Whiplash vs. Black Swan - The Anatomy of the Obsessed Artist

[@kiraaisling9603]

I saw a comment that said “she killed herself to be immortal. She knew it was perfect. And everyone would remember it.”

[@kiraaisling9603]

Hannah Schrock I saw a comment that said this I didn’t write the comment.

[@agent606]

It was symbolic. Nina thought she was battling another dancer when instead she was battling herself. When the other dancer transforms into Nina and she stabs herself it’s her killing the white swan, the innocence that prevented her from fully becoming the black swan. That’s why her injury doesn’t reappear until she’s in the white swan costume. It wasn’t a physical wound, it was a metaphorical wound. She killed the innocence, and at the crescendo of swan lake where the white swan commits suicide, the blood blooms and she starts profusely bleeding out, it’s the death of the white swan aka her innocence or what was left of it.

[@issa4630]

agent606 so nina didn’t die?

[@agent606]

bad c0wboii die as in she didn’t live? No. But the question is did she sacrifice too much of herself to go on living as “Nina” pre swan lake, or has she damaged herself mentally beyond repair? Like we see Winona’s character earlier on in the film? It’s a very very symbolic movie.

[@YvonneFr23]

I know you didnt write the comment, but it wasnt actually perfect. I mean she fell when dancing the White Swan in the beginning of the performance. But maybe she was just thinking of her embodiment of the black swan, as this was what she struggled to perfect for so long 🤔

[@cryptid12]

these were literally the most stressful movies i have ever watched

[@grumpyspinach7013]

Come and See is the most stressfull, saddest movie ever made it is on a whole other level not even kidding it brakes you

[@stoppls1709]

@@grumpyspinach7013 uncut gems made me watch to gouge my eyeballs out

[@grumpyspinach7013]

​@@stoppls1709 great movie there is something so stressful about it I can't even describe. It does so many little ambigious detials. Adam sandler, can truly be a great actor.

[@lucilliastreusvogel]

@@grumpyspinach7013 Is that the movie that can make even Schindler's List look like Teletubbies?

[@Therevolution7]

You havent seen graveyard of the fireflies.

[@sirwafflesxx8218]

Here’s an interesting factoid: When the director of whiplash was asked what happened with Neiman after the movie ended he replied “Andrew probably killed himself like that other kid.”

[@SomeRandoAlmond2001]

“Like that other kid” bro mans doesn’t give two shits 😂

[@annajkbn7333]

Damn that is sad, im about to cry rn-

[@411hippieCO]

I'm glad that this was not hinted, as that outcome is not obvious. As an artist the beauty of the film is the sacrifice it takes to be more than generic. Andrew has lost and endured to become what he set out to be. To be something the majority isn't. As he transformed to be invested in himself and not for the praise of another. Everyone is not equal in mental fortitude. At the end of day, it's up to Andrew to determine if it was worth it.

[@adrianrojasch8231]

@@411hippieCO i believe it was actually hinted, as Andrew became the new “Charlie Parker” he probably just ended like him, dying at a very young age. Also it is known that Andrew actually preferred to die at a young age being known, rather that dying old and being forgotten.

[@411hippieCO]

@@adrianrojasch8231 there’s a lot of parallels, but they leave it open ended. The finale was also a scouting competition and it’d hard to believe he doesn’t wind of landing a job in his craft. He also learned a valuable lesson. To do it for himself and not the praise of someone else. He can very much grow and have a happy life afterward. We don’t know and I love that. It’s his life and it’ll be up to him to determine if it was worth it.

[@tugce4968]

I can’t imagine fletcher being nina's teacher. Real horror

[@julietteferrars7739]

i haven't watched whiplash yet but i think nina's coach(?) was scary enough. i mean, a full-on grown man kissing her for the "art" and rubbing her private part... no ma'am

[@emwrsk]

Yeah, at least Thomas feigned some sort of affection for Nina. Although “affection” is a nicer way to put it.

[@noahtawil8793]

@@julietteferrars7739 fletcher would demolish her like a mini me

[@MrDenysJoke]

she's too fragile

[@drivingstudios6151]

@@noahtawil8793 he would throw a chair at her lol

[@CRE8LSM]

makes me so sad how many people gave Black Swan a 1 star on imdb because they were "confused"

[@faiths5338]

CRE8 all great art has problems with people not understanding

[@hightideera]

Out of any comparison you could've done you went directly to pedophilia? What the fuck is wrong with you?

[@AverageWagie]

What was so confusing about it? It was a pretty straightforward movie, even if you're not sure which scenes are "real" and which ones are just Nina's hallucinations and paranoia. I can understand being too confused by, I dunno, Mullholland Dr. or Primer. But come on, if Black Swan was too confusing for you maybe you should stay away from any movies that are even remotely allegorical. Or you should, you know, put down your damn phone and pay attention to what happens on the screen.

[@aly8950]

david Jones wtf

[@lepotatoes]

Someone call the fbi

[@BabyBearRudy]

I like how both protagonists start the film in white and when they finally “kill” their old selves they are in black.

[@sulfa5506]

me rn

[@lucylied333]

Sul Fa 👁👄👁

[@infinityentity]

Nina is dressed as the white swan when she stabs herself and dances at the end so not really. :P You probably meant the Black Swan transformation as a whole though.

[@テネット-n9d]

becoming

[@Gnomelander1400]

Racist

[@Miumiu0404]

Nina's final line in the film was "I was perfect" with that warm, satisfaction in her face. It was a beautiful but horrifying moment. It was also a privileged feeling knowing that we did something perfect before our last breath. We can interpret that Nina died in the ending but she had the privilege that everybody wants, to die in content and no regrets.

[@ralayaannisa9056]

now that you mention it,, kinda remind me of millon dollar baby

[@maiprincesse]

When she said „I was perfect“ it was not her voice, it was Lillys

[@famishedfairy]

I never looked at that scene in that way! Good job🤔

[@hayley6040]

The ending could not have been more perfect

[@cazu3607]

@@famishedfairy There are no two words in the english language more harmful than “ good job “

[@OasisMusicOfficial]

Andrews climax during his drum solo actually signifies his ultimate sacrifice to his craft. According to the script, his dad is not astounded but defeated when he realizes that he had lost his son for good and wont get him back

[@blurrylinesx8039]

I really can't see the ending of Whiplash as "happy" or less worse than Black Swan's. Sure, Andrew is alive, but he still has become everything Fletcher wanted him to be. It's a subtle tragedy

[@santiagosuarez3584]

I definitely prefer what we interpreted as the audience when his dad saw him in the movie, more astounded and proud of his son.

[@santiagosuarez3584]

@@blurrylinesx8039 I saw that as something good.

[@jayy7842]

@@blurrylinesx8039 that should be a good thing, since Andrew aspired to become the next Buddy Rich and in the end because of Fletcher he did.

[@sulthanarya3281]

@@santiagosuarez3584 by his look its not even astounded and proud, but he terrifying because he lost his son, an old Andrew. The script even say so

[@khairulmukhriz7667]

I didn't breathe when Nina turned into the Black Swan on the stage

[@TheSolitaryEye]

Even on a fifth viewing it makes me cry, it's such a passionate and transcendent moment.

[@odysseus1220]

Did you see the shadows still in swan form after it shows her back in human form

[@harmonetheanimationaddict4419]

So it left you breathless?

[@manicpixiecurse5337]

This video in itself is some excellent filmmaking

[@diprajmore4418]

It's 100% true

[@TB--sp9wy]

Excellent editing, he didn't film anything

[@brandonkey181]

Scriptwriting*

[@flyingpenandpaper6119]

@Billy Bruner III it's not being a know-it-all if it's goddamn obvious lol

[@mrflipperinvader7922]

It's like they're taking place in different places at the same time

[@MrMikkyn]

That's insane how there are so many similar shots juxtaposed against eachother. Cinematic literacy at its greatest.

[@dijonstreak]

Cinematographers read scripts from the camera point of view...learning from experience what the words on the script translate into the world of FILM....THE VISUAL emotive impact.....

[@ABurntMuffin]

It's funny how after all of the similarities, Whiplash is a fantastically shot film while Black Swan is a "psychedelic" nightmare. Seriously, a laugh out loud film.

[@ABurntMuffin]

@@dijonstreak I was visually and emotively made physically ill from watching the train wreck that was Black Swan.

[@ABurntMuffin]

@@kingkylie9655 it has nothing to do with the characters or the actors. I think the story itself was also fine. The style of the film-making just makes it look like a low budget B-roll straight to DVD sequel. (I know it's not a sequel, that's not my point)

[@lc3920]

ABurntMuffin Obviously you don’t know much about filmmaking

[@VanN000]

What gripes me about Whiplash is how people see it’s ending as anything but tragic. Sure, Andrew got what he’s always dreamed of, to be great, but Fletcher ultimately won. His own dream to make someone great, justified his abuse, anyone who performed less was just a loser who “gave up”, and any consequences weren’t on him. Screwing Andrew over was both vengeance and another test to see if Andrew would give up again and to be forever humiliated, or prove that his abusive methods work for someone who wouldn’t “give up”. He would win either way, the latter being his dream, and the former just an excuse to say he hasn’t found “the one” yet. Andrew’s final move was to prove that he wasn’t a quitter and he could become the person he always dreamed about, I think it’s debatable to say whether he was ultimately playing for himself, or for the abuser who had been manipulating him the entire time, from beginning to the very end.

