The Worst Decisions Made IN Dynasty Warriors..

[@EmperorDionx]

Historically, losing the battle of chi bi was the most pivotal moment in the 3 kingdoms. Cao Cao had the biggest army. All of his enemies were still weak. The only other lord that could challenge Cao Cao was on the fringes of China, too far away to really matter. The entire 3 kingdoms period would have ended HERE if not for this defeat. It would have been over before it really even began. But because Cao Cao sailed down the river and lost, Wu was able to consolidate its power, and Liu Be was able to get properly established and form Shu

[@planescaped]

This, definitely. From a more narrative side of things though, I can see Wu's betrayal at Fan Castle being the worst, but historically, it has to be Chi Bi.

[@PhanTuan2212]

Zero idea why Wu stabbing Guan Yu was even a mistake. Shu kept on betraying them, and Guan Yu himself mocked Sun Quan, they all deserve to go to hell. The battle of Chi Bi was Zhou Yu orchestrating it alone (not Mr. I can get 100000 arrows and call the wind however I like), Wu should have killed Liu Bei and co the moment they set foot in their territory, that to me was the worst mistake of the period. Without Liu Bei, Wu would win just fine, and can expand to the west without trouble, as Wei had to lick their wounds for a while there. There would have been North vs South, and even if Wu can't beat Wei, they would certainly put on a good attempt, not stopped dead every single time at He Fei lol. Alliances simply don't work when one side does nothing but trying to exploit it for their own gains.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

oh 1000% the defeat led to all the beautiful things we have with the series today & for that im thankful he got his ass beat lol

[@sonogamirinne7172]

​@@PhanTuan2212 shu still help chibi for know about when the Wind start , without it no flame for wu

[@PhanTuan2212]

@@sonogamirinne7172 Zhou Yu calculated EVERYTHING, including when the wind would change direction as he obtained the info from a local fisherman, by himself (Sun Quan was the one behind the idea of "borrowing" 100000 arrows). Shu does absolutely nothing but taking the glory of chasing down Wei, and after that came the famous double betrayal (to Wu AND Liu Zhang at the same time, Liu Zhang wasn't the worthless ruler the novel made him up to be).

[@lion58blue]

Making DW9(honorable mention)

[@Ultimatesadventures]

I still cant believe how crappy it is

[@lion58blue]

@@Ultimatesadventures that's why I didn't even bother buying it

[@emperorjoker9240]

Tbf you can’t fault them for trying something(the premise, everything else is horrible).

[@PhanTuan2212]

Worse still is character cutting (which is about to happen again). If there would be too many characters, just go the reboot route like SW5, they can even redesign the controversial characters.

[@emperorjoker9240]

@ technically that’s what they’re doing. Also you have to remember that origins isn’t a main line entry.

[@HarkenEliwood]

According to the novel, Wikipedia and DW9, before Fan Castle happened, Sun Shang Xiang was back in Wu, Guan Yu stole some food from Wu and rejected the proposition of marrying Guan Yinping to Sun Quan's son, going as far as insulting them, so the Wu-Shu alliance was not holding that well.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

yeah i keep hering the insult thing, which is just yeesh, but in the games Yu never does that so killing him in game, Wu looks more villanized than ever

[@drakusmero104]

Worst decision in DW history was taking away Gan Ning's River Sword. Yeah im still salty about that and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Though i did like his design and moves in Wo Long with the beast claws

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yeah, FOR DW that was rough, but in the games, Gan Ning didnt choose not to have it, imagine they had a cutscene where he puts down his river sword and chooses the flail lol that would be mayhem

[@RVMan985]

Worst decision in Dynasty Warriors, I can name a few: 1. Cao Shuang attacking Xingshi after Sima Yi warned him it was a bad idea 2. Gongsun Yuan's rebellion 3. Sun Quan underestimating He Fei 4. Fushiren and Mi Fang's betrayal 5. Ma Su in charge of Mt. Jieting 6. Liu Shan trusting Huang Hao 7. Zhuge Dan and Sima Zhao's failure at Dingtao 8. Zhang Bao rushing wrecklessly in Chengcang 9. The Han trusting Dong Zhuo 10. Allowing Cao Cao to retrieve the emperor from Li Jue.

[@Yata544]

I'd say Liu Shan overtrusting Huang Hao is the top 3 worst decision

[@TheNightowlGaming]

those are all solid ones for sure !

[@mastertadakatsu]

Surprised Jiang Wei's consistent Northern campaigns were not on the list

[@historian252]

​@mastertadakatsu His Northern Campaigns actually ha more successes than failures. It's just that his defeat in 256 and 262 really sapped Han of Shu's strength.

[@banditman1986]

Yes the ma su thing was 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@NoelJohnCarlo]

I think the Worst Decisions are Turning Classic Weapons into DLC Weapons, Voice Acting now being suck and DW9 being Open World.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Definitely the worst FOR the game, but in the game imagine if the characters had a cutscene retiring their fave weapons, chaos. lol

[@zachurich5046]

The open world had so much potential, it was just executed poorly.

[@AlifyaNursukmaForicha]

DW9 is an open world but DW9 Empires aren't. That's the worst decision imo

[@BTD626]

Yea the voice acting suffered as the series progressed. Some of those critical events seem meh 😕 at least in English

[@PNarbz123]

Keep in mind the voice acting was horrible because of the voice actor strikes, the English VAs for DW Origins at least look way better.

[@ShadowOfCicero]

Five more that, as far as I know, were ROTK exclusive: 5. Yuan Shao not following primogeniture, causing a succession crisis. Final nail in the coffin for the Yuans. 4. Sun Ce going after Gan Ji. In the book, Sun Ce started that fight. 3. Sun Jian tempting fate by calling a curse on himself if he had the Imperial Seal. Not getting the Mandate that way. 2. Cao Cao panicking at his uncle's place. The cold-blooded murder he followed up with to cover it cost him the services of Chen Gong. 1. Liu Bei not backstabbing Liu Biao. He would have owned Jing Province free and clear. No need to get into any negotiations about "borrowing it" from Wu.

[@planescaped]

Cao Cao freaking out and killing his uncle over a misunderstanding, to me, always seemed so out of character for him. I always assumed it an invention of the books to try and make him look bad, and by extension, make Liu Bei look better.

[@historian252]

But Liu Bei never borrowed Jing with Wu. He obtained all of southern Jing except for the northern parts of Nan Commandery on his own. He even traded part of Jiangxia and Changsha Commanderies for northern Nan Commandery. So there was no "borrowing."

[@shanhuyu]

If Liu Bei had backstabbed Liu Biao and usurped Jing Province, wouldn't he lose the banner of righteousness, as Liu Biao was a member of the Han clan?

[@TheNightowlGaming]

that number 1 choice is so auspicious for Liu Bei & the fact he betrayed to get Yi Province instead.. he should've just done that lol

[@corderothomas1189]

Ma Su at Jieting.... Basically killed Shu's chance to win the war of the Three Kingdoms

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Lol seems arrogance runs rampant in Shu eh lol

[@corderothomas1189]

@@TheNightowlGaming Zhuge Liang, while undoubtedly the greatest intellectual and strategic mind at that time, had relatively poor people skills and never took chances with ones he should have and failed in this one time trusting someone because they reminded him of himself SMH I groan to think how close Liu Bei was to fulfilling his destiny but Shu lacked the order, discipline and camaraderie that Wei and Wu had. Would have been lovely for China I believe

[@planescaped]

Cao Cao falling for Zhang Xiu and Jia Xu's assassination plot at Wan Castle really did always seem super out of character for him. It was the most obvious anime betrayal ever, yet Cao Cao walked right into it. I suppose it did show how complacent he was becoming, as he had scored victory after victory. I think by pardoning Zhang Xiu and Jia Xu afterwards, even Cao Cao realized how foolish he had been and that it was his own damn fault , lol

[@erikschaeffer8419]

The issue I got for this one is historically cao cao is a man hoe who liked married women. So in actual history he wanted to sleep with zhang xius aunt who was renowned for her beauty and that is what really got him trapped. The games don't ever cover his man hoeing so it seems super weird then historically it's he wanted that coochie so bad he got dian wei and cao ang his first son killed. Yet we never talk or see cao ang.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Oh 100% but it being a for sure trap we could be saying it out of hindsight but also with so many wins recently, Cao's arrogance he couldve felt untouchable lol

[@historian252]

Incorrect. Historically Zhang Xiu was willing to surrender to Cao Cao the first time but Cao Cao planned to force Zhang Xiu's aunt to be a concubine and planned to kill Zhang Xiu when he disagreed with Cao Cao. The games are just trying really hard to point out that Cao Cao was the bad guy.

