What are the Best Saws for Making Thick Rip Cuts?

[@joer5627]

Hope all is well. Miss the videos and plans.

[@groundhogssplit]

Thank you Richard and Helen: this is the best, most honest and straightforward, no nonsense review of the topic I've seen. You've cleared up all of my thinking, which was pretty much identical to the lines you discuss, and will enable me to rip stock with fewer qualms as to whether I'm using the most efficient/effective means, whilst striving for the serenity and personal growth achieved from only using hand tools. For shorter lengths, I'm more than happy to use my Japanese saw, and thoroughly enjoy the rhythmic, almost effortless process, but for longer lengths, e.g., 6-10 foot boards of 2" thick stock, a powered saw just makes more sense and helps keep my sanity and frustration in check.

[@e139439]

Thanks for the insight about this, even Paul Sellers said the same about bandsaw. A small but probably important addition; the recycling rate of steel is average 85% + so when you change the blade it's not a waste, for a reference recycling rate of scrap steel from cars is ~99% (I'm working in steel sector).

[@johnschillo4452]

maybe they should recycle old cars into bandsaw blades - like a 58 Stingray?

[@e139439]

@@johnschillo4452 those old cars are mostly produced from mild steel (low carbon), blade steels are inevitably produced from high carbon steel, recycling cars to produce cars are way more efficient :)

[@brianhdenver7551]

This is a breathe of fresh air. I appreciate the hand tool work, but I appreciate the the honesty about just using a bandsaw when feasible.

[@uwyphi]

Glad you mention the roubo style frame saw I made my own (without a kit) using carriage bolts and a rip cut bow saw blade because I needed to do many 2meters long rips and didn't have the money for a kit Here's the things I learnt from it : - Get a long blade, this is important for resawing wider material, bow saw blade typically aren't long for resawing material wider than 20cm - Make the frame wide, you're limited to half the width of the frame for rips, but wider saws make them more awkward to use because of your hands to elbow posture - Ripping is fast and efficient BUT you need to deal with the vibrations, they are very uncomfortable after a full day of use. I got an bursitis on my elbow after use, not sure this is the cause but it's correlated - Balance the end of the saw with more weight to help pulling down the saw (mine was on the lighter side, that may be the reason why)

[@uwyphi]

@@Fair_dinkum He's the one who documented it the best hence the usage of the word "roubo **style** frame saw"

[@alemholas]

Thank you! May I ask what length you recommend? Also, what width did you use, and how difficult was to keep it straight? Thanks for you help!

[@uwyphi]

​@@alemholas For the width just pick something that is comfortable for your body, so slightly larger than shoulder width (around 50-60cm), just test it out with a stick, you'll notice very quickly what is and what is not comfortable For straight cuts, it's probably the easier saw to control because of its ergonomics, if the blade is set and sharpened properly you will not have issues with that

[@egglyph]

Kudos to Richard for demonstrating a proper way of ripping and crosscutting with a ryoba at 11:19, very few westerners on YT take an effort to read the manual. Most people would put a piece in a vise - too high, too upright, will use an angle too steep, will put too much pressure and then will complain about too much vibration and bad tracking and say things like "Japanese saws don't work in hardwoods" or some similar nonsense.

[@snowwalker9999]

It’s been a long time. Hope you’re doing ok. Hoping to see another video from you soon

[@BCToby]

Canadian here, for the Japanese pull saw handles I like to remove the slippery bamboo handle and do a hockey stick spiral wrap pattern for it. Makes a HUGE difference comfort wise and also feels much more in control.

[@schm4704]

In the German tradition, for long rips such as cutting boards to width, one would use a frame saw like yours in an up-and-down motion in front of your body with the blade turned 90 degrees, grabbing it with both hands. It feels quite weird and looks a bit funny, but it is actually quite efficient and you can use your legs and upper body to power through.

[@schm4704]

Here's a demonstration right at the beginning of the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGSsdXeEZtCdabc

[@darkounet3478]

To me it's definitely the way to go. Grab a good old 70cm frame saw with progressive teeth and you'll find that it rips faster than ripsaws because framesaw blades are so much thinner. However, new ones are not made to the same standard used to, way to much set.

[@rostoi6985]

There are japenese blades for frame Saws. Works perfect for this job. Very thin blade. Standard blades work too but it IS easier for me with japenese blades. It only requiers to flip thé piece of Wood more often.

[@roberte.6892]

​@@darkounet3478very little is made to the same standards of yesteryear, unfortunately...

