William Lane Craig Misrepresents Deconstruction | A Case Study in Willful Ignorance

William Lane Craig recently gave a baffling, apparently confused answer to a question about deconstruction and what's causing it. You've probably seen it around.
Today I'm going to break down in detail what was asked of him and how he answered. in short, his answer shows him to be either ignorant of deconstruction to an extent that seems to be willful, or else just plain lying about it. It also reveals that his entire apologetics schtick is just completely empty.
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[@tcuisix]

The world isn't biblically consistent. The bible isn't even biblically consistent.

[@travis1240]

Yeah he seems to want you to just give up trying and say "what the hell, Jesus".

[@riluna3695]

@@travis1240 To be fair, when I read the bible, I often say "What the hell, Jesus?!", so maybe he's onto something.

[@tjenadonn6158]

​@@riluna3695"Jesus fucking Christ, Jesus."

[@moodyrick8503]

Yes indeed. Christianity : _A house divided._ As evidenced by thousands of versions/denominations, that come to all kinds of contradictory conclusions, about God & Jesus.

[@scottneusen9601]

Willfull ignorance or blatant dishonesty? Heck, why not both

[@billmcdonald4335]

How does 'blatant, willful, dishonest ignorance' sound? Too wordy for me. I call it Billshit.

[@GomuGear4]

He puts the Will in willful ignorance

[@UranusKiller]

Billy Ignoramus

[@skepticusmaximus184]

​@@billmcdonald4335 Nice.😊 Or Bill Shitartist.

[@1970Phoenix]

For me, it is more likely willful ignorance. BUT to remain willfully ignorant when the information is available with a couple of mouse clicks is in itself a form of dishonesty. It's more than just sheer laziness - its a proactive choice to NOT be informed about the topic.

[@user-yx2ux7kx3r]

I spent 20 years trying to convince myself Christianity is true. People like Craig have no clue, and don't want one.

[@travis1240]

The weird thing is you can almost sense that he doesn't believe it either. I mean he already says that he has to lower his standards for evidence in order to believe it.

[@user-fq9ij4we4r]

@user-yx2ux7kx3r Christianity isn't the problem. Peoples perspective of Christianity is the problem.

[@thomasridley8675]

Well since there has never been a unified christian religion. Which one of the over 30,000 christian truths is the one truth ? Obviously the answer is "none".

[@OceanusHelios]

@@user-fq9ij4we4r Superstitious Bronze Age thinking is ALWAYS the problem.

[@user-fq9ij4we4r]

@@OceanusHelios Well don't do that. I never have.

[@CharlesPayet]

When I first heard -No Bar Bill- WLC say, “I don’t care about feelings…” I died laughing. How can he be so bleeping not self-aware enough to remember when he said that BS about his “inner witness,” which is obviously nothing y more than FEELINGS! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@ritawing1064]

How do you do that thing with a line through words, please? I don't know how, and I can see it comes in handy.

[@danielkirienko1701]

Because he conceives of the Holy Spirit as being external and feelings as being internal. Hence to him they are two completely different things. I think he's wrong, but it doesn't take much (or cost much) to at least try to understand.

[@CharlesPayet]

@@ritawing1064 just put a hyphen right before the first word and right after the last word, no spaces in between. Use an asterisk for *BOLD* and underscore for _italics._

[@CharlesPayet]

@@danielkirienko1701 WLC has been around long enough, and professes his intelligence and knowledge of philosophy loudly enough, that I am 100% confident that he knows better. I see no reason at all to give him any benefit of the doubt.

[@JohnM-cd4ou]

Just like how feeling like a woman doesn't make you a woman, feeling like you have an imaginary sky daddy doesn't make you have an imaginary sky daddy

[@EatHoneyBeeHappy]

I wonder if there's a single person who left Christianity who Craig would not say had a brain-dead Christian faith.

[@user-fq9ij4we4r]

I've been called brain dead, illogical, stupid, nuts and fkd up when I became a former atheist. Becoming anti-athiest Is my choice. I don't wanna be involved with the anti-christ.

[@thedeebo410]

Craig continues playing the bagpipes alone.

[@rhecb]

That is possibly the most deliberately dishonest and offensive thing Craig has ever said. I felt sorry for Paulogia and contempt for Craig

[@HarryNicNicholas]

him saying that about someone like paulogia shows how brain dead lane craig is.

[@LeoVital]

When you have a belief system that makes such universal claims like “Every single person on Earth has to repent or they’ll go to Hell”, you’re kinda forced to treat ex-Christians like that. Christianity doesn’t allow people saying that others can have different experiences with it.

[@freeparsons7115]

"Deconstruction", a.k.a. "UNdoctrination"

[@martinnyberg71]

3:22 😂😂😂 Craig is *_infamous_* for saying that he “knows” christianity is “true” because of how he is made to *_feel_* in his “heart” by a magical ghost. 😄 And now “feelings are irrelevant”! Own goal mate. Own goal. ⚽️🤭👍🏻

[@HarryNicNicholas]

💯

[@Napoleonic_S]

That low bar bill meme is the only thing you need to understand about him.

