The White Lotus - Albie's Weird Relationship with Women

[@sarahthompson8098]

Albie's an engaging character (one of many on this show) because he demonstrates nuance in his "nice guy"-ness. He's not an obvious misogynist or even a bad person. He's not an incel. He doesn't turn immediately into a caricature, cursing at women when rejected. He's just more complicated of a character than that. He does want to help others. He is trying desperately to not become his father. But as the show progressed I became increasingly uncomfortable with him, not really able to articulate why, until his weaponized nice-ness and savior complex became more clear. Honestly, brilliantly written and acted character, and this is a brilliant video deconstructing him.

[@adriennethiery5432]

Yes I love the layers of misogyny in this family. When Bert told Ablie "Women are just as bad" (referring to sexual desires and transgressions) it surprised me the character to utter an accidentally feminist remark was the most blatantly old-sexist character because in entertainment characters are usually a tropey to make things simple for storytelling sake. The characters in White Lotus are so realistic they could jump off the screen.

[@morningglory3644]

Albie wants to be the knight in shining armor because he wants that validation from women. He is not a bad guy, he just assumes this is how women want to be treated. Men want to be needed by women, but that may make it look like that women can't take care of themselves. In his mind, he believes he is being a gentleman, when Portia may see him as overbearing or trying too hard.

[@madelynguinn2102]

you articulated exactly how i feel about him!!! i really liked him at the beginning and just slowly felt more and more uncomfy

[@jamaladams7640]

@@adriennethiery5432 it’s not misogyny to cheat on your partner or flirt with the other sex. Is disloyal and dishonest to your partner that anyone or gender can do. It has nothing to do with the hatred of women which misogyny is.

[@sapaulgoogdmen9542]

@@jamaladams7640 that’s not what they were saying…

[@isadoraalves4030]

Albie sacrificing his mother's happiness to manipulate his father to get what he wanted was really sick.

[@demian9715]

I think that's too harsh to say. You say all kind of stuff if you are in love and I can imagine a promise like this made during Holiday could be neglected really fast if they are back in real life and Albie finds out Dominic still cheats on his mum. After all, the Albie we now would probabyl feel just as bad for his mom like he did for Lucia.

[@anne-lottedevries5484]

At the same time, given that he is established as the peace maker, which his own mother says, seems as if both the mom and the dad have relied on this role over the course of his life. Whether you are the one that cheated or you've been cheated on, using your kids to manage these situations is wrong either way. To me it felt like Albie took revenge on his dad, but indirectly also on his mom for making him carry a burden like that since a young age, having to reconcile all parties involved. He feels like he 'deserves' to gain something from the situation after all this time and take back some power. Is it a morally grey thing to do? 100%. But given everything that happens over the days makes it also quite logical right. Albie thought his worth came from his moral high ground, but the series have showed how easily we fall from the pedestal we are on, either put their by others or by ourselves.

[@marianneivaneska2851]

I though so too, it’s really bad to just don’t care about your mom going back in a relationship you have seen her suffering as long as you get what you want, even the fact that he uses his dad misery to manipulate him is sick 🤢

[@AozoraUltra2006]

not really sacrificing his mother's happiness. His mom was not happy. He wanted to make the italian girl happy and his dad is too easy an option not to pass up.

[@laurie8857]

​@Aozotra it could be, as in, his Mum seemed to be holding a solid boundary against his Dad, it didn't seem likely she would reconsider. The Dad will cheat again, that's made very clear, so Albie manipulating Mum into giving Dad another chance means she won't leave, and will get hurt again.. rather than having the freedom to pursue a faithful relationship.

[@MB-ic3ou]

What made me see Albie in a different light and realise what he’s supposed to represent was when Portia was talking to him about her complicated relationship with Tanya and right after she’s done he asks if he can kiss her. The timing is off as Portia is literally talking about something sad but it’s like he wasn’t even listening or didn’t care that the vibe was not right, he just wanted to get what he wanted which was to kiss her.

[@10mimu]

I read that as a savior gesture of sorts

[@rangoooo2312]

I saw it originally as him just being so enthralled by her, that it was sweet…this take is interesting!

[@AphroditePisces96]

I disliked Portia as a character so much that I didn’t even notice how off this was lol

[@dunebuggy1292]

@@AphroditePisces96 It wasn't off at all. This is just the audience reading too deeply and missing the point. Portia was fretting. Albie just went in to sooth with something he thought they both wanted, and Portia actually agreed. She just didn't expect he had the balls to do it.

[@jensendsflowers]

THANK YOU! I saw people on social media saying Albie is sweet and pure and shaming Portia for not going after him immediately... I knew exactly the type of guy he was after that wounded bird comment.

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

Not having watched the show makes this all so mysterious.😂

[@redbluebae4397]

Right?!

[@prod.hxrford3896]

The key here being “people on social media”

[@qwerty-mo6fy]

Yeah even the cast thought of albie as the nicest in the show.!!

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

Wounded bird? Now that's potential for the comment to be very problematic.😬

[@WillowGardener]

I think that because Albie is not explicitly coded as a villain for his "nice guy" routine, and we're shown the complexity of his... uh... complex, we end up seeing ourselves in Albie, which makes it all the more uncomfortable when he does things that are manipulative or coercive. We realize that we all use niceness to coerce and guilt trip people into doing what we want, and Albie forces us to really self-examine about situations in which we consider ourselves a hero.

[@CasualEngineering]

Great point! I agree that analyzing this character can be a good introspective exercise as well. We should be more mindful about our own behaviour and tendencies to manipulate through a certain image we want to create for ourselves.

[@jamiew.6606]

This is a really good observation and would explain why I cringed so hard watching him throughout this season lol.

[@CharlieApples]

Very well said. Agreeableness can have less than selfless intentions. Genuine kindness, as a personality trait, is proven by consistency in one’s actions. You’re kind even when it won’t get you anything.

[@WillowGardener]

@@SacredCASHcow That's not the malicious part. The malicious part is that he was trying to manipulate Portia into a relationship she wasn't interested in.

[@WillowGardener]

@@SacredCASHcow The scene in which he is saving the beach chair for her and she's not interested.

[@withsophia2061]

It's so rare as a woman to see these themes so accurately understood by a male creator. Amazing job, thank you.

[@chanson8508]

✅️

[@Liz.1014]

Absolutely! Hope everyone could have this kind of understanding

[@withsophia2061]

​@THE ZOLDICS I say it is rare for a man to articulate these concepts because in my experience its something that women are very aware of and discuss amongst ourselves, since we are the receivers of this behavior. It's not something men want to face or admit, so your responsibility in your comment does impress me in that sense. When having these kinds of conversations with men, they are quick to deny the toxicity of this behavior and think women just aren't choosing the right men and not seeing the value in these nice guys. I recommend not bringing up the superiority of men throughout history, in any field. These days there's pretty much a consensus that patriarchal systems have repressed women in intellectual spheres for the majority of history so while your statement is true it reads as intentionally sexist.

[@youtubesucks2755]

@@withsophia2061 more men understand the female perspective than women understand male perspective. I’m not saying this to praise men, it’s just something men have to do if they want to not be single. A woman can spend her entire life not understanding the male perspective without any consequences.

[@roven2987]

Think it helps that the creator himself isnt straight

[@JLittleBass]

"The Nice Guy Routine is all about weaponizing guilt for not giving you what you want" 🤣 I love it. Well done, Sir

[@jclyntoledo]

Okay but that sentence reads weird. Wouldn't it be, "the nice guy routine is all about weaponizing guilt for not getting what you want"?!

[@mikebenson9423]

@@jclyntoledo The guilt in the sentence is suppose to emerge from the person who is supposed to "give". You make someone feel guilty, and the "guilty feeling person" not giving what you really want. It's imply. So the correct version of the sentence is : "The Nice Guy Routine is all about weaponizing guilt against women who not giving you what you want"

[@JLittleBass]

@@jclyntoledo You're right, it should be more like, "... weaponizing guilt as a response to the other person not giving you what you want."

[@cavy369]

okay so what if he was just genuinely nice or he was taught to treat women that way and he just doesn't know any better?

