My favorite browser is (kind of) dead

[@nasko235679]

It's so weird to give up on your product because it doesn't have a BILLION users.

[@koenignero]

Espacially as it was clear that is a niche product since the beginning

[@LiveErrors]

@@joel_the_ai if you need a bilion users your buisness model is screwed

[@renascence239]

They took VC money and overpromised. I guess you could see it coming. This is why Andreas Kling does not want any VC money.

[@arghya_333]

I remember google doing the same to Stadia which was (I think?) the most successful cloud gaming platform at that time.

[@reallyWyrd]

That's how Venture Capitalists think. They think: "but surely if Steve Jobs could do the iPod, iPad, iPhone, then surely I: a 'visionary' can *also* find a way to milk this crap for billions. Surely I can do it too." They don't give a f--- about the users or the quality of the product. It's gross. (And of course for legal reasons all of the above is *technically* just an opinion, etc.)

[@colin_actually]

stay strong, fellow Firefoxers

[@zulfiqrysaadputra]

I wanted to use Firefox, but they are biased on implementing Browser APIs. Some stay unsupported for ages with a hard "no". Some have partial support with no actual tracker for the full support. Also the mobile version still lacks too much.

[@yellows5685]

I'm a zen'ner

[@RenderingUser]

Firefox wins in 2 weeks when esc to focus the page from the address bar finally becomes a feature

No matter how shitty Mozilla is, Firefox is actually FOSS and some half backed partially open product. But to be honest web developers push this kind of closed source proprietary partially open model themselves, the issues are homemade.

[@rushinigiri]

How do you make it scroll as smoothly? I'm dying to move to Zen but it's a bit hard to keep track on a page when scroll is all chipped

[@Dianliang233]

Arc had such bad support already. I sent them something like 4 feature request/bug report. They got me back 0 times. Comparing to a similar startup, I sent 2 feature request to Raycast. They literally responded in half an hour. Switched to Zen, btw.

[@alastairtheduke]

You pay for Raycast. Arc is free.

[@Dianliang233]

@@alastairtheduke No, I don't pay for Raycast. I don't find the AI features useful for me.

[@frykauf]

Yeah Orion literally is just like a couple of people and they had very extensive bug report/feature request website almost from the start.

[@frykauf]

Btw Orion has support for chrome/ff extensions and they actually work (unlike waterfox)

[@dealloc]

Gotta say I feel the same. I am an early user, when it was still invite-only, and I had sent the multiple bug reports and feature requests, which are still present or not included. Just one on top of my head is the ability to close all _empty_ windows that will stay as you close tabs. Should be quite a simple thing and boost my workflow by not having to manually close all the empty windows, which some times makes me close windows I didn't intent. Raycast has always been nice folks and responsive. I've followed them a long time before they made Raycast, so I know they are good people and really care about bringing together community.

[@ericdfdsfsdfsdf4788]

I cringe when I hear the Arc SEO speak. It’s so much silicon valley hype BS.

[@djenntt]

SEO?

[@prospekt_1]

@@djennttShief Executive Officer

[@fu886]

@@djenntt shilling executive officer

[@bensadik]

Shit Executive Officer

[@jackhammer915]

Search Engine (un)Optimization

[@abc_cba]

I moved to Zen Browser which is based on Firefox and I don't miss Arc anymore.

[@girishjain5288]

i switched because it somehow feels faster like it starts faster or something i dont hate arc but for my low end pc its kinda slow

[@ericdfdsfsdfsdf4788]

Same

[@Iopal152]

​Agree when i was using arc it felt very buggy compared to zed that felt almost perfect out of the box. Even though its not exactly like arc its still a good replacement​@@girishjain5288

[@brhh]

Zen Browser is literally the future, super customizable and very clean and on top of that %100 open source. literally just can't ask more of a browser it's perfect

[@pauljones9150]

Vivaldi is king

[@robinquintero2351]

Arc was great when it launched, i think their greatest achievement is that it inspired Zen brower which is objectively better and will live on thanks to the community

[@goodguyhenri2090]

No linux port was the nail in the coffin for me. Just switched to zen, has been an awesome experience. No account needed, can be even more minimal than arc, not chrome based. I'd recommend it to every power user who has no use for tab bars, marks and inputs constantly visible to click on

[@infinitivez]

The account thing is what's made me avoid it like the plague. I'm sorry, I shouldn't NEED an account to download/use your browser.

[@juniorwmg]

Zen is amazing.

[@veryCreativeName0001-zv1ir]

2% of the MarketShare who probably won't pay anyway makes sense

[@PixelPr0]

Zen is my daily driver too, huge improvements in such a short time

[@OnlyClaX]

I love it, but it's shit on windows, I mean, the browser is great, but it doesn't work very well with DRM content.

[@wrux]

Arc was a nice idea, but they bloated it with soo much useless shit. Zen browser feels much better for developers so most Arc users will probably just move to Zen

[@ArcticPrimal]

Arc switched focus to AI, which was the moment people stopped caring for it. Also performance was bad

[@dyto2287]

They remind me a lot of Rabbit R1. Switching focus with a trend and building software with duck-tape and glue while pretend to be next Apple.

