The Wild Bunch - Men Out Of Time

[@pamboskourtoulos5239]

I watched the Wild Bunch in 1970, I took my brother and cousin to see it at our local. They were moaning it was just another western.........we were the last ones to leave the cinema, we stayed till the end watching all the credits. The cleaner told us to go...but we didn't. The 60s came in with a bang, The Magnificent Seven, The Alamo tp name a few, and ended with True Grit, Butch and Sundance...and the Wild Bunch. I am 69 years old Tony, and I feel the same sometimes Men out of Time. It IS in my mind the greatest western and in the top five best films i have ever seen. Good review. Washers.

[@tonybush555]

I know what you mean, Pambos. I don't know what it says about me, but even though I was a kid when I first saw it, I identified with the themes even then. Like I had an inkling about my own future. And here I am. Thanks for your comments and ongoing support. Appreciated. T.

[@emiliokcalvillo]

😊

[@thatguyfromcetialphaV]

A hell of a film, one dad shared with me just before my 13th birthday. Life changing.

[@tonybush555]

It did - and still does - provide a different perspective on myth and violence. Thanks, that guy. T.

[@johntaylorson7769]

Ace review/loveletter to a timeless, brilliant movie. "Let's go." Always- always- puts a smile on my face.

[@tonybush555]

With you all the way, John.

[@nicholasbrock1600]

As much as I enjoy discovering new films based on your reviews, it's good to hear the appreciation for the absolute classics. Thanks Tony!

[@tonybush555]

More than welcome, Nicholas. Thank you. T.

[@johnsnadden4173]

Sam Peckinpah's masterpiece. And my favourite all-time film. Adding now to that, one of the best reviews of The Wild Bunch I've heard or seen. Thank-you, Tony. Brilliant stuff!

[@tonybush555]

Thank you, John. Good to hear from you. Glad you enjoyed. T.

[@jonsimpson9640]

Another brilliant review and great style as ever, 'The Wild Bunch' is a true classic.

[@tonybush555]

Appreciate your commenting, Jon. Thanks. T.

[@yanncarduner4516]

Thanks Tony Bush you nailed it!Great homage to one of my most cherished movies .Definitive masterpiece:powerful,violent ,sad,not for the faint of heart .Graced with a beautiful soundtrack by Jerry Fielding .I saw it in Paris 2 months ago,brilliant as always .In the end you cry when The Wild Bunch dies because you've been rooting for them during the whole movie

[@tonybush555]

Many Thanks, Yann. T.

[@yanncarduner4516]

@@tonybush555 you're welcome

[@jatinderdevgun9093]

Work of art. Loved the review. Feel like watching it again 😊

[@tonybush555]

Thanks for your comment, Jatinder. Appreciated. T.

[@jatinderdevgun9093]

My pleasure Tony! I've seen it twice this year...... The bird metaphor.......The bird is attached to a string and cant break free.....just like Angel. @@tonybush555

[@hank964]

I read that Lee Marvin was offered the Pike role instead he appeared in Paint your own Wagon(1969) which everyone knows how that film turn out. The John Wayne movie Big Jake (1971) have some similarities turn of the century the old west disappearing etc but of course this film is a absolute masterpiece and I revered the cast from this film then today's so called actors who can't hold a candle to those great actors. Always enjoy your KZbin videos very entertaining

[@graemewilson7975]

Another great review of true classic western and cinema. First saw a truncated version in late seventies on TV , not that you can cut the violence without undermining the whole structure. Saw again in mid eighties in a more restored version -pike doing a runner flashback in and all violence restored. I was stunned by both versions. Peckinpah understood how violence worked on the screen-a skill that is limited to a small number of directors either living or dead. Holden's possibly finest role-the boozing he showing on his prematurely aged face borgnine reining in his ott performances and giving Dutch depth and a slyly malicious grin. Johnson and Oates brilliantly cast as repellent criminals (Oates wife divorced him after he showed his loyalty by working for Peckinpah rather than saving their marriage), Ryan also looking frail and very thin in an ambiguous role not a villain or hero somewhere between the two. And the finale often copied never bettered --even in Extreme Prejudice Walter hills love letter to Peckinpah. Great review glad you are back and that terrible vanilla fella passing himself of as you gone A tru

[@tonybush555]

The vanilla guy won't be back - wasn't keen on him. Thanks very much, Graeme. T.

