There's A New Browser (That ISN'T Chrome Based)

[@rickdg]

By not using chromium, the project cultivates a culture of having to maintain its own thing. Otherwise, there’s a future where all browser are just adtech or waiting for adtech to find security/bug fixes. This project is mostly a preservation project for an open web.

[@ninocraft1]

real, thats why we need stuff like this, just in case

[@television9233]

I don't understand how Theo thinks it's perfectly okay that all but 1 working browsers are either controller by Google or Apple. In my opinion, one of the worst Theo take of 2024.

[@Luxalpa]

webkit? servo? gecko? why not maintain one of those?

[@testacals]

@@Luxalpa webkit is apple. Gecko is being mainted. Servo support is dropped by mozzila

[@TigreXspalterLP]

i dont get it. you seem to hype every ui library, which improves things in very minor ways, but you do a whole take down video of an ambitious browser project

[@senseicodes]

Excellent point.

[@xerox13ster]

Yeah because if this browser is successful he might actually have to develop pages that work with it, and any browser that isn't Blink makes more work for him.

[@senseicodes]

@@xerox13ster What are you even talking about

[@brentboymebob8754]

@@senseicodes They're referring to the idea that since this is a completely new browser engine, if it does gain traction in the mainstream (albeit this is a passion project), there will be more specific frontend code to write alongside Blink (Chromium), Gecko (Firefox), and WebKit (Safari).

[@mrbutish]

It's all about the 💰💰💰💰

[@RichardJActon]

09:05 - Completely backwards take. Browsers are Not standards they are Implementations of the various standards that make up the web. Fewer competing standards is generally better - up to a point. More implementations of any given standard is generally better up to a point. You don't really know how 'standard' a standard is until you implement it this reveals the ambiguities in the standard that may need fixing. It can help to spot issues in how others have chosen to implement the standard / tooling around it allowing for improvement. 18:45 - This is exactly why having new implementations of standards matters if the standards aren't good enough that you can design these components well enough to work work largely independently the standards are not doing a good enough job of describing the system. 45:36 - Completely missing the point again - the spec is worthless if you can't implement it! You don't know if you can implement it until you do - the value of the implementation is in validating the spec The point is some ways is not the browser it's the web standards and whether or not people are following them. If you can't implement a new browser from scratch you have bad standards that people are not actually using which means you have ceded control to whatever the dominant implementation is and you are stuck with an fragile unhealthy monolithic single point of failure that if ripe for abuse by whomever controls it. This was a frustrating watch seems like you kind of got the point by then end but still not why it's an important thing to do.

[@Rohinthas]

This was a very interesting comment to read, I couldnt articulate what bothered me, thanks!

[@sunderkeenin]

The "made for Chrome" web is a poison and has been fundamentally undermining the concept of the "open web" for years and it's so good to have a project offering the ability to articulate what that actually means. Firefox has been too well-established and has too many of the quirks already built-in to properly expose that.

[@Diamonddrake]

Exactly! Andreas found any issues with the spec when developing lady bird

[@kreuner11]

"Guys why is this piece of PRE-ALPHA software slow and buggy?"

[@Dekutard]

before y’all not watch the video and take these comments as gospel. he literally said “i get that performance comes later and this pre-alpha dev build will be slower.” 10:46 he also explained that it should probably not be this slow to begin with, and improving performance later would be tough as opposed to starting with something simple and quick, accumulating some slowdown, and then later fixing that. 11:35

[@Hyperboid]

*pre-pre-alpha

[@lememz]

This whole video just sounds like he's salty because of the "they/them" fiasco and just decided to nitpick on a dev build of a mostly hobbyist project lol

[@Dekutard]

@@lememz what fiasco

[@ahora1026]

@@lememz ye it sucks to watch a video of a butthurt soul and for 40 mins, nah

[@calimio6]

I don't care what theo says, building a new browser engine is a huge take. Good luck to the ladybird team

[@l4rkdono]

No Windows and based on Swift, good luck

[@DFsdf3443d]

"usually things start fast and then get slow" is such a front-end thing to say. Andreas even addressed this in one of this videos. Its actually the opposite for low level software. Things start off slow but then get faster over the years as optimizations are added.

[@SrIgort]

"Premature optimization is the source of all evil"

[@connorskudlarek8598]

It's not. It's just a gross misunderstanding of what starting fast and getting slow means to different people. There are 2 kinds of people: 1) people who think the 'start' is the first commit for the feature. 2) people who think the 'start' is before you do anything. Type 1 would find the following ridiculous: "When you start a new project, it's the fastest it will ever be. There is no code. Run the code, it takes 0ns to complete. Blazingly fast!" There isn't any code yet, so you haven't started. The baseline speed is not what it's running before you add the feature, it's how it runs after you first add the feature. But that's exactly how type 2 people think the phrase is meant. Every new feature is a compute task of some kind, so no matter what you add you are always starting at the fastest it will ever run. The baseline speed is before a new feature is added. And everything you add is only going to make it slower, so you're starting fast, get slower, then get faster (but not fastest) again.

[@DFsdf3443d]

@@connorskudlarek8598 this is a weird attempt at trying to justify what theo said, by claiming everything is actually the fastest it will ever be because if you change an implementation its a whole different thing and so cant be said to be faster than what it was before. By this logic we cant say anything is faster than anything. Obviously thats a stupid way to look at it. If two "things" achieve the same desired goal, but one implementation has an optimization in it that makes it faster, then it makes perfect sense to say that its faster. We generally constitute a "thing" by what it ends up achieving, not by how exactly it ends up achieving it.

[@connorskudlarek8598]

@@DFsdf3443d "this is a weird attempt at trying to justify what theo said" I don't agree. "by claiming everything is actually the fastest it will ever be because if you change an implementation its a whole different thing and so cant be said to be faster than what it was before." Not what I said. Try reading it once more and asking clarifying questions if you need. "By this logic we cant say anything is faster than anything. Obviously thats a stupid way to look at it. If two "things" achieve the same desired goal, but one implementation has an optimization in it that makes it faster, then it makes perfect sense to say that its faster. We generally constitute a "thing" by what it ends up achieving, not by how exactly it ends up achieving it." A point made without connecting to what I actually said.

[@connorskudlarek8598]

​@@DFsdf3443d some pre-emptive clarification for you: it's not about the speed of the feature, it's the fact the feature exists that your app gets slower. Your app is fast, you add a feature. It gets slower. You realize your app is too slow after you've added 10 features. You optimize the features to make it faster, but not as fast as when it didn't have 10 extra features. Start fast -> add features -> become slow -> optimize features -> become faster (but not as fast as you started).

[@jackevansevo]

Man who's never built a browser speaks confidently about the best way to build a browser.

[@chry003]

I don't know, but I found this video is like.. It kinda felt like he hate system devs, maybe it's just me?

[@mikopiko]

I feel like you just saw the Ladybird browser mentioned on some orange site before making a video about it. I am happy seeing the comment section disagreeing with you on this instead of swallowing it blindly, reading the comments is satisfying. This video was a misstake, if you only looked at it from another angle, you'd be hella excited about the project and honestly, find it impressive.

