Top 10 Games that Need to be Dethroned

[@RossEphgrave]

You guys need to do this list yearly and show what has changed. In 2019 this list would likely be drastically different

[@tc3p]

I would love to see a follow-up to this video on whether the game has now been dethroned and by what.

[@Lucas.Blevins]

Agreed!

[@bryansweeney3077]

"I'm looking for that trick-taking game that's played everywhere!" I'm guessing the Crew would be the dethroner there

[@revimfadli4666]

I'm guessing that Splendor would be gang murdered by Century, Azul, and Happy City

[@BoardInTheHouseBGAplayer]

2022 here still wanting a revisit!

[@t1s2m3a4]

Adding to the list of viewers that would like a follow-up to this video.

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

Zee's comedic timing was ON POINT this video. ..."hate to keep bring it up"

[@wroot_lt]

Inflatable terrain must become a thing! :D

[@FatManWalking18]

is that being esoteric?

[@gamecadet8679]

Zee is the man!

[@Sannop24]

I completely agree. The comedic banter is worth as much as any game advice.

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

***** I feel like that's one of the reasons they are so well\highly regarded besides the clear knowledge about the industry and games. If they actually had training in comedy I could only imagine the content they produce. If you have ever seen the Game Grumps table flip they play board games but have improv training and it's absolutely fantastic.

[@AvlShirkus]

Sam: "I'm not really a grumpy person..." LOL

[@RGcrasyRG]

Throat punch incoming :D

[@Fissi0nChips]

He just plays one on KZbin.

[@thesummoning14]

Has he never watched the videos he is in

[@matthewharris-levesque5809]

Codenames: Pictures is actually harder to play as the codemaster, but on the other hand, it avoid the accidental uttering of the wrong word. In either case, I think the whole idea of "people sitting around staring at the cards" means your group hasn't yet learned to trashtalk and confuse the other team during their turn. Adds a whole bunch more stress. We don't even use the timer. The main appeal is that the game serves large groups of new players, and it's easy to slip people into the game if they arrive late.

[@mattromo]

As someone who worked at a newspaper that tried to get rid of the bridge column. The paper got so many complaints bridge was brought back the next week.

[@alaeriia01]

Matthew Romanada Cribbage is a far better card game.

[@XRay44]

Chess is also public domain. Literally anyone can produce a copy and sell it.

[@almisami]

So is Go, a much better game mechanically...

[@Ferkiwi]

@@almisami or backgammon and its variants, a clever mix of dice and skill.

[@revimfadli4666]

@@almisami isn't Arimaa even more complex yet easier to learn? Though I recall its commercial use is still limited

[@namelessfire]

7 years later and Codenames, El Grande, Chess, and (for me) Kingdom Death have still not been replaced.

[@arjanang]

- The big 'squares' that you can use with poker are called plaques. :) - I like Codenames, and I always tell people to think out loud. The codemaster can't react of course or think out loud but it's amusing nevertheless to hear the players associate. It doesn't need to be a silent game imo.

[@speedandstyletony]

Tom's #7 "I want a fast fun racing game that everyone is talking about." - after 6 years it's finally here, "Heat pedal to the metal"!

[@Mentat1231]

As an avid chess-player (I do the daily puzzle on chess.com and the tactics training, I play online almost every day)... Chess needs to be dethroned. It has the highest throne of any game in existence: Internationally played at tournament level... respected as though it indicates a person's intelligence... openings, mid-game principles, endgame all analyzed and memorized and named... Any number of two-player abstracts could be just as idolized, memorized, and equated to a person's IQ; it is an accident of history that it was chess and not Hive or any of the Gipf games, etc. It's one of my favorite games, but it's really time for another abstract to take the stage. It's been time for that for hundreds of years.

[@Bryan-fn6lp]

Mentat1231 I love playing chess with real people. But I just don't have the desire to memorize openings and study books about it. The worst thing is, it's hard to find people like me. Most people have no interest in playing it or they're addicted. Life is too short, so I prefer to play simpler games with my family and friends. IMO, it is the greatest board game of all time, though.

[@alaeriia01]

I nominate Go. It's just as pretentious.

[@KrazuulLevioth]

Shogi is so much better then chess. It dethroned chess for me. 'Nuff said :)

[@psicomush]

Trench, based on the WW1, is the next chess to be dethroned!

[@Mrshagrath666]

I think its actually very sad what Sam said about KDM. Dice tower is a source of information and review, and a reference to me. When I was thinking about investing money on KS campaign, I hoped to find something here, but coudn´t find even a note. Its a shame the hate coming from Sam, without even playing the game, just because of the theme. The miniatures on the base game aren t even offensive in any way, he sould inform himself. Besides a boardgame, a hobby that we all love, earning 13 milion bucks on KS should be a motive to celebrate.

[@xnoobyx]

lol it's okay I've never take anything seriously from Sam.

[@jonofpdx]

Eh--it seems like some of the Dice Tower guys (Sam especially) seem rather effected by what they consider to be "offensive" or "uncomfortable" content in some games. That's totally fine if they're just some guys doing KZbin videos. That's terrible to the point of negligence if you consider them journalism. In reality...they're somewhere in the middle (they DO receive funding beyond just KZbin ad revenues, but they also do not portray themselves as impartial journalists). Ultimately, I think Dice Tower just isn't the source for detailed and/or impartial coverage on games with certain content. Yeah, it's kind of annoying hearing that something should be "dethroned" because...it's too popular/pervasive when it wasn't played due to personal concerns. But I'm not sure it's fair to hold these guys to more impartial, "fair" coverage if they've never presented themselves as such. Though the fact that Sam now DOES host full segments on the channel rather than just sitting in as "Tom's friend" DOES lean him slightly into a more formal role.

