Huawei's 5nm chip shocker (update in pinned comment)

Givewell: Get your first $100 donation matched by selecting KZbin and entering "Friday Checkout" at (sponsored): givewell.org
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►►► This video ◄◄◄
This week Huawei announced their 5nm Kirin 9006c chip for laptops, Intel officially launched their 14th gen Meteor Lake Core Ultra laptop chips, the EU announced their AI Act and Google lost in court to Epic Games.
Episode 177
This video on Nebula: nebula.tv/videos/tfc-huawei-h...
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►►► TechAltar links ◄◄◄
Social media:
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►►► Attributions & Time stamps◄◄◄
Writing & Research: Tristan Rayner
Music by Edemski: / edemski
Stock assets: Getty Images, AP Archive
0:00 Intro
0:24 The Brief
2:04 Huawei 5nm
3:15 Intel 14th gen
5:19 EU AI Act
7:06 Google loses to Epic

[@TheFridayCheckout]

UPDATE: turns out the Huawei chip is most likely made by TSMC and quietly stocked from before the US sanctions. More details here: www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-05/huawei-qingyun-l540-laptop-teardown-reveals-5nm-chip-by-tsmc-not-china-s-smic

[@edwardmorrell4751]

I AM CRAZY!!!

[@edwardmorrell4751]

GIVE ME MONEY!!!

[@richardhall-trafford8653]

Just answer this question are Huawei making laptops.

[@edwardmorrell4751]

@@richardhall-trafford8653 NO ME FIRST!

[@AwesomeBlackDude]

Yes Thread the new Gov back door and X replacement. 😅

[@SirBlicks]

Even if 5nm manufacturing is 3-4 years behind, they have done an awful lot in the past few years since the ban to get to these chips.

[@user-rt6ip4kb1i]

what is important is that US and its allies have forced China to build its own industry and supply chain for IT and semi conductor production.

[@dzibanart8521]

​@@user-rt6ip4kb1iindeed it backfired so hard.

[@sanyomoto5029]

Like Taylor Swift said"LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO"

[@LOLLOL-kg4dz]

people should remember even tsmc taiwan chip is made by chinese han ethnic born in china , doesnt matter now he live in taiwan , he still han ethnic , if little taiwan 24million population can make chip, nobody can stop 1,4 billions mainland chinese to make 3nm or 1nm chip soon or later ,sanction only make china stronger its prove many times

[@haagenslash5963]

As soon as we have a western source verifying it I'll give em their attaboy. Intel has already shown that "nm" is a mostly fictional number at this point and Intel wasn't a pawn in a trade war. They have every reason to stretch the truth with basically no reason not to.

[@ragingsilver]

I'm glad I got to visit E3 before it retired. Very memorable moment for me, had a great time there and met so many cool people.

[@protocetid]

I liked E3 better, professional journalists got additional information from developers and they got to play some pre-release demos. The way it's done now sucks, a game announcement happens and a bunch of self absorbed hype men flood KZbin with worthless speculation and reaction videos.

[@evertonc1448]

Honestly, people saying the sanctions won’t evolve China’s chip manufacturing capacity are just in denial. There’s clearly something happening there 🤷

[@YoutubeWatcher264]

Yeah. This is suspicious. Propaganda channels and sites haven't talked about it yet. Something's amiss.

[@Josh23838]

REAL suspicious.

[@JoelBergmark]

As someone working for a somewhat well-known Chinese sanctioned telecom company, I can say you are 100% and that 2nm means not so much, just check the optical chipset that was released a few weeks ago, big in size sure but very speedy

[@capybaraRed]

This channel said this in that bullshit "China is doomed because foreign companies will leave" video from a few months ago.

[@RavarsenBlogspot]

Yes more theft

[@duskyroyal]

Always look forward to The Friday Checkout!

[@PaulLembo]

Let’s be honest, most KZbinrs don’t have sufficient test rigs to put out meaningful numbers on battery life. They are “influencers” aka in marketing, pretending to be hard tech and this shows that. Stick to what you are good at people.

[@RokeJulianLockhart.s13ouq]

LTT stated they would soon using their new laboratory. I've heard little since.

