The W140 debate

[@ericgiddio1259]

The W140 I believe was so ahead of its time that today when I'm at the gas station folks hardly believe that the car is 30 years old (the historic number plates here in Australia a giveaway}. I also own a W116, W126 and a W220. While I agree with Pierre that the W126 was the right balance of luxury & styling, the W140 was over engineered & excessive in almost all areas. I've just stripped down a W140 wreck to salvage parts for my car and let me tell you...the billion dollars is very self evident.

[@xmaxbabilo]

I have had two w140 in my life. Both were S320L . First one was totaled in a heavy driver door collision ( any other car i would have had some serious damage. After a long search i found a lovely S320L in blue. I will try my best to take it to the grave. That and my 68 coupe deville. In the end i have to say love was never meant to be easy, its meant to be worth it. Love u still pierre.

[@josephvaldora49]

I just recently sold my ‘99 S320. It was white with a gray interior. Compared to my 300SDL, it felt like a more modern car. Quiet to a fault. Comfortable as any living room. The 126 was less so, but more engaging to be driven. It wasn’t as comfortable, but it has more of a command presence. People would comment about the 126 quite often. The w140 is somewhat more vanilla and got fewer compliments. I was always aware that almost any electrical or especially a HVAC issue would cost more to repair than the car was actually worth. Thankfully, I had very few issues along the way. I sold it to someone in Indiana that wanted to replace his non functioning s320 with one that was presently working. It was bittersweet seeing it go. Yes, I’ve been to Jamie’s shop up in Hackettstown. I’ve lived in NJ for my whole life and never visited hackettstown. It’s a beautiful, town with lots of farms and old buildings. Lots of twisty roads and hills to drive the 126 on after having it attended to by Jamie. He’s got a couple of month wait to get into the shop and he stores all the cars indoors. He does it all, up to complete restoration.

[@binray6457]

love my 95 S500 coupe.

[@dougantelman2369]

Is a 140 like an early digital watch or a flip phone?

[@dariuspringle2608]

Solid analysis, “electronics is the new rust”

[@dougantelman2369]

I guess the question is whether Mercedes will support the car with parts , electronics and diagnostic equipment??

[@Albdentist]

W 124 is the last classic MB Much easier to sort out ..

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

It always excites me when people state that 124's are easier to sort out than other comparable Benz's. 124's & 126's were current when I was a kid & they are a large part in my automotive fascination being what it is. I own, daily, & have sorted a pre facelift C207 chassis with ease due to the internet & of course, OBD II. I DESPERATELY want a 124 asap, but having no experience wrenching on pre OBD II cars has me equally excited & afraid. I just don't see how dealing with any k-jet fuel system can be easier than "modern" port fuel injection or how not being able to view live data on every & anything can be easier than what I have. I do, of course understand all of the excessive electronics I have to deal with as well as a MUCH lesser overall build quality.

[@Albdentist]

Thank you for responding. There is a large online community support for these cars, lots of very knowledgeable people know how to repair and restore these. They do not go unappreciated.

[@classicjalopy]

Interesting video Pierre. Here in Australia good w140 V8’s are now rare and probably sell for similar money to a good 116 450, but less than a 126 v8. The sixes on the other hand seem almost impossible to even give away and I have not seen a nice one for ages. Especially the 280, they all seem to be gone now. We only have a handful in our mB club but the 126 is the second most popular model. We have more roundies than 140s even.

[@ericgiddio1259]

Agree with you. I think overall not too many W140's have survived in Australia. I wonder how many were sold?

[@Mr_CJ_rambo]

The thing about the 140 is that i can drive it for 7hr and not want to stop.

[@TheCardio7]

Hi Pierre .. You’re right , the price and availability of a good w140 are getting to be an issue .. that just tells you there is huge interest in these cars . Although serviceability may be an issue they remain a landmark model like 126 , 116 and 107. In Asia and parts of Middle East they are still highly regarded. You can find mechanics who know these cars well and parts are also available for most. So it remains a favorite nevertheless. May be one day you’ll change your mind 😂. Stay blessed . Always good to see you in these informative videos

[@Tangelos]

Personally, I love my C140 but I have had to deal with several small issues that due to variance in spec and system designs through the life cycle makes DIYs not necessarily relevant as Pierre mentioned.

