Terraforming Mars: Turmoil Review - with Tom Vasel

[@gaspargaso1728]

Prelude > colonies and turmoil > Hellas & Elysium > Venus next We play with all the expansions and it takes us 4-5 hours with the setup. We play with drafting both project cards(each generation) and prelude cards Venus next is necessary if you are playing with colonies because they add floater cards. We like turmoil because your really have to think ahead what you are going to play and when you are going to play it...it requires more thinking. Hellas & Elysium are good if you play frequently and want to mix things up ( It is good but nothing special...it adds two boards...Elysium which is faster than the base game and Hellas which is slower than the base game...we like the base game board the best, and Hellas board the least) Colonies are nice because they also help you to establish a tactic from the beginning in relation to the colonies drawn( players depend less on future draws of cards that might help them...less luck) Prelude is essential but should be drafted

[@alecgalbraith5604]

This is the first TM expansion that I don’t feel is necessary to add every game, and this is coming from someone who LOVES TM and has played it to death.

[@pedrojustice]

Word. And I love t.m. too, backed it in the kickstarter. My group (now in virtual play) absolutely hated the negative feels. "Yeah, we can fall freaking deimos, but oh noes, burocracy" And I ver the mechanic, its not that bad. But half of the events are Just negative. Oh just check the speedbump. And the bonuses are só little (like worth 1 TR, after all), they be a importante part of your engines

[@taserrr]

@Cabal Paxiarch In that case just print the corporations?

[@ServiceDogPuppyRaiser]

I only got the kickstarter of turmoil for the new boards. Was gonna buy ones from etsy for same price so figured might as well get these with new content instead. TM is one of our favorite games!!

[@nandotemplo]

Terra mystica?

[@jonathana6298]

Same. Jumped into Terraforming Mars with Turmoil KS. I’m finally unboxing it now (coronavirus pandemic and all). I’m thinking Base Game + Prelude + Turmoil Stretch Goals and leave the rest of the expansions out? Sound good?

[@Andrewgen17]

@@jonathana6298 You are missing soooo much with Colonies. Colonies is so good!

[@chadikewood2342]

I think the negative events and loss of TR that some people complain about, is an attempt to appease the most consistent complaint I've read about both Venus & Colonies. That when you include either of them, Some play groups just ignore those two. For turmoil, If you don't want to get hit with a negative event or you want stay even on the TR loss don't ignore the Turmoil board. In our group all players utilize it. Maybe not everyone at the same time. But enough interaction for chairman for TR or Influence for event bonus or negate negatives. It keeps things interesting and seems to get around that "ignore" issue for some expansions. JMHO. Great game in which ever puzzled expansion inclusion combo you prefer.

[@pjpaella]

My sentiments are the same as Tom's. Too many negative aspects pushed into players, especially if you get a string of negative cards. Big feel bad play. We're considering ditching the -1 TR per turn penalty too. Why can't an expansion for a game with cards just be more cards? Would love lots more corporations, prelude cards, and project cards.

[@borreholic]

I think the global events "stir the pot" in a good way. Shouldn't terraforming a new planet come with some setbacks? I think the more you like the multiplayer-solitaire aspects of this game (not me), the more you'll dislike something like the global events coming in poking you in the armpits and disrupting you and your masterplans. Myself I just feel it's refreshing.

[@alecgalbraith5604]

Bernie K I hear your point, but I found the net effect of Turmoil was minimal other than adding more time. Since you lose 1 TR every round and lots of the events are negative, all the positive benefits you get from Turmoil basically take your game state back to normal. And, unlike the previous 2 expansions that added a new mechanic/parameter (Colonies and Venus) where you could ignore that aspect of the game completely, in Turmoil you HAVE to participate because you get at least 1 free delegate every generation and you have to resolve the event deck every gen too. This takes time. Combine these two things, and the end result is adding 20-30 minutes to your game to play a mini game that has little affect on the outcome of the actual main game.

