Deathloop (Zero Punctuation)

[@theescapist]

Watch this week's episode of Zero Punctuation on Lost in Random. www.escapistmagazine.com/lost-in-random-zero-punctuation/ - Watch it early on KZbin via KZbin Memberships and support our content for just $2/month.

[@LucanVaris]

...Why didn't you just ask the guys to let you out of the time loop? I'm sure everyone has each other's phone numbers, so with the right amount of Groundhog Day shenanigans, you could probably be back to your normal time flow pretty quickly. At least, soon enough to be on time for your post-breakfast celebratory wank. No blood spilled. No bodies sharted on by nearby exploding corpses. Sue me for liking the pacifist run idea, but it makes a heck of a lot more sense than "murder all those people who set up a time loop, all because they set up a time loop."

[@fallout3fan623]

I think the proper exemplar for time loop games would probably be majoras mask

[@Honest-King]

@@LucanVaris If you have paid ANY attention in the 1st 5 minutes, you would have gotten the answer to the last 5 lines that you typed or starting from "sue me for liking the idea ...."

[@LucanVaris]

@@Honest-King "the last 5 lines," yet I only typed four, according to KZbin. Plus, nowhere in the information provided specifically states why the supposedly "only" way to exit the time loop is to viciously murder those who set up the time loop, and why we can't just conjure a pacifist solution through sheer diplomatic force. Maybe your pancakes allow you to access more words than are typed or spoken, but for us mere mortals, we're kinda stuck with only the written and verbal forms of language to work with.

[@RiverM8rix]

The only thing I could think of for why Colt wants to escape is that waking up with a hangover every day for eternity sounds like hell.

[@JewTube001]

lol I've been there. every morning you wake up you wanna quit drinking forever. but the loop always continues.

[@robrobusa]

@JewTube001 You okay, man?

[@GooberInternet]

Maybe that's why he keeps coming back to the loop, he hopes that one time when he comes in he won't start the day with a hangover.

[@babygorilla4233]

The blink ability was in prey too. It's been in all their games since Dishonored actually.

[@Dracinard]

Which, fair enough. When you hit gold, might as well make some rings out of it.

[@babygorilla4233]

@@Dracinard I'm just pissed the little indicator of where you're going to land is gone.

[@Dracinard]

@@babygorilla4233 Oh, is it? That's stupid. I guess the idea is to use it less as a thoughtful traversal tool and more as an instinctive combat trick, but still. Seems a negative change.

[@retrac0094]

fun fact, this is a dishonored game. takes place in the same universe

[@ValleysOfRain]

@@retrac0094 I find that weird, tbh, because even in the far flung future, I find the presence of real world cultural references jarring.

[@VeritableSmorgasbord]

“Norman doesn’t seem enthusiastic, but that might be the suppressor.” Jee-zus

[@luigibond4703]

Norman should be the mascot for this channell ! :D

[@16BitGamerCat]

Well, most of that stuff about the memories was contained in Wenjie's audio logs and papers. She talks about how the presence of "visitor objects" (stuff from previous loops) suggests that it "IS NOT FIRST DAY." and that Colt and Julianna are the only people she has observed that seem to remember previous loops. (Meaning she didn't know 2-Bit could remember) But, my best guess for WHY Colt and Julianna remember is "something something residuum, something something genetics".

[@Klick404]

Weird that there were so many time loop games during quarantine, where we were all repeating the same day over and over

[@cj-gw5fd]

maybe partly from the writing trope, "Write what you know", and well, game/scriptwriters too have been stuck inside for long periods of time during lockdown.

[@user-bf5sc8pn8x]

I thought that was what we were doing before quarantine

[@Secondhelix]

The forgetting is explained -- it's accidental. They know they are looping, but don't know that their memory is erased.

[@trexdrew]

That’s just pointless then

[@Secondhelix]

@@trexdrew They intended for themselves to remember, but something broke and they don't. What I don't know is if they ever explained why Colt or Julianna remember

[@Shuizid]

You'd think people who managed to create a timeloop would have a failsafe. But then again, it's a magic timeloop which gave the MC some very useful and downright magic superpowers.

[@trexdrew]

@@Secondhelix so basically “because reasons”

[@Secondhelix]

@@Shuizid That's also not true, he has no powers in and of himself, he has to take it from others. That part is actually explained pretty well.

[@olo9127]

I can’t believe Yahtzee didn’t mention the game’s main feature: the almighty kick!

[@Spiralblitzful]

There's a kick?

[@titanjakob1056]

Dark messiahs was better tbh Which is ironic since it was made by arkane as well lol

[@tretretre1111]

You wanna spend all day kicking people around like the bully you know you are deep inside, play Elderborn.

[@arcaneglimmer]

Kickloop

[@aryanbaibaswata2092]

Welcome to kickloop

[@SirRadington]

For anyone who cares, the reason Colt wants to leave the loop is because he's been it before and while he was in the loop the first time his girlfriend died and he thought if he went back to the island the loop is on he'd be able to find a way back to her(he was wrong), and the reason everyone who set up the loop did it in the first place was because they didn't know they wouldn't keep their memory from loop to loop since colt brought them to the island and he kept his memory when he was in it the first time.

[@jmckendry84]

I've literally only seen the promo trailers for the game but I could smell "a game Yahtzee wants to like more than he actually likes" a mile away

[@Nick-mp1zh]

It's hinted that when you get bored and don't want to continue, you start to lose your memories of the loop. Some kind of subconscious thing probably. Everybody has been there _so_ long (probably centuries) that they've all ended up forgetting, with only Julianna actually remembering, and she keeps forcing Colt to remember. It might be because of that reason that she's always so hung up on Colt doing something interesting, or the unique circumstances of her birth that you discover as you play

[@Mernom]

Isn't Juliana also the only character who's schedule is variable (through invasions)?

