The video all owners should watch, but few want to see. Some can't handle the TRUTH!

Discussion about why Aquarius - AMEL Super Maramu 2000 lost the rig in mild weather conditions. It's a sad story, and you just have to watch the video.
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[@aleksdre]

Zivile, Ken, I would like to thank you for your service for the whole Amel community. I hope people will take notes of what you said and act accordingly and I'm not talking only about the lack of transparency, correct sailing technique, prevention but also the actions of some people acting like a fool during your misfortune. Thank you.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks for the nice comment!

[@passionfounder]

Well done Ken, it’s not about the drop in value it’s about saving life’s!!! Good on you!

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks, you are correct in so many ways!

[@G-ra-ha-m]

If Amel provides a good way to fix this issue, it should not cause a devaluation of the brand. Every company makes mistakes, but what they do next, is deliberate.

[@seanrhone5306]

Like many people, I initially thought the same things. Chainplates, shrouds, or stays, maybe a bulkhead or knees gave out, but I never thought incompetence since you've logged so many miles! I LOVE Amel, have looked at a Sharki, and am currently looking at a Maramu. It disturbs me that the owner association would jump to conclusions and Amel itself would clam up; I expected better!

[@SailingAquarius]

Me too...

[@TheOKellys]

What a fantastically well-told story. Really complicated and nuanced topic, not just technically about the rig, but the real-world implications for other owners and interactions on social media. Just bravo to you on the vid! I think I was about 500 miles NE of you when the rig came down and someone sent me a message on Fb about it (we had SL too). It was a bit rough but settling down at the time and I remember thinking two things: that's a lot of hardward to have banging around in these seas...must be a heck of a job. Second thought was holy cow they have their starlink up? What a game changer. Anyway, fantastic video. Great work. Cheers, Nick

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks Nick, it was a wild time. And, glad I had Z Admiral aboard! Having someone you can trust on board makes all the difference. Starlink, Awesome! But if it was mounted somewhere it might have been worthless. Lessons learned.

[@steveburton5825]

I don't think that the value of Super Maramu's have fallen because of this. It wouldn't stop me from buying one. Keep up the good work and don't let the haters get you down.

[@SailingAquarius]

I got used to the haters, and unfortunately most of the haters are named Bill.

[@jeremyrainman]

Ya, I tend to agree, it wouldn't stop me from buying one. It would make me keep a close eye on the mast if I owned one, and look at ways of strengthening places where poles put forces on the mast. It's like owning a bolt-on-keel. You know it's a weak point, but that doesn't make the boat worthless, it just means you keep a close eye on keel bolts.

[@awex548]

I have been sailing a ASM for 5 years. Wing on wing with a genoa or a spinnaker. No problem. Problem is when you’re lazy or too ambitious and this guy here is just full of himself.

[@karstenbrandt2630]

Ken and Ziville, you show us true seamanship in your handling of a very difficult situation. And lots of courage. The knowledge you have acquired over the last few years was invaluable in the first days after the accident. As you point out, the updated sailing guidelines show that the rig can have a weakness in certain situations. The formulation requiring the use of two poles at the same time does not always occur naturally to all sailors. If the rig type has a weakness that is known to Amel, they should at least be very explicit on their website about the problem and what countermeasures should be used. I'm glad you are who you are!

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks!

[@Moj_Nick_YT]

Dear Zivile and Ken, As a sailor myself, coming from a sailing family, I have long watched your adventures with great interest and eagerly listened to your advice and opinions. I never had any doubts about their sensibility and quality. The tragedy that befell you, the bravery and courage you showed in handling this extremely difficult situation only confirms your vast experience and professionalism. It is also clear to assess the decision to leave, even fight to keep the mast and rigging on deck, which you described. It was the only proof of what happened. I’ll say one thing. I tip my hat to you. And people like Bill Rouse should apologize as earnestly as they defamed and "shined" from behind a screen, while you were fighting for your lives and for Aquarius. It’s easy to defame someone by saying that one could "possibly be wrong." Apologizing should come just as easily...

[@mechweld]

You are a stand up guy. Respect from Australia. Standing on principal is only worth what you stand to loose.

[@migueldoliveiracomposer]

Hat off to you, skipper. Hope the stress from the incident and the revolting libel that followed, is only a distant memory by now. An inspiration to any sailor out there. Liked and subscribed.

[@Slithh]

I just came across this video and will subscribe and follow going forward. I am so sorry to hear of the dismasting of your yacht. This is every sailors nightmare, spoken or unspoken and you are now all the more experienced by living through this "adventure". It sounds like a critical design flaw, and the perfect storm or events that precipitated your dismasting. People always criticize and point fingers to boost their own view of themselves and I would not consider them for even a moment. Clearly there was nothing you should have done or should not have done to prevent this tragic event. I am so glad you are all safe and sound and able to continue your endeavors and goals. You have now successfully experienced what few will experience and you did so with a calm, professional mind. I can't imagine the cost to repair the vessel and the fight with insurance to have them pay for the repairs/replacement. Much respect to you and yours and I look forward to you on the open seas again!

[@mogcanalboats]

Not a sailor by wind but an 80 year old who, having a few mayhems of my own on a 40 foot totally electric powered solar boat, can commiserate. You and the lovely mate SURVIVED..... that is true top of the class and the love of God. I followed, as best I could with my diminished hearing but failed to pick up on whether or not the insurance company paid for part or all of the refit? A superb job you all did along with great video and commentary. Best to all.

[@SailingAquarius]

The insurance video will be out soon.

[@timlamarre8680]

You worked hard on this detailed video. Very well done. As a result of your Echo Pilot video, I did pick one up. Did not realize that mast was deck stepped. Also that major opening in the mast, reducing structural material in that section by at least 40% right at the impact point of the pole seems a vulnerability. Unlikely that the pole would be able to fracture mast in a section that was complete. Reminds me of splitting wood. With a solid piece of incompletely seasoned oak, as a full circle, it is much more resistance to the maul. But once that circle is broken, the following splits are noticeably easier. Thank you for posting.

[@skuffbuzzer]

Wow I am speechless! Please keep us updated once you have further information. Thanks!

[@SailingAquarius]

Sure thing!

