GW Fumbled the Leagues of Votann HARD

[@jaxxchang-weinberg4684]

Honestly the biggest fumble GW has done when it came to the LoV was that there where no Votann novels that came out with the box set in 9th. I would love more Capitalist Space Dwarves lore and stories but nope, here’s more Ultramarine novels

[@fishfingers4548]

The Rowboat has a lot to answer for. 'Bout time the pesky smurfs were fed to nids.

[@marcanderson6034]

The Votann are giant machines. Larger than anything else than titans. No we don’t need those models

[@fluffywolfo3663]

The novels are such a good way to get us interested in them too! Especially because you - yeah, you, the person reading this comment, _JIM_ - have questions and you'd like to see them play out in-series. How do they see humanity, what about a novel that puts them in conflict with the Admech or Inquisition, do they get along with the Space Wolves, what's the deal with stuff like New Catachan?

[@hpenvy1106]

DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE, BROTHA ⛏️??

[@jaxxchang-weinberg4684]

@@hpenvy1106 ROCK AND STONE!!!!

[@knightoforange7177]

Is it a coincidence that the edition that sees the elf faction rein supreme sees the dwarf faction wrought low? That's going in the book.

[@Rexx8492nd]

It's because they're short.

[@Cmdtheartist]

GW should stop using a Magic 8-Ball to make corporate decisions.

[@HappyNoob17YT]

That made my day.

[@youngtank4039]

How about we get rid of corporate altogether and someone buys gw and turns the company private.

[@secretname2670]

no can do, who will sue the fans for making fan-animations and fanart then?

[@HappyNoob17YT]

@@secretname2670 are they still doing that?

[@secretname2670]

@@HappyNoob17YT yes, the policy is still in full effect and GW would enforce it if they only knew how to use the internet. Guess who made exodite, guess why TTS died on the spot before the big finale. Guess why only fan content crafted actively is just chromatic rebranding of old official stuff without any creativity. GW done goof and they be big goof.

[@weshammer]

AGREED! I was flabbergasted that they didn't have a novel lined up ready to go with the launch and flabbergasted that so much time has gone by and we STILL don't have a votan novel. They haven't even shown up as a side character in any novels.

[@lolaharris1257]

Hi Wes

[@Technoanima]

Pretty sure they didn't expect the HYPE.

[@Spaced92]

Only a niche fan cares about that though. Eldar, Tau, Orkz, Tyranids, Necrons didn't launch with novels, just a codex. Most xenos still don't get thrown a bone when it comes to books as well. Necrons are the only ones that got a book that actually pumped the faction up.

[@weshammer]

@@Spaced92 true but at bare minimum they showed up as antagonists in books released around that time or were referenced by characters in the story. to date there is nothing like this for the votan. By all accounts they do not exists in universe outside of their codex.

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

I remember reading the the Leagues rules at the end of 9th, and thinking "WTF? This army literally punishes your opponent for playing the game."

[@gloomycrayon355]

“What if we made a faction who can build/upgrade mid battle? Na fuck you”

[@OneDapperFrog]

Yeah, they went to far with handing out tokens. Should've just given them out when one of your units die.

[@gunfrigginbelievable6092]

Had a game where I was losing badly but because I lost so many units he had so many tokens I wiped 5 units of Terminator/gravis bricks in one shooting phase with magna rails. Truly gross.

[@TheOther19]

They came out purposefully broken.. I'm willing to bet someone in charge of the rules and a hard on for the space dwarves. In all my years of 40k, never seen an army so broken on release. I refuse to play against them.. No one in my local area plays with or against them anymore. Our tournament banned them cause they were so OP

[@Kepora1]

LoV I everything people cry tau are but worse and with actual toughness and melee added.

[@ZK-sz8vs]

"oh no, we took away all the votanns rules and stats and now they suck, what do we do?" "just let them field twice as many dudes bro"

[@ARIES5342]

ALL WE WANTED was dwarves with lazers, bikers with axes, ancient elders in power armor IN SPACE!

[@TheKnightOfSmite]

AND GLYPHIDS!

[@LJD442]

I want more League lore! I think your frustration is very justified here. It's really sad how many of their unique aspects has been gutted so soon after their release.