[@jled787]

There's a note in Wenjie's Lab stating that only Colt and Juliana can remember previous loops. And from the previous Horizon experiment logs on the island, the single day loop didn't happen during their time as they continued on to pack-up after Colt went MIA after riding the Rakyetoplan into the Stabilizer Core. And from then, Colt was MIA until Egor found him for the AEON Program in a mental institute. We can infer that time works differently on the island, that Colt Vahn's disappearance corresponds to 17 years but when they found him, he wasn't much older as indicated by Juliana's appearance (to which Colt knew nothing about her existence up until the day she told him) In anycase, no one in the AEON Program knew how the Loop works which is why Wenjie is there to study it as they never intended it to be First Day everyday. As for the Julianas that invade, they're all from different timeframes/timelines. As your Colt's Juliana is always where she is, in the Stabilizer Core.

[@Dorian-_-Gray]

As others have said, that's completely incoherent. You can't maintain the certain and actionable knowledge that you're repeating a day but also lose your memory of repeating a day without realizing it. The writers wrote themselves into a corner. So, you've proven Yahtzee's point. It's a plot hole.

[@Descriptor413]

​@@Dorian-_-Gray The time loop in this case was intentionally manufactured, so everyone on the island purposefully went there to live in the time loop. They remember everything leading up to the loop, so they would know that they are looping. They just always think it's the first loop. And even then, it's implied that the memory thing wasn't an issue initially, but just set in over time because living the same day over and over again gets so repetitive that the brain stops forming new memories.

[@iotaje1]

@@Dorian-_-Gray Nope, they literally tell you in the game that memory loss was an unintended side effect, to which only Juliana was immune as well as Colt, usually. Imo what's missing in the game is the opportunity to talk to the visionnaries instead of shooting them, by explaining to them that the loop repeats. If they knew they were trapped they'd probably want to help you break it. Juliana wants to stop you because she's having a lot of fun, and in one of the endings you end up agreeingwith her that the game is fun and shouldn't end.

[@genkaiba15]

If I were in a party loop, I'd wanna forget. It'd eventually get boring and become hell if you remembered, but forgetting means it's always new.

[@Montesama314]

The killers not retaining memory between loops makes sense when you realize they're in the loop to party forever. If they remembered every single loop, they would go insane.

[@Brian-tn4cd]

It was actually not intentional and a character realizes they forget each loop and doesn't know many times it's gone through, but it was an unknown side effect when they started (implied to me that they thought they retained their memories like Colt does)

[@pramitpratimdas8198]

Yea yahtz may not have heard of haruhi suzumiya

[@sebastianvroom7595]

@@Brian-tn4cd Haven't played, but the idea that they initially retained their memories but after so many loops they've lost the ability to do so would be some nice worldbuilding, give the player another reason to want to get the hell out of dodge and bring in some interesting questions about escapism and indulgence

[@KitelessMusic]

Majora's Mask is probably the crowning game of the timeloop genre

[@CheesecakeMilitia]

Yep, pretty much every indie timeloop game cites Majora's Mask as a big influence - Alex Beachum of Outer Wilds especially. We should really be calling the games Majoralikes.

[@deathlock9979]

Remember when Final Fantasy XIII Lightning Returns tried to rip off Majora's Mask and failed miserably?

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

And yet we can’t quite make a snappy name off of that, can we? A shame really.

[@matthewmuir8884]

I'd say that there's no need for the word "probably" in that sentence; Majora's Mask is the crowning game of the timeloop genre.

[@sindrisuncatcher653]

I still have fond memories of working out complex schedules that let me do every sidequest in a single loop to make sure that I actually helped all the people who need my help in the final timeline. Sounds like deathloop is the murderhobo version of that.

[@cubandarknez]

they didn't know the loop would only be one day, and erase your memories.

[@calpolenthusiast]

yeah only Julliana and Colt are able to retain their memories and Wenjie makes that discovery every day

[@aliasnando]

I still dont get why Julliana does remember. O why does she wakes up earlier than Colt.

[@MrOwNaGe95]

@@aliasnando Not being hungover probably helps.

[@aliasnando]

@@MrOwNaGe95 well in the OG loop Egor isnt hangover, lives in the complex and cant remember shit.

[@SinkingAbyss]

I think he just means not being hungover is why she wakes up earlier. As for why she remembers, I've not yet beaten the game so if the game explains it, I've likely not encountered the audio log that explains it yet

[@GameVyse]

Number 2 is not a plot hole, they do say that they messed up the timeloop. The idea was that they could do what ever they like even killing them selfs by jumping off a tall building in the sea and wake up the next "day" with their body fine. But due to messing up the time loop, they are unable to work out that they did mess up (I know one of the targets does work it out from watching Colt and Juiliana but even they note they must of came this same idea over and over). Colt gets called a outcast at the start of each loop so the socal way is out (even if you could break the loop without killing them) and Juiliana loves the loop like this and has no plans to stop it.

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

There's also the simple fact that maybe wanting to party forever would work out better if you forgot the party afterwards? That way it never gets old.

[@BeefMeisterSupreme]

@@dojelnotmyrealname4018 the actual issue is that the human mind can't hold all the memories from all of the loops, to the point that the human mind starts deleting memories just to be able to handle the info. the effect is much worse with the visionaries and eternalists that they undergo sundowning at the start of the new loop.

[@baitposter]

1:46 They probably thought they would remember, given Wenjie's observations; where Colt and Julianna succeeded

[@tahunuva4254]

Ah yes, that little known indie game, Legend Of Zeda: Majora's Mask.

[@SinkingAbyss]

We all know that Nintendo doesn't exist in Yahtzeeworld

[@tahunuva4254]

@@Jay_76 Idk. Who _can_ know he? .. Kanohi? Anyone? Nevermind..

[@ridwana4037]

Yeah, never heard of Legend of Zeda. Probably some new indie games.

[@tahunuva4254]

@@ridwana4037 goddammit :P

[@SavageGreywolf]

ok sure but no one's going to go around calling timeloop games Majoralikes or something, not if me and my baseball bat ever meet them anyways.

[@diegobrandomtg]

It’s a very short game, but a time loop game called Start Again Start Again Start: a prologue came out recently and I think it’s probably my favorite example of the concept, as it goes in depth on the impact it would have on the characters. Big recommend for anyone who’s got two hours and 11 bucks

[@saintallison]

How insane will it make me feel?