[@itssuhaibalrumi]

for me the performance was as bad as chrome on M1 Macbook , Went back to safari.

[@一Monke一]

@@itssuhaibalrumiFor me on an M1 it was the worst performing browser that I’ve ever used. It was a lot slower than Firefox (what I use rn), quite a bit slower than Chrome and moderately slower than Safari.

[@guard13007]

Oh. Oh that explains it so well. I almost tried it after Theo's first video on it.. and I'm so glad I didn't because it seemed too.. off in a way I couldn't describe. Now I understand why it felt off. The core was already rotten.

[@cubed.public]

Ok, no, I hate this "blame it on AI" mentality I don't think AI should exist on browsers, but the idea that it caused the downfall of Arc is ridiculous. People dislike Arc because it began to act more like a startup, in other words it began to care more for their investors than the users

[@weird_autumn42]

VC-backed stuff continues its trend of not being trustable

[@someguy9175]

Zen is fully open source and Firefox based.

[@seanb7443]

Issue is that it’s Firefox based. Especially if u are a web dev and don’t want to keep switching.

[@someguy9175]

@seanb7443 if you are a web dev you SHOULD test your website on safari, firefox, chrome and mobile anyhow, so skill issue. Besides, Firefox dev tools are about as good as Google's and the sites render the same.

[@kuma8030]

@@seanb7443 it's not that bad. like it's just another render engine. sure if you work with drm stuff you wont be able to watch it but why would it be a hassle to switch to the browser u need to develop a webapp????

[@vaisakh_km]

​@@seanb7443 i develop in firefox and then test in chrome... so i can make sure i have proper cross browser support

[@ClimateChangeDoesntBargain]

@@seanb7443 then don't keep switching

[@lucaslinhares4071]

I guess Zen could be an alternative to arc that doesn't use firebase, is open source, works better on other platforms, especially Linux, is performant and is based on the based browser (Firefox)

[@MokaBeats664]

I'm trying it and... it'll take me some time to adapt

[@Pandacier]

"Based on the based browser" 🔥

[@chaos_monster]

I agree with Theo on how the decision of the browser company to build a second product is eventually kill Arc. Somehow this video feels just like a personal rant, which was fine until you used "journalism" as an argument. Sorry but this content, and other videos by you are not journalism, they are opinions mixed with interesting news. So please don't use the word "journalism", especially when you go on a personal rant.

[@alexanderkirilov7820]

He never said this content was journalistic. He never even outright said he was a journalist

[@EduardsRuzga]

​@@alexanderkirilov7820ge did multiple times

[@EduardsRuzga]

I agree, that video wa 3x too long, too much rant, seems personal

[@chaos_monster]

@@alexanderkirilov7820 15:50 "It is my journalistic duty..." please watch the video before fanboying

[@boccobadz]

Recently many products he invested in are flopping so that's the reason for ranting and yapping.

[@dyto2287]

I'm still baffled of their decision to use Firebase on browser at all. That's absolute lunacy,

[@martinlesko1521]

Browser as a service /j

[@GeorgeDicu-hs5yp]

why?

[@benheidemann3836]

Can you explain why you think that?

[@frezzingaces]

I'm sure their thinking was that it's easy to prototype a feature, and they'll make a better implementation later.

[@hbkirb]

@@benheidemann3836 Because it's putting Google in complete control of a browser that's supposed to be one of the leading alternatives to the Google browser. Some people are ok with that, but it's not clear when you sign up that your data is stored in a Google database service. It's also very easy to mess up permissions in a serverless database like Firebase and accidentally expose data, which already happened with Arc very recently.

[@MD14493]

I don't know, Theo.. To me, having so many items in the download folder is more of an edge case. Also I think because of your chats and interactions being mostly with fans and followers, it's kinda hard to not get biased about such positions.

[@infinitivez]

I was really upset with Josh for saying "you're just fear mongering to get views", but I think ending a tweet with "I think Arc is actually dead" .. he has a point Theo. Honestly think both of you need to be more mindful how you phrase things. He's absolutely incorrect in his assessment (claiming you're doing this for views or slandering), but you were very sharp tongued in yours, and he surely lashed out because of it. But the fact you have zero regrets for making the statement "I think ____ is actually dead", shows me you don't understand the power you wield. Or you do, but you just don't care if you drag Arc into the ground. Ask yourself, do you have zero regret because Josh replied poorly? Or zero regret, because you don't understand your proclamation of doom has consequences? Personally, I don't think Arc will be going anywhere. People put their time and money backing a one trick pony. It has a lot of good base features, and ingenuity in the ways it handles things; but like you, I don't feel there's going to be follow-through. It'll likely stagnate and fizzle out. However, it has't come to that YET.

[@ajayvasisht4182]

completely agree with this take

[@Window4503]

I have nothing to add except to say that this is a good and thoughtful comment.

[@paul_w]

No update = dead software, it’s really that simple.

[@infinitivez]

@@paul_w I'd agree. Let's see, Arc's lastest version for mac was v1.67.0, updated * checks notes * .. Oct 31st, 2024 Huh, I guess that makes it dead? Maybe look before you leap, froggy.