[@Requiem100500]

Theo using quantum trigonometry to make the worst possible takes again:

[@theroyalblackfridge]

Considering they are "targeting" an alpha release in 2 years, I'm surprised it can even render html

[@mikopiko]

Exactly, that fact that the browser was even able to render Github and Twitch was honestly impressive! How could Theo overlook that?

[@kreuner11]

The browser has been in development for 4-ish years so yeah

[@TheSuperBoyProject]

​@@mikopikobecause he can do it better obviously

[@soyunpark1203]

@@mikopiko I don't think he understands how much of a feat that is considering how early in development this project is. He is a web dev afterall

[@lolcat69]

@@TheSuperBoyProject don't think so tbh lol

[@Sound_.-Safari]

Read the comments and bailed at 7mins. Literally any new browser is so good for the ecosystem. We need to champion efforts like this

[@rycona9878]

I paused at 3:50 due to the gender grammar heat and read the comments to get a sense of the reaction, then bailed. Been back and forth on Theo for a while. I've watched maybe 10 vids, but after the regards here and another video where I don't remember anything about the video other than him saying other than "Duh. Obvious." on loop for most of it. I can handle some negative energy if there's a relatively grounded truth or decent opinion inside of it, but I've seen too much of otherwise from him to not seek out other supposed techophiles in this space. Best (hypothetical) case: he's making quick judgements and reacting to suit the algo, and even that's too much for me in this context... but it seems much more than that. This channel just isn't for me.

[@theairaccumulator7144]

@@rycona9878 lol HE is literally trying to push gender politics on the project and get them canceled but he is such a hypocrite

[@paatagigolashvili9551]

@@theairaccumulator7144 is he?there is nothing wrong about pointing out grammatical error,there is something wrong about getting political and defensive abut grammatical error

[@aixle3590]

​@@paatagigolashvili9551lol it is clearly dome in a way to invoke politics. The request title is gender neutral which is a bs way to title a grammar fix. Retarded take. He is retarded asw

[@the.helgard]

This could have been an interesting video contrasting Ladybird's current capabilities with Chromium, Firefox, and Safari with different showcase applications. This could have been an interesting video contrasting LibJS with V8, SpiderMonkey, JavaScriptCore, etc. You could have made some interesting content trying to break the browser in as many ways as possible for education / entertainment purposes. You could have had a thorough breakdown of how Ladybird functions under the hood by having a genuine discussion with one of the maintainers. Unfortunately, you produced a video with an agenda in mind. One that's not interested in how browsers function on a low level, or how vast the W3C specs are, but rather an agenda that's focussed on condescension, surface-level judgement, and deconstructive criticism. Throughout this video you've showcased that your opinion truly does not matter. You're so focussed on perception - how others perceive you, how you perceive others, what are and are not acceptable trains of thought, that you were incapable of producing quality software development orientated content. Theo, I suspect more and more of your videos will continue to perform poorly either in the like / dislike ratio, or in the view count, as more of your lack of skills in various domains, coupled with truly bad takes, come to light. Software developers are interested in videos that nurture creativity, that push boundaries, that journal explorations. You have never produced anything that is nearly as technically demanding as SerenityOS, Ladybird, or LibJS. Most of the time you simply regurgitate content produced by others instead of bringing something novel to the table. Do some homework. Freya Holmer, Sebastian Lague, and Daniel Shiffman produce content that fascinate and awe people without relying on virtue signalling as a crutch. Your gimmicks are running dry and the novelty has worn off.

[@irlshrek]

things do NOT start out fast and get slow...unless youre comparing the hello world version to the early version. the order is: Make it work -> make it right -> make it fast.

[@mikopiko]

Red Green Refactor

[@InfiniteQuest86]

Yeah exactly. This makes it seem like he's never programmed anything well.

[@merlumbien]

In my projects it’s normally like that: It’s fast. As i add features it gets slower and slower. In the end I make it faster.

[@krumbergify]

@@irlshrek Unless your program is ICQ or MSN ;)

[@connorskudlarek8598]

Things always start fast then get slower. You're starting at the wrong place in your process: Have working project -> add feature (fix broken feature) -> realize feature is wrong (make feature right) -> realize feature made things slow (speed things up) -> have working project (repeat) The start is not when making it work. That's when you slow the previously fast project down. The start is having a working project in the first place.

[@PixPMusic]

"the thing that makes the most money does the most good" is so untrue I just spit my drink

[@clarencejones4717]

This is basically all we needed to hear in this video. Tells me that he would prefer monopolies succeed and if that's his only feedback, I'm with the other guys.

[@wrux]

Judging a pre-alpha software project poorly is such a frontend dev mode

[@aberba]

Lol. These celebrities 😅

[@laden6675]

and complaining about politics of the project... wait before the project is finished before you try to destroy it

[@devilfriend]

More like a designer feedback mode.

[@mysterry2000]

Nah bro there are many frontend devs that are respectful and supportive regardless of their skill level compared to others. This is very much a Theo-end dev mode if anything

[@vantadaga]

Typical Theo

[@tjhyatt]

"because its hard you shouldn't do it" - Theo

[@poetryflynn3712]

He praised capitalism as a method to "give people what they want". You can tell his background - he's a CEO, of course he wants to make everything as easy as possible. When you start managing people, their paychecks, and who pays the company, unless you're a very special person, you want everything easier. It's exhausting to constantly talk and beg other people to get them to do what you want. When people become CEOs, they do not want to think about what their business is doing anymore. They grow this corrupting mindset of "it's not my problem, get someone who's smarter than me to do it." I'm not entirely blaming him or even saying his point is wrong. I am saying how managing people leads to the "not my problem, make it someone else's problem" mindset. He's stuck in the world of "time consuming means it costs money."

[@weeb3277]

"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but to prove Theo wrong." - John F. Kennedy

[@Dyils]

@@poetryflynn3712 Bro, this guy is obviously a boss from hell. Just watch this - /watch?v=LL01pLjcR5s Some examples of things he said in that video: 1. People who don't have their IDE auto-formatting their code are wasting his money apparently. 2. Using pre-commit hooks instead of CI is a fireable offense. He said this btw, just after he said he likes to allow his team to make mistakes so they can talk about it and improve For the record, I don't disagree that both of the above examples are things a dev should have a decent handle on. But he sounds so much like the type that would time your bathroom brakes... Or is it just me? Idk if this is American toxic work culture or if it's just him, but he sounds insane. Best part is the crazy eyes when he said "fireable offense". So meme-able.

[@1ycan-eu9ji]

@@poetryflynn3712 True but it's also true that even communist countries like China decided to make very hard projects like their new commercial plane (COMAC) using most of the parts from western parts that are proven, slowly replacing the parts. So while I like the project and the idea of reinventing everything, it's also concerning with a limited budget to do so

[@poetryflynn3712]

@@1ycan-eu9ji China isn't communist and admits themselves to be a Socialist Market Economy as per their updated constitution. I also don't see what anything you said has anything to do with what I said.