[@johnmajewski1065]

I have experienced significantly worse accidents to my boat when it was knocked down on the hard by another boat slipped next to me, this cost 18 months to re totally rebuild her from the top of the mast to the bottom of the keel. Having had this experience gives me a deep appreciation for your integrity in not dumping the mast as lesser mortal suggested. I'm impressed with your hunt for the what happen evidence and found the smoking gun thanks for your effort possibly more mast will now be saved. I hope you go sailing soon. Wishing you happy future navigational experiences, SV Skoiern IV

[@gotamd]

The very specific, relevant changes in the owners manual for the final year or two of production are pretty close to a smoking gun. I don't own a Super Marimu, but if I did, I'd be thankful that you did all this research and presented it. It's likely that almost no owners know of this weakness or the recommended remediation given how late in the production cycle it was announced and that there was no proactive communication to earlier buyers. Honestly, I don't see why this would hurt the value of a Super Marimu. People just need to follow the latest version of the owner's manual and they'll be fine.

[@SailingAquarius]

Would be interesting to get the engineers messages back and forth to the marketing folks at Amel during 2002 to 2004.

[@saylaveenadmearedead]

Watch Mothership sailing....

[@philipstrachan6212]

Just watching this. If it can happen to you in a well-found boat like Aquarius it can happen to anybody. Scary stuff. You did well to get everything lashed down, and the comms working. Thanks for posting.

[@PickledShark]

I’ve always found the idea of a pulling or pushing laterally on an unsupported span of mast to be a bad idea. The mast is under a load of compression. Much like standing on an empty soda can, it only takes a small tap on the side to crush it. Combine that with the fact that aluminum fatigues over time, and you’ve got a recipe for dismasting.

[@simonheath8701]

Really good analogy. You can stand on a soda can if you get on carefully distributing the load. Then get someone to poke it with a stick and it flattens.

[@robertlaird6746]

Glad that you kept the rig aboard. Looks like the rig mostly landed on deck so that made it much easier to retrieve and stow away rather than dumping it in the ocean. Glad that you posted this video. Most people would have abandoned ship. Glad that you stayed aboard and didn't have any injuries. If you had had some injuries than it would have probably been best to abandoned ship. Great video series about this. Thanks for posting. Fair winds and following seas.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks! I appreciate the comment!

[@w8stral]

Those who abandon their boats are the ones who die, not those who stick it out till it literally sinks.

[@SailingAquarius]

The saying goes.... Step up to the raft! Another saying - Boats are usually found abandoned, but still floating with the life rafts missing. But, the life rafts are usually not found.

[@robertlaird6746]

@@SailingAquarius I don't trust the standard inflatable life rafts for that reason. I'm planning on getting a Cyber 48 that has waterproof bulkheads so it won't sink and plan on using my tender which will be a hard tender as a life raft. I'm also planning on having a waterproof cover made that I can install in case I need it that will be kept aboard the tender along with all of the safety supplies. I also plan on staying with the boat as chances are, it won't sink. I'll just tie the painter to the swim ladder or something. Most catamarans have the escape hatches that I don't agree with. If the boat flips over than you have an air chamber that will keep your boat from sinking but once you break that glass than it will sink if there are no waterproof bulkheads. It's supper easy to escape if your boat flips over because of the air pocket and besides, most people under passage sleep in the salon which is right next to the helm where it's easy to get to fresh air.

[@captnkirk6180]

@@SailingAquarius This just happend with SV Theros.

[@BirgitWasser]

I can see what you mean when I look up my mast of our Amel - yes I Think you have a point here and thank you for making the video

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks for noticing that I am not saying that the Amel SM is unsafe. Just that Amel needs to inform us why the change to the User Manual. Cheers

[@redghost6386]

I'm not a sailor. Shit happens but being a good seaman is surely about how you handle the bad times.

[@stevenplancich6449]

You’re the “Man” Captain Ken…Love how you looked after Admiral “Z”

[@SailingAquarius]

Actually, Z Admiral took good care of me. Thanks!

[@murrayisabeth9403]

Wow! You are the man captain Ken! I was horrified to hear that you were advised to cut it away (the fallen mast) under the guise of safety. You are a legend to remain calm and calculated at the time of tragedy to know that keeping everything together was and is so important for you. So again Captain Ken i applaud your calmness whilst being attacked by those that don't want the truth to be known. You're a good man sir.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks for the nice comment!

[@timtrinkaus7072]

I totally agree could not have said it better myself. Ken is a class act and is always doing the right thing!!

[@grahamandgillpatten3987]

Captain Ken, we miss you and Zivile and your vlogs! We really appreciated your vlogs about what happened (and felt for you as it was a horrendous ordeal) as it helps us all expand our knowledge. Hopefully you are enjoying some sailing and will be posting vlogs again soon? Ignore the negative remarks, I'm sure the majority of viewers enjoy your travels. Safe sailing ⛵️ SV Freedom

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks SV Freedom. It hurts that some in the Amel community, especially the Amel cult leaders, would point fingers and attribute blame for the dismasting to this/or/that, before I even reached safe harbor. It's because Bill**2 didn't think that I could get Aquarius back to land, so they started the attacks early. It was sad to see this, and I feel sorry for them!

[@ollie7658]

