Top 10 Annoying Rules in Board Games

[@Varrik159]

I love that Sam does the same things as me when given several dice... 1) Tessellate all your d6s into some kind of pattern with the numbers; 2) Rotate the whole construction so that you can look at the other three patterns you made as by-products; 3) Repeat about 70 times; 4) Push the dice away because you're driving yourself up the wall; 5) Wait 10 minutes; 6) Reach for the dice again and proceed back to Step 1.

[@nevercallmebyname]

This list makes me want to make a game with all of these mechanics and call it "Frustration."

[@meep6188]

brilliant

[@itthumyir4569]

do it

[@BionicKing]

The winner is whoever can hold out the longest before rage quitting.

[@prouderaangames7956]

nevercallmebyname frustration is already a game, it's a remake of ludo, I think

[@nevercallmebyname]

aw

[@mostlycaro]

#10 Keeping info to yourself in a cooperative game. #9 The game makes you act like a fool. #8 A card of doom. #7 Programmable movement. Well, more than one at a time, at least. #6 Lose a turn. #5 Pulling tiles from a bag. #4 The stupid war rules from Race for the Galaxy. #3 Rolling for actions. #2 Artificial Catch-up Mechanics. #1 Roll & Move.

[@TheBrothergreen]

+Carolina Barreda number 5 wasn't really drawing tiles from a baggy, more like board game induced blue balls.

[@atherisentertainment2208]

Roll & Move is an excellent mechanic! Just kidding...

[@eschsoapy2809]

"pulling tiles from a bag" Is it the tiles, the bag, the pulling, or just the conjunction of all three of these aspects that has you so full of anger?

[@pm71241]

I like programmable movement. This is what made games like Gunslinger and Woodenships&Ironmen great.

[@jeremywhite92]

Ironically, I only like cooperative games where there is hidden information between the players (such as Battlestar Galatica). Otherwise, I find that in cooperative games with no hidden information, everyone is constantly telling you how to play your turn.

[@TheKindredblades]

I was fine with the roll and move mechanic.... until I played a real game and then i was like: HOLY CRAP, I CAN CHOOSE WHAT I WANT TO DO!!!!!! and i never went back

[@EddyProca]

Request: Top Ten House Rules.

[@jackluminous4261]

it wont get done because house rules imply that modern games are as flawed as older games...and that would be heresy

[@Mortismors]

If you ever play the Firefly Board game, play with 1's as failures. Makes it so much more fun.

[@tinywarfare9109]

Pulling tiles from a bag isn't really the mechanic that's bad. It's the idea of going through all sorts turns and actions for a random reward that amounts to nothing.

[@koalabrownie]

Yeah sounds like Sam is mad with the level of investment. Don't know the game, but if instead of knowing it was just "few worthless knicknacks" it might even be better. You didn't find a Tomb for a Mummy, but you did find a few arrowheads for example.

[@riccardoorlando2262]

Indeed. It's having so much investment stacked on a single random chance. I like to think that there's only two ways of doing randomness right: either you have very little of it, so that it doesn't mess up game plans, or a whole lot of it, so that it evens out.

[@57thorns]

More random does not even out. Flip a coin once, and you know you are at +1 or -1. Flip a coin twice, there is a 50/50 chance of being at 0. Flip a cone 1000 times, and you could be at -1000. Sure, not likely, but possible. It is possible to prove that the chance of ending up within any finite distance from zero decreases the more tries you do. The distribution will be narrower, relatively speaking, such that if you roll 1000 dice the average will be close to 3.5. However, if you average is off by a tiny fraction (say 3.4) with a 1000 dice rolls the result will be off with 100, which is impossible rolling just one die (which could be off with at the most 2.5). Another factor, apparent in many games, is that many random events are less important. There will still be some crucial events that can turn the whole game around more often than not. In a simple roll and move racing game with no catchup mechanic (roll a die, the first to get to 10, or 100, or 1000 wins). So the person with the best roll on the first turn is more likely to win than the one with the worst roll, regardless of how long the game is.

[@EwaldderLaeufer]

Awesome guys! Really fun to watch. Please make more!