[@Stonez]

I saw this on a TCM package a while back. It was one of three features that focused on Robert Ryan specifically. I would be lying if I said it didn’t leave some kind of impact on me, both in a technical and emotional sense. The editing during the beginning and ending shootouts are fantastic; they are some of the best I’ve ever seen. By the time it was over, I couldn’t say I was surprised by the outcome, but it still made me sad. I’ve been thinking about getting this film physically because it’s definitely one I’m going to rewatch in the future.

[@tonybush555]

It was a great disappointment to me when TCM, which had been available for the longest time through Sky, stopped broadcasting in the UK. I miss it. Thanks for commenting, Stonez. Appreciated. T.

[@LarryGonzalez00]

I hate to disagree with you Tony but I must. You are perfectly suited to add your unique voice to those that have reviewed this mighty classic. I love this film, I look forward to and enjoy your insightful and entertaining reviews.

[@tonybush555]

Thank you very much, Larry. Appreciated. T.

[@Philbert-s2c]

Fun fact: a 100 years later Lyle and Tector Gorch would make a reappearance as vampires in an episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." It took me 20 years to make that connection. I am deeply ashamed.

[@hookalakah]

I concur--one of the very best American films ever.

[@tonybush555]

Got it in one. Many thanks. T.

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

The laugh at the end is the best

[@tonybush555]

Oh yeah.

[@johnkim163]

The last walk was not part of the original script. Sam told his AD “ I want to do a walk thing “ This was pure genius in action.

[@tonybush555]

No disagreement from me. Thanks for commenting, johnkim163. T.

[@michaellazzeri2069]

This film was Robert Ryan's final film. He died from lung cancer, in 1971. Ryan was 61 y/o, when the film was released , & possibly, he knew he had a cancer for which there is no cure. William holden had become an alcoholic, & desperately needed work. And even though Lee Marvin was 1st choice, he passed, Holden was hired at 53 y/o, & now, it is impossible to imagine anyone else as Pike Bishop. the role of Dutch Engstron was originally for Jack Palance, but he too, passed & Borgnine got the part ----------again, a smart choice, as he too, was perfectly cast.----------This film is a masterpiece, from start to end , & THE best western ever made. -------------MJL< 77 y/o

[@tonybush555]

To a large extent the film was an elegy to the passing of a time in history and the men of that time. By turns sad, melancholic, but steadfast and true. The older I get, the more resonant it becomes. Yes, Michael, it could be the best western ever made, one that evolves with age. Many thanks for commenting. Appreciated. T.

[@teessideman.8253]

Totally agree 👍

[@tonybush555]

@@teessideman.8253 👍

[@ranchokitty1]

No it wasn't Ryan's last film, the last one was, The Outfit with Robert Duvall and Joe Don Baker, where he/Ryan played the bad guy and after Duvall kills him at the end he tells his henchmen, 'you guys are unemployed'.

[@AbrasiousProductions]

I have regrettably not seen this film yet, so when I do rest assured I'll come back to this review👍

[@yanncarduner4516]

go for it it's an amazing classic I guess you won't regret it!

[@AbrasiousProductions]

@@yanncarduner4516 the plot alone reeks of qualities I love in cinema

[@yanncarduner4516]

@@AbrasiousProductions same here

[@Eslzr88]

I watched it when I was heavy into red dead redemption 2, I see where Rockstar got their inspiration for the game

[@OrdnanceLab]

Great review on one of my absolute favorite movies.

[@tonybush555]

Thank you for commenting, OrdnanceLab. T.

[@michaellazzeri2069]

On a Friday night in July of '69, I went alone, as I preferred to do, to old downtown Denver, to the Paramount theater., to see the 8PM showing of " The Wild Bunch ". The reviewer in the AM paper both loved & hated the film, & it aroused my interest, as a lover of both cinema & the cinema western, all my life. .I was 21 y/o, heading to 22 in September. --------After seeing the film the 1st time, I sat through it again, for the 10:30 PM showing, As I sat through the end credits, & was the very last to leaver, I realized I had seen a true Masterpiece ; a film truly, an unforgettable experience. And, I understood the themes of the closing of the old west, & loyalty, among men. This was a true man's film, about men, made by men, for men only. Women were not at all, part of any positive equation ; indeed, they were betrayers, & whores----------pretty much how Peckinpah saw the female gender. But for myself, I was mesmerized, & over the summer, saw the film 4 more times. It is , IMO, THE best Western ever made. Indeed, it is my All-time #2 film. The cast was perfect ; knowing later that Lee Marvin & Jack Palance turned down the roles of Pike Bishop & Dutch Engstrom, I was only too happy they did ; Oscar winners Holden & Borgnine were perfect. -------------This is a film to savor -----timeless in every way. To paraphrase Pike Bishop : I WOUDN'T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY ! " ----------------Neither, would I . --------------------------MJL, 78 y/o

[@tonybush555]

Michael, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to post your comment. Really enjoyed reading about your experiences regarding The Wild Bunch. Agree with your sentiments. Very much appreciated. T.