[@Bnvnu]

don't worry, gav thrope is on it. The guy that murdered the aeldari

[@scrubgrunt5105]

@@Bnvnu 'Murdered the Aeldari'? can i have some context please? it sounds interesting

[@Bnvnu]

@@scrubgrunt5105 long story short, he's behind 90% of the eldar lore, and eldar players...do not like that. While he's good at world building, the combat aspect, not so much, as he believes them a dying race, and as such they cannot win, or at best have a phyric victory. But who would want to read books about your characters getting their behind kicked? That's why the third instalation of the ynnari trilogy got canceled, and the entire eldar species just became inexistant story wise afterwards (by that, i mean nothin lore and little, figurine wise), since the ynnari stole the main plot of the three other sub-faction and they then got guillotined. They're dead.

[@scrubgrunt5105]

@@Bnvnu thanks for answering! and thats horrible.... i just feel bad now for eldar players... :( Are the Dark eldar/Druhkari also treated like this?

[@Bnvnu]

@@scrubgrunt5105not as bad, they do have a few good books and are allowed to be successful here and there . One time they stole an STC that could cure "everything" and turned it into another torture instrument, just for the sake of winning a competition for vect

[@clan741]

I can only imagine GW won’t support this faction or have books written for them then when the Votan don’t get any popularity they will can the faction and go “well we tried to make the squats work again, they seem to just never be popular. Now don’t bother us about them.” Not saying thats what would happen, just it won’t surprise me.

[@xenon3990]

So they’re gonna resquat the squats?

[@travisjohnson622]

sad, cuz they did such a poor job. Theyre not even the squats. Toddler space marines dont count.

[@anthonyallmond3682]

@@travisjohnson622they honestly do just feel like short space marines with artillery did they have to give the faction bolters as an infantry weapon

GW at its finest, make terrible decision about faction, ruin it, pretty much dump them in a backroom to waste away, then claim it is the fans fault the faction isnt popular and making them money.

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

If they haven't done it with TS I doupt they do it to the squats😅

[@vulpecula297]

I'm pretty optimistic about their long term future. Even if it may be a few years, we will eventually see enough new models and lore to flesh them out. Also the tone clash of 40k imagery and Omori music is pretty funny.

[@judeblack4360]

I remember watching an Auspex Tactics video from around the release of the LoV where he showed that the Brokhyr Ironmaster could theoretically kill Guilliman twice in a single turn. To say that they were broken upon release is an understatement.

[@m3rasmus]

Really interesting videos recently that are like a perfect merge of lore and retrospect of models and real life stuff! Keep it up man, absolutely amazing content!

[@georgekerscher5355]

Ignore this, replying to the wrong comment If it's any consolation, the titled "One Million Years" necron short story coming out this December does feature Kin as the antagonists of the story

[@alessandro348]

My issue with LoV starts with the Squats. They had some cool lore and unique tech, but for the most part they were just a glorified abhuman IG regiment. Worship of the Emperor was ingrained in their ancestor veneration, AdMech didn't declare them hereteks (in fact there is a Squat Tech Priest model), they fight chaos Squats with their human Commissar. So now the LoV come in to give them a fresh start, as their own faction independent from the Imperium. They don't worship the God-Emperor. They commit extreme tech heresy in both their AI leaders and Iron Men companions, so this is basically a Golden/Dark Age of Technology human faction that didn't get wiped by the Cybernetic Revolt or Great Crusade. This is insanely cool, and very unique as a faction in the lore, not just rules/gameplay. GWs choice is to go "they do a really good job keeping it a secret you guys". So their miniature range is dragged right back down to glorified pseudo-Imperial army, now with stunted Space Wolves. This is a deliberate effort by GW to make it that way, they even had rules to fight together with armies like Sisters of Battle and BT. They should have embraced the DA tech aspect, and have the Votann lead the faction openly in spite of the Imperium. Very stupid LoV fans read this take and go "so you think Votann should be field-able?". My reply is "If the God-Emperor was a complete secret, you think the design of Imperial factions would remain unchanged?". Of course not, it is a core pillar of Imperium fluff and aesthetic.

[@bencox3641]

The Votann should have been Xenos, we already have too many human armies as is to begin with, and having a pseudo-Dark Age faction isn't helping.

[@georgekerscher5355]

11:19 That's not actually a rumor: Gav Thorpe is working on a Votann novel. He accidentally teased more than he should on his twitter account this year and we were able to get the title of a rough draft called "High Karl's" prior to him deleting it. The title is cut off, but it is explict that Thorpe is writing one of, if not the first Votann novel.