[@gyroh6593]

31:08 Tom: You know how careful I am with my games? Also Tom: Dice tower review, into my collection! *smacks the shit out of the game with a hammer*

[@kennyzail6224]

Adding to Sam's 'the rich get richer' theme, I experience that in Settlers of Catan. After a couple rounds you know if you are going to have a good chance of winning or not. The placement of your first settlements has a lot to do with the game.

[@kirtpurdy1129]

Getting eliminated in a long game...I got killed off in the first hour of Shogun (the MB Game Master version) and my buddies played for another 8 hours. Ugh. It was on a once-a-year game weekend. Boooorrrriiiiinnnnggg....

[@darthvenge465]

Had a somewhat similar experience in Shogun - played 1.5 hours and got eliminated. Nothing else to do until game ended. Not a fan of games that have very long play times and player elimination. Too much time invested for no payout. Could have played two other shorter games in that time.

[@jasonsmith1133]

I enjoy Roll and Move in some Vintage games. It is nice to just roll and move some pawns and take some actions. Some older games have some interesting mechanisms to make the roll and move not as painful.

[@jackardoin3133]

I know im late, but to adress that beginning citadels warlord complaint, I use the diplomat. He comes with the edition that includes expansion characters and districts. The only difference is that instead of destroying, he swaps districts with others.

[@Akco007]

I am loving these top ten videos! Keep em coming.

[@frankenmuth1]

So I just subscribed. I honestly don't care about boardgames, well maybe thats a bit harsh, but your personalities are so entertaining it makes me want to get into them

[@SeekerLancer]

I'm a really casual board game fan and I agree, I just enjoy watching them interact and joke with each other.

[@gregsaldi1292]

so do you have your own board game channel now?

[@Skyblade12]

My family now plays Clue by a unique set of rules. We still do Roll to move, but we ignore the hallways completely. You roll, and can move clockwise or counterclockwise around the board that many rooms. It removes completely the ability some players have of keeping you from ever doing ANYTHING in that game by keeping you from moving rooms, and at least lets everyone play.

[@lecitadin69]

We always play pandemic with each player's cards on the table.

[@dregen77]

And we lose most of the times anyway!

[@lecitadin69]

I think the best way to win the game is to cure a virus within the first 3 turns.

[@Indubitably14]

I stopped playing that way because it prevents a player from taking over the game.

[@gabrielesimionato1210]

Is there a different way to play it?

[@SeekerLancer]

That's how you're supposed to play it.

[@MysteriousVisage]

I love these longer videos with Sam and Zed because the dynamic between the three of you is phenomenal. I'd very much enjoy seeing more of these kind of top ten videos or even some video play throughs of games where the three of you are discussing the game as you play.

[@EverybodyLovesAlf]

If we can just include all of these mechanics in one game, maybe it'll be so bad it'll be good.

[@jacksonchase1951]

EverybodyLovesAlf can we talk about how scary Alf looks... like what the hell

[@Gizmovolders]

I'm loving these vids. Zee is the best. Love how 3 point of views balance things out so you get all the pro and cons of things. Great job like always.

[@LunaticReason]

Damn these are all mechanics I was gonna put in the game i was designing.

[@CrimeaRiver]

lol

[@DJRoksor]

I actually like the dice roll thing in monopoly (I mean there's no way you're deliberately gonna land on someone else his property if you can to some extend chose how much steps you're gonna take) but I hate it in trivial pursuit and other games where you need to trow an exact number in order to finish.

[@soldierofkazus]

I despise MTG blue decks. They're based on not allowing the opponent to make a move-any move. The victim is effectively not playing the game, and there is nothing less fun to do while playing a game than not playing the game.

[@michaelbauers8800]

Mono blue seems old skool to me, but I don't play tournament magic very much. Actually the most annoying deck I own is blue-white control. Put the right spells on isochron scepter and people will range from being annoyed to being pretty upset about it. Your turn, I use the scepter to cast Orim's chant during your upkeep, you can't attack or play spells. There's a reason I rarely play it, because it rarely loses in casual play and it's no fun. So it's not just blue that locks down people. Black can be devastating at locking people down too.

[@37thgungrunts]

So, counter it. Don't like mono blue control? Find a way to prevent it.