[@hicoop]

If I had a js framework for every bad Theo take, I’d be living in 2024

[@tato-chip7612]

People need to realize. Andreas started serenity OS as a project to break out of addiction. Same was also true for ladybird when he just wanted a browser for his project. He does it because he has fun doing it. I feel like the other stuff on foundation site is just flavoring.

[@celestinemachuca2339]

Based

[@reidond]

people liked the project so it got popular, with popularity often come haters...

[@astral6749]

TempleOS: Browser Edition

[@0xSLN]

​@@astral6749brutal 😂

[@eazypeazy8559]

what addiction? where i can read about that?

[@lcarsos]

You remember a month ago when we were talking about "don't drive by PR random repos trying to feel like you're contributing? Don't PR nit-picky README changes?" And now Theo's take is "look how innocent this little PR was, and the maintainers said no! Unbelievable!"

[@lachlantula]

breaking: pre-alpha product is not in a polished state. let's critique the f out of it and its performance!!

[@hansdietrich1496]

Also, I'm glad the devs go with the good software dev princible of "make it correct first, fast later", respecting "premature optimization is the root of all evil". Looks like someone still needs to learn this lesson.

[@andrewdunbar828]

This video is also in a pre-alpha state apparently.

[@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa420]

REAL

[@Dekutard]

before y’all not watch the video and take these comments as gospel. he literally said “i get that performance comes later and this pre-alpha dev build will be slower.” 10:46 he also explained that it should probably not be this slow to begin with, and improving performance later would be tough as opposed to starting with something simple and quick, accumulating some slowdown, and then later fixing that. 11:35

[@Dekutard]

@@hansdietrich1496i don’t know that they’re talking about performance optimization with that quote. i think it’s more about premature over-engineering. as theo said in the video, newer projects are typically simpler and faster, accumulate complexity and slow down a bit, at which point the bottlenecks can be addressed. 11:35 i think.

[@yeox1929]

Linux was made "Just For Fun" read the book!

[@lesterdarke]

Yeah GNU was created for the exact reasons Theo was saying, Linux was created so that Linus could learn how OS's work. It ended up that Linux just so happened to be the perfect Kernel for all the GNU components because HURD wasn't ready. So that is actually a good example of how sometimes doing something for the hell of it can have unexpected benefits. Realistically the put different wrappers around Chrome is pretty over-saturated as it is - so unlikely to meaningfully iterate. But with this we get some entirely new learning about browser building and who knows a component from it may end up being really useful.

[@lesterdarke]

FreeBSD just hobbyist? - yet it supplies core components of MacOS, PlayStation, lots of Routers and NAS....

[@SpragginsDesigns]

I believe building a web browser from the ground up is precisely what we need, and I am very grateful that these people are making it happen, regardless of how long it takes or how difficult it may be. I will certainly be contributing.

[@Inceptionxg]

Yeah I am not against that I am curious why people wanted a new browser??? I wanted to know that's all

[@SpragginsDesigns]

@@Inceptionxg Well, I don't think people are asking for it. But competition is always good for the market. Google dominating with Chrome is an issue for sure, so it definitely doesn't hurt to have a new type of browser. And if the innovation is good enough it would be better than Chromium browsers. But I don't think people were really asking for it, it's just something people would like to see but don't desperately need or anything. I know I've tried almost all the browsers and I am currently in Brave again. I like Zen Browser but not enough to switch over. I like Arc but the same thing.

[@pavelmares97]

I am starting to think your research is usually few seconds. What do you mean they don't know html/css? If you look, the image is positioned absolutely. So overflow can be intended and the image is dark + text white. No issue there.

[@FreeCodeArena]

Exactly. Just a few seconds in and I'm wondering what he means by "overflows text incorrectly" 😅. It could have been a design choice by the developers. I personally like it.

[@blueghost3649]

It looks really bad and comes off as intended behaviour

[@skryker]

In creative-land land there are no bugs, only features

[@onegamingmoose]

Gotta love ignoring the entire project to rant about some bug on something tangentially related. Not everything needs to be a product to be marketed

[@andrewdunbar828]

Very very few.

[@iotku]

Pre-alpha web browser making good strides in doing the "impossible" and making an engine from scratch. Fixes weren't accepted until meeting the code of conduct and their web page isnt 100% perfect so I guess we shouldn't even try. This stuff is cool and you're all embarassing if you call yourself a technolgist and think otherwise just because you're strawmanning people who are spending years of their time providing software for free. Maybe it'll not disrupt the whole browser market or whatever, but why shame people for making an interesting effort?

[@apresthus87]

It's very clear that you have never had the C mindset. That's a shame. There is a lot of great things that come from people that enjoy and want to build their own thing even though a similar thing already exists.

[@vantadaga]

He comes from cushy JS land

[@39strife]

in js if it's an npm package, you use it and dont even look at the source 🤫

[@lememz]

honestly C/C++ not having a package manager(one that isn't a third party mess that doesn't work half the time at least) is kind of a blessing for the language, I remember being absolutely horrified people were downloading entire libraries in JS just for left padding when the whole fiasco happened lol

[@billoday]

The Linux take is just clearly wrong. Linus from the jump said it was just for fun to see how to make a kernel, like minix

[@tauraamui]

My god you're such a front end dev and it shows.

[@irlshrek]

thats what he wants you to think. hes compensating for his insecurities by being overly critical and then achieving a double win by being able to hide behind "im just a frontend dev" while also inflating his ego about being good at it.

[@hamzasaleem2]

@kennyfully88he is not mocking ‘front end devs’ he is trying to make a point out of how the person in the video doesn’t use the correct ‘terminologies’ to explain things. Well maybe he is a backend dev himself, but yeah he is pissed off with some thing😂 or just jealous. Difficult to understand by just the name, let ‘it’ reply and get in a fued with me and i’ll tell you more lol

[@irlshrek]

@kennyfully88 nothing. Its just theo

[@sifatulrabbi]

you need to focus on the ui. unless you want ladybird to be a terminal browser for devs only.

[@Denominus]

Not using things built for other browsers isn’t some arbitrary line in the sand. It’s a choice to not use something that’s effectively controlled by another browser, making you vulnerable to the whims and choices of that browser.

[@brockstanford7608]

So click the "FORK" button and take full control of the 32 million lines of code that already work and do whatever the heck you want with it.