[@jaketus]

Downloads: 233,265 items, 325.2 GB

[@jednotjedi]

585,475 🙃

[@MrMoon-hy6pn]

TIL people use the Downloads folder as general storage💀

[@cobrasys]

Y'all are nuts. 22 files, 3 folders, 412 MB.

[@dexterman6361]

imho the CEO has decent opinions on the thread you're showing. There are other paying customers too. Fixing the issue you face while also being the 0.1% of the cases would be giving you special treatment, which I guess is nice for publicity, but not "fair". Much of this video reads to me like "I do not like the direction of the company with regards to the browser" but instead of that, it is how the one issue you are having that may not see a fix. This just feel like a poor "my issue is the most important issue" to me. Honest opinion.

[@theoriginalstove6675]

I had to stop using Arc for the exact same performance reasons. My browser shouldn't be locking my beefy macbook up.

[@Mordecrox]

"beefy macbook" KEKW

[@jamiw1]

@@Mordecrox bro is trapped in 2018, macbooks now are seriously impressive

[@Mordecrox]

@@jamiw1 I blame exchange rates it's impossible to buy a new mac when local currency to USD more than doubled because government. Some company here was failing and when that happened they just called it quits and recovered part of their losses by liquidating their macbook fleet

[@jamiw1]

@@Mordecrox ah, this is reasonable, for me (USD) price to performance is not bad with the M series of chips, and especially with stuff like build quality and battery life being much better than other laptops

[@rrrdriguez_]

Having a Downloads folder with over 200,000 items and 879GB of data is definitely a SUPER weird use case. Can't be on your side on this one - it's definitely your specific way of using the OS. I'm pretty sure any program you open and try to index your Downloads folder will just shit their pants instantly.

[@Breeze926]

I do think limiting by date or number of items is a good option in general, but 200,00 files on Downloads is insane. Even just dumping them in Desktop or Documents makes more sense. Those folders can also be sorted by date.

[@rrrdriguez_]

@@Breeze926 Totally agree, limiting the files would fix the problem, but we don't know the capacity the team has or the roadmap they are pushing. I can't blame them for not fixing a bug like this TBH.

[@osku388]

It's really not. Understand that programs etc. have a ton of files so it's not something like 200,000 or likely even 2000 individual downloads. I personally have maybe a 100 items I have knowingly downloaded making for 18GB, 4000 items. A sizable 80GB game unzipped is likely tens of thousands of files. What is absurd is using a browser so technically limited in the year of our lord 2024 lol.. More so, Arc is proprietary and you have to make an account, like what even is that?

[@Alex_Cevi]

I just deleted 2 million files from my downloads last week 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@onedeadboy5680]

Agreed. The lack of data hygiene is atrocious. Having your data organized makes finding things easier for both you and potentially your software stack, depending on file list query methods. This dude's download folder is like Asmongold's room. Isn't that just the least bit embarrassing for a tech professional?

[@veqv]

Ah yes, doing an interview makes us journalists now.

[@Philipp..]

It's crazy to me that a browser that REQUIRES AN ACCOUNT to use got so far in the first place.

[@araozu]

How else are they going to monetize their billion users? I'm sure as hell a billion users won't pay $10 a month, selling data is the only way 😂

[@veryCreativeName0001-zv1ir]

it's actually okay, I kind of understand it's a privacy issue most people who i know used arc used it for productivity/work exclusively

[@adamherman5859]

creating an ACCOUNT?? absolutely unacceptable

[@omduggineni]

I mean, 90% of users use an account with their regular browser anyways.

[@phillipanselmo8540]

using a Google account on Chrome after Google built up their internet monopoly for over one decade is a very different scenario​@@omduggineni

[@Szergej33]

I will never use a browser that doesn't work on my programming laptop (mac) and on my gaming pc (windows). Arc on Windows is still rough, and it's never gonna improve I'm not gonna use it.

[@uchennaofoma4624]

Have you tried Vivaldi

[@DreadDeimos]

The response about "you're less than 0.1% so we won't work for you" is why I don't usually consider using software that doesn't target Linux.

[@ufffd]

and vice versa

[@DmytroZharii]

Hi Theo! I’m a huge fan, and I just want to start by thanking you for all your videos -- they’ve been both entertaining and super educational for me! I appreciate this video too, but I wanted to share some thoughts. It feels like, in this one, your feedback might be coming off a bit strong, almost as if you’re steering the CEO in a direction they might not want to take. It’s almost like you’re stepping into “founder mode” on a product that isn’t your own. Don’t get me wrong; you’ve raised great points -- I even tried Arc because of your recommendation! But in this video, the approach feels a bit too pushy. Thanks for listening, and keep up the awesome work!

[@ZahinAzmayeen]

theo: *leaks a dm* also theo: I don't leak dms

[@Slaughter327]

theo is a tad cringe at times

[@spaceowl5957]

Dude this guy is creepy af, feels like he's craving attention or power or sth. Very strange behavior

[@aarijimam832]

I cannot imagine, life without Arc. Its an essential part of my workspace, I tried switching multiple times but I just can't at this point. I hope Zen can get to that place sometime soon.

[@uchennaofoma4624]

Have you tried Vivaldi

[@aasdwastaken]

​@@uchennaofoma4624 Honestly I have and even Zen works for me way better than Vivaldi could ever do.