[@KurtKn1sp3l]

I am pretty sure that GW also said in a community article, that LoV novels are coming.

[@marrvynswillames4975]

​@@KurtKn1sp3lAmazon got an entry for a book by Nate Crowley (who made Twice Dead King) with the votann as antagonists

[@georgekerscher5355]

@@marrvynswillames4975 Not a book, that was the Necron dhort story One Million Years

[@georgekerscher5355]

@marrvynswillames4975 Not a book, since I believe you're talking about One Million Years. That's a short story following a Cryptek. But otherwise that is correct

[@KurtKn1sp3l]

@@georgekerscher5355 Tanks to you both.

[@MrAnihillator]

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." -GW motto

[@AidanMclaren]

"There can be no true despair without hope" -- Bane

[@flanbeau]

"I love to take punishment. Hit me hard, master. Here is my money, have a lot of it." -Every GW customer.

[@MrAnihillator]

@@flanbeau Half the hobby is complaining about the hobby. If they did everything right and had a pro-costumer approach, we wouldn't have something to complain about.

[@15TangerineUSAF]

It’s GW. Remember they added World Eaters at the end of 9th then immediately announced that all the money spent on the codex, cards, new units ect is now wasted because we were making a new edition and will strip away all of the cool abilities of the army and Angron in particular but the free rules! Guys. Released a couple of rough drafts for like 2 units per army then proceeded to charge for a codex with the same artwork on some and the only difference being a unit (nids) that will be obsolete in a week. I want to play 40K but every time I get going they do something to make my time wasted.

[@UlfgarSOS_]

They are fucking cool and its a shame that they were treated this way Also we need more long beard for them

[@inthefade]

Yes. They changed too much from fantasy dwarves, which generally defeated the purpose of having space dwarves, but I could have forgiven it. But not having long beards is unforgivable.

[@Nuclear_Spider]

Yeah, was surprised when the roadmap for 10th came out and votann wasnt in the near-term. Hopefully Votann is up soon. Would love some lore

[@benlewis2130]

Sadly they'll be patched onto the end of this edition with maybe 1 new unit and will become the new admech

[@Ignisrex]

I am very annoyed that the kill team isn't its own unit, Votann really needs more unit and they didn't made it its own unit, meanwhile imperium gets so many killteams as their own units that we have any entire army just for them >:c

[@matthewlaxon828]

My only thing with that is that kasrkin and novitiates are very different units to preexisting squads. The squat kill team is just a warrior box

[@XD-sc4ix]

What do you mean? The leagues kill-team is it's own unit most of the leagues kill-team models are unique models

[@Ignisrex]

@@XD-sc4ix in 40k they aren't their own unit, I think 2 or maybe 3 of the salvagers equipment is listed as an option for standard hearthkyn squads

[@Ignisrex]

@@XD-sc4ix in 40k they aren't their own unit, I think 2 or maybe 3 of the salvagers equipment is listed as an option for standard hearthkyn squads

[@polarnorman4518]

I feel the same way about the heirotek unit for necrons. A bodyguard unit for crypteks would be SO rad

[@david7522]

I need more squat lore. I want a Ciaphus cain book where he has to team up with a space dwarf

[@JohnnyOrc]

Leagues of Votann: Good concept, botched execution.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

Looks at primaris with contempt.

[@carldooley9344]

At least Votann got to actually USE their 9th ed codex. My poor Guard...

[@drunkenastarte5243]

At least Guard had 3-4 months My poor WE's had what, 3-4 weeks? And 90% of our existing army roster was tossed in the flaming dumpster to boot.

[@weissraben4476]

@@drunkenastarte5243 I mean, WE and Guard were basically in the same boat in a competitive sense: they came out within a couple of weeks between one and the other for official play. The Guard codex had had a prerelease back in November, true enough, but GW had been very insistent that tournaments should not allow the new codex up to the full release (on January 28th 2023).

[@MagicE13]

This all really comes down to GW - 1: Being greedy by OPing the Dwarves to max sales knowing they would nerf them in the next addition. 2: Licencing everything they can to the point of having to come up with R-tarded names for every nut and bolt-gun...🙃 2: Having their pweshious spwace mawhines over shadowed. GW died as a table top battle simulator the day it removed Front, Side and Rear Armour from its tanks, also giving the mahrines anti-grav was a massive mistake for aesthetics. Also also when they stopped calling them Imperial Guard.