[@lubaniskie]

Okay, but Albie doesn't do any of that. If anything, he's a virtue signaler trying to be what he thinks is virtues, ultimately trying to runaway from everything he thinks his father and grandfather are (towards women), but fails spectacularly because its overbearing, unnatural and un-human (no one naturally becomes that way, but is in fact a cultivated persona that's aimed to impress others). He isn't weaponising the ideals of being "a nice guy" and a feminist to make others feel guilty for the ultimate means of getting what he wants, but instead uses the act as a means of making himself believe he is a better alternative to the average guy (because he doesn't exclusively view women as sex objects) and making men like he's father believe they should be ashamed of themselves and their actions. He isn't a nice guy as some malicious, diabolical plot to trick women into sex and alternatively making them feel like they owe him sex when they aren't attracted to him, his whole get-up is rooted in childhood trauma and a try-hard attitude towards morality and righteousness. He isn't some mastermind in manipulation, he himself is a victim of his own warped beliefs.

[@abomb899]

“I’ll save you from the toxicity of other men, but not from my own” that’s the character in a nutshell

[@nappyfries]

That sounds like my ex lol

[@AngieSweet]

It should not be forgotten that Albie didn't just help Lucia to "guarantee" a girlfriend. He did it at the cost of begging his mother to return to his father, who is addicted to sex and unfaithful. Albie knows that Dominic hasn't changed and hasn't given any guarantees that he will either. But he helped Dominic to get what he selfishly wanted despite seeing all the suffering his father caused his mother and his sister. It's clear that Dominic wants to change but he doesn't actively do anything to do so. Great analysis! Albie is one of the interesting characters because he acts so subtly!

[@samatar6852]

I don't get why i see this point being repeated so often with the mother thing. People don't realise that Albie did not see or realise what his father was up to during the vacation like the audience did. All he was his dad mope around for a week and unsubtly keep asking him about his mother. So from his point of view his dad did seem to genuinely feel bad which is why he already talked to his mom before his dad even gave him any money. Albie still cares about his dad at the end of the day even if he doesn't always buy his bs.

[@dymoonbp7310]

@@samatar6852 but he says it. Even if he doesn’t know exactly what dominic did, he sees his dad never changed and it’s not doing anything to really change. He tells him that everytime they see each other. He has clear his father won’t change, and still he lied. That’s why he asked for something in exchange. If he thought his dad really changed it, he would’ve done it anyway (without the money), but he did it that way because he knows he is lying. And he says it…

[@dymoonbp7310]

@@samatar6852 but he says it. Even if he doesn’t know exactly what dominic did, he sees his dad never changed and it’s not doing anything to really change. He tells him that everytime they see each other. He has clear his father won’t change, and still he lied. That’s why he asked for something in exchange. If he thought his dad really changed it, he would’ve done it anyway (without the money), but he did it that way because he knows he is lying. And he says it…

[@smita568]

@@samatar6852 um and i don't get the point of everyone ignoring how Dominic actually did feel bad and made active efforts to do better- we see him looking at their family picture, essentially grieving their presence. We see him trying to apologise to his wife. He decided to not engage with Mia and Lucia after a certain point, and never mistreated them during or after the affair. At the end he only wanted a chance at being better in his wife's eyes. He was prolly the only character, I totally rooted for to get the best- which he did. I mean Lucia getting the money and Albie not getting her in return, and then Dominic getting his 'last chance' out of this deal, all at once, just felt like the most appropriate thing ever.

[@AngieSweet]

@@dymoonbp7310 Exactly. Albie even told his father that he "can't buy people" and Dominic didn't even care. I know Albie loves his father but that can't be compared to watching his mother suffer for a man. There are situations where you can't be neutral, like Albie wants.

[@Sam-0827]

It’s characters like Albie and the Di Grasso family have such layered toxicity and even genuine moments - that elevate the second season of white lotus compared to season 1

[@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult]

I mean, season 1 also had some of layered toxicity like the teenage girls. Although I agree season 2 characters are more complex.

[@dimitaru.8408]

Honestly the Di Grasso family gives the best characters in the series. They are all so complex and hilarious at the same time.

[@Sam-0827]

@@dimitaru.8408 period

[@andreacigala2709]

I loved to see the comparison between three generations of men, where you can see how society and their way of communicating has (at least superficially) changed but they're all still built on a patriarchal base

[@anandadaquino3604]

@@dimitaru.8408 100%

[@obidmeano9929]

“Romantic instincts are selfish” powerful phrase

[@galek75]

That's not a bad thing

[@claudiadurand-cg2tr]

@@galek75 It can be if the other person is uninterested but you, regardless, follow those romantic instincts. It insinuates what that person feels doesn't matter in comparison to how you feel.

[@32Theresa]

I would’ve loved to have seen Albie’s reaction to Lucia also having been w/ his dad 💀

[@theorderofthebees7308]

Right !

[@huntshunts]

There was so much tension but nothing ever came of it. I feel like that would’ve hurt Alvie more than Lucia using him for the 50K

[@MrSandman_0981]

I was waiting for that scene but it never came

[@tinymxnticore]

This is great because it highlights that the “nice guy” routine can be *unintentionally* manipulative! Just because you have the best intentions doesn’t mean you lack the ability to make women just as uncomfortable and trapped as any douchebag.

[@jeffersonhassan4558]

Yet the women will still choose the douchebag like Portia did

[@aniekanakai]

what is one to do when they are being "unintentionally manipulative" esp if they are not getting any feedback of the discomfort they are causing?

[@tinymxnticore]

@@aniekanakai introspection

[@harlottebronte]

@@jeffersonhassan4558 Portia is a fictional character on a tv show who is literally written to be unlikeable, Jefferson. you need to get your head out of your @ss and stop trying to pretend that any unlikeable (or even likeable!) female character represents all women. you know why women don't choose you? because you say stupid, misogynistic shit like this. *you* are the douchebag, hon.

[@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult]

@@aniekanakai they are probably getting feedback, but on the form of body language, etc. They just need to get a hint.

[@meganelise277]

Yes! I’ve been in so many situations like that, and you don’t want to be mean or hurt their feelings, but it’s all a bit cringe and smothering. When a guy puts you on a high pedestal like that, it makes you feel like he doesn’t really see YOU, just an idealized fantasy.

[@mementomoray]

Exactly, putting them up on a pedestal in a way strips their agency in his eyes away. Ironically, thinking Lucia wouldn't be capable of manipulation/cruelty is patronizing and a bit dehumanizing-women are much more complicated than perfect goddesses

[@laurie_guilbeau]

I had an experience with a guy like that. He thought that because he was nice I should like him. When I told him I didn't, he asked me why. I was like, "I just don't. There aren't reasons for why you are attracted to or not attracted to a person." He said there had to be a reason. He'd also guilt trip me for not liking him.

[@sassycaterpillar6631]

@Laurie Guilbeau to be fair, there usually is a reason. It's just that people don't want to share it because they think it'd be mean. I've told a friend of mine straight up "i don't want to be rude, and to be honest, this is probably not even an issue with anyone else, but I dont like your nose." At least this is my experience... then again, I'm more self-aware than most people in the dating world. (I understand me saying this comes off as condescending, but I'd be lying if I didn't mention it). I think at the end of the day a lot of people don't want to have uncomfortable conversations and they'd rather just deal with the aftermath of ghosting someone or not explaining anything.

[@laurie_guilbeau]

@@sassycaterpillar6631 Right, but when I told him there wasn't a reason he wouldn't accept that. Which is at the least rude and at the most crazy. It's either the case that I'm lying and there is a reason and I don't want to say it, in which case he's rude to push me to say it anyway or it's the case that there isn't a reason and he believes there is one.

[@sassycaterpillar6631]

@Laurie Guilbeau fair enough. I personally know why I don't like things and people, but if that doesn't apply to you, then I agree that it's rude that he pushed it

[@eduardamedeiros3570]

I do think a couple of times he's just being polite. He's polite with everyone. What makes him a creep is mostly his fetish with "wounded birds" and how he needs to save women and be the solution. But a couple of the gestures you've read as "creep" behavior, I'm sure he would do it with most people. Not just for sex.

[@Lark1610]

Yes, I have two issues with this analysis. One: we mostly learn about Albie through his relationships with his family where we often are a very particular version of ourselves and through relationships with women, and a very distinctive version of that relationship that is summer romance. Second issue I have is a lack of analysis of Portia's behaviour. When he tells her about the chair he's not only trying to manipulate her with guilt. They agreed to meet there, as far as I remember. Portia is not that open with Albie, she keeps him as a spare wheel if she couldn't find anyone else. She takes Albie for granted, the dynamic changes once Albie finds another woman. And let's not forget they're all very young people. They still learn.