As a crew member on offshore racing yachts but not with much experience cruising, I have experienced 2 mast failures (over 30 years of offshore racing) and witnessed another one as it happened. I will say that all of these were in heavy seas and one in heavy wind (40 knots +) so a lot of what you mentioned makes very clear logical sense and you have presented your argument well. I would like to say firstly and most importantly I am very glad you both made it to port and were not badly injured, when a mast comes down it can be a moment of many hazards if you find yourself in the wrong spot. I will also admit that from a racing point of view we push the rigging much harder and hold it in higher pressure situations which obviously make my experience different to yours. That said, I would like to kindly comment on a couple of points that I think should be said. I'm not siding with your nay sayers, and this is not intended as anything other than some feedback. You mentioned in your dialogue that you have never had an uncontrolled Gybe on Aquarius. I'm sorry but I think that this is incorrect, regardless of how violent it is or how well you controlled it, having the yacht turn when presented with seas or a wind shift that backs the Genoa is at least by the definitions I was taught, an uncontrolled Gybe. Unfortunately, with a poled Genoa, especially in larger swells or very changeable winds, does happen to any sailor and is one of the reasons any crew on our boat is told never to stop watching the sails and to be ready to react and check the rig if it does happen. Even in flat seas and with little wind the amount of effort that can be put onto the mast and the fittings even in what seems a quiet or gentle sail backing can do significant and unexpected damage. I acknowledge that on a racing yacht you always have someone on watch and that is different on a cruiser especially on long crossings but personally for the few crossings ive done not racing, our crew has opted to not pole the genoa when we are likely to not be able to be on deck and watching all the time, for example at night. All that said the biggest feedback I have for you is this, when the mast fails, especially if you are some distance from help, the first instinct for many is to try and salvage what you can, either to reduce the repair costs, to identify the problem, or for proof of good maintenance to show the insurance company. While I'm sure some of your responses saying "cut it free" would have been to hide potential issues like you mention, the biggest reason to consider to cut the rig free is safety. if the rig has fallen neatly on the deck and has no part in the ocean then you can probably tie it down and breath but let's face it most of the time part or sometimes all of it ends up overboard floating or partly flooding next to the hull. It only takes one wave collecting the broken rig from an unlucky direction and you can have injuries from those who are trying to recover it, or worse still a hole or open crack punched in the side of the hull that cause much bigger issues. Since there is bound to be some people watching your video who will have to at some point deal with such a situation, I think that its important to acknowledge the safest option especially when the rig is mostly or entirely overboard is to cut it free. we keep a pair of bolt cutters in the companion way in easy reach just in case at all times. One of the dismasting's we suffered was offshore in flat conditions where we were caught off balance by a swell from a passing tanker as we were tacking. The boat had a flawed (in our opinion) design with a jointed mast at deck level held together with 4 bolts between the lower mast step beneath the deck through the deck into the actual mast which sheared when the boat bounced on the wake while the rigging was undergoing weight changes due to the tack manoeuvre. We ended up with the entire mast in one piece laying on the flat water next to the boat with the mast step against the hull. the entire mast had been removed and checked less than 3 months before at the start of the racing season as we did every year, and everything had been tested and checked and was in near new condition with most of it being less than 2 seasons old. It saddened us greatly to see the mast, still set sails and all the equipment attached slip away beneath the waters when the last line was cut, both for the remarkably good condition it looked in as well as the knowledge that this was the end of our season as a complete rebuild would take a significant amount of time, but when we made it back to safety and hauled out the hull, we were shocked to find 4 small indents where the broken bolts had already begin to damage the hull, if we had been in rough seas I have no doubt the hull would have been at risk even with how quickly we were able to cut it free. If we had tried to recover it, the hull would have been lost as well and Im very glad we didnt have to wait in the liferaft.

[@SailingAquarius]

Yes, I have backwinded the Genoa, so this could be called an uncontrolled Gybe. But, what I was referring to.... is when the Main Boom comes over and slams into the standing rigging. Chinese Gybe, Uncontrolled Gybe.... This is what Bill was saying I did because I changed the block on the Main traveller car. So, YES, technically speaking I HAVE BACKWINDED THE GENOA and some will call this an Uncontrolled Gybe. I showed it in the video. But, if this is the definition then EVERYONE has done it.

[@RocketSailing]

@@ollie7658 well written. Beyond my english capabillies

[@saylaveenadmearedead]

Opps... such folly is not unusual but I do appreciate the lessons here about double poles being preferred for downwind cruising.​@SailingAquarius

[@saym2756]

@@SailingAquariuschill 😂 he is sharing good info. Your video is great tho

[@seandelaney1700]

As a fellow lifelong racer albeit less offshore. I understand a backwinded genoa is just that, and an uncontrolled gybe would involve the mainsail. It's possible you were taught technically correct, but that's not how most of us use the term. I suppose this is because the former is insignificant so would likely not get mentioned except with the crew and the other extremely dangerous, but fortunately rare. But then we do things very different than cruisers or racers without spinnakers. I suppose if you are losing masts because of poling out genoa's then it is important to know what to call it, "Chinese Gybe" seems to also refer to the mainsail. The main reason why someone would want to salvage all or part of the rig is because the boat needs them to sail. Countless sailors have self rescued by creating a jury rig from salvaged spars. I recently spent time with a couple, their young child and baby who returned from a dismasting crossing the Pacific. The skipper seemed remorseful he had cut it all away, partially I suppose cause he could not self rescue but also because the loss and now the need. Fortunately the Universe provided as she does. But indeed, don't let Jaws take your boat, in that event cut that fish free. All the non high performance fleet rules I know require a tool aboard to jettison the rigging. It must just be heartbreaking to watch that new, probably easily repaired carbon fiber go down, taking sails and your season.

[@Bimmertech4u]

Thank you for this. I'm planing to rebuild an older ketch. I have some 25 years working on the water, but never sailed- unless you count camping for a week from a rented 28' 2 masted open skiff in the Bahamas. I'm trying to learn as much as I can, so the boat I rebuild will be stout enough to handle the open water... The takeaway I got from your experience is that the mast needs to be reinforced where the whisker polls will attach, so in the event I F-up and get the jib to slap hard, the pole won't deform the main mast and bring it down. Hmmmm.... Maybe even rig up some type of spring on the mast end of the poles to reduce the shock from a jib slap. Again, thank you.

[@matthewsalatino6209]

Quite an excellent video, and excellent detective work.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks, this video had to wait for the insurance company to settle.

[@Frank-E]

Thank you for your honesty and shedding light on this. ❤

[@sailingwindrush3700]

great information. as a structural engineer myself, it's pretty obvious that it's a design flaw in the mast where the poles are connected. seems like they could easily reinforce that area of the mast to solve the issue?

[@Steve-cg8ek]

These boats are just like cars and washing machines they are designed to fail after so many uses. In all three cases sometimes they fail sooner than anticipated. But unlike washing machines both boats and cars sometimes kill the operator.

[@timtrinkaus7072]

Great work Ken I’ve been waiting for this video I may never own a sailboat but have found this all super interesting. You have laid out a damn good case with facts to back it up. You will have to keep us posted if anything else comes up. I was very worried about you and Z when this all happened and still can’t believe it happened but starting to make sense now. You did the right thing about keeping the rig I would have done the same! I’m glad Aquarius is back in ship shape and getting more miles under the keel. You two are a class act world circumnavigators now be safe out there!

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks Tim! I hope you get your sailboat, and live your dream. Cheers

[@timtrinkaus7072]

@@SailingAquarius thank you so much love the videos and following your adventures keep them coming!!