[@Dipj01]

​​@@brockstanford7608​ managing 32 mil loc long term is a huge additional responsibility. What's stopping someone else from saying "just fork another 32 mil loc project" and so on? Just because some work is available doesn't mean you must use it. No need to add additional dependencies unless it's Really really needed

[@nikkehtine]

@@brockstanford7608 Or you can make your own implementation instead of rummaging through someone else's huge codebase

[@MegaRandompoo]

@@brockstanford7608 exactly. These guys really are drawing an arbitrary line

[@SpikeTaunt]

​​@@brockstanford7608that's a dumb take, it's easier to build it from scratch than to try to maintain and change 32 million of lines Also considering that you would be forced to keep up with the patches from the main repo to close any vulnerabilities

[@papyrusrex7180]

Sometimes, you can be quite insightful. this was not one of those times. I actually watched the original live-stream and you were quite uninformed about the project as a whole: but never let facts get in the way of clicks, amiright! To dedicate over an hour to dunk on a project you clearly have no appreciation for, was at times, approaching maximum cringe...and all from the comfort of your lofty tower of having created a slightly less sh!t clone of S3. History is full of people who climbed that mountain for no other reason than because it was there. Similarly, some of the worlds greatest discovery have been the result of happy accidents. SerenityOS and Ladybird and both audacious and ambitious projects and I tip my hat to you all

[@pimpcatforthelols]

Apple started as a business guy convincing his nerdy friend that his hobby project of putting a cpu, keyboard and video composite output together had money making potential. If wozniak wasn't already designing stuff with the thoughts of the 6800 and Intel 8080, his Mac wouldn't exist. Fun fact on the competing standards home he made. Mac literally advertised itself as the new standard stopping the IBM compatable monopoly with the whole 1984 ad campaign. The Apple 2, Apple's break into the big leagues was also competing against two other machines to the point it was called the Trinity. If guys in garages doing hobby stuff and building random stuff just cause didn't exist, Google (the guys making his favourite browser) and KZbin would not exist. Flaming a pre-alpha for not using parts of browsers when those browsers are literally made by more advertising(Google) and recently switching to advertising(Firefox) companies was quite annoying, and pretty much why Firefox is becoming more controversial in the Linux space. Manifest v3 is a great example of what happens when a monopoly in web that wants advertising can do. I know I did this to myself by watching this video after seeing the comments but it still hurts.

[@calbch]

things start fast and get slow is such a react take

[@Caellyan]

In this case it is worth to reinvent everything because V8 development is controlled by Google, SpiderMonkey by Mozilla and JSCore by Apple. JS engine is just as important as a display engine for HTML, and they're both part of the web spec. I largely disagree w/ Theo this video... Even using Skia (Google owned) for drawing is a compromise so they could have a sane timeline, it would have to be replaced by something else as its development/features are driven mostly by Chrome requirements. It also has its own quirks and cases where it rasterizes incorrectly, which they're inheriting though this compromise. You can't just fork a browser and rewrite parts of it because you end up having to patch/hack around assumptions other parts of the code make. You get quicker to 60%, but getting to the goal is much slower and harder that way - tried both; speaking from experience.

[@Denominus]

Exactly, it’s more work, but they don’t want to adopt something that will prioritize and optimize for another browser.

[@Dipj01]

That "not reinventing the wheel" is exactly the mindset of a js developer (which Theo is). Npm installing and hacking together mountains of poorly made dependencies to make something barely functional. And yet ironically enough, it's the js devs that try reinventing the wheel with a new framework now and then.

[@kencho564]

@@Dipj01holy hell was this said perfectly

[@Nina-cd2eh]

But fundamentally there are a lot of "reinventions" or "reimplementations" that you can avoid, because of architecture choices. His point about long-term investment in something you don't know works is valid, and basically a primary concern when you want to make something that actually works, that actually competes on release and doesn't die of starvation like every other wishful project. Even if if someone wanted to make a game engine, they wouldn't start from scratch. They'd get large chunks of architecture pre-made, focus work on core architecture relevant to the project, even using independence layers when you want to design bespoke interfaces to avoid "hacks", and then refactor downwards towards those frameworks and libraries to make them leaner and more optimized for the goals of the project. Plus, with FOSS you don't have to worry about what Google does to the libraries you use, only about how you can maintain them, which for a browser project was a necessity either way. That's why using Skia was a generally good move, precisely so that their timeline is more sane. In the future, Skia can go, stay or be refactored and maintained.

[@Caellyan]

​@@Nina-cd2eh Browser and web spec are arguably even more complicated than game engines due to their broad scope. Writing a rasterizer from scratch requires 2/3 full time developers though, so I agree it's a good move.

[@NakamuraSatou]

standard != implementation Chromium is not a standard, it is an implementation of a web browser. I cannot believe people are defending that particular implementation when they ship with property binary and for that reason only works on mainstream platforms and pushing DRM for web. Not to mention manifest v3. Someone will actually be totally nuts if they are going to make a new standard that uses Lua as the scripting language, JSON as UI description, and TOML to theme it. But that's not what we are talking about isn't it?

[@mohammedgoder]

This video is a prime example of why web devs opinions don't matter. They use the technology that real programmers create but don't want people to advance said technology by remaking and improving the tech. They also keep the industry stagnant and slow down performance by not acknowledging the underlying hardware that software runs on.

[@mohammedgoder]

@@tbkswagg Fair enough; It's just hard to take web devs seriously when every web dev that I've heard/read an opinion from is just wrong. If you have a differing take to most web devs; this may be a sign to start making talking head videos of your own to skew the data in favor of good web devs.

[@riteshahlawat8709]

Avg theo vid: basically re-reading a blog post or ranting with an L take.

[@nikkehtine]

I'm a professional web dev myself and also had graphic design classes, and I legit have no idea what you mean with "text overflowing" and "not being very good with html and css" the website looks great

[@RandomGeometryDashStuff]

I think he means text overlapping images.

[@xerox13ster]

@@RandomGeometryDashStuff *nods* yup, theo doesn't like it when his peas touch his mashed potatoes.

[@RandomGeometryDashStuff]

@@xerox13sterwhat is "nods"?

[@InfinityN]

"Qt in general sucks" says the Javascript andy... holy hell.

[@reidond]

qt sucks so bad that it's used in every embedded project i've seen

[@MrSofazocker]

😂 damn this made me bursz out laughing, Nokia did everyone a solid here ​@@reidond

[@twenty-fifth420]

@@reidond Qt sucks so bad it powers my foss art application!

[@Hyperboid]

Qt sucks so bad it powers the entire KDE desktop environment even before it was open source

[@theairaccumulator7144]

To be honest it does suck pretty bad but the alternatives suck worse... so it ends up being the lesser evil but not necessarily good.

[@ISKLEMMI]

18:09 - "Oh, that's so Skia!" My brother in Christ, every Chromium browser uses Skia to render (nearly) everything, including text. lmao

[@d3stinYwOw]

He won't get it, lmao

[@paatagigolashvili9551]

@@d3stinYwOw @ISKLEMMI if everything is from ground up why are they using skia tho,why can't they build it from ground up,i it to hard? so is building browser,why can't they at least fork it?

[@d3stinYwOw]

@@paatagigolashvili9551 Depends how you look at it and granularity you want :)

[@chikinrasshu]

​@@paatagigolashvili9551they did build all from scratch, rendering included. But when the ladybird project separated from serenityOS, they relaxed their stance on no third party code, to only restrict code that implements specs. Audio, graphics and networking is third party now.

