Ex-KGB Agent Explains What Putin is Doing (Jack Barsky Interview)

--Jack Barsky, retired and reformed undercover KGB agent and author of the book Deep Undercover: My Secret Life and Tangled Allegiances as a KGB Spy in America, joins David to discuss his career and understanding of Russia in the context of Russia's current invasion of Ukraine. Get the book: amzn.to/3zbrpWb
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Broadcast on July 26, 2022
#davidpakmanshow #russia #ukraine

[@freedomfirst5557]

“No one is paying attention to history “. Might be the greatest understatement of this century so far.

[@christinavuyk7875]

Yup 😐

[@kbanghart]

"it's very difficult for "people " en mass to "pay attention " to history, because events almost always happen to a small percentage of the population.

[@jeromesullivan4015]

Ain’t that the truth…

[@squadric7722]

oh we do....atleast the rest of the world.

[@kbanghart]

@Knavery that's part of it

[@persuasivebarrier2419]

Thanks for having Barsky on. Very informative.

[@jul3249]

Standard media giving us crap and then there’s David offering us stellar interviews like this 👌

[@richardkougasian7866]

Pbs newshour does a decent job in comparison to the network news broadcasts.

[@moreofawave]

standard media is owned by a couple of billionaires and they tell us what they want us to know.

[@Celisar1]

Ok, what facts exactly has the mainstream media given you that weren’t true and that David revealed?

[@jul3249]

@@Celisar1 you asking me? I didn’t say that specifically. I’m sure there are some examples, but that was not really my point. My point is David is bringing real helpful discussions to the table, way more so than mainstream media. We need “nobodies” whose name isn’t good for ratings but have intelligent takes on issues. But medias often prefer to have celebrities on. Of course not always, but generally, I find.

[@irelandishsac13]

Thank you David for bringing us this interview. I appreciate your channel and your views.

[@AinSoph73]

this guy speaks English better than half of the USA

[@markdrum2392]

His English skills are way ahead of Trump's

[@jaybee8862]

Lol it was his job to blend in... not stand out like an orangutan in a wig

[@Brandon_388]

@@markdrum2392 Biden can barely speak at all

[@michaelmartinez3674]

Uhhh let's not forget, he WAS a spy. 🤔

[@37Raffaella]

@@michaelmartinez3674 key word…WAS!!!

[@banjo2019]

Jack is a really cool guy with an amazing life story. He suffered a lot of sadness too as the cost of being a KGB illegal in the US. Great interview.

[@grandpachas1267]

Jack Barsky, thank you for your knowledge & insight.....bravo to you!

[@fishbone2921]

Great interview , very interesting. Thank you David.

[@Dennzer1]

👀👀

[@Seahorse0418]

I listened to the podcast about Jack Barsky about a month ago and I was blown away by his story. I watch David Parkman on KZbin. Two worlds colliding and I’m here for it. Big fans of both of you!

[@stephen3599]

The commemorative stamp was issued by Yushchenko as a last act on his way out of office on January 22, 2010. Not 2019

[@ivechang6720]

This is someone I would enjoy having a conversation with. Too bad I'm not likely to. I feel better knowing that someone like him is indeed out there. Thanks!

[@JosephNordenbrockartistraction]

When I served active duty under my president Carter in relative peace time, I was able to name each commander by rank in my chain of command up to the president and that was common among my peers in the infantry at least. Not every fort or unit runs the same in every state. As a medic I could attach to any MOS field unit in the USA. The Russian soldier hasn't a clue who's behind issuing the marching orders. That's got to suck balls to be used as a junk yard dog to go wreck shit and come back home with better shit.

[@gulfmarine8857]

Same here.

[@patricklarsh7063]

I was 32, I think when the wall came down. When Gorbachev was gone I had a feeling one day the USSR would want everything back some how

[@thathobbitlife]

I was barely alive when the wall came down but I can remember that same impression growing up. It seemed like anytime it was talked about there was always this air of "fixing the motherland" or rather "making the motherland whole again" and I can remember interview with Bush Sr on tv and how it felt like- not truly resolved. Idk. Interesting to think about. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that!

[@ep7121]

Im from the Baltics, Estonia. We have culturally 0% in common with Russians/slavs. Altho 50year occupation left some marks. We never were or will be part of Russia just that it’s clear.

[@julianmorrisco]

When people in the west, Americans mostly, were bleating on about how ‘we won the cold war’ it just filled me with foreboding. Imagine any country has a political collapse then its ex-enemies, now purported friends, are rubbing its face in it. Imagine that happening to the US! And the US, although nuts on many levels, is nowhere near as paranoid and conspiracy fuelled as Russia and the USSR before it. Resentments were inevitable, Russia has always been dysfunctional and toxic with a huge dose of exceptionalism and supremacism. Some wonderful people, art and literature have come out of Russia, sure, but it’s always been a nightmare for its population and it’s neighbours. We’re gonna have to deal with it, and soon. Before China (who also has serious issues) feels it can throw its weight around with impunity, we will need to solve the Russian ‘problem’.