[@pedrojustice]

I hear your pointer. But the negatives just feel way worse than they actually are. They are as inconsequential as the rulling policy. They add time for sure. Also, many players like the optimistic flavour of the game. You can capture comets to change the climare, but oh noes... theres nothing to do for a crisis you see comming for a whole generation. I agree It add interaction, thou

[@Fighterfan69]

I wasn't sure about this one. I got the KS version because of the the recessed boards, more corporations and promos. I guess kind of worth it. It wasn't bad for the price. The concept is interesting but I agree it adds too much to an already long game that most tableau builders can already create. Especially combo-centric TM can be. All in all a good expansion. Surprisingly have yet to get Colonies.

[@StevenStJohn-kj9eb]

I'm applauding your review with all three arms.

[@TofuMeOnce]

100% agree. It's a cool concept but the length it adds to the game is not worth it. We also ditched the dropping-your-TR by 1 thing because it was getting really frustrating, especially in the early game since you often aren't raising your TR (if at all) by more than 1 or 2 each turn. It also requires the most maintenance of anything, especially between generations. It used to be do your production, raise the colonies by 1, then deal the cards and go. Now you have to do the current event, swap out the chairman, raise their TR by 1, implement the bonus, put all the ruling party delegates back, designate the new dominant party, shift all the events over, place two more neutral delegates, and NOW you can move on to the next generation. I'm glad it exists but I think 90% of future TM games I play will be without this one.

[@NycLogics]

Enough expansions for TM. Bring on terraforming mars legacy. That’s what I want.

[@ryantuck5716]

That would be hot

[@Emsworth377]

"Prelude part 2, i'm in!"....your wish just came true, Tom!

[@Th0rvidTheViking]

The one reason that this was an instant back for me on Kickstarter was that version included recessed player boards that fixed the problem with cubes sliding everywhere. With the pledges being about the same price as other fixes that already existed, it was a complete no brainer. The actual expansion feels like a total bonus on top and I don't even know that I care if it's good or not lol.

[@carlosacevedo9818]

Definitely glad for the kickstarter version of this box. The recessed player boards was a really nice stretchgoal

[@jameskrolak]

I've anxiously been waiting for this review. And it's a great, honest take on the expansion. Let it never be said that Tom loves every game/expansion he reviews.

[@TiagoRamosVideos]

Love your reviews Tom👌

[@benlauson555]

This expansion is ok, and that's it. I don't understand all the 10/10s on bgg.

[@taserrr]

That's why I try to look at acclaimed critics instead of regular people. Just like with movies with rotten tomatoes, you give either 100% or 0% and there's no inbetween, same thing goes for many amateur reviews, if they like it it's gonna get 10/10 quite often which is ridiculous, it's not perfect so why give it 10/10? It's why on sites like this you can see superhero movies that are very average movies but just because they like the theme and hype it has an average of 90% rating, whilst actual amazing movies with great plots, acting and cinematography get less...

[@scottelam3726]

Sounds just like the new boards for Scythe... not needed unless you're already hard core.

[@alecgalbraith5604]

Scott Elam absolutely. I think it’s a fine expansion to mix things up every once in awhile, but certainly not an expansion I’d suggest to anyone unless they’ve already played TM to death.

[@swvi9459]

Vanilla versions of Scythe and TM are not that good. With ALL expansions, and only with ALL expansions, they are great

[@Zersetzor]

This sounds a bit like what my friends and I found about Venus. That one felt very badly integrated with the rest of the game, and we would often just ignore terraforming Venus altogether. They remedied this wonderfully with Colonies, and I think TM is at its best with all the current expansions included, while we would often play without Venus before Colonies was released. But there is a LOT going on already in a game of TM, and my group plays very slowly to begin with, so I'm not sure how much we would enjoy Turmoil. Odds are we will get it anyway, but we might come to regret it.

[@GregAllen-zy3em]

Can this expansion be played solo

[@ThePetz88]

Good review it mirrors my opionion on that game. TFM is my favorite game but i sold that exp after 2 plays.

[@JohnQSpartan]

Can't wait to play it. Hopefully it arrives before New Years.

[@ertai222]

So what you're saying is you don't really need this expansion if you own all the others?

[@BoardGamesNotBoringGames]

Tempted to play this without losing the 1TR each round. Stops it slowing down and feeling negative. Over the course of a 7 round game it’s a 28MC boost. Hardly earth shattering.