[@diegobrandomtg]

@@saintallison There’s some genuinely harrowing/heartbreaking moments for the protagonist that stick with me even after finishing the game

[@saintallison]

@@diegobrandomtg Just looked it up on Steam and added it to my wishlist :) Thanks for the reccomendation! I'll report back when I play it.

[@yumyum366]

Dinner with an Owl is a very short free indie (single puzzle timeloop).

[@Phourc]

Added to the wishlist as well - where it will languish in obscurity amongst the 200 other titles in said list. >___>

[@baitposter]

3:22 Karnesis has an upgrade that lets you hit groups. I ended up using primarily Karnesis and Shift, Rapier rifle with reload speed as the centerpiece, and a Fourpounder that does more damage to marked enemies. There's also a purple autoshotty you can get that destroys anything that comes within three meters.

[@feral_orc]

I don't think he needed it..

[@baitposter]

@@feral_orc You don't need to do a lot of things in Skyrim, a relatively simplistic RPG, or Cruelty Squad, but people still did them. I think his point was that it seemed relatively useless compared to the alternative of just shooting them, which goes for a lot of games with alternate methods of death-dealing, but I found distinct use cases for it; aside from pushing people off walkways and cliffs a few meters away, it also saves ammo and reload time, and is gross against enemy players who have access to the same varieties of powers you do. I also really didn't like how the LIMP-10 handled, and didn't really stick with it, and so learned different weapon locations. I assume he found Egor's. I have one that bleeds and is geared towards PvP trinkets. I did things I found more fun and rewarding to use/do, things that characterized my own playstyle; and played along the sneaky slidey parkour playstyle of Dishonored it inherits, because you die very quickly in Deathloop in open combat if you try to tank things without Havoc. Smart use of cover also works if you just want to play another modern military FPS, but all of it is optional.

[@QuadfishTym]

​@@baitposter > I think his point was that it seemed relatively useless compared to the alternative of just shooting them, which goes for a lot of games with alternate methods of death-dealing, but I found distinct use cases for it; I don't think this is something you can excuse for a time-loop game though. The whole concept of a time loop works best with a game that is hard enough to force you to find better and more interesting strategies, like most rogue-likes. In Deathloop you can fairly easily just hide around a corner and shoot dudes one at a time without any new enemy types to shake up the routine, so it doesn't give any hard motivation to find better gear or learn more interesting strategies. You could do it just because it's fun and looks cool but the game should encourage and/or force it. For me this was the most disappointing part of Deathloop since Arkane's other recent games would absolutely slap you if you tried to run into a new encounter unprepared. Dishonored would kill you in two pistol shots after breaking stealth, and all but the most basic enemies in Prey could quickly vaporize you before you figure out all the psi powers and good weapons to deal with them. I was an absolute recycling fiend in Prey exactly because the harder enemies made it enticing to get more weapon and ability upgrades; without that challenge I never would have bothered. My first few hours of Deathloop haven't offered any challenges so far and it's killing my motivation to continue.

[@baitposter]

@@QuadfishTym Also noteworthy is that I adore the premise/story, even if it is a diegetic reason for a roguelite loop

[@baitposter]

@@QuadfishTym You should try Cruelty Squad

[@arlequinelunaire418]

While I have nothing against time loops, I do wonder if they've become a little overused, not only in games but in films and anime. But then again, if there's any trope where it being overused makes an eerie amount of thematic sense, it's time loops

[@NightmareBlade10]

I mean time loops are a great gameplay mechanic because progression is tied directly to the amount of information the player acquires, with each "failed" run increasing your proficiency and repertoire of available skills and knowledge to use at your disposal. ( it's the Dark Souls of gameplay mechanics, one could say) When done right the player's sense of progression is completely organic and fulfilling. When done wrong however the story becomes convoluted and if there's not enough player retention the whole thing becomes a jumbled mess and the player has no idea of what to do or how to progress. The game would have to have a really good story to keep the whole thing glued together. But if we're talking about overused story tropes, then I absolutely think Isekai is the worst out of all of them. Every single manga, anime, movie, and everything inbetween is now an Isekai. Now we even have Isekai video games coming out. (Final Fantasy Strangers in Paradise, Forspoken, etc.) It's a horrible trope for video games though because video games are already an interactive medium that you put yourself into and control with an avatar of yourself, except in games like the one I mentioned you won't be playing as a nameless avatar but an underdeveloped character with little to no backstory other than "I come from New York" and a preset appearance. There's no opportunity for establishing an emotional connection with an interesting character because they sacrificed all of that characterization just to have the Isekai gimmick.

[@goffe2282]

There was an interview with one of the devs where they said that they gutted the combat system and replaced it with that ridiculous kick since they couldn't get the latency working with the multi-player component that nobody asked for. Let's see.... solid first-person combat or strangers in my single-player game.... whatever should I choose. ffs.

[@fartsforeyes7651]

Still would have went with the multiplayer

[@goffe2282]

@@fartsforeyes7651 to each his own. I must stop writing stuff like "that nobody asked for" as I am only talking for myself.

[@suraventri2544]

When you are owned by Bethesda, and every publisher is drooling over the Mutliplayer golden goose and wants one of their own... You do the strangers in your single player game. :/

[@Hysteria98]

They also did something like this with Prey (2017). That game is so close to being one of the best games ever made, but they destroyed the MetroidVania design it was built around by deliberately baiting the player into exploring areas early and then cutting them off outright. The game is full of door codes, safe codes and computer passwords, but they randomise most of them for absolutely no decent reason. On top of this, they casualised the game to the point that there is far too much choice of Offensive strategies for enemies that become trivial once you realise how overpowered the shotgun is in the constant close quarters you are fighting. A shotgun of which you have early in the game, of course, and can literally fabricate ammo for very easily. The game is very imbalanced by all the things they threw in that the game didn't need. A modder could honestly fix these things in less than a week and it would fix most of the game problems. It's absolutely infuriating because they were again deliberate, minor design choices that ruined the point of the game design they built the entire fucking thing around. The game even outright tells you in the Prologue "Play Prey YOUR way", and then literally gates you off from multiple areas not 2 minutes later in the very next room.

