Sir Ian McKellen on His Sexuality and Coming Out | The Dick Cavett Show

Ian McKellen discusses coming out as a gay man in his 40's the offensive term used by Alec Baldwin and returning to the stage in Shakespeare's Richard III.
Date aired - 6/8/1992 - Ian McKellen
#IanMckellen #DickCavett
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Dick Cavett has been nominated for eleven Emmy awards (the most recent in 2012 for the HBO special, Mel Brooks and Dick Cavett Together Again), and won three. Spanning five decades, Dick Cavett’s television career has defined excellence in the interview format. He started at ABC in 1968, and also enjoyed success on PBS, USA, and CNBC.
His most recent television successes were the September 2014 PBS special, Dick Cavett’s Watergate, followed April 2015 by Dick Cavett’s Vietnam. He has appeared in movies, tv specials, tv commercials, and several Broadway plays. He starred in an off-Broadway production ofHellman v. McCarthy in 2014 and reprised the role at Theatre 40 in LA February 2015.
Cavett has published four books beginning with Cavett (1974) and Eye on Cavett (1983), co-authored with Christopher Porterfield. His two recent books -- Talk Show: Confrontations, Pointed Commentary, and Off-Screen Secrets (2010) and Brief Encounters: Conversations, Magic moments, and Assorted Hijinks(October 2014) are both collections of his online opinion column, written for The New York Times since 2007. Additionally, he has written for The New Yorker, TV Guide, Vanity Fair, and elsewhere.
#thedickcavettshow

[@drakebrown9622]

He looks young and old at the same time

[@wolfeman323232]

Drake Brown this is what life truly looks like. Bowie said “there is no journey, we are arriving and departing at the same time”

[@drakebrown9622]

Dalphon thanks, I don’t really know what that has to do with him looking young and old at the same time

[@bugzyhardrada3168]

@@wolfeman323232.....yeah i think you'll find life in all living faces......whats your point......

[@theinternetwasamistake5966]

It's called being middle-aged.

[@PedroM851]

He was 52 years old.

[@CountOrlok22]

Dick: "I wish you were in more films." Ian: "Yes, so do I." Post-2000 America: "He does plays too?"

[@TheRowlandstone73]

To be fair though, most people would struggle to name another film he's been in other than the X-Men movies, the LoTR/Hobbit movies and that Sherlock Holmes film he did a few years back.

[@CountOrlok22]

That's kind of my point. Americans tend to be more casual with actors and more focused on celebrity. If they aren't the top billed names on the marquis, they probably haven't heard of them. Even after decades of stage, film, and television work. Hopefully, this "Golden Age of Television" trend will change some of that, but there's a real problem in the states with not recognising stage actors unless they've done screen work as well.

[@porflepopnecker4376]

I done seen him in one of dem flicker shows.

[@gogyoo]

It was so cool when I saw his King Lear on KZbin after I had finished reading the play. And then, hey! Sylvester McCoy/Radagast is playing the Fool!

[@JabBlower-te5cx]

​@@TheRowlandstone73that's a lot of movies lol you just named about ten right there

[@pablowoods1848]

This show had a beautiful energy. People could be themselves and just converse instead of yelling talking points.

[@tryksta7247]

It was a world before political correctness went into hyperdrive in the '90s. Political correctness inevitably lead toward free speech zones and so-called hate speech, all really just excuses to lead to fascism.

[@tryksta7247]

@iPeteEE Good point.

[@Scoffslaphead72]

I think its the lack of an audience chuckling every 2 seconds.

[@eemelia2657]

I love this show, currently binge-watching these so don't get me wrong, but honestly what you said applies to most people on the show but not the blacks

[@justprimo2]

@@tryksta7247 political correctness is not even a thing really generations just have always judged the younger ones for centuries

[@Spectrumpicture]

This man was born to play Gandalf. He's ruined that role for anyone who dare try.

[@ens0246]

Until someone else comes along.

