The Vow: SARAH EDMONDSON talks NXIVM, Allison Mack & More

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Sarah Edmondson (TheVow) joins us this week and shares her entire experience in NXIVM, a cult connected with Smallville co-star Allison Mack and known for manipulating its members emotionally, financially, and sexually.
Sarah talks about how the cult’s leaders dismantled the intuition of its followers by erasing their moral compass.
She also gets into her ‘waking up’ moment that triggered her departure, her experience with the group’s brainwash, and the shock of realizing some of the misconduct after the fact.
The Vow: Sarah Edmondson (2020) | Inside of You Podcast w/ Michael Rosenbaum #anxiety #insideofyou

[@InsideOfYouPodcast]

Crazy stories this week. Hope you folks enjoy this one 💙 Subscribe!

[@prncssgk19]

I’m sure it will be awesome as usual! 💙

[@franktaylor595]

Oh I'll enjoy 😁 😉

[@officialdanrocha]

I've been watching the doc on HBO, and holy shit! I'm glad Sarah was able to share her story even more.

[@juanolivier8537]

Will be tuned in

[@jdc1979]

It’s hard to judge and not to judge. I don’t know how I would have reacted when faced with the situation. But people do crazy things to belong. We just need to be careful about our situation

[@annabellemora7950]

I remember being in College and one of my Professors asked to see me during office hours. She wanted to "mentor" me because she felt she saw a lot of herself in me and wanted me to reach my max potential. So she took me to an ESP class and remember felt pressured to sign up for the 5 day right then and there. They would not let me leave without signing up! I said I had to get my credit card from my car and ran! I dropped her class and avoided her for the rest of my college days. The cult vibes were real!

[@ChristinaTaft]

I'm glad you left. Anything internalizing which can make a person trapped in their head instead of externalizing to be action-focused is harmful.

[@annabellemora7950]

@@ChristinaTaft Absolutely. In the beginning I really wanted to do it. I was young, vulnerable with low self esteem and they sold me on how much more I could accomplish if I would stop doubting myself. It was when they kept insisting I signed the paperwork and left the check right then (also the look in their eyes!) that raised a huge red flag and I knew if they would pressure me like that, they were not trying to help me.

[@HelloNewMoon]

Yikes!!!! What an abuse of their position!!

[@LovedandSavedbyYah]

Wow!

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

but what if it really would have helped you? I'm super shy so i would probably like a class like that.

[@ambzerambzer8800]

Michael is such as perfect interviewer, I’ve noticed in all of them, he’s great at keeping the pace, he lets them talk and switches the subject when needs to, he’s so kind, genuinely interested, and doesn’t push people into becoming uncomfortable. And all of his own comments and stories are totally valid or funny and fair. He’s just so great at it, that I’ll even probably listen to some episodes with people I don’t even know about and get to know them and their story

[@pniner]

He's a masterclass, really. This is the perfect length and format for his syle.

[@kiradanae6743]

I loved when Sarah lost her train of thought, and Michael showed how engaged he is by recapping in his own words what Sarah had been talking about and then seamlessly transitioned to the next topic. He’s impressive!

[@BrosephComrade]

THE MOTH FACE

[@drCuddl3z]

stop simping

[@ambzerambzer8800]

@@drCuddl3z Simping? I am not 12 years old I do not "Simp"

[@Hillary-._]

I hope NXIVM being exposed will help Scientologists realize how these tactics parallel with their “religion.”

[@jungleGSC]

the same could be said about any religion. don't pick on scientology like its the only bullshit religion out there. they're all bullshit.

[@lja530]

@@jungleGSC Number one, "religion" is not the same as "church". One is something personal, while the other is an organization. Number two, organizations can demand outrageous amounts of money from people (like scientology) and pressure people into cutting ties with people on the outside. The Catholic church and any of the Christian bodies that separated from the Church during the Reformation don't tend to operate that way. Well, a lot of them still bully people when they're gay, but that's a another story.

[@jungleGSC]

@@lja530 you're buggin. the catholic church is the wealthiest landowner and money lender in the world

[@SDesWriter]

@@jungleGSC No it couldn't. People who say that know nothing about religion. Most religions tell you up front what they are going to do (and what you need to do) and let you make the choice. The other main difference is most religions NEVER ask you to distance yourself from your friends or family (they encourage you to be a good influence on them). That's how you know you're being conned by a cult.....because they tell you things to isolate you and make you more vulnerable.

[@jungleGSC]

@@SDesWriter ok buddy

[@charlesderosas5577]

That cooking part with Allyson's friends was a trip.

[@brandocabz1023]

watch that clip end up in the vow season 2 lol

[@charlesderosas5577]

@@brandocabz1023 if they had smart phones maybe lol.

[@kellyl7688]

Yeah, totally weird.

[@JD-dr3rg]

Haha his reaction was hilarious. Can't wait to see the interview they have with Nancy salzman.

[@taylorwelling9242]

Right!

[@zencreature]

So many Scientology terms, suppressive people, Therapists are bad, saving humanity, the "tech"... UGH. So sorry she went through this. They took her good intentions and twisted them against her.

[@quintuplebanned4267]

Therapists are kind of, bad though. I never joined a cult to learn this information.

[@jamesgirl208]

@@quintuplebanned4267 why do you believe that?

