The Worst Moment in Trans TV History | Family Guy

[@gregorehorror]

My former abusive cis straight roommate used to tell me to learn to take a joke during transphobic moments in this show while he howled laughing about it, but then he'd angrily turn it off when they'd make a religious joke.

[@KaijuKillerdude]

He seems like a massive hypocrite

[@theothertonydutch]

@@KaijuKillerdude Everyone is a hypocrite, though. People tend to have double standards because having actual standards is kind of untenable. I feel a lot of times, people are assholes because they are dishonest with themselves, avoid facing their own problems and instead take that out on others. Hypocrisy isn't the most problematic thing, more of a symptom. It is utter ignorance to ones self and a lack of emotional intelligence that leads to people bullying other people.

[@SashaRomeroMusic]

@@theothertonydutch no, not everyone is a hypocrite, at least not to the same degree. And even if you are a true moral relativist, that’s still a standard. If you are constantly avoiding taking a strong stance on anything, that just means you have enough privilege to where most social debates don’t tangibly affect your life, and that you’re tacitly siding with the status quo IE conservatism

[@FabulousSquidward]

​​@@SashaRomeroMusic wooord

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Hypocrite 💯

[@yeenbean3318]

"So now you're happy and I'm miserable." That cut deep because I hear that implicitly (sometimes explicitly) from people I love dearly every day. I hear it so much that it keeps me from fully transitioning.

[@AmyAberrant]

I know it’s easier said than done, but I hope you can realise that their misery is not your business

[@mantistoboggan1503]

This is honestly the main response I've gotten from people. Never that explicit but now they'll regularly say "well I've been so supportive through this" whenever they want something, as if their support is a special prize for good behaviour.

[@kindapunkyrocky]

Exactly. People need to realize that how they feel is not important to trans people who need support. Hope one day you have the ability to fully transition!

[@involith]

god yeah, i remember being hesitant to come out after i started living w my aunt bcus she expressed happiness at 'finally having another girl in the house' when she has three sons. im very lucky to have never been guilted by those i care about regarding my transition, this was a comment made before she had any idea i was trans in any form, and im always so deeply sorry for those whos loved ones respond in such cruel ways. the 'misery' you feel in response to someone you know coming out as trans means nothing, your feelings shouldnt keep someone else in the closet just because you cant accept change

[@RobinParravel]

My brother told me how incredibly it hurt him that I don't like my birth name. That interaction is keeping me from even telling him my chosen name, much less asking him to refer to me with it. Not even talking about possibly telling him that I'm transgender.

[@Hamantha]

Shout out to Meg for still using her preferred pronouns despite being hurt and offended by what she said

[@xwormbonesx]

I know it’s because Meg is supposed to be the “naive loser”, but she literally is the nicest person in the family lmao

[@PhoenixRising87]

Meg = a good grrrrl.

[@SpoopySquid]

​@@xwormbonesx suddenly remembering the episode where Meg choosing to stay in the abusive relationship with her family instead of leaving is framed as selfless and heroic

[@LieseFury]

correct pronouns, not "preferred".

[@Allgloss312]

@@LieseFury the terms are basically interchangeable.

[@StonedHunter]

I mean this is the team of creators that said, out loud, that because they couldn't relate to a teenage girl all they could think to do was horrifically abuse her to no end. Sadly are any of us surprised they can't handle lgbt+ topics and clearly have little interest in doing so genuinely? Thank you for covering this. It likely was not an easy video to make.

[@switchingtime]

Wait, what? I believe it, but also wtf? Jesus.

[@PhoenixRising87]

I hate this show and its lazy-ass team of creators.

[@AmyAberrant]

They said that about who?? Meg??

[@renaissancewoman3770]

Ouch. Oof.

[@MasoTrumoi]

​@@AmyAberrant Yeah that was their justification for why they started her off in such a bad place and turned her into even more of a punching bag.

[@SerchBrony]

The line I hated the most from that entire episode was Brian saying that transpeople had to notify the neighborhood when they moved.... as if they were sexual predators.

[@jesusrox4u]

Yeah, that’s really messed up

[@rocketsfan05]

where there's smoke, there's fire

[@jesusrox4u]

@@rocketsfan05 Idk why but that's reminding me of a line from the Hotel Mario game. "Where there's smoke, they pinch back." Idk why I thought of that.

[@PipeGuy64Bit]

God that joke certainly aged when you think about it

[@eagonwild]

​@@ishaangovardhan9090but jokes are supposed to be funny

[@redjirachi1]

The fact the sex offender is getting the emotional episodes is staggering in its tone-deafness

[@g_o_l_d1113]

You are getting mad at a comedy show

[@Plex_Viridian]

@@g_o_l_d1113 comedy is supposed to be funny though. this show is not.

[@SweetTaleTeller]

Comedy isn't immune to criticism@@g_o_l_d1113

[@mole6140]

​@@g_o_l_d1113comedy is supposed to be funny

[@Mentallyheld]

@@g_o_l_d1113 i think your missing the point gold

[@t.funkthecoolmunk5472]

I think the best way to describe the episode “quagmire’s dad” is being passive aggressive to trans people. The writers may claim that they support trans people but still blatantly throw shade at them.

[@user-pi3hd2bt3f]

I really don't understand how you can have someone histerically laugh at the prospect that a trans woman is a real woman Or have someone throw away a perfectly good cake before even taking a bite just because it was made by a trans person And STILL have the nerve to say you support trans people It's embarassing

[@waltdill927]

The "writers" don't have to support anything or any cause, actually.

[@thatdumbass9856]

​@waltdill927 and we don't have to respect their beliefs

[@CharlotteSWeb-oh7ou]

@@waltdill927 "You can't force people to be good" isn't the winning argument you think it is.

[@waltdill927]

@@CharlotteSWeb-oh7ou I agree. Virtue is its own reward. And that's no quote of mine anyway.

[@nautil_us]

There is this whole thing in comedy called the "wrong laugh" where the intent is to laugh at how bigoted/old fashioned a character is, but people are instead laughing with the character. A good example is the dutch TV show "de luizenmoeder" about primary school teachers, where the teacher explains to her class that one kid has two dads with the iconic line "and we do not think that is weird, we just think that it is very special". The clear intent is laughing at how weird (christian) teachers are with gay people, but the largest reaction from the audience was "finally we can laugh at these things again! We are indeed uncomfortable with gay people and finally someone says it out loud". That's not what family guy is doing though, even in the most charitable interpretation were supposed to be glad that the main characters say things we agree with but don't dare to say out loud

[@dinosaysrawr]

See also: All In the Family and South Park.

[@kaedotmoe]

I think it's actually a bit more nuanced than that, but only so that it is worse. I think that the core message is supposed to be bigoted, but that the laughter is in fact at least partially directed at the bigotry of the characters, but only so that it launder's the audiences' guilt. Like the scene with louis throwing the good out, you /are/ supposed to find trans people disgusting and that's funny, but also you arent as bad as louis and that's funny, so you're ok.

[@nautil_us]

@@kaedotmoe yeah basically. There is "plausible" deniability there which makes it easier to laugh of genuine complaints people have because "they're supposed to be bad people". Its very frustrating

[@AmyAberrant]

Like boys did with Eric Cartman for years

[@MasoTrumoi]

​@@dinosaysrawr South Park does both. It's moral integrity is very flimsy and in some things they're very progressive but in others I have never seen such conservative vitriol.

[@izzygrosof]

Thanks for the video! I just wanted to add: Brian is a dog. Any time he and a person have sex, it's pretty gross. Yes, he's sentient, so it's not unethical, but seeing as the whole episode is framed around physical attractiveness, how much worse can it get than literally being an animal? And yet, the dog is the one who's grossed out by the human.

[@Drakewhobesilent]

In fact one of the baffling things about brian is that he has no attractive qualities about him whatsoever but he’s all the time having sex with attractive young women just because he’s the wish fulfillment self insert for the writers

[@themyofmy]

​@@Drakewhobesilentfucked up that the writers of family guy are all otherkin

[@magmixwhatever1644]

Also, while I get it might be unintentional, having the trans character have sex with a dog is... a pretty bad look imho. Like there's already a sex criminal "joke" in there so i'd not be shocked if it doubled as a bestiality "joke"

[@GumSkyloard]

I think the "joke" is "Look!! The dog who has sex with humans (which is gross) thinks that having sex with a trans woman is gross!! Isn't that ironic? Hahahahaha!!" Eugh.

[@wyattsteel411]

@@themyofmy There's nothing fucked up about being otherkin. There is something fucked up about these writers though.

[@trinaq]

Thank you for mentioning this episode, Lily. I always look forward to your take, and the fact that they dehumanised Ida by referring to her with "It" pronouns is just sickening.

[@iamupsidedown5657]

also really insulting to people who genuinely prefer it/its pronouns

[@kalynw2490]

​@@iamupsidedown5657 why? I think most people who use it/it's pronouns are doing it in the same way you would reclaim a slur, making it less hurtful and dehuminizing

[@thatrantinggirl7376]

@@kalynw2490 some people genuinely like those pronouns and think they fit them

[@SyerasSanctum]

​@@kalynw2490I use it pronouns because they align with my gender. While I do know of some people who do use it pronouns to reclaim them, myself and some others just use it because that's what we are. An it. That's what we're comfortable with. A lot of people seem to think that people who prefer it pronouns are doing it because 'we have low self esteem' or because 'we just want to be quirky and not use they/them'. That's not the case. I don't care to put up with being treated like an object and my pronouns aren't an excuse for people to do that. I don't use it pronouns because I see myself as less than someone else. I use it because that's what's comfortable. And I do not use they/them pronouns instead of it pronouns because they do not align with my gender. They/them has always felt like a perfect neutral to me, a balance between masculinity and femininity. While I know this isn't the case for all people who use they/them, that's how I perceive they/them whenever it's used to refer to me. I am not a perfect neutral. I am not even nonbinary. I am a trans man and it pronouns align with my gender in a way that other pronouns can't. I'm not using it pronouns because I want to be different; I am using it pronouns because I don't like being misgendered. And I won't allow people to misgender me for their own comfort. TLDR: I use it pronouns because they align with my gender and a lot of people already seem to think that people with it pronouns hate themselves or are just being quirky when that isn't the case.