[@davidclark9086]

Almost 3 years ago I injured my right shoulder. I could use a Western saw but not for long and my shoulder always suffered the next day. I owned some fine Japanese saws but I needed something for the rough work so I bought an appropriate Japanese saw and learned how to use it with two hands. Amazing.

[@PeteLewisWoodwork]

I've been a carpenter/joiner for just over 40 years and I use a both hard and soft tooth saws interchangeably; I'm not a tool snob whatever works best is best to use, as far as I'm concerned.

[@Hamperokken]

Good video! Bought two new Spear Jackson back saws, the ones with the wooden handle. They're quite cheap and set up for both rip and cut, but they can be resharpened. After about an evenings worth of work on each saw with a file, I had a very nice set of rip and cut saws that I can use for just about everything. I am sure there are much better saws avaliable, but there's something in that the best tool is the ones you have at hand. Spend another evening on each handle and they are quite comfortable to work with too. Ripping is not a "fun" job, but there are times when taking your time has it's own value.

[@lincolndickerson1293]

A very common sense and straight forward view. Thank you

[@iamwhoiam4410]

I've got Lie Neilson and Veritas saws, and then I have 12 Japanese saws, and use them all depending on the situation. If I have to cut real fine or small dovetails I use the Japanese saws, and I also use them for cutting small tenons. At my age now, and some elbow tendonitis, I use a bandsaw and table saw sometimes to rip with . Interesting video and thanks for sharing it. Your videos are great for beginners.

[@mr.shellcracker9161]

Bandsaw has been a game changer for me. I like my Japanese saws as well. The waste is minimal.

[@TheSMEAC]

Thanks Richard! I hope you and Helen are doing well! I have a 37” frame saw that has changed everything for me and has added the wonderfully enjoyable process of cutting veneers by hand as well as making rips of all kinds. I built the larger BadAxe roubo frame saw and also the Kerfing saw/plane with it (a movable fence version and a fixed 3/32 one too). I love the thing and I think I’ll make an even larger coarser one too at some point and a smaller one maybe down the road thereafter. You can get away with only having made one set of beams and just have a different set of stretchers for each which I think is a good way to experiment rather cheaply. As for the much coarser one, I’m going to attempt Blackburn’s blade (though his shipping and communication have been lacking lately), but for the smaller one I’m going to try to make my own from spring steel stock. Making my own halves/rounds, grooving and T&G planes, as well as making some turning and continental frame saws has been so much fun this last couple of years and really makes for a good teacher as well. Seriously though, I really think adding a large Roubo frame saw is a wonderful addition to the shop and one I don’t regret a single bit. Then the making of fixed width kerfing planes (basically a fenced stair saw) for common width resawing has been a beautiful addition also. I hope you and Helen have a great Christmas and I always look forward to your content! Would love a split top sawbench build and/or a dressing bench/setee bench bench project from you sometime if your wondering what project/skills we’d benefit from seeing you teach. The saw bench is something I’d really like your thought process/reflections on and I really think your design/styling would look wonderful in a classic looking dressing bench that sets against the foot of a bed whilst tying the room together visually and filling a highly functional position in the bedroom at the same time. Again thank you and Godspeed to you and yours.

[@ared18t]

I love this guy's videos

[@Mikey__R]

I've just moved house, my Record bandsaw is currently in pieces in the kitchen. When I put it back together again, I'll give it the full Snodgrass. I used to resaw guitar fingerboards by hand, using my 4tpi Diston. I'm definitely with you on this, I bought the bandsaw because 3" to 4" was the absolute max and I just couldn't bring myself to rip anything deeper by hand.

[@Mikey__R]

Btw, Richard, I met you a couple of times at trade shows. It was a difficult time in my life and I was probably quite unpleasant. I had to know best and refused to learn from those who genuinely knew better. If you do read this, I'd like to apologise, though I'm sure there's no way you'd remember.

[@snowwalker9999]

Frame saws are so underrated and so much fun to use. They are both a back saw and a hand saw in one. Even a 16" one with a turbo hybrid blade could rip crosscut be used as a joinery saw and even cut moderate to large size dovetails. Thank you for another great video.

[@eggster71]

Well put together, no nonsense video as always! Cheers.

[@sanjaraejour9632]

Thank you for the perspective on disposable blades. I hadn't taken into consideration how quickly files have to be replaced with saw sharpening, and that definitely alters the cost/benefit analysis of resharpenable versus hard point.