[@tomsenior7405]

Nice one Tony. Thank you. Cheers. Compared to the stuff we see today, this film seems rather cartoonish. I thought the outcry against all the graphic violence at the time of the film's release was hypocritical. As you said Tony, I was able to see real people being killed every day on the news while I ate my Puffa Puffa Rice. But I had to wait a decade before I could see the pretend action as depicted in 'The Wild Bunch'. It still doesn't make sense to me today. At the age of 9 years old, our school took us to see Titus Andronicus at a Theatre in Leeds. The actors used buckets of pigs' blood. Everyone called it "culture". We called it "Fantastic".

[@tonybush555]

Thanks for commenting, Tom. Your input is always appreciated. T.

[@docsmithdc]

It was at it's root about FREEDOM .

[@ranchokitty1]

I went to the 20th Anniversary screening in Hollywood, Beverly and Fairfax in 1989 (with a new print), Bo Hopkins and a lesser known bounty hunter showed up and a fun time was had by all!

[@tonybush555]

Sounds immense. Thanks. T.

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

One of my favorites. Its very interesting hearing thoughts about it from of a foreign perspective.

[@tonybush555]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. T.

[@rickyj5547]

My favourite Western.

[@tonybush555]

Thanks for commenting, Ricky J. Appreciated. T.

[@darrellborland119]

An excellent film, and yes, it defined the ultimate, in 1969. Holden and Peckinpah were hung over next morning at the press introduction. LOL. P S: Our narrator utilized a bit of PC during his descriptions, but the film scenes triumphed, in spite of his accent... LOL. Thanks.

[@tonybush555]

PC? Accent? Really?

[@ronaldneal387]

Another great review tb. But there is a director's cut to the film I didn't know about that. Is a great story about the times of changing. No film has replicate that ever since then The only film is probably close to it is heat from 1995. But the ending to this movie is one of most violent movie ever and best directed and best written.

[@tonybush555]

For perspective-bending, films that came close, but in different ways, I'd cite Ralph Nelson's Soldier Blue and Eastwood's Unforgiven. Thank you for commenting, Ronald. T.

[@chrishoward4432]

Tony, you da man! For my money this is your best piece and I raise my hat to you, bro. Glad you overcame your reluctance to tackle TWB because you nailed it good 'n proper. I'll send you a bag of washers in lieu of $$$ I don't think that Mike Siegel could have done any better. Well done, T.

[@tonybush555]

Thanks, Chris. Those washers will come in handy if I can ever afford to turn on the taps again. Appreciated. T.

[@jean-pierrechoquet2909]

A master piece ! I lobe this movie ! From Belgium ! 27/6/24 !

[@tonybush555]

Thank you for commenting, Jean-Pierre. Appreciated. T.

[@brettpeacock9116]

Some critics also found the elegaic farewell to the village too cliche, but that was the whole point of it. In the US, the west was dying fast, But in a Mexico this was the start of a new "Mythological Era" - the Mexican Revolution, where Sykes and Thornton would still find purpose. It also embodied the crucial line from the village. "We all dream of😮 being children again.... the worst of us, perhaps most of all"

[@tudyk21]

I don't know that I'm smart enough about movies to call WB a masterpiece, but it's damned sure iconic.

[@tonybush555]

Thanks for commenting, tudyk21. Appreciated. T.

[@tudyk21]

@@tonybush555 the movie stands head and shoulders and probably belt line above "Big Jake" and "McClintock", which, to me, a just goofy.

[@moose6509]

Most geniuses come with a caveat of being mildly insane. Peckinpah ticks all the boxes. Is this his masterpiece? Maybe, but then at least 3 or 4 of his other films could claim the title, depending on your mood. Superb review Tony.

[@tonybush555]

I really miss creatives like Peckinpah, Aldrich, Siegel. That maverick spirit and renegade resolve, that vision and personality. Once a time we looked up to giants. Now, down to a bunch of short arses. Shame. Thank for commenting, Moose. Appreciated. T.

[@moose6509]

@@tonybush555 Absolutely spot on T.

[@richardwebster8416]

This is a truly great film. I rewatched it again last night and, for all the blood and thunder, it has never seemed more poignant and elegaic.

