineerpauly7480]

Never boring mate 👍👍 Brilliant explanation as always 👌👌

[@PeterR0035]

Interesting, informative, accurate, funny, well made. Thanks for all your research, I appreciate it very much!

[@paullough4946]

I am so impressed with your presentation that I subscribed half of the way through this video. The first of yours that I have seen. Keep up the good work, KID!

[@StephenWhite55]

Bravo - well said! Important history, and very amusing example of 'creative interpretation of the rules', by a truly great engineering company. I remember this whole affair (being really old), and yet I learned something here - I had no idea that the NR750 streetbike had pistons that were actually oval! I always assumed that it had the same flat-sided pistons as the racebike... Thanks!

[@adiseagledostuff]

I was failing multiple times in my programming project, it was extremely painful mentally and I even do self harm just because how disappointed I am towards myself. but after watching this vid knowing what honda did, i can't imagine how much mental pain those engineers felt. they kept going and going even though they still failed to win, he has said a powerful statement to me who's cursed with pessimism and perfectionism. I now realised the most valuable thing is not succeeding but improve, I forgot how much i improved and the fact that i did improved without relying tutorial (what I'm trying to make is extremely uncommon for a tutorial) should be seen as an achievement for me instead of comparing myself with someone else that have vastly more experience and knowledge than me and be absolutely disappointed by it. my mind keep resisting but my body accepting it, so much so i shed a bit of tear at the last section of the vid. feel the pain of progress and keep on moving forward.

[@dgphi]

Failure is definitely part of the the learning process with software development. It is very common for complexity to get out of hand, making the project become impossible, no matter how hard you work at it. After a few failures like that, you start thinking at a strategic level. You start thinking about how you can minimize and manage the complexity right from the start. And that's when you become a good software developer.

[@colinculverwell325]

I was standing on the first corner at Silverstone and remember the day well. The NR had other issues as well, over heating and the chassis in general. They eventually put the engine in a Ron William (Maxton) frame but it still wasn't competitive even in the hands of Freddie Spencer. There were so many issues the NR came to stand for 'nearly ready'. Enter the NS and NSR 500s. Good video.

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

Fantastic video - probably the best I've seen on the subject.

[@leonardfbell]

You make some of the best car guy content ever bro. RESPECT!! Thanks for the great videos

[@errflow]

My favorite engine story of all time. Thanks for telling it so well. Cheers.

[@Sonnell]

I love that you came to the right conclusion at the end!

[@PATRIK67KALLBACK]

Great Video! By the way, the vid about the V5 engine was one of the most interesting you have made!

[@Surestick88]

I want a video on sleeve valves! I feel like a sleeve valve engine for a dirt bike would be a potential winner. Emissions are not an issue for off-road racing use vehicles (see 2T dirt bikes), potential for better breathing than a poppet valve engine, more compact engine, lighter?, potential to rev higher...

[@jozsefizsak]

This is a grand channel, my boy, and that Honda V5 story is interesting in the extreme. This one is too, the way you bring it to life.

[@d4a]

Thank you for your continued support Jozsef. Always happy to spot your name in the comments

[@fredcrayon]

I live near the Barber Motorsports Museum in Alabama and they have an NR750 in their collection. It’s a beautiful machine.

[@seanokeefe703]

Fantastic, that old Honda sounded great

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

Fascinating. Always enjoy your latest uploads. Keep it up.

[@tim0025]

Thanks for this history lesson, very good viewing/listening and of course a good explanation!

[@dennisnegherbon7079]

In 1981 I was working with a group at Sears Point Raceway where we were trying to clad the cylinder wall of the oval pistons with a ceramic material. The idea was to increase the combustion temps for more power while providing better wear characteristics with synthetic oils. Machining was just to difficult at that time, mostly due to the material need to be ground versus other methods because it was so hard.

[@gerry343]

Good video explaining the design of the engine and the lessons Honda learnt through building it.

[@IM2a1]

Excellent video with outstanding closing. Bravo!

[@robertodebeers2551]

And this is exactly why I've invested my millions in the triangular shaped piston.