[@Roy_1]

I think part of the issue is how large of inferences they draw from very small sample sizes. LMG is wise to take their time if they expect to make any meaningful improvements regarding this.

[@jagersama9792]

​@@RokeJulianLockhart.s13ouq tbh i don't think they'll do a better job than what we can find already that still is kinda poor. Nobody isolates nor differentiate between device power consumption, screen power consumption, SoC power consumption, and motherboard power or even use then interchangeably.

[@RokeJulianLockhart.s13ouq]

@@jagersama9792 If only we had device schematics and device efficiency compliance information published by law.

[@abdur2890]

I mean if even sample differs wildly then its not good to market. Because as a consumer they don't have to think about what all goes backend what they need is they get what the performance claimed maybe a minor 3-5% doesn't matter but any higher its Quality Control issue.

[@laStar972chuck]

That GiveWell thing really is a nice sponsor and you sold it very well !!

[@lingth]

I still remember ppl were saying China is at least 20 years behind TSMC in chip technology. If its true it would take them 20 years to get to 3nm chips, but they are already closing the gap at 5nm if its true.. i guess China maybe catching up in less than 5 years.

[@user-du8bf2ym7q]

TSMC itself was created by the Chinese people Li Guoding (January 28, 1910 - May 31, 2001) was a politician and economist of the Republic of China. He was born in Jiangning, Jiangsu (now Nanjing), and his ancestral home was Wuyuan, Anhui (now part of Jiangxi Province). He obtained a Bachelor's degree in Physics from National Central University. Known as an important driver of Taiwan's economic miracle and the godfather of technology in Taiwan, he has served as the Minister of Economy and Finance of the Republic of China Sun Yunqian Birth information: December 8, 1913, Shandong Province Education background: Harbin Institute of Technology In Taiwan, it is known as the "Forever Premier of the Executive Yuan". During his nearly 20 year tenure as Minister and Chief Executive, he and then President of the Republic of China, Chiang Ching kuo, promoted the Ten Major Construction Projects, and together with Lee Kuo ding, promoted the establishment of the Hsinchu Science and Technology Industrial Park, planning early science and technology policies for the Republic of China; Many people believe that it is not only the main founder of Taiwan's technology industry, but also one of the "drivers of Taiwan's economy" and an important contributor to the economy of the Republic of China. Zhang Zhongmou, born on July 10, 1931 in Ningbo, Zhejiang, is the founder of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., Ltd. (TSMC) and is known as the "chip king" and the "semiconductor godfather" of Taiwan. Member of the board of directors of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an academician of the Taiwan Academy of Mechanical Sciences, as well as serving as an advisor to the New York Stock Exchange and Stanford University.

[@sportsonwheelss]

They have already figure out how to manufacture 5nm node with their new order EUV equipment from ASML. Probably 3nm by now if the US didn't Tanya Harding by blocking ASML shipment of the machine.

[@Flipflopflopper]

Turns out the 5nm and 7nm chips were both made in Taiwan, China is actually even further behind then experts were expecting

[@EthicalAllele]

Yes please make that video on activity hubs and federations!

[@obvinpro]

Meteor Lake is not a 14th gen chip, it's Raptor Lake. Meteor Lake is a start of a new chip architecture and generation which brings a new name with it, Intel Core Ultra 5, 7 and 9

[@extreme123dz]

In other words, a fucking refresh from 2012 but naming better for idiots, LOL

[@user-mj9tr3ym5t]

Not until it’s out we presume it’s still 10nm outdated spec

[@piplupempoleon4225]

Its technically 14th gen chip, since performance wise not that different

[@Ludak021]

@@user-mj9tr3ym5t outdated specs are competing just fine with "current" AMD specs because people don't care about power usage unless they are poor. No amount of fanboism is going to change that. Until "we presume" - no one cares. No one even knows who "you" are. @piplupempoleon4225 Its technically 14th gen chip, since performance wise not that different - ok, X3D cpus use the same tech as every other chip from that node and it's much faster in certain tasks, only difference is more cache on core. What I am saying is, that you construed your conclusion poorly. Also, technically it's not 14th gen chip since that was the previous one. quote from Intel: "Intel Core 14th Gen Desktop Processors launching Oct. 16, 2023, feature six new unlocked desktop CPUs for enthusiasts: i9-14900K/KF, i7-14700K/KF and i5-14600K/KF. These new processors are available at retailers and OEM partner systems starting Oct. 17, 2023. (Credit: Intel Corporation)"