[@Manchu8169]

I would say the biggest problem with the LOV situation is that the company that can't update most of its other armies (some in over 20 YEARS!) thought it would be great to add another army! And mess that up by not even making a fleshed out one at that... But God forbid if they don't get their quota of 20 primaris lieutenants every year! don't add another army you're only gonna update if it happens to be that year's enemy for the space marines... We already have enough of those

[@elimcewen1607]

I love my votann! And I got them because I thought they were cool, and different also very versatile. But once 10th ed came around it felt like they sucked out everything I liked about the army except for the models themselves. Hopefully when their codex comes out, they get a full rework back into their unique glory. Rock and stone!

[@lartus8027]

For Karl!

[@theadeptuscustodian8157]

Legit one of my favourite factions, but like there’s no lore, no stories, and one named character

[@mrstopmotionpotion4636]

Same I just wish there was more

[@21526]

GW continues to forget that in a dice game, consistency is God. Mechanics like sisters fate dice, eldar fate dice, 9th edition Vottan grudge tokens etc are seemingly always undervalued in playtesting and then they act surprised when players break it in half.

[@wong40k42]

I see your grievances and can only think of one question from a certain meme of a certain cowboy waiting to be hanged: "First time?"

[@TheXenomorphwarrior]

Imagine being a fan of beastmen who have been around since the beginning, technically never gone away, and have only a single book that they have to share the protagonist spot light half the time in. (Beastgrave)

[@dakotawharton]

And now they got squatted back to the old world

[@ladiesman777777]

That's a lot of Grudges against GW, making this video lore accurate!

[@side1981]

I wonder if LoV would be a thing if Deep Rock Galactic hadn't figured out space dwarves for GM.

[@DeathBy_Chair]

Fun fact: My first time playing 40k IRL was against Votann twice in a row at a tournament for 9th edition. Luckily my opponents were very cool dudes and fate has let my CSM get payback since then but it is a crying shame we have so little for them. They are a genuinely fascinating army, ive since fought them about 8 times in 10th and im happy to report that after buffs they're fun to fight, i do not dread or picture a pub stomp when i see dwarves now. That second release wave better be big because the dwarves deserve so much more variety in what they bring to the table and lore.

[@Ghastly_Grinner]

Well the rule of GW is if its not a space marine or a primarch they dont give a shit about them sure they might release something but when it doesn't immediately sell as good as Space marines or heaven forbid over shadows the space marines too much it will be immediately nerfed into oblivion or completely forgotten about

[@kagglerock8115]

As an admech player, I can’t help but feel like I’ve taken interest in yet another potentially overcosted army with rules that change like the weather, usually for the worse.

[@deeperestmeme479]

It also makes me sad, they have so much potential but have gotten nothing besides a paragraph at most mentioning what their reaction is to the new events (like some people fighting an arc of omen or a group leaving when the nids showed up on a planet they were fighting for)

[@RSBurgener]

I'm with you. I don't have a personal connection to Votaann, but my Blood Angels and my Iron Warriors have definitely gotten the short end these past few years. I think a lot of us have. Definitely winners and losers with GW.

[@Cornerboy73]

I wouldn't give up on them. I think they have a lot of potential and everyone I know, including myself like their aesthetic. I am hopeful that in time the LoV grows with new miniatures that flesh out the range in a way that gives players more options in how to play them. More lore would be great too - not just in books, but video games too (i.e.: I see no reason why Darktide can't have a LoV character).

[@knyghtmordhaus9170]

LoV was the first faction I bought going into the hobby of 40k, given I was a dwarf fan in fantasy I promised myself that if they had a serious release on squats (since theyre too goofy for my taste) I would finally give in to playing 40k (all my friends only played 40k and none were interested in old world or AoS). By the time I actually finished painting and building my army, the first JT nerf kicked in, but it was needed given how busted we were on release. By the time I'm ready to play another game because my days opened up. 10e came out and I saw how this faction was being treated lore and gameplay wise. TBH I dont know if I want to go further into the 40k rabbit hole because of the lack of content for a newly released faction, it sometimes feel like LoV is just a one hit wonder and now its currently in the back burner, I want to think that when they release a new codex for us, it will rekindle my love for the idea of a faction of space dwarves but since there barely any content on us, it only remains an idea.