[@billhanna5455]

Iv had the misfortune of losing 2 masts , Second one looked like a piece of spaghetti but didn't break , Both times wing & wing but in 25 to 30+ knots . Took me 4 years to get recompense from the rigger as the swage was fitted faulty , 2 months old ? The second one we stopped & took the mast ashore & bent it strait between to tree stumps , Got us home , 50 miles , Just . You both did an amazing job = Now enjoy Well done .

[@SailingAquarius]

I hope this does not happen 2wice to me. Knowing I have new standing rigging, almost new masts, new running rigging, and more knowledge about sailing conditions and configurations for the SM..... I can relax, feel safe, and continue to sail Aquarius. Cheers.

[@Tory-zp3dw]

I’m so glad you both made it through this safe. I’m not a sailor but enjoy watching the sailing videos. What an ordeal.

[@sailinggraceland]

Thank you for being thorough. Respect to you!

[@SailingAquarius]

I appreciate that!

[@JR-ro5kv]

Thanks for taking the time (and effort) to make this video. It’s quite informative. I’ve been on boat that’s lost it mast, in our case it broke above the lower spreaders after hydraulic back stay adjuster failed. With five strong 20/30 something’s onboard it was extremely difficult to safely secure the mast and rigging in daylight. People suggesting to get rid of the rigging probably have no idea how difficult and dangerous that would be for a couple of people to do. Looking forward to your next video

[@FrankEhrsam]

Thanks for your honest an courageous video. First of all I think of your ordeal as a proof of outstanding seamanship wrapping her safe again. Keeping all the evidence is proof of an (today at least) remarkably rare grade of ownership of your skippering.That said I think it is easy "to know" instead of "to ask". Being a lawyer I seem it quite ridiculous to even think about forcing an owner into a certain sail-set. A sturdy, oceangoing vessel is supposed to offer the greatest variety of sailing plans since mother nature rarely listens to manuals. Keep your spirits up. I find your way to handle things inspiring. All the best out of Hamburg Germany!

[@ozwrangler.c]

Thank you for trying to understand what happened Not the ‘easy’ way, for sure! What you learn may help other sailors 👍

[@GuinchoWindFactory]

You Guys rock, great recovery from a very complicated situation.

[@zeilgenot]

Hey you guys, thank you very much for your video trying to explain and prove what really happend. MUCH ApPRECIATED !!! Also, there are at least some people that should apologize for earlier comments without having any detail on the facts. SHAME ON YOU GUYS!!! And for the future: enjoy the ‘new’ rig and I wish you many safe and beautiful miles o/b the Amel! Cheers!!! 🍺 Harry

[@MultiBmorgan]

Wow! A lesson in integrity and wealth. Seemingly Amel was unwilling to admit their error and will run from it until they no longer have legs to run. With DELOS sold, I now hold a different opinion of AMEL and I can see why your quest to uncover/expose the truth would absolutely draw unfounded criticism and grounded fear from other AMEL owners. I for one would want to know if something was wrong with my boat . Thank you for not giving up or IN.

[@SailingAquarius]

How are you related to Delos? Thanks for the Comment!

[@sailingallon7470]

Thanks to Delos, Amel SM gained popularity among potential buyers of safe and reliable bluewater cruisers. Your channel with your extensive mechanical and electrical engineering skilset make potential future buyers confident how to maintain SM in top condition. Now Delos is gone (they are building aluminium cat) and you so diligently and honestly explained what happened. It’s very disappointing Amel did’t reach out to all owners of SM with this safety impotant change of manual-I’d expect this type of behaviour from manufacturers of commercial boats but not from Amel.

[@donaldvanvliet9039]

Amel never needed delos dude…they were well established before brian bought delos and the super maramu was considered to be the benchmark for a luxury cruising ketch already in the nineties…pretty sure they don’t really care too much about youtube sailing channels (or they are too proud and/or french to admit it😂). (Sorry ken, i’m not saying it’s not an important video…)

[@StemtoSternSailing]

This is important. Thanks for being the nail that stands proud. I will recommend this video to anyone I think should watch it. Fair winds, and let's hope you will have sails to utilise it with. Best regards from Jarle

[@GregCantori]

Our Freedom schooner has two freestanding masts and I've always hoped if one ever goes there's no standing rigging to cut and they are independent of each other giving me more chance of one getting us home. - No poles and we use boom brakes to reduce stress on booms if there's an accidental gybe.

[@adiltair7162]

There are too many counter productive professors in Sailing world same as Universities 😃 you are the captain you got balls to sail around the world you know you Yacht and you understood the facts behind this dismasting, the waves worked against you not the wind but anyway there must be something your are the only one to assess based on your experience keep going don’t get discouraged by the haters

[@SVTIMBER]

Thank you for your brave honesty not easy to put it all out there for the world to see, wish companies would just be honest to there customers, considering the safety and possible danger to life you would think AMEL would be all over getting the word out it seems pretty clear they know there is a serious issue that under the right circumstances this can happen. I’m very glad you 2 did not get injured or worse. Rigs come down just happens for a number of reasons but this smells like a design issue no company is perfect but be nice if they would come clean take care of this for there AMEL customers seems like the right thing to do.

[@MW-il4sn]

Thank you for sharing! Lots of great info even for non Amel owners.

[@SailingAquarius]

My pleasure... But please don't think that I believe the Amel Super Maramu is unsafe. I don't! Just like I don't believe the 737Max unsafe. I believe the builders have a responsibility to be more honest when there is an error in the User Manual.

[@MW-il4sn]

@@SailingAquarius not at all. We’ve just started using a pole on our Beneteau and you provided a great analysis of risks we hadn’t considered. Our pole runs on a track and I wonder if the fittings would shear before distorting the mast? I also wonder about under sizing the boom down hauls so they would fail as a fuse? Anyway, I greatly appreciate the thought you put into this video, there’s lots to think about. Thanks again!

[@SailingAquarius]

I'll give you one more suggestion..... If you're a cruiser.... Get the stretcheous lines you can for your Genoa sheets and the sheets for your downwind sails.

[@MW-il4sn]

@@SailingAquarius thanks!