[@soldierofkazus]

37thgungrunts Says the guy who plays monoblue. Nothing can really punish counterspells, and there just aren't enough options that can't be countered to present a credible defense. The only ways I've found to prevent it are to play blue myself or to refuse to play against those friends who insist on using it. It's indicative of bad game design,

[@37thgungrunts]

Steampunk Papercut So, you assume I play mono-blue? I don't play mono-anything. If you've got one guy who likes to play blue, plan around it. Or play slivers, problem solved.

[@Pandaman64]

Steampunk Papercut Play man lands. Lands that become creatures, OR an aggro deck with many small creatures, OR monoblack (duress is amazing vs counters), OR several of the uncounterable green options. Mono blue hasn't been viable in forever. It's the best support color, but it's terrible on it's own.

[@toddevangelista]

Backgammon is a good roll & move game with lots of strategy, esp. if you use the doubling cube.

[@fnord3125]

I may be wrong, but I suspect the reason for Zee's #10 (not being allowed to share information in co-op games) is to try to avoid the "alpha player" problem of one person telling everyone else what to do and basically running the whole show. If you don't know what other people can do, you can't give orders. Not to say that I think this justifies those rules, but I think that may be part of the reason they exist in so many games.

[@rynmango354]

I have played a game of Pandemic, where I may have been the "Alpha Player". it ruined the fun for one of our players. But it is a good rule not to do that lol.

[@kau6912]

Interesting theory, but the "alpha player" problem is a people problem, not a game problem. You know, that one guy who needs to have control, whom OVER-explains things in games - he's almost always the alpha player....

[@fnord3125]

K Au Are you suggesting there are no game rules designed in an attempt to prevent social problems?

[@jackluminous4261]

K Au but mechanics of a game can prevent that

[@davidharshman7645]

To be fair to Shadows Over Camelot (which they mentioned specifically,) the point isn't to withhold information. It's to encourage talking in character and encourage players to find a creative way of saying what you want without revealing details. And, it also gives the Traitor a bit of leeway to be "misunderstood."

[@forisrex]

i LOVED careers! i used to play it with my grandma when i was a kid! its so awesome to hear it mentioned again. thanks!

[@Indubitably14]

Parcheesi is the oldest and best roll and move game because there is strategy involved that games like Sorry and Trouble removed. You can actually divide the dice: if you roll a 4 and a 5, you don't HAVE to go 9 spaces, you can split it up between the pieces.

[@davidharshman7645]

And, there's a reason to send more than one piece out at a time, since you can intentionally form blockades and such. (Though, the exact count for the end-game can be frustrating, still.)

[@TheGameLocker]

These videos are highly entertaining, and keep a good pace throughout. Keep doing more!

[@xshortguy]

A little late to the video, but my least favorite mechanic is: One player chooses a winner (Apples to Apples, Cards vs Humanity)

[@thebootknifer]

I can see why you don't like that mechanic, I don't mind it because I try to play that mechanic out. What I mean is I like to take on the challenge of figuring out what combination of cards really hits it home for the one choosing the winner.

[@atherisentertainment2208]

That is true. That is not a mechanic we're super interested in, either.

[@eprasuhn]

I completely agree with #7 programmable movement . Played Robo rally for the first time and hated it.!

[@mulletsquirrel]

I don't know what to call this rant specifically, but the ending to the game Munchkin is more annoying to me than anything I've ever encountered. You're level 9, about ready to defeat a monster and win, but everyone else prevents this from happening. That's fine so far. Everyone else who is level 8 and below are allowed to defeat their monsters and catch up. Whoever is level 9 is the target of the players because they don't want to lose. It just drags on and on until everyone runs out of useful cards and someone finds an easy monster to defeat. But this isn't until hours later. And there is only a slim chance that the player who wins was even close to winning when the original person was so close. It acts as a neat mechanic in the early game, but towards the end, it is just a way for everyone to catch up.

[@levihobbs1416]

Darrek Olson I agree but also bear in mind that Munchkin is just supposed to be a light, "just fun" game. And it doesn't really take "hours" IME.

[@Dwigii]

I really enjoy the vids where you are all together. It feels so fun and natural and not-scripted! I also totally agree with most of your TOP10. I don't know why you did not mentioned shoots and ladders for the TOP1 rule - as the game consists only of roll and move.

[@defranza]

Who's up to the challenge of making a game with the all of these rules? LOL Would it suck so much it became good? like a good bad movie?