[@jacktenrec472]

I was deluding myself into thinking that we can be friends, oh well....

[@mghuber1]

Interesting this guy is going on his tour now giving all kinds of interviews. One thing I'll add is that almost every European country has been invaded six ways from Sunday, Russia is the only one now acting like a third rate terrorist organization.

[@Morjensful]

whole eastern border of europe is like "yeah we understand your pain, but can you please stop invading us".

[@Ronnet]

While Russia has always been an oddball in club Europe, the way I look at it the major difference in attitude arose post-WW2. Where Russia came out as a winner while at the same time being a weakened nation. Where the rest of Europe had been thought humility and focused on rebuilding the economy through collaboration, Russia stood at it alone focusing in military might. In the end that focus did not pay out, the Sovjet union fell and it was Russia's time to learn humility. However, they didn't as their leaders kept up the propoganda of a great Russia. So it was a matter of time before they started believing their own lies.

[@peterfreeman1585]

@@Ronnet From Europe Believing their own lines Just like the USA

[@kylenolan2710]

It can be argued that Russia is not truly or wholly European in character. It seems to have always had a pervasive tendency towards extreme authoritarianism. The culture lacks the Western world's emphasis on the rights of the individual. Putin's favorite "philosopher" has written longingly for a Medieval society and he's very popular in Russia.

[@bowerbird7463]

Nothing is more nauseating than USA’s, God bless America, as if they’re special in the world. You’re not!!!

[@thathobbitlife]

Interesting stuff David, thanks so much for sharing it with everyone (not just members)!

[@cj.7979]

Good Interview. Very enlightening. My extended family is in Poland so this insight will help me planning in the long term. I still think militarily Ukraine wins this war. However, Russia will still be tossing missiles into Ukraine as long as Ukraine resists and until russias capability to launch missiles is degraded. I think Barsky is right that there will be no uprising. In my view Russian Disinformation and Cyberwarfare will not stop in the near future unless stopped. This reality should be getting people to think about Russia's agents attempting to influence BOTH political parties. The recent arrest of a Russian national using a local socialist party in Florida to spread disinformation. Is a case in point. We can always hope for the best, but its best to be on guard against disinformation crafted to erode support for Ukraine.

[@jimohara]

Not a chance Ukraine militarily wins this war. Not possible. What you mean is that they can win the peace with Western supporter but I’m giving a big fat nope to that too. Historically, Russia doesn’t start wars, it finishes them. Make no mistake, Russia didn’t start this conflict between them and Ukraine but they are 100% set on finishing it. And if that means nuking the US and the rest of ‘the West’ they’ll do it no matter the consequence. They are not bluffing. In their eyes, better destroy the world than give into it as it is. That’s the cold, hard facts.

[@dianedavidson7977]

I just feel weak minded people buy bullshit. Disinformation is for people who don't want to live in reality but their delusions. We have American Politicians and TV pundants YT personalities spewing bullshit. I'm sorry I'm older I didn't come up with the internet it can be a toxic waste dump or you can use it for good to research different sources at the tip of your fingers. Of course all leaders of rich govts like to keep the masses dumbed down while here in America corporations run the Government they own these Corporate Politicians and these are the facts. As long as we're fighting amongst ourselves the wealthy in government remain in power and get more $$$. The US owns this we're always blaming outside forces for quite frankly our stupidity. We make our own selves look weak no other country does that to individual people who then turn into large groups of individual delusional people. Waiting at Dealy Plaza for JFK, believing Trump is president and crazier yet that he will take over any day now. It's a grift for the wealthy pushing the bullshit and as long as delusional people believe it they all get paid. Like Build the Wall funds Bannon stuck in his pockets and Trump pardoned him. You ask a Trumper it didn't happen fake news. Come on now these people are delusional and willfully ignorant. It's 25-30% of the country we should be ok.

[@jorgegonzalez-larramendi5491]

no bothsidism: that is sovinazi psych war: it is 90+% republican they are deeply penetrated

[@kiraalialeeonfairythegreenone]

C J. Thank you for your comment supporting Ukraine.🇺🇦💙💛

[@circleofshame]

Another excellent interview David, fascinating guest

[@MrBendylaw]

Really good interview. Thankful for the fact he called out the Russian people for their complicity in this; I hope everyone reading this will examine the world around them and consider... Ukraine, at this moment, is the greatest, strongest Democracy in the world, because they are resisting tyranny with every bit of will, intelligence, and might they possess. Slava Ukraini!

[@stevemcgowen]

This is why there have been mass deportations of Russians in some countries in central and Eastern Europe, and all visas denied and even residency visas revoked. They can't be trusted, since most Russians support Putler and the war against Ukraine...

[@MrBendylaw]

@@stevemcgowen Someone made the observation that after the breakup of the Soviet Union, some countries went to therapists, but Russia went to the opposite of a therapist: Putin.