[@guthrien]

@@uchennaofoma4624this is actually what feels like a better analog to me though I’m not using Linux. The update 7 finally made it click for me as a user that is closer to the Arc model.

[@wolfisraging]

Just move to zen browser, its not as perfect as arc ofc, but that's just true for now, considering that zen is open source, its a no brainer to switch to it.

[@____---__________--------_____]

idk for MacOS, but it's already way better than Arc for Windows

[@aculz]

you will desperate until you tried to watch video which needs DRM, like Netflix, amazon, etc. coz Zen isnt support that DRM

[@____---__________--------_____]

@@aculz then you just have to switch browsers (or better learn how to sail the sea 🏴‍☠)

[@ClariNerd]

@@aculz Then just don't use those services. Setup a Jellyfin server, and actually own the things you buy.

[@nm6x]

Theo’s ego needs a check

[@TheBswan]

You don't have to be here

[@nm6x]

@ I usually don’t mind it but when he starts acting like he’s the center of the earth and everyone should listen to him, then the dude is too much… this is not the Wordpress thing and even then some…

[@Mordecrox]

Hi Josh

[@codeChuck]

A feature not fixed in a year, that could be fixed in one day. How is that an ego? Are you a bot?

[@nm6x]

@@codeChuck that only show that you have never work on a massive project, sometimes you just can’t fix the most dumb things not for the lack of will but you just have other priorities. And not show empathy for some thing that happens in every large project is kind of a d*** move. BTW I’m also moving away from Arc, it just didn’t stuck. Still admire the people that dares to be great.

[@YoupTube]

Back to terminal based browsers it is

[@dyto2287]

Suckless surf? Anyone? I hope I am not the only one still using it 🙈

[@dronesflier7715]

@@dyto2287 i prefer links but surf is also acceptable

[@vaisakh_km]

​​@@dyto2287 sorry to say, but since luke smith went transented into his higher form of life, you are the only one left..

[@colin_actually]

hell yeah fire up Lynx

[@phillipanselmo8540]

w3m is still awesome to use to this day

[@KyzaMizu]

ArmCord got DMCA'd by ARM and had to rebrand. It's now called Legcord. This is not a joke.

[@twistdeads]

Thank you sir

[@bit0perator]

"Endless growth" paradigm that leads to a eventual product death once the rug pull occurs. As much as I love Arc, it's probably best to get off the ship now.

[@himmelkami3308]

what is bad move is that they wont call their arc 2.0 a new name. But instead just use the name for the new and kill the future of this current already great browser.

[@lmauro]

I dont think having everything in the Downloads folder is an edge case, maybe for power users, but the majority of people that I know have everything either on the Desktop or the Downloads folder.

[@cakar7700]

May the force be with you, Zen users!

[@aasdwastaken]

Hell yeah!

[@northerncoder]

I don’t understand what arc is. It’s just rebranded chrome with a sidebar extension that doesn’t work on properly on many platforms. Who needs that.

[@MaxOut931]

@@northerncoder I can see how it looks like that, when you don’t use it, but for me it actually is more of a novel browsing experience. What I hate about my Chrome sessions is that I end up with 50+ tabs open, and this never happens to me on Arc.

[@admin5-valentino216]

Not a lot of people want horizontal bars (including me)

[@GeeGnebAb]

it's more than that, it's keyboard friendly, and it gives productivity boost when using it.

[@gro967]

It’s just for hipsters, no real benefits in using it…

[@MrAndreaGero]

@@GeeGnebAb the keybinding used by Arc is 90% of keybinding of other browsers...

[@kehrin]

TBH at first I didn't buy that Arc is on life-support, but I honestly can't remember when they last added a real feature (or what that feature was). It feels like the browser would be on another level if they didn't change their mind every month.

[@xbsidesx]

I learn to like you and I still do so I’m going to be de devils advocate a little bit. I think that calling a product “dead” when you have an edgy case must strike a nerve in anyone. I think you exaggerated and although I also agree with your concerns, I also think you acted emotionally.

[@xbsidesx]

Also, please consider other things than twitter. Bluesky looks good and isn’t ran by a bigot slime (or who runs matter less)

[@nikilk]

Hi Theo, how many people have that many files in their downloads folder ? If Josh says < 0.1 % of their user base experience this the engineering team is probably stretched to focus on it because it’s not as “impactful” to the wider user base. I’m not sure, if the negative publicity on the browser because of this incident is justified.

[@katrinabryce]

To be honest, most people don't ever clean out their downloads folder until they run out of space, or get a new computer. I have 24 items in mine right now. I will clean it up, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, but I think I'm unusual in keeping it so clean.

[@bomberfish77]

11:05 it's actually pretty funny since swiftui has a built-in mechanism (lazyvstack) to lazily load the data as you scroll

[@daniellyons6269]

It lazily loads the data, but it never unloads the data when the cells scroll off screen. So as you scroll the list gets more and more cells and slows down more.