[@sassycaterpillar6631]

Yeah, this seems like more of a psychoanalysis of Albie's behavior through the lens of "creep." I dont think he's "weaponizing guilt to get what he wants," as much as he's been taught that those behaviors would be rewarded by the stereotypical feminist rhetoric, so when he gets frustrated it's a natural response to being mislead. I find that in any analysis of "nice guys," it neglects to mention this and often times just frames it from a detached lens already leading you to the predefined outcome.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

I wouldn't call it a fetish, but it's something he's attracted to. Like how Tanya likes terrible men, it's not a fetish, but there's something deeper. I actually love how Valentina ended up being the incel and literally no one talks about it. It shows a blindspot people have for when women behave in certain ways that don't fit with our preconceived notions.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

@Sassy Caterpillar yeah I feel like they hint how some of the behavior is learned in college where he's doing the self righteous speech about why men love the godfather. Also he has this weird feminist reverenc for women where even the prostitutes must have been forced into this lifestyle because they're helplesd women and his grandfather has to remind him "women are just like you and me"

[@janedashwood2018]

@@Aaron-kj8dv I think being drawn to terrible people stems from low self esteem. If you think you are not so great, you gravitate toward people who will need you.

[@ThunderTaker1215]

Now I need a deep dive on every single character, especially Daphne. Thank you for this.

[@youtubez7580]

Please analyze daphne ❤🎉

[@carpeXnoctem12]

God damn Daphne is so interesting. She's sold off all her morals for lifestyle. She's well aware of the situation she's in but forces delusion so she can be happy. The actress did such an incredible job portraying the complexity of the character.

[@josephforte8736]

Daphne rules lol

[@adamsteiner7352]

@@carpeXnoctem12 her acting was crazy. that scene about her trainer tho…

[@theorderofthebees7308]

There are so many people that feel like Daphne’ is #goals and I wonder did we watch the same show

[@_ericescobedo]

Most of my life I’ve been someone like Albie. Been rejected, played, etc. due to my naive nature and disingenuous behavior. Not proud of it, but can’t change the past. In recent years I’ve adjusted my approach with interacting with people and women in particular to a more healthy and mature way with abundance and dignity, though admittedly I’m still breaking free from old “nice guy” habits. Nonetheless I’ve come a long way. Not gonna go out of my way and call Albie’s character a bad person, but it’s definitely flawed and can be grown out of. When I watched him on the show, I saw myself and it was painful. I knew what he was doing and was not surprised by the outcome of him getting played. Thank you for this video essay!

[@Bufnnddfio]

What have you done to change and grow

[@carlosdanger8043]

None of our business.

[@pinkblossoms]

@@BufnnddfioIdk just grow. Alvie’s not a bad person. I was also in love with the idea of love when I was a bit younger.

[@akiltircuit7515]

@@Bufnnddfio therapy for me

[@NoThing-wc3cs]

@@Bufnnddfio for me it's currently to be completely honest with myself and not running away from my emotions. Not easy, but needed.

[@marisacarreon2660]

This video essay on Albie's character flaw reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite shows, Psych: "You treat a woman like a person, then a princess, then a Greek Goddess, then a person again." Albie forgets to treat women like people, and Portia and Lucia are people who aren't perfect. What I love about the White Lotus is that all the characters are flawed to a degree. Albie projects this image of himself being above it all, when really he is just as flawed as the others.

[@soeusei26]

Albie deserved what Lucia did to him. He needed a good lesson and to be thrown off the "nice guy" pedestal he put himself on.

[@CovaCata]

M😅uh ni i😢

[@JLittleBass]

Lol yeah, too bad it was his dad who paid for that lesson 😂

[@bikis951]

Albie is the archetype of the woke man, lord of the soy boy.

[@14DANESSJ]

@@bikis951 borderline incel*

[@yahmicah4294]

I think it was more circumstantial that he managed to get brains and a ride. He def learned a lesson tho.

[@thelouisjohnson]

Love the mention of validation. These guys aren't looking to actively control women (although that may be the unintentional result), they're just unwilling to admit how controlled by them they are. As much as they want genuine love, they are ultimately resentful of that love because deep down they are aware of how much it controls them. That resentment leads to the desire (and motivation) to carry out more manipulative actions. It's not purely seeking pleasure per-say, it's avoiding pain. I remember an interview with Mike White (writer/director) where he explained that this season was about how sexual politics can get in the way of us really getting to know each other. Desires and pleasures, whilst validating and enjoyable, can also carry some nasty undertones that get in the way of healthy human connection. I feel that underlying resentment goes a long way to explain all the Sigma, Hustle, MGTOW and Incel trends we see today. It's so not that men want to reject women or hate them (although again, it can end up appearing as the result), they need them too much. It's unsurprising to me that some men would rather be manipulative or overtly-distant, because of the pain that facing up to the need for real connection would bring. It's hard to face up to being alone, or to genuine feelings of wanting to share life with someone. Especially with social media and the access we have to all the wonderful success stories (or apparent stories) in love. You desperately want a piece of that for yourself but it doesn't just 'happen'. Drowning out feelings of aloneness is far easier than accepting them because accepting them means accepting ourselves and deeper fears of aloneness and lacking connection. Which as a man socially, can also lead to feeling that you're not good enough or that you've (thus far) failed in love. It can be very tempting to want to feel rotten (i.e. manipulative) and included, than healthy and alone.

[@Burlesqueteers]

Great observation, you should read up on the research on male loneliness and isolation, and how that is at least partly (or mostly?) related to old male ideals. Tough, individualistic, stoic, don't show emotions, take it all on my own- and women being the only people that they can and do express their vulnerable, emotional selves to. This is why men need women way more than women need men. Women find support among each other. Men realizing they need women so much can and does create this resentment you speak of, it opens their eyes to how much they are controlled by it. It actually threatens their self-image/identity if they are holding on to those old ideals regarding masculinity.

[@MrSandman_0981]

I thought women were the emotional ones

[@ilikepancakes2368]

Love makes you vulnerable so when men get hurt by it, they become monsters. These sigmas are just men coping with their pain.

[@jamiew.6606]

LOVE this analysis. It was that last scene that really let me know Albie is going to turn out similarly to his dad and grandpa. Maybe that was not meant to be the takeaway, but that's what I got from that scene with the girl walking past. I laughed so loud at that lol.

[@user-bl3tu5us6b]

I do not quite get that scene: is not it natural for most men to look at beautiful girls?

[@jamiew.6606]

@@user-bl3tu5us6b I think what stood out was the way they all seemed to lust after the beautiful woman. Most men would look at a beautiful woman, but not every man breaks his neck to get a better look.

[@florenciabustos6531]

@@user-bl3tu5us6b In a previous scene, at the pool, a beautiful woman in a bikini walked past Albie and he didn't pay attention to her. This was before his "nice guy" persona didn't work for him. I think that's why the last scene is so powerful: he tried to convince himself he was not like the other men in the family but they still all reacted the same in the end.

[@claralite]

@@user-bl3tu5us6b it’s important to remember that everything you see on screen is put there for a reason. there’s a reason that albie was shown mirroring the reactions of his father and grandfather in that scripted moment and it’s probably not because the filmmaker thought “hey, let’s add a pretty woman into this scene and make the di grasso guys ogle at her, to show that it’s natural for men to look at a pretty woman.”

[@sujalbageriya2619]

You are seriously underrated man. Your analysis is really good and easy to follow. Love your work and appreciate the effort behind these videos 👏

[@cliffbooth4826]

yup.. this guy is so smart with human behaviour.. he must be a psychologist or something.

[@ezwinner69420]

I just assumed he was going to end up like his father and grandfather. They know how naive he is.

[@KainyStyle]

Probably worst.

[@samf.s.7731]

I liked the whole "pretty woman irl" re-enactment in this plotline. He genuinely thinks he should be a modern day white knight or fairytale prince. Again, he's not unlikeable which made this fascinating to watch. I think the Di Grassos had my favorite B plotlines for this season. Although, one could argue that TWL is a true ensemble piece.

[@joshblack9182]

Great analysis. You highlighted dimensions of the character's behaviour that were so subtle they could be easily overlooked, although still registered subconsciously.

[@ruthk618]

This is a really interesting breakdown of the 'nice guy' phenomenon. It's kind of a tired trope at this stage, there have been so many interpretations of it and it has been weaponised against women so much - incels come first and foremost to mind. But this explanation of it is the one that rings most true to me. As a woman, it can be hard to discern the well-meaning, naive nice guys from the ones who are using that persona as a manipulative strategy, but you've suggested that those two can coexist in the same person and that it's really more useful and realistic to think of it as more of a spectrum of behaviours and motivations rather than assuming there are 'real' nice guys and 'fake' ones. Very thought provoking, thanks!

