Evaluating SINAD - Why it's NOT important

[@WheezyTech]

By the time SINAD became self aware it had spread into millions of audiophiles all across the planet. Measurement day. The day the audio world was nearly destroyed by the tools they built to judge their gear. I should have realized our destiny was never to stop measurement day. It was merely to survive it.

[@fredrikbarthel4803]

🤣💗 Briljant!

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

this was too good for KZbin. it’s too good for what’s become of Twitter. it’s too good for the internet in its current form

[@GoldenSound]

Excellent video/article. I really hope that over time we can move toward actually looking FULLY at a product and it's performance/behaviour. As much as it'd be nice if we could, there just is no way we can rank audio products based on one single number and trying to do so is just going to end up with something which is either a little, or very misleading

[@allansh828]

we don’t even have a solid theory to calculate the width and depth of soundstage and the position and size of images. The math is not even there, let alone technology.

[@metal571]

GoldenSound is the most important new channel in the past year we've had in the headphone community

[@albertweedsteinthethuggeni7797]

@@metal571 and we await your return

[@joshuabrain9751]

Here he is, the best reviewer and audio KZbinr period!

[@kyron42]

@@allansh828 we have the technology to produce very accurate outside the head experience with headphones. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZ6pgH2IrrOclas

[@JulianKrause]

Thanks for the shoutout, this topic is not often talked about! Human perception is way more complex than we like to admit and there should definitely be more studies to find the correlation of tech specs and their subjective influence on audio quality. Dr. Earl Geddes talked with Erin about his efforts to create a metric which can be used to get more meaningful distortion specifications: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJ-oeIp8eqyjo9k Interesting stuff and I hope we see more of that in the future.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Hey! I know that guy! 😂

[@kyron42]

When are you going to start testing audio interfaces with tests that more accurately reflect subjective results.

[@kyron42]

@@ErinsAudioCorner very interesting discussion. I'll Have to watch your channel more often.

[@neocui]

I really want to see you discuss this live with Amir.

[@musicxxa6678]

insert popcorn eating m. jackson gif

[@mfgillia7606]

Actually the discussion going on now over at ASR between Amir and the Mad Economist is pretty entertaining. The latter is defending his position valiantly despite the abundance of personal animosity and negativity thrown his way.

[@musicxxa6678]

@@mfgillia7606 link me please. my popcorn is about to be ready. quick pls. what happened to a/b testing debate ? did amir gave money to charity ?

[@albertweedsteinthethuggeni7797]

Pointless. Talking to that fool is a waste of Andrew's time

[@mfgillia7606]

@@musicxxa6678 For some reason every time I mention the debate is on ASR's general discussion forum my replies have been removed.

[@Brandon-qs3jq]

Thank you Andrew and Mad Economist for putting in the research time and hard work to put out this video/article. You guys are awesome!

[@daretobe957]

Measurement doesn't tell you which one sounds better, it just reveals which brands are lying. If a manufacturer lies about their measurements, all of its marketing are nonsense.

[@ResolveReviews]

SINAD doesn't though - I think the A90 is a good case in point. If it had been scored with the ground loop issue you'd see a VERY different result and narrative surrounding it. And once again, as mentioned in the video, we're absolutely in favor of continuing to conduct and use measurements. This is NOT an anti-measurement position whatsoever. In short: Measurements good, SINAD bad.

[@eddiefreak746]

@@ResolveReviews I'm with you, I'm in the middle. Unfortunately, most people will miss your entire intro about measurements and make this video an anti-measurement thing. I agree the entire SINAD thing has gone too far but it's brought attention to all the marketing BS that is in our hobby. We need something better than "I have golden ears, so listen to what I say". I follow you because we have the same taste in how we want something to sound. I figured that out from watching many of your videos and how you tune/eq your headphones. My daughter and I are sensitive to high frequencies and can hear distortion and grain up where my son and wife don't hear it all. But just because they don't hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Measurements are good for checking that equipment is good. Why should I buy something where the manufacturer's design lowers the measured capabilities of the parts they are using? So if SINAD is not good what is good and can it be presented in a way that we can evaluate equipment? I don't get equipment for free so I can't test everything I would like to listen to.