[@thebootknifer]

It will be like trying to look away from a gruesome car accident. You want you look away, you want to walk away, but you just can't.

[@CrimsonWeltall]

Part of the reason for #10 - concealing information - is that when a game like Shadows Over Camelot is played openly, ALL decisions become group-made ("you should do this") and the more experienced players usually dominate the gameplay. Requiring some personal info, like cards, be hidden inserts some independence for each player.

[@fluffylee]

In RISK I play with rules that allow eliminated players to rebel in the territories they had in their final round (or former capital throughout the game). They can come back fully into the game with the right dice rolls.

[@froff922]

Huh. That sounds pretty interesting. Do you have any specific number of troops you like to use for the rebellion?

[@hoschiadedodi]

I missed my most hated game mechanism. The ones where players deliberately or indeliberately form coaltions to take out a single player. Like Player A attacks player B in a war of tear and wear and in the next turn Player C jumps in for the coup de grâce. I don't mind it in games like settlers of catan, where everyone tries to steal from the player with the clay monopoly though.

[@DanielBlak]

Tom Vasel, you're a champ.

[@MrJenssen]

50 minutes of awesomeness? Time for another Dicetower binge!

[@Steve-L]

I own over 100 board games, yet their #1 bad rule makes me fill dissed, because Talisman is my 2nd favorite game. Now I know people may not like it. But there seems to be an "aura" if you like Talisman or roll and move games, you are not a "real" gamer. I own a lot of games, and introduce games to my gamer group. Please don't disrespect those of us "real" gamers who like Talisman or other roll & move games.

[@dancondonjones]

Doma Agape Talisman is fine because you still get a choice of at least two (sometimes more) directions to go. That gives you sometimes meaningful decisions of whether to go quickly to the treasure/fountain/whatever even though that means going through a nasty space.

[@TheDoctor394]

I've ALWAYS hated the "roll the exact amount" mechanic to finish a game, from childhood onwards. It deserves to be number one.

[@GRex7777]

Gotta say, I will ALWAYS prefer the randomness of a dice over cards or tiles in a bag. Cards and tiles are drawn and removed, so the odds are always changing, while a die, is ALWAYS the same odds, every single roll. My d6 always has a 1 in 6 chance. Yes it IS possible to roll 100 times and never get a 6 or whatever, but at the end of the day.... I still had a fair chance at it the entire time. Not, the guy who pulled first had 1 in 5, but the next guy has 1 in 7, and so forth. I'll always take the constant odds over the constantly shifting odds. Granted, I haven't played Thebes, so I WILL admit that it may work because of the theme, but in general, no, I really dislike odds that are always changing.

[@DangerKennyB]

In regards to the "no communication" rule, it is indeed stupid in Witch of Salem. But in some games it isn't, like Shadows Over Camelot. The limited communication role is important to protect the traitor.

[@SkyLordPanglot]

I hate the overall idea of randomizing any action at all. I know it is terribly hard to make a game based only on decisions and skill, and remove any dice, coin flips and etc, but these are the best games for me. Skill over luck! Thats why I fell in love with chess from the very first time I played it, at about age of 7 or 8, if a recall correctly.

[@SkyLordPanglot]

Yeah happens. Sometimes hilarious moments can come out of dice rolls in board RPGs but most of the time it is dice roll. As if Im simply playing dice and Im not in RPG.

[@pmdgames444]

Sky Lord Panglot I get where you're coming from but I think a game with some randomization is more realistic. A larger force doesn't always win in battle. Too much randomization can ruin a game. The vastly skilled player should win the majority of times. You like what you like though.

[@SkyLordPanglot]

Oh yes. Some randomization is OK. But it has to be on the right spot. Not just "roll for everything you do". Cause I played those games. Also yeah you like what you like. The problem is that I dont know how to realiza what I like. I like RPGs, but most of them contain too much dice rolls, which I dont like. If they dont contain mainly dice rolls they involve terrible calculations, which I dont like either. Whats the compromise here Im not sure yet but Ill tell you when I find it. :D

[@dm2ortiz]

Sky Lord Panglot I would agree with your point. I love randomization but there is a time and place for it. in warhammer 40,000 I can move up 6 in bout I can only run or charge 6D or 2D6. WTF every other game is fixed. I run show and my son runs fast but when we run it is always at the same speed we ran last time. we don't run randomly. it just slow down the game and takes to much a way from "the feel" of the game