[@Roylevis]

welcome to the life of admech. Since i started admech in 2018- They were good for 6 months then nerfed to the ground and stayed garbage since then... thats almost 5 years.

[@CantusTropus]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Onepagerules makes Space Dwarf models too, not to mention Mantic's Forge Fathers line.

[@demon1103]

Using both to make my Space Dwarfs, as well as some from DenofImagination, McAngry minis, and Papsikel. Best part is they actually look like Dwarfs and not smaller Space Marines XD

[@theemissary1313]

I feel it's just GW being GW as they have been for years, they just stopped trying to even look like they cared. the release of 10th seems like the focus is on making maximum profit off new customers with little to no focus on game support or balance.

[@Nick_Whiskey]

they also changed the army from an elite army with high powered, high cost models to a guard style army but kept the high cost of the models. im so happy i 3d printed my votann army because i would have been FUCKING PISSED had i bought that army box only for the data cards and tokens to be immediately out of date and each unit become about half as weak without any point cost changes.

[@funkwolf]

I joined 40k with the release of Votann and I absolutely agree, I feel like they need more time in the oven in terms of gameplay and balance, also need more lore etc... 10th edition killed their flavor a lot and now it feels like they simply shoot hard and are a bit sturdy, that's it. Unfortunately they are in a weird spot right now but im sure they will get the love they deserve in the future, it just takes time.

[@N0TYALC]

“I joined this hobby incredibly recently compared to most of you. Let me explain the game’s problems to you.”

[@funkwolf]

@@N0TYALC sorry that ive done my research and need less time to learn games than you 🤷

[@EldritchThing]

Really like this more casual/informal styled video, enjoy your ‘rambling in the game store’ opinions. If I could add my 2 cents then I’d say you’re right in regards to next year having the potential to really boost the Votann faction, basically for all the reasons you’ve listed. From a marketing perspective it’d be pretty shoddy of GW to have hyped a new army, woopsy their rules, not bother buffing the kinks out and then just leave them to stagnate in the gutter and gimp themselves out of a product line. Might be a delusion but I’m hoping this stretch of ‘but where’s the Squats?’ is just the consequence of game designers going back to the blackboard

[@Tyrinath]

Outside looking in I can't imagine putting up with this level of commitment and having your physical plastic efforts "Invalidated" by a rule set change. Must be freeing to be a person who gives negative three shits about the tabletop game and just paints the minis. Me personally I just absorb surrounding media, all things considered this saves me a lot of money overall.

[@jeffers1985]

Squats just got the xeno treatment and yes I won't ever call them votann like Imperial guard and eldar. They may throw you a bone once in a while, but will not be heavily supported by the company since they ain't space marines

[@ravenRedwake]

Greyknights miss their daemon hammers and vanguard veterans have chain axes. It’s why I now count my VanVets as having grav pistols.

[@NateMcQuade]

Great video. Loved the way you ended it. You hit on some very salient points, all legit. I agree the utter lack of lore sucks, as did the brazen homogenization of all the of the faction's identity on the tabletop (all the fun beam mechanics, different weapon profiles etc.) But what galls the worst is that this is the same feeling of a complete lack of transparency about long term planning with the Leagues that GW seem to always embrace so hard. I'm biased against GW despite loving the IP, they're assclowns more often than not. But this case you've pointed out is especially egregious, considering the disrespect they showed the Squats once already. Guess we do hold grudges.

[@christopheraaron1255]

When 10th came out they stripped the awesome out of EVERY army. They can't be arsed to write a game, so they didn't. They just want you to buy models.

[@JCMiniPainting]

I hope when their first novel comes out, it's written entirely in their complicated runes type font, and the reader has to decipher it with a special legend hidden in the back of their codex that doesn't release until the end of the edition.

[@HeresySquat]

I’d love a gyrocopter, amech large heavy hitter and more lore. I’m still enjoying what we’ve had so far.

[@GPBlue-zl3sx]

Another missed opportunity. Capitalizing on Deep Rock Galactic hype - the 10th ed starter collection should have been Leagues vs Tyranids. You could release a trilogy of novels that talk about where the Squats have been this whole time, what happened to survivors of the planet that was nommed by the Nids twenty years ago, and you could show them off in the context of the new 10th ed. But no, we needed more space marines, so...