[@sebastianreitzofficial]

Great video, the editing, the music and especially the end, you cant handle the truth, legendary🤙

[@SailingAquarius]

Thank you 🙌

[@JoshuavanEijndhoven]

Really superb save of the vessel at sea, keeping the evidence and excellent research. Love the reference to aviation, as investigating mishaps is the only way to learn and save lives. Also: unbelievable what boatbuilders get away with. Thanks for the video.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thank you! I hear some of the Zatara crew are down your way, they are pretty cool and you you met up with them! Cheers

[@JoshuavanEijndhoven]

@@SailingAquarius We have finished our circumnavigation and are now living in Netherlands🙂Next circumnav

[@evinwhiteson4902]

Good to know. Truth is I am no longer looking at amels since I flipped to aluminum designers for my forever boat

[@lolonav]

Good attitude 👏 sure Amel learn as well and still is one of the best boat you can get

[@sailorjim7115]

Well done captain, much respect.

[@E12_Sterling]

The most likely reason for the mast shearing off at the base is due to a) insufficient scantlings. Look at the section inertia, yield strength and loads. FEA analysis could reveal the mechanics of the failure. B) a mast is a huge aluminium extrusion. Controlling the process is hard and could introduce defects in the grain structure of the alloy. However since there has been so many dismastings it’s unlikely that extrusion defect is the root cause of the problem. Additionally, restricting the mast at the top doesn’t allow the mast to twist along its length to reduce torsional loads… FEA analysis is the key…

[@micheldawes1]

@E12_Sterling; I do not have all of the facts or all of the anecdotal evidence and I am basing my opinion on one video and I am not a structural engineer, but from the evidence presented in the video, in my opinion, it is possible there may be a structural weakness in the section, at the point of failure. At the point of failure, the section is only a partial section, as evidenced in the video @3:23. As mentioned, I am not a structural engineer, but a partial section that is subjected to a sudden compression load (i.e. the back-winding of the Genoa - and subsequent 'Popping' as the Genoa reverts to its' normal state (caused by the roll inertia of the yacht, caused by the larger swell (PRESUMABLY) striking the hull from a different angle...?), would, I believe, contribute to further weakening of the rigs' integrity). I would welcome a structural engineers' input as to whether I am right, or wrong! Alas, it is all in the hands of the insurers now and hopefully doesn't descend into a legal dispute. All will hopefully be revealed in the fullness of time. I truly believe that Amel designs are generally over-engineered, well founded, seaworthy vessels that are extremely well-regarded, globally, as evidenced by the over 1000 units sold over a twenty-odd year period! I also believe that it was a very unfortunate set of environmental conditions that was the main contributor to the dis-masting (A reducing of wind-speed, combined with a left-over, confused, boisterous sea-state. I believe that wind and sea can both be your allies, but both can also be your adversaries!

[@winstoncat6785]

If there is a major designed weakness due to overall geometry of the mast + rigging, FEA will show you it unambiguously. If it is a marginal problem, it will not be clearly identifiable by a numerical model. It will remain an interpretation of results with some uncertainty. Given the rarity of these events, the latter case is most likely.

[@greghorne8678]

I knew there was a reason I hate being wing on wing in a swell. Here’s a thought: The poles are too strong. They should buckle before the mast.

[@markus717]

What a great point! Why are they so fxxxing strong & heavy? So they don't fail. Great! (Sarcasm)

[@tobyhague5974]

The pole is working compression and the mast is working deflection, unless you can change physics the pole will always be stronger.

[@greghorne8678]

You are assuming equal properties for the two spars. What I’m saying is that the scantlings of the pole should be reduced so that it buckles before the tensile capacity of the mast is overcome. I can assure you that after much rigorous testing it is a proven fact that my mast is stronger in tension than various boat hooks are in compression.

[@vasiliyshumin2212]

SuperMaramu is one of my wishes in a ‘bigger boat’ part. Your experience here is highly valuable and I still in love with this boat, but now I am scared to butterfly on any boat ;)

[@SailingAquarius]

I think SM is one of the best boats to circumnavigate the globe. Amel 54 might be slightly better, but debatable. Just don't pole out on the crossings unless it's flat and low wind. I would still buy Aquarius all over again!

[@hiddebekaan2396]

Thanks Ken, for all the information. It helps even with other boats. Masts seem to collapse typically somewhere halfway between Deck and lower Spreaders. Forces of the Mainsail accumulating at the gooseneck which more than once is of questionable design; spinaker boom and whatever else is tied on can simply be more than a mast can take. Add corrosion where Aluminium and stainless steel meet and such like. Thanks and greetings from Dar es salaam.

[@SailingAquarius]

We did enjoy DAR! Thanks for the comment.

[@philippedaudi1056]

Excellent explanation. Thank you

[@SailingAquarius]

I hope this video helps. It does seem that the Amel Suppliers Forum has started to point fingers. But, they don't want to touch on the important questions... Why the change in the User Guide in 2005? Why the previous owners not informed? Why does so many Amel owners not following the Imperative requirement to not sail with one pole.... "Look here, there is nothing to see over there!"

[@geniexmay562]

Thank You for posting this vid. Education and analysis that improves safety at sea 👍

[@SailingAquarius]

That is the goal! But some seem to want to resist the discussion. The questions remain the same. Why did Amel change the User Guide so Drastically, using the word "Imperatively" in 2004? Why did Amel not inform the previous buyers? And why did Bill Rouse sail 1000's of miles not following Amel's explicit directions not to use one pole? These questions need to be answered before we can sail with the poles safely. Saying that Aquarius was dismasted do to the Fore Guy is just is BS.... LOOK OVER HERE.... THERE IS NOTHING OVER THERE!

[@rexanddonnaboyd]

Good on you for saving the evidence! The fact remains that ALL companies, even those that make great products, are reluctant to admit errors in this litigious world. Congratulations on your circumnavigation.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks

[@SailingSarah]

You handled the people just like I would have. People can kick rocks. That's why I sail is to get away from people. 😒

[@Antipodean33]

I think all becomes clear when they halt production of the SM in 2005 and begin production of the 54 with the stated "single pole attached at the BOTTOM OF THE MAST" Carbon reinforced mast starting 5 feet off the deck to about 20 feet up the mast. To me thats a very telling new way of approaching this set up and it's hard to not think that Amel thought that their original set up was not good, they may even be admitting the dismastings were caused by their original pole set up and the original advice about set up

[@SailingAquarius]

Seems that Amel knew something in 2004 when they made the change to the User Manual, that detail has not be reviled yet. We need this information to be safe on the sea.

[@bobcornford3637]

The weakness by having two holes near the area of greatest stress is problematic. Microscopic examination of the fracture will tell you the cause - you may already have done it. For me I'd say stress reversals concentrated at the point of maximum bending moment. Very good video, maybe a sequel about your findings?