[@rodrigoconsoli3544]

Sky Lord Panglot In FATE or Fudge system may be the right spot for you as it is for me: you roll 4dF, a dF being a 1 in 3 chance of getting either blank, a + or a - (or a d6 where 1-2 is -, 3-4 is blank, 5-6 is +), and those results are modifiers to your skills. The distribution for me seems more realistic, still with chances of getting a +4 or -4, but its just about 1% each, and about 65% chances on an avarage roll (-1 through +1). There are even variations made to increase the ~65% chance to nearly 85% i think. Besides, summing up + and - signs is fairly easy.

[@johnpopper5202]

11:38 I played one of those cards in a Magic Draft Tournament once. It was basically a delay for my inevitable demise, lol.

[@LordBadenRulez]

I loved careers as a kid. It was the game that made me realise how stupid Monopoly is.

[@xthebumpx]

Every game made me realize how stupid Monopoly is.

[@jackluminous4261]

xthebumpx one of teh most popular games ever and you're dissing it - teel me just how many bestsellers have you made?

[@davidharshman7645]

Jack Luminous Selling a lot of games doesn't make it fun to play. Monopoly in particular has a lot of people buying collectors' editions for nostalgia or for show or even buying it just to have it rather than because they want to play it.

[@LinkEX]

David Harshman Monopoly might be one of the prime examples that show that paradoxically, games don't have to be fun to sell well. It's enough to get popular for looking pleasing and memorable, as well as being easy to understand, and thus more accessible for everybody. I think in Monopoly's case, it was probably thanks to a lot of simple yet elegant eye candy, and most importantly easy to understand rules (while keeping a unique atmosphere). You have a now iconic yet simple board design, the proprietary theme, the little houses, and last but not least the pretty tokens. Despite it being dull and having the tendency to drag out, I never quite hated it, though. Another example for such a game that's even more dull than Monopoly that I absolutely despite since it is the prime example and the worst offender of a roll and move game is *Mensch Ärgere Dich Nicht*. And yet everyone knows it, and it is in every freaking Games Compendium you buy. 99.5% of it is luck-based, the remaining half percent can be managed with an equal amount of brain cells to maintain the strategic aspect of it, which is about which token to move with your die roll when you have multiples outside.

[@jackluminous4261]

I still think that the dissing of Monopoly is down to jealousy - its like musos begrudging the riff of Louie Louie being simple yet highly popular

[@alessandrocaviola1575]

Hidden information is one of the best ways to avoid the alpha player in coop games. I don't know Salem, but I suspect that this was the reason for the designer to add that rule...

[@kobaltblueknight]

One little thing I would like to bring up about your show. The individual videos are a TAD long. Most top ten videos top in at about half the average length of your top tens. Long videos aren't totally bad, but when I am watching top ten videos, I really am just looking to waste around 10 to 20 minutes max. I might still end up wasting a whole hour total, but I'll waste it on several shorter videos; rather than a few long ones. Personally, I think you might be able to get your individual video's views up quite a bit if you shortened them a little. This video had 136,902 views as of my viewing. It is over a year old at this point. I see no reason why a top10 about a subject as popular as board games shouldn't have amassed closer to a million views over the course of a year. I think length may have something to do with that.

[@MrNoelJMIS]

do you realize the irony of writing a two-paragraph post on this particular topic? XD

[@JazzRadioFfm]

keep in mind that these are boardgamers. an hour feels like a poop in their life ^^

[@thebootknifer]

***** ....There is no irony. Two paragraphs of typing probably took him 2min. He can't just place down 4 words and expect them to take that as detailed constructive criticism.

[@MrNoelJMIS]

k

[@levihobbs1416]

Eric Lawrence If you're a hardcore board game geek, then you most likely want to spent an hour hearing about a zillion games *shrug* I know I do. If you personally don't want a video that long, then just go watch something else...

[@aaronpaolilli8578]

Question: If a Card forces you to Role Play a Pirate or Sing a Couple Lines, would you consider that Acting a Fool?

[@ZenAndPsychedelicHealingCenter]

Put links to each individual subject of the video. Hunting through for ones that are of interest is too much of a chore for many. Oh and learn what Socialism is, that comment was embarrassingly ignorant.