[@stevemcgowen]

@@MrBendylaw I visited Russia quite a bit from 2000-2004. At the time there was a sense Russia was finally out of the Soviet Union's shadow and would Westernize and become like Europe. It seemed to be heading that way from everything I saw. Something started to change in 2003 and 2004 and has continually gone downhill since- the longer Putler had power. He is completely responsible for destroying Russia for the next few generations...

[@MrBendylaw]

@@stevemcgowen They seem, as a society, to have a need/willingness for dominance and gaslighting. I'm afraid they may be broken in that sense. If a country suffers under evil leaders for long enough, then I guess all the good people get weeded out, and the only people left to raise children are the complicit, the enablers, the morally bankrupt, etc.

[@Armed-Forever]

ukraine is far from a democracy 🤣

[@gafls3151]

Thank you for recording this interview

[@jimmyg6455]

Remember that while you can lead a Trumpublican to the facts you can't make them think! STOP the INSANITY! VOTE BLUE in 2022!

[@BlondieSL]

And then some more in 24! 😁👍🤞

[@camwyn256]

@@BlondieSL and don’t forget to vote in 23. Off year elections are when school boards and judges are voted on. Republicans vote every year, that’s how they took over and destroyed education

[@Donna-vh5ym]

No thanks. I've NEVER called myself neither Republican or democrat, but I voted for what I thought the best one for the job was (or the lesser of two evils) and I knew Biden was not up to the challenge. Trump for president 2024.

[@camwyn256]

@@Donna-vh5ym what did Trump do? He didn't get Mexico to pay for the wall. Biden negotiated a deal with Mexico for Mexico to pay $1.5 billion on border infrastructure. So what is it that makes Trump better than Biden? I've always been Independent, but from all I've seen, Biden is the lesser evil

[@Brandon_388]

@@Donna-vh5ym 👍🏽

[@garycarter6773]

Facinating. Thank you for this interview.

[@dariushilarious9082]

Great interview, Pac. Thanks so much for keeping us informed.

[@charvaka9526]

Fiona Hill and Julia Ioffe are two other knowledgeables about Russia. Both have recent interviews worth listening to.

[@lindakovacs7904]

You always bring the most interesting issues to discuss with the very involved questions you ask that are so critical for answers. ! Love your abilities and your constant quest for truth .

[@Seahorse0418]

I recommend the book, of course, but the Podcast “The Agent” was thoroughly fascinating and a great listen while working from home during Covid.

[@bluekarma6849]

Very interesting and very disheartening at the same time.I hope he’s wrong about a few things ,but it was informative.

[@alexandrawhitelock6195]

Absolutely fascinating! Have him on again…

[@johnrogers9481]

Fantastic! I am so much more informed on the war situation with this interview! Thank you.

[@wabisabi6875]

"He [Putin] is quite clearly embarked on a course of a one-man, one-party rule. This is extremely dangerous... It shows that there has been a great chauvinist Russian resentment ever since the events of 1989, a feeling that they are on the losing side, that they are becoming a victim country. This I think is incalculably dangerous." Christopher Hitchens, 2005.

[@jimohara]

Yeah, good riddance to Christopher Hitchens. His brother Peter goes over the same old shit even today

[@guitarandrums]

@@jimohara wow productive comment. What an astute and intelligent analysis of what Christopher hitchens said. Really added to the thread.

[@mitseraffej5812]

I believe Putin’s ultimate goal is to avenge the collapse of his beloved Soviet Union whom he blames primarily on the US. To this end Putin’s 2016 success installing his gimp in the White House was possibly his greatest display of genius, and it’s still paying dividends.

[@wabisabi6875]

@@mitseraffej5812 Agreed. The US is having a Constitutional crisis; it will take years to undo the damage Trump has done.

[@jimohara]

@@guitarandrums I kinda appreciate some of the positions Peter has taken in the past but he and Christopher were always living embodiments of curmudgeonly, sour resentment and bitterness at the way of the world. I always thought that negative outlook was a driving force behind Christopher’s alcoholism and Peter? Well, Peter would know a thing or too about victim mentality because that’s what he exudes. And, to advance the conversation, I think it’s fairly obvious that Russia is about to put the squeeze on European countries and the EU, not the US. They’ll only hurt the US by cracking that nut first and from the Russian perspective they are justified in do. The Global American Empire has to go according to them and they’re not the only country thinking that. Id say pretty much every country in S. America, Africa and Asia have got their fingers crossed that Russia prevails to some degree in this current conflict in Ukraine.

[@collectiveunconscious2876]

That was some genuine insight.

[@Qm-supply]

Incredible intel dump- some amazing insight and knowledge. Slava Ukraine!

[@VermontScaleCustoms]

"Nobody's paying attention to history" - the single greatest takeaway from the entire video and it couldn't be anymore correct.