[@rolandstockham1905]

Thank's for all the effort to find out what really happened, it helps everyone in the sailing community not just those on Amels. Did you find a solution? Should everyone with whisker poles mounted on the side of the mast be looking to reinforce the mast in this area to prevent the tube buckling under compression? Maybe the fix is simply to go back to the traditional arrangement of mounting poles on a track on the front of the mast so compression is on the strong axis?

[@yvonnekneeshaw2784]

Well done Ken & Zivile

[@SailingAquarius]

Tanks.

[@stevefox6864]

You make a good detective.. 😊 evidently a common problem.. happy sailing .. Steve

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks 👍

[@normanboyes4983]

Well done for your integrity and honest throughout. If Amel was a company with any ethics they would have flown out a couple of engineers (familiar with masts) to your location to examine the evidence. Very disappointing that some in the Amel community have been rather less than supportive. Excellent video.😀👍

[@SailingAquarius]

They have already inspected boats that had the same thing happen. Amel needs to say exactly why the 2004 change in the User Manual was made. This should be easy, but there might be liability. But since the boats involved are all over 19 years old, I don't think there should be any liability.

[@stevebrunning3432]

Great video, don’t give up, push and keep pushing, they should have done the right thing….. It’s amazing how they put money and profits over safety. Scary.

[@sail4life]

I subscribed due to your excellent analysis of the forces involved in discussion with the French surveyor. You are a true sailor, never mind all the armchair experts and their unfounded vitriol.

[@antebratincevic6764]

It was not a French surveyor but a rigger. However, neither of them mentioned the main force of the genoa that pulls out the front stay, which acts on the mast through the hull and the masthead, which also buckles mast due to these forces. Furthermore, no one mentioned that aluminum is a material that ages several hundred times faster than steel under dynamic stress. There is something else called a defect in the structure of the material at a single point around which stress concentration is created. Including what was already said in the video, especially the effect of waves on the inertia of the boat, and no wave is the same, it is almost impossible to determine the exact reason for the breaking of the mast.

[@Sv_SeaDuctress]

Great video, clear explanations of the facts as you know it, sure should help other Amel owners. Job well done

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks 👍

[@DennisMacdonald-r7d]

Hoping you two coming back

[@SailingAquarius]

We are back :) With a new video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mX2YoZdooMSZmLs

[@w.mozart3048]

This is by far the best video you ever made! Don't get me wrong - your vids are very good and I love them. But this one is neither sugar coated nor does it accuse anyone without proper underlying facts. I am still shocked about the reaction of some, so called "honorable and experienced" sailors. F... them!

[@SailingAquarius]

There are only a few, but they are neither Honorable, nor Experienced. However, they are very vocal.

[@davidnada2238]

Great video, I live on a Jeanneau 45.1 and have sailed in some big weather. It seems all these boats have some weak points, they just all differ from brand to brand. I have had this boat swing on large swells at the bottom valley hitting it too sideways and the snap back is violent, I could see it ripping a mast down on any boat if all the right things lined up. I tend to drop sails in high seas over 15 feet, maybe just half the main for balance and motor. Wind does not bother me, she can take a lot, but if the boat starts flopping back and forth with quick snaps between it is beating the boat up for sure, the more it snaps back the more it beats stuff up. I friend of mine had his 44-foot cement sailboat snap in half from a rogue wave, it just hit him at an odd angle to the sails and snapped it in two, a half mile from shore in Santa Cruz Ca. I am glad you both are safe, boats come and go.

[@th-zd4oj]

Sch great facts amazing on the cover up from AMEl

[@eamonnwashington2771]

Thanks Ken and Z for your research and great presentation. I have a SM for 9 years and sailed about 18K miles, often with just the Genoa poled. I believe you were simply unlucky as, as you said, hundreds of Amels for many years had no problems. One question: did you have the SSB insulators on the Triatic stay? I always imagined if one mast were to fall that the insulators would break thus saving the second mast.

[@SailingAquarius]

Yes we had the insulators, and they didn't brake. Thanks!!

[@jsvno]

U did everything right..

[@ExposingReflections]

Should be able to find out how many replacement masts they have made or sold. Would give some insight into the number of incidents. A redit group for amel owners past and present would be good to start for poling purposes

[@AZ26744]

Hi, I'm a rigger but I've never been on an Amel (not many about here). Some observations: 1. Deck stepped masts have less stiffness in the gooseneck/ pole section, it seems like your mast failed when a a buckle in this area put it out of column. 2. There is an enormous cut out in the section where the mast failed (presumably for in mast furling?) Im sure its been engineered but its a major compromise in this area 3. If the builder has now altered the design to add carbon reinforcement to the lower mast section it implies that original section may not have had adequate stiffness 4. Changes in sails and rigging that have been introduced since your vessel was built have increased rig loads, i.e. high modulus sail cloth, in mast furling, dyneema/spectra rope, dyform wire etc. Sometimes these changes are made without proper thought as to the implications for rig loads. Dyneema sheets are quite bad in this respect, shock loadings can be substantially higher I hope you get to the bottom of how your rig failed, best of luck!

[@SailingAquarius]

Well said. I think that the Dyneema Sails (HydraNet) then stiffer, non-stretch lines. I believe has something to do with it. But, the fact that this happened to a boat in 2003 that was 3 months old.... makes me believe there is something else wrong. I think the main sail powering up at the same time you get a bump from the Genoa pole is what brought down the main mast.

[@AZ26744]

@@SailingAquarius Was the 03 dismasting due to a hard grounding?

[@SailingAquarius]

As far as I know, the 2003 dismasting was in similar weather conditions and rigged wing on wing with poled out Genoa.

[@AZ26744]

@@SailingAquarius If this rig type has failed twice, in similar circumstances, then it appears that there is a design problem. Deck stepped masts can suffer from inadequate stiffness around the gooseneck area and this is made much worse by large cut outs for the furling system. When you get your new rig built I would consider an uprated section or reinforcements in the lower panel. Even better you could ditch the in mast furling!

[@patrickfitzoot]

I'll add my 2 cents , that huge cutaway, right where the mast collapsed is an obvious problem. I worry when I add small holes in my mast for fittings etc. All cutouts in a column will weaken it, add side forces, it's pretty obvious. Hopefully the newer mast is better designed or reinforced somehow. P.s. another strike against In mast furling.