[@fraufuchs9555]

I see a lot in common with Jehova witnesses too.

[@tiffprendergast]

Yup

[@christofl6523]

No, she actually used these techniques against others to get them to join and then got out and played the victim card.

[@hankbug]

I just finished the series "The Vow" and I can't believe how long Keith Raneire was allowed to navigate in this world. Sarah, Bonnie, Catherine, actually all the women/men that fought to bring this to light are brave beyond measure. Thank you Michael for interviewing such an incredible woman.

[@Deedubau]

They would still be around if it wasn't for Sarah and Mark trying to actively stop them. I can't exactly blame anyone for leaving and not doing anything about it because they had tons of money to go after and threaten anyone who tried to take them down.

[@hankbug]

@@Deedubau Exactly.

[@miriamhavard7621]

​@@hankbugmale chauvinistic behavior is still very much acceptable to men AND women.

[@raptorsentry]

"A hero is one who heals their own wounds, and then show others how to do the same." -Yung Pueblo Michael, Sarah, and every single guest on this show definitely fits the bill of being heroes.

[@loristrode9556]

idk about that Sara was still influencing the masses to be in a sex cult. I understand righting your wrongs but she has a long way to go before becoming a hero.

[@peterp8542]

Just started watching the vow, I never understood how people can get involved in such crazy situations but the 1st episode provides a lot of clarity.

[@beyonce3]

After episode one I wanted to join 👀

[@AlyxCoe]

Not enough clarity, as far as I'm concerned. I've got questions that probably never will be answered.

[@miriamhavard7621]

​@@beyonce3😂

[@TheMelMan]

This was incredibly insightful. And really sad. I really loved Allison Mack as a kid. So sad that her life and all these other people went like that. Glad Sarah and her family got out.

[@taffysaur]

I felt the same, I always had such a crush on her. Well, more on the character of Chloe, but yeah...

[@Mythowars]

I watched smallville after it had finished viewing on tv. My buddy had the box set at his place and I as a huge Superman fan said yo what are these. He said dude you haven’t seen this show? And popped it in. I binged and binged and loved it and it’s characters. About a month after I finished the show I figured out about Allison Mack and my chest sank. I was like Michael and said to my friend holy shit I can’t believe it she seems so sweet.

[@catspaw3092]

It's hard to believe she would fall into this why would she ask Keith to help her become a great actress again when she already was? If she felt she wanted to talk to someone she should've went to a therapist & lets not for get her castmate Kristin got Allison into the cult. Had Allison not been to NXIVM she would still be acting today..

[@miriamhavard7621]

​@@catspaw3092maybe, maybe not.

[@Starree744]

All of these doc's coming out about Nexium now is so weird for me to watch. Sarah Edmonson was my camp counselor as a kid. She was everyone's favourite counselor. It's just so strange to see her talk about these awful things she was pulled into. I'm so glad she's doing better and was part of the fight to get Keith rainere in jail.

[@KrisTomLuver]

Thanks for having her on your podcast! I think it's so important that this story keeps getting shared so that stuff like this doesn't happen to anyone else. Sarah is so refreshing! She is down to earth and so real about her experiences and her courage and strength is inspiring! Also, seriously, your podcasts are great and the only ones I listen to!

[@princesslollypop7764]

He got sentenced to 120 years in prison. And there are people who still support him and believe he is innocent. So crazy

[@angie8412]

Koo Koo is for crazy pops..lol lol. Ya 1000% rite!!! (Ya remember that cerial commercial)?

[@ebogar42]

There are people that support Kyle Coward Rittenhouse too. That's even more crazy that people think you can just gun down a person just because you have a gun and someone tries to fight you. That's not how lethal force laws work at all. You definitely can't shoot the people that try to stop you from fleeing from a murder scene either. Also not how lethal force laws work when you're the murder suspect on the run with a gun.

[@princesslollypop7764]

@@ebogar42 thanks for the reply. Had to google Kyle. From Australia 🇦🇺. Gosh he is so young.

[@ebogar42]

@@princesslollypop7764 Yeah, he was young and very stupid. Will probably spend the rest of his life in prison. Half the country thinks he's a hero though. It's ridiculous.

[@gonzothegreat1317]

@@ebogar42 Or he'll get a medal. Depends on who wins in a few days from now, right? Your president, in his first term, let many guilty people walk free. Maybe in his next term he'll imprison the innocent.

[@ginagrittani5231]

Cults exist. We must educate and protect ourselves. Thank you for this informative podcast.

[@KrisBryant15]

Not really. You just got to know what your mind wont tolerate but I DO agree that cult personalities do exist but cults dont exist by fate. You just have to know what feels off for your organic thinking.

[@leannepritchett6323]

Sarah is a brave woman to come on and share her story. This is going to be a powerful episode that we can all learn from. Thank you Rosey for dedicating this episode to such an important topic❤️

[@EngineerInMotion]

Are you related to Jay Pritchett?

[@leannepritchett6323]

Nope. No relation.

[@meredithheath5272]

@Bobby yeah - turns out, apparently, that she benefitted from "next victim", but when the house if cards began to fall, she figured that she would be smart and play the victim, so she would escape legal charges

[@christofl6523]

She is just as guilty as the others. None of them including Keith should have gone to prison because they all chose to be in that group. There were no victims until after the fact.