[@planescaped]

@@historian252 What did I say that was incorrect? All of that happened. I just didn't mention that aspect of it, which is also arguable in how much of a factor it actually was. lol Gotta love these "You're wrong! But also yes." types...

[@historian252]

@@planescaped You say, it was out of character when it was extremely in character for Cao Cao to do that. He massarced people throughout Xu Province twice, buried soldiers alive, killed pregnant women and slaughtered entire clans. What makes Wan Castle "out of character"?

[@misakikoko4500]

The worst decision in the Three Kingdoms era was Zhao Yun saving baby Liu Shan.

[@ShinAk1raSama]

To be fair, after Zhao Yun saved baby Liu Shan, Liu Bei slammed the baby on the ground and said that he cared more about Zhao Yun than his wives and son. I'm no expert, but I think slamming an infant into the ground might have led to irreparable brain damage.

[@PuchimonExtreme]

That part (baby yeeting) is actually fictional but by "how much" i don't know. Remember that "culture" is an infectious thing that exists even in fiction. If some guy writes "Liu Bei is a good guy. He also slammed his baby on the ground" and this actually "gains popularity". Then you can conclude that their "cultural values" actually considers this a GOOD THING. We also know for a fact that if Liu Bei only had one talent it would be being great at PR. He could have easily done this or something similar and then cover it up. Or he could just plain suck at parenting and also cover it up. Just like how Guan Yu is praised as honorable for letting Cao Cao go and he gets zero flak from anyone besides Zhuge Liang. The rest of us would call his a fkin moron and/or dishonorable for also making the entire war last decades longer than it should on top of wasting all the lives of the soldiers to get him in that position to begin with. There is also another modern revisionist take of Liu Shan. Liu Shan is actually smarter than anyone gave him credit for. He simply surrendered because it would end the war faster causing less people to suffer (people of that era tend to go for mass exterminations of entire defeated clans.)

[@TheNightowlGaming]

And not puttin ghim in Jing instead of Guan Yu imagine that (someone else commented this & i think that would've saved so much headache)

[@mitchellalexander9162]

Maybe we should really 'Distinguish' between Historical Mistakes in the Three Kingdoms Story and the Liberties and Changes Dynasty Warriors makes to it's Character Stories and Gameplay ideas and decisions. Might be a very important line to delineate to separate 'Documented Decisions that are how the Tale plays out ordinarily' and 'Things that come out of Left Field in the Actual Game Series maybe at odds with the Novel or 'just didn't land'

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Haha thats actually not a bad idea, hopefully the title saying IN DW will lead people to believe that I'm only talking about in DW lil

[@fireblast8972]

Some of my picks (one for each kingdom) Wei: Cao Cao getting tunnel vision on Guan Yu during the campaign against Liu Bei. We already know for fact that Guan Yu alone would go on to carry Wei through the battle of Guan Du, and only left when he found Liu Bei serving the enemy army, but Liu and Zhang were no slouches, either. Imagine the power boost Cao Cao's army would have gotten if, instead of focusing purely on Guan Yu, he found a way to capture and recruit all three brothers, treating them better than he treated the emperor himself to where they would want to serve him. Instead, he goes all in on Guan Yu, gets one good win in with him, then loses him. Wu: Underestimating the He Fei defenders. By this point of the story, it is made very clear that Cao Cao is no fool, and his court is filled with some of the brightest minds of the era, and yet not a single red flag or alarm bell went off to Sun Quan when he sees Cao leave only a couple thousand troops and Zhang Liao to man the border against the entire Wu kingdom and thought he could get by with big numbers. Shu: Giving Jiang Wei the reigns to do, like, 20 more northern campaigns. He tried and failed to make any headway into Wei so many times, and each time, they lost more men, more supplies, and more officers. Meanwhile, the people back in Yi were starving more and more since the already limited crop yield that their mountainous home gave them was mostly going to these invasions that weren't working. Somebody should have had the guts to tell Jiang Wei "No, we need to stop and recover our losses for a few years." Jin: Falling for Zhong Hui's trick about Deng Ai being a co-conspirator. After the Sima clan and Wen Yang, Deng Ai was pretty much carrying Wei for the majority of the Shu battles and the final campaign, so for them to so quickly believe the trick that he was going to betray them ended up costing them one of their greater generals.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Can wholeheartedly agree with all these points some serious blows to them all, Deng Ai one is so sad

[@kevino2435]

Just have this eerie feeling yi ling might pop up here

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Mebbe 😎

[@novakaizr]

I would say Wu attacking Jing was the biggest gamble that didn't pay off. Wu had 1 front to Wei, through Hefei. The entire border was within reinforcement range for the defenders there. Wu's alternatives were to keep beating their heads against the fortified defenses in Hefei, or try to open another front. They could have asked Shu if they were allowed to march an army through Jing to attack Wei, but they didn't trust them. That is partially because of Shu taking Jing, but also because of Yi. Sun Quan offered Liu Bei a plan for a joint invasion of Yi, but Liu Bei refused (I believe citing his family bond with Liu Zhang), so Sun Quan basically went "ok then, if you say so". Then Liu Bei turned around and invaded on his own, taking the entire province for himself (and also using the pretext of providing aid to invade). I imagine Wu was worried that if they tried to march an army through Shu territory, then Shu could easily decide to just stab them in the back and wipe out the army, leaving the south open to invasion

[@TheNightowlGaming]

definitely alot of risk involved and I could understand the hesitation, it seems that if diplomacy was better between the 2, history wouldve been a lot different

[@novakaizr]

@TheNightowlGaming I don't think it could have been different. Sun Quan and Liu Bei were both warlords. They both wanted to rule and didn't trust each other. The betrayal would have happened sooner or later. Personally I believe Wu was doomed the moment Shu conquered Yi province. If they do what they did in history they weaken themselves and Shu, giving the already superior Wei an advantage. If they don't betray Shu and try to keep attacking Hefei, they either slowly lose to Wei, or distract Wei enough for Shu to make progress and defeat them, at which point Shu invades and conquers Wu. Wu was very unlikely to ever make real progress in Hefei. For an inferior army to beat a superior one they need the element of surprise. That doesn't work when the enemy know where you are going to be attacking from. Especially when you have to attack across a river, where they will see you organizing boats to get your army across long before that army is formed up and ready to fight.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

@@novakaizr Hmm yeah that makes sense, well maybe instead of wokring together they could agree not to deal with eachh otehr until Wei falls, but i guess they were under that pretense originally and the betrayal stil happened, just a doomed situation lol

[@novakaizr]

@@TheNightowlGaming Yeah. "Uniting against the greater threat" sounds good in theory but rarely works in practice, especially when there is no trust. It is the same reason the coalition against Dong Zhuo collapsed. That is also a major reason Oda Nobunaga managed to become Shogun. Unlike most other rulers he had an ally (Tokugawa Ieyasu) who he could reliably count on to watch his back, allowing him to make a push for the capital without being immediately attacked from behind

[@historian252]

Sun Quan planned to use Liu Bei as the vanguard so if he failed Sun Quan could take control of Yi Province.