[@GentilcoreYoga]

That was an excellent video and I know it took a little of time to make. Well done !!!!

[@SailingAquarius]

Thank you very much!

[@JoseGabrielVenegas]

Ken and Siville, I congratulate you both on the way you handled the demasting and secured the rigging in the middle of the ocean. I am not sure I would have been able to do it with Magnolia alone. I have just a few thoughts that may help all of us to reduce the chances of having such a terrible event. I agree that the dynamic forces on the pole caused by a back-winded genoa and/or its return forward could have been the cause of breaking the mast combined with the metal fatigue caused by these forces applied thousands of times. I also agree with you that those forces could be as high if both poles are rigged ( without one sail). I think that the best way to minimize this problem is never to sail with the main and genoa wing-on-wing because this tends to make the boat more prone to turning towards the wind with a tall wave: as the boat is pushed upwind by a wave, the force of the main increases contributing to the boat further turning upwind (to starboard in your case). In contrast, when using the ballooner instead of the main, the forces of both sails are pulling forward from the front of the boat, making the boat motion more stable I think the safest approach for sailing long down-wind legs on our Amel SM's is to use the ballooner without the main. For short downwind legs or when the ballooner is not available, I may still use wing-on-wing but without polling the genoa. Jose Venegas Ipanema SM2K.

[@SailingAquarius]

Hi Jose, Very nice to hear from you, and I am still using the seals you designed in my bow thruster, and they work very well. I thought you would come out on the side of Bill**2, and they seem to be saying that it's OK to fly wing on wing with the Pole on the Genoa with the Main. I think that this sail plan is unsafe. Bill**2 also will not mention that Amel changed the manual in 2004 making it (kind of) illegal to fly one pole at a time. I think Amel changed the manual so that owners would NEVER be wing on wing with the Main and the Genoa poled - Because if you have the full ballooner system up, then the Main would just be in the way. Well, you might still have the Main out if you were trying to slow the rocking on a dead down run, but this is better accomplished with the mizzen pulled tight (not the main). But, I think that we are on the same page... I will never fly wing on wing with the Main and poled Genoa, I think this is very unsafe.. I will be very cautious using the poles. They should only be used if the weather is "worst case" 20Kts down wind, so you would see less than 15Kts apparent. Any more wind than this would make me feel very uncomfortable. The poles being attached on the Main Mast in a weak point, I believe was an Amel mistake... But, the main mast can take a lot of punishment, so maybe not a huge mistake. That leaves us with the question..... If the stretch of the blue line (Foreguy) is the difference between the rig coming down, or staying up.... Would you ever rig the poles? I think not. Ken

[@bradcraig495]

Thank you for this video-it must have been challenging for you to make. Even most cars have recall notices sent to second owners and such.wondering why amel wouldn't send manual changes out if they document such things like owner changes etc.keep up the great work you guys.

[@SailingAquarius]

But, Jemp was the first owner, he bought Aquarius in 1999. So, 5 years later he is on a Circumnavigation on Aquarius, and he was not informed of the change in the manual. We are not talking about a 2nd owner..... Jemp bought Aquarius new. Thanks for the comment!

[@bradcraig495]

So he wasn't told either?im a little confused ​@SailingAquarius

[@SailingAquarius]

Jemp was in the middle of a circumnavigation in 2004, had many conversations with Amel, and no mention of the change in procedures for the poles. Jemp told me he was quite upset about not getting the information from Amel.

[@GrinsInc]

Thanks for posting. Cheers, SV Good Karma as Grins.

[@SailingAquarius]

Our pleasure!

[@jamestim319]

Spot on Ken... Love my boat but I won't use the poles neither twin or single again. It's a flawed system. The fact you kept the evidence and now showing the community the truth is awesome.. Way too much politics in the Amel group by people who don't even own one anymore

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks. But, in light winds there is probably no problem. But, I would NEVER sail wing on wing poled out with the Genoa and the Main.

[@Berend-ov8of]

Having a known situation in which the mast serves as the fuse stinks poor design. Good thing you survived it.

[@akLeanne]

Good for you❤

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks!

[@jacobdanielkuiper5744]

It happened to a boat I was crewing on. Your one preventive measure is your imagination. When this happens, this is what I’ll do. Carry a saws-all. (We did the same, save everything) the masts have 50.000 worth of equipment on them. You need your antenna .2nd masts don’t sink! Do not leave trash for others to run in to. What the insurance company does with it all is up to them, you really have no control over that part, not a good reason to start dumping stuff.

[@mariusgrobler4235]

Guys, first of all, you did exceptionally well given the terrifying circumstances. DO NOT let anyone tell you anything else! What you went through will have a substantial number of sailors out there needing psychological help afterwards. I personally know of a similar case where one of the crew members that experienced something similar are psychologically damaged ... That said, after your horrible ordeal, I would want to own an Amel any day. These boats, in my view, remain the '4x4 Unimogs' of the oceans, and have proven this time after time. Having said that, and I am no specialist or expert, I can just imagine the incredible stresses the metals experience over many years, and even though it might not show in any manner or form, I guess metal fatique can happen just unexpectedly like in your case. I don't think this is your, or Amel's fault. Sh*t happens, and even though it's an awesome vessel, maintained meticulously over many years, metal fail and perhaps this is exactly what happened here. 'Obstacles INSTRUCT, and not OBSTRUCT' and you guys A'ced this as a team. Well done, thanks God you are safe and can continue exploring the wide open oceans. Fair winds, and stay safe! God bless ♡♡

[@willemhaifetz-chen1588]

Transparancy transparancy transparancy.

[@RLDavis-h2h]

In Waikiki, HI about a decade ago, one of the large beach cruising catamarans that carry about 30 people, was out at sea when suddenly the mast collapsed and there was a young boy killed and several injuries. Completely unexpected and sadly tragic.

[@sailingabroad6528]

Ohhh boy that's scary I started cruising finally and shock loading is a big fear of mine on my rig.

[@χχάάοοςς]

Its channels like these that got me interested in an Amel and I have been following several of those channels for the last year trying to learn as much as possible about these particular boats . However, its also reports like these that cause me to reconsider and look elsewhere. Lots of other boat manufacturers out there. Sure, none are perfect. However; No need to take a risk with proven design flaws and, whats even worse, poor manufacturer support. Wish you all the best dealing with the French. I will stick with Dutch boats. I am not saying they are perfect but the Dutch are considerably less arrogant and much more customer oriented and professional to deal with. And its customer support that can make or break ownership experience. Good luck with your boat!