[@danyluk1]

she's a phony

[@illimattic]

There was a special feature on the smallville DVDs about Allison Mack directing a smallville episode "Power," which shows that she was always interested in self help, purpose, and female empowerment, so she was the perfect person to be manipulated by Raniere.

[@lizbif0315]

I think by then she was already well into nexium

[@stonehorn4641]

@@lizbif0315 exactly. She was directly involved with Rainire by then.

[@kb5509]

An actor just directing an episode of a TV show is not evidence of anything. Most actors direct an episode of their show if it's on long enough.

[@dougpirko211]

I slept on this one last week, and just came back. So glad I did. This may be one of my favourite Inside of You episode.

[@craigmcavoy445]

Crazy...I live literally five minutes from the houses where this went down. Rainiere lived across the street from a good friend. I interacted with some of the members- seemed a little weird and “new agey” but no clue what was really going on. It’s so weird watching it on TV! So glad they got out and got help.

[@pucktie215]

I was at Silver Bay when Nexium stayed there. Crazy.

[@PolarisCastillo]

How would you interact with the members?

[@-M0LE]

@@PolarisCastillo exactly

[@LovedandSavedbyYah]

Wow!

[@miriamhavard7621]

You could write a paper or an article based on sharing your experience and perspective!

[@JessimusPrime]

This was an excellent interview, Michael! I followed Smallville for the whole run and each cast member feels like a high school friend. Finding out Allison was so knee deep in it was shocking. I feel hurt for her and everyone who was affected by Keith ultimately. I’ve been absorbing all informations on this, just looking for answers. This was simply excellent. We can feel that you’re also shook by this, I think we’re all on that boat. Great educational tool to know what to look out for when it comes to cults. Seems like every generation has its prominent one and every generation has to be educated against them.

[@Kiytcu]

I’m so proud of everyone that was involved speaking out.

[@arlo3502]

What I get from this is that, just as the people leaving NXVIM are going through a process of coming to terms with reality after leaving the cult, Michael Rossenbaum is also going through his own process of reconciling how this could have happened to his friend Alisson.

[@KrisBryant15]

NXVIM don't sound like a damn cult. It's just people having fun and doing what they want where as Sarah sounds like a jilted lover who probably got kicked put or wasn't favored 😂

[@Reverb30]

This was a very powerful conversation because it touched a good amount of surface of what these cults are. Sarah was so candid about her thoughts and her own process on what she believed in and how a cult like this used her. She truly wanted to do good in the world, which we all do, as well as becoming better within ourselves. It’s scary to think how easy it is to fall into that. This was a major takeaway for all. Well done as always 👍

[@gordenz24]

Michael thanks for doing this interview there is a lot of us that haven't heard the story

[@AlizzaBliss]

I had the same reaction as Michael from the first ep then the second lol Like "That actually sounds interesting" to "Holy shit WTF!"

[@opindersangha2761]

Watch Seduced. The reaction you had, I had too. My questions were what happened? how did it happen? Nothing looks wrong here. Where as Seduced makes you see exactly what NXIVM was.

[@AlizzaBliss]

@@opindersangha2761 Yes!

[@jazminramos9750]

Loving that she is doing the best interview with whole family by her side

[@s1thpunk]

What Michael didn't mention was that Kristen Kreuk was the one who introduced her (Allison) to this group in the first place.

[@bhargavipba]

And then Kristin got out before things started to get weird but Allison was sucked into it.

[@GrahamCStrouse]

@@bhargavipbaThings were weird from the start. Kristin worked that part out. Allison was drawn to the weirdness like a moth to a flame.

[@lindafogarty3924]

We should never judge a person for their mistakes, we all make them and all of us are deceived by people in one way or another at different times in our lives. It’s just great that she has come out of it and has learned so much from her experience. I’m really happy for her.

[@killerbean5343]

Yea get what your saying but It doesn't excuse what she did

[@ElanaVital83]

@@killerbean5343 Exactly. She did hurt people under her.

[@Will-ge7ri]

You should definitely judge a person based on their mistakes. Everyone plays awful actions off as mistakes. You should amend those judgements based on subsequent actions.

[@negation1978]

Looking forward to seeing how you handled this interview. It’s sure to be different and very interesting. Keep up the great episodes! ❤️

[@InsideOfYouPodcast]

Very different, but think you guys will dig it!

[@latroletteeeee]

@@InsideOfYouPodcast Sweetie.. You come off as very manipulative sometimes.

[@maja1157]

@@latroletteeeee says the one who uses the powerplay "sweetie" I'm sure any interviewer does.

[@conniepomerleau821]

I have watched The Vow and all of Leah Reminis’ Scientology tv show and her podcast....... Keith definitely followed the same path as Hubbard. Way too many similarities to ignore, from the brainwashing and the terminology Sarah used. Such horrible human beings to do this to such good people! Thank you for sharing ❤️❤️ your journey

[@StephanieTips]

They both bashed therapy, they both were based on paying more and more money to get to a progressively better place and stage in the "cult"

[@tiffprendergast]

Yup

[@tiffprendergast]

@@StephanieTips yup

[@Raquel986]

Yep they both seem very similar!

[@christophersmyth1908]

Michael, the similarities between NXIUM and Scientology are so close. You should have Leah Remini and Sarah on together sometime.