[@johna6108]

Daniel Rosini and the reasoning was just blah. I mean, KDM had maybe 4 weeks where it was prominent. Rising Sun is probably much worse in that regard.

[@inuinuinuinuinu]

Is "sad" really the right word here? i can understand that you're disappointed, but KDM just doesn't really fit with the Dice Tower's brand as i see it. Aren't there other reviewers you can trust to give you information about that game? KDM doesn't seem to have needed the Dice Tower to succeed. Why should the Dice Tower need KDM? There are so many other sources online if there's a game that the Dice Tower hasn't covered..

[@Mrshagrath666]

Actually for me it is....I kinda give a damn about what the guys on DT have to say about games, and it pisses me off seing people giving then a hard time because of their christian beliefs.Guess its just the case of expectations not met =D

[@EamonBurke]

About Codenames: I think it's a fine example of the "magic" that a game can have. It goes against reason to resist playing or introducing people to it, because it's so widely loved. That said, I think I enjoy it only about half as much as everyone else, and less every time I play. I like it okay, especially at 4 players, but I'm stunned how much everyone likes it. I think the success of the game can be attributed to, primarily, 2 things(keep in mind, this is off-the-cuff, I really could talk about this for an hour): It's pretty easy to grasp, so players who don't want to invest mentally in a game get to the delightful struggle without much work. It rewards a shared sense of identity. Players always attribute their successes this way. It's never "I picked up your clue from this other clue and pieced the message together"(though that is totally plausible), it's usually "we're winning because we're all sports fans" or "I am just on the same wavelength as you". We had a game recently where it was men vs women. The women are all schoolteachers and/or moms, and the guys are a mixed bag. The women got a clue "Independence Day:2" (sketchy clue, I know), and immediately got "alien" and "fighter". While trying to throw them off the trail, I suggested "England", which they weren't considering. I thought it would be a big risk, might just be the right answer I'm tipping them off to. Instead I got blank stares and looks of confusion. Not one of them could imagine how England would have anything to do with Independence Day. When I clued them in later, they said "well, I guess. That's more about America than England", and got a look of "yeah, that's right" from all around. It wasn't a clever strategy, a successful communication, or an in joke. What won the day was a shared kind of outlook. You'll win if your team are all non-video gamers playing off the clue "Nintendo" and skipping word "cartridge" in favor of "crash". That feeling of being rewarded by seeing what you have in common with other people is powerful and resonates deeply.

[@KingFatBurger]

How about a "Tremors" hidden movement game where multiple creatures need to find the humans on the surface? :D

[@ZeeGarc]

YES!

[@codeman99-dev]

Sorry. Sounds too much like battle ship when I think about it.

[@jrgena.m.berthelsen2730]

A good base for the hidden movement mechanics could be Escape the Aliens in Outer Space.

[@steelman774]

Great idea! Let’s develop it. They did something similar recently with Jaws 🦈

[@revimfadli4666]

@@codeman99-dev except instead of you probing enemy locations, the prey generate noise by themselves

[@josiahdavoli5157]

Tom: Thus games kinda old DETHRONE IT!Sam: This game has too much hype DETHRONE IT!Zee: This game is too long and fidly DETHRONE IT!

[@krum1985]

Munchkin needs to be dethroned by an actually good game... I like the humour of Munchkin, but the game is waaaaay to long, and all the fun gets zapped out of it.

[@Vanator36]

Check out "Red Dragon Inn." Much better game that feels fun from the get go. Munchkin is boring as can be until someone gets to level 8 or so.

[@marcelliebreich5430]

Pure Trading? Chinatown!

[@simba2k8]

Agreed. Also, Lords of Vegas has a good bit of trading in it as well.

[@bradlittman2761]

Pit is a pure trading game. haha.

[@Schasm]

Just saw this after I commented, throw in another agreed.

[@oninoyakamo]

Chinatown is my favourite also and it's been around for almost 20 years. I can't believe these guys haven't played it yet. They must have just forgotten it.

[@Steve-L]

You know I was taught Lords of Vegas with 2 people who had played it before. But they played with very little trading, ha, I won the game and showed them the power of trading. I did a lot of trading and probably opened their eyes. Great game, not sure if it's a beginner game like Catan tho.

[@cthulwho8197]

The good thing with Sentinels is that you are one hero, with Legendary you could be fielding four different heroes. And the other players are playing the very same heroes as you are. There's no personal investment, no role play as it were.

[@terrywardlaw2156]

Tom the best trick playing game is Euchre. So much faster and better then bridge or hearts. I know it's heavily played here in Michigan. I remember tables of ppl playing it in high school at lunch time and parties.

[@GameWeekendChalbie]

Terry Wardlaw it’s really popular here in Indiana too

[@atomiccritter6492]

I think the trouble with Bridge is that IF you play it with all the weird(?) conventions of bidding and scoring its quite a pompous game...strip that away and its a good partnership card game...possibly the best

[@Beersson0]

Chess Boxing is an Henki Bilal invention (real good French Bande-Dessinée creator and designer). It appeared in his comics in the late 90's and early 2000 and then was adaptated as a sport by fans. Great video, thanks !

[@ronniegirardot9613]

Dethrone Scrabble? if your talking mechanics then Qwirkle. If you're talking words then letter tycoon.