[@introusas]

Something many real trans people have experienced, myself included.

[@LightFrogs]

I don't watch family guy, but as a child of a trans woman, who came out when i was around 12, this deeply hurts me. because i know that despite me loving her and she giving everything to make sure I have a good life, this is how a lot of people see my family. ofc its harder for her then it is for me, although she is one of the strongest people I know. Thank you for covering this topic

[@Kitty-the-Bunny]

Oh, hey, same! In my case I was more like 15 when she came out but still I'm happy to come across someone else with a similar family experience here but also yeah... yeah. I agree with all of this.

[@caseys2698]

@Emperor_Stork_ACFIdid you even watch the video? I would hope if you did you would find that, no, it isn’t, especially this terrible episode.

[@Stairdweller]

I'm a trans man. The way Meg/future Ron is portrayed in the Family Guy movie legitimately contributed to the internalized shame that kept me unhappily presenting as my birth sex until I was nearly 30. Edit: I should clarify that by "the movie" I mean the long-form animated feature they made between their first cancellation and the show being picked up again. I think it got split up into 3 or 4 linked episodes? I haven't watched this show in years and I don't know if they have made anything else that could be called "the movie" since then.

[@prageruwu69]

god same. it made me so ashamed of myself.

[@xwormbonesx]

Waaiitt.. Meg is a trans man in the movie?

[@Stairdweller]

@@xwormbonesx Yeah - in the future portion of the movie.

[@nittonama3]

real first world problems

[@prageruwu69]

@@nittonama3 bro what

[@blueizumi]

I was a kid when I first saw the "There's Something about Marrying" Simpsons episode and the Family Guy episode that introduced Ida Quagmire and even then despite knowing little to nothing about trans people I always felt uncomfortable and disturbed by the treatment and portrayal of Veronica and Ida. I always found it sad that shows that could push out pro-gay episodes could drop the ball so badly when it came to trans people.

[@prageruwu69]

oh yeah, that simpsons episode always made me feel really uncomfortable even as a kid.

[@blueizumi]

@@prageruwu69 for real, I couldn’t tell why at the time but the weird glee Marge had over Veronica being a man and then the way the episode revealed why he was pretending to be a woman made child me feel like it was meant to be insulting to another group instead of just an actual male predator, and now as an adult I realize it was the harmful stereotype that trans women who aren’t “gay in denial” are “secretly men who transition to ruin womens’ sports or harm lesbians”

[@WhatWouldLubitschDo]

@@blueizumi they really gave it away with the title of the episode. It’s a play on There's Something About Miriam, so anyone who thinks it wasn’t aimed at trans people must have conveniently missed that!

[@cassandramarin4547]

@@WhatWouldLubitschDo I may be wrong but I thought the title is a reference to the film There's Something About Mary

[@WhatWouldLubitschDo]

@@cassandramarin4547 the title of There’s Something About Miriam was no doubt a play on There’s Something About Mary. I don’t think that creates some kind of credible hypothesis that the writers of the Simpsons just happened to have a 7 year old movie title on the brain to the degree that they simply overlooked the connotations of giving an episode about a man posing as a woman almost the exact same title as a tv show that had just come out the year before, featuring a trans woman who’s “secret” is her transness. You’re reeeeeeaaally stretching if that’s your theory.

[@TheUnsightlyRF]

Holy shit. I'm honestly gobsmacked by how Seth McFarlane puts the fault of the episode on the LGBTQ+ audience "not getting it." Like, dude, if you're trying to make a sympathetic portrayal of a marginalized community, only for said community to say that it was bad, that's not their fault for not getting your intention, it's YOUR fault for doing a bad job of it. And that comment about gay men being repulsed by the sight of a vagina... Wow, there's a lot to unpack about that assumption he's making... He's still not as bad as his former colleague, Butch Hartman, but really, Butch sets such a miserably low bar that it's meaningless.

[@PhoenixRising87]

Seth Macfarlane reminds me a lot of Bradley Whitford's character in GET OUT; someone who says all the "right" things for liberal brownie points but has never actually grown as a person. As GET OUT shows, the only cure for such a person is an antler to the throat. (for legal reasons, that's a joke)

[@RaineInChaos]

It's just an early version of that modern line that "denying 'sex is real' invalidates same-sex attraction" and it's gross

[@perrisavallon5170]

His assumption that it's normal for straight men to be horrified at seeing a penis under any circumstance is interesting to me because... Okay, so there's this throwaway joke in one episode where Brian says he thinks he's gay because he saw a penis on the internet and was fine with it. And because of that, as a kid, I legitimately didn't realize I was asexual because I thought attraction to men was the same thing as indifference towards male nudity. I was like "I don't flip out at the sight of a penis so that must mean I'm a straight girl" lmao. I thought everybody was just exaggerating their attraction/going along with what men wanted

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

Butch Hartman’s show was filled with drag and mpreg. Amazed that fundamentalist Christians like himself didn’t find it inappropriate

[@perrisavallon5170]

@@nuclearcatbaby1131 A lot of fundies haven't had to confront the actual reality of queer people until relatively recently. I'm sure as he was writing those jokes he was just thinking of them as jokes rather than the fact that there are real people who do drag or that trans men exist, so he didn't feel the need to rally against anyone. There's so much content out there made by bigots that's pretty queer purely because they're blind to the concept of queer-coding, it's hilarious.

[@thedreammweaver6274]

The fact he thinks gay men would react with disgust at a vagina, like does he not know there are gay men who are intimate with trans men who have vaginas. Not to mention simply not wanting to have sex with something doesn't equal disgust. That projection from Seth is interesting to say the least.

[@maryyy222-z4j]

The fact that I would have agreed with you on gay men liking vaginas if it were 2020 scares me.

[@joshuacoleman8000]

@@maryyy222-z4j Why?

[@Jonesy_Bonesy]

And as a trans man, I can understand if a gay man isn't attracted to my private parts, as long as he's respectful about it. I don't want to date someone who isn't attracted to me anyways

[@dee_is_tired]

Brian throwing up "joke" could've easily been kept and turned into "i slept with one of Quagmire's parents", that would've been infinitely funnier

[@ADudeWithAChannel]

You mean... She's... Related to *QUAGMIRE?* *BAAAAARF* That makes actual sense.

[@BackupChannel-nq6fg]

That’s par for the course with family guy. Could do a good joke but fucked it up entirely

[@domx7zero157]

It wouldn't have bee the same joke. Brian is disgusted that he slept with her. He's not disgusted by her identity.

[@kayleighlehrman9566]

Since Glen is canonically in his sixties, that would make Ida canonically in her eighties, so it could've also been kept as a "I slept with an old person" joke. Admittedly not great, but still better.

[@lmlimpoism]

@@ADudeWithAChannel that would've been funnier than what was actually there.

[@prageruwu69]

as a kid i saw the episode where meg is a trans guy in the future and the way they were portrayed fucked me up for years and pushed me further in the closet.

[@kaisaleh7268]

No this!!! I remember feeling great shame after that

[@prageruwu69]

@@NL-xu6qb ?

[@sporkzzz]

​@@NL-xu6qb can you do it yourself

[@Jordblitz]

Stay there

[@HyperfixationStation]

ignore that Jordan Blitz troll, I'm so sorry you've struggled with your identity, too. It's hard but it sounds like you've gotten to a place of understanding and that's great to hear

[@Arizonacan69]

Even as a child, watching this episode just felt wrong. I couldn’t understand why everyone was attacking Ida for trying to exist. I really wished to know her better as well, when she was on screen it was never really about her it was about others perception of her

[@waynedurning8717]

This is not a show for children.

[@healgoth]

@@waynedurning8717 I mean… adultswim hour wasn’t THAT late! Kids also can use YT which if it’s not exclusively locked to the censored version will have clips/episodes

[@bbbroodatscool]

@@waynedurning8717children can still watch it so boo hoo

[@nibli]

​@@waynedurning8717unfortunately the humour portrayed in the show appeals to children and adults with the maturity of children

[@Phantomphan613]

​@@waynedurning8717 considering the sophomoric humor, it could've fooled me

[@kittybutch]

All the people who were impressionable kids watching this when it came out are voters and parents and teachers and doctors now. It premiered 15+ years ago but the impact will be felt for decades to come. Every trans person I know has been harmed by someone who has enjoyed this show. And people will tell us we are overreacting when we critically analyze media!

[@WhatWouldLubitschDo]

One of the very scary things about young conservatives is that they don’t seem to know they’re conservative, similar to some of the Gen X crowd who internalized the regressive values promoted in the 1980s in their early teens

[@madmintentertainment6268]

yeah, this episode taught me to accept trans people because the transition is how they will find happiness. I know its more complicated than that NOW but back then as a kid thats all i needed to understand. People don't say you are overreacting because you are critically analysing media. But because you are only trusting one outcome of that analysis and insisting that thats what everyone else sees and is responding to, which is just not how art works. People are always going to bite back when you dont let them explain what they enjoyed about something but instead imply that they are horrible people for enjoying it.

[@kittybutch]

@@madmintentertainment6268 Sorry, when did I call people who enjoyed this show horrible people? I said people I know have been harmed by people who have enjoyed the show. That doesn't mean that everyone who enjoyed or enjoys the show commits harm. Your response seems defensive to something I never said. All I am saying is the ideas conveyed through media can impact reality. And when you have an episode of television that teaches people that it is disgusting to have sex with trans people and misrepresents the trans community, that is going to have ramifications in the real world for trans people. Just because you got something different from the episode doesn't mean it's not common for other people to have learned transphobia from watching it. I shouldn't have to point out that, during a trans genocide, there are actually some people who aren't transphobic. Like be fr. Pointing out the harm of media doesn't mean that I'm completely obscuring the positive or neutral outcomes of that media. Why are you more concerned about the feelings of people who like this show than the trans adults and children being harmed and even killed in part because of the message the show communicates?