[@Ciborg085]

Bro, did you never build a browser from source ? wtf are you so suprised about that it takes 100% of your cpu

[@brentboymebob8754]

"Frontend developer learns what compiling is"

[@djenntt]

Who else thinks Theo should take a break from the internet 😅

[@Dev-fo8zt]

dude got but hurt first 5 min of video then proceeded to nit pick something in pre alpha

[@bobDotJS]

A permanent one

[@Inceptionxg]

Reinventing something from zero. Is that a first principal approach.

[@guilhermeCa]

About the initial discussion (he/they thing) I think Theo didn’t read it full, at the middle of the text he says that it is ok to create fixes like that, the problem is that one of their rules for contributing is to not mention political themes. That’s why the same exact fix as a Gramatical change got merged. Is just a rule, the guy mentioned the “neutral language” shit that he’s probably involved, in the PR.

[@Ifæn21]

Yeah, is funny that he says "it was not political until you y'all started writing essays about it", but clearly he didn't read all of the response. That's why is sometimes necessary to write long responses so everyone understand their reactions, sadly because of the length of the response they think they start "crying on twitter". Long responses are for you to read and understand every detail, not to be seen as an smartass or something.

[@rzvxa]

Theo's takes on low-level stuff are just all around L, and sadly it always has been

[@andrewrobinson2985]

Theo's head explodes the second anyone does anything he would have managed slightly differently. On this channel, there are 'opinions that align with theo's experience' and 'bad choices'. I don't know why people look up to him.

[@rzvxa]

@@andrewrobinson2985 Exactly, He always has strong takes, I don't know if it is a Dunning-Kruger effect or that's the strategy to get the clicks. After all, people usually think of the ones with the most opinions as knowledgeable. Don't get me wrong he's probably an awesome developer in his own field, But it doesn't mean you can instantaneously start coming up with opinions, You are not a generative AI, you can actually fact-check and think.

[@BigOrangeMan]

average typescript tommy doesnt know anything other than web

[@LloydDewolf]

What is an example of a low level take in this video that contributes to your reaction?

[@Ricalrax]

Is it necessarily bad to have a channel with strong opinions? I rather watch someone sharing their honest opinion rather than a people pleaser who panders to all sides, basically being neutral on everything thus being useless as a reference point

[@szirsp]

40:00 So why did Google reinvent the wheel then? Why did they develop Chrome from the ground up, when already existed an open source browser (Firefox)?

[@poetryflynn3712]

They did it because they had a specific plan in mind to reinvent the browser using a tab-based task manager for higher performance and more features.

[@benjaminkindle1841]

They forked Safari's engine. Which kind of proves that you could be free of the original companies influence if you fork a project.

[@Nina-cd2eh]

Google didn't reinvent the wheel. They forked an existing engine, and used their massive budget to turn it into an investment and business asset, which is now paying dividends for them.

[@therealdeathbeast]

​@@benjaminkindle1841 Theo hearting the only positive comment is pure comic 🤣

[@tomaszgora4353]

Wow not a single positive comment under this mess of a video 😂

[@vantadaga]

rightfully so

[@onegamingmoose]

Ladybird is not a product. It's a fun project to work on. Your example of building a car from scratch, surely as an engineer you look at that and think "that sounds like a fun project, if only I had a team of people to help make that happen" that's ladybird

[@WilsonXp]

Not sure why Theo approached this project with such hostility tbh. Were there preconceived notions before recording this segment? Idk. If the project says it's in pre-pre-alpha and its first hopeful alpha release is in 2026 then expectations should be set, no? The fact it can even read HTML is pretty damn impressive since remember ITS A BROWSER THEY'RE MAKING. More browsers and more importantly browsers engines being made are great. Competition is good, regardless of how Ladybird itself turns out. Let people create for the sake of creating. Odd video all around.

[@narsustv1331]

No hostility detected from my part, it seems that for most of people like you and people in the comments, seems like any light criticism is a sin. I find it childish to be butt hurt by what teo said.

[@testacals]

@@narsustv1331 Theo is the one mad over some PR bs.

[@dprophecyguy]

5 mins into the video all i can make up from this video is Theo trying to make another episode of "Kardashians for devs"

[@Tramontano_T]

15:31 nope, they forked out of serenity OS because they realized the task of writing a browser is as complicated as writing a full operating system. The development of serenity was completely overtaken by ladybird, so they were not having time to focus on other aspects of the OS other than the browser. Jeez, they made it very clear, how deep is your research?

[@alchemist_one]

How is Firefox a "nightmare"? I've been using it for the last 8 years and have found it to be great. It's ahead on performance for my use cases, is more standards-compliant and is much better for people who want privacy-focused and ad-blocking plugins. It's also WAYYY easier to reskin and customize. IMO Chrome is basically the equivalent of IIS and Firefox is Ubuntu.

[@alexeydmitrievich5970]

I am working with webrtc and there are a lot of quirks and slowdowns in firefox in my experience. Considering theo worked for twitch this may be one of the reasons.

[@ajar1000]

I remember when chrome got released, I was a firefox user before that and I continue to be now. I've never been tempted to switch.

[@ChristopherCricketWallace]

Theo, let them cook, bro. You just pulled the dev build--not a 1.0 release. They just said the release target (for non-normies) is in a long way away. Go easy on 'em. They're building in public.

[@muhwyndham]

Not even dev build. Pre alpha dev build. The dev wasnt even trying to have build step for prod, it's literally wip

[@narsustv1331]

Why all of you act like light criticism is a sin? pls chill Teo did not say anything outrageous.

[@devfakeplus]

dude is still hating on firefox, because some minor things nobody care

[@Jae77]

Been using Firefox, the experience has been great so far IMO. Idk what he dislikes about it.

[@SkyyySi]

​@@Jae77Firefox takes longer to implement new web "standards" - and by standards, I mean: things Google just decided to push without going through any standardization process.

[@wanarchives]

@@SkyyySi chrome just a ram hunger

[@mudi2000a]

I will always use Firefox because I don't want everything to be controlled by Google.

[@alastairleith8612]

I wish FireFox would implement macOS features like Text Replacement (which I use all day long) and native spelling engine. the FRs have been on their bug logging systems for an about a decade. there's a couple of other things that stop me using FF as a daily browser. Every time I have to write in it it makes me sick.

[@markusTegelane]

this browser isn't based on Chromium, it's just based

[@AROAH]

Any competition is good when literally every major browser besides Firefox and Safari is Chromium. The most unfortunate part is that it’ll do nothing to prevent JavaScript making every tab take up a gigabyte of RAM.

[@marcuss.abildskov7175]

Show me a website where JavaScript takes up even close to a GB of RAM.

[@timseguine2]

@@marcuss.abildskov7175 That's called hyperbole. But, I have my task manager open right now, and I have several tabs that are using over 100MB and a some over 300MB or 500MB. Not a clue what they are doing that needs so much RAM, but apparently something.