[@Kelly_C]

tolkein wanted it to be christopher lee if they ever made a lord of the rings movie, but then christopher lee was too old by the time they did

[@recipoldinasty]

Kelly Corless lee was saruman tho

[@currykingwurst6393]

@@recipoldinasty Who had a lot less (demanding) scenes than McKellen as Gandalf.

[@peterfarrabuhk123]

Kelly Corless It wasn’t that he was too old. Gandalf is supposed to be old. They thought he was too naturally intimidating and menacing. If they had Lee as Gandalf, casting someone scarier to play Saruman would have been impossible. Christopher Lee was the master of the villain role.

[@rabbitfishtv]

So funny to hear him musing about being a movie actor and announcing that it’s probably too late!

[@simonfrisk3451]

"We're all frightened children wanting to belong. If we can only point a finger at somebody else and say they're different then it makes us feel a little more secure. It's pathetic, really."

[@ExtrovertedCenobite]

That's not true, there is no 'We're all'. Some don't care to belong. Painting with a broad brush never gives you the truth of the matter.

[@blew1t]

@@ExtrovertedCenobite i think an impulse to find some sort of belonging with a group of other humans is inherent to pretty much every regularly functioning person. its kind of in our nature, as social creatures. in every "lone wolf" or what have you, i think they're either pretending not to have that impulse or consciously rebelling against it

[@ExtrovertedCenobite]

@@blew1t no pretending some people actually like being alone. They enjoy their own company.

[@blew1t]

@@ExtrovertedCenobite im not saying that nobody enjoys alone time, im not like some out of touch extrovert thinking that introverts are confused. im just saying that it's a natural and virtually universal impulse to want to feel some sense of belonging to a community. enjoying alone time ≠ enjoying social ostracization

[@louie297]

my mans really just called himself an "honorary gay"

[@RedDeadFan1232]

Poor guy didn’t mean anything by it haha

[@marz_mitzi]

"my mans" i love

[@magicarff8892]

Tfw you put a 30 year old joke to 2020 pc standards.

[@SeanMichaelWesley]

Magicarff Fair point.

[@richardsantanna5398]

@@magicarff8892 PC? Is that what OP was trying to say?

[@aylamiller5752]

I love sir Ian because he's so calm and intelligent. He also seems to take his sexuality in stride. He's a great example of a person. I'm happy to have him as an example and to know I could live that long makes me hopeful.

[@amyleigh8394]

Wait, this is 1992? Thought it was from the 70s. But then Ian McKellen isn't 700 years old

[@carpetfarmer]

Young Ian reminds me of David Bowie looks wise.

[@hasselett]

He was 53 here. Hardly young.

[@bokehintheussr5033]

@@hasselett True, but Sir Ian is one of those men who has been lucky enough to keep his looks throughout his life, unlike most of us who start to resemble a potato in our 30s.

[@rollomaughfling380]

Ol' @@hasselett reminds me of a ol' prospector what don't keer a whit about knowin' how relative age works, *iyuk*.

[@keepXonXrockin]

Hooded eyelids, but that's as far as it goes

[@Syfoll]

He's 8 years older than Bowie

[@ncooty]

1992 doesn't seem so long ago to me, but their conversation about homosexuality seems starkly antiquated. I guess it's good to have come so far, but sad that we had to make the trip... and sadder yet that we're still not all the way there.

[@liltree8382]

ncooty We need to go back

[@b9y]

@@liltree8382 ....what?

[@youwaisef]

Most places in the world today haven't even seriously thought of having this kind of conversation. A lot of places are actively against going into that direction...

[@Prisoner]

30 years is a looot of time man

[@ncooty]

@Prisoner: Indeed it is, but it goes by in the blink of an eye.

[@jamesdrynan]

It is difficult to explain how important a role Cavett played in TV history.His sharp wit and skills as an interviewer were a welcome oasis in the wasteland of '70s programming. He was never in competition with Carson, who had a stranglehold on late night TV, but no one had the abilities, curiosity or intellectual stamina to talk for 80 minutes with one guest like Cavett. Actors, musicians, painters, politicians, authors and others were fair game for him. As a result, he has blessed us with hours of dialogues with iconic world figures that we can now watch. A marvelous man of words!

