What Did Il'gynoth Say ?? Revisiting the Whispers of the Old Gods !

In World of Warcraft Dragonflight we are starting to revisit the Whispers of the Old Gods to understand the truth of Warcraft Lore and the story.
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[@stop7556]

As a reminder, circle of stars is the name of the room/area azshara was in during the eternal palace raid. The achievement for killing her is called the circle of stars. The queue for killing the void boss then azshara was called the circle of stars.

[@Zilla_Dilla]

This. And he says find him in the circle of stars.....welll when we defeat Azshara, N'Zoth appears and whisks her away so how is this not THE Circle of Stars @accolonn

[@Nr4747]

True, but Dragonflight has recontextualized a lot of the Il'gynoth whispers, and I believe the dev team are finally really using the whispers as a full-on blueprint. I believe the "Circle of Stars"-whisper is one of those that got recontextualized and now refers to the final room in the Aberrus raid. It makes more sense in terms of "drowing yourself in it" since you have to jump down into a seemingly vastly deep pool and actually land in another pool in the end. We still don't know who "he" is, then (if the whisper is no longer referring to N'Zoth), could be Dimensius, another void being/Void Lord/Void God or potentially even Neltharion. What I strongly believe however: The "its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below"-whisper also refers to the Circle of Stars in Aberrus.

[@CraigSavage]

Regarding the "three lies", Ogmat's Dream Journal says the first lie has already been told. While Ogmat is unreliable, it's a piece showing a timeline for a lie.

[@neonmook]

@TheAccolonn "your coming was foretold in the rings" that's got a lot more meaning now than it did 10 months ago

[@Rafofshadows]

I think "hour of her third death" is about Alleria. She said that she feels like she has died twice and with "Midnight" being actual hour, I think something would happen to her at the end of the War within expansion.

[@Nr4747]

Yes, most likely. She recently got a lot of focus in short stories and in-game quests.

[@dragoninsight4232]

The Theory that Azaroth could be the progentitor of the old gods has indeed some coherence. Conciddering that all the old Gods are inspired by the works of Lovecraft. C'thun was named after Cthulhu, Yog Saron and was named after yog sothoth for exemple. In the lore of the Mythos the Demon Sultan is called Azathoth which closly resembles the name of Azaroth. Azathoth is discribed as the idiot god having no mind while his soul is represented by an avatar being called Nyalathopep apearing in humanoid form. May be Azaroth is indeed a mindless womb bearing the old gods, with Xalathath being her Mind manifest as an Avathar equivalent to Nyalathopep.

[@jamesio20]

I can't help but think the way we "defeated" N'Zoth and how wrathion was involved, maybe he is somehow still under influence or working for to bring back N'zoth... would make sense why he was chosen as part of that story and the 3 lies whisper..

[@immortal_newbie]

I think the voice Magni Heard was Azeroths and it Is because something Raszageth says in the raid, she says: You think Titans brought order to this World? No! They shackled it! What they could not control, they imprisoned. Just like the aspectos did to us!... So what if Azeroth was nurturing life through the elemental power, using the dream, and as you said before Eonar Is a "life binder"... What if Azeroth was also using the power of the black empire to build her dreamed World. A World not separated and "ordered" in the diferent realms we are shown in the cosmic order map, but a World were all the Powers can work in a great cosmic convergeance, and since that Is obviously out of the idea of order the Titans know and since Azeroth Is the most powerful being of the universe, then they decided to imprison her and use the dream and the old gods prisons as anchors, I say this because every time we defeat an old god it would seem she awakens a bit more and she wants to be freed... Now Sargeras, I think he suspected this, and it Is the reason why he stabed Azeroth... At least it Is how I see it

[@Ferdawoon]

Questions I would like to ask Steve Denuser: When the Whispers of Il'gynoth (both in Legion and BfA) and the Whsipers of Xal'atath were written, was there a plan for all of them? As in, did you have a particular event or Character in mind when writing each one of them? How far into the future did you plan these events, as in "This will be the Tomb of Sargeras" or "This will play out at the 3rd raid of Shadowlands" or was it more "this would be a cool event in 3-5 expansions time, unless we come up with something more fun." I dont want them to say "This whisper refers to this event", just if they ever planned the Whispers to last longer than the expansion they were released and how particular they were with them. Or if they just threw some stuff together and thinking people will have fun with it.