[@chrismusix5669]

I already like playing where new tech research only costs 2bucks. Just speeds up the game.

[@chadikewood2342]

we are tempted as well, to keep the income up to play more cards so the game doesn't slow down as much. But I think drop is also supposed to push players to go after the Chairman position a little more aggressively to get that TR back. I actually thought the expansion was really fun. It's been only one play, but we are a little concerned at the added time. If not for that or new players, I would probably add it every time for now at least.

[@nguinguingui]

Is it me or is the CC only Italian? Where's the English?

[@fishplantfish]

If you enjoy narrative in your games Turmoil adds a bunch. The text on the global event cards is interesting and fun. Solar system wide quantum internet.. yes please! It's a shame that Tom didnt mention that aspect. Probably not for new players, but a fun expansion for vets

[@Southparker42]

It's a very well integrated expansion if you ask me. Is it a must have expansion that I will play everytime with? No, but the same can be said about Colonies. If you are a big fan of the game it's a very solid expansion. I've played it twice now and both the events and the party bring interesting things to the table. Edit: I would really like them to release a bunch more Action cards and Corporations, though. And I would really like Milestone/Award markers so you could play different maps with different Milestones. In the current state if you play with Prelude Elysium is kinda unplayable Milestonewise.

[@RocketRenee46]

Is it worth buying just to add to the collection if I think I will not enjoy this expansion? I LOVE TM. Play often, but for some reason, our sessions always last 4-5 hours already!

[@Andrewgen17]

My roommate and I are in the same boat; Our sessions already take a long time. However, this is mostly due to me taking too much time to think about all of my moves and the fact that we actually do not prioritize advancing the global parameters. However, I think it is worth it to add to the collection. I bought the Kickstarter edition of Turmoil on Ebay (Mostly for the player boards). I thought about selling the rest of the expansion just because I had no interest in trying to learn the system. It took us 4 months to finally open up the cards, look at them, and actually play for the first time (last night). Even though I thought that the player boards may it worth it to begin with, I think the project and corporation cards are definitely worth it. BUT! If you haven't gotten anything yet, there is a kickstarter that just ended (www.kickstarter.com/projects/strongholdgames/terraforming-mars-big-box) and there is still the option to do a late pledge via crowdox. If you do the $0 pledge, you'll get access to buy add-ons, and with that you'd be able to buy the individual components (Either the player boards by themselves $20, Turmoil addition $25, or the Turmoil promo cards $25). It works out to exactly what I paid on ebay for all of it in one. I just figured I would share with you!

[@MuchachoC]

Instead of this expansion they should just re-release the original game in a deluxe edition, with recessed cardboard player boards, revised and better art project (the art of the main game is a joke, I think it's a consensus) and so. They would make a shit ton of money (since A LOT of people would sell their copies to grab their new, prettier version) and I think this would make the game a forever top10 on the list of best board games of all time. Terraforming Mars is an almost perfect game by itself, It doesn't need any more gimmicks added to it

[@sebastiantrost6409]

I love this expansion and will only reluctantly play without it (actually I like to play with everything). Highly recommended! This and prelude made this game one of my absolute favourites. The events forces you to prepare and timing the new ruling party can net you a huge benefit! I think you get influence for every party leader, not just the one of the leading party.

[@Popcornio]

Sebastian Trost Only the party leader of the ruling party gets an influence. The rules specifically says, “Owning the leader of the Dominant party gives 1 influence.”

[@alecgalbraith5604]

You might be getting confused with the end game points. At the end of the game, you get points for all the party leaders you have. However, for influence purposes, only the dominant party and the chairman matter.

[@datalink7]

What happened to the first upload?

[@tjamesfree]

Excellent review! Playing TM is better than blowing money on a night of debauch, now if I could only get off this planet... I think one more expansion could be justified: "Borealis: Northern Waste" featuring great cooperative play, more abundant resources, and cool corporations etc...

[@SimulationKris]

I prefer this to colonies to be honest. Turmoil adds more flavor and I would gladly replace Colonies with this expansion. The only negative for me would be the added time

[@kanedafx]

I use only this and Prelude. I feel like Venus just waters down the deck, and Colonies adds a lot of time but for very little payoff. I would never play this and Colonies. Way too long. But I prefer what this adds to the game than what Colonies adds which is quite boring imho.