[@atomiccritter6492]

not really its not been dethroned possibly because it is actually a good game

[@atomiccritter6492]

@@readilium3432 you sound like an elitist modern gamer who cannot accept that games like Scrabble and Monopoly are actually enjoyable to a lot of people

[@mattrodda1975]

Just a quick word about Chess-Boxing (from an old chess player). They're more closely related endeavours than you might think. Lennox Lewis, for example, is a strong chess player who funds after school chess clubs. I've never boxed, but I've read that they share core skills - delivering fundamentals under intense pressure, understanding movement, position and strategy, or increasing one's strength through training. What at first glance seems like a ludicrous idea actually makes a decent amount of sense. Just saying. Peace x

[@Lutalmas]

MONOPOLY! WHERE?!

[@mr.horseshoe2301]

Kingdom Death: Monster really is a fantastic game, especially for a huge fan of Final Fantasy Tactics like myself. The only criticisms I have are the prohibitive price (my gaming group had to combine funds to buy it) and the unforgiving insta-death dice rolls (we just ignore those). Sam is usually my favorite reviewer, but it's sad to see him hating on a game he hasn't even played.

[@inuinuinuinuinu]

it seems to me that sam is reacting to the hype more than the game that he hasn't played. hype is super annoying (and i know the DT contributes to it just like everyone else on the internet). i haven't played food chain magnate, and probably would enjoy it, but i'm so turned off by everyone saying it's the best thing since sliced bread, that alone is enough to make me never want to play it. it sounded to me like sam was coming at KDM from a similar angle, added to the fact that he's turned off by the theme.

[@Redfoxe]

"hype is super annoying" Tell me about it, like with Mechs & Minions. Atleast its rather afforrdable compared to KD:M

[@Alluvian567]

Yeah, I spent less on Mechs vs Minions than I spent on Caverna, and it was easier to get as well (lots of material shortage issues when caverna came out). Fun game for sure, I am loving it. I think it deserves most of the hype it is getting. The box which gets praised actually annoys me a little bit though. the super nice inserts mean it takes up more space and makes the box stupidly big when it really does not need to be that big. maybe if you paint all your minions, but with just the nice wash on them, there is no reason they can't be just crammed in a compartment. It would be way more convenient and space saving. They are made out of a similar plastic as blood rage minis and are pretty much indestructible.

[@johnburk879]

I feel that it's worth it to point out that good games deserve a little bit of hype. I am currently in for the KD Kickstarter... but the only reason that I heard about it in the first place was because of my uncle referring me to 'this crazy nerdy intense game'. I am by no means rich or much of an impulse buyer. HOWEVER, in extensive reading, I did not see a bad review. The worst thing that I read was, "yes, it is expensive. If you get it and decide that you hate it, chances are you can still sell it for a profit". Not compelling, but with my love of board games and tabletop games (especially cooperative ones), it didn't seem like something that I wanted to pass up on. I have loved watching dice tower and seeing their reviews on games for years. I couldn't be much more dissapointed about Sam throwing down a game just because of hype though. After all, as a very successful KZbin channel, it is actually their job to create hype, thus they shouldn't be complaining too hard when people are content with their purchase and are excited to see the creator be successful. My two pence. Sorry that it's long.

[@jwsjourney]

Tech Rapter, Board game Brawl put it at #1 of all time and The Kwarenteen wanted to put it number one, but it didn't hit the table enough, It was his #3), Drive thru reviews loved the game, Forged by geeks love the game and The Regulars love the game.

[@erikdweber]

Sam said he never heard anyone say about how good kingdom death is, but that is all I ever hear about the game

[@Thrasholis]

me too

[@evergreen_monster]

I would argue it's also the number one reason why they keep hearing about it: it's an amazing game that should be played by anyone who calls himself a reviewer or pretend to be a catalyst for the hobby. And let's all reiterate it again (to no avail, I know): the erotic/mysoginist/uber disgusting models are NOT PART OF THE MAIN GAME nor lore, and MANY, MANY, MANY KDM players (myself included) couldn't care less about them.

[@davidandersson7642]

Oh man. Betrayal is my number one. That was a good choice.

[@jonofpdx]

Betrayal is up their with Consulting detective as games that just INFURIATE me. Like, you have these amazing old games that keep getting reprinted but the publisher NEVER FIXES THE PROBLEMS. In Betrayal, it's the wonky rules, in Consulting Detective, some typos that have legit made me waste HOURS over the course of all 10 cases.

[@BothGabor]

Yeah, I'd love something like that that's a proper game. Like, Last Night on Earth mechanisms or something.

[@jonofpdx]

BothGabor I get that Betrayal's variable system makes it kind of hard but--Christ, it shouldn't be THAT hard to make a coherent game out of it. Mansions of Madness does well (granted, with much less variety). Or hell, just slap a roleplaying dice engine in it and a brief one-page rules explanation of each scenario and you're off. I mean, if we can have games like 504 work pretty well out of the box, how is Betrayal constantly stumbling out of the gate?

[@nyiridonat]

@@jonofpdx I know it's a 2 year old discussion, but do you know anything about Betrayal at Baldur's Gate? Does it maybe fix any of the mentioned problems?

[@jonofpdx]

@@nyiridonat Haven't played it, I'm afraid. Not sure.

[@SuperJogul]

Nothing will ever overthrow the god emperor of mankind. NOTHING

[@JayJay-pu2gx]

"They literally sell a Scrabble dictionary!" "Is it really a dictionary?" "No. It's just a bunch of words." (whispering) "So is a dictionary."