[@gaminawulfsdottir3253]

Agreed. You can see it in the list of guests on his shows, contrasted with other talk shows.

[@craigcrawford6595]

Cavett was and always will be the greatest host of such talk shows!

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

He’s pretty hyped up here. Normally he doesn’t interrupt his guests right and left.

[@RealHIFIHelp]

Class, nothing but class. We need more actors like this guy.

[@evo2542]

It would suck to have to pretend to be something you're not until your 40s

[@ginonovanta]

well my parents would like me to pretend today and whe're in 2020...

[@alyssalokasenna8384]

@@ginonovanta I don't know you, my friend, but you are loved. I love who you are and however you identify, I see you, and honor that. So much love your way. Unconditionally, my friend. ❤️

[@ginonovanta]

@@alyssalokasenna8384 thank you my dear; i am although aware of my dignity as a human being and that no one has a right to tell me how should i be; to be precise they want to pretend themselves,because they fear they would be pitied or pushed away by the friends thei age (and to be fair in my small town the danger is real)

[@paulai.santiago6885]

@@ginonovanta I hope you are doing well, I'm also in the closet and I hope one day to be free. If you need anything or someone to talk I'm here ❤️❤️❤️

[@ginonovanta]

@@paulai.santiago6885 you're all too kind

[@lewis821]

I’m just fascinated by this interview. Two men calmly and respectfully talking about sexuality and gender. I’d hardly think that was possible nowadays let alone in the early nineties. I have immense respect for Cavett here especially as he rather bravely goes against the grain and talks in admiration about a trans friend of his, even using her pronouns. It’s insane that these conversations still need to be had today. People are just insanely adverse to accept the world in which they live, and that people are individuals. But I loved this interview, great time capsule which is still rather relevant.

[@shaunolsen8268]

A gentleman in the face of ignorance. "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[@slayerpianoman]

Lol "I wish you were in more films." Ian: "So do i." Just wait, Sir Ian darling, just wait.

[@linengray]

First, I had the pleasure of seeing Sir Ian in Richard III and he was scarily brilliant. Second, I love his bemoaning not being in pictures. Be careful what you wish for it may make you a wizard forever.

[@joshgoodman9882]

Well spoken man much ahead of his time. We forget how much this man must’ve went through. One of the greatest actors of stage & film.

[@mckavitt13]

Josh Goodman must’ve gone through. Ouch!

[@mckavitt13]

Josh Goodman And I agree w you.

[@thebatman4279]

These retro interviews are so calm and relaxing. I love how laid back they are.

[@ThreeMinuteHistory]

Funny how they talk about Ian wanting to get into more films. He had no idea that his career was about to explode. What a rare and talented actor!

[@mckavitt13]

Andrew Beane He’d already had a fine, inspiring career. A great Shakespearean, don’t forget.

[@FreakDaMIghet]

I'm selectively bisexual. 99% of men I am not attracted to, but every once in a while I'll see a guy and say, "Oh yeah. That's the one."

[@raspberrycrowns9494]

I'm straight but people like David Bowie or George Harrison just have that kind of handsomeness you know so I kinda agree with you

[@geupelboi]

How precious of you.

[@pukebae3678]

heteroflexible seems like the right term for ya

[@kelvinb16]

@@raspberrycrowns9494 Jesus

[@andrewmccartney304]

When in NYC, look me up!

[@MadKingOfMadaya]

*_7:08_**_ "I wish you were in more films"_* *_"Yes so do I. What can we do about that do you think?"_* LOL

[@jccurran9327]

I thought it most endearing of Dick to share his story of Depression to Ian and audience. Ian, as always is fantastic. Shame is a negative that hinders all healing. So sad to suffer anything let alone be stigmatized by the same affliction! This was a very humane video. Sincere Best Wishes to all out there!

[@garykiesel4508]

Ian Mckellen is probably one of the most handsome men on earth IMO

[@chaitea3421]

Oh without a doubt, it’s the smoothness and cool confidence for me

[@travissmith9894]

I agree. I think he's just as hot in his 50s and 60s.