[@youtubesucks2755]

all of this would disappear if women started putting even half of the effort men put in starting a relationship. It’s pretty easy to judge half of the population when all you have to do is sit back and relax. Let’s see how it feels when men start over analysing the way women ‘approach’ men. But I guess it’ll never happen because being hate being judged and putting themselves out there.

[@ruthk618]

@@youtubesucks2755 my comment was all about aporeciating the fact that people are too complex for a simple men are like this and women are like that two-column classification. Women aren't all the same and neither are men. I am in the process of trying to get a relationship going with a guy, I know he fancies me but he's resisting and I'm pursuing! Nothing in life is black and white, people often defy broad-strokes categorisation, and you do yourself a disservice if you limit your worldview to simplistic tropes. "Women" is four billion people. "Women" dont do anything as a group.

[@youtubesucks2755]

@@ruthk618 When it happens is 99.99% of the cases, it falls under 2 column classification. Focusing on exceptions doesn’t help anyone. So I’m sorry to say but it’s pretty much black and white at this point.

[@tijan8948]

But Portia was not trapped, she just went with the bad boy as young women are often and predictably prone to do. She rejected the nice guy and basically pushed him into the arms of the worldly prostitute. This is as old as history. Women feel trapped by social expectations of marriage to a stable nice individual and want to experience the wild side , naively, until they see the real deal. Ultimately they look to marry the safe guy, who has been jaded by years of resentment and rejection. Its a redicoulus dance, only managed by allowing young people to make their mistakes with limited harm. And for the young men, the women want older and more dominant men, so simping makes no difference. They should forget about sex and go on adventures or something until they are older and more attractive to women.

[@ruthk618]

@@youtubesucks2755 what are you basing your 99.99% claim on? You sound very naive. You're only talking about your experience and anecdotal evidence which in the grand scheme of things is very limited. Insisting on maintaining a worldview based on naive simplistic stereotypes will not get you anywhere with women. Try for a bit of nuance in your thinking.

[@misselnora]

Wow, watching this really was such a relief! Putting these uncomfortable feelings into words can be so hard sometimes. And you can easily brush it off with "but look how nice he is"

[@ammouringammouring2695]

I like how you pointed out that, even though his intention of being ultra respectful of the women he's dating is good, at a certain point it comes across as condescending. Definitely a balance!

[@deeobrien5417]

Jesus this is giving me nightmares, and honestly starts off “nice” but very quickly is manipulative and controlling in a way it’s hard to get out of causing a lot of anxiety and feeling stuck

[@bruh_hahaha]

People are not all or nothing. We are a range of good and bad. That what make the writing in The White Lotus so brilliant. None of the characters are ever ‘one’ thing.

[@djrosepark]

Omg! I had someone like Albie in my life. I always thought something was off or weird during our conversations. Thank you for telling his side of the story.

[@KainyStyle]

Better to stay away from self proclaimed nice guys as well as self proclaimed douchebags ;) they usually come from the same traumas.

[@henry-yx8pn]

Damn, the script, the insight, the social commentary within the political context is all on point! This is an excellent video essay!

[@CharlieApples]

This is a phenomenal analysis, and it’s so refreshing to hear this kind of critique from a man, as well. These days it’s all too common to hear men on KZbin support this kind of manipulative and frankly creepy behavior, excusing it as “he’s trying his best!” …Which itself is a tactical guilt trip. Women are so often expected to be kind and considerate towards men, no matter how rude or invasive or condescending they’re being. We’re not supposed to say no, or make them feel bad. Which can feel like tiptoeing through a minefield, never knowing if the next guy you encounter is going to be safe or dangerous.

[@ellong]

What's really interesting is that Albie is doing all these things subconsciously, which seems to be the reason to why there's so much debate about Albie.

[@michelleweiss2333]

I think the critiques on Albi are fair, but the video is a little too harsh on him. He is young and clearly trying. And that he is trying is SO important compared to most of the other men in this series. To say that because he falls short of his own ideals means that he's not actually a nice guy isn't fair. Sure, he isn't as nice as he thinks he is. And sure, he is subtly, and unsuccessfully, trying to manipulate women into being with him. But he is definitely not a creep. Albi definitely cares, he's just young, inexperienced, and lacks some self-awareness. These are insufficiencies that all people have, even nice ones. And literally everyone tries to manipulate others in their own ways - and frequently subconsciously. That doesn't mean that they can't still be mostly nice.

[@JLittleBass]

I think the question has to be asked: What does "nice" really mean? I agree with you that it's good that he's trying to have good relationships with women. If anything, maybe he needs to learn some humility and be realistic about his wants and needs, rather than thinking he can make a good relationship with whatever woman he meets happen by sheer will.

[@melvv18]

We really need to have better expectations of men, if Albie making superficial gestures and proclamations is trying. Albie might talk big game, but he lacks empathy and still feels entitled to women's attention just because he doesn't see himself as bad as his father and grandfather. I don't see him as a bad person, but then again, he was willing to manipulate his mom into reconciliating with his cheating father.

[@Ray03595]

@@melvv18 you’re not really rebutting their point though. Albie is still getting so much heat because he isn’t living up to his impossible expectations. To a large degree he does believe Lucia is in actual danger. He’s not just manipulating his mother just to have a sexual relationship. He does care about Lucia beyond just wanting to have a girlfriend. He’s not a bad person for making poor decisions. He’s human and will never be able to satisfy every person in his life which is something he just needs to learn. And giving Lucia tons of money so she doesn’t get abused is not a “superficial proclamation” so I disagree there. I think a part of him knew he was getting played, but he just didn’t want to do the “wrong thing”. Learned a good lesson that a real relationship means dealing with some messy stuff as well and not all women are angels that need saving. Again, just makes him flawed like every other character, and doesn’t disqualify him as a genuinely nice guy.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

Whats funny is if anyone is "the nice guy" it's Valentina and it's completely overlooked because it's a woman behaving in a way we expect a man to behave. I find it fascinating because they definitely set him on the tracks to be a nice guy but really he ended up being a dumb kid who got played. I think once people labeled him they can't unlabel him unless there's a drastic change in his behavior.

[@CobraDove1111]

Covert narcs will have a field day with you

[@akiltircuit7515]

This makes me so sad because I feel like Albie. My father had the same issues with women/ my mother and being 28 I’m seeing how that is affecting my relationship and thoughts about women. I’ve gone to therapy but I still feel dread that I’ll be just like my Dad. 😔

[@tayloriguess7978]

trying to not be like your parents backfires. just do what feels natural and stay in therapy.

[@davecullins1606]

I think you won't become like him if you just stay self-aware during the entire process, and getting therapy will definitely also help.

[@CobraDove1111]

Dont be a nice guy. Be authentic, honest and yourself.

[@demian9715]

You did the first step with realizing it :)

[@bluetears2]

Recognition is the first step, now that you see it you can fix it. You won’t end up like your dad.

[@TedsonJones]

When Portia and Albie reconnected at the end, it seemed like both were a bit older and wiser. Albie had learned the hard way that women are not all saints who need rescuing. Portia had experienced the adventure and craziness that she craved and had perhaps realised she would be happier with a quiet life and a more boring, sensible man.

[@ciaran3376]

I started watching white lotus because of your last video. I remember thinking, I wish he did a video on Albie, so thank you for reading my mind!

[@farlie.2157]

I have found it so hard to put this kind of male character into words. You did it so well. Thank you.

[@pinkstrad]

I thought it was interesting how he said “I refuse to have a bad relationship with women” instead of “I refuse to have bad relationships with women” or “I refuse to have bad romantic relationships.” Weird thing to say when an individual is sitting in front of you. My takeaway from the show was that Albie didn’t *do* anything particularly egregious in the events of the show, but built out the character enough that we could figure out he may be capable of some toxic stuff.

[@KainyStyle]

Yeah, he is in the beginning of his toxic journey and now he has an excuse of the 50k event to explain all the bad actions he is about to make to himself, because "all women are...".

[@anthem6156]

As a woman, I'm impressed how a man is capable of this type of in-depth relationship analysis. Good job!

[@dr.wolfstar1765]

Hahha cuz men can't think no good?

[@widowswail888]

Any enlightened person (man or woman) can easily spot bullshit from a mile away lol. But I get what you mean though.

[@MrSandman_0981]

​@@dr.wolfstar1765 It's not that they can't, it's that they generally don't care. The White Lotus is typically a show who's for a female audience.