[@ansumansamal8473]

I wanna know whatever that interoperability of social media is

[@israelgaladima292]

Me too

[@user-ue6zx2do2f]

Just Afraid of the European Union

[@RokeJulianLockhart.s13ouq]

It's referred to as ActivityPub. You can test it on almost any Mastodon instance.

[@remyborius1706]

I want too

[@Virtusoo]

+1

[@TrebleSketch]

I’d be keen for an ActivityPUB explainer video! Same with Mastodon/Threads and whenever Tumblr is going to get that implementation done. Alongside with alternatives like the ATProtocol from Bluesky and such :)

[@dlewis9760]

You came across as a water carrier for them. Nice to see you have the integrity to change the title and put in an update.

[@chlorophyllphile]

Video about fedaration? Yes please!

[@29-vibhusingh74]

Yes we want a whole video on activity hub and stuff pls

[@AKK5I]

Damn kirin has done what Intel still can't lol

[@YoutubeWatcher264]

To be fair x86 processors are a very different architecture to ARM.

[@ThePowerLover]

The 5nm of the Kirin seems, at best, like the 5nm of Samsung, which is like Intel 7, this year, in 2023, Intel started using massively Intel 4.

[@havencat9337]

EXACTLY! people dont realise but the restrictions have made them stronger!

[@miaya3898]

huawei is trailing qualcomm in 5G and ahead of apple who basically gave up.

[@monipenny408]

more importantly, it is China that has prompted U$ corporations to start innovating again, be more competitive, instead of "rent seeking" economy based on past IPs@@havencat9337

[@Dazz_Youniversual_Studios]

Wait, did he say that Huawei's new laptops are running Linux???🤩

[@YoutubeWatcher264]

Probably Linux that apes Windows 10/11.

[@ahriboy]

Yeah, running Deepin

[@lesleyhaan116]

@@ahriboy oh the fake Mac OS 😂😂😂

[@ahriboy]

@@lesleyhaan116 nah, not really. Linux DEs are different from macOS' Aqua.

[@lesleyhaan116]

@@ahriboy I mean the design of Deepin that looks like Mac OS

[@isuruthiwanka2595]

Im here only for Huawei news

[@LZentertainments]

Happy Friday Marton

[@lyledal]

I'd like to see a video on the privacy implications of Threads federating to Mastodon and other activitypub services.

[@technolus5742]

I'm glad facebook is integrating with mastodon. Thats a clever move, and a move towards a symbiosis with the open source community which facebook has been having success with (with things like react and with ai). Hopefully they wont pull a fast one...

[@tubester358]

also, by integrating with federated sites like Mastadon people can create their accounts on Zuck's servers to use on those other sites instead of the other way around. One of the main issues with federation is you can't be sure how long the server you wanna create an account on would last or be consistent, services run by big tech like Fb or Google have more longevity and are easier to jump into since most people have a gmail and fb acct (Threads is logged into via Insta which can be logged into via Fb).

[@ahriboy]

In the end, Threads will soon be defederated by smaller instances as a security measure.

[@technolus5742]

@@ahriboy I'm sure some will. But I really hope thus can be a step toward users owning more of their data and platforms being more interoperable. If this is successful, other smaller platforms might follow and band together to compete against the bigger ones. Just like there is a strong right to repair movement, there should be a stringer right to migrate movement demanding companies to provide some level of interoperability.

[@fuseteam]

*threads, if facebook's main site gets federated is another story. I don't see an incentive for them to stay isolated, i do see incentive for the opposite tho

[@technolus5742]

@@fuseteam Facebook should be read as Meta in my comments lol

[@bvnger3099]

Yes please tell us about activity pub and federation 🙏🏾

[@tomsuper2199]

I would love to see a video explaining federation and mastodon as well!