[@Isabelle-pp8nm]

this is my favourite comment wow

[@magnus6801]

Я думаю Флетчер будет с ещё большим рвением оскорблять, унижать, давить и требовать высочайшего стандарта. Ведь его философия оправдалась, он оказался прав. Да, это стоило дорого, жизнь того парня, который самоубился и психические травмы других музыкантов. Но это того стоит, даже слишком дёшево, за легендарного музыканта.

[@smartwater598]

Who cares if someone won or lost both won because both got what they wanted stop with this victim mentality lol

[@VanN000]

@@smartwater598 I don't consider Andrew's win a "win" when he could have easily "lost" at any moment (like dying in that car accident before getting to perform) and any accomplishment he achieved would be credited to the arguable villain of the story. Also, why would I want someone who's a villainous asshole to "win" to any capacity? If you have differing opinions, fine, no need to be an ass about it.

[@Melodybookey]

This was a great analysis!! So true

[@CourtneyCoulson]

These movies are so intense, just watching this review is making me anxious all over again.

[@peachpearplum]

the black swan will forever IRK the shit outta me.

[@ZanahoriaBaila]

Courtney Coulson I went to watch it at the cinema with my mom. We both ended up kinda shell-shocked in a bar afterwards, lol

[@danielmurray9820]

and the characters motivations and life contexts are completely different.. the reviewer seems to completely miss that Nina is being forced to live the life her mother wanted for herself.. this is the central theme of black swan. Contrasting these movies, showing their differences, would be a more valid review than making out they are similar.. apart from the nature of their disciplines demanding perfection... the stories and protagonists lives are totally different.

[@sincerelysilvia]

same lol I had to pause sometimes throughout the films. especially black swan.

[@sthenx0r]

That's only half of it, though. Her mother wants her to be the white swan - and nothing else. Her room is set up like she is a 4 year old princess, all pink and teddy bears. She treats her like a small child. Meanwhile, the director is demanding she acts like the black swan. And it is what she wants, but spends the whole movie trying to achieve it for herself to overcome her mother's limitations.

[@blackrb123ryan]

I feel like Andrew’s descent into madness was more subtle. I don’t know if that’s better or worse

[@bread5414]

I watched it as a child😐

[@mambaramba]

@@bread5414 and?

[@bread5414]

@@mambaramba it fucked me up a little but I Iiked the movie though

[@bread5414]

I don't know why I commented that here honestly^^

[@ryanw9122]

@@jonathanjonathan4908 lmao

[@Prison_Siege4020]

Whiplash could be a sad ending. There is another video that talks about it. In the beginning Andrew wears colorful clothes and slowly wears darker more black clothes. With his transition on color, he transitions into Flectchers machine. There is no more Andrew, only a machine.

[@Angelphroot]

exact same in black swan, as nina wears darker clothes as she progresses into the black swan!

[@rafaelcassimiro3306]

What vídeo?

[@yodelgoats790]

isnt band attire supposed to be black?

[@lucasbal913]

Yes in the first scene of the movie we see Andrew with a white t shirt and in the last scene we see him all dressed black but i don't think he has become a machine, i think it is how his personality is darker and hi is no more innocent as he is at first when he dresses white.

[@yuhinnn]

Lucas Bal but aren’t they all suppose to wear black...

[@manoelahorn4298]

other thing i see too much in both real life and this kind of movies: the obsessed artist's competition is ALWAYS someone who doesnt have a care in the world, someone who is just doing what theyre doing bc they have fun! they dont get nervous, dont compare themselves, they dont put the least amount of effort in their work and still succeed. its like they were born perfect. in dance moms you could see maddie being the favorite, best dancer, and she always said she wasnt nervous before performing and only competed for fun, and still won 1st almost everytime.

[@ratsalad178]

the reason you see it in real life is that people who do it for fun are less hard on themselves, more self-compassionate and tend to pick themselves back up faster as a result. frankly, they probably put in just as much hours of practice as the obsessed artist, it's just that practice is actually fun for them because they aren't under self-destructive amounts of pressure. as a perfectionist currently in recovery, I learnt this the hard way

[@Pandazillaaa]

Well maddie was lieing. Maddie actually was a very messed up child because of her horrible mom and abusive teacher. She once had a panic attack just because she forgot her recital routine.

[@xxshouldix1530]

As an obsessed artist i can confirm that. Just the whole realization of the fact that a person who doesn’t even do as much as u do might take your place - that’s what drives an artist completely insane

[@siebaby]

Every time I watch whiplash's ending scene I just melt in a spiral of emotions, its truly so dark, the fear in his fathers eyes, and the realization his son is truly gone is so heartbreaking and shattering its just brilliant.

[@411hippieCO]

I didn't get that at all. I think he finally saw his son for the first time. The culmination of his hard work and art. That's the beauty of things being left to your interpretation.

[@siebaby]

@@411hippieCO cool, i didn’t see it that way at all.

[@411hippieCO]

@@siebaby If I may elaborate. As I absolutely find the movie inspiring. Art is personal and it is up to Andrew and Fletcher whether is was all worth it in the end. Both sacrifice and lose things. Fletcher lost his job and Andrew drops out. Both come back to realize each others dream. Why do we buy in that you have to act or be a certain way to achieve goals? Artist question what it is to be. Life isn't easy and not falling into complacency is hard. Remember, the most damaging words is good job. Success is subjective.

[@saggysackstudios]

@@411hippieCO it’s a movie about a physically and emotionally abusive man who successfully manipulates a kid, resulting in terribly self destructive behavior borderline self harm.

[@411hippieCO]

@grimy girl You forgot "in my opinion"

[@avocado_is_my_love6359]

Man this was ART

[@ahmaddiamond7]

He's a goddamn artist

[@kay5266]

I CRIED

[@oddfreaks6452]

Also good to note how when Andrew is wearing white in the beginning. Like a pure angel, then Fletcher walks in, all black like The Reaper, And as the movie goes on Andrew slowly descends into the darkness. In his final performance he’s wearing all black..like Fletcher. He has become a Master of his art and now adopts the garbs of the The Reaper. It also shows in the glass of water he puts his hand in. It’s clear and bright..but when he puts his hand in and it’s corrupted and darkened by blood.

[@nadiyahk4224]

Thanks to you I’m going to ace my film exam

[@relm.5934]

And the curtain was blue.

[@rae.quillzwilltree8267]

good eye for detail- as I watch anything I look how the costumes change in the course the show

[@Rockstomp15]

well its pretty standard to wear black while preforming music

[@Armyofonebillion]

Jazz combo groups perform in all black attire whilst school related performances require white undershirts with black suit jackets, tho I can see where your thought process can take you that way I really think its because of the attire protocol. But end of the day, its all about the eye of the beholder

[@alyssajoyblack5007]

I was a classical clarinet prodigy. Black Swan and Whiplash are so real to me. I lost my mind and hurt myself badly in the process. I haven’t touched my instrument in 16 years. And never will again.

[@Seraphine07F]

That's a shame. What do you mean "hurt yrself" though - surely not as in literally?🙏💜

[@militarydeviltube5014]

@@Seraphine07F Lmao, take it literally. Why wouldn't you trust someone who says they hurt themselves?

[@bruhnation7868]

clarinets mid anyways so good on u

[@proud.delusion.enjoyer]

@@bruhnation7868LMAOOO

[@sparksparkbubbles]

@@bruhnation7868 YOU CANNOT BE SAYING THAT STUFF 😭

[@ez-ru3do]

whiplash absolutely terrified me because i’ve been in the same situation before. my parents kept agreeing with fletchers teaching “techniques” and it was honestly horrifying having to just sit there. weirdos

[@krypticunlimited6925]

"Boo hoo. parents bad, me victim"

[@sleepwalking3345]

@@krypticunlimited6925 damn. Snowflake over here is expensive

[@Creed329]

@@krypticunlimited6925 did your parents hurt you?

[@krypticunlimited6925]

My hope is that one day people will stop normalizing the act of complaining about personal issues on public sites for no real reason other than attention

[@Creed329]

@@krypticunlimited6925 😒

[@tyraeide9158]

I didn't know until now how creepy Black Swan is

[@danielhaqim5284]

The most scariest horror movie a have ever seen is Black Swan

[@LetsSewIt]

Black Swan stuck with me days after I watched it because it's the first creepy non-horror movies I've ever seen.

[@aly8950]

Tyra Eide as a kid when watching this for the first time I was horrified

[@WitchChangkyun]

I saw Black Swan as a young teen and it was a great film and mesmerizing but fucking scary.

[@NeasCZ]

You might want to consider checking out Perfect Blue then, the movie that inspired Black Swan.

[@Luncea28]

Black Swan is the film that made me think of movies as more than just popcorn entertainment, and now I'm studying to be a screenwriter. Whiplash is a modern masterpiece as well, and this side-by-side view and analysis is awesome. So cool to find this channel and learn from your great work!

[@tvclips7679]

@@frfras7 no

[@orange1293]

too bad i watched perfect blue before black swan and that just made more impact for me

[@fatbjpenn]

@@frfras7 ive seen both and black swan a bit better

[@inversion9651]

@@tvclips7679 yes

[@Clara_Elena]

What do you study to be a screenwriter?