[@nigoki0291]

To be fair with Wu, put yourself in their shoe: 1.Your supposedly ally "borrow" Jing by steal it right under your nose when you fight against Wei for their and your sake and do the heavy lifting no less 2.they proceded to ask you to attack He fei which didn't turn out well for you and have the audacity to refuse to send reinforcement when asked 3.while this one could be argue only Guan Yu but after Shu already have Han Zhong, he refused to Honor Shu's promised of returning it and historically act arrogant about it going as far as insult Sun Quan's daughter when he tried to smooth things over by offering a marriage TLDR agree bad move on Wu but Damn Shu had it coming

[@TheNightowlGaming]

For sure, thats why I said im sure some of you agree and I understand why they did it, it just seemed like not the smartest move (in the game, which means in the game the daughter insult didnt happen) and there were others ways to deal with it, which they explore in dw8

[@ShadowOfCicero]

Reading ROTK, Shu and Wu deserved each other.

[@historian252]

1. Liu Bei never borrowed Jing Province. 2. Liu Bei launched an attack on Zhang He to get him out of Ba Commandery during this time. 3. Given Sun Quan had launched an attack on Liu Bei before they settled the dispute in Jing, Sum Quan has no room to talk.

[@AlifyaNursukmaForicha]

The decisions made that led to the death of the three brothers is the worst decisions shu could make. Also, this is only my opinion, but betraying shu is probably one of the best decision Wu could make. Because from what i see, Wu is tired of attacking Wei, they probably would rather to focus on themselves. And if they're still allies with Shu they will keep attacking Wei and exhausted their resources. And also, it was stated in the novel that Sun family hated Liu Bei for takng SSX as his bride. SSX leaving Liu Bei and Wu killing Liu Bei at Yiling is maybe like a gift from God

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Ah i dont remember reading that there was hate from wu cause of SSX, but yeah i agree to an extent!

[@emperorjoker9240]

I blame Guan Yu as well as Wu for Fan Castle(He Fei too). Had Guan not been so stubborn and helped them with He Fei, he could’ve bought himself some more time dealing with Cao Ren. Matter of fact, they might have been grateful and helped him

[@TheNightowlGaming]

solid good point, imagine reinforcements from Guan Yu at hefei, Liao vs Yu wouldv'e been legendary

[@emperorjoker9240]

@ they actually did it in one of the hypothetical route in DW9 lol(Fa Zheng story).

[@historian252]

Nah Guan Yu had to keep the northern border of Jin protected and let's not forget Sun Quan's assault on Jing. Guan Yu was wary of Sun Quan.

[@emperorjoker9240]

@ I don’t mean he has to send everything he has but at the very least he could’ve sent some aid as a sign of good faith, Also being wary is what cost him.

[@historian252]

@@emperorjoker9240 Considering Sun Quan showed no good faith given his attack on Jing I would day Guan Yu is justified.

[@juniorrng7950]

To follow up with Rank 1, in many fictional media depiction of Wu's betrayal is mainly hinged on the fact of Zhou Yu's jealousy for Zhuge Liang's being smarter than him. Throughout the battle of red Cliff, he tried to kill or attempt to build allegations against him, however Zhuge Liang was able to out smart him (such as the famous scene with "Borrowing arrows from Wei"). Furthermore, Wu's decision on not killing CaoCao (as Zhuge Liang believed that Wu should had the ability to do so during the battle of Red Cliff), was also influenced by Zhou Yu and more power hungry politicians where they want Shu to bare the responsibility of CaoCao's death, and have Wei's remnants fight Shu, alongside with Wu (which goes against Sun Jian's wishes). To FURTHER follow with how dumb Rank 5 ( Yuan Shu Become Emperor) is, prior to his declaration of becoming emperor, he lets go Sun Ce, who gave him the Emperor Seal, along side with Huang Gai. One of the founding reasoning why Yuan Shu was able to amass such power was because of Sun Ce, who was able to conqueror the south land under 5 years and essentially gave Yuan Shu the Wu force. Yuan Shu basically shot him self in his foot, declared himself to be an emperor, and was surprised why he was "rebelled" and defeated.

[@planescaped]

Yuan Shu: Haha! I am weaker then I have ever been! And am in a precarious position! My brother is currently dealing with Gongsun Zan and Cao Cao and would be unable to help me... now is the time to declare war on everyone!

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Lol yeah Yuan Shu was out of his mind, and thats interesting for the first two points, its crazy ohow they show him having so much jealousy but in reality had almost nothing to do with each other, but it all makes sense

[@Yata544]

My pick for this topic HM : Related to a hypothetical route, Cao Cao giving Chen Gong a "second" chance (I think KT is a little bit drunk when they design this story) 😅 10. Zhuge Dan and Zhong Hui's rebellion 9. Cao Cao didn't predict Zhang Xiu's rebellion 8. Ma Su overestimated Jieting 7. Cao Shuang being a POS to Sima clan and turn into hedonism like Dong Zhuo did 6. Lu Bu not listening to Chen Gong 5. Sun Quan overestimated He Fei (that led to their betrayal at Fan Castle) 4. Vengeance battle at Yi Ling 3. Liu Shan trusting both Huang Hao and Jiang Wei 2. Zhuge Liang not considering reconciliation between Liu clan and investigating the traitor between the clan (I'd say Xu Shu's hypothetical story in DW9's premise is a good one should it happened) 1. Betraying Shu at Fan Castle (TBF, KT did good job on making Lu Su's hypothetical story on how Fan Castle conflict should have end and their alliance should have been)

[@ShadowOfCicero]

Funny thing is, in ROTK, the one person that joined Cao Cao in his escape from Luoyang was... Chen Gong. It was only after Cao Cao did one of his most cold-blooded actions that the two fell out.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

solid list, Ma Su and SHuang i shouldve put as HMs lol

[@michel4rthur]

Wu betraying Shu was actually smart of them. Remember Guan Yu brought this on himself The worst decisions: 1. Zhuge Liang entrusting Ma Su too much 2. Liu Bei giving his dream of benevolence to Jiang Wei and Zhuge Liang instead of his own son

[@historian252]

It wasn't smart especially as Sun Quan never made any progress against Wei. So it was a very dumb move.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

He did and those 2 definitely have some merit to them, Liu Shan was doomed form the star

[@mishuncompree1362]

One I can think of is Sima Yi getting Zhang He idiotically killed. He orders Zhang He to pursue Zhuge's retreating forces at Mount Qi. Zhang He says no, that is dumb, i would die. Sima forces Zhang to follow and, like clockwork, gets killed.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Oh yeah that was a goofy one for sure

[@erikschaeffer8419]

To add to the lu bu one he actually killed 2 step dads. Ding yuan was the first and the noble who faught dong zhuo and he did win cause of lubu but then dong brided lubu and he killed dingyuan to then serve dong zhuo who he later killed too.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yup!

[@ShadowOfCicero]

For all his other mistakes, you know who the one person who never trusted Lu Bu was? Zhang Fei.

[@nastyjag9767]

Another honorable mention should be the resilient meng huo lol 😂

[@TheNightowlGaming]

LOL

[@shigesohma]

I'd say that Wu betraying Shu was the smartest decision at the time because of two factors. First, they made the decision banking on Shu being more focused or retaliating against Wei (the more strategically sound choice) which would have allowed Wu to recoup their losses against Wei and bide their time to betray them as well. Second, they were able to obtain key strategic points in Jing because they became vassals of Wei, which is what caused the initial friction in the Wu/Shu alliance (Wu wanted Jing Province after Shu sniped it out from under them). It probably would have worked out perfectly, but of course you know... Liu Bei. Honestly the worst decision made during this period was Cao Pi not Invading south during Yiling. Many of his advisors were telling him to because they knew Wu would eventually betray them anyways, But Cao Pi wanted to honor their agreement (Ironic that the Kingdom that gets portrayed as the villains the most did the least amount of betraying lol).