[@williamwarner7296]

As always Richard a bloody good simple informative video wonderfully filmed and music scored thank you

[@sigogglin]

Glad I watched this, I picked up the smaller Japanese saw. Will grab the Irwin as a backup.

[@mypony891]

I hate heading about what your opinion is on using the panel saw but I appreciate your honesty because I'm in that category of a person who loves the old tools but doesn't know how an actual sharp tool is supposed to feel like.

[@brianrobertson6475]

There's a fella here in Canada who works exclusively by hand who built a "frame or pit" saw like you described. Very comfortable and efficient, it bears noting pit sawyers of old used the same types (although larger for two). He also built a "kerfing plane" to be used in concert at times, as it creates a guiding groove for the pit saw to follow. Thick stock to be kerfed both sides of course.

[@roberthahn8555]

That would be Tom Figden. He has a KZbin channel and there’s videos showing the construction of both the frame saw and kerfing plane if you look for them.

[@brianrobertson6475]

@@roberthahn8555 Bingo. Wasn't sure if I should mention his name.

[@sj_harris]

Great vid, and your opening conclusion (use a bandsaw) answers a conundrum I’ve been trying to solve for sometime now! Alas I don’t really have room for a bandsaw (or table saw, or god forbid a thicknesser), but perhaps I’ll have to consider it more carefully. Agree that ripping with a western saw can be exhausting, though I love my old school £5 one. Japanese saws I also agree with, and I actually find they’re quicker. Where they fall down for me (and this may just be poor technique on my part) is accuracy and straightness. I find the thinness of the blades makes them wander like crazy, but that may just be me!

[@AESamuel]

Hi Richard, I hope you're keeping well! Do you have any plans for releasing more content? I find your insights incredibly valuable!

[@deezynar]

If you convert a bandsaw blade to use on a frame saw, reshape the teeth to remove the hook. The other problem with bandsaw blades is that they are relatively thick. It's probably better to buy a purpose made blade. Whichever way you go, remove as much of the set from the teeth as you can without it beginning to bind in the kerf. If you use a frame saw to rip a board, if it's wide enough, clamp it down flat onto the top of the workbench so the cut line is just over the edge enough for the far side handle of the saw to clear the edge of the bench. Then hold the saw vertically with both hands and stroke it up and down. One hand goes on the upper handle, and the other on the beam near the top. That allows you to cut the entire line without needing to stop and reclamp it. It's also a pretty ergonomic way to do it.

[@6272marc]

Very interesting point of view! Thank you for sharing your opinion on such a delicate topic. Disposable goods nowadays is normally not a good option for your wallet and the ecosystem. But when you take into account the waste files (Wich I agree with you that they don't last very long and a sharpable saw needs many maintenance in a year if you use them a lot), it is a lot of metal going to waste.

[@rollingstone3017]

Very interesting thoughts on ripping. For those of us who are not professionals who manufacture furniture for a living, it is highly unlikely we will make enough sawdust to ever throw away any of these disposable saws. I have a couple of Japanese saws I've been using for 20 years now, and they still work fine. Maybe not quite like new, but still razor sharp. I've made maybe 20-25 significant pieces with them over that time period, just for perspective.

[@ianmurray3820]

Hand tool work definitely keeps you fit generally but like any repetitive exercise it wears things out, I’ve always used a mixture of power tools and a few hand tools, and since retiring I have collected more of both, I do prefer a quiet dust free workshop where I can listen to the radio whilst working on something, !!!! BUT.!!! Ripping 8 x 4 sheets, 6” posts or anything reasonably hard takes - its toll on your body - and too much time ..!!!…I think even the most skilled craftsmen from the past would have used every tool at their disposal to be more productive and As you said “ just get on with it.!! …with whatever tools you have… great video…👍💪🏻

[@brucewelty7684]

I think that you have cured my pull saw drift. I have no trouble keeping the near side cutting true but the far side wanders about, on me.

[@omardumbrell435]

Thanks for this video mate. I thought it was just me who couldn't get his head around ripping stuff quickly by hand without chopping and changing techniques and ending up buggered after a few metres of sawing.I just break out the circular saw now if it's more than a meter long, the set up and pack up time is a bit longer but at least I can continue working straight after I finish cutting.

[@uncletello]

Tom Fidgen has a good video making a frame saw with a center blade.

[@VivienLEGER]

Thanks for this video, I really appreciate the feedback over experience, having improper technic as a beginner i used to chip japanese tooth teeth ( as it s the only part of the blade that is hardened) which soon turn the saw in a new hell to use. I appreciate the honestly toward bandsaw ( even Paul sellers seems to thinks as you do). I chosed west style saw and chose to file them ... i want to learn the skill. but i know some project will find me in owe for the task.