[@catherinejean-leger7883]

For anyone who liked black swan i recommend the japanese movie Perfect Blue. It was that movie wich inspired black swan and its literally mind blowing and so disturbing.

[@white_tulip2189]

No wonder…i was thinking about whether it was inspired by perfect blue

[@SoySauce9]

Main character is called Mima. I wonder where Black Swan got the name Nina…

[@makaelaischillin]

@@SoySauce9 Nina means girl in Spanish. Nina displays childlike behaviors in the beginning(her pink and fluffy room, her tantrums, her overbearing mother). You’re reading too much into it in an attempt to be like “hAhA wEsTeRn mOvIeS cOpY!” but that’s a xenophobic ass take to have

[@_unhaunts]

perfect blue was such a mindfuck, i love it so much

[@snorlaxtube99oakridge76]

@@charlybrown5264 it's so heavily inspired that most of the the scenes and story were basically copied lol

[@BH-2023]

Whiplash is amazing, but for anyone who's had a real life Fletcher, that ending hits much different

[@zakiyajones9594]

Like actually... I had a dance teacher like that and it wasn't pretty. Very trauma inducing.

[@zakiyajones9594]

But in a weird way I also kinda respected my teacher (like Andrew did Fletcher) so it felt very odd to me to watch that movie, it felt kind of like a twisted self reflection.

[@hamad1o121]

@@zakiyajones9594 are u good at dancing?!? May i dance with you m’am?! 🤵🏻 🍷 starts *dancing very strongly and very good* 😏

[@zakiyajones9594]

@@hamad1o121 Why, yes you may! *grabs your arm and starts to boogie* 💃🏽 (this was the most wholesome thing I've ever seen on the internet, thank you so much :'). )

[@sallyjunior4329]

Relatable much???

[@neolitobject]

Black Swan Whiplash Raging Bull I, Tonya The Four Horsemen of Modern Obsession Filmaking. Edit: Honorable Mentions would be Foxcatcher, Birdman and Farewell My Concubine.

[@youdeservetobehappynow7584]

woah you're right!

[@comfortdark9864]

If you ever have the chance, plz watch Farewell My Concubine, that movie, I think, tells an ultimate story of an obsessed opera singer/artist. One of the greatest movies ever made in Chinese cinematic history.

[@thariqfiorano7290]

The birdman ??

[@ailikethough.6921]

@@thariqfiorano7290 Definitely

[@AllAlices]

WEE SAM definitely a great movie! I disliked the ending though on how predictable it was (the very end) considering the whole movie was SPOILER full of twists and turns

[@giusepperesponte8077]

I can't watch these types of movies, I've never seen black swan but I have seen whiplash and I don't think I've ever been more anxious and uncomfortable watching anything. The desperation for success and recognition is too real.

[@kylewhitehead1684]

Definitely uncomfortable viewing. You either have to look away or you want to look away but your eyes are glued to the screen.

[@Larindarr]

As a musician I’d ask you then PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF our blood sweat and tears: respect our music. It is not a comodity you buy like chips. It’s a piece of soul, sacrifice and life, that we have gone through pain for it to reach you and connect with you... please. If you knew how small the pay how grueling the hours... this was ... well a honney slathered Hollywood ending.

[@joewoodfilm]

@@Larindarr I 100% respect what you do; but I don't find becoming a broken and emotionless machine a honey-slathered ending. The whole point of the film is that success can only be obtained through extreme sacrifice

[@Grace-iv1ho]

You should watch perfect blue, the maker of black swan was heavily inspired by the movie (most people say he copied it)

[@jen_greatguys2721]

I honestly love Whiplash so much that I watch it again and again but Black Swan actually scare the crap out of me and I have to watch like 4 or 5 times to even understand the plot of the story bc it was soo confusing when I was watching it as a 13 year old But honestly it feel like you can see a piece of their soul...the soul of wanting to strive, of wanting to be someone, the wanting to become that someone and it just not mean people in the art industry but everyone have the strive or that mentality of “no pain, no gain” like those that play sports for example...they show you their soul, there pride in their art of becoming the next generation to influence those around to become like if not better then them That just my opinion

[@haileytaylor6739]

as an artist i can say, the strive to greatness honestly isn't far off, these films are obviously dramatized but i relate to them heavily

[@niraxlevi9930]

Every single human being regardless of the domain is looking for greatness tho

[@Zombina638]

Um no these films tell it exactly how it is

[@Yes-iy3zy]

i think you've just settleled with a mediocre view of greatness beacause this is so not dramatized.

[@Evelyn_Okay]

Black Swan is the most honest portrayal of manic bipolar disorder I've ever seen. And this is coming from someone with MBD.

[@dezurayoliver1140]

I just watch it and after like three scenes I told myself that she was bipolar and obsessed with being perfect (Virgo)

[@spoppyboi6427]

"virgo", idiot.

[@raspberrycrowns9494]

A maybe a bit of schizophrenia? she tends to confuse what's real or not and think those drawings are taunting her

[@Jenniferdoll1]

@@raspberrycrowns9494 If that’s what they were going for, it’s a pretty bad portrayal of schizophrenia (and mbd)

[@raspberrycrowns9494]

@@Jenniferdoll1 Well not all schizos are the same. It could be relatable to one and completely inaccurate to another

[@mochiattoart514]

Even the reviews make me anxious af. Whiplash is intense, while Black Swan is messed up.

[@vijabeveritas5990]

Black Swan was a great movie, but it literally, both physically and psychologically, made me hurt to watch it. I have no desire to ever watch it again. I found it more disturbing than slasher horror films, in that sense.

[@Arguing.With.Idiots.]

@@vijabeveritas5990 looking at them toes is making me squirm

[@beep4340]

I've never felt so much second-hand stress from watching whiplash.

[@jamiexy1663]

ImA Pterodactyl you need to watch uncut gems

[@orangeandwater1538]

Both are intense and stressful.

[@missfashionator]

You are the Whiplash of movie analysis.

[@Red-vz6yx]

He's the dark souls of movie review channels

[@charlieshin9868]

he;s the best. There's so many video analyzing channel nowadays all in the format of video essays. The only people that sound professional and have really high quality videos are LFTS, Nerdwriter and maybe Austin Mcsomthing

[@nopetellingnothing45]

Charlie Shin also Every frame a painting and Now you see it tbh

[@treytilley333]

Watch “Like stories of old” channel. He’s one of the best I’ve seen!

[@twigtoyoulater]

The editing in this is phenomenal. Nearly felt like I was watching another perfect movie scene. The blend between Whiplash’s music and the routines in Black Swan is amazing. This video was golden.

[@LourdesDuran-j8h]

Exactly! It even made me shed a tear, he did a beautiful edit.

[@ftg-n8n]

woah vivinos

[@theknack101]

I don't think the end of Whiplash is supposed to be a happy one. You mention that Andrew's dad looks on astounded, but to me its more in horror. He is helpless as his son tries one last time to impress the teacher that ruined his life. And in the end, Fletcher gets what he wanted but that doesn't necessarily mean good things for Andrew. The director actually said in an interview that if he were to create an epilogue to the movie, it would have been 10 years later at Andrew's funeral after he dies broke and a burned out drunkard with Fletcher calling him an ingrate to his grave. Whiplash isn't a story about Andrew overcoming. It's a story about him ruining his life trying to please an unpleaseable figure.

[@bloopdaddy]

i agree

[@marcuslucu9966]

But the script says hes not playing for flecher anymore

[@JasonJia11]

@E MP I think the look on dad's face gives it all away. He isn't amazed or astounded by his son's masterful performance, he looks from the shadows in horror as he sees what his son has chosen to become and how he fell into Fletcher's hands anyway despite getting him kicked. Sure Andrew has achieved greatness, enough to finally impress Fletcher, and will continue to do so, but this path will most likely eventually lead itself to madness. I think the former student suiciding is also a big hint of what Andrew could possibly become.

[@falfieri3167]

E MP youre wrong there are literally interviews of the director telling us Andrews father had lost his son the moment he went back on stage.

[@krishnawidardjo5777]

@@falfieri3167 In my opinion, Andrews father was… how do i put this politely? his father was a jerk. At the beginning of the movie, when Andrew and his father was watching a movie (with all the popcorn stuff), he said to Andrew “I do not get you” but then also said “when you grow older, you will have perspective (or something like it)” whatever that means. But personally i think he is saying that he thinks he is good at what he do (although, as this video explains, he is only a mediocre person). he brags about perspective, but later on, in the dining table scene with the whole family, he mocks Andrew by asking, “any word from Lincoln Center?” when he know Andrew was abusing himself to be the best (his father knows about his injured hands). That is when i lose his father. Yes he asked Andrew to testify against Fletcher and quit Schaffer. He also went backstage after Andrew’s performance. But still, he was the one who pushes Andrew kinda more to the edge when he asked about Lincoln Center. he should have just supported Andrew, without the need of mocking him, in front of the family. With that said, personally, i think the movie shows that success stories needs hard work. Like real hard work (not just “you can do it, you can do it” cliche). Yes, physical abuse and mental abuse might lead to death. But the movie shows in the end, Andrew became Andrew and Charlie Parker became Charlie Parker with abuse. Another thing to point out is that one of Andrew competitor eventually went to medical school because he gave up on Fletcher. Therefore he will not be the greatest drummer ever. That is his choice. And again, i have to agree with “there are no two words in the english language more harmful than good job”. You cannot be the best if someone keeps telling you “you’re good” when you are simply not.