[@johnibambohni]

Yeah, I would love some background on ActivityPub and Federation! 🙂

[@theanuragsoni]

Please make a full video Activity pub and federation the interoperable social media platforms

[@brijendrasai1513]

6:27 BEST thing i heard in AI news ever

[@muhireemmy7337]

this guy is becoming my second best youtuber to MKBHD! Keep it up Brother. the info delivery and the brief are just satisfying. Big thumbs👍👍

[@derek8564]

You need to raise the bar man....

[@piplupempoleon4225]

Mkbhd is out of depth, geekerwan from china is god of smartphone and spesific laptop cpu, gpu review, gamers nexus and hardware unboxed are god of pc review

[@ZigUncut]

@thefridaycheckout yes to the first question. Interoperable socials sounds fascinating

[@Legitti]

Thanks for giving EU love with threads 🔥

[@rodoherty1]

Yes, please make a video about ActivityPub and the Fediverse!

[@ahriboy]

ColdFusion documented about Threads and ActivityPub

[@giacintoboccia9386]

Yes, Meteor Lake may trade balls with AMD's 7xxx series, but it may need to compete against the 8xxx.

[@iraklimgeladze5223]

8xxx copy of 7xxx only change is dedicate ai hardware. It have same 4zen, same clocks, same cores, same APU, same cache

[@keking2178]

U already move to the next one? Who said china needs 5-10 yrs to develop their own chip?😂

[@00z53]

Would like to see your explanation on Activity pub

[@uhohwhy]

hyped for 15th gen

[@divyanshbhutra5071]

I like how everyone forgot AMD chips having dedicated NPU for an year, which still ties with Intel's in performance.

[@tstager1978]

Yes and Hawkpoint has an even better NPU! It has already been announced.

[@divyanshbhutra5071]

@@tstager1978 Precisely!

[@mawkzin]

2 Things. 1-AMD disable their NPU in almost half of their zen 4/4c skus (the pheonix 2 don't have the XDNA on it). 2-Intel still has more market share in notebook market and their new meteor lake wil have the npu available in all skus.

[@tstager1978]

Hawkpoint will take it from here. Phoenix 2 was a test chip. @@mawkzin

[@Innosos]

It's like no regular user cares about AI chips. Shocker.

[@ajimbong1623]

Please do make a video on how activity pub works 🙏

[@hanve]

Yeah want a details video on activity pub & federation❤❤❤

[@Ronnet]

Google: "Do no evil"... Gets caught doing evil. Apple: "see no evil"... Pokes the eyes out of their victims and wins.

[@YoutubeWatcher264]

To be fair they removed their "Do no evil" slogan years ago.

[@miaya3898]

​@@GH0STST4RSCR34Mit did. don't be evil was a diss on microsoft. people have forgotten that.

[@abdullahzafar4401]

Where can I get more info on this ... ?

[@woodworking406]

Both companies are two of the most evil in the world.

[@protocetid]

@@woodworking406Every megacorp is evil, the question is how much each specific one is. Apple needs to have its anticompetitive walled garden opened up some more, the EU already made a bit of progress.

[@sofiamn_05]

1:05 yes of course!

[@keybraker]

For them to up the GS23 lineup with the GS24 with a whopping 10+ mill or 40% increase, they must have a banger which they probably do not have. The GS23 lineup was stellar and they managed 25 mil, I do not believe they will go a lot higher than that.

[@avramflorin4216]

@TheFridayCheckout Unisoc has in mass production the UIS7870 a 6nm 8 core chp: 1 x ARM cortex - A76 （2.7GhZ），3 x ARM cortex - A76（2.3Ghz），4 x ARM cortex - A55（2.1Ghz） Network Built-in 4G

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@Brixdorf]

Yes man, please make a video about Federated Social Media. ❤

[@mukhtar__]

waiting for that activitypub video 👀

[@David-Dumont]

Hope Givewell will do well

[@wintrywind]

I would like a video on how the fediverse works!

[@Bare_Essence]

No where on the AI pyramid did I see weapons of war and combat using AI. Hmmmm. I guess there's no risk with that. Cool.

[@0pTicaL]

2:50 I'm actually more interested in the Mini RJ45 connector and why don't more laptops utilize it.