[@brettglick8813]

What an amazing interview. I love the fact you didn't jump right into esp/nxivm. I find very interesting how someone grows and changes to become who they are and how they got there.

[@jasonchicago7276]

I think Sarah is an extraordinary person. I appreciate everything she's doing. She's the kind of friend I would want in life.

[@iLoveBlink182sTom]

Can’t wait to watch this episode after Clinicals today. It’s definitely going to be an extremely interesting and powerful one! I admire her bravery to share her story ♥️

[@InsideOfYouPodcast]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@danyluk1]

Powerful ego and stupidity.

[@thewkovacs316]

@@danyluk1 that is all that it is about

[@teeshirtandjeans84]

Scarred is such an amazing book. I highly recommend it, especially in audio book form (which Sarah narrates). Thank you for sharing your stories, Sarah. Much love and peace to you and your family ❤

[@dbgreene9020]

Finally a full explanation of how this could happen to ANYONE. Really well done interview!!

[@ElanaVital83]

Not anyone. She did say about 1 out of 30 recruits didn't fall for this

[@miriamhavard7621]

I'm so glad Nippy kept loving his wife Sarah and the DOS thing didn't drive a wedge between them! 🌺

[@jimbobjunior.]

I would never have fallen into it purely because I'm way too cheap to spend even half that kind of money on anything!

[@ElanaVital83]

I wouldn't have fallen for it because my parents forced me to go to a creepy church as a kid. Anything where a group of people are trying to dictate how I am makes me claustrophobic

[@okyouknowwhatever]

This "everyone can fall into a cult" mantra some of these cult victims repeat just seems like a thing to say to feel better about themselves. Thing is it's most always a certain type of naive and over-idealistic person who falls victim to this type of organisations or con men. I listened to a fairly long segment with Mark Vicente here on YT, Sarah Edmonson's business partner and fellow Raniere cult member, and while he came across as a fairly intelligent and nice guy, he still had gone into it all with this ambition to "make the world a better place through a new consciousness" or some shit like that, which just sounds super cult-ish in itself.

[@jonathon8673]

Powerful eye-opening intense episode, glad you were able to have Sarah on to share her story. Thank you for another good one Rosey, appreciate all that you do.

[@TvMovieSparks88]

So happy I am getting to know this side of Sarah we don’t see in the vow thank you rosey this big episode

[@briannalee1998]

She's a voice actress. When I was seven and obsessed with Barbie, she was in one of those movies. I didn't know it was her until I looked her up. I recognize her voice now.

[@karent2419]

KZbin directed me here because I was just listening to something else about the Vow. And I stayed for the whole thing! You're an excellent interviewer who lets people talk. I thought you were very empathetic and real. quick Google search on you shows me you're a fellow Long Islander! No wonder...

[@landofjennay]

I am with you. I was like “I’ll just watch a couple minutes and then do something else.” Two hours later and I’ve watched the whole thing.

[@philipho188]

I was a huge fan of Alison Mack. If she approached me, I would've done anything for her. The people who are saying the vow people were stupid. Well if the right person approached you, you'll never know what you do...

[@richardbillingsley9553]

Exactly. You don't know.

[@ad8554]

The older I get I feel like it's more like Michael says oh I know my brother....do I?. The older I get the more I don't put things past people and become more cautious/ skeptical of people's intentions

[@kelly3014]

I agree.

[@AdultThirdCultureKid1971]

None of us knows what we'd do if we were in the Vow people's situation.

[@acer4237]

Good comment...it’s sometimes easy to get lured in regardless of rich or poor.

[@Adry0110]

Wow! It's amazing how open, honest and calm she is about that whole situation. To be able to talk about that in public requires some special kind of strength. Being able to see, after 12 years, what the reality was...wow! I would be crawled up in ball somewhere. This is what I like about this podcast. Honest conversations with real people, not (just) the version of them we (the public) usually see on TV. Kudos!

[@ericsessa3579]

Great episode! I like how this one was slightly different in terms of its approach by tackling something that affected a lot of people but still retained the same tone as the rest of your podcasts.

[@prncssgk19]

I look forward to every Tuesday because there’s a new episode of IOU but I have been watching The Vow so I’m even more excited for this interview! Love you, Rosey!😘💙

[@InsideOfYouPodcast]

You're the best!

[@MrSmith-zo6po]

After watching most of "The Vow" after starting this podcast, this woman deserves a medal.

[@sarynellivalerin7691]

Michael, you did a great job in this interview. It's tricky and dark stuff to talk about but you put it in laymen's terms as you like to say and made it really personable. If there's any lesson to be learned from this is to beware of people who can sense your vulnerability because if you run across someone like Keith Raniere, they will always manipulate you to get what they want. Also, ALWAYS listen to your gut. You know yourself better than anyone!

[@maxcardun]

You're real bold about the subjects you put on your show. I heard at a Smallville Panel that people weren't allowed to ask about NXIVM, but here you are touching that subject.

[@meganh7448]

wow this was the interview I was waiting for. Thank you to Sarah for sharing more of her story. The Vow is so good. What a horrific tale of a sociopath!

[@CyclonChick]

This was an intense and insightful interview. Very brave and very candid, really enjoyed it, thank you!

[@vivianbloom166]

Great conversation - thank goodness Sarah had the courage to come forward! It put an end to abuses that could have gone on for years.