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Cao Pi being honorable is crazy and then a year later he tries to invade Wu after they recuperated their forces. I could see the merit behind thins

[@Dragonsking4]

I know this video is mostly focusing on the novel and the games, but historically, Liu and Sun came to an official accord and Sun was granted Jiang Xia (returned?), Chang Sha, and Gui Yang. Sun really missed out on a chance to pretend to side with Cao and possibly attack Fan with Liu Bei AND move to take Hefei, as Cao moved some of his eastern forces as a show of good faith.

[@historian252]

Cao Cao's betrayal of his close friend, Cao Cao's betrayal of Zhang Xiu, Cao Pi's actions against Xiahou Shang's wife, the entire conflicts in Wei.

[@s955120]

There is a strategic reason Shu can't focus on Wei after Battle of Fancheng: terrain. Because of mountains, Shu only have 3 route they can attack Wei from. The route on the middle is a super difficult mountain road that can only supply a small task force, not an army. The route on the west (which is Zhuge Liang will used years later) is much better, but still favor the defender. The route on the east are the easiest to attack, Wei also knows that so it will be most heavily defended. So the best strategy will be making a pincer offensive from both east and west route, Shu can break Wei's eastern defense line and threaten Luoyang if Wei put too little man power on the east. On the other hand, if Wei focus too much on the eastern front, Shu can take Liang Province, and cutting of Wei from their horse production and international trade. This is no longer possible after Battle of Fancheng, because Wu had taken Jiangling, which is the only base of operations Shu can lunch such attack from the east. Which also make the defeat in Yiling even more catastrophic, since it was their only chance to get Jiangling back. Losing Battle of Yiling had determined that Shu had lost their eastern offensive route forever, and are to be stuck with big strategic disadvantage.

[@keyblademasterclark]

I think in dw8 zhuge Liang is the one who let's Cao Cao go as part of his plan to divide the land in 3

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yes!

[@BURRAH86]

The games depict Wei as Shu's enemy. But I believe the true enemy of Shu was themselves. The sheer amount of easily remedied mistakes that Liu Bei and Guan Yu make throughout the games' stories really made sure Shu had it coming. Also, for being a brilliant general, Cao Cao definitely made some boneheaded decisions. Just shows that arrogance and hubris affects even the greatest of men.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

100% even the greatest from this time made terrible mistakes, except like Zhang Liao & Zhao Yun haha

[@Its_Lu_Bu]

For number 9, it's actually the opposite. Yuan Shao was a little too aggressive. He WAS decisive, but that led to him not listening to people like Ju Shou, who would have won everything for him. Who also, btw, suggested that more than one person should have been in watching/transporting the supplies at Wuchao.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Lol that's actually a good pint. Decisive in not kistening to his advisors 😂

[@Its_Lu_Bu]

@@TheNightowlGaming Exactly. The guy had it in the palm of his hand and threw it away like the pompous jackass he was lol

[@Mike_1nce_More]

9:15 that first picture of Yuan Shu is nightmare fuel

[@TheNightowlGaming]

😂

[@PNarbz123]

Depends on the perspective, but Cao Cao letting Liu Bei leave after Xu Province really hurt his progression in the later years.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

100% the small paper cut turned into a gashing wound for a while

[@nobudarsai9675]

DW3 Crisis Ver. 2!? Apropos for the vid nice touch! I agree with the list though i would like to add two more for consideration: 1.) Zhuge Liang actions during Wu Zhang Plains leading to Shu's defeat. 2.) most importantly! Jiang Wei failing Benevolence Camp 😂

[@TheNightowlGaming]

HAHA Im surprised you got the music right that I used! Impressive! and yeah 2 devastating ones lol

[@nobudarsai9675]

@@TheNightowlGaming oh yeah DW3 soundtrack had some bangers. Never knew any of the song names until I played DW5: Empires and you could select between 3, 4, and 5 soundtracks.

[@stingerxd89]

I think a good one would be Zhao Yun rescuing Ah Dou, not only 1 time, he did it 2 twice (the second with help from Zhang Fei). just YEET that damn baby. And Number 6 it was cuz Zhuge Liang wanted CowCow alive, he knew that Guan Yu wouldn't kill him at Huarong pass, to keep in check DongWu to the south. btw love your content keep it up bro

[@TheNightowlGaming]

haha for sure, appreciate the kind words!

[@Farman_110]

3:18 simply put cao cao was thinking with his cao pi 😏

[@TheNightowlGaming]

😎

[@Farman_110]

Taking Gan Nings Sword away than taking his twin daggers away was the worst 😢

[@TheNightowlGaming]

haha true! but that wasnt Gan NIngs choice hehe

[@aarongallardo3684]

What is his preferred weapon then? ​@TheNightowlGaming

[@barbedwire4452]

Im the only one on the planet who actually appreciated DW9 i like the fact tht its open world ad you can travel and have people visit you

[@TheNightowlGaming]

i dont think youre alone in that! Definitely the minority who likes DW9, it was definitely one of th eworst DW games

[@EmperadorHan]

I like the Empires version. At last you can control He Jin. It's my favourite character

[@Mikuru_Kun]

Have to highly disagree with 6. Guan Yu allowing Cao Cao to live was such a wise decision that even Zhuge Liang was banking on him to make that very decision. This is because at that time, with Liu Bei having no land to call his own, he would have been a sitting duck for either Wei or Wu to do away with him. However, with Cao Cao alive, Wu would still need the Sun-Liu alliance and therefore could not kill Liu Bei.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yes a very good point, stilll i think it would have been advantageous to at least have him as a hostage, maybe let Cao Cao see what it's like to live as a wandering nomad to have him gain understanding for Liu Bei or trade him for some land negotiation, idk it would be interesting ot play with

[@nigel5469]

As for number 6, its more like a smart decision than worst. Zhuge Liang intended and wanted Cao Cao to escape, so the Wu will be distracted to deal with him and also avoid Wei Force's fury and revenge while Liu Bei forces reogrnaize and regain their lost territories of Jing. That is why Zhuge Liang placed Guan Yu as last defense because he knew he would repay his debt to Cao Cao.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yes very tru! but it still wouldve been interesting to see at least capturing the guy holding him hostage, using it as leverage to do something cool, that would be interesting

[@PacificAsian2]

Worst Decisions: DW6: Character change and Renbu System (at that time) DW9: Everything Top 10 List: Honorable Mentions: Got my boy Deng Ai killed as well and Zhuge Dan joining Wu to restore Wei seemed flawed 10: Probably Zhang Xiu's was a baddie 9: Cao Cao knew this man since they were kids. Easy Win. 8: It should have been Guan Yu instead of Zhang Fei just saying 7: hey the comment I mentioned on one of your videos LETS GO 6: Guan Yu thinks Cao Cao spared me before so I'm fine right? -Wu comes barging in- 5: Yuan Shu had it coming, the man was desperate at this point 4: Lu Bu is the gameplan, Chen Gong should have known that but oh well 3: Dong Zhuo sees power enough said 2: Liu Bei did get Guan Yu's betrayers but at what cost. Almost Everyone 1: Lu Su was the only one keeping that Shu-Wu alliance alive

[@TheNightowlGaming]

LOL the first two, the HM is so sad, Deng Ai getting killed like that, yeesh

[@OrashiTV]

Zhuge Liang sending Guan Yu to protect Jing Province instead of Zhao Yun was Shu’s biggest blunder. . .