[@alexandruneacsu52]

"it's surface blazes bright hiding shadows below". It could refer to the black dragons throne, a lot of lava and fire there, also a throne is something that you can describe as shiny / glowing, so it's not far fetched to consider a dragon throne blazing bright. And we got confirmation from Steve Danuser that the caverns are below it.

[@alexandruneacsu52]

To add on that, on a deeper level it could suggest that wrathion and sabellian are so focused on the throne that they fail to see they will share their father's fate.

[@Nr4747]

I'm fairly certain that the "Circle of Stars"-whisper has been recontextualized (now referring to the final room in Aberrus) and that the whisper you mentioned also refers to the Circle of Stars. Another popular theory (for a long time) was that the bright surface might be the Dragonsoul.

[@thepiazzaexperience]

Something new, something familiar. Didn't an old God whisper they knew us when we went back in time during the bronze quest line?! Wait yeah. Exactly!!! Like you said when we visited it.

[@themetalone7739]

Love the mysteries around the old gods. If they ever release an expansion that's all about fighting the old gods and their armies, I may come back to the game.

[@jamestomlin5525]

They did, but it was just a patch, pft

[@henrychurch6062]

" Her heart is a crater and we have filled it" Sillithis was reduced to a crater and it was turned into the hub for horific visions and the void forge.

[@jamesminto3987]

"it's Surface blazes bright. masking shadows below" means the Dragon Isles

[@ssjbotman9037]

Random drunk thought, Il'gynoth is the seed we planted in the emerald dream.

[@SSskittlez0351]

Super like!!

[@x_ghost_x6612]

Her heart is a crater could be Tyrande. She lost Teldrassil. And now she lost Malfurion.

[@RantechRadio]

Well, a burnt tree makes a good crater. Malfurion being gone…definitely. Elude possibly being void and then cutting her off on power… Now that she has dealt with sylvanas, that kinda makes her a bit lost, trying to rebuild the fallen civilization of elves. Good gateway for a void lord/old god to come corrupt her… Likely during the tree planting on the island and the tree getting corrupted.

[@shenanigansandtrickery]

So I went down the rabbithole after this video, you really need to revisit N'Zoths voice lines from bfa, he mentions infinite at three times as far as I reckoned in different ways, hes talking about a herald at one point. But what really caught my attention was that he said: deals, yessss, I like dealsss at the very end of the video! And he speaks of the swarm, which got me thinking of the mantid, so now I'm off listening to voice lines from grand empress Shek'Zeer and the Paragon of the Klaxxi... Could if possibly be, that the mantids are the children of the first flesh? They are among the oldest races of Azeroth and if you remember in bfa, when N'zoth was released, the mantid where very much present in the corrupted zone of Pandaria. And as allways, keep up your amazing work Acco! 😁

[@Umbryn]

if the timeline is cyclical could explain why the void sees all truths cause they are getting attacked by the light after each failed attempt while the light sees only the one truth which is the way they will make this attempt to kill the void, while the void sees all the attempts that has been before including the current attempt

[@schwipp7431]

I can also think about jaina is meant with the crater quote, since shes still hurt from the theramore bombing

[@TheRealCeeJai]

9:50 I highly doubt it. Remember that these whispers were being written when an entirely different lead story team was present. I don't think they had even planned on Iridikron or even Dragonflight at that point. If the whispers refer to anything specific, they *HAVE* to be events and/or characters that were already introduced or hinted to at that time.

[@Zhirnaya_Lichinka]

Since no one ever revealed the meaning of these whispers, they could always be retrospectively reviewed

[@nikolastevanovic3495]

Child of the first flesh are Djaradin just lock how they got their power.According to djaradin folklore, their people were once the first earth giants that roamed the world, shaping the world with their fists; including the Dragon Isles. Four ancient elders enacted an unknown ritual, the process of which is unknown even to the djaradin, but when they emerged from burrowing deep within the earth; they wielded powers of fire and magma. They shared this blessing with the rest of their kind, creating the djaradin as they are known today.That is why we see naga in DF they are geting recruited to do their part fo the deal for the power they got!

[@jamescraft1168]

Accolon I want to point out something interesting I’ve noticed. Everyone says murzond is nozdormu as it’s an anagram of the name and it has been said here and there in the lore. But Alexstraza absolves him of wrongdoing. But then chronicles re affirms he did it (which we don’t trust). What if murzond is is alexstraza and her last words were uttered someone she loved (nozdorumu) but because she was corrupted the word came out an anagram and that became her name. Also all of the artwork for murzond matches alexstraza in both wing and in head spike and configuration. It does not match nozdormu) were we being lied to all the time and these current events of alexstraza and nozdormu are the telling of that story?