[@ahtartersauce101]

+John D A Soialism does not equal COMMUNISM, Tom. You know that Social Security check that your gonna get in 30 years from now? Guess which type of policy that is.... Ill wait.

[@Moonawrathic]

+Michael Carrillo socialism is a terrible and evil system that is poised to ruin the USA.

[@ahtartersauce101]

Moonawrathic says the dude who either has a trust waiting for him, has a credit rating off the charts bc of his bank connections, has SHARES in bank, or is simply ignorant of the poison of capitalism that is literally killing him with every meal that he takes and is causing the economy to collapse

[@Moonawrathic]

Michael Carrillo Capitalism is the best system, while it does still have it's flaws. We live in a broken world with a bunch of idiots. The only system that can work with this kind of human condition is one where people are rewarded for their own hard work and effort. Capitalism at it's core.

[@ahtartersauce101]

Moonawrathic yeah no. Capitalism only functions on death. In order for people to be rewarded then others have to be punished. In the extreme that punishment is death. So if you want more LIFE-lyhood then ppl have to DIE. thats exactly what is happening in america with poverty, metabolic disease at outrageous heights all for the sake of "free market" ideals

[@djgongral]

I love when these three are all together! Just as a note, programmable movement is one of my favorite all time mechanics!!

[@jward1465]

I was so excited to see another top 10 list! Keep them coming.

[@BoxofDelights]

great job guys - very entertaining and spot on! nice one, Rick

[@MNNoxMortem]

I think number 5 is wrong. It is not really the pulling itself i would say but the "get nothing". Not that i know that particular game but if you e.g. pull sooner or later every tile out of a bag i actually think that mechanism is cool because you know the chance increase for the next turn.

[@wetwillyccma]

Good job guys. Love watching you 3 talk about top 10 games and stuff. Keep them coming.

[@Hedgehogking5]

As someone who found your hatred of "roll to move" mechanics appreciable and a challenge, thank you for the in-depth discussion of exactly what irks you the most and what can alleviate them. My idea was to have subset numbers on certain tiles that if that number was rolled on a die and within the total move area then you could CHOOSE to stop there, low rolls would still be horrible, though it could be easily implemented on any games you currently held in contempt.

[@gthwlf5000]

Just started watching your videos recently. Really loving them. You guys are great.

[@PurityThruFire]

I'm glad Zee has been sticking around, these top tens with all 3 of you are great.

[@Velocity_Eleven]

what about roll-and-move for backgammon though? there's still choice and implications on which of the counters you use, and each space is different because you have to keep track of it's distance from other spaces aswell as it's ease-of-access

[@DemonmachinE]

It's always fun to see a comment on a video from someone you know! Especially when it's a video where you don't expect them!

[@Velocity_Eleven]

yeah I know, crazy awesome!

[@shelbybuttimer1397]

I think the real key to good game mechanics is a good chance/strategy balance. If a game is all chance, it's boring. If it's all strategy, it can be intimidating for newer players and can make for poor game replay. Once you've figured out the best way to win the game, there's nothing more to do. A dash of chance can really help with replay-ability and can even up the game a bit for newer players and players who have played it dozens of times. Chance doesn't necessarily have to be brought in as dice rolls or cards though. If players interact with each other enough, that can bring in enough of a random element to make the game fun. Chance that's entirely brought in via dice rolls can get boring and frustrating. "Clue" depends largely on dice rolls for the "chance" element of the game and it's maddening. I think games like "Sorry" and "Parcheesi" are so popular because chance outweighs the strategy component so heavily. The rules are pretty basic, ithey're quick to learn and easy and fast to play. Monopoly doesn't rely as heavily on chance because you have choices to make about what to do with properties so there's a little more strategy.

[@Jindorek]

at 10:00 - we call that mechanism : if win, win more. i sometimes find it happens in eclipse, when a player has great money resources, which provides more actions, which provides more opportunity for money etc.