[@justinhart2831]

I was just about to comment this! Thanks! Also 4:55 Zod addresses it too

[@hidden546]

I’m a recent ‘deconvert’ I was a Christian for 30 years. I was born into a non denominational Christian family, but about 15 years in I started studying and consuming as much apologetics as possible. I read the Bible and always kept the stories that didn’t make sense in the back of my mind. I would answer contradictions and stories that didn’t make sense by appealing to the mystery of God or my lack of fallible human knowledge. I learned about evolution from pastors and because I was always in the church it acted like an echo chamber. I was fully convinced atheists are people who just want to sin. 4-5 years ago I really started to question my Christian experience. Where is God? Why won’t he answer me? How come I’ve never witnessed a miracle? I would hear about other Christian’s experiencing limbs being regrown at these missionary trips and speaking in tongues. I never bought it. I was so skeptical with everything that was supernatural but never applied skepticism to my own set of beliefs. I believed myself to be rational but realized I apply rationality to all things except my own belief. 3 years ago I stopped going to church - I did have a bad experience. I prayed really hard to save someone and please have an amazing message and speak through the pastor today. The sermon was on finances and why the church needs to give more money. It really offput my friend as well as me. I was so sick of wasting an hour every week for these random give more money sermons. I was so confused why my church and pastor were so adamant about Christian living is about modeling Jesus and the Old Testament was fulfilled in him, and we don’t have to keep the law. Yet, in the same breath, the only law we keep is tithing. It never made sense to me the push for tithing and abandon everything else. After I stopped going to church I realized nothing changed. My life looked the same. I started to beg God to speak to me or give me any sign. Nothing. I started to really question why is God so active in the Bible but not today? Why are there miracles all throughout the Bible but none today? If God existed, and he loved me, why was he absent in my greatest time of need? When I questioned everything and started to deconstruct there was nothing but silence just like there always was. I realized my whole Christian experience was nothing more than Bible belief, not God belief. We believe what the BIBLE says about the world, God, etc. Christian’s believe in the Bible. I think all Christian’s know deep down there is no God. Yet because the Bible says there is, there must be. We hold the Bible with such reverence but fail to actually question why trust it in the first place? As I stated to investigate the Bible and it’s history along with everything else, I realized how much of it we can’t trust. That was the beginning of the end for me. Now that I’m fully deconverted, I see it all for what it is. I see every single problem with the Bible and belief in a loving all powerful God. Craig is dishonest. Just like every other Christian.

[@CharlesPayet]

@@hidden546 bravo! I always enjoy reading, listening to, and watching deconstruction stories. We all have so many similar experiences, it’s really affirming when you hear of others experiencing the same. My deconversion happened 20 years ago though.

[@jaxnaturals]

Great story! Glad you found your way on your terms

[@utubepunk]

Welcome to the other side. Now you can live your life for you!

[@hidden546]

The best part about it all, as someone who truly was a born again Christian for almost all my life, when I tell people I left and deconverted. The answer I get is “You were never really a Christian” Hearing that shit is not only so disheartening, but it just reaffirms my position that if I WASNT a true Christian, than nobody is. Every time I hear someone tell me that shit I know for a fact it’s just a man made belief. I’ll literally hear that shit from recent converts who haven’t even opened their Bible. It’s like I went to school for this, I know the Bible better than you do. I lived this for 30 years. I sacrificed everything to please God. I was never a true christian? Lol It’s hard not to be bitter, religion really is poison

[@VaughanMcCue]

@@hidden546 When I am told that, I thank the person. I am greatly relieved that they say that to me. When I think about my past, I tell myself I was stupid for believing nonsense, and you have reassured me by confirming my intelligence was much higher than I thought I was.

[@CatDaddyGuitar]

Someone in another YT channel said (paraphrasing) 'If they don't question why you became a believer, then they don't get to question why you're not '.

[@dasbus9834]

Bam! I wonder what channel that could have been? 🤔

[@CatDaddyGuitar]

@@dasbus9834 haha hey, Das!

[@pineapplepenumbra]

I saw that, too, but can't remember where. It's a good one, though.

[@CatDaddyGuitar]

@@pineapplepenumbra probably Mindshift (Brandon)

[@TonyLambregts]

Catdaddy. That was where II saw it.

[@Rhewin]

"Following emotions is a bad way to get to truth... unless it gets you to my truth. Then you should follow them."

[@26beegee]

What did I learn from 50+ years of trying my hardest to be a believer? Cognitive dissonance is really hard to live with on a long term basis as it causes a lot of emotional wear and tear. Thank goodness I gave up the battle and accepted reality. Whew! I am free!!

[@thefunpolice]

Hooray!

[@sethcave8019]

@26beegee 38 years for me. I was not born a sinner, therefore, no need to be saved., also nullifies Christianity.

[@scvanderhorst]

I agree with most of what you’re saying. The hardest part for me is that basically my whole close family is still Christian and they don’t see the holes in their reasoning, they don’t acknowledge my outcome and seem to think I’m just blinded by Satan, or whatever. That’s the hardest part for me. If you’re abused, people normally try to help you, in my case they try to convert me, while that’s the part that traumatized me in the first place.

[@farrex0]

I never had a bad experience while in the Church, deconstruction was purely intellectual. In fact, I did not want to deconstruct I wanted to stay a Christian because I loved my fellow Christians. But I just couldn't keep lying to myself and everyone. But I keep having Christians assert that I deconstructed because of feelings, wanting to sin, or having bad experiences. So I actually loved fellow Christians and I never had any bad experience.... until I de-converted. Until I was no longer one of them, is when I saw the nasty side of Christianity. Every single interaction with them, was about trying to convert me back, none of them seemed to care about me as a person, they just wanted someone else back in the cult. The only ones that still treat me well, are the ones I never told them I deconverted. Also, the less devout the Christian is, the better they treat me, ironically. Even my parents, it took years for them to finally start treating me like their son. But now that I have seen the ugly side of Christianity and how fake their love is, I don't think I will ever want to go back. If I ever convert back to Christianity, I would do so on my own, I don't want to be with other Christians and their fake love. It is silly that they think people leave Christianity because of bad experiences, when I know plenty of Christians who are against organized religion while still being Christian. But I don't think I would ever convert, because the reasons are not emotional. And the more I learn about the topic, the more I think about it, the less I believe. And to be honest, I am fine with that, I rather be honest.