[@ResolveReviews]

@@eddiefreak746 yes, we're currently working on an ABX box that will allow us to validate perceived differences (or invalidate them)

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Nice video. I’m not a fan of single numbers as a ranking system (in electronics or speakers) because context is key and unfortunately that context is often not understood, resulting in erroneous conclusions and sweeping generalizations. This video does a good job of explaining the factors that make up SINAD and illustrate why a single value *can* be misleading. Sub’d.

[@kvnngkronos]

I enjoy this type of videos as I (being a scientist who is also sort of a critical listener as well) find these topics fascinating. If I may add a rather tangentially related issue, I'd say that we actually need different measurements when trying to assess different audible characteristics, instead of trying to convey and present an idea. It may come as mere logic, but it is true: the way one sets an experiment, analyzes the data, and presents the results impacts what it is interpreted and understood; and sometimes one needs different experiments to measure different things. That is why I am confident that, in spite of its incredible information-conveying capabilities, we cannot expect that all audio-related qualities can be associated with frequency response graphs. We need other types of measurements or at least analyze the measurements in other ways for them to clearly display the information we are looking for. For example, how to estimate things like image precision or the wideness of the center image out of frequency response graphs? Probably we can't, but (excuse the oversimplification) if we design a series of test tracks with tones meant to be located at different places of the center image we can assess the aforementioned qualities, and like so with other audible qualities instead on relying only on frequency response graphs or SINAD, etc. For the time being, we can only trust our ears and headphone reviewers.

[@erics.4113]

@@nhennessy6434 again with the science that may not be complete. I demo different amps, same speakers, same setup otherwise and get a completely different sense of space or 'imaging'. I think the original poster is onto something. We may defend known ways of objectively measuring everything but the evidence for subjective experience seems to be stacking higher than the measurements provide answers for. Why not try tones in different stereo separation and measure the location that the different amp seems to place them? Are you confident that it wouldn't yield a different result or it's some abomination if it deviates from the expected? Maybe that deviation is a character that results in a very pleasing effect for some. I don't have a single answer. I just think the objectivists go a bit far thinking that the known measurements are in fact the only objective ones that truly matter. The subjectivists are saying, time and again, you guys are missing some key objective measurements. We HEAR them. .. or we are all just crazy. Also very possible

[@antonhelsgaun]

Your statement around 8:30 is completely false. I only listen to test tones, although on weekends I sometimes do square or sawtooth waves

[@harleyguy071]

As a high-end audio reviewer myself, I have concluded over my many years in this hobby that the only way we will get deep dives into distortion behaviors that tell us more than the standard THD spec is to measure it ourselves as reviewers. Your channel and Golden Sound do an excellent job of informing the public on the true performance of products while also explaining what these figures actually mean. THD has been touted for years as a good performance measure by manufacturers when it is the furthest thing from it. But as long as people keep using it as a purchasing decision, the manufacturers are in no hurry to change what measurements they publish

[@herrtrigger7220]

I am enlightened. I am also questioning my last 10 audio purchases since SINAD was a deciding factor. Great video.

[@olimphus26]

Now do a video that talks a bit more in-depth about the harman target and bust a bunch of myths people are talking about once and for all.

[@fclp67]

I think he's already done a video on the Harman Target

[@ConsecDesign]

i'd love to see that too, but unfortunately people who ascribe to audiophile myths are gonna keep on keeping on.

[@JTB--]

I'd still like to think that SINBAD the comedian is still Important at least

[@dasninjastix]

'Son of a Preacher Man' is still one my favorite comedy specials

[@WMalven]

Thank you very much for this instructive video. I was close to be seduced by the SINAD obsession and thus almost bought a new DAC even though I already have a completely adequate built in DAC in my Peachtree Nova300 as well as having available a 10 year-old NAC M51 DAC if I want a separate...all because of those two units rating on ASR's website. Your common sense explanation with the scientific documentation is a real valuable contribution to the discussion...again, Thanks.

[@islaymmm]

Great video and article. Keep up the good work!

[@nmnate]

I think the ASR rankings have gotten a little out of hand. It feels like folks just look at their SNR or SINAD charts and call it a day. 'Oh, this one's the best'. However, some things like jitter and how filters are implemented are just as important (perhaps more). I don't think all good measuring gear sounds decent (or rather maybe not all the necessary things are measured...I think figuring out transient response is super subjective even with measurements). But, I do think some excellent measuring gear can really sound good. Basically, you need to make sure the engineering was done well, in addition to the more subjective design parameters that might lend different flavors to the sound.