[@LeroyCellador]

Zen browser is so good

[@schtormm]

To add to this: I've had a bug since like May where arc on Win11 just straight up blanks out the window randomly when I'm watching KZbin

[@nikkehtine]

For me on Win11 it has an ugly white strip at the top of the window, and the Windows version kinda sucks compared to the Mac version

[@idkcoder]

happens to me just went back to edge

[@XeZrunner]

The only good thing about Arc on Windows is that they brought SwiftUI to Windows. I hope they don't discontinue that effort, as despite the incompleteness of the Windows version of Arc, a polished SwiftUI experience on Windows would actually be really nice to have.

[@ThugLifeModafocah]

that's sad... I started using Arc because of you... I thought it was very interesting and ended up loving it.

[@thesunmusic]

I think you just convinced me to put absolutely everything in my download folder...lol

[@jesper.ordrup]

While the issues should be fixed no argue about I would definately move my unorganized sheize into a messy export folder. why make a bad thing worse?

[@aasdwastaken]

Maybe system files as well? That would be great, especially on windows

[@JamesMcCloskey]

Microsoft Edge is pretty damn good! Has a Sidebar, Verticle Tabs Switcher, Ability to pin History & Downloads & Etc, Screen Capture & Snipping Tool, and a lot more other features that are not in Google Chrome like Split Screen Mode.

[@nulano]

Yeah, I was disappointed when I wasn't allowed to install Vivaldi on my work laptop, but it turns out Edge now has almost all of the features that are the reason I use Vivaldi. I still use Vivaldi as on my personal devices as it doesn't have the Copilot bloatware nonsense, but Edge has really improved since it was first released!

[@hamm8934]

firefox has had a sidebar extension for over a decade too

[@JamesMcCloskey]

@@hamm8934 Google Chrome has sidebar extensions as well. So no real points for add-ons from my perspective. I don't really want to install an extension for every single missing feature I want, every time I setup a new system with a new web browser.

[@letmewatch.]

Edge is very good in terms of features, reliability and resource usage, but their implementation of workspace is such a joke (for me, at least), and their browser looks ugly for something I stare at most of my day. Zen is just doing everything right, they are still in beta but this is the first time I felt at home.

[@phpn99]

Josh is exuding the "I drank the VC Kool-Aid" vibe in that video. So he implies he's pivoting, but it's not in the way you're meant to pivot ; that is, to make what you sunk money and effort in, work out, for a new end-use case. He's lost love for his previous endeavour and he's now hot for something else. Maybe he drank from the Google playbook, but overall the net effect is the Muskian "I'm spoiled so I can do as I please". He's definitely free to do as he pleases, but there something unsightly about it.

[@mat.b.]

I dont know you (Theo) or your channel, I found this video by chance, but I do know Josh since I'm an Arc user who follows his updates. You're completely in the right here, and his attitude (combined with the arc 2.0 stuff) really soured me on his leadership of that company.

[@Chris_the_Nerd]

Also the fact that you don’t realize how shitty it is to have said that you think Arc is dead, knowing your reach, is crazy. That’s the thing Josh probably thinks you should regret saying because it comes off as you trying to deliver some sort of death blow to their company because they wouldn’t give you white glove treatment over a really niche issue.

[@Lewdiculous]

Theo shouldn't have said that, yeah... But I don't agree that the issue is that niche. It's a scenario that can happen pretty often, people just dump things in one place without thinking all the time. So both are at fault here.

[@zekehowey]

He wasn't expecting white glove treatment, he was just expecting them to follow up on promises that they made to him... instead they just started forwarding all of his complaints/questions to customer service.

[@trash_the_place]

This video isn't the reason why Arc is dead. The CEO made the decision

[@Chris_the_Nerd]

@ Sure Jan.

[@DivjotSingh]

Imagine fixing your issue with "lazily index" or "open easels by default" option a year back, making you happy and getting a free "mad respect to Arc team for fixing an issue" video and promotion. Even now they could've considered fixing it and giving a timeline to instill confidence that Arc isn't dead. If nothing at all it would excite everyone about their next product.

[@codeChuck]

I like how you think! That is VERY GOOD MINDSET! lazy index, virtualized list, pagination, filter top 100 items and show only them. The issue at hand is basically solved problem for a human beeing with even a little amount of brain cells :D But ARC choosed to not be competent, and show how really not ok they are.

[@marcelparvu931]

found zen browser from this channel and i love it, i personally use it with sideberry and containers

[@wojciech-kulik]

I noticed that they were fixing bugs only at the beginning, later nothing that I reported was fixed. And some things are crazy, like I reported multiple times that every single update wipes out my custom shortcuts -.- ...

[@cherubin7th]

Well, this is what you get with proprietary software. Begging is all you can do, like a servant.

[@dyto2287]

If people need to contact support regularly for browser then it means browser is shit. That literally does not exists on any other popular browser.

[@lightechoes]

@@dyto2287 how do you know this, what you base this on, are you looking at helpdesks?

[@thatsalot3577]

funny how 90% people who say this can't fix a single bug in the open source repo. I've used a lot of broken open source stuff with so minimal support from everywhere to say, that nothing is perfect, even open source works as long as they keep getting funding or have good maintainers, vim is open source yet people had to beg, wordpress is open source and wp engine is being extorted for money, at the end of the day open source works because some big corporation is funding it for their own advantage.

[@Pandacier]

have you tried talking to GrapheneOS' creator?