[@BSHoce]

I would say that time is order and chaos. As time goes on entropy increases, entropy is chaos.

[@drakonisvalkirin2762]

The Dragons soul could be what they're referring to when they say, " It's surface blazes bright, masking shadows below." We know that it was created by Deathwing (at this point a minion of the old gods). And now that the Aspects have gotten their power back (the torches being lit) it could be furthered empowered.

[@mccholock4577]

What if "A Presence, Something new , yet familiar. Yes" is talking about the creation of murozond it is something new but also familiar cause nozdormu has always been there as well ?

[@Torlonus]

These whispers are fun but as a DM most of them scream to me "We haven't decided what this will refer to yet." Most are vague enough to mean just about anything. Reminds me of another set of prophecies from a different setting. It talks about a sword of stars and three serpents. One person is convinced the sword of stars is a comet and the three serpents were three people who were joining them on their ship, however in the end it turns out the sword of stars was their ship and the three serpents the three fragments of the comet. While I do enjoy speculating on the whispers but I feel we won't know what they mean until Blizzard finally decides to use them. But for the record I agree with the king of diamonds theory.

[@trymeout1091]

the presence is us, the player. His whisper is confirming what our future to go back in time in DF....he knows us but doesn't at the same time...a paradox. I believe this is the case b/c I believe in canon, we never cleanse ourselves from "the Gift of N'zoth"...he recognizes his marker but not us...yet.

[@apku04]

the twist of Azeroth being the mother of all ollgods man that could be a wicket twist

[@TheAccolonn]

I think it could make for such an interesting story arc.

[@clogs4956]

I think it’s possible: the Old Gods = Greek Titans (especially those imprisoned by Zeus).

[@lichslayer0045]

That draw on Earth would probably be everyone who draws powers of the earth like the Black Dragons Neltharion Iridikron and anyone in general. Who's powers are of Earth magic only.

[@christophervansickle3963]

This is one of your best speculation videos to date Good Sir!!!

[@EugenTemba]

"In the hour of her third death.." is a rererence to Azeroth.

[@thestalwartinefromstalwart4126]

"Her heart is a crater" always makes me think of the crater places such as Un'goro Crater and Azshara Crater

[@wildfire_gaming]

Could the children of the first flesh be the dracthyr? Something was added when they were created, maybe old god magic like the curse of flesh. And I believe the dracthyr were created befor the curse of flesh so they could be the first. Reclaiming what was theirs could be their black dragon essence, which was extracted from them. Than the harbinger could be Wrathion or anyone else guiding the dracthyr, even Nozdormu in a way

[@ketofitforlife2917]

21:26 Harbinger = Iridikron Children OF the First Flesh = Dracthyr Fyrakk just burst open the ground to let them into Aberrus. Iridikron knew the Dracthyr were watching, to "reclaim what they lost".

[@brandonbarta1858]

What about Deathwing’s heart in Orgrimmar? Could explain the whispers being triggered by the dagger, as it was referring to the old gods. “A dark heart left broken” what if Neltharion found and infused himself with Yogg-Saron’s heart. Equipped himself with obsidian armor plates to try to contain it due to him being titan touched. This could also explain how he was able to make the dracthyr when even the titans failed to create life. It’s also suspended in chains. “They shackled it! What they could not control, they imprisoned!.” I mostly play the game for raiding, never read a lot of the lore books so I could be way off. But from listening to a lot of your videos talking about the old gods recently this is really standing out to me.

[@Luc.Hewett]

"It's surface shines bright but below lies shadow" That's Tyrhold/ The dragon Isles and Aberrus imo Circle of stars was the last room in the Eternal Palace raid

[@TheAccolonn]

I'm well aware of the room, I have since explained why I believe the circle of stars, the real one, lies elsewhere. But that's not really important now I think.

[@seradew8103]

Can't help but notice the new "Opening the Way" cinematic perfectly matches a lot of the whispers from Emerald Nightmare Il'gynoth. Not only for the fact the cinematic literally is called opening the way, lol.

[@a_diamond]

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it." I still think this is likely Alextrasza.

[@Bestlich]

Old gods has to be the best arcs in this franchise outside of wrath.