[@DBSTH0R]

The only thing more interesting than this video is the follow up discussion about this video on ASR forums. :D

[@guybkt]

Not sure I'd describe the discussion to come as interesting... It'll be something to behold I'm sure

[@DBSTH0R]

@@guybkt It'll be? It already is. :) Btw. half of my post was sarcasm, not sure if obvious or not...

[@guybkt]

@@DBSTH0R OH it was, apparently my attempt to play into it wasn't so clear :D

[@DBSTH0R]

@@guybkt Glad we understand each other now. :D

[@fullyverified7491]

Wouldn't weighted distortion be a (partial) solution to this problem?

[@blainelacross5311]

Yes, measures of weighting have been proposed at least since Shorter in 1950 (first order highpass, I believe), going through to the more nuanced, psychoacoustically influenced weightings such as PEAQ and GedLee. We'll hopefully get to dedicate some time to that topic in the future.

[@fullyverified7491]

@@blainelacross5311 I read a paper a while ago which showed a much stronger coorelqtion between listener preferences and weighted thd+n than just thd+n, so it seems some work has been done here

[@ericharrelson2045]

Outstanding demonstration, Thanks.

[@Yarnooee]

but then, how am i to choose all those dacs?

[@Untilitpases]

To combat the masking effect, a simple formula may be used where distortion is dynamically evaluated based on distance from the origin test tone and the difference between the respective loudness compared to volume, it would go something like this e.g. 1khz-5khz (Δ of whatever nr. of tones really) x ΔDb (tone's db at 1khz vs 5khz) / volume (because the lower the volume, the more explicit the distortion.) That ought to give one a better representation of the perceived distortion as well as the amps' behavior across volume.

[@user-vg4fd4gb1o]

Thanks for providing good, clear, understandable thinking. I’ve followed and learned about audio since the early 60’s, was a believer in the testing philosophy of the late Julian Hirsch of High Fidelity magazine, and I’ve never before encountered the term SINAD. I miss the FTC’s old strict standards for specifying amplifier power, with rated RMS watts per channel, measured with all channels driven, at .01% or less THD, from 20-20,000 hz + or - 3 db. Certainly more meaningful distortion factors could be added today, but it’s far more meaningful than a home theater receiver rated at 100 watts per channel, with 1 channel driven, 80-12,000 hz, @ 10% THD, which we see all too often now.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

It'll do 100 W/c without _too much_ clipping (if one is sufficiently generous in defining too much).

[@Grooverski]

Looking forward to your DCA Stealth impressions. As pricey as they’re, Stealths could be a game changer for those who can afford it.

[@Grooverski]

@@GBR9794 Couldn’t care less about ASR.

[@SmashKuro]

@@GBR9794 That's why Mariusz said he is waiting for Andrews impression. I saw the Head-Fi review and Amirs review and it sounds really interesting but I would only ever buy it if Andrew or someone like DMS reviews it properly.

[@Grooverski]

@@GBR9794 I don’t participate in that cult. I don’t lurk nor do I dare to contribute to it. I am strictly interested in a subjective interpretation of technologies implemented in this particular case and how it translates to overall sound reproduction? Another aspect that I am interested in is, comfort (something that DCA does very well) and possibility of overcoming typical closed-back headphones issues. Since, these are sort of a cost no object “Mount Everest” type of a HP, I am interested to see if they deserve their astronomical asking price?

[@Grooverski]

@@SmashKuro Pretty much. Fact that my taste in music and preferred, sound signature preferences somewhat overlap with Andrew’s, doesn’t hurt. In fact, his reviews helped me with two of my favorite headphones purchases. And those reviews were very close interpretation to what I am hearing/experiencing. So yeah, I would love to see Andrew take his time and break this new DCA flagship apart and see if hype is justified.

[@chamade166]

@@GBR9794 Yeah let’s believe reviewers who most of them have sponsor or business relationships with audio companies, over a high profile engineer/audiophile with a home audio system that costs more than most people’s cars. 🤣

[@masterxyr]

Why no links to the album?

[@geekosa63]

So if SINAD is not important, which measurement is ?

[@adamyelle4901]

So long as it's out of the range of audibility it doesn't seem to matter to me if it's at 90 or 120. One thing I will say though is that products that score very high in the department have incredibly black background and have a very "clean" sound. If that's something someone is looking for it seems that could be an indicator of that.

