Turing Machine Review: Punch Card + Logic = Fun?

Tom Vasel, Mike DiLisio, Chris & Wendy Yi all take a look at Turing Machine!
Intro 0:00
Overview 1:10
Final Thoughts 7:59
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BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3...

[@jeremyslayton]

The discussion variety in these group reviews is excellent. I love the new format change. Great work you four!

[@makaveli8233]

I really appreciate and understand Mike’s low score as without him it would be easy to see the high scores and jump into something that definitely isn’t going to be everyone’s cup of tea. I’ve had those feelings of it just not clicking with certain games in the past whilst everyone else round the table is getting it and that sucks.

[@FemmeSensei]

Love the honesty and love love love love these group reviews. Without those candid, honest takes with different personalities and game leanings some of these games and reviews could really miss folks. Thanks Dice Tower and thanks Mike for sticking yourself out there!

[@chrism7395]

Mike's feeling of frustration is how I feel playing traitor mechanic or social deduction games

[@stingray1666]

10000% me too. Despise both of those mechanics

[@RedCubTX]

As a programmer that loves logic puzzles, (Used to buy the Penny Press grid logic books as a kid.) I am looking forward to getting this for solo play. Love the group reviews and this for sure is a game that has a specific audience.

[@LeScorpionmasque]

We're really glad that the equation Punch Card + Logic = a Seal of Excellence for Turing Machine ☺

[@derickkopff1314]

I’d be curious as to your comparison to Search for Planet X (which I enjoy solo.)

[@willreardon5116]

Just started playing this game and I LOVE it! It’s definitely a solo game for me - I can see the daily online puzzle becoming part of my routine. I have that nook that Chris dreams of set up already 😊

[@lorelielomaloma6569]

i can’t imagine this would feel fun to me - i used to have to program using ibm punchcards and the memories of dropping a box load of the cards on the floor and the cards flying every which way… and having to start all over again…

[@BlueGiantMedia]

The logic puzzle of this looks right up my alley. I’d be interested in this solo or cooperative to teach my kids logic too. My main concern is that I wonder if it’s better just as an app. The production does looks great though.

[@benjaminspears8488]

I think we need to see Tom vs. Chris in a mental showdown!

[@teejleague3838]

I really love the new format. It's extremely helpful to hear different voices. I am very sure I'd side with Mike on this one, but my husband would side with Chris. It helps us know that it's a game Ben will love playing solo but probably not so much with me. Very cool format.

[@PestiferousJoe]

Thanks Mike for speaking for others.

[@angiebernhardt5178]

What kind of table is that in this video? Looking for a table and like that one. Thanks 👍

[@hecate9659]

I was intrigued by this game, when no-one knew what it really was but many people were talking about it, but in fact I have the same kind of thinking as Mike. I'm sure it's a grand game, but not for me (and I loved mastermind when I was a kid however!) this video was very useful, thank you!

[@kwouters]

I had (and still have) a very similar game when I was a kid called “Safecrack”. In Safecrack, you’re trying to find a three-digit combination to a safe. The clues are also about odd/even, multiples of 3/4/5, sums of numbers , etc. The key cards were also punched cards with holes in them to get clues and check your answers. Turing Machine is clearly more advanced, but the similarities are many!

[@Infil]

I appreciate Mike's perspective on this review; this game really feels like it was built specifically for programmers. Not even just the name/theme of the game, but the way the game flows (submit a test code and receive information on which properties of your test correctly map to the real code), figuring out that some codes are impossible even just by looking at the setup... this type of logic is for a very specific type of person, even moreso than other logic games I think. That said, I was hoping to hear a bit more from the DT crew whether they thought the physical implementation was too fiddly to enjoy? This seems like the type of thing that would be perfect as an app, but I think part of the allure of the package is the slick punchcard production (you get to marvel at the mathematical design of fitting millions of puzzles on a stack of cards, rather than just using an app). But with the physical game, you have to constantly sort those huge stacks of answer/verifier cards, even if you only spend 5 minutes on a puzzle. Then for your next puzzle you have to put everything back in a careful order and pull out new cards. I suppose them not mentioning it means it didn't bother them as much, but I was hoping to hear them talk about that a bit.

[@DTChrisYi]

I found set-up to be pretty quick, both out-of-the-box as well as doing multiple scenarios one after another.

[@thedicetower]

i agree, it's pretty fast!