[@neolitobject]

I'm not joking when I say that, in terms of quality content, this is one of the best videos ever uploaded in the KZbin plataform.

I remember seeing this channel and crying. I could not believe KZbin was filled with such profound intellectual analysis of film....I spent my entire life just watching movies. In television, the "programs" are overt. Lesson learned. Conflict solved, with a bow at the end. I expected those situations when confronted in real life, if I took those same steps, to have that outcome. Standing up to the bully made life worse. The bad boy or jock doesn't notice the quiet girl. The slut, always gets the guy.....Movies were suppose to be different. Just strictly, entertainment. I'm paying to be freed of those expectations. It made life worse as a kid. I felt even more inadequate. I always cheered for villains. I wished I knew Freddy so he could kill people who picked on me. Or, wait, what, Black people were killed for being Black? White people get killed for helping Blacks? Mississippi Burning. Black people kill Black people, they have weddings, and those white baggies are crack, why are people naked packaging them up? New Jack City. I would go visit my Dad, he didn't look like Nino Brown. But there were people packaging those baggies. I didn't see Pookie. Cash? There were trunks of Monopoly Money? Mansions? There's 10 people in this apartment. And it has bugs.🤣🤣🤣

[@neolitobject]

@ you should write a book.

[@akshata04fly]

Agree with you @alan828

[@princessbubblegum790]

i really think the cinema analysis genre is one of those that leaves you feeling like you haven't wasted time AND keeps you entertained

[@jamesquinn9800]

🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂

[@DCAMM720]

I think the end of Whiplash is one of the best I've ever seen. Andrew's father tries to keep him from going back out there, almost trying to save him from complete obsession and to come back to normal life. But Andrew himself said earlier it may be better to die a legend early than to fade away as someone mediocre. Fletcher created an animal and he looked so pleased at the end.

[@ramsesperez3712]

Crazy how much energy is built into these two movies. Whiplash had me crying at the end. I was rooting for him but was sad that Fletcher had won. At the end of Black Swan, I noticed I was holding my breath for a long time, and my palms were sweating.

[@Janos86]

The difference is Andrew's dad's expression in those last frames. He's not astonished, he's utterly defeated. Andrew chose Fletcher's abuse over his caring as a father for his well-being, rejecting his humanity to become a machine, and de facto Fletcher's puppet, since even his rebellion after the "Upswingin' betrayal" was probably foreplanned by him to trigger Andrew's final transformation. Whiplash is not a story about overcoming one's limits to achieve perfection, it's about dehumanizing oneself for your abusive mentor's appreciation. Also note that the film does not wait to show the crowd's reaction to Andrew's playing in the finale but cuts to black. Andrew DOES NOT CARE about the crowd. He only cares about Fletcher.

[@gameflymc3374]

Claudio Cozzi are you fucking high? The script literally says he is not playing for Fletcher anymore, only himself. Im sick and tired of these dark endings. His father is not in horror because he never gave a shit. He’s astonished at his son’s drive, simple as that. Man, can all these people shut the fuck up about whiplash’s “dark” ending

[@okbuddy2924]

Gamefly Mc It’s like you didn’t even read the script

[@gameflymc3374]

E P. After reading the script, i realized how retarded i sound

[@mrjamesho]

Gamefly Mc bruh

[@anamoraes7387]

@@gameflymc3374 I think by the end of the movie, Andrew didn't choose Fletcher, he chose to be the greatest. He had given up on impressing his teacher, but he sure as hell hadn't given up in taking that oportunity to show the audience that he was the best. Him bickering with Fletcher in the end wasn't to impress him, but to say "you know what, f*** you, I'm an artist and I'm doing this". Well, that is just my take on this scene.

[@salvsays]

Whiplashs story has a bad ending. Fletcher won. He was proven right, with enough abuse, you can make someone great, and not only will they thank you for it, they will crave it again. You think andrew at the end of the set is not fletchers sandbag after that youre not paying attention to the movie. Andrew not only got to bite back at his master. His master rewarded him for it and then took control back as if to say, you bit me only because i let you. As was said in the video, fletcher smiles once andrew takes control as if he was expecting or hoping this would happen in order to unlock andrews full potential. Andrew is going to end up alone, drugged up but extremely talented and amazing at his craft with his master telling him when and how to play.

[@franjes9999]

SalvSays you’re 100% right everyone viewed the ending as Andrews victory which to an extent it was but it was an absolute win for Fletcher. The reviewer is right in saying the films conclusion proved that they were on the same page both had an absolute desire to achieve greatness and for a moment they recognised that they had. Andrew became the star fletcher always wanted which was a victory for both. But the reason it’s an absolute victory for Fletcher moreso than Andrew is because they disputed whether there was a line where you’d discourage someone and that greatness would fade and in Andrews moment of triumph becoming Fletchers rising star he proved that there wasn’t he validated all the unhappiness and heartache Fletcher created in him. The look on Andrews dads face is one as much of astonishment as it is of horror and fear of what lengths Fletchers abuse has driven Andrew to.

[@salvsays]

franjes 99 thank you. Your articulations was much better than mine. I see andrews fathers face as a face of fear, the loss of his son, and not the face of seeing someone achieve greatness. Thank you for putting what i feel into words!

[@johnlime1469]

Yea, I think you can kind of just say that any sense of Andrew's identity is pretty much dead.

[@salvsays]

John Lime right. Andrew only exists to fulfill music and fletchers purpose. Which tbh is what he wanted. He was willing to sacrifice anything to be one of the greats and now he will be.

[@johnlime1469]

@@salvsays Yes, it's definitely what he wanted. But now that he has it, I wonder if he'll come to regret that ideology years or even just moments down the line.

[@syddlinden8966]

I've always seen Black Swan as a commentary on mental illness and the consequences of denying it's presence, not just obsession with an art. They are overlapping concepts, but I think the film takes the descent into madness farther than obsession. And I think it does so beautifully. Great critique. Haven't seen this channel before, but seems worth investigating. :)

[@loriisgorey]

Sydd Linden I've never thought of the movie in that context. Makes it easier to see why I enjoyed it so much, moreso than Whiplash ultimately.

[@syddlinden8966]

Veronica Wyatt I still have a hard time watching JK Simmons because of Whiplash. That movie actually traumatised me a bit. :p

[@EveForbiddenFruit]

I had a discussion with my friend about it, and she thinks it's also commentary on eating disorders, which is established that Nina has from the very first scenes of the movie.

[@syddlinden8966]

Austin Faulds Eating disorders are very common among ballet dancers in general, so, yes, I can see that. I personally liked how dark this movie was for that because I've seen many other things glamorizing ballet, but it's a really damaging industry in many cases.

[@bananian]

Sydd Linden i thought it was just the cliche of someone working to hard starts to hallucinate.

[@raaychiel_2222]

Black swan is literally the scariest movie I’ve ever seen. I was watching it at 3:00 am. Afterwards I couldn’t sleep by myself in my own bed, and I was shaking all night.

[@niraxlevi9930]

Omg me too i had a panic attack and it's drama category how tf this is scary

[@MFLimited]

Probably shouldn’t watch it before you turn 15

[@TheTaleFoundry]

You have an unreal talent for identifying narrative structures. If we had half your know-how, our show (and our fiction) would be a dozen times better. Hats off to you, man. This is incredible.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Thank you! Trying to learn and share as much knowledge as I can!

[@laceystar4759]

Tale Foundry Hey I love ur channel.

[@CR4393]

Couldn't have said it better.

[@isabelneves1319]

Tale Foundry Absolutely true.

[@Ghost__Reveries]

Lessons from the Screenplay taururyFydtdifyyfydigfyyyTyyzDtyuSyyysyzfyTizuftu

[@neolitobject]

Man you should consider a career in film editing, I was literally hipnotized by this video. Keep up the great work!

[@dizzee6089]

Imagine this guy editing a film trailer... woah

[@noahdunn3940]

you’ve commented like 8 times

[@AlexS-oj8qf]

I know the feelings of each character. I used to sing on choir as the soloist tenor and my coach always push me to sing higher because he believe that I could sing in even higher pitch than I already do. Then there is this 'new guy' came from the sea and he could do my pitch but better. The coach started to compare us, preferring him over me sometimes. I hate that guy and constantly isolate him from my social circle but then people decide to likes him over me. Even my coach gives him some of my part. I started to get paranoid and train myself very hard until one day my voice cracked and I just couldn't sing anymore. That day he is officially the soloist of the choir core group. All that long days of training and hard working, and I just get casted out easily by the 'new guy'. The fear of losing something you've been working hard for is crazy.

[@kaca2903]

Wow, tragical. Will you get back your voice? Is it temporary?

[@AlexS-oj8qf]

Katarina I don't think so. I ruined it further more by smoking and I don't even interested in choir anymore hehe. I play violin nowadays.