[@goldenalt3166]

It's interesting how negative Craig seems to think the churches are. Is that to be expected from the people closest to God?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

i was just saying this, that craig makes it sound like deconstruction is invited, i've always been atheist but i imagine it's not welcome at all, it's finding a chink in the armour then trying to disprove it leads to realising the chink is a chasm.

[@OceanusHelios]

Honesty with yourself is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself. You are your own person. You do not owe anybody an apology for walking away from their scripted responses and scripted reactions. I would say that you are less brain washed. The world isn't trying to brainwash you, but that is the pont of religion...to detach from reality. Reality is hard enough and being detached from it will make a person vulnerable. Sure there is safety in numbers, but at what cost? If it is at the cost of lying for the sake of the group, maybe it is better to question the nature of that group.

[@sethcave8019]

@@OceanusHelios Well said.

[@stevewebber707]

A man claiming to be a serious philosopher, and yet completely misrepresenting deconstruction, sounds like... An apologist. Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to resort to name calling, was I? My bad.

[@martinnyberg71]

Excusegist® 😊

[@larryhealy4688]

@@martinnyberg71 Yes, excusegist is name calling. However, apologist is a valid term, and isn't name calling.

[@stevewebber707]

@@larryhealy4688 What people consider name calling, is massively subjective. Heck, there's even some juvenile people that think "gay" is an epithet. You are entitled to your opinion as to what you consider offensive though.

[@oscargr_]

​@@larryhealy4688It's possible you missed the sarcasm.

[@chameleonx9253]

​​@@stevewebber707An "epithet" is a title that's appended after or used in place of someone's name, usually denoting an impressive achievement or trait of that person. So, technically, calling someone "the gay" would be a legitimate epithet if that was the most notable trait that set him/her apart from others in their group. Just saying. 😁

[@maninalift]

Craig: feelz are not a good way to get to truth Also Craig: the witness of the holy spirit is self-authenticating evidence that underpins the properly basic belief in the existence and presence of God.

[@oscargr_]

Oh, please. I get a little nauseous when I hear the whole "self-authenticating" thing from the mouth of a *professional philosopher* Just like when I hear the words "intrinsic defeater defeater " or whatever it was. (Can't look it up, it would make me sick)

[@chameleonx9253]

​@@oscargr_He's a professional philosopher the same way Rudy Giuliani is a professional lawyer.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

Literally. These people are ridiculous.

[@hank_says_things]

Anybody who justifies God's genocides by demonising the victims and then expressing sympathy for the perpetrators is not a person to be taken seriously. They are a person to be left alone and not invited to parties.

[@donaldnumbskull9745]

Funny that while his U.S.P. is philosophy and intellectual rigour, his actual argument was anti-thinking and pro-feeling. Also, Will Lie for Cash is both crude and likely actionable, so we won't call him that, either.

[@infinixuty]

"Will Lie for Cash" is so good😂

[@rudysega]

It's willful ignorance because his salary won't allow him to be honest and think for himself.

[@JohnThomas-jn6ds]

Billful ignorance.

[@JenWith1N]

My first step of deconstructing was when my pastor called my daughter a “bastard”. Because she was “born outside wedlock” He said she was doomed to hell without the possibility of heaven. And he refused to “dedicate” her, telling me this on the day she was to be dedicated with other babies. That’s when my faith was tested. And I actually read the Bible cover to cover and actually looked up the churches statement of faith. It took decades to get me to full atheist.

[@grahvis]

It is when you have a pastor claiming their God thinks this and demands that, but as soon as you ask an awkward question, will tell you God moves in mysterious ways. Then, if they apply their claims to something like marriage which is a social and legal construct and, in reality, has nothing to do with religious belief, it gets very hard to trust what they say is true.

[@OceanusHelios]

Medieval thinking is mostly what "conservatism" is about. It is a fuedal mindset and a fuedal system they want.

[@vaiyt]

The all benevolent god condemns people to eternal torture for the crime of being born to the wrong parents, and then his servants wonder why the pews are empty

[@apokalypthoapokalypsys9573]

​@@OceanusHelios*feudal, FTFY Also, you are wrong. That might be true for a select version of some brand of American religious conservatism, but not all conservatism in general. For example, Winston Churchill would certainly be counted as a conservative today. Did he want to go back to medieval times? Absolutely not.

[@Purpleturtlehurtler]

​@@apokalypthoapokalypsys9573 he was also racist and elitist.

[@LucentDragoon]

We will also not be calling him "but muh feelz Bill", "the uncritical criticalizer", "reconstruction Craig", "rambling Lane" and "that one old guy who won't shut up, nobody cares what he says anymore". I don't want to hear any of those from anyone in the chat.

[@utubepunk]

William Shatner Craig because I can't stand his overly performative, sing song voice & cadence.

[@while_coyote]

The "negative emotional experience" I had in church was being lied to about reality.

[@inkdollz1]

Damnit that intro made me laugh my 3 year old awake from her nap. Funny shit Zod!

[@Veggiewokker]

Please don't call him "The Bill of Wrongs" either.

[@EmissaryOfStuff]

I'm pretty sure at this point Craig is just grifting. No way he would so blatantly contradict himself on the significance of feelings if he were honestly trying to do Philosophy.

[@101stub]

He is always a grifter. I have never seen him argue honestly, and I have watched him a lot.

[@danielkirienko1701]

Nah, he's not grifting. He has the stench of true believer.