[@lazrustosadow5880]

One reason I can think of for having no memory of the event after each day is if you were having the best day in the world and then next day is the same and you remember then it gets dull, but if you have your memory reset each time it would never be old and boring

[@felixlord9646]

I’m glad someone else also used the silenced machine pistol to break the game in half like a kitkat

[@valoriumhonorium6061]

Same here. It's especially bad because there's a very solid chance you just accidentally find it by looking at the first interesting outbuilding you see in the Complex, and then it's like "Oh. Guess that makes the stealth a lot easier." I think the Karnesis power was meant to be a ranged stealth kill option, but when you only have two power slots compared to three weapon slots, you get a lot more out of the silenced machine pistol than the Chuck-You-At-Walls-O-Matic.

[@boxhead6177]

Prey Mooncrash DLC had a time loop mechanic, that felt way better and more immersive where it had an increasing difficulty curve where the more you unlocked the more the map changed and the enemies changed including random modifiers... yet Deathloop seemed like a step back from that with its stagnent every enemy has its time/spot and never moves. After playing it I found out that it was different Arkane studios, and they have a weird culture where they don't play the other teams game while they are developing their own. Deathloops lead designer never player Prey Mooncrash... which was the game that made me excited to buy Deathloop. WTF!!! Like Julianna could of been shifting the enemy locations, or giving them better gear or even "lesser" powers. I enjoyed Deathloop, but it felt a flat bronze medal after their previous titles.

[@nisnast]

Thank you for reminding me, I really need to play Mooncrash, Prey was probably my favorite game of 2017.

[@pygmybrain5868]

@@nisnast Played it a long time ago, but I remember it fondly. Only reason I didn’t finish it was cuz it required quite a bit of planning to “beat”, but that’s probably the most positive reason I’ve ever had for dropping a game. Felt awesome to go through each run and learn.

[@nisnast]

@@pygmybrain5868 I'm itching to play it now

[@dandelyon1830]

Wait, the lead designed never played mooncrash? Do you have a source?

[@boxhead6177]

@@dandelyon1830 NoClip documentary youtube channel did an interview with Arkane Lyon. Not only that but his Austin colleague made a similar comment in another doco that he did not see or play Prey until he finished development on Dishonoured 2.

[@SinkingAbyss]

The game addresses that no one who got into the loop realized that they were going to lose there memories every loop. There's multiple mentions of it in both npc dialogue and multiple mentions within the documents/audio logs

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

Then why does Colt keep his memory?

[@Brian-tn4cd]

​@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231why is never really explained, in his first excursion he seemed to have kept his memories before dying and breaking the first loop but for others it seems the trauma of dying made them able to keep remembering, Julianna was actually made to remember by Colt via killing her in multiple ways while trying to figure out a method to let her keep some memories to try to bond with her in the loop (he discovered after the visionaries started the loop that Julianna was his daughter), but it kind of backfired and only made her want to kill Colt as much as possible, putting little care in their relationship

[@inquisitorbenediktanders3142]

1:40 and a bit onwards: I think it makes sense, because everything gets stale if you do it on repeat, so you trick yourself into thinking you haven't repeated it constantly. It's the "make me forget the great story and campaign of a game so I can experience it for the first time again" thing.

[@samadams8533]

On a small note Yatzhee, the eternalists losing their memory each day was addressed in the plot. It was an accident/unintentional

[@toolshedvideo]

You're implying that this game actually had a "plot"

[@samadams8533]

@@toolshedvideo *Spoilers Below* Colt initially traveled to this island with a government agency to investigate the temporal anomaly. While there he fell for one of the scientists, and before finding out she was pregnant was launched into the anomaly to investigate it where he was trapped in the anomaly/time loop for 19 years(during which juliana was born and grew up). Finding out when he tried to kill himself that was how you break the time loop, he was then discovered and taken to a insane asylum. While there the leaders of the eternalists discovered records of the anomaly and theorize creating a time loop paradise(with the belief they would retain their memories), they break colt out of the asylum and recruit him for his knowledge and military training. At some point after the timeloop is started, colt discovers Juliana is his daughter through records on old military bases on the island, however for some reason she is not retaining her memory, so he starts hunting her down and killing her so the trauma would allow her to keep her memory through the loops, as discovering he has more of a reason to live/life to live now that he has a daughter he has become committed to breaking them out of the loop and not have her go through the torture he went through for 19 years. There is more plot that happens during the campaign, and each of the visionaries has a fair amount of backstory/depth to them, but this is a quick overview.

[@toolshedvideo]

@@samadams8533 Everything you just typed out is called "backstory". That's not part of a "plot". Backstory sets up the plot. This game has no plot or storyline. It's just characters and background lore. That isn't a story. I didn't need the backstory, thanks, I've beaten this game.

[@kodaxmax]

@@samadams8533 none of that explains why colt remembers or why the trauma of being murdered by your father repeatedly would make her remember.

[@samadams8533]

@@toolshedvideo You could argue the exact same thing of the soulsborne series, where each time you are coming in at the end of the story, and part of the fun is finding out how it began. Yes your actions/plot elements in game are all part of the end of the narrative, but thats never been a problem before in the soulsborne series where the story/narrative is praised(or for another time loop game the outer worlds). I would the argue the themes of selflshness/individualism vs. relationships/community and examination of epicureanism are also helped out by the environmental storytelling which are part of the story.

[@ReubMann]

being able to save stuff in between time loops feels like it goes against the core of the concept.

[@PaxAuTelamanus]

Yeah, Outer Limits had you saving knowledge but never anything else

[@calpolenthusiast]

perhaps but there would be little point to having any variety with the weapons (particularly the legendary ones) or having any use to the slabs you might acquire at the end of a loop if there was no way to retain. the game wants you to follow a certain path to kill them all and if that's the case then why bother making unique weapons available in areas that divert you away from that main path.