[@RoguSpanish]

I remember finding this episode hilarious when it first aired when I was like 14 or so and it never had that effect on me, but what DID however was South Park, and nobody wants to talk about that for some reason. While I now see how fucked up this was and how badly they handled it, I just saw the examples of transphobia in the episode as people being ignorant assholes or exaggeration for comedic effect. But while this episode ends with Quagmire learning to love and accept Ida for who she is, South Park did a whole episode about how changing genders is like trying to change into a dolphin and it's stupid and disgusting and anyone who does it is a bad person. That rubbed off on me as a kid. Fortunately my opinion on South Park soured over the years as it got dumber and less funny by the episode in later seasons and I managed to avoid becoming a raging transphobe. But South Park is so much worse than Family Guy because they are so much more smug and arrogant in their messaging and people take them way more seriously, and nobody wants to criticize them because their fans flood their diapers with squealing rage if you consider Matt and Trey capable of being wrong about anything. Even when they have literally made entire episodes about how wrong they were about things in the past.

[@madmintentertainment6268]

@@kittybutch When did i say you said that? I said you implied it, which you definitely did. every trans person you know has also been harmed by someone who has watched tv or breathed air, the way you framed it was to say it was the shows fault that those people are assholes and it isnt. Personal responsibility is a thing. those kids and people were still gonna be harmed or killed regardless of it the show exists. People using can use the show as an excuse but you shouldn't let them have that scapegoat, instead you are giving it to them on a plate. The existence of art, good or bad should be defended, if you try to apply a completely negative reading as the one and only way of viewing that show (which is exactly what you are doing , dont waste anyones time by pretending otherwise see "harmed because of the message the show communicates" even though i didnt get that message at all ) Then you may as well be calling for censorship, and it doesn't matter how cool you think the reasoning is. That always leads to fascism. TLDR; We should hold people accountable for their actions, not blame the media that they consume when tons of other people have consumed it and NOT been dicks. Also, I doubt the trans people and kids you are defending want a fascist dystopia with no edgy art at all.

[@miss_creamer]

Watching this episode as a kid, long before I knew I was trans, absolutely informed me about the danger of even considering such an identity for myself. I know also that it affirmed the attitudes of those around me and made them more comfortable in their transphobia, despite an ongoing obliviousness to it. Definitely up there with the ending to Ace Ventura.

[@DeaDiabola]

Ace Ventura really undermines all the humor of Ace Venturaif you ask me

[@KaseyMasterpeace]

I feel this. Damn..

[@Nortarachanges]

@@DeaDiabola truth

[@kaylaisnothere4397]

Ace Ventura had probably the most egregious depiction of transphobia I've seen in any movie. Sometimes I fear that what happened in that scene could happen to me if I were in the wrong place at the wrong time

[@jesusrox4u]

Yeah, the ending to Ace Ventura’s pretty transphobic.

[@nigeladams8321]

Family guy, without exaggeration is one of the most soulless unfunny shows I've ever seen It's no surprise that there would be cruel

[@blackstar044]

Not to mention the characters became more unlikeable than ever before. And did anyone else notice how Lois became more of a psychopath in the later seasons?

[@nicoe.7717]

I agree that the show is losing its charm but I actually love Family Guy. I'm a big fan. However I think that the show might be silly for some people.

[@nigeladams8321]

@@ishaangovardhan9090 don't make fun of everyone in the same way though And it's not self mocking, if you can find a trans person on the family Guy writing team I would love to see it. This is the show reflecting the beliefs of the creator. As shown directly in the video

[@nigeladams8321]

@@ishaangovardhan9090 did you watch the video you're commenting on? The point is that Seth MacFarlane is on a surface level supportive, but he doesn't actually believe trans people are who they say they are. He said as much when asked about this Also there's a huge difference between someone making fun of another group and a member of that group making fun of the group. Like please explain to me how trans people are supposed to find being treated as disgusting and vile as funny

[@RaptorFromWeegee]

OMG, I hate to think what shows you DO think are funny. And, yes, I'm a huge family guy fan. And Simpsons, AmDad, SouPk, and R&M. All I think are hilarious!

[@maybeyourbaby6486]

I'm still not over the fact that a trans person slept with a dog... and we're supposed to think it's disgusting... because she's trans, but not because she slept with a dog 😭 These people will really say that gay marriage is a slippery slope to bestiality, then portray actual bestiality as completely normal compared to hooking up with a trans person -_- The projection is absurd.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

Not to defend this episode, but that's really more of a problem with Family Guy as a whole. For some reason, Brian has slept with multiple human women, despite being a dog, and it's never treated as the creepy thing that it is. The only exception is that one part of Road To The Multiverse where that one dog person calls Brian a freak for being attracted to his human, which we're clearly not meant to take seriously.

[@mr.x2567]

@@jeremyusreevu237Well, Brian is sapient, so it’s not as bad as sex with a normal dog. The transphobia is still bad though

[@jeremyusreevu237]

@@mr.x2567 True, but it's still very icky.

[@hcbs1986]

i'm imagining because it's an adult who can talk with a completely human mind and he can consent? idk though why tf would anything wanna have sex with a dog

[@donnamitsuki281]

This is what makes any Brian dating story weird as hell to me. How nobody minds he's a damn dog. Sure he's sentient and can consent but he's still a damn fucking dog. And they're AWARE he's a dog cause one episode is literally about deceiving a blind girl who hates dogs into believing he's NOT a dog. Like for how dark and straight up meanspirited Family Guy can get I'm surprised there hasn't been a joke (as far as I can recall) about this town being lowkey full of women into bestiality

[@BlazeNStar]

Wait. So there are actual places in the states where someone can sexually assault a trans person, then inflict other severe violence on them, maybe even kill them, and then just say "I was scared because they were lgbtq and I didn't know" and at least get a lesser sentence and maybe even be not guilty?

[@droc5427]

Late to the party but unfortunately yes

[@lonesavior]

Something that bugs me about this episode that wasn't mentioned was the joke about cutting Ida's penis off, since saying trans women cut their dicks off has become such central part of transphobia.

[@pickcollins9910]

You mean the joke that Ida explained right after being made about how the procedure actually works??

[@DellikkilleD]

how is a factually thing transphobic? you people make no sense.

[@aidanhugh2490]

​@@pickcollins9910I think people miss the point that the Griffins (especially Peter and Chris) are obtuse, and it's their ignorance that's on display here.

[@moviesquad73]

Let's be real the worst moment in any TV subject matter involves Brian Griffin

[@GumSkyloard]

It's either him or Quagmire, because let's be real. Quagmire hates Brian because Brian *is exactly like him.* They're both gross fuckers.

[@carybeweary7209]

No joke:I used to like Brian but this is the exact moment I started to loath him

[@Dave102693]

And I don’t think it’s funny that hypocrite Quagmire always beats up Brian

[@nicholasfarrell5981]

​@@flying-magpie and Quagmire's oftentimes *worse* than Brian, so he's got no leg to stand on in terms of being . . . not a dick, I guess.

[@DragonGoddess18]

​@@nicholasfarrell5981 Same

[@LezbeOswald]

i once heard a trans person defend these episodes by saying that we’re not supposed to relate to the family guy characters, we’re suppose to know they’re awful people, so we should recognize the way they react to/treat Ida is supposed to be wrong and we should know not to do it. and i suppose in a perfect world that would work, but not only do lots of family guy fans love the characters and often think they’re right, but they FUCKING LOVE brian, and the fact that he’s basically seth mcfarland’s self-insert reinforces the idea that his actions/responses are normal. and even still, there are ways to write terrible people being terrible to trans people while still humanizing and being empathetic towards the trans people, as you highlight in the It’s Always Sunny video. Ida is barely given ANY humanizing/empathetic moments, and so it doesn’t matter whether or not we’re supposed to relate to brian or peter or quagmire, because we aren’t even allowed to relate to Ida.

[@anniedong8751]

Brian used to be a voice of reason in the earliest seasons, but he's already been "a hypocritical liberal" for a long time before that episode so his action was not supposed to be taken as "normal". Ida was actually the most human, sympathetic and well-written character in that episode.

[@Nortarachanges]

@@anniedong8751 sympathetic to us. A lot of people seemed to have missed that part

[@EnanoPancracio]

​​@@anniedong8751 that episode is from season 8, the hypocritical liberal thing was not fully established then. And even Seth MacFarlane said "Look, Brian happens to be a heterosexual character, as I am. If I found out that I had slept with a transsexual, I might throw up in the same way that a gay guy looks at a vagina and goes, "Oh, my God, that's disgusting." It's just the way we're biologically wired." The point of the episode is not to show a flaw in Brian's reasoning. The writers think Brian's reaction is normal.

[@polocatfan]

so you're not allowing trans people to have opinions 😬

[@clartblart3266]

​@@polocatfan Not what's happening here, I see why one could think that, but they're just expressing disagreement with that person

[@shannon7620]

King of the Hill has an episode with a surprisingly similar premise to the start of this episode. Hank's friend Dale believes his estranged father, Bug, to be a very masculine, womanizing rodeo cowboy. Even after obvious to everyone else that Bug in fact works at a gay rodeo and has a boyfriend, Dale remains oblivious. But, once Bug does come out to his son, Dale is totally fine with it, and the butt of (most) of the jokes are the straight characters' discomfort. Obviously it's not entirely similar, dealing with a gay man rather than a trans woman (and, while still lacking, gay representation is miles ahead of trans representation), but the episode shows a level of empathy and care about Bug's character, his struggles, and his relationships. What I'm saying is that adult cartoons can depict a friend of the central dad protagonist coming to terms with his own father's queerness in a way that's funny without showing any disgust or hatred

[@PMelling2293]

A classic King of the Hill W

[@egg_bun_]

Wow! Idk how I'm only just just now hearing about Dale's dad being gay

[@phantomstarsx9343]

There's also an early episode where Peggy ends up friends (accidentally) with a bunch of drag queens. And while I think the show makes a mistake with the main friend (I can't tell if their drag or supposed to be trans?) That's also due to it being an old episode. It possibly makes the same mistake as that friends episode but the story is at least respectful to said friend.

[@anactualirllemon8790]

I also thought that Bug and his Filipino’s partner relationship in that episode was really sweet, it’s nice to see representation for gays who are in long-term monogamous relationships.