[@kaca2903]

+Christian Djami Well then I don't think it's so tragical after all.

[@AlexS-oj8qf]

Katarina Yeah I'm much past that dissapointment and now I find something I can do without all the stress and as much fun :D

[@Ludwig1625]

Lol

[@DJMooseKnuckle]

The ending of Whiplash is still one of the most intense endings I’ve ever seen. Still gives me chills re watching it

[@oliviapete]

"Absolute perfection requires absolute sacrifice" made me think of Heath Ledgers performance he gave for The Joker.

[@AryaBeltaine]

can you give me more detail? im just wondering what he sacrificed

[@Jargalhurts]

He lived in for months alone in a hotel room trying to completely go into the head of the character, keeping a diary of his mad thoughts and abusing pills and medicine, isolating himself from society until he wasn't much different from the character he portrayed.

[@oliviapete]

Arya Beltaine to add to the comment above people also think the role is what pushed him over the edge causing his death. His New York apartment was found to be a shrine to the character

[@tylerasmith52]

so fucking true. well said

[@leonardacavalli21]

This is an old comment, but fucking jesus, stop with this godamned bullshit. He didn't kill himself over the joker, it was accidental overdose of pills. He was in the middle of a divorce, taking lots of pills to sleep, and he had finished the movie for months and was doing another one already. Just stop spreading this false information, this is just offensive to the actor, thinking that he wasn't capable of handling his own job. He died because of a tragedy, not because of a comic books character.

[@MatthewDakoutros]

While there are a lot of similarities in both movies, being a classically trained violinist and a professional music teacher I see two very crucial differences: Black Swan talks about the inner struggles of an artist to perfect their art and how harmful it can be, but also how liberating and rewarding. Whiplash on the other hand accepts that an abusive teacher is what you need to succeed, and that is a lie. It's just what music institutions teach you, that is a habit taken probably by the Soviet school, when in reality most world known musicians don't come from any conservatory. Actually there's a great book called "Music, Society, Education" by Christopher Small which imo is by itself an argument against Whiplash (of course the technical aspects of the movie and the performances are amazing)

[@cyanhallows7809]

I think you missed the point. As one comment said "I don't think the end of Whiplash is supposed to be a happy one. You mention that Andrew's dad looks on astounded, but to me its more in horror. He is helpless as his son tries one last time to impress the teacher that ruined his life. And in the end, Fletcher gets what he wanted but that doesn't necessarily mean good things for Andrew. The director actually said in an interview that if he were to create an epilogue to the movie, it would have been 10 years later at Andrew's funeral after he dies broke and a burned out drunkard with Fletcher calling him an ingrate to his grave. Whiplash isn't a story about Andrew overcoming. It's a story about him ruining his life trying to please an unpleaseable figure."

[@MatthewDakoutros]

@@cyanhallows7809 Maybe you're right, the feeling I got was that it glorified this type of education system. I have to watch it again at one point cause I haven't for quite some time maybe I'll see it in a different way

[@jeremiah2717]

@@MatthewDakoutros no it didn't. Please rewatch. I think you missed the part where the main character literally destroys himself and the teacher's 'hero' committed suicide

[@platosfavoritestudent6509]

Thats not what whiplash portrays in the slightest. Whiplash portrays that even in the face of adversity, you can drive through into the state near perfection. Every mans greatest setback is himself. Notice how under fletcher, andrew is never enough? It is not until he abandons fletcher, disregards him that he becomes his true self.

[@MatthewDakoutros]

@@platosfavoritestudent6509 For me it wasn't pointed out enough. Yes, he becomes better after leaving, then he meets with his old professor, he screw him and then they just exchange a glance or something. Where's the catharsis? I felt that Fletcher needed to be "punished" somehow and this wasn't evident.

[@sinshenlong]

I have not written in over 6 months. Not a word. I kept opening the word document with the intent to write. I kept setting my environment, ambient music, comfortable work station, current novel in case I need a break. Still nothing came, not a damn word. This isn't a case of inspiration, I know how the story goes in my head, but it was a case of fear. In my head I second guessed every word I was going to write. After binging your videos for the past hour, I wrote two paragraphs. Something in my gut drove me to the point of expression and I had to get it down. I share this , just as a way of saying thanks. You are doing incredible work, not just in educating or celebrating storytelling as art, but in inspiring the story tellers among us who have yet to rise. Thank you.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

:D

[@THE0ABOSHADY]

same

[@BLX0]

Keep it up! As a fellow writer, I know exactly the pain but not long ago I finally answered my inner dramatic question as a writer: Will I be able to commit myself to this craft? And the answer is a definitive yes. I realized that motivation is nothing when compared to discipline. I have since been writing every single day because I understood that is the only way that work can be done. It doesn't matter if on a day, I couldn't write shit. It doesn't matter, as long as I am putting words down. Inspiration ebbs and flows, discipline is eternal. It matters not if you only wrote one word but if you could write even one word a day without fail, you will have moved towards your goal that much closer and with just one hour a day of writing, before you know it, you'd have the core of your novel done within a year's time. This is 8 months late as a reply but I hope anyone who reads this, who is an artist, to not give up and instill in themselves the discipline to work on their craft every single day no matter how good or bad. Stop judging and just produce work, revision and such can come later. Do this, and your future self will thank you for it, for all the hard work, tenacity that you decided to imbue yourself in. The process is its own reward. The journey is more important than the destination. Good luck!

[@z0mbyz624]

Everything cant be perfect, if you keeep preparing for perfection, you'll prepare for an eternity and never do anything

[@bobbysands6923]

I'm going through it now. I have two suggestions: 1, write about the fact you can't write. 2, go hang out with your friends and laugh a lot. In other words, stop trying.

[@captainpicardbeastful]

It's easy to believe Whiplash is very hyperbolic in its portrayal of Fletcher but from experience I can attest that it can be very real, especially the form of competition brought on by the teacher. My music theory professor was just like him, minus the extreme physical abuse. And despite how much I wanted to hate him I respected him because he does know what he's doing. He pitted other students in my class against me with the same idea of "I'm just trying to help you become better" and it was horrible because these other students I respected and we were forced to compete for self-preservation. This wasn't a class I could leave because it was a very advanced class I had to fight my way up to with a very prestigious professor (I am not naming names because I pursued legal action against him but I will say he was the conductor of an important philharmonic. I hope that is vague enough). Even now I respect him for some reason. I'm aware of how messed up it is but I can't help but not look up to him for all of his accomplishments in a field very hard to be successful in.

[@pianissimo7121]

I am no genius but i was actually scared of this before even knowing it was a thing. I promised myself,i will play music only for myself. If people want to hear it it's fine, but i won't go anything beyond that. Luckily my coach understands and doesn't care why i want to learn. I am happy he treats me indifferent but i expected that. If i ever saw a coach like the one in whiplash i am running the heck out. It's easy for me to say cause i am not competing, but for those you are, i can't imagine having a coach like that.

[@JohnM-sw4sc]

Why is using competition as a means of betterment messed up ?

[@erikasantillan941]

Black Swan is one of the non-horror movies that scared me and gave me anxiety.

[@田中将之-p7m]

“Whiplash” changed my life completely. Every time I finished watching the film, I feel like I definitely have to practice piano like hell.

[@TheKh65]

I think the inspiration that the movie emits is transferable to any type of artist

[@ravenseye9179]

The movie is supposed to teach the opposite. It is supposed to be a movie that teaches you how pushing yourself too much can break you.

[@TheKh65]

eye how is that the moral of the story if the drummer achieves acknowledgement from his former teacher

[@ravenseye9179]

@@TheKh65 Don't you understand? The teacher is abusive. He pushes the main character to the point where he is a machine. He makes the main character feel like he needs his teacher's validation.

[@aceshighdueceslow]

@@ravenseye9179 absolutely agree, as a performer myself I always point to this movie as an example of what you *shouldn't* do if you want to be a successful performer. Practicing means fuck all if you have no rapport with your peers or any kind of a relationship with directors, it just means that you are obsessive, not necessarily that you have drive but that you are obsessed with attaining your goals. A piece of advice I got from a director several years ago was that you should treat stage managers like gold because they will make or break your career. Why did he say that? Because company directors and producers talk to their stage managers, they are the ones that keep a show running, they are the holders of all the keys, and if you treat them like they're unimportant they will remember and when the director asks them what they thought of you and they say what an asshole you were, you are likely not going to get hired again. Just because you know your shit perfectly doesn't mean you're going to get work, if you're an asshole, no one's going to want to work with you, not today when work is limited and the number of people able to take your place are a few orders of magnitude higher than they were 30-40 years ago.

[@Joe-ck3ju]

I am under the impression that Fletcher wins in the end of whiplash. Andrew became a machine by Fletchers design and Fletcher got exactly what he wanted. I think the directing that Fletcher did in the end said it loud and clear that even though Andrew was out there of his own accord is because he gave in and gave up. We didn't see Andrew at the end of the movie we saw a creation of Fletcher and the look on his dads face was one of concern almost as if he didn't recognize him.

[@roxanne4820]

i totally agree with that, so spot on, however one could argue that Andrew WANTED to be a 'machine by fletcher's design'

[@Larindarr]

Indeed and that makes him weak. Not a true artist. Some one to be shaped and carved whenever. It is so, because the pioneers of any genre, did it with their heart and soul. Not forsakig who they were ever. If you loose that you can’t reallypartake in the music truthfully. That is what I find so sad..