[@ihatetrollingGaming]

that might be because wiping all progress after each reset might have made it closer to a roguelike, and arkane maybe didn't want it to feel like you were doing the same thing over and over again, without any random generation to spice it up or upgrades to give a sense of progress

[@franzfanz]

@@calpolenthusiast I feel like having it save for a certain number of loops would be a better concept or you have to keep spending residuum in order to keep the equipment. So once you work out how to kill everyone you then have to spend a loop or two accumulating the gear that you need for the final loop. It would also add to the tension of those final loops, knowing that failure means several times more around the loop.

[@ryno4ever433]

@@franzfanz That also just sounds annoying.

[@connornewman6696]

“Runs out quicker than an army wife’s vibrator” got me.

[@goliath1179]

I think Majora’s Mask has the biggest prestige for time loops

[@superspider64]

I don't know why but the mental image of you naming a really good pistol "Norman" of all things just really got to me

[@smw1193]

My favorite thing about this game's release is how I can finally stop seeing the damn thing advertised everywhere and anywhere I go.

[@FaTerokiMenra]

My thoughts exactly.

[@annika3265]

This was the game that convinced me there's such a thing as overadvertising.

[@lucasbrayer1867]

*This is Deaaathloooooooop !!!!*

[@zegreatpumpkinani9161]

@@lucasbrayer1867 it's dejaaaaa vuuuuuuuu!

[@Honest-King]

@@annika3265 And genshin impact didn't do that ? But when it comes to a modern game YES DEATHLOOP HAS TOO MUCH ADDS Did I mention: honkai impact, fortnite, valorent, pubg and cod games ?

[@postjm9]

I'm not sure it's possible to exhaustively confirm that Deathloop was not a Rob Liefeld character.

[@roguepsykerhaaker4813]

He's like wolverine but instead of claws he uses serated chacrams. Also he has so many pouches dude. You have no idea how many pouches. He's practically made of pouches

[@KeithFraser82]

*Zero Punctuation prog rock track of the week:* *The Bitter Polyamory of Metroid and Vania* by the *Random Assets*

[@Supaserrin]

This episode's outro card joke has got to be one of the weirdest and most elaborate ones I have ever seen on this channel. I hadn't laughed so hard at one of those since the one in Persona strikers where the dude lit up a firecamp by unlocking his persona.

[@Honest-King]

This guy did a persona 5 strikers review ?? I hope he didn't kill the game like how he did to deathloop

[@user-bf5sc8pn8x]

I didn't get it Edit: I just got it it's weird

[@jmurray1110]

Care to explain

[@sean306]

​@@jmurray1110 "and he never got his explanation."

[@jmurray1110]

@@sean306 and rewatching I’ve definitely figured it out

[@Darkflamecrusader]

Wouldn't it have been more interesting if the targets did keep their memories and the AI adapted each time you killed them?

[@fantasyconnect]

That happens already, its called loop stress. The game explains it all of once. It's why when you're near the end of the game all of the enemies have powerful gear, and can almost instantly recognise Colt.

[@jacksonjamieson6963]

Was that a throwback to: “random documents and audiologs”

[@skyllalafey]

Truly, it would have been a delight if they played that over the end credits. I'd love for it to be a recurring bit on this channel.

[@declan0123456789]

We all know the time loop exemplar game is Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask

[@matthewmuir8884]

Indeed. It's the one that started it all, and it's probably still the one that was best at using the time loop.

[@tach5884]

Majoralike?

[@UltricS]

Not disagreeing with anything said here, but clarifying a few things: Light spoilers for some early game crap I guess? 1) Right next to where you unlock Infusion, there's a voice log from Wenjie explaining that she's noticed things indicating this isn't the first day in the loop and noticing that Colt and Julianna have gotten way better at their job the moment the loop started. On top of that, the entire Infusion quest is based around her trying to remember things between loops. The impression I got from the early bits of exposition on the whole dealio of the island was that it was meant for two parties: Partiers to party, scientists to conduct research, both without any consequences due to the resetting of the day. 2) Nexus does a bit more than just kill everyone linked. Match it with Karnesis and you can grab an entire group of people and slam them into the ground, off cliffs, etc. Speaking of Karnesis, one of the upgrades also lets you manipulate a group in a much smaller radius. It's not the most OP, but it's the most fun power in my opinion so I pretty much always use it. Never been one to care about taking the easiest route instead of the goofier, more amusing options. 3) If you don't enjoy getting invaded, you can turn off online mode and just go around on your own. Personally, I think invasions spice it up a lot and make it more fun, but I can totally see myself turning it off if I'm just trying to complete the game.

[@angeldeb82]

LOLed at all kinds of imps: telephone receiver-wearing imps, imps getting their heads blown off, and imps killing the protagonist in many ways! XD

[@WoodlandDrake]

Honestly, I think Outer Wilds exemplifies the time loop mechanic the best, since the loops actually matter because of the schedule the planets are keeping. There are areas of the game you will just never know about unless you get there at the right time, missed the window, oh well might as well fling yourself into the sun and try again.

[@Willie6785]

yeah, and I also adore how you don't really unlock anything besides superficial logs of what you found on previous expeditions, so your actual knowledge of the game and its locations is what matters most.

[@cpssee]

"Beer o clock and regeret o clock" nice to see someone else lives in my timezone too.

[@SofaKing401]

He should try the Mooncrash DLC for Prey. It's basically Death loop but fixes all of his gripes.

[@slambangaction]

Mooncrash is well designed for sure, but unfortunately, after completing it, I realized roguelikes just aren't for me. I just need to be able to take my time, is all.

[@edremy1]

@@slambangaction You can take all the time you want in Mooncrash- while you're technically up against a timer, the game also offers a tool which you can abuse the fark out of. I can rescue everyone and still be at corruption 1.

[@slambangaction]

@@edremy1 I assume you're referring to the purple hourglass that reduces the corruption level. I did indeed use that a lot in order to get all the trophies in the DLC, but it's a consumable, which meant I was always a little tense about whether I was managing my inventory and spending my time and sim points wisely. The hardest part was getting all five characters out in one run, but I still felt more relief than satisfaction when I did finally manage to beat the whole thing, a far cry from what I felt when I Platinumed the main game, which was "I CANNOT WAIT to give this another go without thinking about trophy hunting!"