[@jamie1602]

@@phantomstarsx9343 Some are a little more on the trans side and talk about beauty standards which also helps Peggy better understand beauty and womanhood in general. Womanhood is not a tiny box that any woman can be confined to.

[@eringlasrud6484]

Funny how a "sex change" here involves changing pretty much everything about the character's body, including adding breasts and curves, except her masculine facial features. I guess the surgery package doesn't include FFS, because it's "funnier" that way.

[@timothymclean]

Well, if it included FFS, we wouldn't be able to tell that the character was "actually" a man. And we all know everyone can clock every trans person, right?

[@Vicarelia]

As a little kid I usually wasnt allowed to watch family guy, but occasionally I guess my mom would be too tired to care and would let me watch with her. This storyline was my first exposure to the idea of transing your gender. As a very curious child who loved learning new stuff about the world and was especially interested in scientific achievements (and ofc lacking knowledge about how science and medicine actually worked making it basically a form of magic) I found this topic very interesting and cool, the idea that a single surgery could completely change someones whole body like that. Ofc, thats not how it works, but as an 8-year-old with little access to the internet family guy was all I had to go on. I voiced my wonder at such a thing being possible, and while I cant remember what my mom said in response, I do remember it being awkward and uncomfortable, which I found strange. Ofc children aren't known for having strong attention spans, so I moved on quickly. Until I heard a story somewhere about a trans man carrying a pregnancy because his wife couldn't, which of course I also thought was the coolest shit. I mean, a man giving birth? To my knowledge that had never happened before (lol), and I think the article also implied it was groundbreaking somehow (maybe because of the techniques used?). Anyway, I later told my half-attentive mom about a man getting pregnant and how they'd been able to do it because he "used to be a woman and therefore still had a womb" (I cringe a bit in hindsight but iirc that was basically how the article phrased it) and my mom's eyes went a bit wide and she awkwardly said that ir didn't count which confused me greatly. Something I'd been taught from the beginning to believe was impossible had just happened, where was her sense of wonder? I tried to question further and the memory ends there, I was most likely "you'll understand when you're older"-ed or distracted somehow. Anyway the point here is that I've seen jerks push the idea that trans people are "uncanny valley" or that transphobia is somehow the "natural" response but my own experiences as a child directly contradict that. Its also strange to look back on this storyline because of how seeing a small fragment of it missing most of the transphobic elements knocked over the first domino that would lead to my own trans realization years later, as well as my mom's descent into active transphobia after I came out. I shudder to think how things might've turned out if I'd seen the whole thing, or had my first exposure to trans people be something like jerry springer.

[@DellikkilleD]

Holy shit the brainwashing has you whole heartedly captured. a trans person does no become the gender they are trying to emulate, at best they are cosplaying as it. at worst they are just disturbing everyone.

[@birdie8006]

I SAW THAT SAME STORY, but on a hotel TV when my parents were out for something one night! I remember the pregnant man really well because I was like...what, 11? And I was so surprised and confused but really interested in hearing the story. Then it made sense as the reporter explained that the man was trans. When I told my parents about the news story, my dad got all weird and angry about it. I didn't see what the problem was. Honestly, I still don't today, as a cis person. I'm glad that people like that trans man and his wife were given a voice to teach me to form my own opinions, pave my own way, and unwaveringly support my transgender friends when I met them in college. I'm so sorry to hear about your mom and hope you can find your own family through the community.

[@eleSDSU]

One never knows, my first trans exposure was Mauro Viale (imagine Argentinian Jerry Spinger on steroids, coke and crack at the same time) and I still vividly remember thinking "Why are all these people being so mean to that lady? Why is that idiot telling her she is ugly?! She is a vedette! She looks awesome" and miss Florencia de la Vega is still a sort of hero for me even though in later years she turned into a capitalist Liberal shill, she went on these shows and outclassed bigots with wit and poise while looking stunning.

[@sukriti7213]

I never watched Family Guy as a kid (thank god.) Occasionally I came across videos on my Mom's phone about trans people. Stuff like gender dysphoria or how it was like to transition. I never thought it was weird. It was foreign to me, but that made it extremely interesting. I thought it was so fascinating someone could experience a feeling of being born in the wrong body/as the wrong sex, or that trans people's brain sometimes resembled the brain of the gender they wanted to transition to more than their birth sex. Kids are untouched by some of the biases adults have, I think. They are less likely to immediately label a group of people are weirdos just because said group doesn't make complete sense to them.

[@SiliconBassist]

I had a similar moment when I was like 14 and there was a story on the radio about a mayor of some city transitioning. I thought it was cool, but I also had other emotions because I had (unknowingly) been dealing with gender dysphoria very intensely, and that story was an early exposure to the idea that such a thing could potentially be addressed. However my dad’s reaction at the time was one of disgust (as was typical at the time), and it (along with other similar experiences) scared me away from seeking more information for years. My having gone to a fundamentalist Baptist school for years also contributed to my tendency to bury my feelings about it. Later, there was the story about the pregnant trans man, and my interest was piqued again, and my mom seemed to react positively. I thought it was cool but I was still overwhelmed with emotions because of my own struggle with gender dysphoria as well as feelings of shame because of it.

[@QueenCloveroftheice]

If you can believe it, it gets worse. I tried watching a more recent episode of Family Guy a few months ago, and it featured Ida visiting Quagmire again and having dinner with him and the Griffins. Pretty much the entire family was saying the most vile and mean-spirited comments toward her the entire time. It made me feel physically ill to watch it because there were no redeeming scenes like in this episode. And no attempts to be funny, either. It was all just shock-value. It was very unpleasant

[@omegahaxors9-11]

"Come on bro just give it another chance, they've changed, bro, it's good now bro"

[@AintIastinker]

I haven’t seen a single episode of this show.. however I recently saw a short thing that was shared as a story by a close friend where a bartender tells Ida that she can’t watch porn there and she responds with “it’s okay I’m transgender” .. I logged off of Instagram for a while because of it

[@sreyarthakrishna6195]

(Content warning for all the Transphobia. Like, literally all of it) There's another recent episode where Peter "pretends to be Trans" because he uses the "Transgender bathroom" at a sports event (which is not something anyone on any side of the bathroom "debate" have ever argued for, where the fuck did they get that from), and gets a lot of attention for it. Then he likes all the privileges he gets because everyone thinks he's trans (which are what exactly?), so he lies and pretends he's trans, until the lies result in him being forced to get bottom surgery against his will (again, definitely a real thing). And then at the end, he meets Ida in a bar and she puts him down for pretending to be a trans woman for attention (ugh) and gives him a long speech about how much abuse and pain she suffered for being trans, how that pain is the price of being trans, and how dare Peter try to have the benefits of being trans without paying the price. And that's the moral that the episode ends on. Being trans is about suffering, and only trans people who have suffered a sufficient amount should be allowed to be trans. And the worst part is I have a feeling the creators walked away from that one thinking they had made a good, trans-friendly episode with a positive message.

[@natalie0505]

And Seth whats-his-face tried saying he meant it to be a "sympathetic portrayal" of a transwoman in the ep that Lily is talking about. Sure Seth, sure... Explain all the other transphobic episodes then. 🙄

[@Dave102693]

And Lily Orchard love this dumpster fire show

[@עידןזונשיין]

I think the problem you pointed out here is very much also the case in the OG "puking after realizing she's trans" movie, boys don't cry. That movie also thought it was being an ally, but ended up causing a horrible snowball effect, with some of the worst parodies imaginable (aka the reason i cant watch ace ventura anymore).

[@specificsoup]

You’re thinking of the crying game - boys don’t cry is about a trans man and doesn’t feature the puking trope though I feel like it has its issues in other ways perhaps

[@עידןזונשיין]

@E-soup oh damn, you're absolutely right. I always get their names mixed up, which is surprising since the Crying Game soundtrack has basically been burned into my skull after seeing so many horrifying parodies.

[@waynedurning8717]

You guys (trans people) do not understand what is is to be a man. For it to be repulsive to sleep with another man is not a bad instinct. It’s important because men have a bond that is non sexual that allows them to trust and depend on each other and if you screw with that you change the dynamic of the relationship and you lose an important bond. That’s something you guys (anyone other than straight men it seems) never seem to understand.

[@specificsoup]

​@@waynedurning8717 anyone of any gender can have a nonsexual bond with anyone else of any gender. you have some deep-seated issues you need to get past if you think that's not possible for a gay man, for example, to have a trusting bond with another man. you're doing the whole "men and women can't be friends" kind of thing acting like attraction to an ENTIRE GENDER ruins to possibility of friendship. I am bisexual, I'm attracted to people regardless of gender, and it does NOT mean I am attracted to literally everyone because that would not make sense. I can also respectfully maintain a friendship with someone that I might be attracted to, if they don't want a relationship/it doesn't develop into a sexual/romantic relationship. please, have more esteem for yourself and for other man and consider that that is possible for them!

[@waynedurning8717]

@@wanderingsoullustfulandwho1975 can you be more specific?

[@phantomstarsx9343]

This is completely random but I remember getting into an argument with someone about the whole "they should let people know that they're trans!" I told them if your partner isn't comfortable telling you their trans there's probably a reason and its most likely not even malicious. But then they brought up one night stands and.. minors. The conversation ended after I said, "if you don't know someone's age you probably shouldn't sleep with them. I don't know about you but that's like the first thing that usually gets mentioned when talking to someone, like its not hard to ask "how old are you anyway?" In polite conversation." .... it was not a fun conversation.

[@Mekose]

I really hate this idea that trans people must self identify at all times like there's something wrong with them, like they're a registered sex offender or something. I get that it might be a weird question to ask "do you have a penis or a vagina" but it shouldn't be a life threatening situation because men are so insecure. Imagine if you took someone's pants off and they had a small birth mark on their thigh and that sent you into a blind rage, you'd be told you were insane. At the end of the day, if you find something you don't like, you can just stop. It's never a situation of someone "tricking you". Women don't murder men if their dick is too small or feel like they got "tricked". They just say "hey, no offense, you're great but I'm not comfortable having sex with you." and they move on. Trans people are in this awful situation where if you meet someone you have two choices, you can tell them in a public setting and risk them making a huge scene and outing you in front of everyone or you can tell them in private and risk getting beaten to death; it's so fucked up. It really shows how indoctrinated men are in our society where outwardly they can be kind, funny, sympathetic etc; but as soon as they get into the bedroom they feel they're "promised" some idealized sexual experience they "earned" by showcasing all these positive traits. They're taught that being a decent human being is like earning currency they can use to pay for sex, like women are vending machines where nice words are the coins they put in to get sex out; and when that "transaction" doesn't go the way they think it would, they feel like they got "ripped off" or scammed. It seems like a really simple concept to me to just TALK to another human being.