[@gavincaldwell6479]

I love it when Tom is ranting about scrabble meanwhile Zee is hopelessly trying to explain to Sam what “Qi” is 😂

[@DarknessProphet]

Imagine Scrabble being combined with Battleship: You just sank my perspicacity!

[@Michael-ur4nt]

I'm surprised Sam has never heard anything good about Kingdom Death Monster. It has a really high rating on BGG and is pretty well acclaimed by most who have had the opportunity to play it. I feel like Sam is turned off by the Horror aspects and won't give it a fair shake. Which is unfortunate. I like watching Sam's reviews because I am a fan of miniature games, and of all the people up there he should see the merits of the quality of the miniatures, even if he has never played the game. Yes they are on par with GW, both make amazing figures.

[@terrisilvers]

Watching in 2024, in the middle of Mike Dilisio's "trick-taking renaissance"

[@RobRandolph80]

Kingdom Death is actually a really great game. The problem is that it's basically a Games Workshop level investment to play it. The reason you don't hear about it is because there's still fewer than 10,000 copies in world. The new kickstarter will help change that and you'll start hearing about how good (or bad) it is from people.

[@GrandGobboBarb]

I love how he said Fury of Dracula was too complex to play with mom and dad, and it's the first board game I've ever managed to get my parents to play and want to play again.

[@AlexR2648]

"I want 'Words With Enemies'" Simpsons already did it. "You sunk my Scrabbleship!"

[@maxjahns6536]

Wow you kind of nailed the games that were iterated on over the past 4 years

[@jameskane6124]

I've never spent a dollar on Kingdom Death Monster, but I have had a chance to play it many times. It is an exceptional game. It is easily one of the best games I have ever played.

[@Zersetzor]

If you want competitors for trick-taking games, I'd recommend the two most popular classic card games in Germany: Skat and Doppelkopf (double head). Skat is a highly technical game, where skilled players are almost guaranteed to win any hand but the most busted distributions. Doppelkopf is superficially familiar, but it is a much more chaotic sort-of co-operative game.

[@pbh1963]

Idiotic comment from Sam about not liking and getting tired of hearing about Kingdom Death: Monster. Says he's never played it, and doesn't care about playing it. It's one of the best all around campaign board games that have been made. Lots of strategy and decision making. I understand if he's being a prude about the adult theme of the game, but the game mechanics are top notch. It has one of the highest ratings on Boardgamegeek that I have ever seen, mid 9's and climbing. Just don't make a blind judgment on a game based on your personal moral compass or whatever.

[@DanielDavissynthman]

Sam, I've been playing games since red box D&D in the early 80s, and KDM is the single best game I've ever played. Nothing comes close to matching its atmosphere and theme, and nothing comes close in matching it's incredibly dynamic combat. It is masterful.

[@Manny-M]

Daniel Davis Your opinion will fall on deaf ears. Don't forget, you're talking to someone who wants a game 'dethroned' purely because he is sick of people talking about it and finds the theme questionable. Don't waste your time.

[@juliaspearing6949]

Is it an American thing, this obsession with theme? As a Brit, my experience is that, in general, theme isn't all that important, in relation to the mechanics of the game.

[@thedicetower]

I found that British people care even MORE about them than Americans ;)

[@DanielDavissynthman]

Julia Spearing just the opposite. I love theme more than most, but almost all of YT channels I watch that focus on thematic games are U.K. Based. Also, the kings of thematic games, Games Workshop.

[@yogibbear]

Good theme makes good game mechanics a better game.

[@PMMagro]

It seems so, together with making huge boxes and too value a game for cardboard per USD.

[@jonofpdx]

Kind of? But to be honest, as a US/UK joint citizen who has lived and gamed in both parts of the world I would include GB into that love of theme over more dry, elegant Euros. Like, personally I like both and have plenty of games in my collection with a pretty paper-thin theme. But...theme's still important. It can absolutely polish an "okay" design into a gem of a game overall. And when the theme works in a really GOOD design...it can elevate a game to levels that design alone just can't achieve.

[@zephy64]

Zee...you described Royals when looking for a game to replace El Grande :P

[@samnichols3429]

I was scrolling though the comments to see if anyone mentioned this, before I did myself.

[@jonathanmcanulty5142]

I didn't scroll down far enough. I said the same thing when I heard his #7.

[@cursivecurses]

Bryan Connelly was just doing the same thing. I assumed he had played all the Dice Tower Essentials!

[@goyasolidar]

I think Zee is missing the point with Dead of Winter as far as how the game makes everyone look like a traitor. He says he wants to excise that dynamic from the game, but the fact that each player is keeping an eye out for a possible double-cross while advancing their own agenda IS already shaping story subplots within the greater narrative of Dead of Winter. Nothing will ever change the overarching tale -- a group of isolated survivors huddled together in the cold and fending off undead hordes -- that's more or less fixed and dictated by the game's thematic design and components. It's the context of each individual's actions and how their decisions play out from moment to moment within that environment that creates a unique and memorable story.

[@jonofpdx]

I get that. I understand WHY the mechanic exists from both a thematic and gameplay standpoint (and I assume Zee does as well). I still can't stand that mechanic. By giving players the hidden agendas that DO NOT match how the player may WANT to act in a given scenario from a gameplay AND thematic point of view, your working at cross purposes with player agency (which I think of as more important than hiding the traitor). I would much rather INCENTIVIZE (without requiring) players to take more suspicious actions to more organically replicate that mistrust and confusion. But then you would probably have to allow for a beefier traitor reveal/powerset (a'la something like Betrayal or even Shadows). At which point, it's a pretty different game. That doesn't make it a BAD game. But...yeah, I would love for a game to come along that does as well as Dead of Winter does with other aspects of its themeing without that mechanic.