[@chromaether]

nyalatha existing all around known world sounds reallyyy cool and reminds me of hxh dark continent lol

[@geminiguy9546]

"It's surface blazes bright, masking shadows below" - I know you recorded this more than two weeks ago, but now we know that this might be referring to Shadowflame coming in the story of the upcoming patch :)

[@xxmiami]

Can someone answer this question...if the titans can't be trusted, which we are realizing they can't....why doesn't Illidan agree with sargaras who was trying to help azeroth escape her "prison". I think in the near future we see the cutscene where sargaras convinces Illidan to side with him or he convinces us to side with him also.

[@a_diamond]

Also, I think the Queen is Xal'atath.. and we have all accudentially already taken the first steps to freeing her.. Keep in mind that the first voice Ashara hears is Xal'atath's not N'Zoth's.. he comes right on the heels of the female voice but Ashara hears a female voice before the male one.

[@cryam6428]

Going to spin a theory. Not necessarily one I want, but trying to tie a lot of whispers together. "Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path." "Five lanterns now darkened. The flames they seek will light the Masters' way." The Oath Stones are not a key as like a jail cell, rather just a tool. But by putting the Aspects on this journey there are going to be plans set in motion that have consequences upon consequences. Like dominos this is but the first. "Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below." A titan facility. We are always in so much splender and wonder that we never question what is below the surface. We have to journey to a facility to restore the powers of the Aspects and we can't do it without help. "From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength." Tyr. The titans love to study, to experiment. They observed how the old gods corrupted some waters to create Galakrond. The Titans secret to the aspects versatility is power of their very enemies. Due to Tyrs' death he cannot do this alone his clearances would be removed. "The lord of ravens will turn the key." As said, there will be certain clearance levels needed in order to re-awaken this power that only the Prime Designate may wield, Odyn. Odyn will make himself known due to his bonds with Tyr, and we wil see him serve a roll in all of this setting this in motion. "Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it." Alexstraza. The queen of dragons, the one with love for all living creatures especially other dragon kind. We already see glimpses of this as she reflects on the Primal Incarnates. The secrets they held from each other and the betrayal of Neltharion. There are fissures forming in her heart (borrowing that from 10.0.7 cinematic). When she learns that the Titans based her entire empire on a lie, when she learns she is just another tool and experiment, she will fall into despair. She may see what became of her brother, see the "birth" of Murozond, she may get betrayed by Odyn (another possibility of "turn the key") who hated the dragons. When her devotion waivers, the whispers will take control. "The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green." "At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming." Alexstraza again. Think less of a literal death or near death experience, and more simply a transformation. - Alexstraza had her life as protodrake, that ended long ago. "Death 1". - Alexstraza is still on her second life, but if the actions eluded to in previous whispers occur then we may see corruption and her life as an Aspect end. "Death 2". - This new Alexstraza, now corrupted by the old gods, will be notable like when Ysera had her eyes color change. We shall see a green tint to our beloved mother dragon. - In a future expansion we will see the accumulation of this whisper. She will be seen as a threat and it will be our duty to fight her. Thus we have "Death 3" and fulfill the whisper. "Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator." "To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars." To fully understand what became of our Draonflights, of our Queen, we must find the source. Which is the precursor to the curse of flesh. It's why Galakrond was sprouting limbs and eyes everywhere, like the Primal Incarnates adapting to elemental magic at an extreme capacity, so too was Galakrond adapting at an extreme capacity to the curse. But either because of protodrakes ability to infuse with magic or because Yogg-Saron was only starting to design his curse, Galakrond became what he did and now Alexstraza suffered from it as well. This is how we learn of the circle of stars, of how to commune with the cosmic realms and find remanents of the Old Gods. "The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you." - Wrathion. Because of the consequences of everything up onto now, we are now without our Dragon Queen. Wrathion never one to ignore a mantle steps forward as one who will insist leadership of all dragon kind. Effectively still a boy in the eyes of dragon age, he acts as a King of Dragons. He will see all the events befoldeding the Titans and the Old Gods, of Alexstraza and maybe even Murozond, and the war between the Aspects and the Primalists, and he will offer lies. He serves Azeroth, the true master, and will usher in a new direction for all Dragon kind.

[@TheMikestMike91]

I don’t remember exactly where but there is a dialogue with Alleria Windrunner talking about how it feels like she’s “suffered two deaths” or “died twice”. Not saying it’s her but not saying it’s not either

[@archmagealodi]

I have a feeling that Sargeras isn't the one we should worry about when the red star vanishes from the sky.