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yo! Imagine if it was zhao yun there, i dont think fan castle would've happened, he wouldve stayed put for sure

[@DenisK3000]

6:16 well that caught me off-guard haha

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Everyones fave phoenix saying hello! 😁

[@garrettshaw8161]

Yeah I agree that it is easy in the games to see number one as a massive mistake. I think that is why it is just annoying to me. I would like it to be more accurate to history and show how Guan Yu especially and Liu Bei had more blame there. So my issue is really just how I would like the games to show them differently.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

showing it from both perspectives would be dope to see, I think there are versions of it, but the versions currently definitely show more of Wu being the villain in the whole thing, but like in DW8 when Lu Meng was explaining to Guan Yu at the end, they tried to make it work but his consistent refusal pushed them to the brink.

[@planescaped]

Guan Yu was such a colossal dick in the books and totally instigated Wu into attacking them. Plus he beat and abused Mi Fang and Fu Shiren, causing their betrayal. Guy wasn't very popular in Jing...

[@historian252]

Incorrect. Liu Bei owed Sun Quan, nothing, especially as historically there was no agreement to give Jin to Sun Quan especially as Liu Bei needed Jing for Zhuge Liang's plan to work.

[@garrettshaw8161]

@@historian252 I ended up written a fairly long post here as I wanted to note your point about him needing land there. While that was correct that there was no agreement, I would still put some blame on Liu Bei for making it clear to Sun Quan that he could not be trusted. After Zhou Yu's death, Sun Quan wanted to attack Liu Zheng to take Yi. He told Liu Bei this and asked for aid, to which Liu Bei told him that he could not attack Liu Zheng. Really Liu Bei had already met Fa Zheng and Zhong Song and was making plans to take over Yi himself, as Sun Quan would find out after Liu Bei took it over. From Lu Su's SGZ. "Before this, Governor of Yìzhōu Liú Zhāng’s governance was declining and slackening, and Zhōu Yú and Gān Níng both urged [Sūn] Quán to capture Shǔ. [Sūn] Quán consulted [Liú] Bèi, [Liú] Bèi inside wished to take it for himself, and so falsely replied: “I and [Liú] Zhāng are of the Imperial Clan, and hope to rely on the [ancestral] spirits, to rectify the Hàn Court. Now [Liú] Zhāng has offended your attendants, and I can only be afraid, and not dare listen, and hope you may pardon him. If you do not accept this plea, I will resign and go into the mountains and forests.” It was also just a bad move in my view to not give Sun Quan some land in 215 without the near battles being needed. It made Liu Bei seem more as just being in it for his own gain, which if true or not, that view being spend was going to pull down odds of them still being on the same side. I believe that they were going to turn on each other at some point no matter how the matter of Jing went, however not better looking at how close battles with Sun Quan were getting, and mainly not doing anything about Guan Yu's poor treatment of the people from Sun Quan's court, speeded up the downfall of the alliance significantly. I think making a deal would of been much better, saying to Sun Quan something along the lines of "if you attack Liu Zheng it is likely that Cao Cao will see that as a opening to attack your lands, as you will likely be in the west for a time even with my help. Also if I am to build my own land I shall need to move west. I think it would be a good move for you to focus on building up your lands and taking over Hefei, while with the aid of these man on the inside of Liu Zhang's court, I find a time to take over Yi. I will then give rule of Chángshā and Guìyáng back to you. May it be written so that I cannot go back on this."

[@historian252]

@garrettshaw8161 You do realize Liu Bei gave land to Sun Quan right? And they both made an agreement on where their control of Jing would be at. It's Sun Quan'a fault for being a treacherous scumbag who wanted more power and wanted to turn against his own ally.

[@djblue056]

Tbh I thought the worst decision would’ve been Guan Yu choosing to attack Fan Castle. At the end of the day Guan Yu has been antagonizing Wu for a long time, refusing to give back the land they had promised would be theirs. Guan Yu should’ve realized Wu might take that opportunity to take the lands back while he attacked Fan Castle. Had he not Wu wouldn’t have moved. He should’ve sent a letter or something to Zhuge Liang first.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

yeah thats a good point, could definitely seeing that as being one of the worst

[@gustavocaceda8175]

Zhuge Liang: considered a tactical genius Also Zhuge Liang: let's break the terms of our alliance with Wu and expect them to take it, continue our friendship and not retaliate in any way.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

sometimes ya gamble and ya lose lol

[@mikebottomlesspitdunham2954]

I'd say my list is this. 1. Yuan Shu declaring himself Emperor. He pretty much signed his own death certificate. 2. Yuan Shao not being decisive enough and underestimating Cao Cao which he knew Cao Cao for ages, surely he should have had an idea on how resourceful Cao Cao could be. 3. Jiang Wei insisting on invading Wei as often as he did. 4. Cao Shuang or Cao Fang insisting that strategy wasn't needed to finish Shu off. 5. Cao Cao thinking that, after he beat Yuan Shao, numbers where enough to win in Chi Bi. 6. Lu Bu not listening to Chen Gong, although with Guo Jia serving Cao Cao, odds are they would have lost anyway. 7. Gan Ning going off on his own in Yi Ling. 8. Guan Yu not giving Jing to Wu, that would have saved him from his death. 9. Cao Xiu trusting Zhou Fang even after seeing what Huang Gai did with his own surrender. 10. Zhong Hui revolting.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

a solid list indeed

[@mikebottomlesspitdunham2954]

@@TheNightowlGaming thank you. I feel like out of all of the decisions made, declaring yourself Emperor in a time where you're pretty much surrounded by people who already hate you is the dumbest possible thing to do. Because if he didn't have a target on his back already, he guaranteed a bullseye right on his head.

[@nigel5469]

@@mikebottomlesspitdunham2954 Cao Shuang is the one who doesn't want strategy because he wants to make the name for himself while Cao Fang is a young boy with no real power or experience to become the emperor.

[@mikebottomlesspitdunham2954]

​@@nigel5469 thank you, I wasn't 100% sure on which was which since they are both generic NPCs.

[@newelljoseph5060]

The chaining of ships together at Chibi was the sticking point, but Cao Cao also made two critical mistakes as well; He was tricked into executing two officers he had recruited because they were enemies of Sun Quan and knew how to navigate the rivers and area effectively, so killing them weakened his knowledge to traverse the area, all from forged messages of 'presumed treachery' Secondly he believed that Huang Gai was going to defect to his side. A seasoned and loyal retainer since Sun Jian's reign and he thought he was going to switch sides because of a little disagreement with management

[@TheNightowlGaming]

He did fall for some dastardly tricks leading to disaster along with the chains

[@legoshi6769]

Nice choices. (My honest worst decisions they did with DW games) Taking out Gan Ning Pirate sword was the biggest L. Number 2: adding Open world was also a huge L. 3: took em so many years to add the dueling mechanic back. 4: no Liao Hua nor Ma Teng 5: cloning weapons 6: adding the characters Iconic weapons as DLC's 7: not remastering the older titles on the New gen consoles like Series S/X or PS5. 8: DW online osts not in the newer DW titles 9: not being able to customize MC on Origins 10/honorable mentions: they removed free mode for DW7, items from the past games havent returned since DW3-5 (8 has solething similar to it), no cao cao troop drop to the ground after he hear Zhang Fei roar. And last but not lease we havent been able to create out own character to play on Free Mode since DW5XL or have Destiny Mode.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

For sure, i made a simlar short a while back, maybe i could make a bigger one

[@legoshi6769]

@@TheNightowlGaming ah. Okay. And no problem.