[@melvv18]

I don't think Albie is naive, as much as he is foolish. I don't think he's a bad person, but he's not this innocent cinnamon roll that people want to paint him as. For all his dissapointment that Portia rejected him, he move on quickly to Lucia and got excited at the notion of rescuing her from SW. He got so excited, that he was willing to manipulate his mom into getting back with his dad, knowing full well he wasn't going to change. He has a lot to change, if he truly wants to live to the belief that he respect women.

[@juliacox6036]

Completely agree. I read Albie as a “woke idiot”. His character / personality was the most annoying to me.

[@rickson50]

He saw his dad genuinely remorseful and trying to change. That's what albie wanted. Only after albie see that was he willing to give his blessing. It looks like he was going to anyways once he saw it. The money was manipulating his dad

[@melvv18]

@@rickson50 If Albie really believed that his father truly change, he would've done it voluntarily. The fact that he asked for money in exchange for his cooperation proves that. As for Dominick, him feeling like shit, is not the same as actually changing. If he really truly was, he would not be willing to use Albie to convince her. Also, like what really change in him? The first thing he did was hire SWs, and then spend the rest of trip blaming his father, for his own choices. That's not taking responsibility, that just excuses.

[@alflundgren8138]

I mean, he was disappointed for sure, but it's not like he was in love with her. They barely knew each other. Who isn't disappointed when a possible romance doesn't work out. I don't think it's odd or wrong to move on quickly from someone you've only known for a few days.

[@theromalepe8600]

I see where this video is coming from with regards to Albie's behaviour but I can't help feel like this analysis makes him seem evil in his naivety. To me this video highlights the obstacles of being a romantic pursuer in today's dating market. The pursuer is burdened with not being reckless in their approach and leaving a trail of harassment or coercion in their wake or being the "nice guy" and still being coercive to whomever is being pursued even if there is no intention from the pursuer to be coercive.

[@justarandom-m3w]

I think the issue stems more from not being honest with oneself and by extension others. Albie doesn't know how to deal with his desires and what he really wants. It makes him act in ways that he thinks might be appropriate but also lead to some degree of unintentional manipulation because he's not being direct. It's not like it's impossible to be upfront about your desires, act in ways that come to you naturally and still find someone. Though it may be hard to strike a balance without a certain level of experience or self-assurance? His own assumptions about what women want, need or deserve based on his past experiences and his performative politeness hold him back. I think he just sees Portia as eligible or potentially available and doesn't seem too concerned with actually getting to know her or accepting that she knows what she needs. He may even be projecting because he himself probably hasn't really figured out what kind of person he is. She seems a little lost and he probably is too, as a young person stepping out after COVID. The fear of making his father or grandfather's mistakes has distracted him from the new ones he's making. Ignorance can make people seem insensitive.

[@domsadventure]

Definitely one of greatest series ever made! It's so cleverly written! I like how the grandpa, dad, and Albie represents the evolution of social conventions in regard to women. Grandpa is unhinged, will flirt every woman he meets. Clearly shows how society used to be at his time. He shows not even an ounce of internal conflict regarding to his behavior. His son even said in the end that he's deluded thinking that his wife loves him and that he wasn't as discreet as he thinks he is, and his wife suffered in silence. Dad is embarrassed with that attitude, so he's not like that. He's polite and treats women with (more) respects (than his father). However, when it comes to sex addiction, he couldn't help it. It's ruining his marriage. He wants to change, and we can see that he's suffering from it. Now with Albie, a portrayal of current generation of men. He's progressive and treats woman with respects, probably coming from his education. He's embarrassed by his grandpa, also dislikes his father for cheating. He even said that he refuses to have bad relationship. Probably stemming from that. However, he internalized social convention too much that it's cockblocking his romantic relationship. He's too nice. By putting women in a pedestal, he came out condescending and make them uncomfortable. As the show progresses, we can see his confusion. What society or woman in particular, wants from him. Should he be noble, or should he be carnal? He tried to be a little aggressive, but since it's out of his character, it came a little awkward. He gradually discovers what he truly is and what he wants. I don't think he's a fake nice person as people generally believe. I think he's just young, naive, inexperienced guy whose education eclipses (or on his grandpa's term, "brainwash") his natural desire. It's so funny that in the end, all three generation of them are leering at the same attractive woman. Men will always be men. What makes the show so clever to me, is that there's no role model. There's no ideal person. Just people trying to cope with human condition that can't be sanitized with any moral standard no matter how evolved our society is. Ethan and Harper who have seemingly grounded and normal relationship turned out to be shaky, unhappy, and unfulfilled. Ethan is in a way similar to Albie. He prides himself for being faithful and he is, until he thinks that Harper betrayed him. Daphne and Cameron have a great relationship at the price of Daphne tolerating Cameron's sexual behavior. She refuses to be the victim on the relationship by gaslighting herself, in contrast to Albie's mom.

[@kronos1794]

I felt bad for him, the dude basically neutered himself trying to be better than his dad but in doing so made himself doomed to being either a sucker or friend zoned. I didn't necessarily see his actions as malicious, just a helpless attempt to pursue a girl in the least problematic way. It basically resulted in the few times he asserted himself come off as fake nice manipulation. It's the dance of being nice but not too nice and being bold but not too bold. The ratio is basically impossible to figure put person to person and it leads to tons of pain along the way.

[@acrux739]

yes

[@Atanatari165]

Its not really that difficult. The key is to focus on entertaining the woman, not manipulating them. You don't say "I think you could aim higher" (I'm a better fit for you) or anything like that. You need to let your personality speak for itself. The mistake both Ethan and Albie make is they try to argue their way to success with women, it just doesn't work like that. Relationships are about making the other person comfortable and happy, not about winning debates.

[@MrSandman_0981]

I disagree. Albie is very selfish, the scene where he asks for money shows it.

[@kronos1794]

@@MrSandman_0981 Except he was asking for the money believing it was for a decent cause and he was extorting it from someone he saw a a villain.

[@Outliers4Life]

this video is insanely well written dude

[@ayeelaura]

You've brilliantly articulated something I could never quite explain in my experiences with some guys including undercover "friends" with agendas under the nice guy act😂

[@damapayne]

brilliant video! i started to get that weird nice guy vibe from albie in that dinner scene (5:40) where he says something about women choosing the ‘wrong’ and ‘bad’ guys. you described him perfectly, and it makes even more sense when you have actually met a guy like this in real life. very clear patterns that young men nowadays can fall very easy into, thinking they’re better than their fathers and grandfathers but repeating the same coercive behavior with their saviour complex, which just comes off as fake, simplistic naive. i think mike white did an excellent job turning this common phenomenon into a complex and engaging character!

[@Atanatari165]

At the end of the day men are still hardwired to desire sex, and they will do whatever it takes to get it. The strategies evolve with each generation but the end goal is the same.

[@yanggang7]

Ok, I agree that Alvie is definitely annoying and off-putting for his nice guy, savior complex thing, but I actually think some of this analysis is a bit overly harsh toward him. For example when he interrupts Portia’s convo with the British dude to tell her he saved her a seat, that wasn’t him saying “hey, I did a nice thing for you, reward me”, that was him saying “hey you agreed to meet me for this date, and you’re standing me up”. Now could he (and should he) have used his words and just said how he really felt instead of being “nice”? Of course. But the same thing is true of Portia who should have used her words to just reject him, rather than stringing him along and keeping him in her back pocket for when she got tired of the other guy.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

Yeah people see him as toxic and conniving where really it's more awkward and weird

[@chisomo8088]

@@Aaron-kj8dv he is toxic. Just not in an obvious way. It’s not even obvious to him, cause he seems to genuinely not know that his behavior comes across that way. He thinks he’s “saving” women. And yet he was so quick to throw his mother back to his weak father because he wanted to “save” a girl he just met. If that in itself isn’t toxic, I don’t know what is. That last part really showed that all he had been doing before, even the subtle things, shouldn’t just be ignored and passed off as ‘awkward’.

[@miljoy91]

Really interesting breakdown of the 'nice guy' trope. So interesting that his behaviour has effects and motives that even he doesn't fully understand

[@goldenoreo6699]

I would agree with much of this and his attitude in regards to Portia, but this doesn't work in the end because Portia does end up with Albie. Both Albie and Portia were insufferable, but ironically were perfect for each other. They both thought they got what they wanted: Albie a seemingly wounded bird, and Portia her own personal Tarzan, but neither were happy with the reality. Lucia was not a wounded bird in the slightest and instead was a very competent and capable business woman. Jack turned out to have a tragic backstory and was more of the wounded bird type. Both Albie and Portia ended up getting played, and either lost money, or are now witness to criminal activities and their previous paramours ran off. I think the show was trying to show that people should be happy with what's in front of them and not chase after a fantasy when it comes to relationships as it is never how one expects it to turn out.