[@SteeL_569]

C'thun said "You are already dead." Might be a reference to the ultimate victory of the old gods. Although 20 years ago might be just retconning at this point.

[@hamednabati]

Medivh opened the way for legion, Khadgar will open for the void

[@WingItCosplay]

A nice brisk jog as soon as I got the notification, as always♡

[@TheAccolonn]

It is always appreciated. Thank you.

[@crazymat69]

When it says when one storm recedes another rises what if it's talking about the stormrage Brothers

[@Tinyflower1]

They shackled it = Life, they shackled life. What they could not control they imprisoned (old gods and life via the emerald dream)

[@theonlysuccuboys9650]

I think the “Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it” could be in reference to Alexstrasza. Alex is the poster child of the expansion, and she has known much grief. Il’gynoth was introduced in the lore just after Ysera had died, and was first encountered in Ysera’s Emerald Dream. Since Il’gynoth is encountered in the Dream, it’s safe to assume it was in the Dream long pre-dating Legion, hiding and manipulating events like all Old Gods and their minions do. In Shadowlands, Ysera gives us a quest to get a token of her love for the being that Alex loved most, which people thought was Krasus. Alex states that the being she loved most was Ysera, her clutch sister. Previously, Alex had broken the Orb of Unity at Wyrmrest and flew to Desolace, waiting to die when she learned that Krasus had died. Surely after hearing about Ysera’s death, the one she loved the most with all of her heart, she would’ve gone into an even deeper depression in which the Old Gods then could’ve taken advantage of?

[@DragonsController8]

I’m unsure if the third death one is Azeroth… she’s technically died 5 times. Yasharajz, the sundering, Illidan attacking ice crown if you take Malfurion swords literally in Warcraft 3, the Shattering in Cata, and then the sword of Sargaras

[@xDuncan03x]

Even now the Harbinger gathers the children of the first flesh to reclaim what was lost... a few possibilites arise but I'm leaning towards mortals got brainwashed by the titans.. I'm almost scared to know the future.

[@alexfisher6819]

i would argue the sword is the 4th death for azeroth 1 - the scoring 2 - the sundering 3 - the cataclysm 4 - the sword

[@ArgerasCZ]

omg I am so happy I found this video because I miss this crazy theory talks ever since pyromancer left Wow, you got new sub, great video :) also what if ''A pressence, something new, yet familiar. Yes'' talks about us visiting black empire in dragonflight quest ? ''Your coming was foretold in the rings. The long circle is nearly complete.'' can also be connected to that and like us visiting black empire and Nzoth saying I know you ... Nzoth 100% ain't dead and defeated, he had thousand of years to prepare for that, I think it was somehow fake death in bfa ending, ain't now way btw love your time Nozdormu theory

[@TheAccolonn]

Welcome mate, very happy to have you, that's a very good catch actually. I imagine it can be that. Since they are fragments of the Old Gods it's possible they have seen us before just very long ago and not with their own eyes.

[@mejfuz]

At this point, the biggest conspiracy and theorycrafting is to believe that all of this have any meaning at all at the current time in the story and forward. It could have been a part of a grand master plan, all of it having a meaning, supposed to be revealed at the end of some major major happening. As of now, I believe all of these have been internally discontinued and theyre trying to move onto the new era lore asap (post-SL lore). Maybe they will eventually bring some of this stuff back if it accidentally fits some new story they will create, but its definitely not in their goal to fulfil any of these "prophecies" and other stuff. Anyone who was responsible for putting this stuff into the game most likely have no power to finish these stories and it will rest upon the wasteland of unfinished stories, topped by what sword?

[@Raiden6978]

the funny thing is if you look where all the old gods are lock up at. there at the edge of the map of azeroth

[@tombergamojr]

One of your best videos yet dude!!! I did have a question thou, when did Medivh soul get grounded in Kara. I thought when we last saw him he went off in the universe to fight something else more powerful then the Legion/Old Gods

[@kali5719]