[@KyriosHeptagrammaton]

The only reason I like Dead of Winter is because everyone looks like a traitor. It was funny to see him complain about that.

[@nintendo917]

Infinity is a pretty good contender to dethrone Warhammer 40k, and then there's a ton of other affordable alternatives such as Frostgrave, Stargrave and Gaslands

[@calebgoodman8955]

What infinity needs is a video game, book, etc to both deepen the lore and gain a wider presence

[@Goblinfoo]

It sounds like Sam just wants people to stop talking about games they like that he doesn't.

[@Wythilogical]

What do you mean Tom? Stratego is literally chess but cool and fun and still has the same overall punch, its perfect!

[@KoalaXS]

Me thinking gloomhaven is on the list until I see the date of the video. Woops

[@DarkLeviathan8]

I hope they don't dethrone gloomhaven because I don't want another 100 hours campaign that I will never come close to finish.

[@Language42]

@@DarkLeviathan8 *Frosthaven intensifies*

[@waiting4more]

Sam's take about Pandemic Legcay is weird to me...people rate it higher than the base game because people like it more than the base game. Which is completely reasonable...it's a more interesting, more complex version of the base game. Same reason why people like Risk Legacy much more than its base game.

[@seanyoung3740]

Kingdom death monster deserves all of the hype and attention it's receiving! Even after three 8-hour sessions a week for two months with friends, we still haven't beaten the base campaign. From heartbreaking stories of your characters dying horrible deaths to constructing the perfect settlement in a well-crafted nightmare world, KDM offers a mountain of content packed with high tension and strategic cooperation. Please give it a try and don't dismiss it just because people like to talk about it!

[@SamHealey6]

There are about 4 things you listed in that paragraph that steer me even farther away from giving it a try...just not my cuppa tea, I suppose.

[@Seraphim121212]

Sean Young 24 hours a week for two months??? I guess that's no different then someone who plays video games a lot... but that's clearly not for everyone.

[@geekzolda6129]

I'd just like to point out that there's lots and lots of glowing kingdom death reviews. Have you seen BGB Nick's videos ? Anyway, I'm not that interested in the game myself, it's too expensive, and it seems to scratch the same itch as Shadows of Brimstone, which is already a pricey thing. But if I had the time and money ? I'd give it a try. Also most of the "nasty" models are just collectors items, the standard minis of the game are quite grotesque, but not really offensive.

[@insomniac21976]

You don't have to play for 8 hours at a time. Play sessions are broken up into "lantern years", which are typically 1-1.5 hours long.

[@G7D7M77]

A feast for Odin is definitely the most Viking(y) game. Because Vikings were merchants in the first place

[@Lanthanaas]

MtG absolutely needs to be dethroned. Every game shop everywhere has "Friday night Magic". The game would actually be better if it had more stagnation, in my opinion. Lately, they have been trying too hard to come up with new, "hip" mechanics to keep the game fresh and a lot of them are clunky or gimmicky. Baasically it's only on top because of the time on the market, not necessarily the quality of game. **Disclaimer: I love playing Magic, I just think there is an opening for a lot better games to dethrone it. I have high hopes for the cheaper LCG/ECG games, but they seem to have less longevity than is needed to truly dethrone MtG.

[@Vossenator]

Agreed, but to be fair though I think a lot of game shops rely very heavily on Magic Tournaments to stay afloat.

[@fingolfinfinwe]

Sam, I think you're crazy regarding the art for Alien Frontiers. The art is one of the best things about it! Retro sci-fi!

[@bruceh72]

I think I've had my annual safe dose of grumpy old man after watching this one.

[@misomiso8228]

1:01:21 what are these other strategy games?

[@dpotter2113]

Sam: I know nothing about this game... and I'm sick of it.

[@WalkerRileyMC]

That's what happens when people talk about something constantly without divulging any information about it. That's like me telling you over and over again, days upon end, that you really gotta buy this cardboard box, but I'm not going to tell you any useful information about it, like...what's in the box?

[@SlipFlip]

I consider Canasta to be an "old person game" - but when I finally learned it, I actually find it's really fun to play :-)

[@Igor_054]

That's because you got old.

[@malcomchase9777]

Sentinels of the Multiverse is my favorite game. I agree with Tom. We need superhero games to compete with it.

[@emilwedodk]

2:30: "You don't hear people talking about how good of a game it is" ... ehh? Do you think it reached the KS record without people having talked greatly about the game? It was regarded as a fantastic game before it broke that record. I am not backing it because I think it's too expensive, and the unnecessary nudity in the promos and stuff are a big turn off for me, but I still have to respect that the game is fantastic.

[@flol.1741]

I don't get why Tom wouldn't want a game to come along to dethrone Cosmic Encounter? I would love that and also a game to dethrone any and all of my favorite games... Because then I would have games to play that are even better than those! Hooray! And I really don't understand Sam picking games he doesn't like. Why would I want a game to dethrone Munchkin? That would only be a game that I dislike slightly less. I still probably wouldn't play it. I have nothing to gain from that. If you think about it logically Zee should want a game that dethrones Pandemic, Sam should pick TI3 and Tom should pick Cosmic as their top picks!