[@Petticca]

@danielkirienko1701 I have come to believe that WLC does genuinely believe there is a god, and he feels pretty confident that he's justified, I believe that he's pretty sure this god spoke to him, but, he is intentionally avoiding critically evaluating this idea. And after many decades dedicating himself to the profession of willfully avoiding addressing anything honestly, if it potentially exposes fatal flaws in logical possibility that his desired beliefs could be true, WLC has mastered, truly he has mastered, the practice of engaging _entirely_ in an intellectually dishonest way. His ability to dishonestly reframe every challenging question, in real time, and to litter his responses to one question with logical fallacy mines, intentionally as a defensive primer, he'll detonate as needed while responding to an as yet unasked question, later, is unfknbelievably good. I sincerely mean it when I say that I think WLC's ability to construct and attack multiple strawmen armies, on the fly, is insanely impressive. If you don't get sidetracked by the big obviously BS things he says, and parse the entirety of the particular speech, or QA session, you will find an amazingly intricate web of trick threads that he places down as he goes, and pulls on as the situation requires. There is no doubt in my mind that he is 100% cognizant of his intellectual dishonesty.

[@capnmnemo]

He is also grifting.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

That deconstruction/reconstrution shtick shows he is grifting. Anyone anywhere near the liberal arts part a university since the 60s knows what deconstruction is. Its the arts version of analysis. Its opposite is not reconstruction. He is trying to imply deconstruction = destruction. He knows what the word means, he knows that his audience doesn’t, he doesn’t define it and he tries to imply it means something it doesn’t. All with an escape route if challenged. Thats not philosophy that’s grifting.

[@artemisia4718]

These people either don’t really believe what they say about deconstruction, or they are completely blindsided by their convictions about their religious communities. The correct response to “people are leaving because of church hurt” belief would be advocating for intense introspection by the church, and discuss measures that can be implemented to prevent abuse/hold abusers accountable for their actions. But all I see are religious leaders either denying wrongdoing, or victim blaming, or protecting/excusing abuses.

[@Julian0101]

Apologists have to mis represent what deconstruction is, just like with atheism. They know they cant say anything against it, so the only damage control they have is a good old strawman.

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

"How you feel is irrelevant" - unless you "feel" the Holy Spirit, or unless having poor mental health due to oppression of you as a LGBTQIA+ person is "actually just guilt from your sin and God convicting you". Or like, any time you feel positive feelings during worship, or negative feelings from the guilt and shame you've been taught to feel whenever you do something you're told _might_ be "sinful". Or if some spiritual warm reassuring feeling led you to get saved. Then it's ALL about feelings and those feelings are the _evidence_ of God, their _specific_ God, being real! Feelings are almost always included in a salvation testimony, even one purely based on being "convinced by the facts" often have feelings as the _confirmation_ you weren't over-intellectualising and actually DID feel God!

[@gayasparagus]

This

[@user-fq9ij4we4r]

Are you atheist or a believer ?

[@NotGoodAtNamingThings]

​@@user-fq9ij4we4r - I don't know about OP but I'm an atheist.

[@wrathofainz]

On a recent camping trip I got a to hear a friend of my father's explain why a woman *_pastor_* didn't feel right to him. Paraphrasing, "I agreed with the message, but I couldn't feel the spirit (to confirm that the message had god's backing). It wasn't the right message."

[@user-fq9ij4we4r]

@@wrathofainz Women pastors, that's a touchy issue.

[@NDHFilms]

I remember when Thunderf00t called him “Two-Citation Craig”, because of how rarely his academic work got cited.

[@nagranoth_]

wait, he HAS academic work?

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@nagranoth_, He has a Phd.... so he had to do _some_ work.

[@PROtoss987]

@@nagranoth_ "Dr" William Lane Craig got his "PhD" by writing on the Kalam Cosmological Argument.

[@andreasplosky8516]

I used to think that Craig was the top of the bill as far as apologists go. I took him very seriously. But then I realized he was just rehashing the same nonsense as everybody else, but just said it in a more intellectual sounding way. On top of that, I realized he was a liar. He ignores the damning criticism of philosophers and cosmologists on his interpretation of the Big Bang Theory and his iteration of the Kalam. He does this deliberately. And then there is Craig's horrific, corrupt moral philosophy.

[@OceanusHelios]

I can so see Craig doing apologetics to explain how daughters should be given to a man and "betrothed" again, despite the age of the daughter. Apologetics for the actions of the Nazis too. Whatever apologetics are needed, Bill will be there with the word soup to jusitfy whatever is politically expedient.

[@bertmung]

I grew up in two non authoritarian Christian congregations. I went through a deconstruction process anyway. I think it would have been more emotionally painful if I had people like William Lane Craig in my life. I'm grateful I didn't.

[@costelinha1867]

"A biblically coherent worldview" When you're unable to see how mutually exclusive the words "biblically" and "coherent" are.

[@shldnfr]

"Stay in your lane Craig" is just awesome.

[@chameleonx9253]

I never had to deconstruct, because I was never constructed to begin with. My family never really made an effort to indoctrinate me, so I grew up just knowing about Christianity through pop culture osmosis. I tacitly accepted things like God, heaven, hell, angels, the devil, etc existed, only because the people around me seemed to believe in them and I was too young to see a reason not to trust them. But I also loved fantasy, science fiction, real science, and mythology since I was little, and I read everything I could get my hands on. In college, I specifically took classes about world mythology, religion, and philosophy, because I wanted to write my own fantasy novel and I wanted raw material to work with. When I got around to reading the Bible, it was almost immediately obvious to me that this book is utterly indistinguishable from any other work of fiction from antiquity. It still baffles me how any grown adult can read this book and even entertain the thought that any of it is true.

[@TheFoxholeLife]

He isn't 'low-bar Bill.' He is Bill with bars of adjustable heights, that can be raised or lowered as and when needed.

[@Klepske]

William Lane Craig, who self-identified as Bill before, being silly with his special pleading. It's silly. Silly Billy, I feel justified.

[@Gowalkabout]

The misdirection, and sometimes outright deception, is the biggest problem I have with Christian apologists when they attempt to persuade others their point of view is the "correct" one. They refuse to EVER admit they may be wrong. A person sincerely deconstructing their faith should be willing to admit they may be wrong about their conclusions. But that's how apologists destroy their own credibility by NEVER admitting they could be wrong.