[@Ozzianman]

@@slambangaction That is just one roguelike though, most so not use time limits.

[@whatfruit7965]

I obtained this in the humble bundle and finally played it. I found myself really enjoying it. It seems to take the progressive ideas Arkane introduced in the last dishonored game (death of the outsider) and ramped them up to 11. Consequence free stealth, providing a box of toys a resetting playground and then letting the player use them how they see fit. Making the power bar auto refill rather than relying on pick ups or items. Removing money, no body hiding, generous ammo. Its a game of excess rather than restriction. Hope it gets a sequel.

[@Age2003]

the sailing ship line caught me off guard and i can't stop laughing.

[@recyclebin5571]

4:38 *Julianna's on the hunt* *Hack the antenna to unlock your tunnels*

[@TuffMelon]

Gonna be honest, wanting to relive the same day over and over without remembering it seems perfectly logical to me. Part of what would send you insane about time loops is the way things repeat over and over without anything changing. if they don't remember it, they can get the first time experience again and again and again, even if they never remember enjoying it the previous times. Which would be a perfectly good reason to have them get killed to stop the loop, since they're so stupid to think that was a good idea.

[@tracesosebee5485]

Well think about why they might want to reset their memories: if they didn"t, eventually the partying and drinking would become the rule rather than the exception, becoming stale and meaningless. But resetting the memory keeps it fresh

[@MagicCardboardBox]

I think outer wilds has stood the test of time more than anything else, but we all know everything timeloop is only ever gonna be a groundhog day

[@ExhaustedElox]

I hope that Yahtzee and Norman live very happily together.

[@84jesterx]

Loved the Liefeld reference

[@tarrker]

"You can't just show up to a figure skating contest with one leg in a cast and hope to make up for it with a sparkly mini skirt". This one phrase describes a shockingly large amount of "Triple A" games in recent years that have fallen just short of their mark.

[@svenbtb]

Don't forget that you have to buy a battle pass and play for 30 days consecutively to get said mini skirt, lol

[@Rigel_6]

Personally, I still think that the "Cause and effect" level from Titanfall 2 is the best way to handle a time travel mechanic in game. Hell, I'd pay full price for an entire campaign built around that one gadget.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Have you heard of Singularity? It's basically that but with Russians, mutants, and consequences for your time-travelling.

[@captainkaiju2273]

Like MapleSyrup said, I think you'd enjoy Singularity. It's not mechanically the same as that Titanfall 2 mission, but you do get to age people into literal dust which never gets old

[@Ozzianman]

Majoras Mask does time looping pretty darn well.

[@BlankPicketSign]

The Imp fucking itself in the portal was genius

[@Merchantic]

When they explain that you get better loot from killing more Visionaries per loop, I was hoping for some really amazing upgrades late-game... and I just got more of the same that I already had. Also, you would think that after learning that there's a mass murdering Colt killing everyone, that the enemies would be equipped with more and more deadly weapons / armor to make each enemy that much harder... but that would force the player into a more stealth approach later on which I guess isnt what they wanted so the player keeps the choice of stealth or run n gun?

[@helplmchoking]

Yeah I totally get one loop not affecting the next - no one remembers and that's fine. But why not have the world react throughout the day? If I completely erase all living beings in a zone first thing in the morning, why are the exact same enemies as always come lunch time? Why is it not either deserted or full of panicked lunatics freaking out about their hundreds of dead mates and invisible genocide-machine running around? That felt weird to me... I believe the enemies are supposed to get harder as you play through the story, but I never felt like getting spotted mattered like it did in Dishonored. Either you one shot them instantly or walk around a corner and they give up

[@suraventri2544]

@@helplmchoking I just put it down to them all being high and drunk, and not really caring all that much to notice that they should be more worried about Colt. And the Visionaries are too self-involved to help one-another.

[@omnicious]

The reason why they would want to wipe their own memories at the end of the day is likely to avoid the existential dread of living the same day every day like in Groundhog's Day.

[@cashuflakbreakdancer]

I was thinking the same. They explain in game that it was an accident but i was thinking about the feeling of dread that would start to take over after the 6th or so same party day in a row.

[@kamikazeraider]

That's essentially what's implied to have happened to everyone, Colt included, by dialog with Julianna and some other bits you hear from Wenjie. Eventually they loop for so long that they get incredibly bored and this ennui kinda...stops their brain from retaining information from loop to loop. Julianna even says that she's been killing Colt over and over to jog his memory back into retaining things, and it works just as you start the game.

[@MissGrimm]

@@kamikazeraider exactly - it doesn’t seem like Yahtzee went deep enough into the game to get the full story, which is largely told through the tapes and the letters.

[@Darkthestral1]

There was a terrible missed opportunity for a death Rube Goldberg Machine/mouse trap type play where the loop is the machine and you're a psychotic marble trying it over and over until you've found every possible way to kill everyone. Having different consequences and/or endings for different completion sequences would really add some spice.

[@svenbtb]

Yeah, they totally should have had more endings depending on the world state each day and done more to make the world feel more interesting to explore each time

[@eduardoschmitzfilho5767]

am I the only one who thinks majoras mask is the best example of a time loop game done right?

[@matthewmuir8884]

You are far from being alone in thinking that; half the comments under this video are people pointing out that Majora's Mask is the exemplar of the time loop genre.

[@fartsforeyes7651]

No

[@BoatSoccerPlayer]

Now I'm just having fun saying "de schloop" over and over again

[@losersbecomewinners2043]

“That thing was my friend for life. I named it Norman” I laughed so hard here, i actually fell on the floor

[@seatspud]

The Liefeld jab at the end credits got me. (And I know the Deathloop character will have way too many pouches as well as barely visible feet!)

[@mikefang9995]

You know thinking about it, I can think of a reason why the guys in charge would want to reset their own memories: so they wouldn't get bored reliving the same day over and over. Every day would seem like a fresh experience to them.

[@smward87]

The thing is though it is explained and it's quite simple: they didn't know they would forget. It was an unforeseen side effect.