[@icc2010]

I live right outside Albany, NY and its weird knowing this shit was going on essentially in my backyard. Especially growing up watching Smallville.

[@Ireanna]

You should watch Seduced on Starz, they go into it a lot deeper than the vow.

[@dethtrip663]

I found the vow to be more interesting. Mainly because of how much footage they had. Listening to all the recorded phone calls you can actually hear what was said to justify the actions as well as what was said to pull people out of this thing. To me watching the vow it felt like I was right there with them as they were waking up to the insanity and blowing the whistle on this crazy ass cult.

[@nonnidreams]

🚨BIG SPOILER🚨‼️❗️ He “taught” to normalize “child pedophilia”...Cringe😬 E01 of Seduced: Inside The NXVIM Cult, near the end.

[@mykidsmomogx5]

I actually watched both the Vow and Seduced with my 18yr old daughter. Glad I did

[@nonnidreams]

@@mykidsmomogx5, I am having a hard time watching Seduced...so many cringey moments, as a highly sensitive, perceptive and empathetic person. Vow was easier, and interviews on KZbin. Very eye opening to know the signs to warn people from getting sucked into a cult, right?

[@briannalee1998]

I want to see it

[@Capronice]

I would find it very hard to trust anything Alison Mack ever says again. It appears to me that Alison Mack was fully aware what she was doing. She made sure the girls in DOS got branded. She wasn't like the ones who were branded and realized they were being abused. Mack was doing the abuse and took the role of master of the slaves. I think she was just as manipulative as Keith Raniere.

[@meredithheath5272]

👏👏👏👏 it turns out, Edmonson is just as manipulative as the others. She got smart, and got out just before the house of cards fell, and played the victim to escape legal charges

[@tiffprendergast]

Yup

[@tiffprendergast]

@Tasha Vladimiroff not true

[@theyoutubeanalyst3731]

@@meredithheath5272 how do you know that? And how she ended up getting branded if she was as manipulative as the others? Because I don't think Allison got branded

[@KrisBryant15]

​@@theyoutubeanalyst3731because the "cult" she escaped from was just people having fun where as you can tell she's just angry about not being favored anymore in it.

[@sjogre7789]

Don't feel to odd. People who knew Ted Bundy wanted him to run for public office. Because he was so charismatic.

[@kellyyork3898]

Things like this make me so glad I’m an introvert…I don’t need to belong to any group…just thinking about being around people like this makes me break out in a rash.

[@niros9667]

Great episode Michael. I've been following this story since word first broke, being a huge Smallville fan I immediately thought of you and how shocking it must be to you. I honestly still can't believe that Alison Mack was one of the ones behind it, it's creepy that she's always seemed constantly sweet in the media prior to all this... Could be one of the most shocking celebrity stories of our time to be honest.

[@GothamKnight84661]

She never was, she's the devil!!

[@miriamhavard7621]

I watched "Smallville" for Tom Welling, Michael Rosenbaum and Annette O'Toole.

[@lauragalvez3596]

iI love to listen to these podcast on a daily basis. They're so niceeee. I feel like i'm chatting with friends about interesting stuff.

[@Coopenator]

There's so much of this that reminds me of Heaven's Gate. The insular community, the not questioning the leaders, etc.

[@paulamarie43]

You handled the interview really really well. I just found your Chanel and I subbed for your authentic approach to real life. I honour this interview and pray the best for this family.

[@DonnaBoyleMedium]

And this is why I say, "there is no good/bad, right/wrong" You found your purpose in this experience. Look at what you are doing now. YOU ARE shifting Soul consciousness, Sarah. And you asked for a sign . . . you got it. Thank you for your service to all Souls. I appreciate the sacrifice you made for all of us.

[@ElanaVital83]

Nah. Don't make her a hero. Remember she hurt people, too

[@nicholasmeola920]

This is a great interview. Michael having a personal connection with Allison Mack really helps to draw you in. Allison Mack did some horrible things and she is going to pay the ultimate price but there is a part of me that can't help thinking that at one time she was a normal innocent woman who got lured by a sexual predator.

[@johnmunoz2320]

I have enjoyed all of your podcasts since I discovered it a few months back but lately you've been on an absolute tear. Thanks for all the hard work you put into this show, we appreciate you!

[@zoharracz1568]

Holy shit this gave chills. Sarah is a goddamn hero and her opening up to you all while holding the baby is an amazing display of maternal power

[@buffywasright]

I'm really conflicted about this. A hero? She seems so sweet and kind, and she ended up waking up, but are we supposed to just brush off the fact that, in her own words, she was directly responsible for recruiting 100 people, and indirectly 1000, who were then brainwashed? Some, if not all the women, abused? I don't know how to feel about this.

[@AngelsVoiceASMR]

@@buffywasright oh Jesus get off your high horse she did what ever she could to rectify things when she woke up. Have you ever tried to fix something like this bug in your life ... probably not .... smh

[@buffywasright]

@@AngelsVoiceASMR Calm down, snowflake. No, I haven’t had to fix in my life the fact that I’ve led women to abuse and branding. I said I was conflicted about it, I didn’t bash her. You’re the one on your high horse just now. Relax.

[@theresemarkham9387]

It was so brave of her to discuss this. I am so glad that she got out safely.