[@notatallfunctional]

I think there is another thing to consider with the whole “let them know you’re trans” thing. If you share this with them and they’re disgusted or enraged, that sounds like you dodged a bullet. Who wants to accidentally sleep with a transphobe?

[@clartblart3266]

​@@notatallfunctional The thing is, if you tell them, they might...well, m*rder you, or beat you, so...yeah...

[@phantomstarsx9343]

​@@notatallfunctional at the end of the day, quite indeed

[@madmintentertainment6268]

IN THE CONTEXT OF ONE NIGHT STANDS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVENT FULLY TRANSITIONED YET... listen, if someone is sleeping with you they are consenting to do so under certain conditions. If you are withholding one of those conditions or worse lying about it then you are sleeping with them without their consent. Its just that simple. Doesn't matter if its malicious or not. And no, in a lot of cultures its rude to ask someone their age, so thats a bs comeback. Just let people know what they are getting into, you being ashamed of your own gender identity shouldn't give you free range to violate someone's consent. And I know plenty of trans people that agree with that.

[@angelad230]

I don't understand how Family Guy can make a trans character as awesome and three dimensional as Ida, who says lines that resonate with so many people and would be amazing representation in any other show, and yet be so transphobic towards her. It just doesn't make sense.

[@aidanhugh2490]

I think Ida is supposed to be all those things you said, it's just that newer episodes of Family Guy often lean a little too heavily into undercutting the sweet moments with shock humour. Shows change in tone as they go on, and Family Guy was in a transitional phase (no pun intended) when this came out(also not a pun).

[@byron2FZ]

I cant help but feel there could have been an actuall *somewhat* funny subversion in the episode if, after all the other characters being bigots and acting disgusted by Ida, Brians real issue was that he slept with a relative of Quagmire, and he had no problem with her being trans. I feel like that would play better into the characters as well as remove one of the most nasty bits.

[@offbranddorito9668]

You see, that actually would have been hilarious. Which is why the writers couldn’t do it.

[@amoureux6502]

That scene where Peter and Lois couldn't understand that Ida was trans and not gay could have also been pretty funny if the episode had been laid out with a better premise, considering that's an actual line of thought many cis people have expressed

[@offbranddorito9668]

@@amoureux6502 it’s funny that family guy’s offensive nature, which is what the humor is credited to, actually takes away from any sort of comedy. Seth macfarlane’s disgusting view of trans people gets in his way as a comedian. The episode would literally have been so much funnier if it was a subversion.

[@omegahaxors9-11]

"Guys give Family Guy a chance, they've changed" Family Guy:

[@RoguSpanish]

This episode was from 13 years ago though. And more recently, they had an episode where Brian started dating Ida, the same guy who puked for like a full minute when he found out she was trans in this episode, later decided he didn't care anymore. Not saying it's great or makes up for everything but it's objectively a change. Meanwhile South Park makes Family Guy look like straight up trans activists in comparison but nobody wants to criticize them.

[@DrSamwpepper]

Episode is 4 years older than your account.

[@pickcollins9910]

The episode is older than you lmfao

[@tiolloyd9555]

​@@RoguSpanishthe difference is that South Park never tried to suddenly deliver serious episodes about important topics (hello Quagmire saying abused women aren't real women) and that EVERYONE is at the butt of the joke. They make fun of trans people on a episode and then make the next episode about how stupid MAGA is and then a episode about Star Wars. That's the point of South Park, not to deliver actual morals to people, it's to make fun of everyone.

[@nolanrex00]

My worst experience with transmedia was with Ace Ventura Pet Detective. I never watched it until a boy in college recommended it to me. I had a huge crush on him for two years, I hadn't transitioned, and I didn't know his sexuality so I never talked to him about my transness or flirted with him. I enjoyed being friends with him and I really valued his opinions. He told me it was still his favorite movie of all time and I would love it. I didn't get around to watching it till after I graduated and I suddenly really missed him. I tried watching it and was so heartbroken to see the ending when the trans woman was outed and everyone was disgusted. I never contacted him after college. It really changed the way I look at people, even my friends. It taught me that even when people share my values and interest and say they care about me that I should still be careful to fully trust them. I'm still cautious to this day of who I flirt with.

[@kenhollis6197]

I think if I were trans, I wouldn't want to compare myself to the villain of that movie. I don't think of Ray/Lois as a trans woman, but a crazy man who stole someone's identity. He had been in a mental institution when he decided to do that. That's not what being trans is about, is it?

[@noritochip_97]

@@kenhollis6197 Trans people aren't the ones comparing those types of characters to trans people... it's cis people that do it. That's where the issue lies.

[@sekaiyoru01]

​@@noritochip_97 > cis You mean normal people?

[@D_YellowMadness]

@@sekaiyoru01 They never said cis people aren't normal. No one was attacking you.

[@kenhollis6197]

@@noritochip_97 That was kind of my point.

[@sreyarthakrishna6195]

For an interesting example of a show doing it right with a very similar premise, the Brazilian TV show "O Negocio" has an arc in the later seasons where one of the min characters is getting married and her fiance invites his mother who he hasn't seen in a while. Only to find that his mother has recently come out as a trans man. Now the son reacts poorly to the revelation, but his fiancee has no problem with the mother at all, treats him very well and the two get along very well, even as the son proceeds to ignore his very existence. But though the show depicts the mother's pain at the rejection, it also very clearly conveys that the problem is entirely with the son and his Transphobia. Eventually, his fiancee confronts him and calls him out on the way he's treated his mother and his bigotry and he goes on to apologise to his mother and admits the fault was all with him. There's even a very sweet line in the scene where he says "I'm an asshole. I guess I learned that from my father. But I suppose the silver lining is, I have another positive male role model in my life." Made me tear up a little bit.

[@anactualirllemon8790]

The Brazilian cartoon Fudencio e Seus Amigos (sometimes called “the Brazilian South Park) also had a reoccurring trans character who isn’t portrayed as the butt of a joke, and the main male protagonist has a crush on her and it isn’t treated as something weird or taboo.

[@christopherb501]

Are these shows worth watching in general, or is it only worth tracking down these particular episodes?

[@anactualirllemon8790]

@@christopherb501 Fudencio is a fun show tbh- I really like the early 2000s animation style similar to Clone High and Total Drama Island

[@dalellll]

The way that sex change was portrayed as "bottom surgery" in all pop culture for most of my life is a legitimate barrier. i knew i didnt want that, i thought that was what it was, i never connected what i am to the trans community and never learned anything about any of the steps except for bottom surgery. Boom. Life gone. Literally discovered how HRT actually works last year. I've cried so much thinking about it. Now I'm old.

[@andrewkoster6506]

I'm sorry to hear that. You're still posting, and the world is gayer than ever, so there's still something you can do to assert your identity. I don't know what it is exactly, but gender is about more than just bottom surgeries OR hormones

[@jahipalmer8782]

So, I remember watching this episode and laughing quite hardily at how long Brian vomited. I never considered who was harmed by these "jokes" or what the episode was doing with its messaging. As someone who thought I was an ally, I realize I have a lot to learn.

[@normanbuchwald]

It was not forgivable during the time of "The Crying Game" (1992) and even less forgivable in the 21st century.

[@iolarnicholl2556]

Reflecting on past behaviours like this is already a great first step in learning, keep at it! :)

[@DellikkilleD]

noone was 'harmed' at best they were made to feel uncomfortable. feeling bad isnt harm lmao.

[@Bri-nc8yp]

@@DellikkilleD everything is harmful to these people. They are constantly moving the goal post so everyone around them is always apologizing and having to “re-learn” everything. Everything is to be taken seriously and everything is offensive to these people. They are constantly crying and finding victimhood in everything. I seriously don’t know how these people get through their day their day is focused on getting online to find something to be offended about. Thank God I don’t know people like this IRL.

[@abbystarheart1]

What gets me is there's a way to have Brian repulsed and vomit, without it being transphobic, if the writers really had their eyes set on writing that in: Brian doesn't care she's trans, he's disgusted cause she's related to quagmire. That feels like such an obvious option

[@Rmlohner]

The really weird thing is that MacFarlane's show The Orville features a long-term story arc about a trans character across its three seasons which is respectful, moving, and always extremely well-written. It boggles the mind that it could come from the same guy.

[@Ancusohm]

I hear that a lot, and admittedly I only saw the first episode, but I didn't think that was handled that well.

[@thebasedgodmax1163]

i mean this episode is from 13 years ago. plenty of time to learn from your mistakes

[@gaysara]

Also there are, presumably, other writers, different writers, to help

[@jac_238]

Keep in mind that Seth doesn’t write for Family Guy, he really only voices his characters. He’s more directly involved with The Orville

[@xwormbonesx]

Seriously, the contrast between family guy and the Orville is SO confusing

[@habeashumor9814]

I don't think I've seen this one. I still remember the episode a few years ago that had a scene in which a woman is watching porn on her phone in a bar, and the bartender says "You can't watch that here." So the woman says "It's ok, I'm trans," and the bartender says "Oh! No worries! Do whatever you want." I saw that when it aired, and I winced so hard. I posted on FB something like "Damn! Family Guy is being transphobic!" Immediately, my trans friends were like, "Yeah, what else is new with MacFarlane?" It was probably the last time I watched FG. I wasn't a regular watcher by that point anyway.

[@mercedeswalt6621]

Wow, I just saw that clip last night! The woman herself was Ida. That pissed me off so much! And you know what? That joke could have been funny if it was preceded by all the human rights violations that trans people had to endure, and then the punch line was, “but hey, we’ll let you watch porn at the bar!”