[@AdamJorgensen]

Mmmmm....the last thing I want to do is turn my worklife into a game 🙂

[@laniehrlich9271]

Oh man I want this game! I really appreciate the differing opinions with explanations why. It helps me understand if I’m going to like a game!

[@jameskirk4692]

Thank you for the review!

[@Michaelrsted]

All really fair points and great with variant views. It’s all very logical.

[@24Monty24]

I can't wait to get my hands on this game!

[@jasonlight1316]

How would you compare this to P.I. by Martin Wallace?

[@rb4551]

I once again align with Mike.

[@garyfaust6769]

Great review. I would like to see how you all like Loot of Lima as a logic game.

[@lasocietedesjeux]

Wow, thanks for this video, a really interesting game !

[@dashalpha]

interesting (and cool). Feels like a more complex take on Mastermind. I'd bet if you like Mastermind you'll like this, and if you don't you won't. Glad I never had to deal with punch cards, my start was in Basic, C, and Pascal in the 90s.

[@ShadowBlah]

I'm very interested in this game. But from this discussion it seems like The Search for Planet X is more interactive between players as a game.

[@arnold2011]

Love the review.

[@boardgameswiththomas]

Great review! I think this is a fantastic game with tons of replay-ability. I've been really enjoying the solo mode

[@FemmeSensei]

Mike: Curious if this hits the same nerves as Planet X, or if that one strikes you different and how?

[@Pavos]

I was wondering this as well!

[@DrFrankenolly]

I like that mike pointed out his differences with what he didn’t like about the game. I had impressions that this was going to be like decrypto, party game of solving puzzles. I definitely want this as a solo activity rather than a party game because I hate it when a game makes people feel like they’re doing something wrong or that they’re dumb when it just isn’t the game for them. Had this happen with The Key by Habba. Played it with my sister and we loved it. Then tried it with my game group and it fell flat. They had a hard time with the clue system and logic puzzle aspects. Quickly had to pivot to a game we all knew and loved because experiences like that can ruin a night. Very grateful for your thoughts on the game Mike!

[@mica8076]

"And you've been programmed to watch the Dice Tower." 😂

[@shanedbunting]

Just curious but how many of you worked out the example in Chris's game explanation before it was revealed?

[@deronfreudenthal5646]

I feel you Mike. Not for me either. When I first heard about this game I felt how you look in the recent We’ll Play It Live intros.

[@PsychicLord]

This is right up my street, looking forward to adding this to my collection.

[@gagnonjoel2]

Great review! I really like this new format and the varieties of point of views. Can't wait in November for the official release of Turing Machine!

[@goldblend86]

This looks to be more of a neat mechanic than a fully blown game. I would buy it for my kids when old enough to teach them a) logic and b) neat mechanical instruments. Imagine if cluedo used this as a way to check your final guess (and of course improved everything else about the game..)

[@CarlToonist]

Mike, I am with you. I like some types of riddles, but I don't do logic puzzles very well.

[@MassEffectFan113]

Mike is the new voice of the people!

[@danielscheri6589]

While I’m pretty sure I will LOVE this game as I love logic-based anything, I appreciate Mike’s review as a counter-point and a way to show that this game won’t be for everyone. In a way, Mike’s 4 against 8s and 9s is a lot more helpful than a game that is straight 7.0 and 7.5 across the board.

[@scottelam3726]

I can see where my wife would've said the first number was 1 because she got a green checkbox... but all that was intended is that the first number is the LOWEST. It's about the details.

[@Mcbarkles]

Great review... I can totally relate to the different scores. People's brains work differently. This game is right up my alley bc I love logic puzzles. My husband would hate it but he is not unintelligent at all .. he is much better at large spacial things. And I could see how playing against someone who can "get it" without effort can be discouraging I think it's a very person specific game

[@Drewkas0]

This looks cool! Thanks for the review!

[@billlau9505]

Has anyone tried to play this game cooperatively? Will this affect any of your scores?

[@roskapostikohde4594]

I used to draw Turing machines on a uni course half my lifetime ago. Not really what this game sounds like to me, but I love the theme and the use of punchcards (as romanticized as the idea I have of them is). This game sounds like what I want to try out and maybe someone else in my CS grad gaming group does as well.

[@ryanbartlett672]

Thinking about the 110% joke and rebuttal...I too have been annoyed by this phrase (and I believe Chris knew it was illogical to say about a logic game), BUT I just realized another angle on this phrase: each unit can only give 100% but giving 110% could mean 1.1x or 10% more. So, this game looks like it is giving at least 150%, or 50% more, logic than other games categorized as "logic games" 😊

[@ryanbartlett672]

Oh and thanks for the video. I love deduction, so will be getting this someday soon.