What if azeroth herself is caged? There's titan machinery all over and around her heart (that we saw in BFA)..She's not a titan. Notice Spirit is missing from Azeroth. Bc the world soul is imprisoned and cannot give it to us. Sylvanas said blatantly--this world is a prison. It's powering The Cycle. Notice that Odin has Azeroth's color magic beside him...Azerite flames. (sorry for mispell). They Use her. That's what Razagath was talking about, saying they Caged IT. Her heart/soul. Her power. And now her soul/power fuels reality. The Halls of orgination would also feed this, in that, they're fueled by Azeroth, who is the origin of life on the planet. Also, The Forge of Souls in Icecrown...Likely, literally named, and was activated with Azurite.. In essence, i think the titans have done a terrible thing. And they're hiding it. The Burning Legion got the idea of tormenting world souls from the titans...Argus was tormented and, in Revendreth, souls were tortured and more anima came from them. Thus, Argus was likely in a similar situation. The tie is that Argus was infused with death magic...which is tied to the Shadowlands. They ordered the cycle of life and death to feed on itself ....but for what reason, I don't know. The titans didn't order this world, Azeroth did. And titans are supposed to create "order", but the things here already existed. /endhypothesis

[@eyeofthasky]

Wrathion was always called the black prince in Mists, and princes are kings, boy-kings to be precise

[@nazuul]

The Circle of Stars is related to the Celestial Pattern Maps that are particular to Celestial beings from the Outer Planes of the wow universe. We know that each Celestial is connected to a specific Celestial Pattern that is for all intensive purposes a group of stars connected in a certain pattern. The Ancient Night Elves knew about the importance and how Circles of Stars in particular patterns reflected celestial beings and could likely even use them to summon or conjure an aspect of these beings when they made use of these patterns. So it is logical that they held these Circles of Stars in high regard as part of their faith likely with some level of awe and desire. This potentially lead to them somehow adding some aspect to their believes around some kind of ascension or enlightenment where one could transcend to obtain their own circle of stars allowing them to travel the cosmos etc. So the reference to Azshara and the Circle of Stars is in reference to her likely obtaining one of these Celestial Star Patterns for herself and then able to travel to the Void (Umbra) without fear of dying. It is also important to note that the Nightborne (Also an Ancient Night Elf Race Like Azshara) also seemed to have some clear connection to the aspect of Stars as well. They called a place Court of Stars could it not be possible that their believes split on how they could obtain and ascend to obtain a Celestial Star Pattern. The Nightborne believing that it had some connection with Arcane likely due to the Titan influences where Azshara's Night Elves keep the older believe systems they had been practicing for years.

[@nordicpush1452]

Im only waiting till we get Void expanshiion and Acco will " This is so fking obvius now!":).

[@anonymousSWE]

The old gods were once titans themselves. And the titans now are trying to stop the circle of time so they do not have to become old gods themselves. The incarnates are the first flesh and the ones that are "recycled" into life when the time starts anew. Some beings got too fond of life and will do anything to break the cycle of time. The more they try to fight it, the stronger the void becomes. Azeroth is the cycle.

[@Mharad35]

About Iridikron : i wonder if he made a deal, not with the old gods, but with Murozond. Since they have the same goal, it would make sense. I had this idea few weeks ago because you talk about ennemies/opposite working together against common ennemies. It's not the only thing that made me think about that : when Iridikron got release, Nozdormu suddently felt something and said "The timeways. They are... chaotic, but still obscured. A dark future looms on the horizon". I don't know about you, but i feel like what he said is much more important than we think. Why didn't he felt it before ? He didn't have such a reaction when Raszageth was release which is surprising because her coming back was extremely impactful. Then did someone interact with time for Nozdormu to feel such a thing ? We were asking ourself if Iridikron strucked a bargain with light because of the power he was using but the color theme also match the sand, the time

[@matthewwatson1297]

So considering the maelstrom is created from the sundering. The well of eternity would have been directly below the circle of stars still and even in the book the war of the ancients there is a old God entity under the water while everyone is fighting ( possibly nzoth I can't remember exactly ) So if that is the fact perhaps the well of eternity siphoned it's arcane power FROM the umbral veil which is what made it limitless. "From the earth they draw our strength"

[@starkite123]

"Her heart is a crater and we have filled it" Jaina's love for her people and city of theramore literally being made into a crater when Garrosh bombed it. Such sorrow and emotional turmoil leaves someone vulnerable to subtle whispers. I think Jaina, being as powerful as she is, would be a prime target for N'zoth to begin his manipulation.

[@TheAccolonn]

A few expacs ago I would've agreed, now I'm not so sure.

[@NetherCrafterSMC]

Medivh is in the Twisting Nether btw

[@Chronicgamer36]

I'm late to this, but the whole "King of diamonds has been made a pawn" to me doesn't indicate that he's under the influence of the old gods. If that were true, I think the whisper would be "made our pawn". Instead, magni is a pawn of the Titans -- he doesn't have free will, he is able to communicate with Eonar's essence on Argus, and overall I think the communication with azeroth is just him able to connect to Titan facilities.