[@macswanton9622]

His Vietnam reference had me thinking the same. Like Putin's sloggin around in Nixon's loafers about now

[@craiger2399]

I think the reasons he started with Ukraine are 1) Belarus and other countries may actually be ready to join Russia as soon as the timing is right, and so Ukraine is the only real resistant state. 2) Ports and transport. 3) Oil in the eastern oil fields. 4) Bread basket land.

[@louistournas120]

It is my understanding that there is a very large portion of russians in East Ukraine and there is a lot of friction between ukrainians and russians. So, the russians in East Ukraine took up arms and have been fighting Ukraine until the Malaysian airliner has hit and the fighting stopped. Ukraine wants to get out of the sphere of influence of Russia and get into the sphere of influence of the USA. There were plans to set up NATO stations in Ukraine. Russia did not like that. This piece of info seems to be never mentioned. Some years ago, NATO tried to setup shop in Poland and Russia warned them and so, Poland rejected NATO’s offer. In essence, the USA initiated the war and is unwilling to send soldiers and is unwilling to bomb Russian cities. Well, at least they are sending weapons to Ukraine. It is my understanding that Ukraine has a lot of natural gas, like you mentioned. It’s normal for Russia to worry about the USA entering Ukraine. We have to keep in mind that the USA is not really a christian nation. It is primarily a petrol nation. The USA does not like the current president of Venezuela. He does not sell to the USA. The USA did not like Sadam Hussein of Iraq. They had him replaced by a pro-USA government in order to get the petrol delivered to the USA. In the case of Iran, I think it was in the early 20 th century that the USA and England step foot in there and setup a government in order to get the petrol. Eventually, I think the next government won and they wanted to break up ties with the USA and so the USA setup a coup d’etat and had him replaced with a pro-USA person. By the 1970s, the iranian people turned against the king, he fled Iran never to return. Ayatola Khomemi which was in exile returned and took control of Iran and shutdown the petrol valves to USA. Also, the USA and other western nations seem to slowly be on the side of Armenia. Kharabagh-Artsakh has been Armenian lands for centuries and it is external forces that have depopulated the area and turkic tribes have arrived. When is the west going to declare those lands as part of historical Armenia? Probably never. Azerbaijan sells oil to them. Also, Zelinsky, the president of Ukraine has sent weapons to Azerbaijan and has openly congratulated Azerbaijan for taking portions of Kharabagh-Artsakh. Israel has sold a lot of drones to Azerbaijan, which is what helped them win the war of 2020.

[@brooksjoiner3789]

I listened to The Agent and that's how I became familiar with Jack. Loved the interview!

[@A_Chicago_Man]

Great interview!!! Thank you!

[@Metthos]

Extremely interesting to listen to Jack Barsky

[@mantashaft]

One thing I know about history is we will never stop making it, and too often the wrong kind

[@ThisIsF-dUp]

An idea: Let's add a fourth branch to our government called: THE PEOPLES BRANCH, and let's have this fourth branch allow people a full vote on all pending legislation. That way the politicians will have to pay attention to what we really want.

[@vinsanity40k]

well that's what the house of representatives is supposed to be. it shouldn't be a bunch of elites and career politicians. it was always supposed to be salt-of-the-earth common americans with no party and no re-elections. just rotating in and out for a single term and giving a voice to whatever their local district is. that's how it should have been anyway.

[@warlockpaladin2261]

All states should be single-district, with all seats at-large. This will end the gerrymandering and create more turnover with the membership.

[@MAgaSUXX]

Best interview I’ve ever seen we need to see more of this guy David

[@snai1971]

Very interesting interview, David! right now listening this man podcast ... fascinating

[@mrsmucha]

Excellent interview, David! I learned a lot.

[@polemius01]

Fascinating interview.

[@gwillis01]

Thank you for an informative video

[@braised44]

Jack's book.... Fascinating... Must read!

[@katbalu53]

Great show David. I will be reading this fascinating sounding book!

[@tomasvon8187]

This was very interesting, Thank you :)

[@erinthesystem9608]

I could listen to this guest all day. What he said in this interview alone was crucial to understanding what is actually happening in Ukraine (and it was all news to me). Thank you for featuring him!

[@jesperjensen1637]

It is true that they (Ukraine) issued a stamp to commemorate Stepan Bandera's 100th birthday - however it was in 2009 (as he was born in 1909) and not 2 years ago, as Jack Barsky claims. It may not be a big ordeal, but it is a fact.

[@seferinorino6951]

Was that during the pro-Russian government? That would be such a twist to the story

[@mghuber1]

I'm not sold on jack being 100% retired. Albeit, very subtle, he still pushes Kremlin talking points when he thinks he can not be obvious about it. I've seen other interviews where he did this more so.

[@kevinkanter2537]

@@seferinorino6951 attached an addendum to @Jesper Jensen in your thread -- Nope - disputed the 'election' of the pro-Russian president Yanukovych.....