[@elijahalonzo6056]

@@Larindarr I think that makes him a work of art he was shaped and molded and tempered by fire so hot he should have melted. Chiseled so crudely he should have broke But instead he became a masterpiece a true work of art.

[@n01xcst]

Natalie Portman in Black Swan & J K Simmons in Whiplash - One of the best performances in history.

[@jamesburgess2k]

This video was amazing, please keep up the great content

[@jamesburgess2k]

Could you possibly do a video on Taxi Driver by Martin Scorsese? Or why multiple sequels usually end up worst and worst then the original film?

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Thank you! Will do!

[@blackparadoxx9656]

Compare the screenplay of Star Wars' prequels to the Original trilogy.

[@waywardwatchdog1]

Nothingman76 Yuck. Not all content has to be dominated by Star Wars. It was created as a children's story to sell toys. Grow up.

[@blackparadoxx9656]

waywardwatchdog1 That's too bad cause he just mentioned on another thread that he is working on 7-part series where he will analyze every single word of the script of each movie.

[@SackJlater]

watching this reminded me of how freaking great Whiplash is. Damn i really need to watch that movie again..for like the 5th time :D

[@baxattax6653]

I've seen Whiplash 5 times or so as well. But I must've watched the ending finale on KZbin about 30 times, it's so freaking amazing :D

[@jamesburgess2k]

Baxattax you know that feeling when you watch a part of the movie (like your favorite scene), and you remember that the entire movie is so great so you end up watch watching the whole movie instead? That's why I can't watch individual scenes like that, I get the urge to watch the full movie

[@FoolishlySmart]

Same here! And I'm writing this comment after watching the entire movie again!!

[@SackJlater]

Well. I did watch it again :D I love how this movie just keeps getting better the more attention you pay to little details. Miles Teller is probably gonna be considered one of the greats in Hollywood a couple of years from now. That guy is amazing. And "Not Quite my tempo" is probably one of the most rewatchable scenes in movies ever :D (alongside Mr. Blonde's Torture Scene in Reservoir Dogs)

[@diegosuarezdelreal5904]

When I first watched I replayed it 4 times the same week and have probably seen 10 times since then.

[@Gisellecollazo]

I got a tremble of goosebumps on the final scenes, i swear this is art on its own.

[@Larboga]

Just watched black swan and I was not expecting it to have the horror elements it did, and I was blown away. I’ve always loved whiplash so now seeing both is really something

[@BlaxicanBeautyTV333]

I'm a dancer, I know the internal struggle. How you just want to quit, getting yelled at, knowing someone sees something in you, but trying hard to see that part of yourself come through. Ruining a part is so devastating, you can't go back and re do it. There's something addicting about the torture of creating something beautiful.

[@TheThecrazyone]

Agreed! I'm in an arts school and I got yelled at for 20 minutes straight in a one on one meeting with my super award winning lecturer (lets just say he was on broadway for awhile) for my crappy work just two weeks ago. It was one of the roughest meetings I had so far for the sake of art and the work is still work in progress... And yet I still keep pushing and telling myself to learn from him, and push myself to make the show the best I can and prove myself to that guy. As I felt really really crappy about myself after that meeting! Truth be told I lost alot of sleep for "art" last year and I think I am going to again this year but the end reward and beauty you may find makes the pain feel like it was worth the shot. Plus that satisfaction of saying "I did that!" and made something out of thin air feels like a drug.

[@BlaxicanBeautyTV333]

just keep going, and make sure you have a lot of confidence.

[@aldanacastro911]

Yes!!! same with Music, when you feel like crap doing over and over the same piece, and others seems doing so naturally and effortless

[@benji5890]

I'm a drummer who has been in a situation scarily similar to the story in whiplash. And I was pushed to my limit until my teacher was fired for extreme verbal abuse and I stopped drumming for 2 years. The obsession for those years was horrible now I look back on it. Not an experience people should go through.

[@Mica_T]

The relationship with your art is painful yet fulfilling.

[@MrSegrist]

The side-by-side comparisons were quite illuminating. Keep up the good work! One reason I think your videos are so great is that you are clearly choosing films which are of amazing quality, rather than analyzing a popular, but highly flawed film. While much can be learned from a work of art which doesn't hit the mark, I think you're keeping the emphasis on what these amazing films do well, whereas other video essayists who analyze lesser films have a tendency to be fault-finding, nitpicky, or harshly critical. I greatly respect how much of a reverence you have for the art of cinema, which is one reason I keep watching your channel.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Thank you! I really appreciate that. Most insisting comment I've received recently!

[@iankrasnow5383]

There's an entire field of film study devoted to popular film. The type of analysis of popular film is different than for artistic film, because it attempts to pick apart the zeitgeist in the culture that the film taps into. It's cultural criticism as much as it is film criticism. In addition, as we all know, a lot of the culture of the early 20th century was spread through popular film - such as fashion, jewelry, values, etc. Film was the advertising medium that was used to convince women to start smoking cigarettes back when it was considered unladylike. And so on. This type of cultural engineering still goes on today. It's a great source of revenue for the film industry.

[@MrSegrist]

Thank you for responding to my comment, however I believe you are misinterpreting the distinction I was trying to draw about the quality of film. I wasn't trying to say that LFTS is great because Michael focuses on artsy cinema instead of popular movies, but rather that his video essays are great because he chooses films which he thinks are impressive and well-made. Some other channels choose some popular film which they think is flawed and then base their entire argument around what the filmmakers did wrong. There's a place for after-the-fact script doctoring and breaking down what doesn't work in a film, but I appreciate how Michael is focused on highlighting what is remarkable rather than on what could have been better.

[@danielmurray9820]

and he starts with a conclusion then works back to force that conclusion to fit... he misses black swan is about the mother living through the child and forcing her obsession on that child, and that Andrew does not go insane while Nina does, and starts off very disturbed.. he says Andrew asking the girl out is out of character, which it is not, or if it were we have no way of knowing this as it is so close to the start of the film... it looks like the standard set up of any guy asking a girl out .... I've looked at a few of his other reviews, and they are all pretty off.. but this one is appalling... the main characters in each could not be more different.... superficially similar in they both are in pressure arts, but the similarity ends there....

[@Vekhator]

I went to your channel to see how you handled your analysis. Surprise, surprise, there were no videos.

[@darkseid856]

I liked Black Swan ALOT . It's an underrated Masterpiece . (among audiences , because I rarely see people talking about it ) . I liked whiplash too but I liked Black Swan a bit more .

[@pitbull635]

whiplash was a “hey can i copy your homework but change it up a little” moment

[@joelatkin1214]

@@pitbull635 no that’s definitely not the case, they way that each film told their story and the style they went with in telling it was completely different

[@hydqjuliilq27]

If you like black swan, watch perfect blue, it’s the movie black swan ripped off

[@joelatkin1214]

@@hydqjuliilq27 it really didn’t ‘rip it off’, it took inspiration from perfect blue sure but it nowhere near ripped it off

[@petscopkid]

@@hydqjuliilq27 as someone who watched perfect blue, no it wasn’t really a rip off, there’s quite a few similarities but Black Swan and Perfect Blue are pretty different.

[@theboogieman1307]

whiplash is so emotionally fantastic because of one key aspect for performance. The only way to be spotted by everyone in the audience is either to screw up, or be so good that it catches everyone’s attention. Neiman did both.

[@DashCat9]

Whiplash is an absolute masterclass in storytelling. I remember the hype surrounding it, and then read it was (essentially) about Jazz Drumming. And I think "Who, besides jazz musicians/fans, wants to watch a movie about Jazz Drumming". But the rushing/dragging clip online convinced me to give it a go. Holy shit, did Chazelle make jazz drumming *fascinating*.

[@Kotoba_]

DashCat9 it’s a great film but not as accurate as most people think.

[@rickyricardo9710]

I think Whiplash succeeds cinematically and in its small moments but I wouldn't call it a masterclass in storytelling. I found the story in it to be lacking. I think Black Swan is much better in the storytelling department.

[@bibaolaitan5189]

@@rickyricardo9710 why becos it was creepy...

[@careydyer--musicandmore]

This is not a super-deep, meaningful comment -- but I just wanted to say that I found this very, very interesting and well-done. Thank you.

[@ookry5217]

A simple thank you, but a great one

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

This is for all of you that commented time and time again, "Do Whiplash!!!" (with some Black Swan mixed in, because I love it and they complement each other nicely :P )

[@Mayeur000Donz]

Apparently the guy who made Whiplash said he has a very cynical idea of where Andrew's story would go after the credits roll. Much like his idols, he would die of drug overdose in his thirties, and Fletcher would always think he had won. Do you think this plays a part in the film's message, or do you think it is simply something answered out of curiosity (therefore why it has no mention in the movie)?

[@yeswaystation27]

So glad you made this video. Whiplash is one of my all time favourite movies (along with Pulp Fiction and Se7en) and I really enjoyed this :)

[@zzzeddiezzz7]

I'm not sure if what the artist doesn't put into his art is relevant to understand its meaning. His interpretation of what happens after is as important as yours.