[@rayliam80]

Measurements are fine to geek out over, to know you’re getting a well engineered product. But for it to end any discussion of subjectivity and experience. But given that so many audio products now are being bought without trying them out first, people want some kind of metric to aid in their confirmation before purchasing the product. You can only return so much on Amazon. I don’t blame anyone in using data provided by the likes of AMSR and others, but I also don’t trust anyone who is gate-keeping either. They’re usually assholes, frankly.

[@BruceCross]

Great info. Jay's iyagi referred to your video in "Selling ALL My Chinese HiFi DACs."

[@twitchbook-1]

Nothing better than have fun with audio, cheers

[@EvanZamir]

Is there anything that can be measured that correlates with perception of audio differences between different pieces of equipment? Or is it all simply placebo? Or do different people simply prefer different types of distortion in their audio? Do we even know that "perfectly" replicated audio would be universally preferred?

[@BestKiteboardingOfficial]

Nope. No measured single metric correlates with blind preference, people like all sorts of odd crap.

[@CptMark]

My advice is, investigate SoundExpert's df metric. I think it's currently the most interesting and encompassing method to measure/compare performance of DACs/amps.

[@jaakanshorter]

You just pointed something about loudness vs distortion that got me thinking. There are some ultra high-end reviewers on here that listen to music at what I personally think is way too high which would mask lower level distortion. I listen at normal and much lower levels than they do. I have STAX from 40 years ago and from a few years ago along with my Magnepans. So noise of a device would matter more to me because of my listening level vs someone who listens at a much higher level.

[@telebiopic]

Why are do many people taking about Amir? Is this some battle, am I missing something? Please share link for Amir video!

[@g0fvt]

SINAD is still widely used in two way radio, but typically at the limits of a receiver sensitivity. Generally only looking for 12dB SINAD. A very different scene...

[@Android-nv7gu]

Excellent video. But now what should a buyer look at if SINAD is meaningless? Is there such a metric? For instance, I have a Schiit stack. But how do I know which product is an upgrade to that stack before buying it?

[@garyluciani370]

If the schitt stack works well with your headphones, why would you need an upgrade?

[@Android-nv7gu]

@@garyluciani370 In pursuit of improvements, no? Why else buy an expensive DAC or amp? Trying to understand what would make good gear beyond SINAD.

[@CptMark]

SoundExpert's df metric

[@yelnatsch517]

Not only are higher order harmonics more audible, supposedly odd harmonics are worse than even order harmonics. While higher order harmonics may sound worse, when will higher order harmonics be higher than lower order harmonics? If we can guarantee second and third order harmonics to stay below a certain threshold, shouldn't that be enough to guarantee that all other harmonic distortions be sufficiently low?

[@johnwright8814]

If you had listened to the average stereo that was available in the 1970's, then you would appreciate the progress that had been made in the overall fidelity of even inexpensive equipment.

[@chefsteve8381]

I enjoy both the L30 and the little dot mk2, does this mean i should fight myself ?

[@fclp67]

No it just means those measurements mean nothing

[@chefsteve8381]

@@fclp67 thanks for a minute there i thought i would do self harm. LOL,

[@brandonandrews4009]

I consider myself an "objective" audiophile but agree with this video. NWAVGuy's transparency standard was meant to be extreme beyond reproach, but the ODAC would be considered mediocre in Amir's silly ranking.

[@dominikalbers6983]

Thanks 4 this Video. It removes some question marks! And i think you have the same glasses frame from Starck, love them!lightweight an comfee!

[@clarablack1101]

I always liked products that i could afford, covered the functions i wanted , i like to look at and sounded good in my opinion. I ve a lot of different sounds at home and my ears always adjust and few product fatigue nowadays...

[@teqai]

In my experience summary scores that people make up on their own tend to be faulty in one way or another. If you want a meaningful and robust summary score, it needs to be mathematically derived, which is very hard to do. Missing that, the next best thing to do is to not compute a summary score.

[@BestKiteboardingOfficial]

Anyone who thinks a single measurement defines the sound of a piece of gear is wrong. All it does is state how it performs in a single test. All it tells you is grossly how faithful it is to the source. If all you want is high fidelity and personal opinion doesn't come into your choices then measurement is the way to be lead. The raw number gives you a guide, nothing more, you need to see the full frequency sweep, which any decent review gives. No one is stating a single metric captures performance.