[@meikgeik]

Based on my quick fact check of what he said about Stepan Bandera, the same could easily be said about the US. "The US has memorials to men who fought to preserve slavery. There are Nazi's in the US." Yea... true... but like, how much of the population? There are Nazi's/Bigots in every country with a large population and basic freedoms of speech. This part of the interview definitely made me pause and go down a rabbit hole. I wish David had the pre-knowledge to fact check that in real time, but there's no way he realistically could have prepared for that. Edit: Further, the situation is muddied just like it is in the US. Many of those who treat Bandera like a hero, support the fact that he was a rebel and nationalist fighting against larger powers for independence.. They claim he only supported Germany because he was forced to. Just think about how many good people in the US get tricked into voting against their interests, and it's easy to draw parallels here to understand how the radicalization takes place. I think it's highly disingenuous to try and legitimize any of Putins claims of de-nazification in Ukraine.

[@kjaime7030]

He's 100% right that nothing will change diplomatically in the next several months, no matter what. However, I think he's VERY wrong about how duped the Russian people are. I was a professor in Bulgaria for a year in the 1990s (and spent three weeks traveling through Ukraine in 2007), so I have an idea about what life was like there both during the Soviet control era and immediately afterward and I also know a lot about the formation and control of the mafia and its ties with new money (cell phones etc.) and the connection with the children of former intelligence officers. What he is missing as FORMER KGB and FORMER Soviet citizen is the amount of knowledge the public has from (1) satellite television; (2) the internet; and (3) mobile phones. I have argued for decades that the Berlin Wall didn't come down because of "strength" shown by Ronal Reagan--not at ALL--but because all the kids of the former Soviet leadership had HBO and MTV Europe. Anyone and everyone involved in theater and the arts were all working together to spread the truths. And now, three decades after I was there, this has all increased a hundredfold at least, if not a thousandfold. This dude is too old and too far removed from the culture to know or comprehend this.

[@VitriolicVermillion]

Yeah, we can't say that an entire people just don't know any better, but I mean... we have a similar situation here in the US. Sure, we don't have some single government-controlled state media apparatus, but we do have Fox News, OAN, Alex Jones, the "dark enlightenment" idiots, and we can see how much these are able to control discourse in certain key populations. It doesn't matter that 2/3 to 3/4 of us know better. All of our facts and logic do nothing to change the minds of these extremists. People looking in from outside treat us all like we're actively willing and able participants. "Look at the stupid Americans," say some Europeans, as they operate the EU border similarly to how we do, have anti-immigrant rhetoric like we do, begin to allow public programs to degrade in favor of privatization like we do, and disturbing signs and portents begin to show, warning of resurgent fascism without borders. As far as Soviet citizens having access to western media goes, what that means now is different from what it meant back then. There was an active propaganda war of ideology going on, and capitalism won it. Soviet people *wanted* to hear the news from outside the curtain. After the wall came down, the west decided we had reached the end of history and that neoliberalism was the decided ideology of the whole world, that we had won once and for all in the market of ideas, and that nothing would ever change this. We somehow failed to anticipate extreme nationalism and resurgent fascism, even as we buy into it ourselves -- probably because neither of those necessarily is a challenge to capital. What I'm saying here is that we can't underestimate how many Russians, for various reasons (they've been lied to in various ways by various people), actually want to hear what RT and Pravda have to say, and ignore the "liberal media" coming from outside. They want to share conspiracy junk on VKontakte or whatever, just like our boomers do on Facebook. We can't underestimate this, but we also, unfortunately, can't even estimate it in the first place. On the other hand, does it matter? How many misinformed Russians does it take to provide the Russian government with the appearance of a public-supported mandate? How many misinformed Americans did it take for Trump to act like he was supporting majority interests? In both cases, they acted without any real mandate, just the pretense of one. So that leaves the implicit question: Why are we asking in the first place? Are we looking to place blame? Are we looking to justify how sanctions affect regular civilians, particularly those at the bottom of the class hierarchy, because they "deserve it" due to their real or imagined support of the invasion? Are we trying to justify harsher measures in the future? Or are we just trying to put a salve on the American conscience? War isn't good, whether economic or military. Still, it is a better outcome that Ukraine remain free of Russian control than that they be conquered and occupied. It is a war that must be fought without surrender. Nothing justifies even a single death, though. It's just the thing that must happen.