[@tonybush555]

On a personal level, Richard, it changed the way I thought about the western and the old west. Thanks for commenting. T.

[@Malt454]

The movie's an essay about pride, whether it's a sin, or a person's last and most defining characteristic, or probably both. Pike sets this up with his speech about the railroad's Harrigan, but Pike can no more change his ways than Harrigan can - no one in the movie changes their ways willingly, or even learns from their experiences. Deke Thornton changes his loyalties, but only on the surface, and regrets even that throughout the movie, wishing that he was with the men he is hunting. Angel, being the youngest, is the most extreme example of pride as a motivator, but the Bunch ultimately go to their deaths, not because of what others think of them, but because of what they think of themselves after giving Angel to General Mapache. The idea that the violence of the final shootout should be cathartic is understandable, but it's also undercut by the presentation of The Wild Bunch's showdown with General Mapache as being heroic and redeeming - it's "good" violence done for a noble cause, not presented as simply the end of violent characters who must go out violently because they are too proud to change who and what they are. If The Wild Bunch are actually heroes - and the movie does try to have its cake and eat it too on this very point - then we learn as little from their experiences as they do, and so, once again, pride (and shame) is both a good and bad thing. Pride goeth before a fall but, in The Wild Bunch, it's who and what you're falling for that matters.

[@tonybush555]

Excellent comment and perspective, Malt454, and and one I enjoyed reading. Thanks for your input. Appreciated. T.

[@Malt454]

@@tonybush555 - Thank you. With the early scene with the kids, ants and scorpions, I think it's also possibly Peckinpah's comment on violence and the film audience itself; we, too, are about to see the outnumbered Bunch (the scorpions) fight and ultimately be taken down by scores of lesser creatures ( Mapache's Army, represented by the ants), and, like the kids, we are observing it all as a form of entertainment. If the kids seem cruel, we are really no better than the kids because we're just watching gladiatorial combat on a different scale, albeit simulated. If we have questions about the kids, we should also have questions about ourselves.

[@tonybush555]

@@Malt454 Peckinpah sort of revisited it in Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid, big kids (adults) taking potshots at chickens buried in the sand up to their necks. People don't change?

[@Malt454]

@@tonybush555 - Yes, Peckinpah was trying to teach a lesson through his art, but apparently ended up learning one instead. According to Wikipedia: "Peckinpah used violence as a catharsis, believing his audience would be purged of violence by witnessing it explicitly on screen. He later admitted to being mistaken, observing that the audience came to enjoy rather than be horrified by his films' violence, which troubled him." In the end, he couldn't row the boat against the tide on the subject of vicarious violence: "It's a terrible, ugly thing, and yet there's a certain response that you get from it, an excitement, because we're all violent people." I give him credit, though, to at least question why and whether violence should be seen as popular entertainment and should be the core of the American movie Western art form, even though it's almost impossible to imagine without violence. Peckinpah was asking good questions in an era when these things were simply taken for granted without reflection; he just ran into some disappointing answers (much like Jimmy Stewart's character in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance). Good observation about the chickens, by the way; as with The Wild Bunch, the subject of the entertainment is trapped with nowhere to go, while others just wait to watch their inevitable fate "for sport". Are they any more trapped physically than we seem to be trapped psychologically by wanting to do/see these things?

[@barrylucas8679]

Men out of time, psychopaths out of time maybe.

[@normanby100]

The scenes in the village are idyllic by choice to show what Angel wants to defend and the potential happy life Pike gave up when he lost his woman. And now Pike wants to betray it to Mapache. All this comes back to haunt him as he realises the squalid reality of his life in the brothel.

[@vitorafmonteiro]

Don't know what you think, but I'd say punk was the last youth revolt WHICH REACHED ITS AIMS SOMEWHAT (actually creating its artistic style, creating its aesthetic niche, establishing its anarchistic niche outside the more mainstream left and to create a tone within the opposition to the decay of the post-war welfare and the rise of monetarist and prude conservatism after the end of the western prosperity of the 1950s and the counterculture of the 1960s), but grunge could probably be seen as the last great (working class culture) attempt at it that just failed to reach its aims because the context wasn't favourable: the 1990s, like the 1950s were a time of economic growth and consumerism after democracy defeating a totalitarian system, now communism instead of fascism, so basically grungers were trying to have the 1960s in a 1950s-like era (that one Nirvana music video where they appear as a 1950s band ended up being quite prescient on how in the era of MTV and mass consumption a rebel band would have to end in terms of public reaction to it), and that being pat in the head patronisingly as silly buggers by the system ended up killing or wearing out grungers till they got older and mellower (if something like it had appeared in the War on Terror and Great Recession 2000s, it might have panned out different than the littler and more "poppy" or way too niche protest music we did get during that decade). But the taming of youth culture was kind of inevitable, even before the blow-up of the 1960s the mainstream was already p*mping youth rebelliousness in the 1950s (as commercial rockabilly and studio films like the James Dean ones and Brando's "The Wild One" show).