[@sdeeyoktar8442]

reminds me of black sonata

[@maverickdelta]

I would like to ask a question to Mike. If the punch cards were replaced with « Prof. Plum », « Miss Scarlet », « Col. Mustard », … , « Revolver », « Rope », « Wrench », … , « Study », « Billiard Room », « Dinning Room », … and the question cards were adjusted accordingly, say « Room is a corner/side room », « In the same room as Mrs. White ». … would it work better for you? Granted, that sounds more like « Awkward Guests »…

[@tiagomarques9822]

Except that in Turing Machine you have more control, and are not subject to bad card draws or to the other players not wanting to trade information with you. But I get your point and I mostly agree with it.

[@gurnblanston2848]

My concern with Turing Machine is that it sounds perfect for me; I'm practically drooling waiting to get to those logic puzzles, but.... I don't think it's going to work for, or be fun for, anyone else in my play group. I'll give it a shot, and if no one loves it but me, I guess it will be a solo game for me.

[@JorWat25]

Yeah, that's kinda how I feel about it. I will absolutely love this (already ordered a copy), but I suspect that I'll struggle to find anyone to play against. Though having tried to see just how far you can push the "the conditions will always generate a single code" and "every condition is required to find the code" rules, and managing to solve one six-condition problem just from the list of verifiers (turns out there was literally only one set of conditions that fit both those rules), I can easily see myself spending ages on a single puzzle just trying to use as much deduction as possible. I will definitely be one of those people trying to beat the AI's score.

[@JorWat25]

I am extremely keen to get this. As someone who has never lost Cryptid, this looks like the perfect game for me. Have already gone though a couple of example setups and tried to deduce as much as possible without being able to ask questions.

[@JorWat25]

Look for a thread on the BGG forums for this game called "Trying to deduce as much as possible about Problem 01 without doing any tests", where I go through a bunch of deduction to prove that even without asking any questions, only two codes could possibly be the answer. This for me almost feels like how you're 'supposed' to play it.

[@peterpan444]

Wow that is definitely next level gaming. I am so far from that, I wouldn't even know where to start. 😀

[@Mokhnaar]

Chris (Genius) on the sheet made me laugh. Want this game can't wait for the french release.

[@jean-christopherioux3546]

It should release at the same Time as the english version, Scorpion masque is a company from Québec

[@aaronstark5060]

I be wondered why about the different colored card numbers too. Makes sense now.

[@giannisc.5254]

So let me see if understand this correctly. The game seems very fun to me, but in the box they include all the physical components except they only have 20 puzzles ? Meaning that even if they don't expressly state it, this game needs the app to have content and replayability ?

[@CG_Hali]

Yes

[@trunghoang3459]

I own and enjoy Cryptid, Shipwreck Arcana, Search for Planet X, Black Sonata very much. I will definitely buy this game along with Mind MGMT.

[@retroarcadefan]

This seems well suited as an app/computer only game rather than one with any physical components. What about physical board game makes it appealing as one? 20 logic puzzles in the box and then you have to resort to an app to get more along with the strong solo is best sentiment seems to reinforce that.

[@garyfaust6769]

With Loot of Lima you can use what others learn to help you progress to the solution of finding the 2 treasures.

[@brucebush5744]

Looks just about perfect for me. This one for solo, Planet X for multiplayer.

[@PamOrl]

I can’t wait for this game to become available. Played it online - it’s right up my alley. And solo makes it an instant buy 👍

[@chuckm1961]

I own and love 'The Search for Planet X', a game with (for me) a much more engaging theme, better game play mechanics, and a logic puzzle that appears to be more complex than what this game presents (but with multiple methods to tailor difficulty level game-by-game or even have different difficulty levels for players within the same game). Also plays phenomenal as a solo game. Given that, this game holds zero interest for me. Kind of shocked that no one mentioned Planet X.

[@pearldsouza7945]

For me personally, the usage of phone doesn’t give you full experience of a board game is how I see it as. The game maybe great but I’d prefer Turing machine or tiwanaku over Planet X as it’s brilliantly designed.

[@Threshold216]

If you like logic puzzles, the Search for Planet X is great. An advantage to SfPX is that each player may set their own difficulty. I couple be on Expert difficulty and play a newbie on the wimpiest setting.