[@brettsimon3829]

Are you okay with the rule of roll the dice and you can move as many spaces in that you as you choose? Ex: roll and 3 and you can move 1,2, or 3 hexagon spaces and choose which to land on? - currently working on a game with this mechabic

[@AgentKuo]

One of mine is: Keep playing after the game is over. For example: in Survive! the rules say to keep flipping tiles until you get the volcano, but once everyone gets all their guys off the island, into thee safe spots, what's the point? And similarly, when you are eliminated from a game, but you keep playing (but barely, doing like 1 action that doesn't affect you in any way). If you get eliminated, but the game keeps making you play, you should still be able to win somehow OR get back into the game.

[@krudmonger]

In games where you can attack people, which is a worse mechanic, elimination, or losing a turn? Because I was considering "lose a turn" (or more specifically, "retreat and recuperate") to be a more palatable alternative to outright permanent elimination, but judging from this list, I may be wrong about that.

[@shagndragons8186]

Artificial Catch-Up: Power Struggle uses this mechanism as a part of the game tactics. You need to be in last place often in order to take advantage of going first (a very big advantage). It is part of the game to try to stay behind as long as you can, until you are forced to go ahead (and then you try to get far ahead and push for the win). It is a neat mechanic as it encourages players to stay near each other in points until you have set up your master plan and can zoom ahead. Now the other player has the advantage of going first to try to catch you before you win the game. Artificial catch-up as a mechanic done really well.

[@danielchiverton4168]

17:35 Your not supposed to show cards in pandemic? I have been playing this game wrong. (And will continue to do so I might add)

[@SisyphusX]

Re-listening to the intro to this list - and the bit on mechanics vs mechanisms. Top 10 Annoying Pedantic Discussions in Gaming A. Mechanic vs Mechanism B. Rulebook v Rule Book v Rulesbook C. It Doesn’t Say I Can’t Do That D. Round v Turn v Action v Phase v Step E. When The Card Says Number of Cards, Does It Count Itself? There. I gave you half. :)

[@andrewhazlewood4569]

Artificial catch up mechanics / preventing elimination - Cyclades. The first time I played I took one of my friends starting islands at the start of the game. Because of the rule that you can't lose your last space he used the farming action repeatedly and easily won in the end.

[@volcanicmike4247]

For reseting the board, CAN I GET A PLANAR CLEANSING???

[@chuckirby2888]

A note for resource games: can we stop with stone and brick? They're really not that different, and there has to be other basic elements that we can use as resources.

[@cartoon80s90s]

Great episode. Definitely worth watching despite the long duration. I'll watch the Top 10 party games, just to see Sam's reactions.

[@jonazo7188]

Isn't Carcassonne basically "pick a tile from a bag"? I guess it's mitigated because you never (or very rarely?) have ZERO choices with your tile. I know there have been times where I'm waiting all game for the perfect tile that would complete my city or whatever though.

[@MrNoelJMIS]

I thoroughly enjoy the quirky little music choices between segments. :)

[@eduardoduarte6098]

The Top Tens, People's Choices Top 100 Games of All Time, Miami Dice, I really love the videos you do together.

[@MehdiHusain]

I love to see you three together. It could be my daily show. It reminds me of RedLetterMedia's Half in the Bag somehow. Keep it up!

[@illu45]

Would you include the M:tG spells that tap all opponent cards in your 'lose a turn' rule?

[@dannycurtis3575]

The most annoying rule or mechanic to me is Zombiecide's Targeting mechanic when firing into an adjacent tile or zone and how you have to aim at a survivor first, and the priority going down the list just seems wrong to me.

[@leetfeetman]

can you further explain? I do not comprehend what you mean by continuous shuffling

[@Moonawrathic]

I have a question for you guys. You mentioned a dislike for get richer and richer, also known as the snowball effect, where the player that is winning can easily widen that gap. And then you don't like what you call "badly implemented or artificial catch up mechanics". What is a good or acceptable catch up mechanic that isn't "artificial"?

[@scotthix2926]

+Moonawrathic A good catch up is settlers of Catan. "Steal a resource from a person with more points than you." You usually need 3 to 6 cards to build something. Taking a card slows down the leader and helps the looser but it is one instance and only a 1/3 of a point. And there are many ways to steal a card namely robber, thus the leader can steal it back.

[@Moonawrathic]

Scott Hix Yeah, I play that game almost monthly. It's pretty fun. The good thing about Settlers is that in most cases, the other players know who is winning and so the enforce a trade embargo on that player as a sorta built in handicap.