[@unknown-kj4qp]

And thus, the previously named "time loop genre" was henceforth referred to as the "thloop genre"

[@theR1ch]

Why reset their memories every day? That's an easy one. The thrill of partying every day wears off quick ultimately leading to mental breakdowns and knowledge and pain of every suicide attempt/failure. Don't mean to go "I have no mouth and I must scream" on it, but yeah. Partying followed by a daily memory wipe is a great option.

[@Pusher97]

Ah, the ol’ random documents and audio logs

[@dee-kay4311]

Playing as Juliana and using the strelak 50/50 with increased fire rate, magazine and short reloads is practically bullying

[@SageOutsider]

What you really need to do, is get the trinkets that let you gain health from inflicting melee damage, and the other that knocks anyone the fuck over, if you hit them while sprinting. Combine with Nexus, and you’re a self healing juggernaut.

[@MrSilviusBrabo]

Yahtzee getting real at the end there and offering a non snarky opinion took me back a bit, always does

[@toddoverholt4556]

I do like that Sexy Brutale got a mention! That game is a gem with an awesome soundtrack

[@SayMy_User_Name]

1:41 the visionaries didn’t know they wouldn’t remember anything from day to day when they set the loop up, and now that the loop has started they all lose their memories after the first day and it repeats forever, so none of them have any idea that they’re forgetting nor did they know that would be a side effect of the loop I absolutely love this game, it’s a breath of fresh air while also being familiar to arkanes previous games and improving upon all the ideas concepts and gameplay in dishonored and prey .. I really do think this game deserved the 10/10 scores, it’s an amazing game

[@nexuslord6831]

To be honest, it's probably a good thing they don't remember anything- I mean, lets look at immortality. Inevitably, all those pleasures to escape the real world become meaningless and lose their charm. With it, they don't feel like escaping because, sure, the world's gonna end- But might as well meet your end than never meet an end filled with now empty pleasures.

[@randallporter1404]

0:56 De thloop LOL

[@aramanon]

I think, if there is looping, when your day ends and you go back to the "I got you babe" moment to start your day, you experience everyone else repeating their day unaware of your private history- your consciousness goes back into a new reality but everyone else's goes back to create a new reality with them at the middle of it. It's turtles all the way down.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

More like n^n turtles :P

[@manavsridharan3811]

Just finished playing Deathloop today. You know what, it's actually not a very fun game. It is an extremely well made game. There's tiny secrets everywhere if you look for them, there's little puzzles to solve. But it's all soooo disconnected from the core gameplay loop that I had to channel the effort to even engage with any of them. I'll list out my issues with the game now, for personal catharsis if nothing else. 1. The lack of a map. This game is already so confusingly layed out, and we keep switching between 4 locations at 4 times of the day. Would it have killed to have a map? Also a map encourages exploring unexplored bits of the map, which in turn helps fill out the game with more side stuff. 2. The side stuff being too vague. I remember a locker under the bar with a machine gun that needed a crank wheel to open. But what's the point of this? What's the point of the other side missions? I also remember, in a random place there's a battery charging station. I was wondering what it was going to be used for, but was never able to find anything and couldn't bother. The game has a lot of toys, but I have no reason to engage with them. 3. The combat, I actually don't like it. The stealthing around with powers worked well in Dishonored, where you had limited resources and had to kill your targets through stealth only. Now it's just gun down repeat gun down repeat. 4. Lastly, the world was dense. With so much detail. I wanted to explore. But the cocking enemies keep getting in the way. It feels like a chore to visit each location separately at different times of the day just to explore it a bit. What this game should have had is the ability for us to walk around without being targeted when the day starts, and people getting more alert as the day goes by and Julianna keeps convincing them.

[@Landis963]

I suspect Plot Hole #1 is answered by Plot Hole #2: Colt wants to escape because no one besides himself and Julianna remembers anything, so everyone else is just repeating the same lines over and over again. (Also, you've met these people. Plot Hole #2 is easily answered by the notion that they wanted one timeloop, hold the amnesia, and got the timeloop with the amnesia on the side)

[@creeperslayer241]

I think the levels system is probably the thing that kills it the most. My favourite thing about time loop games is, well, using the loop to your advantage. Some things having a time limit, especially when you don't know it the first few times, is the best thing to discover. Say you find out that 5 minutes into the loop this person will pick up a gun to try and kill someone. But what if you rushed there and took the ammo out before the 5 minute mark? Well then a fight would happen and the person would get killed during it. There's your Assassination. There's your use of the loop. Loop games are often about either perfecting a route or simply discovering information through methods that take a lot of the loop and then implementing that information in a small amount of time in the next loop. Like spending a lot of time in a conversation to find out that Steve always gets his coffee from this one place at a certain time. Next loop you can run down there and poison it. Etc etc. Having to fight against the time limit or using it to your advantage is often the biggest part of the game. Like it 12 minutes, you can go through a route and she'll say "The thing is in the-" and the loop restarts. Its frustrating, you are fighting against time, but you now have new information to use. Its why time loop games often have a short span of time. One, to make the race against the clock a good mechanic. And Two, to not make it feel like such a task having to restart. Which is why I think a day is far too long and the levels betray it. I mean half the draw is going "I know what I'm doing, this game can be beat in 15 minutes. Let's go, final loop." From what I've seen in this game, you seem to be able to take your sweet ass time. I generally don't see the purpose of the loop mechanic in the game.

[@but_in_space_though2919]

De Sloop seemed like it'd be the big dog in the time loop genre, but I guess we're going back to the beginning eh??

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

I've been somewhat oblivious of Deathloop, but recently saw it pop up in a jumpscare complication as a player got unexpectedly sniped by a camping multiplayer opponent who knew exactly where to wait for him.

[@tbromwell]

A Sloop joke. You got me. That joke was written for me. Thank you for your targeted comedy.

[@TheIllusiveMan11]

I love how the 'plot holes' he lists are not plot holes but are all things you learn from playing the game XD

[@Namisar]

Yeah once you find 'Norman' the silenced SMG, all other guns become either too loud, or too slow.