[@BiteMeDork321]

This was insanely spot on about the “nice guy”. Great articulation.

[@msnicoleleeee314]

I was watching the show and I knew the show is telling me Albie isn’t the sweet gentle boy he presented himself but I couldn’t fully understand why, this character is extremely nuanced and depicted a new type of “nice guy” in our generation, thanks for breaking this down for us! He isn’t a straight up bad, morally questionable guy as explicitly as his father, but he’s more real that way , like a real person who’s try to be good but just as flawed and selfish at the same time

[@mrjonsey]

Thank you. These dudes just wanna dismiss Albie as sensitive and weak.

[@Daniel-tx2vt]

@@mrjonsey He is weak.

[@michaelahurt]

Excellent analysis. Truly. This should be required watching for all boys in late elementary school. And everyone for that matter. One note, though. You at times seem to frame Albie's behavior as conscious. You will say it's subconscious, then call it a 'nice guy act' or say the 'nice guy routine is about weaponizing guilt' -- that makes it sound intentional. Like he's a sociopath playing this role as a means to an end. It would be more accurate to say something like 'being a 'nice guy' often has the unintended effect of weaponizing guilt'. Just an inconsistency in tone.

[@Looopita]

My issue with Albie is that he continued to have sex with the girl knowing how detrimental and horrible she must have felt having to always have sex to make a living. If he really wanted to get to know her and wanted more he shouldn’t have been so concerned with sex. I think he wanted to pay her to be with him sort of and was mad when she went her way. He wanted to not be like his father but at the end when you saw all the 3 men ( grandfather, father and son) look at the woman that passed by it was clear the writer wanted to show the generational curse of lust and womanizing these 3 have. Even tho albie didn’t want to abuse women by cheating etc he wanted to take advantage bc of his elite status and sort of buy a woman. He seemed to have low self esteem to me and seemed desperate and most likely why Portia wasn’t interested plus he didn’t have that bad boy edge she was looking for. Albie justa spoiled rich kid who thinks he can have anything he wants if he asks daddy for help. He wasn’t too concerned for the 50K his father lost

[@inquisitivesoul3618]

Men are sex driven creatures, this is an uncomfortable truth many women like yourself don't understand. What makes men sexually attractive to women is a man's looks combined with status, confidence, wealth and personality. With men, we just care about the first.

[@EvilSnips]

If Jack weren't league with murderers, on the face of it, I'm actually more scared of someone like Albie because it feels IMPOSSIBLE to reject them without feeling guilty, while someone like Jack will take the hint if you aren't interested.

[@AnaGomez-vf8jj]

Depends on the dude. I’ve been with both Jack’s and Albie’s and let me tell ya a Jack has an ego and he can also be pushy af . He also wouldn’t want to be rejected. Honestly most mens ego is the problem in general, they feel entitled to own us like they have won a price just because they think they did the right steps. It completely erase our autonomy and desire off the map.

[@EvilSnips]

@@AnaGomez-vf8jj Yea Jack is still creepy AF but most of the time, if they know you are definitely not interested, they will find another girl that they can charm better. But his dominating presence is scary in itself.

[@kushan_tk]

lmao

[@ThomasFoolery8]

If you can’t reject them without feeling guilty then why do you feel guilty? Is it because you lied about what you’re looking for in men? Maybe don’t say you want a nice guy, but rather, say you want a hot guy whether he’s nice or not. Then you’ll feel no guilt when an average looking guy thinks being nice to you will win you over, because you made it clear that you aren’t attracted to that.

[@scooterbraunsworstie]

@@ThomasFoolery8albie is that you?

[@solvjans5988]

Very interesting video. I would also like to discuss the question: how could Albie have done better? With Portia, you mentioned it, he should have noticed that she's not interested and should have left her alone (even though, as you said, she also should have been more direct). However, with, the situation with Lucia, I'm wondering, how should he have acted? He legit thought that she was in danger because she was owning money to an abusive pimp. What should he have done instead?

[@M1ntt806]

Replying so this comment gets more engagement and hopefully a reply from someone who knows what the best way for him to act in that situation would have been xD

[@Veronikillah]

personally, I’m conflicted as well. I wonder to what extent he was being genuine in his relationship with Lucia. Did he genuinely believe she was in danger or did he play into it slightly because it’s suited his narrative? His emotional connection to Lucia seemed to be coming from a genuine place, but I think it’s possible that he chose to view her as a damsel in distress in order to achieve the kind of relationship he was craving. He wasn’t able to fulfill that urge to protect in typical romantic relationships, so he had to do it through sex work. Sex work is a transaction and his relationship with Lucia was transactional. He was made aware of this at a certain point. it’s understood that Lucia is playing a role within the relationship to make the transaction smoother, and Albie could have been doing the same to an extent. He could have played into the narrative that was constructed to further satisfy his desire to protect, even if he knew on some level that it wasn’t completely genuine.

[@ifonlyicould]

Albie believes Lucia's scam due to his naivety about women (and his naivety as a wealthy foreigner). For example, while his grandfather can recognise Lucia as a prostitute, Albie does not. Albie also ignores his grandpa's warning that women are not all good, instead believing women to be angelic damsels in distress. In trying to save Lucia, he fails to see how his actions towards Lucia are motivated by sex/romantic desire and paternalism, rather than an altruistic urge to help her. Thus, his worldview allows him to be easily manipulated by Lucia. If he didn't have this outlook, he likely would have been more sceptical , stood up for himself more, and communicated more directly in all his interactions with Lucia.

[@Ray03595]

He did leave Portia alone too. After he saw her with the other guy they only talk again twice. One time Albie apologizes for the awkwardness of the other night and then at the airport. So I think the critique is too much. Not like he was stalking her at any point. With Lucia a part of him knew he was getting played. He shouldve not allowed her to get away with what she was doing. But I think it’s also difficult when you did get followed by this guy and there is a small chance she is actually being threatened

[@subjectively_objective]

It was partly bc he felt entitled to a relationship with Lucia simply because he paid for her freedom. That itself is infantilizing.

[@maddelke7]

Thanks for articulating the turning of the tables with Lucia using the weaponized guilt to manipulate him. Really clever writing.

[@moonlily1]

I think 'creep' would be too strong of a word, he just has issues and isn't self-aware about them. One would like to think it's something he will outgrow, though truthfully it can go either way- he can gain some self-awareness about what drives him and start to see the flaws in his outlook towards gender dynamics, he can feel guilty about using his mother as a bargaining chip in his own selfish pursuit, regret that choice and reflect on it, start listening to women and really hearing them rather than projecting onto them. He can gradually become a nice guy instead of a "nice guy". But it could also go the other way too- romantic disappointments could make him bitter and cynical, he could revert to the incel ethos of "women only like men who treat them like crap, show them respect and you'll get friendzoned" viewpoint. I'm sure at some point he will find some genuinely broken woman whose all to happy to find someone who wants to "fix her", but that's not likely to bring him happiness for very long as that's very shaky ground for a relationship.

[@Gfjancnslsdvv.ft1]

Love this essay, a good dissection of the nice guy all around.

[@jeffersonhassan4558]

I'm glad portia wasn't exonerated in your analysis,she kept stringing him on not to say Albie didn't have his own ulterior motive

[@lightandtheweight]

Yikes the “nice guy” caricature completely dilutes where his intentions originate and paint his problematic behaviors as malicious when more accurately they’re a natural response to a world wherein toxic relationship dynamics and power plays are the norm. Just because Albie is flawed does not make him some creep or some nice guy and reducing his internal conflict as such misses the larger point that we all come to our relationships from the prism of our past wounds. He is a wounded bird himself, attempting to tread water and find his own power and agency in a distorted world just like virtually every other character on the show, signaling the brilliance of Mike White’s nuanced writing.

[@AM2K2]

Hope she sees this bro

[@John-po9wz]

It's crazy how niceness is seen as coercive nowadays lmao. Portia never actually said no to Albie and she wasn't upfront about her disinterest but on the other hand he was pretty up front with his intensions with her to the point of asking for consent for a kiss... her inability to say no to him because of his niceness is on her not Albie. Even when he mentioned wanting to keep hanging out after the first date that's not being deceitful DUDE HE LITTERALLY JUST SAID WHAT WAS ON HIS MIND. to not push to "hangout" after a first date is decent human behavior, she also didn't invite him in which if you've ever been on a date that's generally how the dance goes. The nice guy becomes problematic when he's not honest with his intention and the potential entitlement they may feel when faced with rejection, but Albie did leave Portia alone and took the rejection gracefully given the situation. The point is as you pointed it out regardless of how Albie would have acted Portia wasn't interested so his niceness wasn't actually the issue. Had Portia actually been attracted and available to Albie his "niceness" wouldn't have been seen as creepy or problematic.