[@weldabar]

What honest perspectives! 1. Use a bandsaw. You're not the only hand-tool woodworker who recommends this one power tool. 2. disposable blades are not all bad, and are even sometimes preferred. ... and other good points.

[@ehisey]

A good 32" blade D8 with or without thumbhole, well set and low tip, used with a 2 hand grip lets you get a nice body rock rhythm using the full blade.

[@jsmxwll]

Good to hear your thoughts on it. I am more of a hobbiest, but I enjoy resawing and sawing in general. I primarily use a chinese style frame saw with 3.5tpi blade with every other tooth unset. It makes pretty quick work of 6" red oak resaws. A Roubo style resaw framesaw is probably the king though. I've used them a few times, and the balance extra mass helps a lot on harder wood.

[@samp4656]

japanese Nokogiri (timber saws) works great. With 2 hands and pull strokes, it makes nice workout sessions :) Ryoba is a terrible idea because it is slow and don't go strait.

[@gregtricker-reissig7301]

Thanks for the terrific presentation, Richard. Indeed, ripping is the bane of my existence. But as one who prefers to repurpose seasoned wood, it's something I spend an inordinate amount of time doing by hand. I'm really keen to explore the Irwin option. I always bought Irwin hardpoint panel saws, but I haven't found one that would rip. Did you find the model number of the one you like? Or is it just a matter of buying any universal one with the lowest TPI?

[@kelvinsparks4651]

In our previous house i refurbished the kitchen ( work top and doors) and hand made the doors in Canadian hard maple from rough cut boards. When i realized I was going to rip 60 metres by hand i soon played chicken and bought a table saw lol

[@andrewfrudd108]

Nice and straightforward as ever. Two questions. First, when I look at those Japanese saws my first though is the blade is too short and you are only doing half a stroke each time. In practice do you feel limited or frustrated by the shortness? Second, still on the Japanese saw. How do the double sided blades not jam? They teeth can be set as they would catch and it can't taper both ways...

[@VertexCarver]

I'd love you to review the Roubo frame saw. ( Bought Roubo Frame Saw Parts from Germany & I love it. )

[@tomarmstrong1000]

I like the comment about it being nice to have a wooden handle (western style) you could swap out the disposable blade. I see that Bahco now do a system where you buy a handle and replace the blades. It's not wooden but maybe someone will develop a similar idea

[@Gabriel-e5g3e]

Richard, could you cover the traditional tools of the English furniture maker of the mid-to-late 19th century? And maybe round it down to the ones that are required versus ones that are a ‘nice-to-have’ thing? I want to make a minimalistic kit, but I also enjoy historical tools. And I believe that most of them would have been made by the craftsman themselves, or at least a good amount would’ve been. Best regards, -G

[@Victoria-jo3wr]

Wonderful video, thank you!

[@madtitan9639]

If you have a magic custom filing on your handsaw, I'd like to hear more about it!

[@jamesjoy6645]

Great video! I have experimented with a few old Disstons, and I've found it a bit difficult to get the tooth geometry quite right. I definitely appreciate the fact that a disposable saw can help a hobbyist start making things, while it's unlikely to end up in the trash anytime soon. I am interested in learning, so I'm going to try picking up a Veritas filing guide to help with the geometry, but will likely switch in disposable saws for the time being. I do have a disposable DeWalt saw, but I've found that it tends to drift in the cut unless I really focus on keeping everything in line. I'm wondering if the set is a little off, and might try another saw. Do you know of any good replacements for the orange handled irwin that are available in the United States? The Irwins we have here are a little bit different, and it's unclear whether it's just different branding, or if the saw is engineered differently. Thanks again for the great content!

[@tonyalways7174]

I imagine Bahco saws are available in the US and if so the 22” Bahco Barracuda Hard Point with 7tpi is a great general purpose saw. It’ll slice through any wood as well as MDF, ply and chipboard and keep it’s sharpness for plenty of work. They get better after the first few cuts because the teeth almost seem too sharp at first. In UK they cost less than £10. The Irwin equivalent didn’t seem to work as well for me.

[@jeffmoffat6967]

This guy is a woodworker

[@Ramplcro]

Yeah, if you are ripping on face of a large number of long boards (with max 5 or so cm thick), a cheap jigsaw with a fence is a good option for your elbows. For edge ripping especially if you want book-matching wide boards (more than 17 cm wide) if using a bandsaw, you need really a big one, with a starting price around thousand euros/pounds.