[@vinhquanghoang8301]

Yuan Shao had had MULTIPLE opportunities to attack Cao Cao but he somehow always missed the chance. Yuan Shu on the other hand, before he declared himself Emperor, was ruling over a huge area and with Sun Ce conquering the South, those territories technically belong to Yuan Shu. So he had pretty much everything to be a big player in the game to rule china. Liu Bei taking Lu Bu in is like a deliberate choice to 1) has more to fight Cao Cao when he come back since the only reason Cao Cao leave the 2nd time was because Lu Bu and his rebellion (If im not wrong the 1st time Cao Cao attack Liu Bei wasnt there and Cao Cao leave because he ran out of ration). 2) Liu Bei is still trying to build up his powerbase, so as the dude that's always nice with others, he can't really turn away Lu Bu when Lu Bu asking for help because it would mean that Liu Bei is afraid of Cao Cao and people that either do not want to serve Cao Cao or those who just prefer Liu Bei because of his reputation would not join Liu Bei. Wu and their infinite military wisdom is why the faction is my least liked. Sun Quan is not a good military commander but he always wanted to be the one that's in charge of the army.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

some interesting points

[@SinCity2100]

Worst Decisions emperors do is the Inheritance system.. The sons may end up screwing over anything that the late ruler did, or may be a weak ruler, like Liu Shan, and granted, the Shu Kingdom was weak, but giving the rule to an incompetent ruler doomed the kingdom to fail.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

idk if it is the successors fault, they're kind of told "hey you're gonna be the ruler whether you like it or not" so some of them get stuck with it and put in a hopeless situation

[@Marcell2aG]

Honorable Mention for me is Wang Lang thinking he could easily debate the roast master Zhuge Liang. That L literally cost him his life.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Lol for sure!

[@nigel5469]

The real worst decision is Jiang Wei's reckless, selfishness and making empty promises for invading Wei for 11 expedition is the cause of Shu's downfall. He was too focused on attacking the enemies and fulfilling his deceased masters' dream of benevolence, which not only led the most corrupted eunuch - Huang Hao to takeover the court and get the supports from ministers, but also drained the Shu's resources and weakened the defense. Because of that, Shu was not properly prepared to repel and defeat the Wei Invasion in their final years.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

yeah it kin d of was a double edged sword like you mentioned, both sides were deteriating during late SHu

[@Sean.Turtles]

*As someone who enjoys older DW more, I think power creep is a problem with every new iteration of the game*

[@TheNightowlGaming]

like the exponential rise in power players get for characters that leads them to sweeping thru levels like butter?

[@Sean.Turtles]

@TheNightowlGaming Precisely. Despite combat looking greater with every new iteration, it doesn't necessarily feel greater. On the positive side, combat continues to look more visually stunning and theatrical. However on the negative side, it takes away from the technicality and challenge. What I like about the combat in older DW games is how grounded each swing of a weapon feels. Some weapons have naturally longer or shorter ranges. Some normal attacks have a sweeping motion while others have a poke or a downwards strike that covers less area. I find it so satisfying when I'm able to gauge the distance of a weapon's range for an attack and precisely land each strike on enemies. What I don't like about the combat in newer DW games is how handicapped weapons feel. I feel like every weapon has the range of a 12 foot pole and every attack has the area of a 360 degree sweeping strike so any enemy in sight is hit. The lack of needing to gauge distance and precision is what makes me feel like combat is more for show than it is gameplay.

[@BlackRose88-04]

With the battle of Chi Bi Historically it was said that Cao Cao said if only Guo Jia was here and with the what if version of Chi Bi in Dynasty Warriors 8 is that Guo Jia was the only one that was suspicious of Pang Tong and sent the Player after Pang Tong which in stopping the chained ships plan of Pang Tong

[@TheNightowlGaming]

yah Guo Jia is to Chibi like Fa Zheng is to Yiling 😎

[@OrashiTV]

The WORST decision Dynasty Warriors ever made was the pivot to the “1 vs. 1000” formula introduced in the PS3 era of games!

[@TheNightowlGaming]

yeah but i think DW origins will balance out that feeling once and for all

[@BTD626]

With the time/culture I understand how most of the crazy things went down. Life was kinda different then

[@TheNightowlGaming]

crazy different!

[@benjaminholmes5089]

Sun Ce going out hunting alone was a really stupid decision, as it led to his death at a rather young age.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

So sad

[@erikschaeffer8419]

As for the guan yu letting cao cao go, in books it was zhugeliangs plan to have guan yu let him go so that he felt his debts to cao cao was paid back and wouldnt have any honor issues. Cool history bros video is what i think im reme.bering but that couldve been novel and not historical

[@TheNightowlGaming]

yeah i dont think it was history and yeah cool history bros covers the novel very well

[@mikebottomlesspitdunham2954]

Guan Yu letting Cao Cao go did happen in the novel, probably happened in real life too.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

yeah , i dont remember readin about it for historical stuff

[@Cardoza.Nsmg3]

Jiang Wei my guy he was a prince of my era of litness but God to me in my mind the way I played this man and how he swam through people with his trident 🔱 I was like oh shit and he looked young and I was a teenager so I was like bet they listen me

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Jaing wei is a fun character to play

[@kamuisenketsu7117]

What an interesting topic in general, id definitely say lie bei keeping lu bu around or giving him his own little pocket to live off definitely wasn't the greatest of decisions, as much as I do love lu bu as a character he's just to much of a problem to let fester unchecked and possibly start a mutiny. Also Wu betraying Shu is also so just very upsetting because they spent so much time forming an alliance with each other marrying sun shang xiang to liu bei as a piece treaty between them even and then in a single moment all of that built up and trust they had with each other was swept up in a river of flames.

[@planescaped]

In the book Lu Bu was actually giving it a real effort to support and serve Liu Bei faithfully. It was a number of little things, the swiss cheese model you could say, that led to him turning on Liu Bei. From Zhang Fei disrespecting and fighting with him, to Cao Cao and IIRC, Cheng Yu hatching a plot to make them suspicious of each other. I always thought Lu Bu, and Zhang Liao by extension, staying with Liu Bei would be a hypothetical they would pursue.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yeah the wu - shu, yilling craze was definitely insane

[@BlazeWitch]

Koei: The series is dead we need a completely reboot. What DW fan really want: Keep all the old stuff, just adding new characters and scenarios.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

idk... you guys might be surprised with the new game (in a way 👀)

[@GongGong-i3e]

Making Liu Shan playable is the biggest mistake

[@TheNightowlGaming]

A bit harsh lol 🤣

[@planescaped]

They should've made Liu Shan's character different from the nepo baby weirdo he is... and put Huang Hao in the game for that matter. I think Huang Hao would be a fascinating addition from a narrative standpoint.

[@DemonChildCC]

I really liked conquest mode.. what I hate these days is how they made empires more about politics and governing over going straight into battle.. I'll be one of the few to say, while I hated open world in 9, 9 wasn't that bad of a game.. it took forever to get everything just to make all the weapons.. plus, I made a video of me shooting bears just to send it to a friend who is a Bears fan..

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Lol the savagery at the end, it wasn't inherently bad I guess just compared to the rest it sucked the most

[@zachurich5046]

Guan Yu SHOULD have captured Cao Cao after Chi Bi, as that is exactly what Cao Cao did to him earlier after Guan Du. But Guan Yu is shown to be slightly arrogant.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

YEs! Capturing him would have been so intersting !

[@frankieseward8667]

Yiling was doomed for defeat. Even if Lu Xun wasn't incharge, things will end very badly. Also trusting Pang Tong to chaining ships must have been such a bruh moment Xinhshi was definitely a bruh moment for Cao Shuang. Never have i seen such military incompetence. Yuan shu was the epitome was nepotism and ineptitude. And Lu Bu was the epitome of arrogance and recklessness. And Guan Yu was so close. So close to leaving alive. But man did he drop the ball. Should never had raided that supply depot.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Cao shuang was such a dummy lol i agree with all these!