[@glasgovipsolara]

I skied in Bulgaria for a week in 1984 - 85 near Smolyan. We were 2 guys in our early 20’s. The big hotel in the centre of town had a disco in the basement. We were spotted in the Q, westerners really stood out and we saw very few, and told to come forward. We found out the young locals in the Q were “special”. We took this to mean the kids of important people. Only red wine on sale and the music was knock-off Michael Jackson songs, perhaps in Russian(?), and other poor versions of western hits. They all danced though. Few red wines and I went to the DJ and told him I had cassettes of Bronski Beat, Frankie Goes to Hollywood etc in my room and he begged me to go get them. I did and I was really by now excited about getting up on the dance floor. When the DJ put his first choice from my cassettes on not a single person got up. This was the same for his next and next one after that. No one danced, not even me,I was too mystified by their reaction. When the DJ finally put a Bulgarian knock-off of a Whitney Houston track on they all enthusiastically returned to the dance floor. I struggle to figure out what was going on there and wonder if at some point eventually a dam burst and the youths love of western music and dancing and the DJ’s persistence forced change. But I have no difficulty remembering how well we were treated, even though every 5 minutes we were asked if we wanted to change money or sell our jeans, shoes, jacket etc., how friendly all of the people in the hotel were during the frequent black-outs and how damn good the near-empty slopes were where only vodka and half roast chickens were on sale. I imagine Bulgaria has changed immensely since then but feel sure the welcome would be as warm as before.

[@kevinkanter2537]

I also see the few on-the-street interviews in Russia now and the generational divide is amazing plus most who are asked about their source of news simply use VPN and access everywhere... but the question still remains do the youth of Russia have any 'political' activism or are they like much of the youth of the world simply trying to get a job, meet a nice person & live their lives? If so, nothing will change and the old men in the Kremlin will continue ruling. .... now, if their mothers got pissed because their sons & daughters were being callously killed --- I would have some hope then!!

[@glasgovipsolara]

@@kevinkanter2537 - the conscripts fighting for Putin in Ukraine are drawn from remote republics so as mothers in Moscow don’t have coffins returning there to them for all to see. The youth used twitter to fire up the Arab spring. Perhaps when the dam finally bursts in Russia it will be the young people on their phones who initiate it.

[@kevinkanter2537]

@@glasgovipsolara Your 1st sentence is probably the most horrific i have read stating the reality --- of the sacrifice of the poor and the young vs the entitled and the politically-connected upper class. I only hope that social media can be used to bring an active opposition to mobilize the end to this imperialistic inhumanity. Thanks for the reply.

[@sharcon3891]

Dear Mr. Putin: WHY would the West want Russia? It's too big, too cold, too underdeveloped. So it has a bit of oil. But oil is anathema now. It has a beautiful subway, though.

[@jimohara]

Because Russia has commodities that the West desires and/or needs. And, in case you don’t know, the West has ‘financial services’ that Russia doesn’t need. Hence the current situation.

[@markrobinowitz8473]

The idea "oil is anathema" is distraction from depletion. Oil makes everything work. Damned if we drill and damned if we stop. Solar is great (I've used it since 1990) but it would power a smaller, no growth, steady state society, not our overconsumption endless growth system. Sorry.

[@Elyon113]

Operation Cozy Bear and Operation Fancy Bear were successful beyond Putin's wildest dreams

[@ranjeet2117]

Thank you for the interview. It's important to note, though, that Stepan Bandera was a nationalist, not a nazi. Which is not hard to become when your nation is attacked from east and west, starved to death by expropriation of grain, your language and culture is banned etc. Regarding collaboration with Hitler, well, Stalin did the same thing when they divided Poland. To Srepan germans looked like an option to have as an ally against Russia at the time.

[@jenkem4464]

Yeah he lost the plot a bit on that tangent. It's like saying the US is a Nazi state because they had a few nationalists that weaseled their way into government running policy for a few years. (Stephan Miller, Steve Bannon, etc.) That doesn't mean America is a Nazi state therefore...justification for invasion.

[@cosmosofinfinity]

Love this guy, always love hearing him speak

[@ag4allgood]

That is a great insight into the Putin regime. Really good questions David. Slava Ukraine !

[@jerryclasby9628]

Love the comments here Very well stated Very informative concerning this excellent interview

[@ruxjelein4058]

Thank Jack for sharing

[@RogerZoul]

That podcast is fascinating!

[@zebel2day4]

Great interview, I've read Putin's "The New Tsar: The Rise and Reign of Vladimir Putin" By Steven Lee Myers and it states there what his goal is! Thanks

[@Eyagsf]

Amazing interview!

[@universeconsciouscitizensc592]

We have our own Putin wanna-bes in the US. Dictatorships and fascist regimes are obsolete, but there is a supply of selfish and spiritually stunted humans who want to live a fantasy of personal greatness like that. Putin is more pathetic than a homeless drug addict, and doesn't have a clue about greatness or destiny, but when one is blind to honor and insight, being a bully seems heroic.

[@AinSoph73]

There is a fascist regime attempting to win/usurp power in the US.

[@qjtvaddict]

You don’t realize how similar the USA is to Russia if you did your focus would be on purging the uneducated

[@warrengardner]

That was a really interesting interview!

[@TeachinTV]

"Jack Barsky" (I'm SURE it's a nom de plume) is brilliant. Well read, well travelled, analytical, multi-lingual, tinged with a soupçon of humor and a pianist. Glad he's on OUR side of the Atlantic.

[@jacquestrudel6655]

Thank you

[@johnclagett3222]

Thanks!

[@JA-qi1fb]

Very good interview. I subscribe to The Agent podcast & will buy me a copy of Barsky's book.