[@Nanomachinist]

I've made a Roubo frame saw- exactly what you were describing with the frame saw with the blade in the middle and and beams either side. It's probably the most efficient way to hand resaw. Still nowhere near as simple as a band saw. Working on a hand crank band saw now.

[@eggster71]

Are you UK based? If so where did you get the hardware for the roubo? Cheers.

[@petertaylor3150]

I've tried a frame saw (they seem really common here in Finland), an old Swedish blade and after a quick sharpen it cuts super fast. Only problem is than i can't cut straight with it to save my life! It always wanders from the line and seems impossible to correct. I don't know what i'm doing wrong? I'm not new to handsaws either, i'm a carpenter by profession and following a line with a regular handsaw is totally natural to me!

[@tonyennis1787]

Do you mean ripping (cutting with the grain to make stock narrower) or do you mean resawing (making thin lumber out of thick lumber by sawing the Hard Way through stock)?

[@RobertoFischer]

In regards to feeling how well setup sales are like... I bought a veritas dovetail saw and it was terribly sharpened. Teeth had more set on one side, I could never cut straight and kept blaming myself, because how could I blame the tool, right? Took me a long time to figure it out, so I did waste a lot of time being even more clueless.

[@davidpalmer4840]

I just use Japanese saw. I really like them.

[@dpmeyer4867]

thanks

[@carlopieracci2828]

Living on Continental Europe Im partial with frame saws. Blades could be obtained for 10 euros, theyre fast, they dont Need to much set because the plate Is generally 0.7 mm thick. Saw files last longer because have to work so tiny amount of steel. There Is no need of fleam-teeth/ crosscut pattern teeth: an 8 tpi frame saw Blade, filed 10-12°rake angle, cuts cleanly across the wood

[@BrownianMotionPicture]

Also very fun and easy to make.

[@mrstandfast2212]

Ripping yarns for woodworkers.

[@kimmyposey8912]

Check time-index 7:22 or thereabouts here kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGLJdoyZrbJsf8U. I've seen James Wright use this saw a good bit and mean to make one when time allows.

[@gbwildlifeuk8269]

The reason japanese pull saws are favoured over western saws for ripping, is because there's less effort required. With western saws you're pushing, (which is mainly relying on weight) and with japanese saws you're pulling. This uses a lot of back, arm and shoulder muscles and not one arm weight. Because of this it's always easier pulling than pushing.

[@sethwarner2540]

Hey, don't apologize for the noble rip saw; the army of chisels, lined up to do what they do best-ripping! Like ripping paper!

[@alangknowles]

Get a 4 ft Roubo frame saw with very coarse rip teeth. You can resaw 8 inch thick stuff in no time!

[@jessestrum]

the guru talk about loving yourself

[@acek100]

Resaw or ripping ? Resaw bandsaw all the way. Ripping Just use a table saw or better yet a track saw could be ideal.

[@richardc6932]

For all my years in woodworking I have been a power tool guy, probably because of the New Yankee Workshop and Norm Abram. Now at the tender age of 76, I am drawn into the world of hand tools, especially bench planes and chisels. A safer and more relaxing way of working in wood, not to mention the safety of it. Dustless and noiseless. What I don’t understand is why anyone likes exerting that much energy in sawing heavy lumber, a bandsaw is a more civilized way to go. If I wanted a workout, I would go to a gym. Japanese saws are flimsy and can’t be sharpened and a pull stroke feels unnatural. Not everyone is built like this fellow and even he dislikes the job.

[@majesticdragonfly]

Hi Richard, are you still a

[@1pcfred]

I'm just not a fan of the Japanese straight handles. I love me some western saw handles. That's personal preference. Long rips are not something anyone wants to do by hand.

[@AB-nu5we]

Wasteful to replace a replaceable blade? In my U.S. small flyover-country city, I have three metal recyclers that will gladly take a replaceable blade and start it on the road to a new life as a car part, new blade, kitchen appliance or anything else that uses metal. I don't see a replaceable blade being wasteful if recycled in some manner (repurposed as scraper or direct recycling, two examples).

[@andrewlawrence990]

Get to the point, man

[@Scotland_my]

Brilliant, honest stuff there. Hultafors do a hand saw with replaceable blades, I've never used them so can't say how the teeth are. Love the brick bolster tip. I'm currently using a one hundred plus year old carpenters axe to do the same. 👍🪚🔨