[@frankieseward8667]

@@TheNightowlGaming you should do another top 10 because it's interesting

[@TheNightowlGaming]

@@frankieseward8667 another 10 worst decisions, pt 2? 🤔🤔 mebbe

[@Ser-Smiley]

Removing Sun Ce's tonfas. Number 1 worst decision.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yeah def not the best lol

[@erikschaeffer8419]

I honestly feel that the yi ling was mainly on sun quan. He was a shit leader all around honestly. I agree with you that real strategists wouldnt have agreed with quan on this one. A few lands to essentially commit to dooming your kingdom in the long run isnt worth it. Zhou yu told quan that their land was plentiful enougj wothout jing, he was just greedy and dumb.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yeah someone must've been in his ear about it

[@DynastyZwarrior90]

Cao Cao letting Liu Bei go to fight Yuan Shu was also a bad decision. He had him imprisoned in Xuchang but let him get away causing him trouble later. Even if he was trying to kill him through Yuan Shu, it was still a mistake because then Yuan Shu would join forces with Yuan Shao.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yep

[@mildanvongrius5530]

For 1, Wu did intent to capture Guan Yu to avoid conflict with Liu Bei and his Shu army in the future, but Lu Meng got impulsive and execute Guan Yu instead.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yeesh that cost them dearly

[@diostone6975]

The way the franchise made Shu like the protagonist of the game 🤭 the goody goody hero of noble deeds lmao

[@TheNightowlGaming]

I mean they got good moments 😌

[@Farman_110]

13:07 which he could have avoided had he given Jing back to Wu guy set himself up to lose plus it exposed him as a phoney guy.

[@planescaped]

Guan Yu, like many in the Shu kingdom, saw war with Wu to be inevitable once they took care of Wei. It's unknown whether Zhuge Liang and Liu Bei intended to coexist with them, but it is unlikely. So from that point of view I can see why Guan Yu didn't want to do it... but it was also incredibly foolish and shortsighted to burn bridges with their ally while they still needed them.

[@Farman_110]

@ exactly well worded my friend

[@teejaemon]

Yi Ling and Liu Bei's camping decision was worse over Lu Meng and Wu's betrayal imo. At least Wu got Jing, killed Shu's top ranking general then, ultimately, through Lu Xun and Liu Bei's blunder, pushed back Shu and had them to depend on Wu instead.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

some merit to this for sure

[@Ainomato]

Even in the original romance of the three kingdoms and from official history books, Wu was always the weakest of the three and yet they're the ones who ruined both Wu and Shu's chances of ever defeating Wei. the Entire downfall and descent of the three kingdoms leading to Wei and eventually Jin to win was their fault. They had nobody after Sun Quan and Yi Ling they failed almost all of their campaigns to the North (He Fei was definitely their most embarrassing, having a huge numerical advantage and be taken out by a small garrison). Wu ruined everything.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

LOL a bit harsh, but definitely some truth to it, if there was better diplomacy within wu and shu maybe history wouldve been different

[@xenoknight7187]

As much as I like Liu Bei Trusting Lu Bu of all people was SO freaking stupid.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

SO dumb lol

[@Premium-f7u]

Hey night owl. Can you make a video of all the parents/ relationships in this game? I know there are cousins, sons, daughters etc but it can be confusing at times

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Haha for sure!

[@PuchimonExtreme]

I'd argue that adopting Lu Bu was not Dong Zhuo's worst decision. Adopting Lu Bu was actually a "good one" as he also did not yet have said "history of betrayal". His real worst decision is more "Not letting Lu Bu have the girl"

[@TheNightowlGaming]

thats a good point, but the guy did murder his former step father & like they say history repeats lol

[@PuchimonExtreme]

@@TheNightowlGaming Dong Zhuo made him do it. I mean, thats the whole idea of defection. So as far as Dong Zhuo should be concerned, Lu Bu had 0 bad track record. Basically, you can call anyone in 3K stupid for recruiting Lu Bu except Ding Yuan and Dong Zhuo.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

@PuchimonExtreme I wouldn't say stupid, but there's no way that Dong didn't notice the arrogance emanating off of him to the point where he should know that he can contain him for so long and then going after his woman, how did he not put 2 and 2 together that eventually something would've happened. Dongs arrogance in thinking nothing would happen led to his death

[@PuchimonExtreme]

@@TheNightowlGaming Like I was saying. Its precisely the "going after Lu Bu's woman" part that is the stupid thing/worst decision you can credit Dong Zhuo with. When Dong Zhuo adopted Lu Bu, Lu Bu still did not have a traitorous track record. Sure Lu Bu was arrogant but he was also the literal strongest man alive in ancient China at that point in time so the arrogance is to be expected. Lu Bu actually provided Dong Zhuo with a lot of benefits at least until he decided to kill Dong. And the only reason for that is Diao Chan. So the actual worst decision part should be that instead of "adopting Lu Bu". As for actual history, Dong Zhuo apparently also has a habit of throwing short halberds at Lu Bu when he gets angry so we can probably put that in the list if we are talking history. Ancient chinese people are stupid -_-.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

@@PuchimonExtreme Haha for sure, some solid points indeed! Big Dong

[@mistertaz94]

Easily one of the worst decisions in story / novel it was Liu Bei entrustung Jing to Guan Yu. Dude was arrogant as all get out, respected none of his peers, and respected his so called "ally" of Wu even less. Like I'm not even mad at Wu for jumping ship to help Wei take him out. Imagine if you tried recementing the bond between your kingdom and another by offering a political marriage between you child and one of the other sides top officers only to have them go "how can the son of a dog hope to marry the daughter of a tiger?". The audacity especially in calling yourself the "tiger" to someone whose own father was literally called the "Tiger of Jiangdong". Dude made every mistake possible and instead of realizing his brother screwed the pooch Liu Bei went "our arch nemesis is now Wu! How dare they prioritize their own interests above my own!"

[@mistertaz94]

Also in defense of a few things I'll address as the video goes. On 8, apparently Lu Bu WAS initially intent on staying allied with Liu Bei until a drunk Zhang Fei beat and harassed one of Lu Bu's closest generals (I believe he was either Lu Bus cousin or brother in law, I can't recall) which led to him being outraged and rebelling. It was less a case of Lu Bu bei g untrustworthy and more of Liu Bei being stupid enough to entrust any responsibility with Zhang Fei beyond stabbing someone else. Ironically he had told Zhang Fei to make a pledge to neither beat his men or guests and to remain sober while away and he was unable to do either so it was more like Zhang Fei sabotaging and ruining everything. For 7 it is less of Cao Cao being dumb and more of Zhou Yu being one of the top three minds of his time. To get the plan to even pass he had to sabotage the Cai Clan which had capitulated Jing to Wei by framing Cai Mao of being a traitor when Cai Mao was the premier naval officer of the Cao forces and of Jing as a whole.

[@mistertaz94]

On point 6, that was apparently a plot by Zhuge Liang backfiring. Zhuge Liang knew as soon as Cao Cao was eliminated it would be a conflict between Wu and Shu when Shu had no actual territory to their name. ZL had supposedly explicitly sent Guan Yu to that pass knowing his honor would forbid the slaying of Cao Cao. Interestingly when he is called out for this by Wu he plays it off as a "what? No! How would I have known he would help further my idea of splitting the land in 3 until my side had enough manpower to be a force ready to take over!"

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Yeah for sure lol #6 is a good point, alot of others had pointed out for #8 though its interesting alot of that kind of "cancels" out so what I mean is that 1) in history Fei wasnt a drunk, he was just a meanie, did he still beat one of lu bu's men inciting rebellion idk 2) that means in game, they dont have Fei beat anyone and let it fall on Lu Bu inciting the revolt - so they both cancel since they both lie in falsety, if that makes sense lol & coming from just the in game personification of Lu Bu they had him incite the revolt on his own even after serving Shu and Shao and pillaging both their lands along with murdering Dong Zhuo, him being there in the first place was a huge gamble :)

[@nigoki0291]

@@mistertaz94 worse, Cao Bao the guy that Zhang Fei beat up is Lu Bu's father in law lol

[@dylanwoodward5256]

The more they delve into these characters, the less honorable they seem 😅 Thats a shame.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Haha I wouldnt say that, they just make some questionable decisions sometimes

[@migri_19]

Man I really wished that Dynasty Warriors do an adaptation of the The Ravages of Time plot and character design

[@TheNightowlGaming]

ive heard of that

[@frozenyeti-w5q]

I would see the last one as it is shu (guan yu)'s fault that they break their promise to wu, not giving the land they promised. That was an act of betrayal (shu did it first), that started the spark of betrayal in wu and then leading to guan yu's death, yi ling, etc that makes both of them suffered a great loss.