[@brucekellogg8288]

I apprecuated this share, and, I was also biased a bit due to the fact that at one time, this man was an agent against the US.

[@Nembula]

This is a great guest. More of him please. His view on the China/Russia relationship.

[@myboloneyhasafirstname6764]

Great show. Sounds like a good book.

[@freedomfirst5557]

Open the DSMV to the Psychopathic narcissism conditions and it will tell you everything you need to know about trump and Putin and their plans

[@JabberWokey]

I’m a 45-year-old Indian who grew up with all heavy engineering in India built by the soviets, Russian story books, and never really understanding why they were split into Latvian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian tales. At one point, older Indians used to understand and had this kinship with Russia. Nixon in fact sent the seventh fleet in 1971 to help the genocidal Pakistanis in their war against Bangladesh where they had already massacred a million civilians. Only the Russians came to our help. We remember. Even then, Russians always came off to me a grumpy but trustworthy bears who’ll have your back. I can only feel sadness for the Russian people.

[@jacktenrec472]

Bandera is celebrated in Ukraine as a hero because he fought for the right of independent Ukraine to exist

[@svdgnl]

Yes, I don't think Winston Churchill is honoured because he was a racist. Bit of the same thing.

[@i.ehrenfest349]

All the same, there should have been more backlash against his rabid antisemitism

[@simontemplar404]

@@i.ehrenfest349 Most of the west was also antisemitic in parts. A lot of conspiracy nutters still claim that Jewish people "run the world". It is the archetype of rejection of minorities as evidenced by Shakespeare's play "the merchant of Venice". Antisemitism was widespread in the UK before WW2. We have learned better since then. This is a different thing from arguments with the current government of Israel by the way.

[@mushtato1]

Might I add Robert E Lee in America. We all have our shitty people that people celebrate. We have many places that have had name changes over the years and the statues have needed to be removed because they don't really need that kind of reputation after all the shit they have don't wrong.

[@i.ehrenfest349]

@@simontemplar404 Absolutely, antisemitism was a very ordinary and accepted thing in Europe for a long time. But Ukraine…that’s a different dimension. There are still many streets named after Petlyura, who carried out horrible pogroms against Jews. The violence was terrifying. And in WW2 Ukrainians working for the Germans were often far more beastly and cruel than their German masters.

[@pango-y8j]

Always enjoy your show pack thank you for keeping me informed and for doing what you do you're very talented Rastafari Tucson Arizona Sonoran Desert keep on keeping on

[@rakutzimbel4539]

Proven journalist. Well done David and thank you so much!

[@omartjo]

Correction to what mr Barsky said about the stamps: it was actually back in 2009 (he was born in 1909) that they issued those Bandera stamps. It being that long ago makes this point a bit weaker, but his overall point of the kernel of truth still stands. (Doesn't help that as recent as 4 years ago, the Ukrainian parliament designated his birthday as a national holiday...) Overall a very interesting interview! Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?wprov=sfla1

[@i.ehrenfest349]

Now back to painting that room!

[@persatheo8817]

Fantastic interview thank you!

[@HGChaosNL]

I'm anti Trump but I thought him telling NATO members that they needed to fill their defence quotas set by NATO was a good thing. One of his very few. We are too reliant on the US for defence.

[@trancers3]

You really should watch this about Russia from KZbin "Evaluation of Russia by Finnish Intelligence Colonel"

[@paultaylor6712]

There's at least $500 billion worth of oil waiting to be piped through Donbas/Crimea. Some unknown person, coff, coff owns 19% of Rosfelt which owns this oil.

[@lumpy0100]

Thanks David Pakman, Jack Barsky Et Al.

[@lumpy0100]

Sure but only because we only learned we haven't the Will to kill. maim, enslave, etc, a lot of women and children? ...Or All the men?!😁

[@lewisgreenway5065]

Trump was wrong about NATO countries contributions and Jack Barsky just parroted it, maybe he isn't the font of all knowledge.

[@mark4347]

12:50 David, by mid-year 2022 you have not yet studied who Stepan Bandera is?

[@thickymcghee7681]

I was born and raised in the US. I also went to school here. I am an Ex-High-School-Student. If anyone wants to interview me about how High Schools are built, I am available.

[@mkl01_99]

David this Bandera dude is very important, a little surprised you did not know about him. I think it would be worth your time to look into that - and a few other related things too.

[@michaelbean2478]

It just occurred to me that paranoia afflicts mostly two different groups of people...The psychologically compromised, and guilt-driven criminal types...Neither should be in charge of anything but their own personal lives, and in some cases maybe not even then.

[@vinsanity40k]

definitely want to avoid what's happened to the russian psyche from happening here in america. those who would push paranoid conspiracies or propagandize half of the nation to suspect the other half don't belong here.

[@alelmargep4552]

Love it.