[@Specialeffecks]

Every religion has apologists who claim only they are correct and all others incorrect. Most MUST be wrong...admit it!

[@John.0z]

Don't forget how they try to inject fear into your life. They always like to wave that stick of damnation about.

[@DoorknobHead]

Not just ignorance. Not just willful ignorance. MALICIOUS willful ignorance. Malicious is the word that most draws my interest. Let's go!

[@andrewolson5471]

I wonder what WLC would think about my deconstruction. I was raised in a non-practicing household. I rejected Christianity because as I learned about science and how the world worked, the supernatural claims seemed less and less likely to be true. So I began a 2 decade long process of reevaluating everything I thought was true and asked one thing... "Why do I believe this?" And if the answer couldn't be backed up with facts or data, that idea was gone.

[@travis1240]

He would literally tell you to lower your standards so you can believe in Jebus.

[@OceanusHelios]

Well if you tell him you are agnostic, that means he has an open invitation to invade and prosyletize. If you ask him to produce a miracle he will provide a story but no miracle. If you tell them you prefer to have buttsex with a toy shaped like a crucifix he might get frightened. It's best to just say you find religon to be robotic and weird and mindless.

[@Qlmmb2086]

He'd just say you never had more than a "brain-dead Christian faith" to begin with so he wouldn't have to seriously contend with any of your objectives.

[@tomlorenz4344]

Can we say Cold Cash Christianity?

[@quinn0517]

Ok...but can I still call Frank Turek names?

[@mikehill1114]

Fraudulent Frank? No. That guy doesn't deserve it. Just because he wrote a book about what scientists believe without once ever talking to an actual scientist doesn't mean he deserves to be called names.

[@Zahaqiel]

"Low Bar Bill" became "No Bar Bill" when he argued that morality just is whatever his deity says it is, genocide is fine actually if his deity says it is, and we don't need to think about how anyone can confirm what his deity commands in the modern day. So it's definitely inappropriate to call him Low Bar Bill. Bill doesn't truck with bars.

[@ItRemindMeOfHome]

I can't believe anyone would ever call him "Tripped On The Bar Bill", thats blatant namecalling and we as atheists are better than that. In all seriousness, I don't think he's ever actually put any thought into anything he says, because I've been told, as a trans woman, that my gender identity is just irrelevant feelings too, caused by some traumatic event in my youth. It's the exact same argument for everything from these people, regardless of the discussion at hand. It's the exact same as Ben Sha-P Word going "facts don't care about your feelings" when saying something demonstrably wrong.

[@Kelley_X]

Sorry, but I disagree. As pointed out in this video, some of the points made are deliberately crafted. This is not a product of ignorance, wilful or otherwise, but outright deception. The way he mixes logical points with raw assertions, smuggling in the unproven with the known, is dishonest.

[@ItRemindMeOfHome]

@@Kelley_X I don't mean to say it's willful ignorance. One can intentionally use the tactics of the ignorant. Low Bar Bill has to have had all these things explained to him over and over. I don't doubt for a second that he knows he's lying.

[@orendungan3455]

If it weren't for bad faith, they'd have no faith at all. It is okay for us to provide no further doubt from which they can benefit. Apologist equals grifter, period. It is important to remember they do not speak to us. Their word salad is not meant to convince us. It is meant to keep their flock in line. The whole 'deconstruction, whatever that means' will be repeated by people who are still believers and it will be directed toward friends and family who are legit struggling. Which means we must always chop these lectures up into tiny pieces and put real answers to their claims. Not for the ones who watch this for real, but for those who are being dismissed by their peers using WLC's disingenuous and dangerous posturing. Keep up the Great Work, Zod. Also: is it just me or is it every time WLC tries to smile he looks like he just crapped his pants and he's hoping nobody noticed? Because we all notice that, right?

[@klodius8588]

But God loves Bill and Bill loves God. No emotional factor here?

[@moonpearl4736]

Where is this glorious consistent worldview he is talking about?

[@rectorsquid]

I'm starting to wonder why WLC is "famous" in any way.

[@danielkirienko1701]

Because the pool used to be small, so a small fish looked very large. If he came around now, he wouldn't be considered that special.

[@Diviance]

@@danielkirienko1701 Yeah, if he started up now, he would be one of those countless Christian channels with like 50 followers.

[@santa_christ]

Lots of two-bit chumps made it big as apologists in the early 2000s and it just kind of stuck.

[@ptgraphix]

The truth breaks all Religions, almost instantly!

[@Marniwheeler]

That intro was gold.

[@stevenpinkston6260]

Phew! Man, I was really struggling to not name-call there, but your periodic reminders really helped give me strength and keep me on the straight-and-narrow! Thanks!

[@RikardPeterson]

On the topic of feelings being irrelevant... Well yes and no. Sure, the main question here is if God exists or not but we humans are driven by feelings. I am that stereotypical atheist who was born into fundamentalist Christianity and might well have still been a believer if I hadn't gone through a life crisis where I found that neither church or God could help. I almost ended my life when I got no reply from God despite praying desperately every day. My mental state is so much better and I finally have meaning in my life after I accepted that God doesn't exist. Is this evidence that there is no god? Well, in a way I would say it is, but that's not my point right now. Changing your entire worldview typically isn't easy so a traumatic event might be required as a trigger for some. However, if it'd been the other way around - an atheist finds meaning in the church after going through a serious depression - that's a story you'd hear as testimony from the pulpet and in books all over the place. Does that make sense? It's not easy to condense what I want to say down to a not-too-long KZbin comment.

[@CatDaddyGuitar]

Totally 👊🏼

[@terrencelockett4072]

Yea, using feelings to get you to believe what he believes is ok, but using your feelings to start not believing what he believes is bad.