[@Chivvy695]

This looks like a quite good educational game to me. I think I like the gamification of Search for Planet X quite a bit more though.

[@RazBaz07]

I’m really interested in this, I REALLY like logic puzzles like the ones that are in MENSA type tests, but I H A T E D Cryptid. Couldn’t wrap my head around it. I found the theme too distracting with the different biomes and everything. Couldn’t solve it. So I’m so curious to see how this one will pan out. 😃 Guess I want to know If I’m Team Mike or Team Chris! 😂😂😂🤪

[@icymallard3]

I feel the same way. Cryptid had this element of memory and visual elements that I struggle with.

[@tiagomarques9822]

Although I never played it, I’m not that eager to play Cryptid, even though I’m a logic puzzle aficionado. I’ve watched it being played, though: Cryptid might be about logical thinking, but it looks to me that there are so many variables that one tends to be completely lost almost to the very end of the game. This one, on the other hand, looks like a game right up my alley, with much fewer variables but still a lot of induction to be done and thought about which are the best questions to ask at any moment.

[@steelbeard151]

The worst thing about Cryptid was that players could make a mistake and the game was ruined for everyone. Happened a lot, no fun. With Turing Machine, that can't happen! The machine doesn't make mistakes, so you can puzzle your way through it knowing other players can't ruin it. Search for Planet X is still my favorite logic game, bar none, but Turing Machine is in second place.

[@Asssosasoterora]

I think it could be much easier than they imagine to solve for the code. It is a decently complicated matrix calculation to find the solutions. But the underlying math is linear algebra.

[@Phildiculous]

I'll have to assume this is sarcasm here, lol

[@SecularStrategy]

The basic question you ask for measuring how "competitive" a game is: How do my opponent's actions affect my actions, and vice versa? For this game, I'm not seeing any answer to that question.

[@rav3style]

That definition sounds a bit too narrow to me. Same with competitive Rubik cubes. Running is competitive and has zero interaction.

[@revimfadli4666]

@@rav3style I think "how impactful your decisions and execution are to the result" would be better

[@muskyoxes]

Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I didn't get a sense of the depth of the logic from the review. "Odd and lower than 4" sounds like really basic stuff to puzzle through - you just mark off impossibilities until you're done. I have no idea where the depth is

[@thedicetower]

Well, that's an easy one. They get much more complex.

[@traceyshenanigans]

release date seems to be November 2022

[@mapanzer]

What is the added value of this game compared to simpler games like "Break the Code," where you try to guess an opponent's code and just ask _them_ questions instead of checking a cardboard grid? Also, even though I get the allure of the whole Turing flavoring, neither is this a (punch-card or otherwise) computer nor is it a Turing machine, one of the reasons being that there is no actual programming that you can do. A good example of a Turing machine "game" would be Turing Tumble, which gives an impression what an actual Turing machine toy would look like.

[@BoxOfFear]

I like deducing number puzzles. But I feel like I can play something similar on my phone for free or very cheaply

[@francisd8650]

I had a stroke when I saw Chris had 21 opened tabs on his phone XD

[@DTChrisYi]

Haha. I have a lot of guitar chords charts open!

[@JefferyHunt]

This is from the designer of Myrmes, of all things. I really LOVE Myrmes, but I may be closer to Mike’s camp on this one.

[@bobbarker3007]

I am astoundingly confused.

[@KMReviews]

Seems to me it’s a game that you would like if you like sudoku.

[@tiagomarques9822]

This game is a 10 for me, or at least a 9.5, based on watching several videos about it, and is #1 in my Wish List, but I’m with all of you in the sense that it isn’t a game for everybody. Therefore, I don’t disagree at all with Mike’s score, and I’m glad to watch such disparate but justified opinions. Thanks! (And in Chris’ explanation of the gameplay I got the right code right after the third answer, but I believe so did Chris, and he just dwindled on the problem a little longer for the explanation’s sake.)

[@LazySleestack]

I played this one time and was not impressed. I do software dev. for a living so I can see how solving a logic problem can be challenging. And it can maybe be entertaining when done right. I don't think this game has done that. I just did not find anything about this game to be fun.

[@LegoAssassin098]

I'm really interested in this - definitely a gimmick, but it's really clever!

[@suzannebrownbill9232]

All the problems with the title could have been fixed by calling it "Turing's Machine" instead of "Turing Machine"

[@Infil]

A "Turing machine" is a real thing in computer science. It's not a real punchcard device (more of a theoretical computer that can perform any calculation), but I think the catchiness of the term outweighs the fact that it's not perfectly accurate to what is happening in the game. Plus, I'm sure all computer scientists who see the game would be very annoyed and say "the correct term is Turing machine, not Turing's machine!"