[@rc7771]

Not sure if this has been said, but was the game you couldn't remember called Titanium Wars?

[@pallepirat]

The best series of programs you have made! The synergy between you too makes it all work. Hope that you will make a top 10 game list over games you can play together with your wife, because it's a cool way to spend time together. Thank you very much for your awesome programs.

[@junkmailjoebrown]

HOUSE RULES 1) Own Secret Units Look at your own secret units anytime you want - except on your own turn. Speeds play without impairing knowledge of own units. Works great for Titan. 2) Timed turns 30 second timer starts after first player is done with their turn. Works great for Robo Rally.

[@WarehouseNumberEight]

Okay Tom, Sam & Z need their own series! Please make this happen! This every other week special has become the highlight of thedicetower videos.

[@tysoasn]

I love Careers, I picked it up at Goodwill for 2 bucks a couple years ago and it was much better than I expected.

[@runepainter]

Those are 50mm Vortex dice from Chessex. You can find them on Amazon and other sites. Chessex has a site too.

[@philheaton1619]

How about a random # of action rule that uses a D3 with a plus or an averaging die (2-3-3-4-4-5). What if you can reroll by paying a small penalty (spend a victory point to reroll). Sorry can be a good game if you play it with a three card hand, draw a card, then play a card. It allows for some strategy, and can make it much easier to start playing.

[@starrius]

on the view of rolling for actions. how do you guys feel about dead of winters version for having multiple characters and rolling for your dice results before hand? Isn't this very similar to this type of mechanic

[@philheaton1619]

Sam, how do you feel about the movement in Wooden Ships and Iron Men?

[@AxinZeith]

My game I'm creating has #9 but it's optional and doing it gives you a bonus. We have an equipment that allows you to Moo to gain an extra Movement Dice. I think the balance is in forcing a player to be silly and allowing them to.

[@SuperBellicose]

What were those fast games you mentioned around 14:20ish?

[@jeangodecoster]

#8: in paper tales there's a card that can singlehandedly win you the game if you get it on round 1: the relic (can't die, at the end of the game get 2 vp for every age counter on it). And when you have it, your opponents are forced to make sub-optimal drafts to prevent you from getting age token synergy, which in turn helps you get better cards from the draft

[@RosieGamgee]

where did you get the big dice? a bunch of us in the comments want to know, please put it in the description or something.

[@tommymedernach5456]

I s incredibly agree about Trivial Pursuit. We only ever play this with a colored die. Roll a color, get a question, get a cheese! Sure there is still some luck involved when you only need one more color, but it's tons better than the full game, and we usually finish a game in 10-15 minutes, which is fantastic. T.

[@VadimKazakov]

I hate roll & move mechanics as well, but there's a reason games with them are so popular. Most of them are designed either for kids, or as super simple casual games that anybody can play without thinking too much about the game. There's a reason slot machines are the most popular games at the casino, people want the excitement of a random result, but not the weight of having to decide what to do.

[@OblivionCalling]

I do have to disagree on the "Reset Button" in instances like MtG. Normally it just pushes a game back yes, but in MtG where you have multiple deck types competing it's a valid strategy and doesn't reset the game. Proper decks get better with those cards while a deck that can be affected by it badly should be built to recover from them if need be. I am glad they removed the card Armageddon. Destroying ALL lands for that cheap is pretty bad for pacing.

[@anthonykent00]

Re: Trivial Pursuit rolling. I don't like roll and move either. But it can be a great equalizer by introducing such a strong luck factor. If you just want to find out who knows more you can read the cards to each other. Not knocking the list, I see why it's annoying.

[@johnnylin3084]

I rmb an online strategy game with a really horrible catch-up mechanic, its called corruption, the more territory you hold, the less each territory produce, and with some math a huge problem came to light, a player with 120 territories produce less resources than someone with 30 territories when all other variants being equal

[@bencheshire]

41:30 is it Kingdom Builder?

[@matthewb4988]

I find turn restrictions that can combo to lose a turn are fine. For example you have three actions and various effects make you lose an action, so there could be a turn were you have no actions.

[@Mifoi]

Love you guys! Great videos!

[@dorpth]

Memory victory points: where victory points for each player is known public information, but has each player hides them after they receive them. It's just annoying having to play a memory game of who was ahead.