[@christinwhite4876]

It’s nice you can even get them to respond to you, I never could. I left Arc a year ago and I’m so glad I did, this new product thing is just confirmation that that was the right choice.

[@gearboxworks]

Theo, Have not tried Arc nor was I planning on it; I try to avoid the "hot new thing" until it gains critical mass. Even so, the CEO's attacking response turns me off even more. And their announced change with their reason for change definitely calls into question ever trusting them again. THAT SAID, I think you are being unreasonable in your expectations regarding the ~/Downloads folder, unless you are saying that KZbinrs should be allowed to throw their weight around to get their pet peeves addressed. If the later was your point, then I will say you are probably correct, sadly, but that is not an ethical position and I generally would have assumed that would not be you. Seems like if you modify your workflow ever slightly you can resolve this issue for yourself. Create a ~/Exports folder and route everything you have been exporting to ~/Downloads there. Bada boom, bada bing, problem solved, or at least that would seem to be reasonable to me. And if you want everything you download to be in that folder, write a cron task to move files from ~/Downloads to ~/Exports. So you can solve this issue yourself. How is this not an appropriate solution to your workflow problems knowing that you cannot expect the world to always adjust to your every preference? This is a sincere question, not a rhetorical one.

[@kswof97]

Why would you change your workflow to get a niche feature in a browser to work?

[@gearboxworks]

@kswof97 - You would change your workflow when a niche feature in a browser you really want to use is causing you massive headaches by conflicting with your workflow and the vendor appears unresponsive to address your concern. Or not, and just enjoy the migraines and the ability to bitch about it. 🤷‍♂️

[@kswof97]

@ So change your workflow so you don’t have to change your workflow? Or - hear me out - use your personal relationship with the team to ask if they can help 🤷🏽‍♂️ and hope the ceo doesn’t get mad at you for having an opinion.

[@gearboxworks]

@kswof97 - Of course, use a personal relationship first, if you have one. But if that doesn't work out - and clearly it has not - then you can act like a petulant child about it, or you can adjust your workflow and get on with your life.

[@Lewdiculous]

Having a cluttered Downloads folder isn't an edge case at all, I don't know any non-technical user that bothers to organize what goes in there, some people just dump everything in one place like this. Options to control how it's indexed isn't an unreasonable request.

[@LadyColumbia]

Hi Theo, first time, long time, just wanted to let you know that I use Arc because I saw it in one of your videos, thought it looked cool and having been using it as my primary browser on Mac for about 6 months. Thanks for all your great work.

[@FlameForgedSoul]

1. Requires an account 2. Sub par Windows version with no support for the version with the highest userbase (Win10). 3. Throw a rock at random, hit a Chrome fork. This was never gonna be A Thing because monetizing browsers is never gonna be A Thing. Enjoy your minimal bug fixes and whatever AI Slop they're cobbling together to chase more VC money.

[@ibrahimsoukak437]

Honestly, if Safari had split screen tabs and keyboard shortcuts, I would never choose to use anything else.

[@don_heidi]

As someone using Arc on Windows, I don't have access to the feature and I empty my downloads folder regularly. Therefore, I can't qualify the value of that specific request to users. I can sympathize with the approach to deprioritize features whenever only a tiny fraction of my user base is profiting from said feature. However, you need to focus on the specific needs of edge case users and make that accessible to as many users as possible when you want to create something new. Also, communication should be clear. It is cute to sit down and tell people that you are building stuff and it can be whatever. But people don't necessarily trust cute. In my opinion, there are three questions that should be answered when introducing a new idea: why, what, and how. I share the notion, that The Browser Company is handling this part poorly and they are handling this Situation with Theo poorly. People need to be heard, seen, and reassured. The only thing that is quite harsh is claiming that Arc is dead but maybe I am too European to understand that rhetoric.

[@PomStas]

Hi! I know this might make me an outsider here, but I actually agree with Josh Miller regarding the issue you’re experiencing. I believe you’re dealing with an edge case, with nearly a terabyte of files in a single directory. I don’t quite understand why, knowing that only a tiny percentage of people are affected (under 0.1%, or even 1%), there’s still so much focus on this issue. It’s clearly not a priority task to fix, and I can see why. I realize it’s not my place to tell you how to manage space on your laptop, but if this issue is genuinely causing problems-freezing your laptop and being so bothersome-why not simply move the files and move on? Reorganizing your files would likely take less time than creating this video, and it would improve your browser experience and make the files more accessible. This way, you could wait for the issue to be resolved without irritation or frustration. Again, I completely agree that it’s an issue and should be addressed. But how quickly would you resolve a similar issue in your own project if it only affected around 1% of users, especially with a full year of tasks lined up? I’m not connected to Arc; I just enjoy your content and am surprised to see this level of frustration over the issue. And honestly, I wouldn’t want to trade off the high-quality content you usually produce for something like this. 💓💓💓

[@hrkljus]

There's no way that having a lot of files in downloads is an "extreme edge case issue"

[@nullid1492]

Most people clean up their downloads folder before it reaches 880GB.

[@sirpiggles9518]

I think having nearly a terabyte in it is an extreme edge case

[@Mordecrox]

​@@nullid1492who does that? It's called Download folder for a reason.