[@suzannebrownbill9232]

@@Infil Oh , I realize that. I have a CS degree and a history degree. And the title rubs me the wrong way on both fronts. This game neither resembles a Turing Machine nor does it resemble the the Bletchley Park computers which didn't uses punch cards (that was generation or two down the line). But I can cut them some slack on the historical accuracy and I can envision someone at Bletchley referring to the computers as Turing's Machine.

[@Infil]

@@suzannebrownbill9232 For me personally, I can see "Turing machine" as kind of a "construct that was thought of in the early days of computing" so the mismatch between what a Turing machine really is and this punchcard thing doesn't bother me too much, because they evoke the same time period in my head. I think I'd be more bothered by the fact that "Turing's machine" doesn't match the actual CS term (even if what's happening in the game is unrelated to that term). But that's just my personal feeling on the matter.

[@suzannebrownbill9232]

@@Infil Fair enough. I know I have spent more time then I ever thought I would explaining that calico is a type of quilting fabric and not just a pattern of cat fur then I ever thought I would. 😆

[@LostOdyssey91]

This game is not made to play with others, there is no point cause you dont interact with anyone and it has a traget audience not everyone will get it and it will feel bad for them getting beaten all the time

[@kumanight]

I think just watching the overview does a good job at showing if the game is for you. I would definitely not like this game, although the design is impressive.

[@Dr_C_Smith]

55 is 110% of 50. Not that complicated, really. It’s really the same as just saying “10% more”, which is fairly common.

[@seahawksfan9168]

i'm on Mike's side, this game sucks and its not fun

[@charliedc4728]

This is not a game for me either, Mike. Boring work.

[@bratsche1980]

Wordle the board game? Just kidding…

[@artfuldodgr42]

I feel like this review is an argument for using the average score, as opposed to the highest score, when assigning the seal of excellence. You said it yourself, this might not be for everyone. I think your average better reflects that statement.

[@dpearson588]

Disagree. Mike just doesn't get logic games and feel like the score is way too negative bc he doesn't do logic games. It's like making someone that hates miniature or thematic games and saying that their score should bring down the review. Not all games are for everyone but if you clearly dislike all games of a certain type I'd say you should stop reviewing those.

[@artfuldodgr42]

What's the point of even reviewing as a panel then? Just have the person who loves it review the game. Give every game a seal of excellence.

[@DTChrisYi]

​@@artfuldodgr42 People who align with Mike's tastes will walk away from this video more informed than if I had done the review by myself. I'd say that's a value-add.

[@artfuldodgr42]

@@DTChrisYi I appreciate everyone's insight here. I just think all of the opinions should be factored into the final score. If someone saw the seal of excellence on the box later without watching the review, they might assume the game is universally loved by the Dice Tower crew. But hey, that's just one man's opionion.

[@bryansweeney3077]

@@artfuldodgr42 Before they did the 4-person reviews, they would generally have the person who liked the game the best do the review, so the seal of approval/excellence would be based solely on their opinion. Basing the seal of approval/excellence on the highest of the 4 ratings is in keeping with that

[@ryanthered5915]

my eyes have glazed over. you need to be on the nerd spectrum to really want to play this. I completely understand why Tom got Chris to teach this.

[@dpearson588]

As soon as the video loaded and see Mike here I knew it was going to be negative. He just doesn't get logic games.

[@michaeldilisio557]

I like Cryptid. I like Search For Planet X. I like Tobago. This particular logic game didn’t work for me. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say I “just don’t get logic games”.

[@johannesblank1552]

@@michaeldilisio557 Judging by the comments, some of your finer points in the video review were lost on some people here ;)

[@Infil]

I think this game was built with programmers/software engineers in mind. The type of stuff you're doing in the game (effectively submitting tests to verify that your software is working, and if it's not working, determining exactly what is wrong with your input) is a very specific branch of logic that most people won't easily be able to wrap their heads around or enjoy engaging with. I don't fault Mike, or anyone, at all for "not getting it", but I also think the people who do really like that sort of thing will enjoy this game and that was reflected accurately in the video's discussion.

[@dpearson588]

@@michaeldilisio557 Fair. I'm coming from seeing you play and or review Shipwreck Arcana so based it upon that. Also with your comments of your brain just doesn't work that way.