[@blackhawk7r221]

Popular Mechanics had a big write up about Honda’s oval concept back in the early 80’s.

[@Craftlngo]

Your V5 vs V4 Engine Video is anything than boring! I learned so much from it and all of your other videos

[@mzungusi]

That was amazing, a topic I have next to no knowledge of or even interest in , presented very compellingly. Well done.

[@Farlig69]

Nice vid!! On the topic of traditional design that works, you should do one on telescopic forks vs swingarm / telelever / centre hub etc :)

[@jerkojuric6137]

Great video as always! I would like to add just one more snippet regarding racing history of the oval engine. In the 80s turbo tech was a everywhere in motorsport and in Honda there was an idea to use half of the NR500 engine (V2 250cc) but turbocharged in order to compete in GP500 class. There was even a prototype with 150HP from 250cc V2 with possibility to up the horse power eventually to 170HP. But FIM had other idea regarding the future of GP motorcycles and 4T engine needed to wait another 15 years to enter the races in top GP class.

[@chrishaps6846]

Great video and interestingly presented. Made me feel all motivated !

[@patrickmorrissey2271]

I was around, and had several Honda Sportbikes in my garage, when the 750 NR Oval Piston came out..... And we knew then, what you are telling us now... That it didn't work that great, it was super complicated, and all that.... But I can tell you, we ALL WANTED ONE. Everyone. To this day, when I see them for sale, I am deeply deeply tempted.....

[@rotax636nut5]

This is the best episode of your show that you have done to date, well done and thanks

[@scottfineshriber5051]

It’s a testament to Honda engineers that in 1983 they had a winner two-stroke.

[@bragee]

"Beautiful failure" is possibly the best title you could find. It's spot on.

[@Ramsi-Berlin]

Love your videos so much ❣️ You explain so wonderful and have for all details pictures and animations 👌🏼 Thanks for the best content 🙏🏼 Love from Berlin 🇩🇪 Ramsi 😘

[@802Garage]

Boy do I carry the valuable experiences of many many failures under my belt. ;) Excellent video!

[@bismuth7730]

I really didnt expect to receive a life lesson out of a video like this but im so happy i did.

[@melvinbrumski1446]

Just wanted to say thank you for making such interesting videos and the high quality subtitles. I’m almost completely deaf and don’t have hearing aids, and KZbin’s auto generated subtitles are hot garbage.

[@amarissimus29]

I'd go even further and make failure a necessary precursor to success, rather than just a part. Great video, as usual.

[@zvonimirsic1952]

Ti si kralj. Ne znam vise sta dodati na to. Hvala na zanimljivom videu i temama. Ziv bio.

[@thomasrose6962]

loved the sound of the 6cyl on demo track

[@1050cc]

Amazing, highly informative and highly watchable as always ! I love the relaxed "bed time story" delivery... completely rivetting with huge dollops of automotive history 👌👏👏 The conclusion, the final one, is also a good life lesson whatever we choose to turn our attention to 👌👍🤗

[@josebrown5961]

I remember those Honda F1 bikes. The NR500 was a great idea and if any company could make it work Honda could. I was a Kenny Roberts/Yamaha fan, but Honda just amazed me with stuff like this. They eventually made V4 engines for the streets and I had one. That VF500 was the coolest little bike ever.

[@d.e.b.b5788]

'King Kenny' led a progression of American born Moto GP champions, IIRC followed by Freddie Spenser, Eddie Lawson, Wayne Rainey, and more ( I stopped following Moto GP much after that). At the time, it was rumored that the American's growinig up racing on dirt, was a significant advantage as the leading racers were perfecting sliding the motorcycle tires on pavement. Watching Moto GP back then was an incredibly exciting spectator sport, and it was amazing at how many riders survived what we thought should have been fatal accidents. I rode a Honda all through those years. The CBX and then a couple of Gold Wings brought me around the country many times.

[@Ne1vaan]

God that 250cc's I6's exhaust note. Gorgeous.

[@CarloLeonKolega]

Thank you for life lessons. Great video, good job!