[@ConsecDesign]

Imagine giving a fuck about THD when you're listening to Melt Banana...

[@WheezyTech]

Underrated comment XD

[@seanb3303]

To get high SINAD you need high feedback. High feedback destroys the sound but improves the measurements. This is why discrete circuits tend to sound better than Op amps (high feedback), while measuring worse.

[@dick66482209]

Most discrete amps are also feedback, is just op amp but built with discrete transitors

[@seanb3303]

@@dick66482209 of course the issue is the amount of feedback used. This is why amp design is also an art and not just a SINAD measurement

[@seanb3303]

@@RaveyDavey it’s an opinion issue. It definitely changes the sound.

[@TheSilverWolf]

Measurements are useful just like tools but when it comes to subjective matters it only tells a small part of a whole story, You can weight and measure a steak but to know if your going to like how it tastes or how it differs in taste to the other cut of meat you need to use the most sophisticated, advanced, flawed and individually personalized testing equipment ever made... YOURSELF, you need to eat it and use your own subjective testing system.... Me I love gravy in my ears (lol, rich warm fluid sound)

[@RandomShites]

But.... But...... What will happen to audio science and reviews?! Someone has to hype those numbers, amiright?

[@aldphillip2003]

Review the Stealth. I'm itching to spend money.

[@ResolveReviews]

We will. It's on the way - we didn't get it in advance, and shipping stuff to Canada can sometimes take a little longer as well.

[@Heldermaior]

It's like this, to our ears, 10 dB more feels about twice the loudness. Physically speaking, 3dB doubles the loudness. Our ear just hears things differently. SINAD is a measurement. It has its uses but it is not the end all be all. Listen to things that you like is my advice.

[@sonicsaviouryouwillnotgetm6678]

I don't see how a device that has a SINAD of 120dB „might add things to your music“ (I assume audible is meant) as claimed to the end of the video. That seems to be a bogus statement. I understand that a bad measuring device can still sound pleasing due to masking (or wanted distortion), but in essence you are lucky that this happens and it might even be dependent on the source material and headphones used. A well measuring device with a high sinad number on the other hand will add things, but the artefacts are KNOWN to be inaudible. SINAD is just an upper bound, nothing more. The point is this. If high-end companies charge thousands and claim to be higher fidelity, but score low on measurments compared to a few-hundred dollar well engineered products, then the claim of higher fidelity by definition is wrong and that's a problem. Sure, the cases might be nicer and some might have longer life time but then the claims should not be about higher fidelity. Also, amplifier design is not rocket science. A lot is known about it nowadays so I expect companies to be competent enough to design their products on a technically competent level, especially if the products are expensive.

[@villageroma]

Hummm… that’s with test tone where no feeling is involved. Your theory may apply only between class A amplification. The distortion introduced by a class A/B amplification playing music is all another matter. That distortion involves timing. Not everyone can tell apart a class A amp other class. But for the few who can there is no other option than class A amp.

[@zzz2496]

To me, higher SINAD is MUCH SAFER option if I need to research for stuff WITHOUT any chance of audition. If I have to choose I'd rather choose a unit with 120dB SINAD over 60dB SINAD any day. As Julian Krause said, "...if you can, always have a look at the harmonic content that the distortion comprised of to get a better feeling whether this is going to be audible or not...", simply put, you need to look at the WHOLE PICTURE for analyzing audio gear, not just one aspect such as THD number, or SINAD number. That is analogous to making an opinion about an elephant, but you only look at how much it weigh, it does not tell the other stories such as it's strength, it's trunk, it's huge ears, how it sounds, etc. Most measurements only catches a GLIMPSE of what an audio gear sounds like, we need MORE data to be able to deduct a sensible opinion ~ that is if we can understand what the heck those data even means...

[@kevintomb]

The problem I see, over at ASR they will take one with a rating of 80 and say it must sound like crap compared to one with a rating of 100. They use SINAD as some judgement of it being crap or great, while never listening to the device or seeing if the SINAD is actually audible in actual listening. It is most all by the numbers.

[@heyguyslolGAMING]

Dude you should totally cos-play as Post Malone when doing these vids. I think you could totally pull it off very well.

[@AF-rd2vf]

All dude needs are the tattoos.