[@iluvtacos1231]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If emotions are fair game in your conversion to Christianity, they are fair game in your deconstruction of Christianity.

[@travis1240]

So weird hearing the guy who is referred to as "low bar Bill" complaining that emotion isn't a valid reason to leave Christianity when according to him, emotion is the only reason to become Christian. He says the main reason to believe is that you want to and that's what makes unconvincing evidence convincing.

[@jakeloranger1419]

As usual, a very insightful video. I find the more I listen to Craig, the less I think he should be taken at all seriously. What exactly does it take to get a PhD at a Christian university, anyway. Perhaps I'm biased. I saw how much my sister struggled to get her PhD in Statistics. Her husband whom she met UC Berkeley, also earned his PhD in the same field. And these two are some of the smartest and most hard-working people I know. Well, their grown children also fit that class. I never hear any of them make the kind of stupid empty judgements that Craig makes. As to the topic of deconstruction, I had never heard of that term until I started watching videos by former believers. In time, I realized that I have going through my own deconstruction of sorts. In my mid-thirties, I became a member of a Monthly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends. In short, I became a Quaker. I had started to believe in a Higher Power in a recovery program. Quakerism spoke to me, as I would put it back then. In the part of Canada where I live, the Quaker community is very. very small. At my very first Meeting for Worship, there were only three of us, sitting in silence. One can hardly say this was an authoritarian church. There is no hierarchy in Quakerism. There are some structural bodies such Monthly Meetings and Yearly Meetings, but strictly speaking these are not governing bodies. No one is issuing directives. There isn't even a Creed. In Canada, Quakers are usually one of two types, as it were. There are what we called Christo-centric Quakers. They definitely fit into the Christian mold, though no ritual sacraments are adhered to by them. And then, there are the Unitarian Quakers, whose beliefs vary quite widely. In general though, Quakers believe there is that of God in everyone and that all may have the gift of vocal ministry. Anyway, I considered myself among the latter group. While reading the Gospel according to John, I realized that I couldn't really call myself Christian. Having grown up in a Catholic background, attending Catholic schools, I was well aware of many of the miracles attributed to Jesus, though I don't think I ever truly believed everything said about Him. But what really made me realize that I couldn't be a Christian, the same reason I couldn't stay a Catholic, was the notion that only Christians would be saved. As a kid, I was told only Catholics can go to Heaven. That didn't make any sense to me, because at that young age I was aware that there were an awful lot of people on this planet who weren't Catholic. They were all going to hell? What kind of god does that? Many. many years later when read that Jesus allegedly said that inly through him could one get to Heaven, I was hit again by this somewhat surprisingly tribal notion of the supposedly most power being in the all the universe, indeed, the one who was supposed to have made it all. Again, it seems quite illogical to me. Just too small minded for an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity. All this to say that my deconstruction did not come about through some traumatic church experience. It wasn't brought about by some great disappointments, though there have been more than a few losses in my life. Who lives some sixty plus years in this world without some seeming injustices in their life? There was a time when I was angry at God for not healing me of a chronic debilitating illness which, in a sense, robbed me of what should have my most productive years. I'm no longer angry at God because I simply not longer believe any god exists. What really started me on this journey was what had originally led me to Quakerism. The search for what is true, what is really real. My deconstructed began when I started asking myself whenever I heard someone make some pronouncement on the nature of God, or the afterlife, or some other supposedly spiritually true thing. How do they know that? How can anyone know these things? And, how can I know what is true and what is just wishful thinking? Because in my recovery from my addictions, I realized that I had to base my life on a firm foundation of reality if I want to avoid relapse. Even though I've been clean and sober for three and a half decades, there is always a possibility of relapse, however slim it might seem. And given my health issues, that could be rather disastrous. But my greatest fear is that I might cause some irreparable damage to some other person's life. So, I continue to strive to know what is true. Thank you for helping me on my journey.

[@jimscanoe]

"When they load all the misdirection into the question..."-great observation.

[@mikehill1114]

I have had many a conversation with people about why I left. At some point I started changing my story. And what I found is, no matter WHAT answer I gave, that was the reason for my departure. * My dad was an evangelist and I was in church all the time? I was forced into too much church * In church Sunday school, Sunday church, Wednesday? There was too much structure * In church Sunday & Wednesday? I was a social Christian * In church Sunday's only? I wasn't truly a Christian, I was just a casual Christian * Biblically strict parents? I was rebelling against them * Biblically moderate parents? I wasn't given a clear direction * Biblically relaxed parents? I was never made to truly believe in it * Studied the bible to become a pastor like my father? I was leaning on my own understanding * Studied to defend my faith, like Peter? I was being to arrogant and not following god * Had a crisis of faith? I was never a Christian and was just looking for flaws * Studied the bible as part of church, reviewing sermons? I didn't trust the leadership god had given me * Followed along with the bible in church? I never really read and understood it for myself * Basically never read the bible? How could I expect to get to know god if I didn't read his word There is no answer you can give that will satisfy them. Even if you let them tell you their version first, and then just mimic theirs precisely, then it will become a bad pastor or a bad teacher or a false church And then they go into the doctrine of why you left

[@samgott8689]

GREAT intro lol. I can’t tell if you’re being serious or if this was like my Calculus professor saying, “there’s this website that has our textbook on it for free, which I’m definitely advising you to NOT go to. I’m putting the link below so that can recognize it and avoid it if you see it”. That guy ruled.

[@frankpulmanns6685]

Low Bar Bill isn't name-calling. It's not crass, crude or insulting.

[@ayuphreek]

Not crass or crude but if he had a smigde of integrity it would be insulting🤷

[@frankpulmanns6685]

​@@ayuphreek But he doesn't.