[@will0wisp258]

Catan is my number 1. Absolutely on board with Zee there. Loved Catan in my early days of gaming, but got really tired of it. And still there is no game, that gives you that feeling.

[@stormy7722]

Racing game to dethrone Formula D? Mario Kart the board game or Pod Racer. FFG could do Pod Racer. Varying player powers...different Pod builds..a selection of play mats with different tracks, cool minis, some type of pod combat or sabotage mechanism...cool.

[@andrebrynkus2055]

Toronto1967 Sounds like you need to try Steampunk Rally. A Canadian game racing game where you build your machine over the game.

[@andrewhazlewood4569]

Monopoly needs to be dethroned as the household name in Boardgames and in marketshare in non-specialty stores (target etc).

[@TheProteanGeek]

To dethrone chess you would need the game to be free for everyone to make copies.

[@OptiMystism]

I disagree. I don't think availability on that scale would make a difference. I don't think there is a better 2 player game out there at the moment. There may be more that are more fun, more thematic etc. but from a purely mechanical point of view, Chess is king of the hill.

[@SharlzG]

Can someone please tell me what the space game is that Tom mentioned - something something zoma centauri??

[@brianhall3032]

Exodus: Proxima Centauri

[@eveningchaos1]

SharlzG Exodus: Proxima Centauri

[@SharlzG]

Thanks Dan and Brian

[@Mentat1231]

If you ask Rahdo, Nations dethrones Through the Ages.

[@smoothcriminal28]

Mentat1231 ayeah, but does hr absolutely adore it ?

[@jcb3393]

11:58 - I want to see that list: Top 10 Games We Keep Meaning To Play But Never Get Around To... I'll start (my list also includes those I haven't played in a long time and would like to again): - Republic of Rome - Twilight Struggle - Zertz - Robo Rally - Splendor - Battlestar: Galactica - Sticheln - Seafarers of Catan - Shadows Over Camelot - Coup

[@PrattskiTheTabletopGamer]

I know this is an older video, but, respectfully, I think that Sam's #10 in selecting KD:M is ridiculous and clearly unwarranted. He's never played it, and he has no interest in playing it. He just wants it dethroned because he's "tired of hearing about it." If you are going to do these lists, and have a following as big as the Dice Tower has, at least be somewhat objective and have better reasoning than "tired of hearing about it". The reason he's heard about it so much is because it's a phenomenal game, and it has no reason to be dethroned. And if it does, I want to hear why someone thinks it should who's actually played it. KD:M is easily one of my favorite games of all time, and it has good reason to be there. It's an awesomely crafted game - a work of art really. My guess as to why he doesn't like it and doesn't want to play it is due to the somewhat graphic nature of some of the artwork in the rulebook. Other than that, I can't think of why someone wouldn't be willing to give it a fair shot...

[@davidgary3998]

Couldn't agree more, he came across like a salty hipster elitist haha.

[@syphaeightfive3462]

What's more appalling, to me... Is That Tom has a beef with A DECK OF EFFING CARDS... ... Also, Chess???

[@whorod8895]

Prattski The Tabletop Gamer he doesn’t say that the game itself is bad or stuff like that, he’s just sick and tired of hearing about it just because it made a lot of money on Kickstarter. What he’s saying is justified. He’s not critiquing the game.

[@Indubitably14]

I've been a Heroscape guy since the beginning. All they needed to do was throw in a board mat with the hexes and some hex pieces that are already 7 or 8 layers high. That's it. You can buy mats online and it saves a lot of time if you want to play a quick match.

[@Corgi_Butts]

If the only thing you ever hear about Kingdom Death is $$ from KS and the whining about the pin-ups and the horror themed art, then you aren't digging very deep. Just read some of the actual reviews on BGG, or look at the rating: a 9.0 with 65% of the 1730 total ratings being a perfect 10, and 90% of the ratings being an 8 or higher! It's hard to ignore feedback like that. As for my own opinion, I own the base game and all the expansions from KS1. It is far and away one of my favorite games I own and has been a hit with pretty much everyone I've had play my copy. That's ranging from teens to adults, men and women. Once you get past the gloss of the artwork and the non-gameplay pinups, the core gameplay is great. It's fast and brutal, keeps you on the edge of your seat, and once you finally succeed and haul all those sweet resources back to your settlement, the strategy and planning around what to build and how to overcome your next encounter or event is fantastic. If you are a hardcore Euro gamer you will detest the amount of luck involved or random deaths that can come at the roll of a die, but I love it. Ameritrash all the way! For the past year, KD:M has lived on my dining room table. It has only left when I take it to a FLGS or local convention, or when the family has the occasional holiday meal. It's that damned good.

[@TheGamerShelter]

I had an idea for a "top 10" list. Make each number a genre, like 10 - Worker Placement. 9 - Cooperative and so on. Then all three of you pick your favorite game of each genre and argue over why it's the best one and why people would like yours. It's kind of more like a debate, but I think it would play out very well in your Top 10 format AND it would get the best games of the biggest genres all in one video for people who would like that too.

[@MathieuVIII]

I'm really surprised there was no mention whatsoever of Monopoly, which holds, wait for it, the monopoly on family boardgame...

[@codeman99-dev]

You must be on something really good. Monopoly's staple is that any theme can be thrown on it, so it sells copies. It is *not* a stretch to say that Monopoly sells more copies per year than number of games played. Most definitely true if you only count games of Monopoly that finished. Seriously the easiest game to hate ever.