[@CarharttDADDY]

We enjoy driving our W140-S600 and C140-C420 (Spanish market car no less) and have found our way around maintaining them ourselves and with a local Detroit based service center. When it comes to bank vault feel land yacht they are tough to beat. Now don't get me started on my R129 fetish of a I-6, V-8 and V12 in our summer fleet.....

[@ljetronic]

I’ve had 2 w140s. 97 s420 and a 99 s500. I very intentionally sought clean, well maintained cars. I love the w140 because it represents the last of the traditional, instantly recognizable, slab-sided MB styling. Also, the solid and strong presence these cars deliver through the driving experience and exceptional refinement, for me, make them special. All that said, I didn’t hold onto either of those 140’s for more than a couple years before I was back in a late w126 (where I belong, lol). 140 ownership gives me too much anxiety! There is SO much to go wrong, and I wouldn’t touch a rough one with a 10 foot pole! One thing’s for sure: by being those cars’ caretaker for a moment, I got really good at using the Chinese SDS clone… kept the laptop in the trunk with a tool bag wherever I went…. I do consider a w140 to be a “real” Mercedes, but probably the last of them. I know not everyone agrees, but I feel like when the 220 happened, it was over. Maybe the 210 represents the beginning of the end? I’ve got a ‘98 e300 TD, and I truly love it, but these cars clearly marked the change in trajectory for MB, in my eyes anyway… Pierre, I just have to say, I respect the hell out of you and your opinions. I briefly and awkwardly introduced myself to you and your wife at Amelia this year. I was so impressed with your generosity in giving me, some random guy, a few minutes of your time to talk about old cars. Made my day! I definitely love your technical education videos, and the occasional controversial discussion always makes for good thought provoking entertainment. Keep it coming!

[@atatexan]

Great, objective analysis.

[@beautgrainger147]

I don't get the feeling that Mercedes is really bothered about saving them.. it's not just NLA parts, they seem a bit less active at classic car shows.

[@Jmjdit]

They have been promoting preservation of the models on social media recently. Brabus also has a classic restoration program (without engine/performance modifications).

[@psalm2forliberty577]

Pierre can you begin by stating what years & configuration & engine ootions the w140 was / has ? For the uninitiated watching, I mean. I own a w163 (ML500) & w210 (e320 wagon) but aren't sure regarding details re w140s. Thanks & Merry Christmas

[@Tangelos]

That could be a book in and of itself. There are at least two version of each drivetrain offered (typically going to Coil on Plug ignition in facelift models). In the US at least we have 3.2 M104, 4.2/5L M119, 3L OM606, and the 6L M120.

[@Jmjdit]

This information is readily available online

[@bahar9075]

Just get the last version between 96-99

[@AlienLivesMatter]

W140 was the beginning of a new step into competing with Japanese. Lots of arbitrary changes for changes sake. Less logical interior user interface

[@Jmjdit]

That was the W220. It succeeded in neutralising Lexus throughout most of the globe. Today Lexus sells relatively poorly to their 90s start.

[@Penguinracer]

While the W140 was big for its time, its actually shorter & narrower than the W221 / 222 / 223. It 's slab-sidedness makes it look wider than its successors.

[@jptech57]

I agree with your sentiments on the W140. Could you possibly make a video about the M100 engine and specifically the 450SEL 6.9 regarding parts availability and ownership prospects?

[@glennhansel9411]

After approx 1985 Mercedes sold increasingly less quality and more junk. At least the US spec Mercedes. Used to like the product. Now they are expensive and loaded with cheap plastic. But to anyone who own these, I hope you enjoy them and Mercedes do have a nice ride quality. Owned 126, 123, 124, 129 and 107. Had family that owned previous generations.