[@frozenyeti-w5q]

I just scrolled down the comments after i write mine, and oh my how much this has been discussed😂

[@TheNightowlGaming]

For sure, faults on both sides but killing Yu after capturing him I think was a mistake

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Haha it has been discussed quite a bit, cause it's not wrong I just think wu took it too far

[@LtheOriginal]

I like how half of this list is just Cao Cao and Lu Bu

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Lol they did appear quite a bit lol

[@lukesmith8967]

Nice vid

[@TheNightowlGaming]

appreciate u!

[@Coven_of_Hags]

That master Lao cameo! 😂

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Haha yeah I was looking for someone generic for Xiu and grabbed him! Lol

[@RosyMiranto]

Had Cao Cao didn't make so many Chokes listed in this video, perhaps he might actually unite China after all xD

[@TheNightowlGaming]

there would be no games!

[@RosyMiranto]

@@TheNightowlGaming hahahha... We can leave that to the what-if though, like... DW8 for example xD

[@shadowemperor5766]

I thought that dynasty warriors 9 is going to be a challenge. But this is too easy.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Dw9 was a mistaek for sure lol, they tried something new but they should've tried a lil harder

[@1KingMajin]

Can you do a video of ranking the best "zhuge liang's stone sentinel maze?"

[@TheNightowlGaming]

sure!

[@jimjones9631]

in regards to 1, I really would have found it interesting if they captured Guan Yu and used to to force Shu into vassalization

[@TheNightowlGaming]

see that would've been cool, an interesting alternative

[@dantesparda4493]

Not a mistake but if Zhao Yun was indeed the leader of the 5 tiger generals, the arrogance and harassment of Guan Yu & Zhang Fei may have lowered a lot more than usual, you know which led to their deaths respectively

[@TheNightowlGaming]

hmm u think them being leaders of the 5 led to their arrogance? Interesting theory

[@meemacat4632]

In real history Yuan Shao is the best General in Three kingdom history But they lost because of a coincidence that Cao Cao's side found a source of supplies, and the tribes outside the outpost respected Yuan Shao extremely.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Idk about the best that's a spicy take haha but perhaps underrated in a sense

[@NachtKaiser666]

Yeah, Wu betraying Shu was a mistake in hindsight. Shu had been hogging the Jing province, promising half of it to Wu since the Battle of Chi Bi ended, and I guess Guan Yu's arrogant response to Wu (something along the lines of "my brother is the legitimate heir of the Han dynasty, who are you, curs, to demand part of his domain?") really pushed them. The Wu/Shu alliance was already barely holding out with scotch tape. If it wasn't Fan Castle, they would end up fighting later for something else. We have to keep in mind that Zhou Yu's strategy to unite the land was one of two kingdoms, Zhuge Liang was the one who thought of using a third force to distract the much more powerful Wei. *all based on events from the novel*

[@TheNightowlGaming]

for sure, definitely some errors made on both sides

[@nigel5469]

Cao Ang is Cao Cao's eldest son while Cao An Min is his nephew, not son.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

I always say both sons, but im sure Cao saw An Min as his son as well

[@T5473K9]

Wu was in the complete wrong for their betrayal, I think Sun Quan was too fixated on not being a good enough leader for Wu that he just let his strategists fight amongst each other over what was right and let them talk him into going against the alliance as if his sister's marriage and their drive for peace didn't mean anything. Like they were just used guns that ran out of bullets after the battle of Yiling, Since they basically went Missing in Action when Shu and Wei/Jin were still at each others throats.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

definitely a wild call, but perhaps there is some truth to this, at least the way the games portary Quan

[@teddys5775]

I’d like to see the worst game mechanic/feature from each game because that’s what I thought this was going to be

[@TheNightowlGaming]

I could do that 😎

[@JellyGODJet]

Maybe Yuan Shu not sending the supply convoy out to Sun Jian🤷🏾‍♂️😂

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Oh yeah forgot about that one!

[@JellyGODJet]

@ Bro, I watch you heavy and you’re as much a warriors fan as I am but you forgot that?🤦🏾‍♂️😂 that’s what happens when you have DW4 as your second to least fav Dynasty game

[@TheNightowlGaming]

@@JellyGODJet Well in terms of being one of the Worst decsion in the game, I dont think it weighs that heavily 😁😁

[@JellyGODJet]

@ Lol that was a real life decision that Yuan Shu made, I dont remember if it’s in the novel or in actual history, but DW4 portrays that bad decision beautifully “If we send supplies now, the glory would be all Sun Jian’s…. don’t send the supply convoy out just yet”

[@Roronoa2011Zoro]

Agree with u 100%

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Appreciate it 😎

[@lifewithouthope7120]

I quite disagree with No.6. After Quan Yu had let Cao Cao escape, you should consider that Liu Bei was still a weak faction, and their collaboration with Wu was pretty fragile. At that time, Cao Cao became the common enemy of the whole country, and everyone wanted to defeat Cao Cao, mostly because they wanted to seize the country themselves, and Wu was no different. If Quan Yu killed Cao Cao, Wu would definitely destroy another very dangerous that was also their ally, Liu Bei. So Quan Yu letting Cao Cao go was actually a smart move that buying Liu Bei time to strengthen his army, as Wu was still fighting Cao Cao's army. Of course, this is just my take.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

A goo dpoint as well & i think that was part of Zhuge plan when he said it was part of his plan cause that probably would have happened, but idk it would have been interesting to at least capture the guy maybe hold him hostage and Liu bei negotiates land acquisition or vassalage or something, wouldve been interesting

[@lifewithouthope7120]

@@TheNightowlGaming It's possible, but personally, I think holding Cao Cao as a hostage would be even more risky because Cao Cao was known to have the Emperor in his hand. All warlords already claimed him as an enemy of the country. If Liu Bei held him, the shift of power would change, and all the warlords would see him as the same as Cao Cao. Although Liu Bei claimed that he was one of the Emperor's relatives, not many warlords bought that and they would rise up and attack him. Also, if Liu Bei held Cao Cao, his men would not stand idle and would take any chance to rescue him, which caused more trouble for Liu Bei from outside and inside. So, holding Cao Cao hostage would cause more problems than releasing him and letting Cao Cao deal with Chi Bi's aftermath rather than Liu Bei dealing with it himself.

[@AnnabellaGoodman-k4j]

Hi bro!!!!

[@TheNightowlGaming]

BOOCHY!

[@Ryko000]

Sun Ce's lack of tonfas should be up there.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Different list ✨️ 🤙

[@rellicproduction]

Going in blind, my first guess is the slaying of Guan Yu

[@EmperorDionx]

Nah that would be a good decision considering that it was the beginning of the downward spiral in shu

[@rellicproduction]

@EmperorDionx you say that but it was literally his number one, so my guess was right on the money

[@EmperorDionx]

@@rellicproduction I say it's a good decision because I'm biased. I don't like shu lol

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Niceee 😎

[@WARLORD626]

It doesn't beat 9 empire's with the auto rush down toward your* enemies ruining your* combo's.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

9e got lots of faults, don't get me started haha

[@infinitememegod]

Guan Yu spares cao cao, mistake on the list. Guan yu gets defeated by Wei and Wu, mistake on the list. I’m starting to think that guan yu is a problem.

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Lol so I guess they decided to remove the problem, which created a bigger problem 😂

[@steel066]

They need to remake dw 5 It's the only way they'll get any leverage Or at least I'll purchase it immediately it's for my enjoyment anyways

[@TheNightowlGaming]

Dw5 remake would be insane