[@filamentio]

I fucking love them! I dont play 40k anymore (only 4edition) and i am a hardcore 3D Printer guy. But i have a complete Amry of them in original GW Plastic because i love the design so much :D

[@robingraves9517]

Squats have always been a cursed subject with GW ever since they were first brought out back in the Rogue Trader days. They were fumbled back then and of course, they were fumbled again. I dont expect them to be done justice period. Much less continued. Much like any mistake GW has made they will come up with some retcon. Maybe they all will get eaten by Tyranids again. I still remember back in the day when they brought in chaos squats,,then the next day they never existed.

[@meatman6603]

When I saw they were overpowered I knew that this was going to be somewhat of a repeat of what happened when the T’au were first released, but they got it even worse now. Now I’m worried that in the books (if they ever get them) they’ll get the T’au treatment even more and get clowned on by literally everything in lore despite supposedly being advanced tech wise. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had a random guardsman walk up and just rip the arm off an Einhyr Hearthguard.

[@CigarChompinSarge]

With regard to rules changes, this really sums up 40k in general the past couple editions. Every time I look at or hear about army rules, I just zone out, because it's all the same shit remixed. Very little feels special or unique.

[@giraton1]

Oh good, someone else is incredibly mad about the sword option for the Khal being missing, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S A LOADOUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE OUT OF THE BASE KIT NOT JUST THE LIMITED EDITION!!!

[@Keemperor40K]

The problem when the Votann first came in was that as the rules where back then, it was a Grudge Spam. A unit moved Grudge token, it fired Grudge token, it did and action Grudge token, it was fired upon Grudge token. It was a token palooza and the Votann had nothing to do, but be there and take advantage of the fact that the enemy was given debuffs for everything. This coupled with the tight ruling of the mechanics back then, meant that it was possible to stack 3 grudge tokens on certain units in turn one and eliminate them for absolutely no cost or difficulty to the Votann back then. This coupled with their armor dynamics that allowed no debuffs, meant that they countered a lot of rules of the game and so had a super buff over even Space Marines. This all made the army be extremely strong when it first came in, which necessitated the pre-release nerf, in order to bring this overpowered faction into some kind of balance. Even then it still came out as a powerful near insta-win army. This was until 10th edition launched and then the Nerf hammer hit with a vengeance and for a while the army was lacking on all fronts. The cohesion of the rules they had opened with was broken and their tools where not as effective as before and the Grudge token mechanic was significantly reworked. For a while they where effectively unplayable, but now they are in a much better spot (though nowhere near the levels of when they where first announced)

[@GalisSlipscale]

I always felt they should have gone with Necrons for the slow, resilient, short-ranged-shooting faction with some medium melee power after, because that's where the army feels like it heads sometimes. But that's neither here nor there. Honestly, I think the biggest fumble is how slow they've been to expand the range. Most armies have done some real 'identity searching' not long after their premier, and the flux in rules, well, it happens more for them than others. But they need things to put on the table. Votann met the bare minimum on launch - which is actually good, many armies begin life with less than that - but then just stalled out. They BADLY need options though and by now they should at least have some noticeably different alternatives to their current choices to open up some different ways to approach the table with the army. Definitely should have had another tank already, and something like a walker or monster-equivalent.

[@commonerknight8894]

I actually abandoned my votann collection early in 10th. Seeing the rollercoaster that LoV was since release… i had to get off. Traded for a MASSIVE lot.

[@inthefade]

They aren't dwarfy enough. If I had this army I would modify them to look much more dwarfy. Long beards, runes, cigars, kilts, and so on.

[@Ultr4l0f]

Something I miss is a bit more ... nordic/viking look. We already have a trillion dudes/dudettes with power armour. They have their own design. I dont hate it. But I dont love it either. The Grimnyr looks how I wanted the entire army to look

[@Optix334]

Reminder that the "Fix" was to just lower points so much that you flood the board, and now the win rate is just based on having too many bad units that you score more points than your opponent.

[@Beatle1283]

Warhammer miniatures are like being addicted to crack cocaine and by God your dealer GW knows that.

[@TheRealestBiggestM]

When they first came out and were way overtuned, we house ruled updated magna rail rules: the special damage only proc'ed if you auto wounded through Grudges, and they only did MWs and didn't spill over. It solved the problem almost completely.