[@lewis821]

There is a sort of mature elegance to him

[@reconbravo104]

I have such respect for him that he refuses to sink to their level. The self-restraint to not get angry at so many people calling you worthless because of something utterly irrelevant is beyond impressive.

[@bOmBAsTiK]

"Not as Nancy as you are, but you know..." 😂😂😂

[@spaceo8568]

I could listen to Ian McKellen speak for hours. His voice and his accent are hypnotizing.

[@sunflowerbitsj4312]

"Can't you tell" is the best comeback I've heard in a while

[@scottnapier943]

During the lockdown i have been watching all these clips from 'The Dick Cavett Show', what a fantastic interviewer he is. He is so relaxed and he always makes his guest's feel at ease to speak so candidly. His interviews with Orson Welles and Alfred Hitchcock are amongst the best I've ever seen.

[@51StPi]

I saw Ian McKellen in The Seagull in 1998 at the West Yorkshire Playhouse, the production was truly breath taking and I will never forget it, I just wanted to share that, if you ever have the opportunity to see him perform live do not miss it.

[@onehumanhistory]

Dick Cavett brought the greatest actor ever on just to play an irritating game of "if I say _____, does that make me a homophobe?"

[@pedroao2022]

Im a straight man but he's appealing me like a *magnet to* me there.

[@photo161]

-- I hate to break the news to you, but,... but someone should...

[@eerievibes6854]

You are definitely not straight. There's a slight curve.

[@flaggerify]

Pedro AO - That’s not English.

[@gbtekk8966]

Magneto...

[@wohdinhel]

you attempted

[@benwakefield93]

I love how they talk about his lack of film career 😂 Little did they know 😂

[@michaelairley2015]

Personally I think Cavett is the very best chat show host ever.....!

[@crystalemeralddiamond9571]

Totally.

[@babyfather]

craig ferguson would like a word lol

[@michaelairley2015]

@@babyfather No where near Cavett....Ferguson is funnier. But Cavett is the whole package.

[@babyfather]

@@michaelairley2015 fair enough!

[@hamburgerdan101]

Conan is better and letterman when he on is the GOAT

[@joddog]

So beautifully articulate. The world will be a darker place when this man leaves us.

[@cedricselman2313]

Do not think of that. He is with us and will always be. ;)

[@cateellington6653]

What an absolute gem & hero Ian McKellen

[@ncooty]

@6:35: That candle business was pretty slick, especially @6:48.

[@sandrafrederick4923]

I was fascinated. Loved it when he whipped the last ones with the napkin!

[@alextufarolo3394]

Ian is being so gracious and patient throughout the whole thing. "Another time" be damned, between Dick's equating of Ian's homosexuality to his own "coming out of the closet" as having a mental disorder, to the constant interruptions when the topic got too heavy for what he was comfortable with, this sort of betrays his reputation as being an excellent conversationalist and interviewer.

[@elora179]

Grow up

[@pteromalid]

His Richard III is a masterpiece.

[@firstnamelastname5612]

More manly than most straight men sir Ian mckellen

[@karenmcginty9614]

Straight men aren't inherently more "manly."

[@eartheternal3565]

Jeez! These old school conversation, love it!

[@user-xs3og8us3d]

I don't brag

[@aboveaverageinsanity8128]

Acceptance is the key to good life.

[@alexandraroses192]

And that's on a positive mindset

[@redgator3347]

Fine as u say takes out pump out gauage and shoots an entire school

[@oldstoffire]

Hahahaha the midroll ad is actually on the pause for commercial that's amazing

[@theramilpodcast2300]

I was also impressed

[@mysoncrumphaseveryinjury3853]

This is the only time when I can appreciate YT ads.

[@AxeMan808]

I remember catching the occasional Cavett show, but these long-form interviews are great. They're like the better podcasts are nowadays, where the guest is comfortable and gets to talk for a good long time without necessarily marketing something.