[@Mroutburst666]

Been thinking bout hour of her third death could be ysera,losing powers/mortality, her death from the nightmare and now they seem to be setting her up to get her affairs in order. Just a theory

[@jakubcislak9246]

I think people are looking at the wrong part of the whisper: Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it. I think people believe it to be a straight forward line when the important part is: Her heart is a crater. Why is her heart a crater? This has to something that happened before the Old Gods arrived, because for something to fill, it means there has to be something missing first. I think the spirit Azeroth devoured is the crater. And the Old gods filled it by providing her with fleshy kids with more spirit than any other. The Old gods, specifically Yogg'Saron, made humans, vrykul, gnomes, and drwaves which all are very spirited. But Old god creations non the less. Azeroth is already tempted by void, I think. Not corrupted but certainly interested in it if her fleshy races are liked by her.

[@wysh7205]

There was a datamined Medivh outfit, and staff of atiesh a couple months ago

[@TheAccolonn]

Shiiiiiit I need to see that.

[@NotjustGrey]

“The hour of her third death” does not rule out a character dying additional times. Sylvan as dying 4 times does not rule out that this applies to her. Azeroth being stabbed did not kill her. She has been wounded, not killed.

[@Burlehmangus]

And what if the queen they speak of is ya’sharaj…the other gold gods are “male, but xalatath was female, and maybe ya”sharaj is too. So here’s the theory..in the new raid tier the fight takes place in space in the middle of the void, surrounded by stars etc. literally encircled by stars…and you can tell by the chains it’s an old god prison. Old gods return to void when they die, so ya”sharaj might have gone to the void and the Titans found her there regenerating, and imprisoned her in the middle of the void. Now she got out

[@nikolastevanovic3495]

And the 3rd page of the Song of the depths is talking about primal power and rage that is the Djaradin elders that are inprisoned in Deathwings laboratory.

[@NotjustGrey]

Re: circle of stars and drowning self… presumably, those who seek other lands do so by marine transport. Perhaps they end up drowning at the correct location (circle of stars) and breaking through the veil.

[@slackmartin7610]

Blizzard 300000% did not plan Dragonflight material back in Legion. So I would not make connections between the whispers and characters introduced now unless they clearly make a retcon about the lore.

[@TheAccolonn]

Overall lore is planned years in advance. Things can change sure but lore has a very long lead time.

[@slackmartin7610]

@@TheAccolonn yeah I absolutely agree with you, what I'm saying is that I do not believe that Blizzard has the capability to plan the lore out like this. A comparison would be that the Jailer was a thing back in WC3 or WoTLK, which we all know is not the case

[@jerryshadley8977]

want to point out what if khadgar is the "harbinger" in question? its surface blazes bright. masking shadows below.....is the new upcoming raid the shadowed crucible.

[@TheRealCeeJai]

47:38 Yes, Azeroth. It's almost definitely a reference to Azeroth's world soul and how much more powerful it was than the members of the Pantheon.

[@Ferdawoon]

From a Void Lord's (or Void creature like Il'gynoth) point of view, Magni could be seen as a Pawn for the Titans. We still see Void as the baddies, and "being a pawn" is seen as something negative. Pawn, not allied or assisting or aiming for the same goal. Pawn. Unwillingly or unknowingly assisting and helping. Negative connotation. it don't have to mean allied with Void or the Jailer or something else. Just a Pawn or something that the Void thinks is bad, thinks less of. Same as when Police take a statement from a witness. If Acco calls someone skinny, Asmongold could call the same person heavy. It's about perspective.

[@trymeout1091]

circle of stars could still be the river of souls...there was a theory somewhere that Yogg-Saron was where all the souls that went to Torghast would finally be devoured....by "The Beast With a Thousand Maws"

[@trymeout1091]

and the way Accolonn described the Maelstorm...is exactly how the denizens of Shadowlands described the Maw.

[@egralud]

The circle of stars is the celestial map.

[@youmeandgravity]

The Circle of Stars is an achievement from BfA which involved killing several bosses in the Eternal Palace raid (including Queen Azshara) which I think means the Circle of Stars is probably the name of the prison that N'zoth was contained in, and thus justifies Azshara being the subject of several of these whispers

[@PazOfficial]

Isn’t that just the achievement for killing bosses lol, and isn’t the circle the name of the place you fight Azshara?