[@mr.miniaturesmodels8465]

Wow… the parallels to the want of support units and nerfing of great abilities to the history of the Adepta Sororitas are striking.

[@jokerlover300]

Yea it’s a shame that when I started reading their rules at the end of 9th like there was a day between me reading the “current” rules and then me reading the changes for 10th. What a roller coaster that was

[@TOOTHBRUSHDUCK]

I think one issue they have inherently play wise, is that low range and slow is a very annoying combo. It does not feel good when most armies can kite or zone you out, and now that our shooting mostly sucks, you just feel miserable slugging across the board to throw wet wipes at the enemy

[@aharonswordofmagnus6721]

Hello TS player there along with Harle and Temspest. Wellcome to the family of the factions that got 1 big release and got forgotten ;_;. Be prepared to be tossed around with rules cos we just DONT have options in units...

[@I2dios8]

This seems to be the sad fate of a lot of armies. Daemons, Admech, Drukhari... at least Votann are good right now, albeit in a very unfun and bland way where you are basically just tossing +1 to hit and wound against any enemy unit that is remotely dangerous since you have so many of them.

[@capfig4471]

The models they made for them are great. They look great. The concept of them is great. For their status on the tabletop however, I can’t same i feel the same.

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

You should see if you can rope your online community into some kind of short story competition to generate Votann lit.

[@joey7563]

As a huge Votann fan, this video sums up absolutely everything I love and hate about the faction. We need some novels asap. Great video, you’ve earned a sub 👍

[@ishitrealbad3039]

as a new player who was looking into his first army, i was disapointed in how Votann was just the dwarf version of space marines. They don't look like dwarfs... like at all.... I was hoping for them to be more industrial, with mining gear or something or more tribal with runes and stuff. But they're just space marines 2.0...... Their grudge mechanic kinda sucks too because you have to keep track of each grudge.... They really feel half assed. So i started with CSM instead hahaah.

[@robrib2682]

I said it during the reveal on bigred's livestream chat, but man, they chose the WORST color scheme they had for the reveal. they went with the white and light blue one and my exact words were more or less "just attach white shrubs to the bottom of the bike's grav plates and its the scrubbing bubble of doom". So yeah, if they bungle the paint scheme for the reveal that badly I can see the unit list having issues

[@clinch4402]

Yeah it's not particularly striking. We've already got the off-white + sea-tone army in the form of genestealer cults, where it works to contrast the purple flesh

[@georgekerscher5355]

7:05 Something important to mention here is the only other bits of lore available at that time was the two parter Loremasters episode on Leagues of Votann on WarhammerTV/Warhammer+. What's particularly crazy is that there is lore exclusive to that two parter. The only reason we know Brokhyr can make Ironkin is because of that two parter

[@Visnulv]

Rock and Stone!

[@grothart2303]

I'd like some dispossessed Votann, something like slayers in fantasy, but all cyborged up with metal mohawks or something like that. also some flying vehicles because the little men need a lift from time to time.

[@brettmanus7904]

I don't care about Votann one way or another, but this WAS entertaining. As a CSM aficionado, I can understand. We've been getting porked in the butt cheeks since 5th edition when they cleaved our codex in twain and unleashed Matt Ward upon us. The army has been more bland than hard tack ever since. Do I exaggerate? The numbers don't lie. I counted in 9th. Marines had at least 102 datasheets! CSM had 44; 18 of which were characters. 😳 Not exactly a stunning display of army amazingness. Only about 5 of those were worth moose spit, and every time an update came out our shit got more expensive, while Marines' points went down and wargear became free. I feel you, Votann players.

[@duramatter4266]

I told myself I wouldn’t get into 40k until they added Dwarfs, two months later Votann came out. I just want to see more from this faction, they have a huge amount of potential

[@al3xand993]

I would tell you to get into Warhammer Fantasy buuut

[@duramatter4266]

@@al3xand993 I main the dwarves in Total War at least…

[@Erebus_the_trustworthy]

GW Fkin up? Dang, this water is wet.

[@ThexVaultxTech]

It's cathartic to see someone else talking about this. I wonder if they're going to soft retcon them by pulling the last of their support and never mentioning them again.

[@MrTrenttness]

🔥🎸🔥 I think the science fiction/tech esthetic for these space dwarfs is quite nice.