[@MissGrimm]

Nah, I literally ran around with the Sterlak 50-50 off Charlie and the Rapier off Egor and absolutely dominated the platinum trophy.

[@emptank]

The zero punctuation OTP: Norman the silenced submachine gun X Florence the fully upgraded far cry 4 sniper rifle.

[@darkroast9907]

The very first weapon I ever found that I could infuse was a silenced Uzi. It was the only weapon I ever used, because I could snipe headshot every enemy in the game without ever alerting anyone. This appears to be exactly what happened to Yahtzee.

[@crystalsoulslayer]

A lot of the combat difficulty in the Dishonored games stems from the limitations of the weapons you have in combination with the number of people you have to fight when you're caught. So it makes sense that removing a lot of those limitations would kick the difficulty off a cliff. If the Dishonored pistol were a silenced automatic weapon with more range than a sneeze, the combat would get pretty trivial in many ways. Especially if you don't have to aim that well to get a lethal shot off.

[@octaldeer]

That was a Friday Night Dinner reference with Auntie Val. I appreciate that. No one else will, but there ya go.

[@thejackal007]

The Von Braun... well, guess I will be replaying System Shock 2 for Halloween again this year.

[@gabeclement1131]

I wouldn't consider wanting to leave a party timeloop a plot hole... I would want to escape ANY timeloop, regardless of what was actually happening in it. I might hang out for a while, if it was a particularly entertaining timeloop, but I'd still try to leave eventually.

[@ToaArcan]

Yahtzee's experience with invaders is basically just the standard multiplier shooter experience. "Here are all the fun and unique weapons we've put into this game that each have their own strengths and weaknesses... and here's the Death Telescope that lets some jackass who isn't even trying surprise insta-kill everyone else while sitting at a distance far outside the maximum effective range of most other weapons." The only joy sniper rifles have ever brought to multiplayer games is the pleasure of sneaking up on one and perforating them with a short-range weapon just for the sake of it.

[@chadbertrand1460]

The missions in the original Hitman games played out like timeloops. Non-player events unfolded exactly the same way in each attempt, unless you interfered.

[@mastermold10]

it 'was' explained regarding the memory issue they were SUPPOSED to remember, but something went wrong and only juliana and (ususaly) colt remember, as well as one or two npcs.

[@Alluvian567]

I thought the whole not keeping memories thing was quite explained that it was NOT the intent at all. You can learn more about the details about how the memory thing didn't work as planned if you dig into details, but there is evidence pretty much everywhere you go that it was not the intent. Like the 10 million references to people talking about "day 1". And talking about what they were going to do tomorrow. They CLEARLY didn't intend for memories to not persist. And not wanting out of a loop like that, even if you CAN remember is really weird. Never being able to meet a new person, never being able to wake up NOT hungover like colt wakes up every day, that seems odd. A loop like that would be incredibly shitty once the novelty wears off. See groundhog day. Also, it is a few mouse clicks to turn off the invaders if you don't want them. It defaults to on, but on the second day of it being active the game shows you how to turn it off. All that said, the game balance really DOES feel messed up. The game is incredibly easy and only ever becomes a little bit hard when you just get TOO cocky because it is so darn easy. Stealth is way too easy, going loud is way too easy. It only gets hard if you run through the whole level shooting a loud gun then fight the entire level at once. And still that is very doable. The voice actors for Colt and Juliana really make the game IMO. Sad that every other character on the island is written to be the definition of annoying. It is like this time loop itself. Seems like a great idea and then the novelty wears off. At least the game is not that incredibly long if you don't intentionally extend it by getting sidetracked.

[@romank90]

So mechanically it is Hitman? You repeat a level until you find a sequence to kill all targets? So like a big Hitman Level with 8 targets?

[@toolshedvideo]

Not at all. There's basically one normal way to get them, and then there's the correct way to eliminate all of them. It's not like Hitman where they give you a bunch of different ways to do things.

[@romank90]

@@toolshedvideo so it's like Hitman knockoff with more shooting, less stealth and just one solution?

[@lawsonlarue6032]

I liked Deathloop but there were definitely a few things they should have changed 1. The challenge could have maybe been helped a bit if they only let you keep one thing from each loop and just wrote that into the plot. 2. Make the ending not total ass

[@durnolog6617]

YOOO, Space-Hopper, didn't expect a Flatterland reference!

[@JRPKeller]

"Let's add multiplayer options to a single player experience!" What a shock....you didn't end up with tense pistol duels....you ended up with asshole griefing snipers who are probably looking for exploits and hacks that will allow them to do it in 0.0001 seconds. Well there was no way you could have known about that result unless you had played ANY MULTIPLAYER FPS WITH A SNIPER RIFLE IN IT THAT HAS EVER BEEN MADE. Dafuq....

[@hollamonm]

Honestly, I think the game that started the concept is Majora's Mask. Like, in terms of the premise of you're reliving the same amount of time over and over and losing specific items (like in Majora's Mask where, iirc, you only keep *specific* masks which are from completed sidequests or main campaign, and Link's arsenal of items that aren't masks.... wonder if after temple 4 you could do a complex series of tasks that allow for all sidequests to be finished, complete each boss fight a second time, and then save everyone allowing for all to get their happy ending....? Probably, also, probably a thing that someone has done.

[@kyoshifrostwolf]

I like the active effort to not say "game play *loop* " at the end there.

[@poulanthrope]

Having never played it, remembering all the days that have gone by will eventually lead to you being bored with the state of things. You'll say and do everything a million times over. A daily memory wipe sounds like a good idea for preventing a stale existence and the onset of depression or something else. I'm actually disappointed in reading the comments that they decided it was accidental, because forgetting on purpose makes more sense than trying to remember what happened the previous loop.

[@shankypanky8879]

Deathloop has really fun gameplay to offer you for around 6-7 hours. But that fun is sandwiched between the initial 3-hour tutorial and the final 8 hours of doing chores and visiting the same places again and again until you start to hate them. And all the endings are as good as a soggy toast sandwich with fungus on it.

[@gileee]

Nice Yahtzee impression