[@bryanr87]

Original ally…

[@turtleking7772]

Not surprised Alec Baldwin is a homophobe. And I love that Ian stands up to the interviewer.

[@sarfaraz.hosseini]

He's not a homophobe, he used homophobic language in a different time, and has since learned.

[@ExtrovertedCenobite]

What is a 'homophobe'?

[@Mr-E.]

And his wife isn't really Spanish

[@therealzilch]

What a wonderful interviewer and interviewee. Bravo.

[@armisael5454]

Why does Ian look handsome at every stage in his lifespan

[@karenmcginty9614]

Good god, this is from 1992? Many of Cavett's comments make it sound more like 1962. :-/

[@crys383]

All the way up to at least 2000, honestly.

[@vincelestrade3758]

Which comments specifically?

[@gjrrr2968]

Well honestly 1992 was in many ways as terrible. In 1962 it was prejudice and silence. In 1992 it was prejudice and irrevocable public shame.

[@mckavitt13]

Karen McGinty It is still the same today... in 2020. “A lot of stigma”, as Cavett states.

[@jaredvr]

Ian is such a class act ..... love him

[@RL-ck8zk]

This is amazingly ahead of time!

[@jessiediggins732]

"I missed my chance to be in movies" -Ian McKellen, 1992

[@globalcat]

Dick Cavett is 2 years older but he looks almost the same as he did when he interviewed McLellan in 1981 (also on youtube). McKellen on the other hand looks like he had done a lot of living in the 80's

[@blaisemarcc1648]

McKellan and Cavett are the same age, but McKellan is so much more grown up

[@Vingul]

Cavett was obviously nervous.

[@heishephaestion4178]

in your opinion. To most of us not looking for a competition it was two men having a discussion

[@zimzimzalabim]

how would you know that? You don't know either!

[@Vingul]

@@zimzimzalabim know what?

[@zimzimzalabim]

@@Vingul what OP said.

[@beachgirl48]

I love Sir Ian and Dick Cavett. And I love that he felt comfortable enough to discuss his personal life, even if it wasn't anyone's business!

[@mbpandora50]

Great interview, as always done by Dick Cavett. As a 73-year old, I used to watch his show all the time.

[@johnm1720]

Cavett was the best interviewer tv ever had.

[@electricdumpling6069]

Sir Ian is pure beauty.

[@jmaybarnett]

This show was so ahead of its time ❤️

[@alexandraroses192]

I literally found out he was gay today. Its honestly makes me love him more how proud he is about it

[@shanenicole9552]

Same

[@ItsTerryTime]

I like Cavett, but he was talking too much here, cutting off Ian too much.

[@rare6499]

Agreed, what was up with him?

[@acchaladka]

He tends to get a little sideways when he’s nervous. See: the Eddie Murphy interview.

[@ItsTerryTime]

@@acchaladka Oh, I saw that one.. through my fingers.

[@eerievibes6854]

@@ItsTerryTime because you were whacking it?

[@ItsTerryTime]

@@eerievibes6854 ?!?? No, because I was cringing.

[@anthonynewsome]

Love this Ian wowowowowowo and DC I have spent this Covid time watching his show and reminding myself what chat shows were once

[@johnbattle8324]

"I baked a marvelous apple pie the other day; all my little grand nieces and nephews enjoyed it-it was a hit." When will we get to talk like everyone else-just people? Still, it is fun to hear smart people talk about anything, and I love these two.

[@celorfiwyn8193]

Mesmerizingly simple, straightforward clarity by the McKellen.

[@Chew.bubblegumandkickass]

"We are the future, Charles not them!"

[@NanaYawAforo]

Indeed

[@venomproductions2005]

“They no longer matter!”

[@clucka]

Wow! I seriously thought this was much older than it was shot. I forgot his show went into the 1990's

[@gamerfan5381]

Reminds me of Alan Turing if he lived 50 more years

[@Torcufanshaw]

I would rather be a "nancy boy" than wear white socks with dark shoes, Mr. Cavett, with all due respect. 🙂

[@jeffstone2136]

I am glad I am not a person who cares about such things

[@VarnaVix]

I'd rather be Ian McKellan!