[@Ted2of25]

Thank you for doing this podcast. I've been watching The Vow myself and it's scary how they indoctrinated so many people. If i didn't have such a good support system in my family and friends i fear i might have fell for all of it myself. I don't know Alison personally(outside of Smallville) but as a fan, it hurts me to hear how deeply she was involved in this cult. I see so many people online outright condemning her yet keeping holding out hope that she's not beyond redemption. This conversation helped me feel a little better about that, i look forward to when Alison can come on and tell her story.

[@tinawindham6958]

So true. No family ties, lots of mental illness, ptsd. Very easy to get roped in and have instant big family support!

[@LiLisa24]

I know this episode is going to be a powerful one and very interesting. Sarah Edmondson is such a brave woman to be sharing her story and her experiences. Thank you for having her on podcast Rosey. I'm so grateful I get to tune in to this podcast every week. It is the best and so are you. Thank you for all you do ❤️ Happy Tuesday 💙

[@InsideOfYouPodcast]

Happy Tuesday :) we get into a lot on it. good stuff

[@LiLisa24]

@@InsideOfYouPodcast Wow!! That was an amazing interview!

[@md28stads]

So sad about Alison Mack. I remember really really liking her as a kid growing up. Just a tragedy what this cult did to these men and women

[@tanyashearer4374]

Love that you had Sarah on the podcast. She is incredibly brave to tell us her story.

[@acer4237]

After watching The Vow , at first I thought these are adult women sleeping with a conman but now see it was more than that. I’m sure when they heard the sentence of 120 years, it gave them some peace and sense of justice knowing he’d be behind bars.

[@skiinian85]

I remember when my a capella group was being recruited by them in Albany back in 2007-2008. I remember joking that Keith looked like he thought he was the 2nd coming if Christ but also was so cool meeting Allison Mack. Never got sucked....but jeez who knew 😳

[@smdias65]

Wow. The loyalists that she mentioned sound like the female members of the Manson family who would stand outside the courthouse and shout about the injustice of Manson's trial. I'm glad she got out of that. Michael, did you ever think about calling your band (or duo I guess) Rosey Dan?

[@theoriginalsuzycat]

OMG I love this

[@bigmaky8253]

Mark Twain said, "It's easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled." Even more when you have "skin" in the game. That's why pro football players go broke chasing bad investments with worse ones. And that's how people join a self help group and, after paying lots of money and the giving of their time, chase a return on that investment. Trying to get that return creates a "blind spot" for evil. Instead of cutting your losses, you double down.

[@adrianacortez9064]

Yes I remember Mark Twain quite often. I read HuckleberryFinn and I remember my teacher quoting Mark Twain and I have never forgotten her lesson and she pointed it out where it happens in the book. It has stayed with me forever at all times and what I got from it is that these people that are deceiving get away with it oftentimes because those that catch on are too embarrassed to accept what had happened to them to tell and these con artists simply pick up their tents and continue their cons somewhere else

[@anekamckenzie9504]

Wow Michael, the last interview I really enjoyed was Kevin Conroy & I thought that was amazing. Congrats on another awesome interview this time with this powerful story about the Nexium cult. Keep up the good work. Hope you still get some good rest & recharge time in between working on your podcasts though.

[@Moviefan2k4]

I saw a sit-down video with Allison and Keith Raniere once, and it was clear to me she was pretty much fawning over him. I have no idea what she saw in him, because to me he seemed like a slick-tongued weasel who was playing on her desire to be accepted. I'm glad she got out of his cult, but I really hope she gets some professional emotional help.

[@kulaniwarner7262]

Great interview! People who think they can’t be fooled, no matter how “smart” they think they are, are in fact more prone to being bamboozled.

[@sablehillgsdsbecca3673]

Very insightful powerful interview, wow. Thank you Michael and Sarah for this. I always look forward to Tuesdsys now just to finish work come home unwined by listening to this great Podcast. I find myself being able yo relate to come of the guests and you Micheal. Looking forward to next weeks episode. Thank you to everyone that puts this Podcast to life.

[@RobertoGarcia-kh3pn]

Lex always seems to be a cool down to earth cat, I’m glad he did this podcast episode.. keep up the great work M.R.

[@tinawindham6958]

Meow

[@Isazouzi]

Congrats on this interview, you did an awesome job.

[@amydearing9866]

I really wish they had talked about Nicki Clyne (also an actress) & how she is the one out dancing in front of the prison & married to Allison Mack

[@louisecoulombe2854]

These long days at these seminars would make one very vulnerable. They're tired, they've been made to listen all day long for hours on end. Tony Robbins, Chances...they all prey on people this way.

[@Playitstraight44]

That was one of the best interviews I've seen in years. Well done! Michael I think your questions were asked respectfully and done with tremendous tack. Just an incredible story.

[@loolufun]

Bothers me so much the victim shaming of the ex members on social media watching the vow! These people put themselves at risk to expose KR/illegal behavior/get him arrested. FBI really dropped the ball for too long! I'm curious if some were bought too by bronfman money. Can you get Mark Vicente (film maker) And no offense I hope Allison goes to prison for a long time. She was high level, right hand to Satan and enjoyed punishing women. She liked the power. Read Cath's book too.