[@ninocraft1]

​@@marcuss.abildskov7175the one im currently building professionally (its government software)

[@Reydriel]

@@marcuss.abildskov7175 KZbin/Twitch livestreams

[@TolyaBogomolov]

@@marcuss.abildskov7175 you're already on this website. It happen to me once though

[@krumbergify]

I’m old enough to have discovered GNU/Linux when people talked about “Free software” and the values it brought in terms of freedom, community and privacy, not necessarily more features. It seems like Theo is more into the Open Source camp who only value Free Software if it is better than proprietary software in certain areas.

[@sadanyagci]

The point is not trusting code developed by an advertising company's monopoly of funding, specifically for their purposes. That does involve reinventing the wheel, because the current wheel keeps trying to track drivers.

[@guest7329]

you are talking like product manager, not programmer

[@abdullahomar9041]

Writing a web browser fully from scratch, sounds interesting and fun

[@AdroSlice]

I can't get over how petty it is that you personally attack the ladybird people over a website that doesn't adhere to your personal sense of aesthetics, just because of a completely unrelated issue...

[@aodhai]

“capitalism always serves the interest of people” theo what are you yapping about

[@harryweisner99x]

Theo was saying it was quite worrying that Figma couldn't be acquired by Adobe and also believed the EU's laws that limit AWS were bad for the industry until the prices went down lol. If he was British he'd be a Tory member and one of the ones who voted Liz Truss. (removed £45 billion from taxes which caused inflation and interest rates to soar, and the economy has still not recovered)

[@J-wm4ss]

that frustrates me lmao, how can you hand wave away the awful effects of advertising on anyone but facebook and google

[@RA-xx4mz]

He’s not wrong. Turns out the people just have shitty interests. People don’t make what people don’t buy.

[@sergeantromanovklov4378]

His not wrong, Marx said “ capitalism serves the interest of people, communism serves the necessities of people”

[@Nina-cd2eh]

​@@RA-xx4mz And that's why scammers and drug dealers make money. They sell a solution to an problem they convinced people have. Capitalism is great at selling solutions to problems it creates.

[@falxie_]

9:03 i don't think this xkcd comic is applicable given the standard for the web isn't a specific browser

[@hungrymusicwolf]

That's true, but you have to adapt your code to take into account different browsers as well (that used to be a major pain in the past or so I heard). So it still kind of applies.

[@falxie_]

​@@hungrymusicwolf i've been a professional web dev since 2018 so no worrying about internet explorer or anything like that. i've only had a handful of times i had to fix a browser-specific bug (mostly css). the ladybird team is helping improve the standards and if they conform to them it shouldn't contribute to the "multiple standards" problem.

[@kreuner11]

Yeah, the standardization community has put in great effort to have exactly one standard for the web to follow

[@pablogrant8803]

bro completely forgot about DRM disaster google tried pushing last year ☠

[@gbjbaanb]

and the advertising "keywords" thing that would have given them complete control of websites. Or the JpegXL issue where they tried to push their webp format exclusively. I guess there will many more until Chrome is the new IE6

[@Inceptionxg]

Any developers or Investor, entrepreneurs here????

[@Alticroo]

If a grammatical fix is in a PR with titles and description that pertain to gender dynamics ("this doesn't cater to just men", etc) like - you can't fault the maintainers who in their native tongue don't understand these. Contributors could just write "this is the grammatically appropriate pronoun to use in English as it generalizes an otherwise unknown actor" or something like that. I find it hard to believe that the language in the PR was chosen accidentally as it clearly broadcasts the intent ("outdate male specific language"

[@HolarMusic]

In Swedish ".. similarly to English, people are referred to by different pronouns: han (he) and hon (she)."

[@marcempunkt9737]

As someone who makes the same grammar mistakes in english, this take of Theo made me literally scream. NO WONDER THE PR TITLED "grammar mistakes" got merged. Shouldn't that be obvious even for english native speakers???

[@NorthernRealmJackal]

Best part is that it wasn't even a grammatical error. It's perfectly acceptable to pick a gender for your hypothetical programmer in English. Someone just didn't like the gender. In design-academia, we have this convention/tradition that pops up, where a hypothetical designer is always a "she" by default. I have never heard of anyone taking issue with this.

[@IdkMaybeShawn]

@@NorthernRealmJackal +1. I wouldn't even say "pick a gender". "He" has had a gender ambiguous usage for centuries. It's better than "they" which adds plural/singular ambiguity, which generally is a more semantically problematic form of ambiguity than gender ambiguity.

[@andybrice2711]

Yeah. I do think the documentation should use gender-neutral language. But I also think the title and description were politicized and preachy. So I can understand why the maintainers rejected them.

[@RyanLynch1]

i think you miss the point. Google owns Chrome, they pay 80% of Mozilla's revenue, and they famously pay Apple a LOT of money to be default. They want another option that's not controlled by Google. And having another reference implementation isn't such a bad idea.

[@IamRavara]

"capitalism does a good job of prioritizing people" I've actually spat my coffee all over my table

[@Whoami-b5c]

Theo gives me reverse imposter syndrome

[@sp3ctum]

The controversy highlighted in the beginning of the video brings up an interesting point about how the tone of the PR can affect the end result. The exact same diff gets rejected if it is perceived as annoying, but can be accepted if it's perceived as helpful and respectful.

[@o_q]

God i hate webdevs

[@JackBond1234]

The fact that the "grammar fixes" PR was merged shows what an apolitical change WOULD HAVE looked like. The criticism of "gender neutral" is valid, because there WAS a right way to do it, and ultimately the right way was enacted. Just because it was similar to the wrong way doesn't mean both approaches were apolitical.

[@brentboymebob8754]

I don't think the first PR had political intent though, I think it just came off like that considering the maintainers are not native English speakers, which isn't the fault of the maintainers either. I'd say a misconception occurred.

[@JackBond1234]

@@brentboymebob8754 The maintainers wrote perfectly correct grammar though. I don't know if the authors of the original PR knew they were taking political action, since many are so steeped in it, intentionally or otherwise, that they cease to imagine acting any other way, but it was political in the end.

[@television9233]

@@brentboymebob8754 The title of the first PR was definitely political, it specifically states "outdated".

[@aixle3590]

​@@brentboymebob8754it did

[@the-answer-is-42]

I wish this project the best. We need more competition in the browser engine space. Using Firefox right now and it's good and I like it, but another major reason is because I don't want Chromium based browsers to fully devour the web. It's a lot of work and all that, but I'm cheering for them. EDIT: I don't think the xkcd about standards is applicable here. They aren't making a new standard, the are making a browser engine which intends to follow the existing web standards.

[@Halfjera]

In this video - person who only creates for money critiques people creating for passion/ to satisfy their principles. L.

[@mohitkumar-jv2bx]

New day. New plethora of L takes from Theo

7:55 "Qt in general sucks"... I am neither a contributor nor in any way associated with Qt, but I know enough to know that just saying something like that in passing is fucking crazy. You definitely need more words to back that up. I don't know what those words would be, since it's not my mission to shit on successful projects, but you definitely need more words.