[@Versette]

I didn't notice that 👀 That's certainly interesting, but I wonder what's the point of that when there are collapsible RJ45s of similar size (not sure if I'm using the right word, but those that fold that some laptops use), and if not that, then you can always use a USB C network adapter or hub that comes with one (that first option is basically the same size as an mini RJ45 to full size adapter).

[@Sasa-lz4lt]

I wish Huawei comes back to EU, I still miss having my P30 Pro

[@DjDanny44]

But only if they allow bootloader unlock

[@MZRTMusic254]

​@@DjDanny44I've never used a Huawei phone. Why was that?

[@gantenbeinable]

They never went out. You can buy Huawei products online in EU.

[@oneito947]

why do you guys underestimate huawei this much, this is a company that has proven time and again if they cant be joined, they can pull off on their own

[@YoutubeWatcher264]

Or steal.

[@squalllfviii]

@@KZbinWatcher264Huawei has the most advanced 5G tech. Why steal from others that have inferior tech. They are already working on 6G.

[@miaya3898]

​@@KZbinWatcher264the west is the biggest thief.

[@em_monarch]

Americans are delusional. They want China to fail so bad that they'd rather believe in a lie than reality.

[@humpydumpy2432]

​@@KZbinWatcher264can you explain me how to steal chip making technology? Why is Endia not doing so?

[@obwotsolomon6719]

Activity Hub video please 🙏

[@adameordogh3065]

Please do the vid on activity pub & federation

[@TaofikiGafar]

Please the a video about interoperability social media

[@mai9]

It would have been nice to say where the judge is from in the epic vs Google.

[@LeoDas688]

It might benefit android manufactures since people who want alternative app store will choose android smartphone.

[@korakys]

I think it's telling that Huawei's 5nm chips are so restricted in number. Pushing the limits of older DUV tech is not so difficult, it's that the yields go down when you do so it becomes less profitable. Combined with increasing optimisations (even more layers of multi-patterning) and they can probably squeeze out another few node shrinks. After that though they'll have to come up with some brand new technology if they want to compete with ASML's EUV machines.

[@doujinflip]

Right, it's not so much the ability to squeeze out smaller architectures as the profitability in making them. Sure you might get like 5 successes per wafer, but to scale up for the market it needs to be more like maximum 5 _defects_ per wafer.

[@lolocemoipopo7537]

That's what they intend to do, with ssmb technology.

[@migovas1483]

or they are getting them from somewhere else, under the table... on very limited quantitates.. because if their yield on the other ones was so low, these 'new' ones are practically not viable to produce, unless you want to just 'show them'.. which COULD be the case..

[@Rex-ww4cw]

Y'all said that when Huawei released it's mate 60 pro. Now it can manufacture so much of those chip that it overthrown Apple as the biggest mobile vendor in China.

[@lolocemoipopo7537]

@@Rex-ww4cw yes they also released a 5nm equivalent microchip for computers.

[@arinielsen2981]

I'm commenting this on Saturday but nonetheless I'm usually excited for these KZbin videos every Friday

[@minhajsixbyte]

EU's work is truely praiseworthy.

[@nicolaupoceiro7570]

The EU is a nightmare run by idiots. You must be outside the EU not to know that.

[@rahuravi5186]

Give well recommends jerard aka the completionist charity 😂

[@greendsnow]

wait... 7nm was told to be the peak they could achieve despite the sanctions... this means...

[@Tesnopesno]

these court cases are weird in sense that you can still pay off the other company to drop the case I think. isn't that the whole point what makes google lose this? it should be the actual law that is inspected instead and the process should never stop for payment.

[@teemos2732]

Yes please - ActivityPub video

[@TJ-vh2ps]

I’ll take “small batch of specialized chips” for $1000

[@user-lr8zd6yl8m]

Once Huawei used all of its 5mn chip inventory made from TSMc at the backend of 2024,they will use 5nm chip from SMIC.

[@godofwar8262]

Revanced active

[@kurakuson]

"Apple didn't get caught redhanded"

[@cfwin1776]

Necessity is the mother of invention. 🙂

[@magfal]

4:32 the performance looks like it's worse than the previous gen like for like. The review samples have all been shipping with very fast memory.