[@quintuplebanned4267]

How judgy and shaming are you? Don’t you kind of think maybe Allison Mack could also be considered, at least a partial victim, if Mark is? The depth of his involvement was deep enough to see the vile nature of Keith Raniere. Just because he wised up a little quicker than Allison might have more to do with being male, in this particular cult, than you are considering.

[@GB2595]

A person can be a victim and a perpetrator at the same time. So Alison being a victim of Reniere and her victimising women can both be true at the same time. So she should not get away with that. She used these women as slaves and made them sleep with Raniere. She does not get to play the victim.

[@stevenedwardmaylott6078]

I think Micheal makes a good point when he makes the comparison to knowing people from high school and how they become different people other the years. Then his story about Alison Mack turning up to his house like she owned it.

[@mbbeautea6986]

I’m obsessed with that poster of the Jerk!!!! One of my all time favorite Steve Martin movies!! Bowfinger? Love is SO MUCH & of course who doesn’t love dirty rotten scoundrels??

[@ambersmithdash]

This seems so much like Scientology. Things are really similar. Leah Remini’s documentary series was one of the most eye opening things to be about cults. Anxious to see the vow!

[@John-ip1bp]

Much respect Sarah ❤️ Your strength is an inspiration to so many. Thank you for sharing your story. I know it could not have been easy.

[@IronmanV5]

The real scary part of her story is how it could have happened to anyone, including myself. I'm Glad for her and her husband that they escaped and that they are doing better.

[@thewkovacs316]

think so? as wc fields said, you cant cheat an honest man

[@carletonlegrant5605]

@@thewkovacs316 Sorry would not happen to me I'm sorry but if people are stupid enough to get into a cult they deserve what they get. They must of not been very smart to begin with, Anyone who agrees to brand themselves is a moron that should of made these women get sane quick. These Women just did not have common sense.

[@tylermane77]

@@carletonlegrant5605 Ohh you're so tough. Spoken like somebody who has zero actual knowledge of how people get sucked into cults. And if you do, you actively reject it to peacock on the internet like an asshole.

[@icepikoftime]

I don't look down on people who are susceptible to joining a cult, but I and many others aren't one of them. I know it's very common to say "it could happen to you too" but I think it's a coping mechanism and that's a perfectly fine thing to say. Whatever helps you get there mentally.

[@taffysaur]

@@carletonlegrant5605 *should HAVE You should be sure of your grammar before crowing on the internet about how much smarter than everyone else you are.

[@icegypsy99]

Back in college, they brought in a hypnotist for entertainment. You know the kind of thing where they bring random people up on stage and make them bark etc. I was always very skeptical of that sort of thing. Due to an incident from my childhood. I always had major trust issues. The thought of not having control of myself always terrified me. It's why I never got into drugs or drinking. Anyway, as this guy starts the show he starts talking in that soft calming therapist tone of voice. As he continues random people just start walking up on stage. It was the craziest thing. After about 20 minutes of him talking, I found myself compelled to go up on stage myself. The little voice in the back of my mind went; wtf wake up. Don't allow this guy get into your head and take control over you. If I almost gave in to that, I can see how even a strong willed person could get sucked into a cult like that. Scary that it went on as long as it did. I feel bad for the ones that lost years from their life they will never get back. I hope they are able to find their way back to their real selves against.

[@Raquel986]

Oh wow that’s crazy scary!

[@icegypsy99]

@@Raquel986 I watched some of the videos of Keith Raniere. talking to Allison Mack, and on occasion, he talked the way that hypnotist talked I saw back in college. very creepy to see

[@Raquel986]

@@icegypsy99 I have always wondered if hypnosis was real. But after reading what you said it’s really real! And after watching the Seduced documentary on Starz those people were really manipulative by using hypnosis. I’m going to find the video with Allison and that freak name Keith.

[@coldwhitespring5004]

Nancy Salzman did hypnosis before she got involved in Nexium.

[@adrianlopez8796]

20 minz late but I'm here to hear this while I'm working at work lowkey I've been listening to all of your podcasts during work and time goes by fast so thank you for your awesome work 🙂🤘🤘⚙️

[@ZainR]