[@Nickelini]

Craig is blatently dishonest

[@Leith_Crowther]

It’s a ridiculous notion to expect intellectual honesty and knowledgeability from people whose salary depends on their own dishonesty and ignorance.

[@grahvis]

Like biblical historians who work for an organisation which demands a statement of belief. No way can their conclusions not be strongly biased.

[@Cyraneth]

Good thing we got the name-calling settled early on. Would be a shame if Craig was ridiculed like that for his silly views, abundant cognitive dissonance, special pleading, compartmentalization, and ad hoc after-rationalizations.

[@amateuroverlord8007]

I really wish Zod could have given a more exhaustive list of all the names we aren’t going to call Craig.

[@grapeshot]

Religious Weirdo Bill Vol 1.

[@stevenbatke2475]

Pill Bill?

[@chadnorris8257]

I used to watch this channel more, when PoZ was static faced. It's nice to see your real one, because you're a handsome bloke. Although I totally understand the desire to not make your identity public online.

[@jtmopar2498]

As a single atheist in my 40's with mild social anxiety, who still hopes to find a wife and have a family, self-deceiving myself back into Christianity would go along way to make me FEEL better. But I just can't lie to myself anymore, so here I am...

[@OceanusHelios]

I'm sure you will find romance with a woman that is disillusioned with religion. There are so many out there. Keep trusting what you think and don't be afraid to not second guess yourself. You seem perfectly coherent and with your feet on the ground to me, and women find that attractive.

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

Interviewed by his own son... ok.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Not to knock it but... yeah. Robert Sapolsky has this series where he's being interviewed by his daughter and I find it equally off-putting. Just to give an example outside of a figure I actively dislike.

[@hegyak]

It's not like he had a bunch of Guys around him as he "Blew" away a virus. That, was REALLY weird.

[@quinn0517]

Hey my kid interviewed me and it wasn't weird at all. Of course, it was for a 5th grade social studies project so...

[@theunknownatheist3815]

@@rainbowkrampusugh. Sap. Another dishonest creep.

[@LeoVital]

It’s like that Cliffe Knechtle guy who is an apologist with a son who is also a wannabe apologist. It’s funny watching them both totally “own” college kids with their marvelously constructed arguments.

[@billmcdonald4335]

It's okay to state that William Lane Craig trades in Billshit though, right? I mean, 24-karat, 151-proof Billshit. The Pure. That's okay. Right?

[@riseofdarkleela]

So fresh you can smell it!

[@doctorShecoo]

That cold open was savage.

[@Monedgar123]

Dudes been called out for this over and over again at debates and other venues. He knows.

[@anthonypasslow1933]

Great work Zod, please keep up the good work. This Billy the kids character is truly infuriating to the mildest of the educated, and yet he has the bonafides regarding qualifications. His condescending dismissive and ignorance is just unbearable, thank you for speaking out against this clown show

[@howaboutataste]

The funny thing about "deconstruction" is that the people who have gone through it value speaking the truth, and so share freely about it. Also, to support others who are deconverting.

[@terrencelockett4072]

That has to be one of the most disingenuous and dishonest things apologists do. To claim they don't care about feelings while most of the arguments for their beliefs are based on feelings.

[@morganwilliams5591]

I was raised Christian, and stayed a Christian for several years in my teens solely due to the fear of hell, aka feelings. It was only when I bypassed those feelings and gave myself permission to look at facts, that I realized I had no good reason to keep believing. Feelings kept me IN Christianity, they didn't lead me out

[@sethcave8019]

A few days ago I told myself that, "I was not born a sinner". Therefore, no need for salvation, no need for christianity.

[@aaronchandler2380]

I went to church most of my life never thought much about it, my problems with religion started when I actually started thinking about what it is… most people do not want to really think about it.

[@DJ_Sycottic]

I'm glad I never had to deconstruct, getting off opiates was hard but when you've grown up with all your life revolving around a religion it must be a nightmare. As a child my parents (both atheists) sent me to Sunday school every week and just before my 7th birthday when they came to pick me up my mother was told that I was not welcome anymore because I was disrupting the other kids. What happened was they'd been talking about other religions and saying that they were all wrong and only Christianity was real and as a 6 year old I said that saying that didn't make any sense, at that age I could see how nuts religion was and the fact that there was so many religions it couldn't be true. My parents were so proud and still tell people about it to this day..

[@AnHebrewChild]

Man that is AWESOME. you sound like super smart six year old. Great analysis!

[@TheZeroNeonix]

Oh yeah. I TOTALLY felt relieved when I realized the God I considered my best friend for several years was a lie, and had to distance myself from the church my entire social circle outside of family was built around. [/sarc]

[@NoStringsAttachedPrd]

"asking yourself questions about why you believe things is just a trendy tiktok thing to do and all the broken people who have been hurt by their churches (bless their hearts) are just brain-dead following influencers. No, instead of asking yourself if you believe for good reasons, don't do that, just be a christian like I say because i say it's glorious. also your feelings don't matter but my feelings come from the holy spirit and so mine do." thanks craig. stellar performance as always. The truth has nothing to fear from investigation, so why is craig so afraid of people investigating? just fobbing off attempts to investigate as just being feelings-driven tiktok trends, don't do that, just build your faith up (in his religion) instead without thinking about it. i mean yeah you _could_ investigate whether it's true, but that sounds like you've got hurt feelings, so it _is_ true - think of the glory! i don't know how he does it but i am consistently surprised by the low level of thought and consideration, the lack of self-reflection, and the double-standards dripping with condescension from this man.

[@NeedSomeNuance]

“Low Bar Bill” “Willfully ignorant Will” it all works

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

Leaving your cult is so "in vogue" right now. Must be the Tick Tock influencers. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@dasbus9834]

Pretty poor show from a supposed PhD philosopher. But fully in line with expectations.