[@hopelessgeek3776]

This was an excellent video, thank you so much. There are quite a few TV shows with this horrible trope; NCIS' episode "Dead Man Talking" comes to mind; nothing as bad as this episode, though. Makes me glad I never got into this show. The trope of "transperson the deceiver" is particularly heinous because it makes you feel that no matter what, trans people cannot behave in a way that would be acceptable to cis people: if you look like a cis person, you are deceiving cis people; if you don't look conforming to the gender you identify with, you play dress-up. It's a lose-lose, and it frustrates me to no end.

[@SongbirdAlom]

you know, when this episode aired, this was the point where I turned off the tv and said, "done." I had long been disenchanted with the humor that was already feeling stale and punch-down'y. But this episode is so vile. I'm so sorry this shit exists, and I want things to get better. anyway, thank you for all you do. I love your videos.

[@Dradeeus]

Since Jerry Springer died pretty recently, some people have pointed out how influential his show was in pushing the idea that your significant other not identifying with the gender they were assigned is good and dramatic enough to be the entire crux of several episodes. Something EVERYONE can agree is the worst, funny, embarrassing thing that can happen to the guests.

[@dharte6344]

Seths defence for his transphobia, was to paint gay men as misogynists, which is homophobic. 🤦

[@teddybaker4759]

so not being attracted to women is misogynistic now?

[@GabrielleHolgate-oh1jk]

@@teddybaker4759 No, this commenter was trying to say that such an allegation is terrible.

[@rebeccakoenig9098]

tangentially related but it still burns me that Apu from the simpsons gets a documentary for being problematic but the anti-Semitic caricature of mort goldman has gone completely unremarked upon. I know family guy doesn't have quite the massive cultural reach that the simpsons does, but even cartman from southpark has been called out for normalizing that sort of humor, but never a peep about mort.

[@MrZer093]

Did Seth McFarlane, a heterosexual male (who might I add is openly a huge fan of musicals so it’s odd how the show portrays similar men), really implicitly claim he’s smarter than most gay people when he said that he was disappointed how most gay people didn’t see how this episode was “positive representation” and then add in that he would be disgusted to sleep with a trans woman? I really hope he’s gained some perspective since then. He honestly might have since this era was peak “I can do no wrong” for him as he had multiple shows with millions of viewers each at the time. Things have certainly changed since then.

[@rileysjonger4192]

I believe he's changed since then. Maybe not perfect but I think he's smartened up. His show The Orville had decent trans representation, and there were some more modern Family Guy episodes with Ida that, while not perfect, seemed to have taken some criticisms from her first debut episode, like when Ida and Brian patched things up and when Ida criticized Peter for exploiting transness. I've followed his Twitter and IIRC, he's defended LGBTQ+ people and is actively commenting on social issues.

[@teddybaker4759]

Family Guy is in bad taste by design, but Seth MacFarlane has always been a supporter of LGBT issues the thing to remember is his work has "I only roast the ones I love" energy, so the more insulting something seems the more it's intention *is* positive (the exceptions to this would be people or groups that he publicly *states* he doesn't like such as conservative politicians) just look at how hard the show rails Brian himself (Seth's avatar) I doubt he hates himself as much as the show seems to hate Brian. The whole show has always felt like a "mock with love" type of vibe as a bisexual I'd actually hate to see Family Guy having overly positive bi representation because I'd feel like he was treating us with baby gloves. Like no, roast us like u roast everyone else

[@KLBobbin]

I had never really watched Family Guy but I remember seeing this scene when an old housemate was watching it and being genuinely shocked at it, but even more shocked that my housemate was watching such a transphobic scene without any comment or issue. It’s an impression that’s stuck to me to this day and why when people tell me that Family Guy is their favourite show I’m always vaguely suspicious. Thank you for making this video and putting this into words. 💙

[@averyplaysguitar]

family guy being someone's favourite show should be a red flag because family guy isn't funny

[@D_YellowMadness]

In fairness, I found the episode funny despite having some problems with the writing & suspicions about the writers & despite some parts being unfunny cringe in general so your roommate wasn't necessarily a bigot just because they enjoyed the episode. I used to enjoy a lot of episodes of that show despite most of them having at least one moment or running aspect that made me think the writers were scumbags.

[@eleSDSU]

​@@D_YellowMadnessor more likely both you and the roommate are bigots, like you might not be transphobic but apparently you do enjoy some of the other types of bigotry constantly used for humor in the show. Some introspection might be in order.

[@lukebytes5366]

​@@eleSDSUfinding something like that funny doesn't equate to agreement, it just means you have they have a terrible sense of humor. Maybe you should do some introspection...

[@ShiniRyuga]

​@@eleSDSUoh get over it. It's a cartoon that makes fun of literally anyone and everything. Stop acting like you're singled out by it, Its nothing but satire and exaggeration. if you cant laugh at yourself that's your problem and nobody elses. And people can laugh at anything they want without being labeled bigots or transphobes.

[@Rilesjean]

I'll never forget the time in college when a friend tried so hard to convince me that family guy was a fine show because "there's a trans woman who isn't even the butt of the joke" and like, at the time I didn't believe them anyway but uh... if this is the episode/trans woman they were referring to? Yikes

[@GloomyFish]

God I always hated this episode. I never understood the whole "ew I slept with a trans woman that's gross I'm gonna be sick" trope. I never got what was so disgusting about it. and if anything, Ida should be the one throwing up because she slept with a literal dog.

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

I mean if they have a higher chance of being HIV positive that’s really the only think I can think of that might be gross. But on the other hand you don’t have to worry about them having a kid and nailing you for child support.

[@Iggy253]

Seth Macfarlane when someone screws a dog:👍🏻 Seth Macfarlane when someone screws with a trans woman:🤮

[@D_YellowMadness]

It's because Brian is straight & Ida (while not drunk) lied to him about it while he (an alcoholic) was clearly very drunk. The fact that that happened at all in an episode masquerading as pro trans is a problem but Brian's reaction is totally understandable. I'm pan & I'd still react that way.

[@chalkyi8681]

@@D_YellowMadness having Ida lie to him in itself is problematic as having her engage in deception further plays into the perception of trans people as inherently deceptive and trying to deceive straight and cis gender people. it's a poor choice when she is supposedly intended to be 'good' representation

[@GloomyFish]

@@D_YellowMadness Ida didn't lie to Brian though. Brian is straight and Ida is a woman. she's had bottom surgery too so i don't get the issue also Brian is still a dog.

[@terpsidance.]

This right after Quagmire, the serial rapist, acted like he was somehow better than Brian, really made me finally become completely repulsed by this show. I wish I had gotten to that point sooner because the shit with the family abusing Meg as a joke was nauseating.

[@WilliamBrowning]

45yo, cis/het. Here to learn. Thanks for teaching. 🏳️‍⚧ SOLIDARITY 🏳️‍⚧

[@alexarviso6836]

@North Georgia Infantry95 such blashphemy to judge other, only god judges.

[@carouselqueer]

@North Georgia Infantry95 cope

[@AnEarthPerson]

W

[@captainkarper]

I remember clear as day sitting on the floor of my friends house as a 4th grader watching this episode for the first time. It was my first exposure to a transfem that I'd been cognizant of. Immediately I understood both that I wanted to transition like her, and that the world would consider me sub-human for it. ~12 years later and the long term damage of that has proved irreparable. Representation matters.

[@Julia33066]

This episode is terrible but it’s always a joy to watch your videos

[@auroramcbride1688]

I remember when I first saw this episode I straight up cried and I had no idea why it affected me so much. I was in major denial about my identity until I was 29 so it really didn't click until this video lol.

[@aroramccracken2429]

I’m also trans and have the same name as you so silly

[@lunamoona4920]

I will never forgive Seth McFarland for the step by step tutorial on teen suicide played as a joke in Family guy.

[@cyansky8178]

I once had a coworker who immediately referenced this episode when I came out to him as trans. No joke. He then said his "little brother is also like that", even though when I further asked him about her he said she's a girl. Episodes like this do so much fucking damage, way more then we could ever realize. That dude thought him bringing up that he loves watching Family Guy and knew about trans people just because he saw this episode is mind boggling to me.

[@supaskiltz9877]

TW// Transphobia/Suicide This episode was my first ever knowledge of trans people existing when I first saw it in 2017, I know it sounds crazy to say I genuinely didn’t know trans people were a thing until 2017. I remember in 2017 I was defending this episode with my life saying how “it’s just a joke” back when I was 17 years old. It’s crazy to look back at how I used to be and how at that moment in my life I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing by defending a fucking cartoon over real people. In early 2018 I actually dated a trans girl online, but for a while I didn’t know she was Trans and when she told me at the time I did feel deceived, I felt that was unfair for her to hide it from me. I’m so glad she was an amazing person and was able to explain all of this to me because she could tell it wasn’t that I hated her or trans people but because I didn’t understand (probably because I told her I learnt about this from a Family Guy episode). I was able to understand Trans people better and learn that it wasn’t a bad thing. I was a super edgy kid unfortunately (and young adult I was a genuinely bad person until 2019) so I really do thank her for explaining Trans people to me even though I was asking super insensitive questions because I was so confused at the time. We broke up about 3 months later in 2018 due to unrelated circumstances but I remember specifically calling her “it” on Facebook, it wasn’t me insulting her for being Trans I genuinely saw her as just a women and forgot she was trans and I was calling both my ex girlfriends “it” (one isn’t trans) at the time. I remember she approached me and asked why I was being transphobic to her and I just said I’m really sorry. I never gave her the real context because in her eyes it was transphobic and to be completely honest there’s nothing to excuse the fact that I was being extremely fucking immature. Again she was super nice and accepted my apology which was more then I deserved but we never really talked again after that. I found out earlier this year that she is now dead. I got told shortly after it happened from her best friend who is a mutual friend to me as well. She was a closeted Trans person and she only told few people, until this year where she came out as trans publicly and was found dead only 2 weeks later, she killed herself. I still can’t believe it, such a genuinely nice and amazing person took their own life because of the harassment they faced. She was an online friend to us and when her family live streamed the funeral to her friends there were still random people harassing her in the comments section saying “not a real woman” like holy shit she’s already dead you contributed to her killing herself what more do you want fucking want. I knew the harassment towards trans people was bad but I didn’t know it was this fucking bad, it’s so sad and genuinely disgusting to see people act this way and think they are doing a good service. I can’t believe there was a time in my life where I thought acting like this was okay, even if I never harassed anyway since my ex was the first Trans person I met it’s still insane to think that I once was like that all because of a fucking family guy episode. I’ve tried so hard to explain to people what being trans is and to help people understand and I get met with “I’m being brainwashed”. It’s actually fucking insane. I’ve got a super close friend to me who is going through bad body dysmorphia and have attempted to take their own life, they are pretty certain they are trans but they aren’t sure yet. I can’t let anymore LGBTQIA+ people get hurt. I know it’s impossible to help every LGBT person ever but I’ll always do my best to show my support wherever I can and help people where I’m able. If somehow any LBGT people read this please take care of yourselves, you will face difficult times but there will always be people who support you even if you haven’t found them yet, there are people who genuinely care about you and want the best for you. You deserve to have all the same rights as everyone else and I hope one day it will come. Please be careful.