[@baummensch49]

Have not used it in a while but back then QT was awesome. The only thing that kinda sucked was the size of the libs. 500 Line App with 120mb Download size ...

[@ray73864]

To take your analogy further, what happens if you rely on a third party library for a 'block', and then they stop maintaining it a year or 2 later? Now you have a library in use which may be difficult to replace in the future, so you either have to maintain it yourself, or hope another one appears that can be easily plugged into where they previous one was. At least if you build all this crap yourself, you have total control over it, you can fix issues in it, not rely on an upstream maintainer to make fixes, etc... Sure it takes longer, but at least you aren't reliant on upstream.

[@haroonbak]

not to hate but why is this guy the face of js development

[@vantadaga]

Really shows you the kinds of people JS attracts

[@justahumanwithamask4089]

He's not

[@sarcasticdna]

who said he is?

[@muhwyndham]

Sorry, nitpicking a browser, made in good faith mind you, for rendering the web "wrong" all while they clearly said it's pre-alpha and expected alpha optimistically is in 2026, is absolutely cringe. This is bad content, Theo.

[@muhwyndham]

@@Ibbysz what makes it a bad idea? to what metrics? money? performance? usefulness? and so what if right now, ladybird renders github wrong and has bad performance? not allowing ppl doing it? dogpiling it? laughing that they tried it at all like theo here? today is the worst it will ever be, and right now it renders website, even if it's wrong. a year from now it can only be better, even if marginally. And then we have options now, regardless the source of the reason that options need to exists, it being exists is already net positive.

[@msclrhd]

@@Ibbysz How long was Chrome in development internally before it was released? Ladybird has only been in development for ~2 years and they have made huge progress.

[@warpspeedscp]

@@Ibbysz this is just as bad a take.

[@muhwyndham]

@@Ibbysz "modern software is just glorified excel sheet why bother" It's the same argument, see how ridiculous that is?

[@muhwyndham]

@@Ibbysz it is nice straw man, just like this vido

[@barqsking]

Chromium isn’t a standard, it’s a platform. Saying that everyone should just use one platform to make everything easier for front end dev work is not a great take

[@antoniosapostolou2907]

The moment I saw you judge a broswer/team by an AI generated Notebook picture, I knew this video is going to be an absolute waste of time

[@blinking_dodo]

Politics in tech is something that i'm tired of; stop mentioning it. You didn't even include the statement they made regarding this situation. This is a very bad intro in my opinion, please redo the research on this. :/

[@d3stinYwOw]

I bet he won't. It won't fit a narrative made in the video :)

[@DavidWMiller]

Agreed. I don't disagree with anything he said, but I was curious about a new browser, and 5 minutes in I'm getting a breakdown of politicized poor behaviour. Not what I'm interested in, not why I clicked the video, and my attention span gave out before I got to the content, so now I'm dropping a comment and moving on. 🤷‍♂

[@Inceptionxg]

So I would like to know the politics behind this???

[@aixle3590]

​@@DavidWMiller2genders

[@DavidWMiller]

@@aixle3590 This was months ago on a video I obviously didn't finish. I have no idea what you're on about.

[@deividxyz]

Andreas addressed this he/they thing and said that Ladybird and Serenity are a pure technical project and he will not accept commits that are to be considered ideologically based on the project. Also he stated that those changes will probably get merged if the author has more maturity in the project itself.

[@andybrice2711]

I can see both sides of that. I do think the documentation should use gender-neutral language. But those submissions did aapear to come with scolding and preachy comments attached.

[@narsustv1331]

Theo was right, singular they is objectively the correct grammatical way to refer to a person of unknown gender in English, this has nothing to do with political vision, he simply called out the controversy regarding the maintainer’s weird response to a valid grammatical fix within a PR

[@andybrice2711]

​@@narsustv1331 Yeah, but the person who submitted the correction did make it political with the description they attached to it. So I can understand why the maintainer wanted to keep behaviour like that out of the project.

[@narsustv1331]

@@andybrice2711 what are you talking about?. The tittle and description on the pr was fine and non political. The only people that would see "gender neutral" language as political is someone with a smooth brain, it's grammatically correct, and only the devs where the ones that overreacted, just like most center-right leaning folks.

[@narsustv1331]

​@@andybrice2711 in another interview Andreas said that he would handle the situation in a different way and not overreact to a simple pr

[@bjbboy71697]

LadyBird recently got hit with a huge wave of negative attention by an organized group of people with bad intentions trying to take the project down. It's a shame to see that it worked well enough for Theo to fall for it. Thought he was smarter than that.

[@Denominus]

I think that’s what happened here, which lead into an antagonistic mindset about the project from the start. Nitpicking apart irrelevant surface details, barely touching on anything technical, no mention of the significant progress that has already been made etc.

[@TheTigerus]

Starting video from "he vs they" is kinda weird. They are making browser, not changing english.

[@vantadaga]

He lives in California what do you expect

[@Zamaraw]

We expect tech overview, not his political vision 😕

[@sapphicgaze]

⁠​⁠@@Zamaraw I mean, theo was right, singular they is objectively the correct grammatical way to refer to a person of unknown gender in English, this has nothing to do with political vision, he simply called out the controversy regarding the maintainer’s weird response to a valid grammatical fix within a PR

[@narsustv1331]

It's clear the devs don't know english, nobody was trying to "change" english. People noted a grammatical error and the devs acted like childs, the only people that made it "political" where the devs.

[@skaruts]

@@sapphicgaze "they" is plural, not singular... How that became accepted as correct is beyond me. Many languages (including english) don't have neutral pronouns, and people just default to one, and no person in a right mind is ever upset by that. Because it's a complete non-issue.

[@SrIgort]

The grammar thing was never controversial, NEVER. Not until someone went out of their way to point it out a few days ago... on a PR from THREE YEARS ago. Honestly, I can't stand this nonsense. It's obvious what they're doing to poor Kling, and I don't like it.

[@kouoshi]

here we go misaka mikoto

[@user-lg4le8xr4s]

I heard about that last night and it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard related to coding in my entire life. I thought it was a joke at first. This is nothing more than some extreme stretching and twisting to pretend they've solved some conspiracy that doesn't exist. This reminds me of the time when that one kid tried to start the thing about the phrase "sanity check" being somehow offensive to people with mental health issues... which, as someone who's been institutionalized a dozen times for mental health issues, was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard related to coding in my entire life, at the time. I think this one might be #1 now. Some person trying to be offended on my behalf is infinitely more offensive than the thing itself could ever be.

[@MrSofazocker]

notice your correct use of 'they' here signifying a group of people rather than a single one. Changin he to they in a tooltip implies more than just "progressive language' but that the thing explained affects more than one iser, which is just factually incorrect. Even all EULA out there apart from a new disclaimer on top that they dont discriminate will use masculine writing throughout to keep a clear and concise language. 😂

[@briannhinton]

The wording though…

[@gbjbaanb]

@@user-lg4le8xr4s yeah, they're even upset that the github repo still has the main branch called "master". Seriously. They accused the dev of being a transphobe and human slavery! Its beyond insane because these children aren't getting their way, they're having an extreme tantrum.