[@jamierichardson7683]

Low bar expectations?

[@davidbudge8359]

I feel sorry for the never chosen item on Craig's List.

[@CatDaddyGuitar]

😂

[@pavld335]

William is a gas lighter.

[@zachreads]

Got it, no calling him Swilliam Claim Craig Shilliam Lame Craig or Billion Claim Craig

[@MrFringehead]

Someone important once described the gospel message as a "sword" that "turns brother against brother and a son against his father." As a former Christian, I unfortunately have to agree with that characterization. In the USA now, political Christianity is definitely contributing to social division in a frightening way. As a young Christian who was also becoming literate in scientific concepts, I found that by accepting physical reality as best as we can understand it, I had placed an irreconcilable barrier between me and my Creationist family. I found that "being in the world but not of it" was an untenable position. Because the razor-sharp edge of fundamentalist beliefs had sliced off part of what I understood to be the truth, I could no longer regard Christianity as wholly true. I might have deconstructed eventually even without being exposed to Creationism, but this first split prompted me to leave entirely.

[@john211murphy]

All Excuse-agists like Low-Bar Bill have to attack a "Straw-Man" version of EVERYTHING. I seems that the Excuse-agists have scratched out the 9th Commandment because is "Inconvenient"

[@saltyman5603]

Honestly, im disappointed that people are calling him "trusted a fart bill". Its childish and we can do better.

[@martinnyberg71]

😂

[@MrPilton]

Willfully Lame Conman

[@OceanusHelios]

Oh? I am perfectly fine with giving people a taste of their own medicine. It is better to be humbled by a taste of one's own medicine than to humble yourself just for the sake of some unseen over-sold imaginary sky blob. When people get a taste of their own medicine then they might actually know the damage they have done. They lose their hubris and lose their hypocrisy and tread a bit more carefully.

[@NoodleKeeper]

Yeah, it's a pretty weak insult.

[@EllasPOSEiDON]

Never trust a fart.

[@BrianMelancon]

Let's start a thread of other things we definitely should not call WLC. I'll start with: Don't call him "Billy Be Lying"

[@clarkkent2379]

Low Bar Bill says "Don't let your feelings guide you -- unless they guide you to where I tell you to go, then you should let them guide you."

[@mainecoonmami]

Feeling better is a byproduct. Not the reason. Chef’s kiss of a critique, Zod! 😘

[@lePirateMan]

William Lame Craig

[@skywise001]

Ive always like the phrases; Willie Billy, Liar Lane, Corupt Craig, A most notable coward- an infinite and endless liar an hourly promise breaker and the owner of no one good quality.

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

"Regressives" - I like that name.

[@heiyuall]

It needs to be easier to revoke a PhD when it’s being used in betrayal of the subject of the PhD. “My PhD in philosophy lets me tell you to have reactive blind faith and a mindless lack of self-awareness.” Tear up the degree.

[@grahvis]

I am firmly convinced that for some, the acquisition of a PhD, along with its title of Doctor, is undertaken merely to give themselves the appearance of authority.

[@motalasuger]

“I think how you feel is irrelevant” - this is very true, and also my motto regarding faith in deities since it’s all about feelings. Not sure how what you’re feeling being irrelevant regarding analyzing your feelings about a deity is supposed to work out though.

[@misslayer999]

Funny how I've never used tik tok, haven't used Facebook, IG or any other social media platform in 7 years, yet somehow I managed to deconstruct all on my own, no influencers necessary. Didn't even start watching YT content until last year, well after my deconstruction. I didn't know spaces like this existed after I lost my faith. I wish I did, bc maybe I wouldn't have felt so utterly alone.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Said it before, but my leaving christianity was about as dramatic as watching paint dry. The belief system makes zero rational sense and that's all there is to it. Christians like Craig attributing deconstruction to some kind of trauma are just coping. Relying on a just-so story to avoid having to acknowledge the shallowness (or complete lack) of their own examinations.

[@VitreousVirtuosa]

My thoughts on Craig I think are systemic of most of these apologists now. They've showed their hand in that they care about showing an illusion of intellectualism while in actuality they dont want ANY critical analysis of their positions, and would rather deflect any criticism onto the person who's deconstructing or criticizing. It's similar to how whenever you bring up one of the many rampant issues with say, how the Church gets involved with children, or the Church pushing their religion into school, or the blatant discrimination towards the LBGTQ+, they will often deflect to "well they arent real christians", or that they're just angry sinners at God and need to come around, so on and so forth. It's probably stemming from I think that religious leaders have long since realized that the more you think critically and examine your beliefs, the more religion falls over like a house of cards, and that they're losing a lot of social power to go on unquestionably, making them resort to trying to discredit any rational analysis of their positions. Their followers then eat this up and go further into the rabbithole, unable to actually analyze the information the other side puts out in a honest way, and attacks and berates them. I dont want to go as far to say this is all Christians, but it feels like something core to continued belief in Christianity to me.

[@corwin32]

That WLC, a theologian and philosopher, could be mystified by deconstruction beggars belief. We are not that dumb, Bill

[@jacknerdlord3244]

I missed some development somewhere but PoZ brought it.

[@joshsimpson1283]

I very much appreciate your mature and reasoned approach to name calling. I'm glad you didn't use any of those names that you listed. Very mature indeed 🤣

[@HarryNicNicholas]

craig and others treat deconstruction as a thing people invite, so they can sin presumably, but the whole fuss about deconstruction is that it's NOT invited, i imagine most religists who lose their faith find it really upsetting, not a thing you welcome, but a thing that results in confusion. as always christians are not being generous and bill is just atheist bashing as always - he never gives me a reason to sign up to christianity , he just says horrible things about people he "feels" like hating on.

[@franciswalsh8416]

Great program! I am really glad to have found your lectures. So sensible