[@mrbadri100]

The synecdoche, new york by Charlie Kaufman and Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind...................please

[@completeandunabridged.4606]

Lessons from the Screenplay But where is a video on amadeus :(

[@Arinaretina]

Your content is just incomparable. Honestly, your insights feel like such a gift to humanity. I hope more people will be able to learn from you and tell better stories that inspire the world.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

You’re too kind! Thank you so much for the comment.

[@phillconklin382]

I'm glad you asked the question "Do the ends justify the means?" because my roommate and I had that conversation. See I don't feel that it does. If doing something evil creates something good, your product is essentially corrupted. We don't grow a garden by taking a match to it, but by water. It's a teacher's job to figure out how to spurn that kind of growth using positive methods. I reference people in history that have inspired people to greatness instead of using fear and abuse as motivators. In the end there are more things that grow in the light than in the dark, unless you are fond of mushrooms and mold.

[@Dokkaebi707]

Very well put.

[@harshhhh8]

I understand what you are trying to say but then again, it's very relative. For some, a single moment of greatness, of absolute perfection and sheer brilliance is worth way too much to be bothered by the means required to get there. It's a form of madness, one that births brilliance.

[@stevenclark5173]

The ends always justify the means. The problem is people don't consider all the ends. Fletcher will be dead of a drug OD in his early 30s and the ballerina will probably end up in a mental institution within 10 years once her body gives out and she has to end her career. So really they sacrificed everything for a few moments of greatness. If they think those moments were worth throwing their lives and humanity away then good for them. Personally I think it's shortsighted and deluded. It's similar to NFL players willing to play for the fame, money, and greatness, despite destroying both their minds and bodies long term.

[@craytoncaswell4558]

I disagree with you, but I am not a humanist and I don't think corruption ofthe type you're talking about - moral corruption - exists outside of humanist cultural norms. There are pros and cons to going to the extreme and living balanced, but which has the higher value, which truly satisfies, can only be answered by the person engaging in it. People are very different. The teacher is an authority figure; trust or don't, but rebelling because it's too hard will never make long-run sense to a driven creator. Great art has been created by what we now call abuse.

[@kylewhitehead1684]

Saw Black Swan on very late night TV a week or so ago and I can not stop thinking about it. Now I'm reading the screenplay. I was inspired by these two films to write my own screenplay about the struggles of a frustrated novelist and the journey to perfect self expression as well as mastery of the craft, and the psychoses of an artist.

[@amandaadeyemi1976]

Kyle Whitehead cant want for iT!

[@judassb9190]

Kyle Whitehead how’s that screenplay going?

[@dijonstreak]

focus on the " psychoses of an Artist......lots of treasures lie there....

[@mackixu]

Would love to hear how this turns out!

[@MCMasters4ever]

How's it going?

[@MemeBaz11824]

This was really great. Both were such amazing movies.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

It's true!

[@aneasybee]

Lessons from the Screenplay Please do 'Birdman'.

[@danielmurray9820]

but the main characters and their story lines are completely different. one is a square peg, the other a round hole.

[@ThomasLWoolsey]

Agreed, Birdman would be terrific

[@magnusm4]

With the action shit coming out it's insane Whiplash suddenly comes out and i'm glad it made big at the box office

[@mehakverma7043]

The ending scene of black swan is the most perfect plot twist scene of all time. “It was me all along”

[@bucketnmop]

The finale to whiplash is goddamn amazing, can't remember the last time a movie made me wanna stand up and cheer, still gives me chills even after repeated viewings.

[@АнатолийАнатолий-п1д]

Haven't seen Whiplash, but in Black Swan those were not quite hallucinations. It doesn't fit if those are hallucinations, but it fits perfectly if those are a metaphor of Nina _becoming_ the Black Swan. It's like her, ugh, inner Black Swan was growing with every tiny conscious change she made, and in the end she didn't kill Lily or her dark self or whatever, she killed the _difference_ between herself and her part she was constantly supressing. She assimilated the supressed part into herself and _became_ new, and that's why her performance was so perfect in the end: it had not only happened in the real life, but it was also happening in parallel _right_ when it was needed by the play. She wasn't yet transformed when she played the innocent White Swan, she was a helpless victim and she felt like one and that's what was emanating from her on the scene; next time she danced - she was finishing the transformation, and the closer it was to the end of that process, the stronger the Black Swan was. Even the final scene of the play fits - the inflexible White Swan is dying, it was killed not by a shred of glass, but by a transformation of a person. You may also notice how Lily and her dark self were interchangeable throughout the whole movie. That's because those were not Lily or hallucinations, those were a metaphor for the supressed energy, for the entity that may not be perfect in its every movement, but is always natural and seducing. Also remember the words 'It's my turn!'. That was the _supressed_ part talking. It was indeed its turn to play and live, but this whole time it was trying to have its way by overpowering the host, so to speak, and killing not the dark part, but the _conflict_ between it and the host made it possible for the two to live and play together. The change didn't _actually_ killed the White Swan, it only killed the _conflict_ , the unwillingness of the White Swan to share, so that the new, transformed person could appear. (Sorry for my English)

[@fatbjpenn]

@@frfras7 bro youve commented this like 5 times 😭

[@kaepiper]

your english is phenomenal!

[@korykent5645]

What...

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

I never would have expected that to end with (sorry for my English), your English is great

[@ohwormalyssa]

@@nidhishshivashankar4885 its so funny seeing ppl comment who dont speak english as their first language because they always speak so proper compared to us I really didnt expect the sorry for my english either LMAO

[@BamMargiela]

That did not feel like 16 minutes. Great video d00d

[@familianie5692]

Squeak G Yeah because the video was not 16:00 long, it was 16:37 seconds long.

[@veshiwa]

what I didn't notice till I read the comment

[@Mandy3141]

I used to be obsessed with Black swan in high school, I would watch it everyday, I was so in love with the symbolism.

[@doridimitrov6821]

Were you okay tho? :o

[@poosypumpkin]

Currently in that era

[@YeahManMillionaire]

I was going to say, "Good job on an excellent video", but I heard Fletcher's voice in my head. So I will simply say, "Excellent".

[@oddfreaks6452]

I gotta say I love how you played both endings to both movies, it’s spooky how similar they are with lights and instant cut to black

[@sepix048]

Cut to white for Black swan, theres even a video from Lftsp about that

[@storytellers1]

Whiplash' end scene still gives me goosebumps, in very different ways than how Darren Aronofsky's films make my skin crawl.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Yes.

[@gudduentertains]

I had a brilliant chemistry teacher who was like Fletcher. He was terror personified for me despite being a great teacher. Though this type of teaching doesn't appeal to me. Whiplash is an amazing movie and JK Simmons just killed in it ❤️

[@ReKonstructor]

Did he cook meth?

[@kenohara53]

I remember renting Black Swan on Netflix (getting the dvd by mail) and my mom saw me watching the movie and she yelled at me thinking it was porno. I think i should watch this movie another time.

[@sidhuloveindia]

Lol

[@valprieto2669]

@Cyanite oh shit you know his mom?

[@aoibheann1857]

Hamlet is literally the exact same structure, mad im about to ace my english essay thanks

[@raspberrycrowns9494]

Why Hamlet? Macbeth maybe but Hamlet?

[@may8876]

For fun, I'll try to guess what he meant as much as I can as its been a while since ive read Hamlet so I dont remember everything. The "inciting incident" in Hamlet would be when he meets his father's ghost; his new goal is to kill his uncle. I'm not sure who his mentor is, but Hamlet's big question is whether he will be able to avenge his father. I think Hamlet has many uncharacteristic actions following this, including his new attitude towards Ophelia and the king. Not sure what his first victory is. His self destruction and descent into madness would be his supposed insanity. He is also hesitant about the murder, taking longer than expected. The crescendo of his madness is killing Ophelia's father. Hamlet has the opportunity to kill his uncle, but waits - he fails his first big moment. The skull scene I think would be him discarding his old self. The true big moment is his duel with Ophelia's brother. Then there's everyone dying with the poison. Hamlet dies but his goal is ultimately obtained - absolute perfection requires absolute sacrifice.

[@J12647]

Whiplash ends with a "happy" ending for Andrew, which was very satisfactory to me. However, someone who wrote about the movie really left me wondering if it was happy at all. Fletcher manages to get his Charlie Parker and although Andrew gave the performance of his life and will probably succeed as a jazz drummer there is a chance he ends up just like Charlie Parker or Fletcher's old student, Casey, who committed suicide.

[@BrynnBeverly]

Jorge Ramirez yeah it may seem that he was playing for himself in the final scene, but the last few seconds really show how Andrew is dangling from Fletcher's thread once again

[@J12647]

When Andrew goes back in the stage he is somehow playing for himself but , like you said, he still is looking for Fletcher's approval.