[@piyushgolait]

I think I will look more into what the EU's all about. All their regulations are pretty decent and thoughtful.

[@dupajasio4801]

How can charitable org afford adds on KZbin? And match your donation? I know, off topic, just curious.

[@TheFridayCheckout]

Givewell is a charity that you can choose to support with money directly. Those funds go towards givewell itself, which they use to do promotion, pay their research staff, etc. Then the donations I talk about here are separate. Givewell just connects you to an actual third party charity without taking a cut.

[@keking2178]

sanction somehow motivates people 😂🎉

[@berrymckockiner5883]

Yes please di a federation vidoe

[@khairul-kun-0939]

Rumors has it that Huawei p70 will also have 5 nm chip

[@NAW32Nicoisme]

Let's see😊

[@johnnysinssexmaster]

I am new here. I thought it was Vsauce.

[@issonyt]

Make the video about how mastodon works

[@cesarlinares8149]

Explain Mastodon pleaaase!!!!

[@mma93067]

Given that technology usually grows exponentially, even if it’s a tiny batch, as long as it’s real, they’ll be mass producing in less than half a decade

[@jimhalpert9421]

If it's real. This is a very big "if"!

[@soheiladam7510]

​@@jimhalpert9421 what do you mean if?!!🤦 it's a real thing that's already in the market. no ifs no buts.

[@ThePowerLover]

​@@soheiladam7510 Show me any technical analysis by a third party, there is not even one from Huawei.

[@jimhalpert9421]

@@soheiladam7510 It's good practice not to believe everything that is self-reported out of China. 9 out of 10 times it is widely exaggerated or not true at all. What they claim to be 5 nm could easily be equivalent to TSMC 7 nm or even worse. No independent party has investigated this chip yet. China just doesn't have EUV machines and without them there currently is no way to manufacture 5 nm equivalent chips. That's just physics. And this is a hot propaganda topic, so there is a high incentive for China to claim 5 nm even if they don't have it.

[@jallen1227]

Is mass producing at low yields really mass producing ? Making a million to make 100 good chips, sure .....

[@wahchili6077]

Huawei employee working 996 style work from top to button. They are working for free world.

[@Odia_bhaina]

Activity hub video please

[@SSS-sz8mg]

I don't get this story with google, Why? Well, as far as I remember on Android the user always have had option to install apps out of official store, the second option which I appreciate is access through developer settings to root access, NFC and so on. Not sure about statistics but on high-end sales Apple indeed has a monopoly, in addition to that Apple's users still don't have access to non of what Android users have access to, the best evidence was a lawsuit against Apple because they didn't allow banking apps to have access to NFC, again for some reason nobody speaks out about that.

[@MILABRRA]

2024 GONNA BE GREAT REGARDING TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES

[@chankaan888]

China is developing domestic EUV lithography machines and has made significant progress.

[@Flipflopflopper]

It hasn’t

[@CO8848_2]

5nm is a manufacturing process, thus SMIC, not Huawei

[@nicolaupoceiro7570]

Huawei makes chips as well, in their own factories.

[@CO8848_2]

@@nicolaupoceiro7570 it's called SMIC, buddy, get some knowledge by reading my post.

[@viktorbaresic4180]

@@nicolaupoceiro7570 Yes, Hisilicon

[@mukamuka0]

5mn or any size list is just a marketing. At the end, it's all about performance. You can have 1nm chip that's run worst than 7nm because of the different in design architecture, implementation, transistors density and etc...

[@raute2687]

Those classifications for "unaccaptable" AI are super based. Long live the EU!

[@ZankitVeeEz]

Mediatek Dimensity 7200 is already 4nm.

[@jason-us8pc]

What happens to the rise and production of China Quantum chip - it easily beats all the so called upgrades?