[@LucasTowers__]

Software engineer here, and this is exactly the reason why i dont follow and really don't care about programming channels. Judging a pre-alpha is so low that talks from itself. Thanks god programming channels weren't a thing when linux born. Also: The dev behind serenityOS was really a gentleman responding to a PR request with changes on COMMENTS of a code, i would ignore at all.

[@LucasTowers__]

nvm, scrolled, it is front end, it explains *A LOT*.

[@avishjha4030]

Got to know Theo from watching Prime. But this guy has such awful takes. Cannot think outside his Frontend Andy perspective. Finally unsubbed.

[@avishjha4030]

He blocked me on Twitter. Lmao, what a joke.

[@narsustv1331]

Sir, this is not an airport, you don't need to announce your departure.

[@testacals]

@@narsustv1331 We will make into an airport

[@o_q]

@@narsustv1331 stole that one from reddit, didn't you?

[@ThePC007]

9:35 I actually really like skeuomorphic design, so that’s great. Admittedly, this is not the best implementation of it, but please. Not everything needs to be simplified and flattened into oblivion.

[@TOZA]

4:13 I may be controversial, but i agree with them, not you. Idk if there was some rules about sending requests, but I personally think its better to name it 'grammar issue' or fix or something, rather than 'gender fix' or something - its more accurate and tolerant for all. PS. I am not native speaker/writer.

[@nikkehtine]

but that's what it technically is - gendered language, which isn't proper English grammar used in professional environments, singular "they" has been the correct way for decades. The fact the maintainers are making it political for no reason just shows their biases.

[@sqlexp]

​@@nikkehtineThe word "they" is not singular. You've been indoctrinated.

[@tjb0607]

​@@sqlexpsingular they has been around longer than singular it

[@nehua6164]

​@@nikkehtine "They" for singular sounds dumb as hell if you aren't referring to a person in most languages.

[@The_channell_to_listen_music]

@@nikkehtine The fact that the guy who originally changed he to they not only fixed it incorrectly but also labeled it as a gender issue and told the maintainers "erm, not everyrone who uses the browser is a male" shows the their biases. Maintainers said they want nothing to do with politics, and the fact that the maintainers accepted that same grammar fix when it obviously wasn't political proves that.

[@marcempunkt9737]

Obviously the PR titled "Grammar mistakes" got merged because it was the first PR that explained the problem without being political though... Or am i dumb? Btw. I make the same mistakes because im not fluent in english

[@television9233]

Don't worry about it, it's not a grammatical mistake unless you look at writing newer than 2010.

[@onsearchfocus]

Despite what Theo said, the first PR was *totally* political. I respect the reviewers and Theo looks like a snowflake for bringing this up and distort what happened.

[@spicynoodle7419]

Qt sucks? You take that back, Mac fanboy!

[@bap9394]

ImGui ftw sry

[@velitasali]

Qt sucks though, especially its licenses.

[@hepticftw]

@@bap9394unfortunately no one implements it correctly so 90% of ImGui apps end up having awful dpi scaling on my 4K monitors

[@hepticftw]

@@velitasaliI mean it’s lgpl so you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as you aren’t statically linking

[@vaayuo]

We know gtk is way better, even Firefox decided to use it right? Lmao

[@lucasteo5015]

The best way to improve web is to drop js entirely

[@D.S69]

yes

[@SwampKryakwa]

Replace it with native HTMX support

[@ninocraft1]

​@@SwampKryakwatime to do another side project

[@theairaccumulator7144]

@@SwampKryakwa HTMX is worse than 100mb of JS. One of them is sane and one isn't.

[@snakedoc9533]

Interested to know what's wrong with Qt? I use PyQt6 on windows a bunch

[@ArnabJhaYT]

I'm teaching Qt on my KZbin channel, and i promise that it's really good for developing small-medium sized apps.

[@yehaa00]

​@@ArnabJhaYT Davinci Resolve?

[@ChristopherCricketWallace]

it's not based on React; so some people probably consider it cursed. SMH.

[@chaosmagican]

I never used it but it was always a pain to get it running/compiled. Like I'm not fond of the days where I had to make QT work in order to get a headless browser for CI, it's much less painful now without QT dependency. It was painful on Linux but it was triple that pain on macOS (or OS X it was then)

[@snakedoc9533]

@@chaosmagican Strange ive compiled tons of my Qt apps in windows, one terminal command and i have a .exe

[@djupstaten2328]

You don't use other browser code because you are writing your own browser. Why is that so bewildering?

[@neofox2526]

How is he not encouraging them to keep building from scratch especially since it can load fucking twitch chat ALREADY like hello??

[@m4rt_]

To be fair, the creator of the pr changing "he" to "they" could have phrased it to be more focused about the grammar being fixed, since the SerenityOS and Ladybird projects have it very clearly stated that there should be no politics at all in the discussion of the projects, so when they saw a PR that could be interpreted it as political they probably just denied it instantly without looking into it. It's not that it's politics they disagree with, it's that they don't want anything that could be interpreted as politics to be a part of the discussion.

[@NavjotGuitar]

it warms my heart to see all the people come together in the comments to shit on this guy

[@gronki1]

Not the first time Theo embarrasses himself and shows how delusional and lacking any ambition he is. but one of the more fun ones indeed

[@luuc]

Seeing as it got merged when it was about grammar fixes, it was indeed politics. And, like it or not, these seemingly nonsense things are currently politics and loaded with political intent in the current political landscape in the United States.

[@gbjbaanb]

It got way worse. They accused the dev of human slavery. The guy's right, stop these people coming in because they will derail everything and contribute nothing of value. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fojIlWyHhLCHg68

[@andybrice2711]

I can see both sides of that argument. I do think the documentation should use gender-neutral language. But the summaries did also seem preachy, critical, and unnecessarily politicized.

[@AQDuck]

14:08 for the "capitalism puts people first" comment

[@zeekjones1]

100% custom code is not a flex, but a hard practice. It is indeed reinventing the wheel, but lets them learn what intrinsically a 'wheel' is. I wish them the best, and hope they succeed.

[@volking1]

How is "Update outdated male-specific language" not politically charged? What does the "outdated" part mean here? What is it implying?

[@aviewerofu]

How come we have 30 minutes of video content for Theo to finally understand what the project is about and he made a video about it before knowing that or researching properly… seems more like a video made based on a prejudice that was set up based on some negative propaganda he heard… moreover mentioning what they should frame their vision as, is not something I’d consider as “criticism”… makes me wonder if this is supposed to be a technical video or just a review made by an end user (which shouldn’t be the case right now)

[@jogibear9988]

They had JIT, but removed it, cause of security concerns

[@theairaccumulator7144]

Seeing how many RCEs Chrome has had because of JIT bugs it's a wise choice. Those sorts of things are just too complicated for a team of mostly inexperienced devs to maintain.

[@jogibear9988]

and from where do you know they are inexperienced?