[@mikeb6359]

Your best show

[@truth68-st3dc]

To say Russia was unaware of the military state of the Ukr. and the resolution of its people prior to the initial insertion is naive. The U.S.A. and allies had been training, funding. equipping its military and practically funding the entire government for over 10 years. I seem to recall the troop strength was about 150,000 of highly trained, combat ready troops.

[@papercup2517]

Just on that thorny Nazi issue: My understanding - and perhaps someone will correct me if I've misremembered or misunderstood - is that Antonio Banderas was essentially a freedom fighter for Ukraine - that same struggle for freedom and independent existence the Ukrainians are engaged in now - and that's the reason he was honoured on his centenary, and why many Ukrainians regard him as a national hero. At some point (and here my memory of what I've read about him is particularly hazy) during WWII, he was faced with a terrible situation where temporarily allying his forces with the Hitler's was the best of two really, really bad options he had to pick from, so it's true he did lend them some support - IIRC, at most for a year or two. Exactly what form that support took I can't remember either, but I don't think he was out there murdering Jews, more like just lending some support in the fighting. That's obviously not good, but AFAIK, he never joined the Nazi Party or self-identified as a Nazi, or supported Nazi ideology. Again, if someone knows better, please chime in. But if that is a more or less correct summary of the extent of Banderas's involvement with Hitler and/or Nazism, I'm not sure it's enough to label him forever after as Nazi, neither is it sufficient justification for Mr Putin/Russian media's repeated claims Ukraine is full of, and being run by Nazis.

[@MF-ty2zn]

Zelensky (sp?) is a Jew. So I'm not buying the Nazi angle in Ukraine. I can't say the same for our new Neo Nazi Republican party.

[@gourdguru]

honestly that's about right. he was a ukrainian nationalist, and did have some allyship with nazis. but the way Barskyy frames it here is disingenuous. he's not *wrong*, but he's clearly omitting important factors that show bias while likely reasoning it isn't important for brevity. like, it's easy to frame bandera as the "Bad guy" for a narrative by just saying he was a nationalist/nazi, but that statement lacks context. at the time, ukraine was property of russia, and aside from various other abuses against the populace, the soviet attitude toward planting and collectivizing grain resulted in famine that killed millions of ukrainians. knowledge of the nazi atrocities to the west was likely spotty or non existent, and let's be honest, bandera LIKELY wouldn't have cared. not his circus, not his monkeys. regardless of their opinion of jews, most ukrainians would likely have seen the nazis as the lesser of two evils, a country with an army large enough to threaten russia, but with a fraction of the size and less direct influence on ukraine. IE a military prybar to get loose from russia, who might lack the ability to maintain control and allow them to get independence afterward. as terrible people as nationalists usually are just by default, the one thing they always have going for them is mindless patriotism/jingoism. it causes them to consistently be the first and loudest to give the battlecry when the "homeland" is threatened directly or is in a state of perceived persecution/oppression, real or imagined. as a result of this, you have the context for bandera, a nationalist wanting his country out of soviet hands, who needed an army, and the closest one fit for the job just happened to speak german. was he a nazi? maybe, hell probably. but regardless, he managed to make a huge impact on ukrainian independence along his potential unfinished road to building the Ukrainereich. hence his popularity as a sort of hero figure, compare to the fact romania considers vlad the impaler a national hero, because even though he was a murderous tyrant, he was also keeping back the muslim forces attacking from the east and maintaining order on the front lines of the crusade. wickedness aside, if not for vlad drawing lines in the sand, it's likely romania would be much smaller or nonexistent. as shakespeare so eloquently put it: "I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones; So let it be with Caesar."

[@WizzardofOdds]

Everything looks so normal in that room Barsky is sitting in, all except for that out of place paint roller on the extension handle in the corner. I am guessing that they might be having the ceiling painted.

[@geekspeak1066]

Check out Alex Fridman’s talk with Jack. Good stuff.

[@Lanwarder]

I love Jack Barsky

[@kevinb.8649]

Ukraine says Bandero was not a Nazi. They say he has been miss labeled in history. It is not a black and white issue. And Russia has a large white nationalist population who fly the swastika flag and give the German salute. And there are groups of them in every country in Europe too.

[@lisakukla459]

Wow, this was a really interesting discussion.

[@moriscondo5511]

would like to have heard his take on Dimitry Utkin

[@georgesprat9697]

Why is the preamble all crossed out?

[@theblah9316]

Best interview i've seen this year outside the Jan6 committee interviews.

[@jeremiasrobinson]

Active Measures in action.

[@bettingru]

Barsky is showing signs of age but he is well informed and certainly made some excellent points. Fore example, many believe, including myself, that Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. What Barsky said about Putin's mindset to establish himself as another Peter the Great makes more sense. Unfortunately Putin ignores the lessons learned when the last idiot tried that, and failed miserably. Hitler's goal was to do the same thing; reunite the Roman Empire under German rule; the "third realm" or "Third Reich".

[@icysurfer1]

Great interview

[@meanmadmonkey7762]

????