[@NikolaosSkordilis]

4/5nm node dies (whatever that means in actual feature sizes and transistor densities...) can be fabbed with DUV instead of EUV lithography, but with diminishing returns, higher costs and a lower volume. Far more masks are needed, along with both immersion and quadruple or even quintuple patterning. Complexity would be higher, defects and LER (Line Edge Roughness) would be worse, and so yields per wafer would be lower. Which almost certainly means these are low volume / proof of concept (+ middle finger to US sanctions) dies. It is not sustainable but it makes for a good case of PR and "national perseverance". What I don't understand is in what way SMIC (a Chinese fab in mainland China) supposedly... "violated US sanctions" by selling those chips to Huawei (a Chinese company in mainland China), most if not all of which will be for domestic sales. The US sanctions are intended to "regulate" (a polite word for "prohibit") EUV tech sales to China from American companies and US-compliant companies globally. Their purpose is to delay China's semiconductor manufacturing progress so that the US can catch up, dressed up in the usual "national security concerns" language. But since when can the US also act as a policeman for the _internal market_ of China? Even if SMIC had developed EUV independently from ASML (good luck with cracking the insane optics without Zeiss...) why should they or Huawei be subject to US sanctions? I get how they're subject to _imports_ of EUV tech from abroad, but this is an entirely different case. On top of that this is not even an EUV chip. Despite being (nominally at least) a 5nm chip it was fabbed via old-fashioned DUV lithography. edit: I just read your pinned update. So these are old stocks from TSMC. Meaning SMIC can fab nodes up to 7nm at most. 7nm is a much saner limit for DUV. That's the node TSMC started testing EUV with, trying a first gen via DUV and a second slightly denser gen with 8 - 10 EUV layers, if I recall correctly.

[@XashA12Musk]

Video on activity Pub

[@Astern-ry2kp]

Yeet!!!!

[@GregJ22]

Meanwhile at Intel: 14nm for the 20th consecutive year.

[@PleaseGetReal]

You just cannot keep a good man down .

[@johnemordi7381]

I usually dance to the intro

[@Psychx_]

Huawei's "5nm" chips are only a marketing term. The chips are made using a relabled SMIC 7nm DUV process.

[@gwy611]

Kirin 9006C

[@mindwipe0074]

The sanctions against China is the epitome of necessity breeds innovation.

[@MnemonicCarrier]

What? But... How???

[@The_Funguseater]

And China just announced a 28nm lithography machine built on home sourced tech.

[@Freedom_from_imp]

My understanding is that it is the only country in the world that can do that without relying on supply chain from other countries.

[@xerzy]

for reference: 10^25 FLOPs is the same as 10 yottaFLOPs so that's 10000000000000 TFLOPs, about the same as having ~121094696052 RTX 4090s all running at once for a second... a hundred billion Gamer™ GPUs

[@mn_music_rave]

And they then die after given the power and the workload they are slapped with within that 1 second

[@skywz]

For a more useful number, that is equivalent to ~3840 RTX 4090s running nonstop for a year. That is entirely reasonable for some of the most powerful models and highest-budget companies.

[@xerzy]

@@skywz Indeed it is! Still, obviously you ain't just waiting a year in front of a screen for a model to pop out, and the scale of computing which some people can afford is just virtually unthinkable

[@skywz]

@@xerzy I'm assuming that the 25 (EDIT: 10) YFLOP figure is for training, for which an entire year is perfectly reasonable. It seems far too high for just inference.

[@xerzy]

@@skywz Yeah, it's for training, although honestly I don't believe for a second they dedicate a year to that and only that, which would leave out any chance at iterating (unless using even more GPUs in parallel, which would still be awkward). According to the paper " _Efficient Large-Scale Language Model Training on GPU Clusters Using Megatron-LM._ " I took from random redditors, it seems like something like GPT-3 could have been trained at ~140 TFLOPS per (say, A100) GPU in 32 days, so ~0.42 YFLOP in a month with "just" a thousand GPUs from 2020. A month, not a year. Which I find insane.

[@ChibiKeruchan]

sanction just made Chinese people to line up for race to 2nm chip. if you have been given a 1.2B potential customer / market why would you not invest on making one? US thinks if they sanction them they would be left behind and just cry in the corner. but what US did is making chip maker lost a 1.2B potential customer. and who will sell chips to these 1.2B customer? that's a huge market that will make anyone a billionaire, not only that... it's guaranteed market.