[@tonycoutts-smith2663]

I am wondering if the pole arrangement is too strong in compression. The short section would take a lot of load before it buckled, allowing it to place a lot of load on the mast once the sail back winded violently. I am happy to have the pole go before placing a dangerous stress in the mast. Having said that I think arrangement is ingenious. I reckon Amel owners should be thankful tyou have produced this video.

[@SailingAquarius]

Some will appreciate the knowledge this video will offer, and some don't want to know. Others will make excuses for Amel.

[@tiagorinckcaveden4114]

Thank you for posting the explanation of how it happened, I was really curious. I'm not sure I understand how using two poles would avoid it though... 🤔

[@SailingAquarius]

I'm not sure either. It would have been nice if Amel would have let the owners 1) Know that the User Manual was changed, and 2) Why the User Manual was changed. These are the Questions!

[@aleksdre]

If you have both poles in position this would balance the torsion forces to some extent. If you apply any load on one pole the other one will counteract the side/torsion force due to inertia at least. The problem with the structure/shape of this type of mast is the lack of the structural integrity/continuity of the mast at the aft side as there is a slot for the main sail and thats the weakest part of the structure and that's the place where the mast broke initially (I think).

[@SailingAquarius]

You are correct that it initially broke where the pole connects to the mast, and you are correct that it is weak due to the slot for the inmast furling. Cheers

[@gotamd]

My guess is that the second pole would stabilize and distribute the forces on the mast. You essentially have a bisected triangle in one direction with a single pole and when the sail backfills, it would cause the pole to hammer into the mast. Having the second pole out and rigged on the opposite side would provide additional strength directly opposing the force going into/against the mast. That force would be redirected by the opposing pole and some of the force would go into the points where the opposing pole is tied down rather than being entirely absorbed by the mast.

[@tiagorinckcaveden4114]

@@gotamd In my mind I can only imagine the mast being squeezed between the two poles.

[@lucdube1612]

So well said. 👍

[@als2217]

One more time into the gap my dear friends! Nice job Ken.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thank you!

[@richardbenson4591]

Thank you for sharing this difficult experience. If you still have pieces of the broken mast, you could have the metal analyzed for fatigue. This can happen very slowly over time, not related to corrosion and completely undetectable until failure. It seems that it could be a plausible explanation for why it failed at this particular time, and not previously with the same sail configuration. Many universities have metallurgy departments that may do the work for free. Good luck with your investigation And I wish you Fair winds and following seas in the future.

[@SailingAquarius]

I think that all masts might have some stress or fatigue with age. But, this will only muddy the waters. We need to know why Amel changed the User Manual in 2004. That's it. This was no translation error, or somebody in marketing that made those changes. These changes came from engineering, why?

[@MHow1900]

Great video and history lesson. Maybe some talented CAD person can model the stresses. I was one who said, cut it all off. The reason, I was concerned you might be injured by a wave moving the masts, hitting you. I am very glad you are both safe. Amel has some serious explaining to do, which they never will on their own. Only a class action lawsuit will put them in their place, (maybe). I am happy to see you both back on the water. As for those who made inappropriate comments about your wife leaving for a while. No one has the right to judge. Every relationship is as unique as those sharing their life together. Once talked to an 84 yr old gentleman who’s wife jumped off their boat and swam 200m to shore in a foreign country, never to get on another sailboat. She had had enough with the storms at sea.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks for the comment. Z needed to take a well deserved brake from Aquarius after the dismasting and 10 days at sea with the masts down, and I needed to work 14 hour days for 6 weeks to make sure the work got done. Repairing Aquarius was something that I had to do on my own. Regarding Amel, all they have to do is let the owners know what they found in 2004 when they changed the User Manual. Z and I will be back on board Aquarius next season.... Cheers

[@jacobdanielkuiper5744]

Compression forces are never really talked about, but all forces needed to keep the mast where it needs to be will cause a 5 fold compression, the inconsistent design of the mast made it buckle in a very unusual place. It happened to me, but not like that. For us it was the mail stay. Lots of insurance fights regardless. Oh, we brought the mast in two!

[@jcmjcm1945]

Weve helped with 4 de*masting in SAR and the owners all were shocked many didnt know what to do. . It happens and staying calm os number one. The internet know it all needs to be ignored. If they knew they wouldn't be criticizing from their couch or recliner. It has happoned to yachts just sitting still. Best of cruising

[@sidczinkota5580]

When I tell people the make of my boat, they say "Oh, they made a great boat." Why do they say that? I think all people want to be seen as knowledgeable, so offering a compliment/endorsement is a real sneaky way of saying "I know a lot about sailboats", when really they don't have a bloody clue. The reality is: a production boat is made to sell and keep the shareholders happy. So your horn cleats will be aluminum and there will fewer than what you will need and they will be hollow aluminum and they will be one size smaller than what would be sensible and there will be no backing plates and the drill holes will have no sealant. Now where did I set my bottle of rum?

[@MadsToft]

Impressive evidence Ken.

[@SailingAquarius]

Thanks Mads Man.. See you in a month or so!

[@mosca3289]

Sharks live not only in the sea. Best wishes to Aquarius.

[@sailingwiththeerros9139]

Good sluthing. Glad the pair of you are ok.

[@WillN2Go1]

Really useful information even if my boat isn't an Amel or a ketch. My take away is maybe I should rig more preventers and barber haulers with some shock relief.... But It would be really really important if the manufacturer or anybody, knew of a set up that was risky they share that.

[@ericdelevinquiere9902]

Unfortunately most people don’t realize the forces at play on masts, sails are capable of generating huge amount of energy ( like more than 10X the engine on the boat) and their rigging and support are under obvious constraints. If you are worried about this , get a shorter mast or reinforce.

[@SailingAquarius]

You are correct, the forces are tremendous. But, we need to know why Amel made a drastic change to the User Manual, and kept it a secret. OK, Amel didn't keep it a secret, but they didn't tell all the previous buyers.

[@ericdelevinquiere9902]

@@SailingAquarius This is really more a legal issue than a technical one, obviously they are aware of the problem.

[@SailingAquarius]

At this point in time, I don't think that Amel has any legal issues. But, it would be nice to know why such a drastic change in the manual in 2004.