[@PazOfficial]

Pretty obvious that that was Nzoth’s prison

[@XxHrallundeadrogueXx]

Azshara Queen of tentacles must return!

[@Flohrd]

Her heart is a crater... Could it be Alleria? Her heart is a crater could be in reference of the sadness about all of what happened with sylvanes (lore/game/comics) and Turalyon not not understand why the void and not the light, blablabla. And well, filled with the void... quite litterally, full of void powers and she is struggling to fight the whispers and keep control. What do you all think?

[@Sevatar_VIIIth]

@Accolonn you mentioning Khadgar here reminded me of something i read about back in Legion during the Nightborne questline. I wont go into detail here but theres significant evidence to suggest Malygos's locked facility in. Azure Span may be linked through lay lines that run throughout Azeroth, there is a place built ontop of Lay Lines in Deadwind Pass....The Lord of Ravens turns the key to open the masters way through. And like you just said, Medivh is trapped in..... and did we ever find out what Khadgar was really doing in the Shadowlands creeping around the way he was? Could he be trying to find a way to bring Medivh back? What say you?

[@GhostRat__]

What if the dragon becomes the tree. Then he would remember us exactly but it would be new because it would be the first time that he has seen us but isn’t the first time

[@jamesrose8778]

Edited: Used wrong dragon's name. Her third death could be referring to Sindragosa. She died, was resurrected, we killed her again, now she has an Avatar hanging out in the Azure Vault. Its connecting a bunch of ley lines that are probably tied to the Oath Stones, which could be the torches. Something could happen that kills the Avatar while overloading the stones with arcane energy infusing it into the earth empowering what we suspect is an old god imprisoned in the dragon isles.

[@Sinthi3l]

Didnt you mean more like... Sindragosa...? She was killed during War of the Ancient, then resurrected by Arthas..

[@jamesrose8778]

@@Sinthi3l Yes, you're correct I was thinking it was Sinestra for some reason.

[@Taskorilla]

I think if the boy king refers to Wrathion maybe before the aspects, when the protodragons were the big dogs, maybe black dragons were the head of the hierarchy of protodragons?

[@a_diamond]

"He" could also be Ebonhorn (Ebyssian).. I mean.. I hope not.. but it's possible.. right now he seems like the perfect new black aspect.. As for Adamanthia: I think it's possible but unlikely..

[@dsrtstrmvet9644]

I wonder how much influence Nostradamus and his quatrains had on the Blizzard developers to come up with these whispers.

[@Nedread]

Sylvanas shattered the veil revealing the Shadowlands to us. What if that veil wasn't just separating reality from the Shadowlands specifically, but was a grander veil separating from reality - and Azshara transcended THROUGH that veil?

[@eisande6237]

Its surface blazes bright…the world soul? Her third death. Has Xalatath died?

[@DEML91]

You are forgetting that The First Ones exist now and they were the ones that created the six Powers and their masters, Elune is a moon yes but she is more then that , the whole thing of moon reflecting the light doesn't really apply because she is a magical entity that can clearly make her own light, another thing Nozdormu and Murozond don't exist simultaneously, it was clear form all the interactions with had with them that it exists one or the other never both.

[@JL67543]

Wrathions title is literally the black prince in game. Sounds like boy king to me

[@clogs4956]

The protodrakes did not bring down Galakrond: a small group of them, those who became Aspects, worked together to do it using their flight powers and a hand (lols) from Tyr - and even they didn’t know why or how they gained sentience. Indications are that Tyr did something, interfered with the protodragons, because it was necessary. Before that, they were true beasts driven only by instincts. So, where were Razageth and the others in this?

[@cjmahar7595]

What of the corrupted heart is ysera? They said she's changed since coming back to life

[@gabrielweiss5553]

"It" refering to the dragon isles? underneath is the labratory and more deathwing secrets? Dragon isles is so bright and shiny

[@cjmahar7595]

What if the battle between light and dark in wow universe is like capture the flag where azeroth is the flag

[@CKO_Gaming]

I initially thought maybe Elune was being referenced to the 3 deaths, but there has already been 3 deaths of night warriors and tyrande escaped it, who would have been the 4th

[@Lgd4033fourty]

Everliving Statuette: The seventh covets what the six hold fast. The fulcrum wavers. All will be undone. 7 old gods? The 7th being Azeroth herself?

[@TheAccolonn]

Or the 7 cosmology forces.

[@Lgd4033fourty]

@@TheAccolonn Foresight- Dagran Thaurissan II the boy king?