[@mannofdober873]

There's so much they could do with the Leagues. Imagine, a bigger Brokhyr Thunderkyn like a Dreadnought equivalent, give it drills and lasers and shit then bolt some big guns on it. More Hearthkyn. Make something like a crazy Lunar Lander flyer that's also a transport and has an ass-ton of sensors or guns. Artillery. ACTUAL FUCKING TANKS. Bet you we'll get exactly one character though. Just watch.

[@dankoz6340]

“Short-range army.” Got it.

[@pizzaflavoredh2o478]

I liked how they were a space marine level elite xenos faction. Now we’re a slower, less consistent, flexible, killy tau. I hate my dwarves hitting on 4+ base.

[@pompshuffle562]

Good news, we're finally getting a Votan novel next month. The High Kâhl's Oath

[@DaThingOnTheDoorstep]

I thought GW fumbled from day 1 by not giving them more beard.

[@hedless4788]

I just started 40k in the summer and was trying to research LoV and was finding next to no info on the in the last few weeks. What you said further cements the results of the research, especially having no novels.

[@randomusernameCallin]

As a Tau player, LoV came as the Tau but with GW caring about it. It got worse with the 10th and the terrible for the greater good.

[@brothertobias]

I have been bullied by 2nd Edition Terminators, 5th edition grey Knights and Eldar in... actually, Eldar in every single edition that has ever existed, but the Leagues of Votann on release were the most damaging thing Games Workshop have ever unleashed upon the playerbase. The army was not only blatantly broken and overtuned, they also insulted every preexisting codex by having all their rules, but better. 9th edition Votann had every ability in the game, just better and also ignored all of your armies rules. The damage done was so huge, I doubt a large part of the playerbase will ever forgive or forget them. I personally despised Votann more than most, but at least it was only a few months and they got fixed. Unlike Eldar, who get to be broken for 20 years without fail. For some reason.

[@ErikWarhammer]

They DID get SOME lore bits in Gallowfall... But yeah, I feel this is spot on.

[@sim.frischh9781]

No wonder the box was a mess, it didn´t have a 2 meter red haired adopted Dwarf named Carrot Ironfoundersson!

[@SpiralKingScorch]

"GW Fumbled [insert subject here] HARD" The curse that unites the fanbase

[@stefanw6665]

it kinda comes with having a bazillion factions around, adding 1-2 every edition. if they wanted to flesh out the roster from the start, everyone else would get an edition with minimal support. if you look at sororitas, it needed like 3 editions to relatively flesh them out with some things still missing. compared to that votann rnt having it too bad. not saying it doesnt suck for votann fans, ESPECIALLY when considering how abysmal their treatment in 10th was so far, just to put things into perspective. starting a new votann army with the xmas boxes and excited for whats to come.

This is not new and has been an issue since like 4th edition onwards, they play favorites with tournament favs, they ignore subfactions or nerf major factions then wonder why no one is buying them then ignore the faction because of the lack of popularity that they themselves caused.

[@xenon3990]

Tbh world eaters had it even worse, they came out in like December. Tenth dropped in march. The codex was invalid in like 3 months

[@flameendcyborgguy883]

I mean we have a knowledge of one short novel where they are antagonists to necrons( One MIllion Years), and in all honesty, one of the possibly unique things would be if the release would follow along and use the trailer hitch on Hekaton making rules for attaching other carts making it into sorta segmental titanical unit. In general, I really vibe with them, and although I do not have them all build yet, I still am very much happy with the faction vibe.

[@sweepauto]

Sounds like a pretty GW action. Make an expensive army, change the rules so fast that people feel it is not worth to play or invest time in the game in, make previous investments in books or models and almost immediate waste of money, then push new stuff that will be worthless in a week.

[@Mcdonaldrod75]

My biggest criticism is a stylistic one. Dwarves are the antithesis of Orks but should share the outlandish humor. There should be eye patches, weird haircuts, inventive and outlandish weapons ( like multi-melta trikes ). They are the survivors, on mining worlds and isolated regions, so they are a bit tropo, or should be. It could have been a fun army. Instead it's a bit meh. It's a game! They need more animal motifs, innovative gear and lore.

[@HumbleDirtMerchant]

Hey look, buddy. I’m an engineer. That means I’m engi-NEARING MY LIMIT!!