[@marcusleja7133]

I evaluate game reviewers for their interest in rough cynicism and multi-player politics in their games. If a reviewer thinks "they're not fun", they usually like multi-player solitaire nonsense. I want a game system that has a real game *and* the players interacting in both helpful and hindering ways.

[@marcusleja7133]

Recommended title for fun, rough cynicism: the new Deluxe Edition of Age of Steam. Start negotiating with other players, you're going to need their help.

[@randomfleming]

Wait! You review reviewers? Isn’t that redundant?

[@iamspamus8784]

OMG. You give me conniptions when you dump out the game pieces at the start of your game. All I can think is "What are you doing to 'MY PRECCCCCIOOUUUSSSSSSEEEESSSSS'?" :)

[@bernardorippe7024]

Sounds like something that Terraforming doesn't need or I will never play actually....

[@drbasseri]

Why was this even kickstarted....

[@S.L.INK.13]

Yashar - because i paid 50% more for the kickstarter than if it were retail, plus i will probably get it after it hits store shelves, and finally, they dont need to share profits with retailers or distributors. So everyone wins as long as you only count (in this case) stronghold. I am sick of kickstarter.

[@drbasseri]

@@S.L.INK.13 damn. That got to me lol

[@WilliamBrothers]

I highly disapprove of the review. I know I'm likely in the minority, but I feel like Turmoil adds a storyline to the game while playing and is almost like a mini-game that can definitely influence corporations when played right. It is my favorite expansion, but I can see why others may not like it.

[@timstimbre9762]

The way I see it, Turmoil is an expansion that cannot be ignored when you add it in. It adds flavor, complexity and duration to the game. This makes for a lengthier more involved game. This will divide your gaming group about including it in most games. However: I think it's great and ties the game to the books wonderfully. It's the one expansion that you would have to make a conscious decision to add in, whenever you play, that's all.

[@chrismusix5669]

I wasn't planning on get TM: Turmoil as I already have enough expansions for the game. But let me see if Tom can convince me to buy it anyway... :watches video: Nope. And btw - wouldn't the Kelvinists be predestined to always win the game?

[@randomjunk1977]

Calvinists

[@stefansibbes2440]

Prelude enhances the game experience. Hellas and Elysium add variety. Colonies add strategic options. Its 2 extra actions basically. Feels modular but my group liked it! Venus Next and Turmoil add nothing but bloat and detract from the actual game and theme of Terraforming Mars. They're both bad expansions tbh.

[@swvi9459]

I disagree with this review. I would never play TM without ALL expansions. TM without EVERY expansion is not that good of a game.

[@timometsanoja9666]

Venus was another side track from the core game... Turmoil is another side step... Prelude was incredible. Colonies advanced the game forward as well... Ill play with Turmoil, but the political thing was poorly done. The global events should be a choice for the chair man to make, maybe choose one effect or the other... And not just "this happens" like it is now. And losing TR is not fun. You are ground to halt and your money production is severely hindered... The first minus TR is like -10 for the game... And you maybe get a 3 mil bonus for it... And there is a lot of maybes here, I feel like the minus TR is too harsh. Maybe have the "free representative" cost 1 ME and and not touch the score... Basically the games Ive played with Turmoil have been a struggle to find to 2 TR in a round to move up on the score track and I have seen players being at 18 TR at turn 6... You start at 20... Adds that grindy feeling to the game that it surely does not need. Am not a big fan, but Ill play it, it is still Terraforming Mars... One of the best games out there.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Game is too long as it is. Adding another 30+ min to the game is just too much and negative events are never fun.

[@marcusleja7133]

Terraforming Mars was the best release of 2016. Nothing wrong with an expansion that gives its big fans something fresh to explore.

[@69robtaylor]

Terraforming mars is my favourite game. I hate this expansion, well the government thing anyhow. It bloats they game far too much, it’s distracting from the main game and really hurts your TR rating.

[@gaillardlionel]

No interest in that one... hard pass. First TM expansion I will not buy. Agree with the other comment: bring on the legacy expansion!

[@WoogieBoogie03]

Totally unnecessary cash grab expansion.