[@JC42023]

I stopped watching Family Guy when I was around 16. And every time I found myself thinking "maybe I was too hard on it and should give it another chance", I'm reminded of something like this

[@MelodyTCG]

I swear if I see one "well that's the point it's family guy" in the comments

[@andrewkoster6506]

"it's SUPPOSED to be angry and unfunny random garbage, that's the JOKE!"

[@domx7zero157]

It's the point of Family Guy, they make jokes about LITERALLY everyone and everything. If they CAN'T make jokes about a certain group of people, that's called a privilege.

[@kinyutaka]

I would point out that while the erection joke is weird because it's Quagmire hugging his father, it is Quagmire's perverted nature affirming Ida's identity. It's still very fucked up.

[@KarolOfGutovo]

19:40 I recall a meme that went like "You think I dress like a girl to trick you? If I wanted to do that I'd have applied to work in Fox News."

[@ArielKalati]

I have never seen Family Guy and I was incredibly surprised when you said that the creators thought of themselves as trans allies. I guess it shows that as a cis person, I still have a lot to learn about the intricacies of transphobia. I am constantly shocked and horrified by the levels to which some cis people are transphobic. I'm thinking of how yesterday, my sister (who's straight) was watching a Queer Eye episode with me about a lesbian who got disowned by her parents, and she was going on and on about how she didn't understand the logic behind disowning your kid for being gay, and I eventually just gave up on trying to explain to her that there is no logic behind it. There's no logic behind any form of hatred. I feel like this episode is proof because besides that one good moment you described between the parent and the kid, it was complete hateful nonsense. I'm also currently reading James Baldwin's "The Price of the Ticket" in which he discusses the way a lot of pro-segregation white people clung to their notions of race. People find the most illogical ways to hate others and just cling to it so hard, when it would be so easy and so peaceful to just see people who are different as human beings... But just because I understand the easiness of this, doesn't mean that other cis people do, and I need to remember that. The level of cognitive dissonance to make that episode and claim it's good trans representation is the kind of mindset of, apparently, a fuckton of people, regardless of how absolutely ridiculous and awful it is. Anyway don't give this video a million views because I hope to God that Lily does not have to sit through South Park oh my god why would you play with fire like that...

[@clartblart3266]

Yeah...like I'd love for her to get all those views, but I really don't want her to have to sit through that, especially against her will! Anyway, loved seeing your perspective here

[@gatochick14]

Not to mention the Family Guy team doubling down on Ida's next appearance in the Thanksgiving episode with showing Quagmire as even more disgusted by his father and the one moment of attention on Ida is Stewie quipping "He threw up when he found out you were a monster."

[@llGemini19]

"So now you're happy and I'm miserable." I hate this so much. Trans people don't choose to be trans, we choose to do something about it. If a trans person transitioning and living their truth makes you miserable, maybe do some self reflection and get over yourself. It's not about you, it's about the trans person. You're choosing to be miserable because you think them being trans is somehow a betrayal on you. Again, get over yourself.

[@aidanhugh2490]

Ok but Quagmire was throwing a tantrum here, this was the climax of his arc before he learned to accept his mom. It doesn't excuse the last few scenes, but I don't think having Quagmire of all people say something problematic in the context of the episode is a ground for dismissal.

[@sungexpression9093]

Great video! It’s so sad that Seth thought that Brian getting sick over sleeping with Ida was appropriate.

[@notdog1996]

I'm a trans guy. I remember seeing this episode as a teen and being angry and disgusted at the time. I didn't even realize I was trans yet, but even then, I know they were talking about "people like me", in a way.

[@alicegaiba]

I used to like this show when I was in middle school. I used to think the jokes where on the protagonists and their bigotry, but now I'm seeing it on a different light. Thank you for your videos, they're eye-opening ❤

[@andrewkoster6506]

it's also easier to be entertained by random incoherent bullshit when you're a child. After a few years on this planet, pure randomness doesn't seem as funny anymore and you start to demand more well-crafted jokes

[@teddybaker4759]

it's blatantly obvious that hte joke is on the protagonist u were right

[@Robert___98]

As well put together as this video is, it’s left out what I find the most insulting of the barf scene, in which when Brian first finds out about the transitioning, he bursts out laughing with Stewie at Quagmire’s expense and then they both have this exuded arrogance looking down on families having to go through that as though it’s some horrific thing, and it’s not really played off as a joke either since Brian is meant to represent the morale mouthpiece of the show.

[@IronDeficientx]

The worst part about family guy is that it appeals heavily to kids aged 9-13 because it has lots of toilet humor and silly jokes that children find funny and it's a little bit adult which makes them feel cool for watching it. I loved watching the show when I was those ages, I never saw this transgender rep in the show but it makes me wonder how many impressionable teens saw this as a kid and it changed how they treated transgender people. My parents hated family guy and said it was trash so it does make me wonder how many sane adults actually watched it and how much of their show was just intentionally aimed at a younger audience.

[@charmophron6909]

the horrible pit in my stomach when seeing this episode title and knowing exactly what would be discussed... this is a rough one, but thank you for discussing it lily! your work here feels like pulling out splinters that have needed to be removed for years.

[@spicewitch9115]

Another episode of TV that did a similar thing is how South Park treats trans people. I would love to see you tackle south park. I also saw both these pre transition and it definitely helped in instilling some of that fear I had of being seen as trans publicaly

[@guywithpc7069]

It's amazing how many people really watched Family Guy, it wasn't only unfunny as hell, but it was boring as shit to look at, and just plain mean spirited in a completely unselfaware way. It was so popular that it warped all of adult animation for the worse and idk if it ever even recovered cause kids animation got better again in the meantime. I'd rather watch fun, lighthearted content that actually makes use of the medium of animation for more than just making characters vomit for half a minute straight. Thanks for the video

[@mementojc9260]

This shit episode is from modern family guy episode tho

[@andrewkoster6506]

@@mementojc9260 that makes it even worse

[@abonnybunny6647]

The Simpsons has been bad about it too on several occasions. Especially when most of them get drawn with muscles, Adam's apples that other characters don't have or equating trans women with gay men... They mention even Helen Lovejoy to be trans as a "haha (male character) slept with a man" joke and that's still somehow one of the closest to a positive representation since she at least wasn't drawn as a giant hulking guy with super defined cheeks but wearing a dress. :/

[@PipeGuy64Bit]

I remember finding Seth's "stupid homosexuals" interview quote and it lived rent free in my head for so long

[@Dragons4Dummies]

This episode IS the OBJECTIVE source of my internalized transphobia from when I was younger. Like literally talking with my therapist we had the same conclusion. Her: Why do you think people would be disgusted with you Me: I guess I saw it on TV when I was younger Her: are there any specific scenes that come to mind? Me: .... Oh god.

[@beequeen2556]

you’ll probably never see this, but I love your insight! Would be so cool to see you’re options on the queer rep in other adult comedy animations (South Park, American Dad, Boondocks, etc.)

[@matti.8465]

What's so dumb about this episode is that they were clearly trying to tell a trans positive story, Ida as a character is mostly portrayed well and in a sympathetic manner. But everything around that is just done SO badly, especially the comedy. It feels like the whole episode was conceived just so they could have the "Brian slept with Quagmire's dad" joke

[@andrewkoster6506]

it almost feels like they were making an honest effort to write a positive story about a trans person, but they just failed at it because they have so much internalized bigotry that they're not even aware of and it comes out in their writing

[@crazyinsane500]

The problem with shows like Family Guy is that they use the excuse of comedy as a shield. It's the jester defense: What do you think of the king who takes offense at his own jester? But when the jester isn't funny, what are you left with?

[@Spyders-y2g]

even years before i knew I was a woman, I always kinda liked Ida. even as a bit of an awful kid, I thought the characters were being far too mean to her.

[@laurenalexander4438]

Yeah, I don't get the whole "Trans woman = hyper gay man" thing. I'm a lesbian. And I don't consider myself all that feminine overall. I even started incorporating men's clothes into my wardrobe again. Nothing like a baggy Hawaiian shirt and some baggy cargo shorts. 🥰 Like seriously, I didn't transition to be girly. Still a gamer, still listen to punk and metal. Still like cheap beer. Still like action movies. If anything, I'm more comfortable with my masculine side now more than ever. Since puberty, pople were convinced I was gay. I told them I wasn't, but they never listened. Even people who thought they were being helpful were like "You don't even know you're gay, do you?". This lead me to questioning myself, particularly since trans lesbians weren't really talked about. Tried dating a guy, and while he was cool, no, that's not for me. I found out quickly that I wasn't a gay guy, which lead me to reevaluating the gender stuff I'd been dealing with, and coming out as trans. Within the first 8 months, I realized I was a lesbian. I finally felt attraction. I finally understood why guys were so obsessed with women. My dysphoria was so bad before I came out, that I literally felt no attraction.

[@sunrise.system]

I've had genuinely the exact same experience, only the other way around. i was always incredibly uncomfortable with anything perceived as 'feminine', up to and including being attracted to men, to the point where i didn't even consider the idea that i might like men until i realized i was trans. It's only now that I've stopped being so averse to femininity as a concept and to my own orientation. Plus you're totally right about Hawaiian shirts and cargo shorts.