[@MathieuVIII]

99codemister Even not taking all that aspect of Monopoly into account, if we are just talking about popularity, Monopoly is still the most well-known boardgame. Since most agree it's a bad game design according to today's standards, it should be at the top of this kind of list. Then again, it's so obvious there is no point in putting it there.

[@codeman99-dev]

My point was that the game isn't even liked by casual gamers. Seriously, everyone I have ever asked has both owned a copy and disliked the game. You don't even need to compare it to "modern games". It was pretty well beaten itself down before I was even born (1990, fyi).

[@BardicLiving]

Monopoly hasn't quite been dethroned yet, but a good chunk of its kingdom has been annexed off to Catan.

[@SenseiJae]

Letters of Whitechapel - Have you played Scotland Yard? Vegas Showdown - The Killer here is Mad King Ludwig. The biggest problem with 40k is they keep changing the rules without keeping any backwards compatibility. I'd like to be able to play my Deathwing, Kult of Speed and Squats armies in modern rule sets.

[@Misiodziej]

Check out KDM Sammy, almost everyone that's actually played it is fond of the game as much as the production values.

[@OptiMystism]

I dunno, I think any game that features a knock-out mechanic of 'you rolled a 1, fuck off now and spectate' isn't a well designed game.

[@christianloken1240]

I really enjoyed playing through Pandemic Legacy, but it's basically just the campaign mode of Pandemic. it is basically a game of Pandemic that changes with some light story elements. I'd give it an 8/10, but it is not even close bring the best game there is.

[@darimm]

I dunno how Nations wasn't mentioned as a civilization game that compares to Through the Ages. I enjoy both, but Nations is MUCH shorter with 3-5.

[@dall1786]

It's also got some serious game mechanic issues that make it easy to abuse. Same goes for Clash of Cultures where the game is basically a solved puzzle. You either play it one way or you lose and if you get a barbarian village near you and your opponents don't you lose. TTA and the FFG civ version are all much better Civ games but ar elong which is what a civ game is supposed to be. Tom's off his rocker on this one.

[@TabledeTom]

The funny thing with this video is that one year later there is a star wars in the market of Warhammer 40k !!! Zee omg what a call haha

[@marknimphius1595]

BEST LINE - "I can whoop on a chess player!"

[@cecilmartin9593]

CGixbzlbz

[@misomiso8228]

26:30 what is the trick taking game he said? 'Teachu'?

[@xXMrIgniteXx]

"I hate a game I never played" I feel like you violated a reviewer code of ethics or something.

[@mattvucu6706]

Time has proven Z right about Time Stories NOT being a good replacement for Tales of the Arabian Nights

[@christaggart5687]

All my friends think board games are nerdy.... I need new friends

[@PortCanon]

Chris Taggart, sometimes nerdy friends are the best friends. 🤓 Outside of friends who play poker, I’m in the same 🚣‍♂️ boat.

[@keithhainzl8813]

Definitely never thought that Catan was a strong game because of the trading going on. I think it's the hexes, the resources and the robber that most people like about Catan! 🤔

[@wierdbob]

Oh man , thanks for reminding me how awesome Kingdom Death Monster's gameplay is. Oh man , I could go on and on but I think I need to run off and play it now.

[@rachelcollins2209]

Zee is so on point with Ghost Stories. I want to love that game, and I come back to it periodically, but MAN almost every time we manage to interpret something wrong. By the time we realize, it's already too late. Grumble grumble.

[@GTRichardson7]

they are talking about a Dune remake, so perhaps they will make a new movie version of Dune (as it would sell well alongside the movie)

[@MatroidX]

Both of these things happened :)

[@roaldfurstenberg5267]

bro predicted the future

[@YaotzinMI]

Woof, lots of comments mistaking this video for a review instead of a top ten list. Even more people getting upset about their favorite games being mentioned. Hey I like several of the games they collectively mentioned. I also would like to see every "best" game replaced because that means we got a better game. Who could argue with that.

[@DiegoDeschain]

"Hasbro should be dethroned" lmao

[@weebal7]

Haha wow. I thought this list was a fun idea and it made me laugh a lot. Then I looked at the comments and realized all that anyone else heard was that their baby is ugly. It's like criticizing someone's music. Music hits us in deep personal ways. In the same way games provide meaningful experiences and memories with friends. Funny to think that people can't separate those emotions when listening to a list like this. Especially when MOST of the time they weren't bashing at all. I felt like many of these were cheering for gaming to continue pushing itself to get better, which should always be the goal. Just random thoughts that I posted for a change.

[@GamingWithGeo]

As for Pandemic Legacy, I agree it shouldn't be number one either. It's basically just Pandemic with expansions added. I think Gloomhaven will knock it off as it's a legacy game as well for the most part but is something new to the scene. Seafall had the potential to do it, but slammed it's face in the mast so to speak. I do hope Pandemic Legacy Season 2 will add a load of new stuff to the mix.

[@jonofpdx]

I guess I don't really get the argument of "shouldn't be" or "doesn't deserve to be" number 1. I hear it a lot. Like, a lot of people love Pandemic Legacy. For a huge number of people, it is the best game they have ever played. Certainly, it's the most unique many people have played (in fairness, that will change as Legacy mechanics become more common). And honestly, it does almost nothing "wrong" (at least, it has no widely disliked single component--of course any of us may have our own personal quibbles with one aspect or another). Pandemic is a solid game that a lot of people liked. Legacy added on...a lot of extra content (avoiding spoilers here, so forgive my vagueness) and a decent, evolving narrative that tied in with the evolving gameplay. I'm having a hard time thinking of a game that does what it does, better. I do agree with Sam that I doubt Season 2 will have anywhere near the same critical acclaim, though. Looks like it may go too heavy and too "out there" for the lighter half of Season 1's audience.