[@Jmjdit]

They also charged less and had a growing image problem with their traditional products as far as younger consumers were concerned.

[@glennhansel9411]

@@Jmjdit Agreed, good points. But their new products have poor resale value compared to most other automotive manufacturers,. The original owner takes a huge depreciation hit.

[@charlestimmis273]

In the late 1990s I used to love how the w140 looked more modern compared to the w126. As time passed by, the w140 did not look so good any more.. However the W126 stayed looking timeless... That tells me that the w140 is not a true classic MB....

[@Conradt1996]

Your opinion is not fact

[@charlestimmis273]

@@Conradt1996 never said it was facts.... W140 is too complex to be considered classic....

[@Conradt1996]

@@charlestimmis273again, saying things with such resolution can only be considered an opinion. There are plenty of complex cars that are considered classics by a wide majority of people.

[@christophervieira7977]

I find it a bit funny every time you say how huge w140's are. Compared to a w126 somewhat true. I drive my '99 S500 frequently...pulling up on a "modern" S class feels like driving a sports car by comparison. Firmly in the love W140's camp.

[@Lorenzodemedici12]

How does w140 compare to Lexus ls 460 ??

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

I think you already know the answer to that. No Japanese car will ever provide the overall experience a German car does, & no German car will ever be as reliable as a Japanese car. There is of course always exceptions, but there are also norms.

[@petercollingwood522]

@@RothBeyondTheGrave First statement correct. Second wrong. You need to qualify the years you're talking about. Beacuse way back in the 60's 70's etc, the W108, 114/5. 123 era Jappanese cars were complete crap and do not compare to the same era Mercedes in terms of reliability.

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

@@petercollingwood522 my second statement was a bit vague, but I was referring to a much later period than you did in your second statement. What you said about the 60'-70's cars is absolute fact (I'd throw 80's in there certainly), but around the time of the Lexus LS400 the game completely changed as I'm sure you know. Japanese build quality went through the roof, & the Germans just stopped caring. Of course, that's just a blanket generalization & requires an in depth look regarding the German stuff as it is so nuanced & dependent upon options, chassis, drivetrains, etc. The Japanese stuff has way less nuances & option packages, so it's easier to lump them into one category. Example to summarize: My pre facelift C207 chassis & my sister's end of production W203 are FAR easier to maintain, often cheaper to run, & up til now more reliable than my mom's 3rd gen Acura TL. That is an exception rather than a norm. However, the TL is FAR more forgiving of failures. I often ask, is it indeed reliability/better build quality(on the TL's part), or just extremely forgiving tolerances tailored to average idiots who refuse to do maintenance?! 😂 Perhaps both?

[@xmaxbabilo]

​@@RothBeyondTheGraveboth are better then bmw..which is haram.

[@AlienLivesMatter]

Both of them aged less graceful than w126.

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

OBD II is a Godsend. It is, however a double edged sword in that live data & all information is instantly accessible but it comes with obvious added complexity which is more often than not useless. Especially long term. That said, I'm not sure I can be convinced those older Bosch fuel systems are easier to work on than somewhat modern port fuel injection or sorting out the all encompassing vacuum systems on those cars is even remotely straightforward just to name a few. I think there's more reasons than just ignorance as to why you will never find someone who works on something pre w140. I do my own work, but still have my Benz specialist in my back pocket for the big "just in case". I dream of a w124 or w126, but cannot fathom it being easier to sort than my c207 was.

[@BuiltToRace_com]

MY97 V140 M120 722.6 owner here - absolute brute. The late cars are where it's at, side airbags, 722.6 box, updated ignition. Sold my pre-96 due to harness issues, only gets worse

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

M120, huh? You lucky dog, you hahaha....such a beautiful power plant. I hear a few random bits here & there for them are basically non-existent now? I still wouldn't mind. It's the vehicle of a BOSS!

[@popbahbah4522]

Please l am asking for your opinion, l have a W124 with m102 engine and l am thinking of changing it and get a w210 with a m112 engine , is it a right decision or l will be a big full if I do that, thanks for your help