[@BrynnBeverly]

Jorge Ramirez I suppose it could be looked at two ways. He really is playing for himself and Fletcher's approval justifies Andrew's own confidence, while Andrew remains independent. Or, and this is how I saw it the first time I watched it, he began by playing for himself, but tragically returns to his obsessive self, now becoming once again dependent on fletcher. This ending is much sadder I think and really defines Andrew as a tragic hero, instead of a person who has become independent after Fletcher's abuse. The director even says that he imagined Andrew dying in his 30s of drug overdose just like another drummer he idolized. Do you think that Andrew was independent in the end? I never thought of it any other way but would love some insight

[@J12647]

BM Films The first time I watched the movie I was too amazed at the shots of Andrew playing in the ending that I didn't realize that. I though Andrew would have a happy ending and end in good terms with Fletcher. But, when I thought about it, Andrew is so obsessive and perfectionist that he could push himself a lot harder in the future. I think any other character could have had a good ending. But not Andrew, unless he had another car accident or something like that.

[@J12647]

BM Films Fletcher looks utterly amazed at what he is looking at. He is realizing he finally got what he has probably seeked for years. And JK Simmons's amazing performance shows us something really important. His emotions in that moment are sincere, he is truly excited. I would rather stay with a happy ending and Have Andrew become a successful Jazz artist, who has acknowledged his abilities and satisfied his hunger for perfection, and even develop a friendship with Fletcher because Andrew finally understood why Fletcher abused him. However that can't be the case given Andrew's obsessive personality and that he learnt that "There are no two words in the English language, more harmful than good job"

[@marcocarmona4463]

I honestly think that stress by obsession like on Whiplash and Black Swan rather than their own flaws IE Uncut Gems is the most intimidating and anxious ways to make everything narrow and claustrophobic

[@SteelRaider17]

The difference I felt in watching Whiplash and The Black Swan was that in Whiplash I was glued to the end of the second to the screen. Whiplash soaked up each moment of cinematography and the best thing, the best thing was that it was filmed in such a way, especially Fletcher's scene that I felt as if I were in the frame with the actors. I never felt more power of a film but in Black Swan especially during the psychotically charged scenes. I remember one very vividly when Nina comes home and the pictures in her bedroom are moving and turning into something horrific, I wanted to tear my eyes away from the screen. In conclusion, both films have a different kind of hold over their audiences and that is what makes them different although the plot of the obsessed artist may match.

[@willvaneck2145]

Yup. He scored a 5 on his AP Lang test.

[@eh-ht9in]

These movies look so heartbreaking

[@cadeplaisance3169]

Psychology and philosophy came together to make these movies great. Very under-rated.

[@elamamkoulu3871]

Yo, this shit is incredible. Almost perfection. The way you have deconstructed and point out the similarities and differences between the two movies is so insightful. Your delivery is so inviting, clear and empathizing. The transitions are amazingly smooth, yet there is clear division. The simplistic visual elements look good yet allow the movies to shine. The flow of this all is marvelous. Keep up the good work! Also, I appreciate the subtitles!

[@samueltan2148]

I can relate to you when you said "a video like this takes a lot of work". I study media at college and even a movie analysis comparison isn't easy to write. Great job btw, and do appreciate your rather professional analysis of these two movies.

[@javimarrero94]

This comes from a Media and Audiovisual Communication student: I have learned more with your videos and lessons than with all the lessons I've had in University. You, Michael, are helping create the best school for film and screenwriting in the world. Thank you.

[@youtubeaccount6321]

I hope you're doing great with that!

[@truejukes4958]

I was in a high school jazz band with a director similar to fletcher. The feeling I had watching Whiplash was chilling. Years removed from it, I still have the cold feeling of dread that came with dealing with a director who was willing to push his students to the end for his view of perfection.

[@buildings_and_food]

I disagree with placing the edge of Neiman's madness in Act 2. There is a distinctive unsettlingness to his final performance -- it is supposed to be triumphant, but he's looking Fletcher right in the eyes, being pulled along by him. Fletcher has discovered that, in fact, yes - Neiman can be manipulated, and turns his stubbornnes to his own ends. There is no way the story can go following the end of the film, but for Neiman to fulfill the same price of a greatness that his predecessor did - another spent shell of Fletcher's making. There is a moment in that final performance where the cymbal washes out the rest of the sound, close-ups on Neiman's face. That is the final annihilation of himself -- and all the way up to it, he is hanging from Fletcher's thread. It was just the final test -- a dark god asking, "Even if I deny you, will you still come groveling back?" To me, Whiplash's ending marked the deep end of Neiman's obsession; even when he should have known better, he still depended on Fletcher's acceptance in order to discard mediocrity. Loved your video as always

[@jabayzaballa8581]

buildings and food Excellent analysis!

[@warxdrum]

isn't it another point of breaking himself in act 3 where he has to accept that he has to make a deal with the devil? I also think that Fletcher is just as into it as Neiman is. He may have used this as a test but this is the first time someone passed it. He thinks he has a new genius under his control. This could break the usual power balance between them, but I think that Neiman will stay with him rather than leave and work with another conductor that would treat him better, because his greatness is bound to Fletcher in his mind.

[@buildings_and_food]

warxdrum Yep. Fletcher knows in his heart that Neiman could go off and do literally anything he wanted with his talent; yet tragically, he also knows, that Neiman DOESN'T know that. Neiman, for the entire movie, sees only what is right in front of him. It's his strength but the movie strongly implies it will make him as dead as Nina in Black Swan.

[@What-fx5dm]

Agree. I did not felt sense of completion in final scene of Whiplash too. Video said his father was astounded but I felt heartbroken sense of loss. He senses he lost his son to Fletcher. Neiman is more vulnerable than ever at that point.

[@sindle36]

This is one of the most fantastic videos I've seen on KZbin. I was completely in the zone with you, your story telling and love your analysis. Just.... wow.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

[@TheodorKirk]

This is a very good and thorough analysis. As a man who has seen Whiplash approximately a 100 times (Not kidding, I've spent about 7 days of my life on this film) I can say for sure that you hit many of the right points. Some correction though. I've had the honor of talking about the film with Damian Chazelle, writer and director of both the short and feature film, and I discussed with him the 3rd arch and "victor" of the scene as you mentioned. Fletcher is the definite Victor by the end of the third arc. To create the next Charlie Parker was his plan all along and Neimann has always been his instrument, just like Tanner was never actually a consideration for the starting drummer spot in studio band, but a way to push Neimann. When Fletcher tricks him at the last concert he knows that Andrew is gonna return to the stage, because he has the determination and willpower to come back and overtake the concert for himself, even tho he actually overtakes it for Fletcher. A subtle detail to watch out for in the film is the color of Andrews clothes throughout the movie. He starts out wearing white in the first scene, but the later we progress into the film and after more encounters with Fletcher, he's clothes starts to turn darker, and at the end of the film, his clothes are all black, Symbolizing the determination of the art and the overtaking Fletcher has taken of his life. (This can also be seen in the pause period he has of 6 months, when he goes back to wearing white/light colors, and then back to black again when he gets the concert gig). All of this is why Flecther wins Whiplash, and Andrew is the loser. Because at the end Fletcher gets his wish. He gets his Charlie Parker. And at the start of the film, Andrew didn't want to become "The Greatest", "The Next Bird". That idea is all Fletcher. And that is also why Neimanns father doesn't look in awe. He looks in Horror. Because he knows that the tormenting teacher has won and that his son will now die at the age of 34, with no friends, but will be remembered as one of the greatest jazz musicians of all time. Apart from my rambling, I loved your analysis, and you got so many things right. Im glad i found your channel, and i will be following from now on :)

[@alphen9487]

Watch black swan its pretty disturbing

[@alphen9487]

Literally I couldn't stop thinking about it for like a week

[@TheodorKirk]

Haha yes i have seen Black Swan. I dont find it disturbing, but a very different film from whiplash. Where Whiplash deals with psychological torment, Black swan deals with mental ilness in a very serious Way, even tho the premise of the obsessed artist is the same

[@slowit9478]

ALL i will say is Perfect Blue is the inspiration for black swan and it should be here as well

[@CheeseDud]

This is such a great video. At the risk of using dangerous language, good job!

[@josepabloarellano9171]

hahaha

[@UnorthodoxReviews]

There are no two words in the English language more harmful than "good job"

[@basedbattledroid3507]

Cheesedud6 Lol, I just came across this as Fletcher said that!!

[@marichristian1072]

Perfect "compare and contrast". Where have all the challenging films gone? 2016 has been a desert.

[@talkingmovies6732]

La La Land. But it takes a much lighter tone than Whiplash and Black Swan, but that theme is very front and center.

[@marichristian1072]

Thanks. Will watch.

[@SandKeats]

Mari Christian Divines, the french movie, was great.

[@marichristian1072]

Thanks. might take a while but I'll try to get it on Netflix.

[@Winchestro]

"The OA"?

[@mareksarluska4380]

Birdman, The Social Network, Good Will Hunting, Donnie Darko, The Shawshank Redemption, Inthoubchables, The Hunt, Seven, American Psycho, Stevej Jobs, Prisoners, Drive, The Perks of Being a Wallflower, Shutter Island, The Ides of March, Zodiac, The Place Beyond the Pines, The Nice Guys, Americn History X, any Tarantino movie

[@christinechapsal2262]

there's no comparison one is mad , the other is passionate , we only have one thing in common thing : pain

[@turtlesama9476]

Not gonna lie, this video itself gave me the chills the movies were able to give me...quality video content

[@megacooldude3010]

This video was a movie in and of itself

[@AmazingJoe96]

that was bloody interesting

[@RogueMoJo]

Thanks