This really resonates with me because hearing some of what Sarah said reminds me of something that happened to me in October with Landmark Forum. It was a virtual meeting and a friend of mine actually invited me to it saying how I may like this because it's about mental health and I advocate for it. So I was like "Sure". I go into the Zoom meeting and there's almost 200 people in this and a few leaders or instructors or whoever. The one who's the main host is carrying the conversation and doing this presentation on what Landmark Forum does and for much of the time I was watching this, it was already unsettling to me just how much the host was smiling. It looked too forced and at the same time, they're trying REALLY hard to sell this idea that what they're doing with these "classes" is going to change your life, you'll be a happy person, you'll never have to go to therapy again. Then we go into assigned breakout rooms and I'm with my friend who also invited a couple of their family members and one other friend. And one of the instructors comes in not long after (I had tech issues so I couldn't speak in that moment) andI remembered this was when my friend was sharing how this place seemed to change his relationship with his dad for the better, so I was intrigued by this. I was under the assumption that over the next hour or two we were all going to learn some sort of mental health exercise that would make us reach some sort of epiphany with ourselves and we'd be so much better off. But we end up back in the main room and the host spends so much time talking about signing up for classes at prices like $500 Canadian dollars (I don't remember the other prices but it was still in the hundreds). That to me just felt off. You're this organization that's been selling this idea that you will provide an answer for us that will change our lives and you're asking for money? I'm one of those people that believes our health is essential and should be free and accessible including mental health. I was already not liking this idea but stayed in the meeting for my friend - until we went back in the breakout room. My tech issues were fixed up and the others were talking about whether or not to join. Some of us had reservations like the costs, being in school or therapy. The instructor came in and I was the first she targeted because I was talking at that moment. I just said it's cool what it's done for my friend and they asked what would be in it for me if I joined. Personally it would be not to internalize things when things are tough and they claimed their classes could solve that and asked if I was ready to join but I still felt too unsure because of how they were selling it and because of the money. I remember at this point they were trying to pressure me to join and I think I atleast told them money was the issue which they seemed like they were willing to adjust for me but then asked what else was holding me back. I didn't want to sound mean and we literally spent 2 minutes in silence as I tried to say this delicately that I couldn't believe what they were saying was true. So after 2 minutes of awkward silence (and my camera was on), the instructor says "How about I help you make up your mind so this can be easy for you to join" and THAT triggered it for me because I grew up with that shit and I said right there and then "Well if I'm going to do anything it has to be MY choice alone" and they backed off and talked to one of my friend's family members. I was kind of shaken having to stand up for myself like this because I generally try to be a kind person but that got to me. And one of the last things I remember in the breakout room was that the family member was being told by the instructor that for years this person went to therapy and they were never happy, basically there was this belief that therapy was supposed to promise you this weird blissful life Landmark Forum was promising. I was actually kind of offended by this because I've never believed therapy was about getting yourself "fixed". It was about working through your shit with healthy coping strategies so nobody (including yourself) can get hurt or negatively affected. Anyways, we end up back in the main room and by this point, after all these things, I was very uncomfortable by the experience and turned off my camera and microphone, took a moment alone to reassess and I felt this was just not right and whatever they're selling, I'm not buying. I'm happy for my friend and whatever they did for him but I'm turned off. And then I just turned off the Zoom meeting. By the time I was leaving, so had about 67 others. And I wondered what these guys were all about and I had a feeling Landmark Forum was a cult and I found several who'd left who had felt this way about it too. On top of it, from the things I had read about them and their groupthink behaviour, Sarah's story reminded me of this.

[@TeeJayNZ]

I went to a weekend seminar too and then a follow up one where I could see people getting sucked in to line up and share their secrets at that moment I thought what a bunch of suckers they all seemed a little brainwashed even after only 3-4 days I can see how it happens now

[@crackers1039]

You should do a blog or podcast. This was told really well.

[@TeeJayNZ]

Me too !!

[@winkipinky]

Yo Michael, I just discovered this channel and I gotta say NICE JOB dude! Love the content!

[@chrisozmcintosh8891]

Not sure how long your show has been back on video Rosey, but THANK YOU for bringing it back! I like the visual.

[@sambo1696]

I didn’t realize she was 25 when she got into it that’s amazing

[@kirstycoulthard]

Wow... What a fantastic episode so open and honest a real eye opener, keep up the good work Michael 😍 I love inside of you podcast can't wait to hear more episodes 💙💙💙

[@HelloNewMoon]

When you find out “Vanguard” was a character from an arcade game Keith used to play with little kids 😬

[@Papas321]

Thank you for keeping all of this in the forefront. People need to know what is happening.

[@jonnysith]

One of the best documentaries I've ever watched. My heart goes out to everyone hurt by the perpetrators.

[@franktaylor595]

Love the new posters 👌👍 I'm officially jealous. I'm going to love watching this one. I've been waiting on this subject to come up. Not my business but still glad you shared. ☮️☯️ And happy Tuesday!

[@silviar.7438]

Michael Rosenbaum is 48 ! Whaaaa... goddamn you aged well. You still look 35 you handsome man you

[@tinawindham6958]

A skinny Chevy chase

[@marcusvalera5406]

A friend of mine told me about this podcast. Probably I'm a little late watching it...but I have to say.......it is great!!! It's 11:PM and I've been listening since 6:00 PM. Totally hooked. Cheers Michael!!!!!!

[@easyalpha1]

Michael and Sarah are good close friends with Kristin Kreuk, I find it great and respectful they kept her name out of this mess. Sarah is one of Kristin’s most forceful defenders backing up Kristin’s public denouncement of NXIVM . Michael in Kristin’s last interview did not include this topic either. I am sure they will talk about it later though after the sentencing is done. So many famous people were caught off guard to what this self help program turned into.

[@finnbalor8021]

As much as some Qanon types like to think she was super deep into NXVIM she really wasnt. Yes she attended some courses locally and some public events and people will site her managerial level within the company (which seems pretty easy to get) but I think her being in demand for work in tv and film and then eventually breaking up with Mark Hilderth who brought her in meant she was never as into it or could be the star recruiter they were hoping

[@loolufun]

It's the truth she is a victim like the others she just left before sex cult and more seedy activity, even if she stayed I can't see her being like Mack or Raniere's groupies.. thank god Sarah didn't have to sleep with that creep. Also KK estrangement decade ago with A Mack says a lot

[@loolufun]

The highest she went was a coach and thousands were coaches too lol there's no there there!