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

Yeah the Neo hippy movement of the 90s really really vapid. Heck they even had their own Woodstock but that one was just a nightmare

[@tonybush555]

A great deal of relevant perspective is dependent upon where you lived geographically in the world. The fifties in the UK were a time of stark grey austerity, rationing was still a thing, Britain was financially busted after the war, cities still had bomb sites and craters, derelict buildings and crippled infrastructure scarring them. The sixties were only glamorous and swinging for a small number of people in and around London. Elsewhere in the country not so much, it was pretty much a continuation of the fifties. The seventies, however, was even worse - industrial action, power-cuts, mass unemployment, escalating crime, civil unrest. I was a kid then and educated by sadists with a penchant for corporal punishment and cruelty. But it seemed normal to us. Like what do you have to compare it to? The great thing about UK Punk is for a time it worried the establishment. The last musician to get banned in Britain previously was Alice Cooper who the so called “moral majority” thought a threat to the delicate sensibilities of the youth of the country, a corrupting influence. One of his tours was prevented from taking place as a result. Punk, The Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned, The Stranglers, were getting banned all over the place. Prohibited from playing gigs in certain towns and cities, BBC DJs self-righteously refused to play certain records on their radio shows, questions were raised in Parliament about how to deal with these foul-mouthed and degenerate “animals.” So, they had to be doing something right. The establishment were momentarily petrified. For the last time, though, because Punk burned out quickly, and plunged into self-parody to the point where it became a cheap novelty. For a while though, it was fantastic and although I initially recoiled from it, soon found it to be a life-defining phenomenon. It was a movement that spoke to me, something I could identify with, music that spoke of things that interested me. Not some progressive rock baloney about wizards and fairies and hobbits and crap that was utterly meaningless. Grunge didn’t have the same impact in the UK. Nirvana and Pearl Jam were popular enough bands, but nothing the political intelligentsia felt threatened by or concerned about. An American import that sparked hardly a glitch on the threat radar. In the short term, yes, I think Punk over here at least achieved a reconfiguration of pop culture whilst delivering a few well-placed jolts to some deserving targets. I maintain it was the last youth movement to succeed in doing this in Britain - after which we had stuff like the New Romantics and Brit-Pop. All well and good, but about as threatening as Shirley Temple.

[@MrRich1810]

Thanks

[@user-vg5rv5xf4u]

Great film.

[@tonybush555]

Yes.

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

Great film great review mate. My fave is old Freddie Sykes

[@tonybush555]

Thanks, Wayne. It's a remarkable performance from Edmond O'Brien. Who was just starting to struggle with the onset of Alzheimer's Disease.

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

Yeah he liked a drink like most of us with some Irish in us@@tonybush555

[@tarvisponsdebeaumont794]

Personally, I rate TWB one of the 3 best films ever made (all of them epic films in more than one sense: Lawrence of Arabia and 2001 a Space Odyssey). Definitely the best American film by far: it has EVERYTHING. Of course, like all masterpiece it takes bits and pieces from older masterpieces (Seven Samurai and Treasure of the Sierra Madre immediately come to mind) but adds that extra quantum that makes it the best of the bunch....

[@steadfastandyx4947]

I struggle to accept to myself that this is not my favourite Peckinpah film. Yes ; Straw dogs and Convoy is worse. I prefer others : Getaway, Pat Garrett, Head of Garcia, Elite, Junior. Best is Ride the High Country. Brilliance. I'm sure I'm wrong every way. The Charlton Heston film cannot be considered. Osterman?

[@tonybush555]

You're not wrong, steadfastandy, it's a personal thing, personal preference, individual taste, so there's no right or wrong in this particular scenario. My favourite top three Peckinpah films run Bunch, Dogs, Cross. Go figure. T.

[@steadfastandyx4947]

@@tonybush555 I'm mortified I forgot Cross of Iron. Also above Bunch. Cheers

[@MrRich1810]

Thanks

[@tonybush555]

Many thanks for your generosity, Richard. I value your continued support. Thank you. T.