[@KabukiKid]

The easy formula for why Pandemic Legacy has such a stellar rating is that it is basically a sequel to an already well-loved game. That means that only people who like the original game are going to really bother with the Legacy version, more than likely... and combine that with the fact that it does give a fun thematic experience and you have a high scoring game. The fact that it was basically a sequel to a popular game really gave it a huge boost, though.

[@jonofpdx]

KabukiKid I don't disagree, I just don't know why that's a bad thing.

[@KabukiKid]

I agree... it's not a bad thing... at least for most of us. lol I do know that it makes some people seethe seeing Pandemic Legacy sitting at the top of the list, but I understand why it is there, so it doesn't really faze me. Some people feel it somehow invalidates the ratings of other games.

[@OriginalPiMan]

Pandemic Legacy needs to be number 1. The game is amazing, but it needs to be topped... by Season 2

[@HackWeight]

Tales of the Arabian Nights with an app instead of the giant book would be a big improvement. If it'd read the choices to you, walk you through it, ask you to choose in the app, it would be a lot shorter and more fun.

[@jimbosphorus]

I reckon Sam's just crap at thinking up Codename clues!

[@endgame]

I agree with Zee about Catan but for me, i can kinda live without the whole trading thing in Catan or live without Catan in general :P

[@TheProteanGeek]

X-Wing is possibly going to be the 40k dethroner. It has woken Games Workshop up.

[@TheProteanGeek]

John W & Mikolaj Witkowski That part of the hobby appeals to the existing base (not everyone loves it though) but a new king of miniatures game doesn't need to fit all the same criteria. Games Workshop knows that now and were probably shocked when X-Wing took their number 1 sales spot.

[@KristoVaher]

Building and painting is a whole other hobby though. As a game X-Wing is a valid replacement. And many paint X-Wing still.

[@Alluvian567]

I think if Xwing was more like dragon wing, than maybe. But with just space battles I don't think so (because I think they are too different). If they decide to take the atmospheric ships of xwing and add in ground forces in a similar fashion to dragon wing and it is as popular as xwing was.... Then I think you have a VERY good argument.

[@PnzrNorm]

I would wager Armada would dethrone 40k before X-wing simply on the grounds of larger, more methodical, strategy compared to the faster-paced tactical combat of X-wing. Even if both are the same style of gameplay with their own unique flavor, I think Armada will grab 40k players' attention more.

[@TheProteanGeek]

Joe Hall it isn't about taking the spot of 40k from 40k players necessarily. The idea is taking the spot of the number 1 miniatures war game.

[@Allysongabriel1]

The part of dethrone Chess was an absurd. Chess is bigger then the whole boardgame industry! It's a sport, it's almost like you want to dethrone baseball or football.

[@antoror]

New Angeles as a quasi-BSG replacement?

[@bookertexas-ranger2059]

I miss Sam, wonder how he'd feel about Dune Imperium..... I think he'd love it!

[@andrewinfosec]

Never played KDM but dislikes it... smh.

[@monomundo]

Thank you guys, had great fun watching this one (still laughing at the "inflatable terrain" idea). Was expecting Monopoly to be high on one of your lists. I had some heart-pinching also when I heard Catan, El Grande, Galaxy Trucker, Eclipse and Splendor rightly mentioned as I had really good time with those and it makes you a little sad to realize that their time is over.

[@joeldheath]

The reason Splendor is popular: it's an abstract strategy game with enough theme to appease some (though clearly not all) of the people who care about that. Splendor is a good, light abstract strategy game and nothing more. The hew and cry about not having enough theme seems, to me, misplaced. Why does every game need a strong theme?

[@petermobius]

Exactly anyone who wouldn't recognize chess as a nearly perfect game is missing the point. Chess has zero theme. I would like to hear them talk solely about the gameplay of Splendor.

[@Tohnren]

Is chess a nearly perfect game, though? Isn't the first player advantage fairly broken?

[@petermobius]

Which is why in any serious tournament you play a series of games.

[@frostbound]

The problem is that Splendor presents itself as a game with theme. "Merchants and gems etc." Whereas Chess is not presented as a "War game between 2 feuding nations" it's just presented as a strategy game. If you are going to bring up a theme then make it a part of the game otherwise don't bring it up. These guys like abstract strategy games as do I. We don't always need theme.

[@commandercody1078]

Maybe I've only played Betrayal at House on the Hill a few times, but separating the group to read the Haunt rules has actually been a fun part of the experience. Suddenly kicking out a team member (maybe even your strongest or most well armed and equipped member) is exciting. The meekest, friendliest person in real life can ironically be put in a position of power and menace. A serious, scheming player can relish being the bad guy and plotting his friends' demise. Each scenario is only about a page or two long, so it's not that much to take in. If someone's a real noob or not good with rules, it's not that hard to just pass off the Betrayer role to someone else who can run with it. Meanwhile, the rest of the team is suddenly brought a lot closer and made more cohesive, because now they HAVE to work together to survive and win. It's a great social aspect IMO. No spoilers please, but how many of these scenarios are actually broken or with rules that don't work? I have a hard time believing that the game can endure with such popularity if it were that broken. I've seen quite a few people calling the game "broken" when the resulting scenario is too slanted against the heroes, but I think that's a feature. This game is basically a B-movie horror simulator. It's about story and experience, not well-balanced competitive gaming.