[@Dave102693]

It has to do how people see straight trans women or trans women who date/sleeps with men.

[@silvercandra4275]

As a gay trans guy, that's a mood. People kept thinking I was just a tomboy and into girls... yeah, no, and now that I've figured that out, I'm more comfortable just doing my think, regardless of wether it's percieved as masculine or feminine.

[@silvercandra4275]

@@nessandlucas5406 Yeah, I know. I've got the good old "You're just a self hating girl" and "You're just straight with extra steps" lines quite a few times. It just gets stupider the more people say it, especially, because most of them probably look less masc than I do.

[@crptpyr]

in my experience, people find it actually confusing when you're both trans and gay because they perceive trans women as hyper gay men and trans men as hyper lesbians like it's a pokemon evolution or smth

[@Starving_Phoenix]

I wrote two papers on this episode in undergrad. One for a feminist class and one for a queer studies class. It was hard to remain professional in my language in the essays because this bullshit makes me so mad.

[@thecatlurking]

Seth MacFarlane: I can normalize a dog sleeping with human women, but I draw the line at normalizing TRANS women. That's just gross.

[@coopeachu]

What's crazy is this episode was integral in making me realize that being trans was a thing someone could even do. Watching it at like, 15 years old being like "hey I could do that" and now here I am

[@riccardomazzaro1901]

I know that it might be pretty distant from what you usually cover, but I would love to hear your take on Satoshi Kon's "Tokyo's Godfathers".

[@magentavirus6307]

Bisexual 17 year old here, yeah this episode was on the other day, and me and my family watched it, and I uncomfortably pretended to enjoy it, but I almost started crying because it just made me think about the fact that trans people have to deal with this bullshit on a regular occassion. My family's not homophobic or biphobic as far as I know, but they are hella transphobic, and even though i'm cis, it makes me incredibly uncomfortable when I hear those transphobic jokes, both on television and from family members. Things like this keep me from coming out, because even though i'm not trans, i'm definitely bisexual, and can be quite "effeminate" at times, and I don't know how they'd react to even that. It just makes me wonder if they'd still love me if I was trans. Only my mother knows i'm bi, and she supports me, bless her soul. Any trans people possibly reading this, you are loved, you are valid, and you deserve respect. Thank you for this video, Lily. Well done.

[@kekistani_meme_farmer7242]

🐌

[@uberwench_]

As a pre-teen trans girl, the way this episode fucked me up for years is unreal

[@MsAnonymousFangirl]

I grew up queer in Appalachia and I wasn't allowed to watch anything in the way of TV or movies that my dad considered gay. Because my family valued humor more than anything, i became allowed to watch family guy at age 14. Around that time, they were making "stewie is gay" jokes left and right. So starved for representation, I saw him as gay. He was a protagonist in a lot of story lines, and he became really important to me. I got invested in the show and I really didn't mind the gay jokes. I actually kind of thought of it as having tough skin, being okay with jokes about yourself and your community seemed admirable to me. I watched this show for years and I loved it. When this episode came out, i felt troubled but I was so young, i still just brushed it off as a maybe in bad taste joke but thought it wasnt really that serious. I'm ashamed to admit i just kept watching. Over the years, I grew out of the show for unrelated reasons. The details of the show were only remembered as "they made some jokes i thought were in bad taste". After a few more years, Iwanted to watch it for nostalgia. In the meantime, I had fallen in love with my beautiful trans wife (gf at rhe time of the rewatch and we weren't living together) and upon seeing this episode I could not believe my eyes. I cried my eyes out just imagining what my wife would have seen if she had watched that and seen herself represented that way. I suddenly could no longer appreciate the show, at all. I honestly feel sick and heartbroken when I even try to remember how I felt when I thought the show was funny and remembered it fondly, if vaguely. I just hate this so much. That this kind of thing was normalized for so many lovely, wonderful girls just like her. 💔 In any case, I don't think that Seth MacFarlane could do anything to get me to watch anything he's involved in again.

[@diatere2316]

I think it's really interesting to note with the shifting cultures, that EVEN FAMILY GUY ITSELF did trans representation better PRIOR to this episode. In the season 4 episode "Stu and Stewie's excellent adventure", we see a flash-forward to the future where the eldest of the Griffin children is now a trans man, taking the name Ron. It's not exactly good rep, he gets misgendered and is the butt of a few jokes, but it's better than this episode by a lot.

[@prageruwu69]

i mean, the future meg stuff still fucked a lot of us up and made us hate ourselves

[@kayla8402]

This one also stood out to me for the characters' behavior not even feeling like them. Quagmires' confusion, yeah, and that wasn't a half bad character arc if it weren't surrounded by so much crap pushing it to be worse, but the Griffins all felt out of character. For as much as they're all terrible people over the course of the show (and a change even from the first couple seasons where they're crass and rude but not entirely malicious), this just felt entirely off. The Brian bit felt even worse to me because it felt in character, just... in character when you discover something awful about someone you thought was fine. Because like the stuff Lois says just feels totally out of character, whereas Brian it feels more naturally done relative to the show. ugh. "That's still my past, this is about my future" just happens to be a pretty amazing line though. Goddamit. Demonstrates they CAN write a good, nuanced bit of characterization.

[@aidanhugh2490]

For me the Lois stuff felt more in character considering her traditionalism and limited allyship towards the LGBTQ, like in the episode where Brian's gay cousin Jasper gets engaged. She supports the "lifestyle" but thinks marriage is a sacred act between a man and a women overseen by (protestant) god. Brian's reaction on the other hand stung a little more. Brian has always been the moral anchor of the family and a character that grounded an otherwise chaotic family. He was the smartest character next to Stewie, and definitely the most open-minded. Hell, in the aforementioned episode Brian was even a protagonist in it. He was immediately supportive of his cousin when he got engaged, offered for them to use the house as a venue, called Lois out on her bullshit, and held Mayor West at gunpoint after he illegalized gay marriage (gay marriage was legal at the time in Rhode Island) as a way to deflect from a recent scandal he was involved in. Brian's only real flaw in that episode is that he lost his temper and pulled a gun on him, it was all the homophobic characters who had to learn from Brian and Jasper! I really haven't liked this new direction they've taken Brian in, where he's a pseudo-intellectual prick. It's gotten to the point where people think this has always been his baseline. Sure the new Brian (not the dog named "New Brian", the old new Brian) has his funny moments, but the sarcastic, dry, intelligent Brian had those moments( he also provided a different kind of comedy which I feel like is sorely missed in current Family Guy episodes) and was also a relatable, genuinely likable character.

[@omnipresentsnowflake4698]

5:10 I've had pretty much the exact same exchange with my mother where she thinks I can't be both trans and bi because if I'm transitioning it MUST be for the opposite gender??

[@bringmeliara1286]

my favorite part of bigots saying "learn to take a joke" is when they get real mad or quiet the moment a show makes fun of them. can't count how many times my uncle has sat there seething when a show makes a light jab at cis men, then lost his mind laughing at "aren't minorities disgusting" jokes. and the one time, when i was like 15, that i brought up that the joke was just mean for the sake of it and not funny, he got the whole family to dog-pile me and belittle me. lucky im the sort of autistic who doesn't feel shame and was able to explain that the joke was actually meant to show how stupid homophobes are (which, predictably, was completely ignored and had no effect on him) but imagine how fucking awful that could have been. To get a group of people to harass and make fun of a kid just for disagreeing with you. It's already hardwired the idea that conflict starts from bringing up that jokes aren't funny in my mind, and that's exactly what these horrible people want.

[@madiskin]

Shockingly, Seth MacFarlane’s latest show (The Orville) does a much better job. Because it’s Sci-fi it tells trans acceptance stories through cis aliens, gay love stories through straight aliens, and mental health stories through emotionless android aliens. It’s weird, but I genuinely think it’s way better representation than what most shows give nowadays. I’m of course not going to fully credit Seth as an ally and assume he’s changed enough, imho the best bits seem to originate from his writing team (especially in seasons 2 and 3, the writing is too good to be his). After the first episode I dropped the show but one of my friends convinced me to give it another chance because they were just so excited to see a show supportive of trans people.

[@espinita.]

I love how an average Family Guy fan would write this all off as they make fun of everybody. That's not an excuse for being a fucking bigot

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

South Park does it better

[@mementojc9260]

The entire family guy fandom fucking hates this episode lol

[@shyguy85]

wahhhh wahhhh wahhh thats what you sound like

[@etenby699]

There's also this trope of the Angry man mad at his friend slept with his relative that's also very annoying. Like, who cares about who your relative fucked? There's also the possessive sibling/pet trope that I HATE.

[@SarahExpereinceRequiem]

I really don't understand how a man who loves musical theater so much can be so homophobic and transphobic.

[@MiloKuroshiro]

Musical theater is waaaay more homophobic than you think. There's a reason why so many queer actors had to fake their whole lives. It's run by multimillionaires REALLY old straight men and it always was.

[@enbyarchmage]

My mom genuinely loves Freddie Mercury and many other gay musicians, but she's queerphobic enough to cry behind my back to her friends, bc I'm Queer and vocally defend that we're JUST as acceptable as cishets. My point is that ppl who love e.g musical theatre just love musical theatre, IN SPITE of it being full of Queers.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

​@@enbyarchmage Queen was awesome

[@mementojc9260]

Seth us far from homopobic. The trans episode is just poorly aged imo

[@GaijinGuy36]

Family Guy is like the challenged kid I went to high school with, who didn't have a clue about the difference between good and bad attention. He didn't care if people laughed at him and mocked him, as long as he wasn't being ignored.

[@archaeoangie]

oh man this episode of fg fucked me up. set back my acceptance of myself years when I saw it when I was younger

[@thisisawsome34253212]

Family Guy always gets worse. It's been 13 years since this episode aired, and the show has become significantly more insulting in that time.

[@whateverart]

it’s so sad because they somehow made ida such a sweet and down to earth character but made everyone treat her like absolute garbage. honestly they treat her worse than meg bc at least they give meg redeeming episodes