[@chatterbox11]

The critique of Albie's "nice guy" persona goes beyond only his interactions with Portia. And, the commentator acknowledged that Portia was not upfront with Albie and strung him a long a bit. Albie is not necessarily a "bad person," (except the few times he really IS a bad person), but he is frequently dishonest with others, and more importantly, with himself about what his intentions and desires. It has been noted by many others, but kindness and compassion are sincere character traits whereas niceness and politeness are social conventions that are appropriate in certain interactions , but can also be misused as devices to manipulate and deceive. When someone is nice because they want others to view them in a certain way, which they think will get them what they want, then they are using niceness as a sort of charm to manipulate and deceive. Albie's relationship with Lucia shows he desperately wants to be viewed as the "knight in shining armor," even if it means doing something unsavory and/or stupid for the recognition. He is also either oblivious or chooses to ignore the fact that if Lucia were truly in a desperate situation and he was the only one who could potentially help her, his sexual relationship with her may not be entirely consensual (i.e. she may feel she must offer him sex in order to get his help). He simply sees his ultimate fantasy of a "wounded bird" giving him the opportunity to be the "nice guy" and receive his reward of sex and gratitude. He was so determined to become Lucia's savior that he ignored all the red flags from her and his father's warning and walked right into Lucia's scam. He was quite willing to go against his own stated values and betray someone who really *did* need his help, his mother, by lying to her that his father had changed and convincing her to give Dominic another chance just so he could get the $50,000 to give to Lucia to supposedly rescue her from her bad situation. That was an example of Albie using he "nice guy" act to be manipulative and deceptive and ultimately behaving so recklessly that he ended up bringing his own downfall and getting played.

[@gabelluc9573]

Thanks for saying it out loud man. I saw a (great, btw) interview of the cast members a couple weeks ago and all of them, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, said Albie was the nicest character in the story. There was contention about who the worst person was, but no, everyone was agreeing the "Albie was the purest" and "the sweetest". It made me wonder if I'd been watching a different show with the same cast. For me, Albie was a walking red flag, another Dominic in the making. As far as nicest person goes, you'd think Ethan would be a strong contender. He really tries, and considering he has spent an entire week being verbally humiliated, gaslighted, mistrusted and taken advantage of at an emotional low point, you can understand why he's not always the best version of himself. Cameron at least had the honesty of openly being an douche, Jack is the boy you meet at the festival and you're happy to never see again afterwards, but Albie? He reeks of fake wokeness.

[@helenegraham]

I agree with you about Albie, but I reallyyyy disliked Ethan. We are made to think at the beginning that Harper is just a nag or whatever, but the whole time she is trying to engage and talk with her husband. He doesn't engage with her at all, doesn't make an effort to make her more comfortable on their vacation, refuses to make her feel desired, and he clearly doesn't like Cameron or his wife very much, yet he's bent on proving himself to them (even if it's more subconscious). He did lie to Harper wife and allowed Cameron to get him in this situation he could've refused to be a part of. And, in the end, he was in the same situation Harper was in -- plagued with suspicion, and finally succumbed to it and (presumably) cheated on her. He's not the worst person but he's a very bad husband. Even if you think Harper is annoying, he married her; if my wife was a cynical gossip, I'd cynically gossip with her lol, like they're supposed to be a team but he mostly ignores her. idk he rubbed the wrong way

[@melvv18]

Let's not confuse someone who's quiet with being nice. Ethan has issues and made bad choices.

[@theorderofthebees7308]

Ethan was so compelling to me

[@M1ntt806]

​@@helenegraham who would you say was your favorite character from the show if it's not Ethan?

[@helenegraham]

@@M1ntt806 I mean they're all pretty flawed but I thought Valentina, Mia, and Lucia were the most compelling and I was glad to see them get a more or less happy ending. In terms of who's the best person, Portia is pretty harmless I'd say

[@aabidahsiebritz3839]

This video explains Albie's character really well, when watching the show I told my husband that this guy is bordering on a "nice guy" like it seems to be coming from a good place but it's still manipulative. The point about him being the guy his mother needs was so on point, now he thinks all women need that kind of support. That's how I knew Lucia was scamming him because it fed into all his ideas about what he thought about women. Albie is kind of over-correcting in a way.

[@zayn5603]

It's not his fault portia wasn't honest and upfront with him. They planned on meeting up, he saved her a seat because he was expecting to meet with her like they had said, and he then saw her with some guy. Him saying hey i saved u a seat and i'm over there, is a way to be like so we were going to spend time together right? in case you forgot i'm right there. There's nothing creepy about it. If she has changed her mind about what she wants to do, it's on her to communicate that to him, otherwise she's wasting his time. Ofc albie knows that just because you do something nice for a woman doesn't mean she owes you anything. With Lucia, she forged a relationship with him before pulling the i need 50k euros. He wasn't buying her love, she already made it seem like she loved him.

[@theelectricprince8231]

It's great to see 1 honest comment in the sea of crap that is this comment section

[@tatianawhite1638]

I agree and he didn’t over react when he realized he was played by Lucia either…I feel like most people would of been pissed in his shoes

[@theelectricprince8231]

@@tatianawhite1638 he should be pissed. He deserves to be angry

[@Ray03595]

Finally a fair comment about Albie. There is some entitlement with Portia scenario. But he does leave her alone after it’s clear she wants Jack, so he moves on… not sure what ppl wanted him to do after that. So much focus on Albie that ppl are forgetting the other characters have arcs too. Portia being indecisive and not standing up for herself is part of her character. Lucia being manipulative and using her sexuality to go after vulnerable people is apart of her character

[@cashmerenerd]

it was very much worth the wait, you've explained the different facets really well, and, I think, fairly

[@IamCree]

I just love that you understand social and psychological nuance so well. This analysis was spot on!

[@vacationbibl3school]

please do make a video on Jack! ever since reading about the theory that he could be a former sex worker who was being exploited i haven't been able to stop thinking about his character

[@irr1sss]

He totally still was lol but now it’s full time position. The pinky ring was a total clue being in the hole.

[@theorderofthebees7308]

Jack ! The actor was chilling !!!!

[@okdthefmv]

Fellas the "Nice Guy" route is not the way. Just be upfront about your feelings and rejection is a part of the process.

[@TimeIdle]

Good observation. In one of the interviews, the actor who plays Albie did say that be careful with people who say that they're a nice guy.

[@SamosaJii]

After watching so many of your videos I hear your voice in my head dissecting my personality flaws while watching my life as a show

[@JustanObservation]

Welcome to my life

[@AdishaMusic]

Love this! You really hit the nail on the head. It's refreshing :) As a woman I'm too used to men not understanding this.. Albie's lack of self awareness is really the problem. He thinks he's being respectful when he's actually being fake. There's nothing worse than pretending to be something you're not.. it's obvious he does want to distance himself from his father and grandfather but by refusing to accept the parts of him that are similar and facing head on what he actually feels, instead creating the façade that he is so much better than them, he is preventing himself the kind of growth needed to truly be that guy. He is too convinced of his own forced narrative it blinds him to the truth. Not that he is a bad guy, but to actually become the kind of guy he wants to be he needs to be honest with himself. I've met too many guys who were oblivious to their own "nice guy" act.. They feel like they are owed something for behaving that way and when they don't get what they want they flip faster than a cat who's had enough petting.