[@ruhedemfrieden]

@@sirpiggles9518 especially on macos lol

[@brandon9173]

Extremely well made video, especially the point to point out that they are no longer receptive to feedback. I don't understand how companies can receive feedback, and then never fix the issues brought to light. If the team was on it for a year, how is the bug still existent as they roll out new features? It literally makes no sense.

[@maxreuv]

I came to Arc through you, Theo, and it remains my default browser since, I do not feel sad, guess because I am in that 99.99% user base

[@plesalex100]

i subscribed to you becuase you showed me arc, i loved it, you got my subscribe and watched a lot of content from you since i installed arc.

[@Lohan_Guedes]

"where did I slander the team here?" - the content: I think that arc is actually dead.

[@uchennaofoma4624]

True 😂😂

[@jit-r5b]

I politely contacted their support (reported a bug) perhaps a dozen of times when you include a forward slash, it will try to open search as url. Crickets. No response. And it felt like it was becoming worse and worse in the recent months until I actually switched to Edge. Really missing the different sidebars but actually really happy to have gotten 5x like performance improvements.

[@TeleviseGuy]

My opinion is that the new future browser from TBC might be cool, but no web browser has ever implemented AI in a way that makes it as useful as just going to ChatGPT, and I doubt this one will do that either. If they abandon Arc completely, I'll just be using Vivaldi. I prefer Chromium, and I want a customized experience. I also prefer to have vertical tabs, and I don't really want to be using Edge. I also think Brave isn't as stable when it comes to loading websites.

[@JoshRath]

I switched to arc shortly after you showed it off on my mac, and then on Windows when I was able to. After I started noticing that they quit doing release note popups, saying it was better that way... to automatic updates... it became nothing more than vaporware. However, I LOVE the look and function of Arc... so I swapped to Zen. It's great.

[@maddada]

Microsoft Edge is actually really good now (I use beta for personal stuff and stable for work) Just need to disable some settings and disable everything in the new tab page. Their grouped vertical tabs and tab sleeping implementations are the best out of all of the browsers that I've tried. I can keep hundreds of tabs in tens of groups without issue.

[@bycello952]

Nice try diddy 😂

[@maddada]

@@bycello952 😂😂

[@techyguyaditya]

Well, AI-generated tab groups are like a big deal for me. And it's a very stable browser commonly used for de-googled chrome alternative (can still use ublock btw)

[@maddada]

@@techyguyaditya yes, and a lot more features. AI generated tab groups. Vertical and horizontal split screen. Efficiency mode. Co-pilot for free in the sidebar (+ other sidebar tools). Workspaces. Has a great android app with sync, and I can use extensions on the android app which is really useful (dark reader especially)

[@greatday19]

​@@maddadawhat's your experience been with the performance of workspaces? I started using them a few months ago as another way to organize my tabs/close what I'm not using, but i feel like that's significantly slowed down my computer...

[@rich_watched_something]

I started using Arc a fair while before I started watching you. Y ouve convinced me to try another browser. I always get the downloads folder thing

[@AlzyWelzy]

I prefer to use Firefox dev edition

[@e-dev9401]

Why that over librewolf/zen?

[@devilsposterboy]

damn near 1TB in the downloads is crazy 💀

[@monapizza6085]

I hate the elitist way they do Apple first. And then they put you on a fucking wait-list to be able to use the browser.

[@lassyishere]

I started to notice that the Arc on my Windows laptop was acting weird for a while now. As you said, I really used to love it. It was the best browser for me. I recently switched to Vivaldi since it also has that sidebar. It is kinda complicated (and a little annoying) but I am liking it so far.

[@Arma5666]

I use Firefox, it’s been very solid and fast. Why use proprietary stuff designed to collect data on users?

[@aasdwastaken]

Zen doesn't collect data as well and honestly, it's really feature packed. Try it!

[@mat.b.]

I took a while to get into Arc but at some point a couple years ago I forced myself to use it on my daily desktop and.....I fell in love with it. Moreover, I looked forward to the weekly updates, I felt the team was engaged and I loved looking at small tweaks and providing feedback. It, in a way, reminded me of Microsoft Edge, how I would give feedback to the devs and see changes, see improvements. I have been on the Stable release for a while now, I no longer look forward to updates, it just feels procedural and nothing is changing, evolving, or getting better. It's stagnant, and I hope it doesnt die like Edge.

[@boblol1465]

"propriatary browser, backed up by a very new corporation" how are you surprized its dead????

[@spunkyPL]

Every project I work on has its own space in Arc with its own icon and theme. Sometimes I have 3-4 active project. When project ends. I archive the space and convert it to a folder inside one general space. When I need I can convert it back to space. With this approach it's so easy to instantly switch the context. Now they want to kill it? Meh...

[@flamewingsonic]

At ~20:00: Who has only 200 files in the downloads folder anyway?

[@gro967]

Exactly!

[@kwwong5234]

As a engineer, I think we should have good file management practics... keep clearing downloaded stuff and rearrange it in managed folder instead of the download folder...

[@gro967]

@ downloads folder is for downloads 😁 Even if you have 20k of them. Sorting files into folders has been a bad practice for many years now and was superseded by a good search.