[@robertusaugustus2003]

It’s actually intentional; Ivy League style often features white athletic socks worn with loafers, like Dick does here

[@eerievibes6854]

Wearing socks and dark shoes is a small price to pay to not have to suck cocks.js

[@Torcufanshaw]

@@robertusaugustus2003 I had no idea. In my book this is a crime to aesthetics. Thanks for the information.

[@greg1mcintosh844]

He asked him why he hasn't been in many movies during his career he certainly has been in a lot of movies since this interview

[@AudioVideoDisco06]

Ian was speaking truth to power early. Patience of a saint.

[@r0bw00d]

Hang on. This guy still had a show as I was growing up, yet I've never heard of him until about a month ago? Weird.

[@PC4USE1]

@MissDroplette Dick Cavett was on ABC in the Late 60s-early '70s against The Tonight Show so he was drowned out by Carson's popularity.

[@angstyalienartist7028]

He's a godamn genius, Sir Ian McKellen is my favourite actor and activist

[@ChinmayKashid]

2:09 Saying that on TV takes a lot of courage, even in 2020. Take a bow, Sir Ian!!!

[@tannerbartko1203]

No it doesn't. It takes courage to go on tv and say that you love God

[@SpecialK199]

Just shows you how far we have come

[@wilfredoriverajr.]

Sir Ian,kicking down walls. bad ass

[@justbeyondthecornerproduct3540]

He nailed the pronunciation of Lughnasa! 😮

[@AhJodie]

Ian has the most beautiful mouth expressions, just a little curl means so much, how lovely he is!

[@katbowl9971]

So glad Ian was a guest on here so we could hear Dick dominate the conversation. Sheesh!

[@VisionaryofMirage]

Wow, now I get why Ian and so many others have devoted their time to talking openly about the LGBT community. Because before there was really no conversation at all...

[@TheJayson8899]

Uh... yes, it was. Homosexuality wasn’t invented in the 2010’s

[@sammarks9146]

Dick Cavett and Howard Stern were on the air at the same time??

[@athos401]

Probably my favourite person (really as a person) in cinema

[@Ableten]

This looks like an always sunny episode

[@EphemeralProductions]

well now I know how to say Lughnasa. I always thought it was "loog-nah-suh". lol

[@Ithaka78]

I adore Ian! Who he loves matters not to me. Being loved is all that matters

[@drakebrown9622]

His voice sounds beautiful

[@feebtubereal]

10:38 "Everybody I know has been cruised by a drill sergeant at some point in his life." "How lovely."

[@lulairenoroub3869]

So funny listening to this. Ian's expectations are so low. This would have been a complete train wreck today.

[@Tubomiro]

5:43 Barbara Walters should've watched this before she interviewed Ricky Martin back in 2000.

[@Thomaswake]

It's funny hearing him talk about all these other actors people would pick over him for films and yet now he is a bigger name on the world stage than those others, even though they are big names as well

[@photo161]

I find it so annoying that Cavette insists on allowing McKeller to finish a sentence now and then. On the other hand, it was illuminating to learn that he had had the courage to"come out" as someone who had suffered from depression. so admirable man!

[@bmabs35]

Dick Cavett really had the best of the best on his show didn't he? McKellen, Welles, De Palma, Bergman, Scorsese, and on and on.

[@acchaladka]

What perceptive commentary on Oscar Wilde and about soldiers.

[@aaronyandell2929]

How long did this show air?

[@jaephantom2913]

He's no nancy boy, he's magneto!

[@BilliePosters]

Even now he is just gorgeous

[@56postoffice]

Great actor. Top man. 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@grimble4564]

Imagine being alive in 2020 and genuinely believing that there are human beings who aren't human beings.

[@calliedurling3292]

I love Sir Ian!

[@kumpircan]

İ love sir Ian Mckellen so much ❤

[@chrisgkhawkinsart4974]

Yes Gandalf what a hero