[@markmbaluto7365]

You dropped some gems

[@duderdude4831]

You're protecting a lot onto him

[@captainkal2582]

Nothing worse than pretending to be something you're not? Regardless of how ridiculous that sounds, both women and men do this. It just sounds like you've had relationships with issues like that, and it's troubled you personally. What makes you think you have a lesson to teach men as a whole because you've suffered some disingenuous blokes? Being fake is how you succeed on dating apps; which btw are platforms where women are in charge of outcomes to a large extent (in hetero dating at least). All I'm saying is your comment is one-sided, oblivious to how you could apply your broad criticism to both men and women. Just bc you're a woman and you've "met [...] many guys" doesn't mean you are enlightened about the male psyche. I would contend that perhaps you meet the same type of guys a lot bc you're seeking out the same type of guys, which you seemingly love to hate. Then again I don't know you at all and am just going on a comment you wrote on the internet. So no need to take mine seriously 😉

[@AdishaMusic]

@Captain Kal hi there. I feel like you might have taken my comment personally. You sound offended. You've also taken to assume quite a lot of things about me. Anyway let's clarify some things. 1. I don't know why that sounds ridiculous to you.. have you never been hurt by anyone pretending to be something they are not? Or at least you've never experienced manipulation for sex? Or maybe you don't care about that as much because you think it's natural for people to do that? I'm deducing that from you saying that everyone does it. Well.. maybe a lot of people do, but it doesn't mean that's the only way, or that we all should accept that as the only way. 2. Personally I hate games and prefer honesty in any relationship, romantic or not. Being tricked into trusting someone hurts. I do also understand people are not always capable of being honest with others, especially when they aren't honest with themselves. That is also a process.. getting to know oneself takes time and being more self aware takes effort. 3. I never said this was something only men did. This is a comment on a video analyzing the character of a man, so that is what I was commenting on. 4. I can only talk about myself and my experience obviously. As a woman who has dated men, and can recognize some of them in this character, that is the input and perspective I can provide. Does that encapsulate the full extent of the human experience? does it explain the whole of the human psyche? Probably not. Different perspectives help us gain a better understanding of things, and when it comes to human behavior I do believe it helps to consider the effects of one's behavior on those they come into contact with.

[@duderdude4831]

@@AdishaMusic Russia is bad

[@MrSandman_0981]

Albie is the perfect exemple that show how your parents relationship affects your view of love.

[@theorderofthebees7308]

One thing I thought that was spot on about Albie, is the fact that his grandfather points out Albie blind spot that all woman are not virtuous and nice . He can’t believe that in his attempt to be this “ feminist “ guy he actually being just as problematic women are people and they can be just as messy as men something his grandfather knows tells him and he can’t believe which is why he gets scammed in the end .

[@mrstawb]

This is a character analysis that a lot of people could benefit listening to and reflecting on.

[@jensendsflowers]

So so good. Makes me think of men I've met IRL and reveals Albie is worse than I thought!!

[@colins3688]

albie was me when i was younger. wanting to protect my sister and my mother made me see women as angels. that is until i finally grew up and saw the world for what it truly is. a world filled with humans and not angels.

[@oursbrun4243]

People keep writing about the "complexity" of his character, and this video highlights how manipulative "nice guys" can be (or really are). But I would like to remember that most females use an adjacent strategy in relationships. The difference is that, society allows them to do so, without "asking questions". I would like to ask; is the girl in the show really powerless ? "She is manipulated, but there is nothing she can do?" Am I allowed to notice that she should be aware of it, or at least be "emotionally intelligent" enough to manifest what she really wants in certain circumstances? Or should we all ignore that fact ? I didn't watch the show; I agree with the general idea exposed in this video; but I also acknowledge it encourages the victim mentality of some women in a perverse way.

[@ajp7968]

I think you should watch the show to understand his relationship with the women on the show. The point of this video is to discuss Albie's character, not sure why you're trying to play devil's advocate and talk about how women can "get away with" pretending to be nice. Women usually pretend to be nice to protect themselves, and they would be labeled as "desperate" if they come off as any bit people-pleasing. You can't compare the power dynamics between them because one has historically, and continues to, have power over the other in society. Also it's gross to refer to women as "females" 🙂

[@etherealclarity]

This is a really well done breakdown. One thing I will add though - Albie's "nice guy" approach isn't just problematic because it can cause him to have less success with women and make them uncomfortable. Sometimes it can actually be dangerous to women. I was actually married to a "nice guy" somewhat like Albie - and he turned out to be abusive. I'm now married to a *kind* person, which is a very different thing and requires you to view women fully as people and not objects (either to be used or to be saved). Not trying to say Albie is or would be abusive - just that the roots of the behavior he's displaying, as you pointed out, seem nice on the surface but are often unconsciously manipulative, and that's ultimately at the root of a certain kind of abuse.

[@alflundgren8138]

I'm sorry that you were in that situation, but I wonder how much of it is just because you have a personal example, and not actually a pattern. I think anyone can be abusive, and I don't necessarily believe that a nice guy is more likely to be. Not saying you're wrong necessarily, but I would need more data to agree with using your experience as a template for recognizing abusive tendencies. One example doesn't make a pattern, even if it often feels like it when it happens to you. And we're all guilty of making that assumption sometimes.

[@etherealclarity]

@@alflundgren8138 Hi there! If you read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft, it's an excellent breakdown for the roots behind abuse. It boils down to, essentially, a sense of entitlement, and of objectification, with your partner. This is what I was referring to when I talked about some of the underlying attitudes behind "nice guy" behavior. It isn't about my own experience, I just have a very handy personal anecdote that someone can say all the "right" things and not be maliciously trying to hurt someone and can still be abusive.

[@howardron543]

My fave vid on white lotus so far

[@basicindiebro]

That scene at the end where all 3 DiGrasso men check out the woman was so brilliant

[@JetPackDino]

Well said! I could not figure out why I did not like Albie, but you nailed so many of the reasons. Thank you. I don't know how I missed the obvious, but yes, was absolutely trying to control Portia. He was trying to force her into a relationship, even though she was clearly giving alllllll the "friend zone" signals. (The actor himself is a bit more wise, in an interview he said that a relationship is like a fart. "If you have to force it, it's probably s--t.")

[@FaizanSAnsari]

You are the new 'every frame a painting'. Loved every bit of this. Looking forward to more!

[@Prague4Introverts]

THANK YOU! I have no words to describe how great your explanation of Albie is.

[@mudbone32]

Love it. It'd be great to watch someting on Jack. Although he's more of a supporting character the hints at this depth are there and he really brings the show together.

[@rdd2083]

Interesting how you both expertly analyzed a character from a show, but also subtly provide feedback for men who want to be the "nice guy" to women, basically explaining why it doesn't work and they shouldn't do it.

[@nathy0308]

The best Albie analysis I've seen!

[@therokku7393]

Damn, your channel is like college for showrunners or screenwriters, keep the good content

[@Giselle1289]

This was an amazing analysis. I just discovered you, and I immediately subscribed.

[@amh1772]

I would love to watch more videos like this about the characters in this show.

[@Pandozzi]

This video is absolutly brilliant! it's so well written and thought out, it's interesting and beautifully executed. new sub here

[@LorenceBeDe]

Very good analysis but its a shame you missed the point about him selling out his mother.. the 50k was in trade of him putting a good word in in his dads behalf. That shows he's not so naive.

[@JustanObservation]

I was going to but he says later in that same episode that he already did (before knowing his dad paid up). So that shows it was manipulation but not selling out his mother as he had already decided with or without the money

[@Nian117]

@@JustanObservation I'd add this possible perspective: He put in the word before the payment since It could, again, validate his unconscious superiority towards other men (especially in case his father didn't "save" Lucia, as he promised). It also serves as a guilt trap towards him. In this scenario i'd still see it as a sell out of his mother, since her well being is not really accounted for... only Albie's ego. Also, it's a delight to watch how you weave these subtle hints into a cohesive deep analysis of a character. Thank you for the vid. :)

[@FlammySpritz]

Great video, this is one of the better breakdowns of Albie's character I've seen

[@Teddy-zr8yv]

joe golberg... without the serial killer stuff

[@jamiew.6606]

YESSSS lol, I thought of Joe throughout this season! I watch a lot of crime tv, and many serial killers start off being an Albie. Actually very creepy

[@anncha0]

« But instead she was being selfish, and kinda using Albie in case no one better came along » …. I think your perception is kinda off. Portia is left alone in a fancy place, a world she doesn’t know very well and she is being constantly scrutinized by her boss. She tries to enjoy her time at the hotel with nice people, it doesn’t make her selfish… Judging female character a bit harshly here imo. She met Albie when she was alone so it’s natural she will spend time with him. If she decides to do other things she has the right to do so, she didn’t came to the hotel with Albie. Or am i missing something.

[@magma4168]

My biggest problem with Albie is how he decided to help his father with his marriage. I mean, I get it, he probably even believed that his father can change, but he's done a big disservice to his mom, lol.

[@marianneivaneska2851]

Your analysis is so impressive! ❤

[@smita568]

That's how it went for me. Albie went from a supposed sweetheart that i'd root for, to a problematic guy who i was rather happy got cheated by Lucia, especially since Dominic got his end of the deal. Also Lucia was happy. It was perfect. I love how this show made me care about characters with unconventional traits and made me go through a whole journey of judging them.

[@katiegrace9036]

you explain so well everything i felt instinctively from his character. super interesting!!