[@TroubleChute]

My download folder is huge I'm too lay to clean it. if a browser thinks this is abnormal they're just wrong 😂

[@Dorchwoods]

I've never used arc but I've heard a lot of great things. However, i have a slower macbook and a very large downloads folder, so i dont meet the appropriate specs to bother downloading it 🤣

[@Pensandoci9]

Arc didn't even try to monetize their product. It's wild they concluded there's no way to do so without even ONE attempt

[@Satya.N]

I'm here with 3,648 Files in my downloads folder, lol

[@mlathrom]

Their lack of commitment to Arc doesn’t give me hope for any future products.

[@TatharNuar]

Downloads: 22870 items, 853 folders, 25.7 GB

[@nanopi]

I don't like using file pickers to open files or save files. Second biggest issue with them is that if I ever changed directory, it uses that directory again in the future and future files would go there unless I change it back. Also, having to navigate to a different directory 10 times and waiting out the load times for each navigation step is an absolute chore, and I have a file manager open and I'm already staring at the file I am working with and can just drag-drop instantly. I can drag and drop from anywhere without affecting the save-as picker directory, as long as a website has implemented the drag-drop handling fully or at least doesn't require me to click a dressed up button that just opens a file picker. I can sometimes get around that and use drag-drop by making "input type=file" visible by usercss.

[@nanopi]

Directory navigation steps can be reduced by going to the address bar of the file manager, copy the path, then in the file picker, go to the address bar and paste the path and press enter. Windows still has at least two old file picker types (win9x layout and XP layout) and if you end up seeing one of those, you can paste the directory path as the file name and it will navigate to the directory path in one go.

[@nanopi]

I do use my Downloads folder for uploading one type of thing, my profile picture/avatar. On Discord, KZbin, X and many other sites, you edit your profile and your current picture has a camera or pencil overlay which you click to open a file picker. On Steam it's a separate fancy button to click. In all cases, the input type=file field is hidden away somewhere.

[@saber8387]

Zen browser 💪

[@delc82]

Yeah I was one of those Arc adopters because of your videos lol now I'm sad too

[@XyndraNerd]

They should open-source if they are killing it anyways

[@phpn99]

The codebase might be unsightly

[@alexh2665]

thats actually a rlly good point, i dont think theres harm in a browser being open source i feel like youd need it as a matter of fact. especially of youre a small development team and if you want this product to work well on platforms other than just mac, you should let ppl in the community step in

[@Disorrder]

I would like that

[@Louis-L186]

You already have an open-source Arc, it's called Zen

[@alexh2665]

@ I haven’t used zen but I see a lot of ppl recommending it over arc, how is it similar to arc

[@webluke]

I'm not a hipster so I never got why anyone wanted this browser. and it seems both Theo and the CEO are both emotional about this.

[@MaskedMuchacho07]

Is it just me thinking this or does theo just come of as entitled right now?😅

[@realitydesigners]

i seriously hope this video changes the browser company's mind. thanks theo

[@marloelefant7500]

Superhuman advertises with a particular feature: "See when people read your email". How did they implement this? Do they embed tracking cookies and JS in emails?

[@Tettoffensive]

Tracking image pixels

[@marloelefant7500]

​@@Tettoffensive So, it doesn't work for Thunderbird, right? Thunderbird purposefully does not automatically load content from third party websites.

[@Lewdiculous]

Nor does Proton Mail or the FairEmail app on Android, so yeah, these will just detect and block tracking images and also strip tracking from links if you want. I guess they will work for people just using the Gmail Web/App...

[@Tettoffensive]

@@marloelefant7500 probably not. There are various email clients, browsers and extensions to block it

[@Mokera52]

So I experimented with Arc a little, and it seems like the "Library" button saves the last section you had selected. So I could see it being everyone else's "Library" button opens to spaces or something. But on the fix side, why not just have it pull the first 20 or something items with and put a search bar on it.

[@Simiaaaa]

I agree with the fact that it should have been fixed. It's a problem. But i think you should clean up your download file or a least change the way you handle your export if that DOES bother you. It's not your responsibility to figure out how to fix it. But a year with this issue ? That's on you i guess

[@FlowCreators]

5:36 is a wild comment, I don't use email that much, so that perplexes me how it can add that much to your workflow.

[@tmerb]

Btw the pr theo gave wasnt free as it came under a condition-- fix the bug that literally affects me and only me out of all the users that use your product or else I make this video dogging your product. Brother, I've never in my life had 890gb in my downloads folder-- I've never seen ANYONE ever have that much in their downloads folder. Especially devs. I also would've never guessed a CEO/ builder of a STORAGE based co have this bad practices in storage organization. There is nothing journalistic about this take

[@MisterYonoFui]

I was embarrassed that people knew that I have so many files in the download section, but since Theo does it now I feel relieved...😅

[@lyovson]

Bro keeps a terabyte of stuff in downloads folder and complains.

[@rasibn]

Bro is a utuber

[@berhanxo]

he is an idiot

[@tedchirvasiu]

stuff ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@petergg9096]

that is still no reason why such a simple bug should exist

[@RealDUDization]

I use Arc as my main browser. I haven't been able to load my history for months. I just live with it.