[@heyguyslolGAMING]

@@AF-rd2vf and not take a shower for at least a month.

[@lupoal4113]

Sinad is important only for Amir... that is probably the deafest person on earth... but earns a lot of money thanks to the mountain of nonsense that he publishes in his forum. Thanks a lot for this video!

[@DEALUX]

Good explanation but if you look at the high scoring Chinese DACs and amps on ASR, when they approach something like 120 SINAD, the actual distortion measurements show ZERO audible distortion and noise. Especially the TOPPING stuff, they don't have any audible high order harmonic distortion either. So while yes, the SINAD score is a simplified metric, when you look at the details you can't really argue that these cheaper amps and DACs are anything but state of the art products from a signal transparency point of view. If you buy one of these high scoring products what you essentially buy is the peace of mind that somewhere somehow your source gear could produce unwanted artifacts.

[@TheHEADPHONEShow]

There is definitely an element of confidence to that, especially if that's a priority.

[@blainelacross5311]

Realistically, anyone buying an amplifier with the distortion performance of an original generation Schiit Magni can have peace of mind that any distortion products it produces will be inaudible. If it'd make things more comfortable, an FFT with a smaller number of bins could be used, so that the noise floor would cover the harmonics (as it does at a lower level with the settings Amir commonly uses). Distortion in headphone amplifiers ranges from "very low" to "incredibly low" in realistic usage, particularly given how small the outputs that normal headphone listening requires are compared to the vast power of modern headamps.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

i miss Sinad O’Connor 😢

[@jmarz2600]

Geddy Lee wrote a scientific paper? 7:48

[@TheHEADPHONEShow]

Geddes and Lee

[@natevirtual]

I'd like to hear Amir's thoughts on this... Just joking, very informative video!!!!!!

[@kyron42]

An amplifier with a SINAD of 110 or 120 is not going to make any difference to your music unless you're trying to blow your ears out.

[@dopamining7621]

"canonical inertia" ..... nice.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Right? I had to think about that one for a second. LOL

[@regisvoiclair]

From your experience, what good headphone amp in Class A do you recommand to drive correctly a HIFIMAN Arya with a budget in the range 500$ - 800$ ? Thanks.

[@fclp67]

Why would you spend this much when an Asgard 3 is about all you need and then you can spend more on headphones or just save money or buy an IEM or go on a date or whatever. Also class A means nothing for sound quality it's just about its electronic structure and nothing else.

[@pascaljean2333]

Singxer SA-1 is beautiful with arya

[@mariodrv]

@@pascaljean2333 This.

[@nothingelse1520]

I am listening to my Arya on the SMSL SP200, very clean, a lot of power.

[@mrcrapsalot6043]

Going full Class A isn't all that necessary, but regardless, iHA-6/Jot 2/SA-1 are all great amps to pair with Arya

[@allansh828]

if we know how to measure every meaningful thing of an audio equipment, we should have the technology to create the perfect sound system already.

[@Jason75913]

pfffft, but we don't indeed, as you imply

[@bushmaster1740]

Show me the amp that sounds great but tests poorly.

[@rururore]

i really hate it when you face slightly to the left and since your hat is worn croocked when you turn it seems centered

[@jamescruz8678]

ASR in shambles

[@jamescruz8678]

@@GBR9794 I don't agree with ASR's subjective opinions (especially on the headphone side) as well as his arrogance. But I can't deny that his measurements are invaluable. Until GoldenSound came along, there wasn't another place to pore through as many amp and DAC measurements available for the masses as he's amassed. If only he wasn't an ass, he'd be celebrated for what he's done.

[@justina9914]

@@r423fplip goodbye Dave. Back t0 ASR

[@OscarSanchez-uo5yz]

All that matters is PRAT ;)

[@yukio32]

after reading many reviews from amir, i reached the conclusion that his hearing was damaged or has weaken so much he can't hear minute difference between gear. that's why he's so dogmatic and dependent on measurements, sometimes to the extend of not listen to the gear he was testing!

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

Objectivists are correct in asserting that anything that can be heard can be measured, where dogmatic objectivists err is in assuming _without any proof whatsoever_ that the measurements they have made are the _only_ important ones. Audio reviews tend to rely on the same handful of measurements: those that can be performed with (relatively) affordable and easily available equipment. Measurements that require weeks of testing on multi-million dollar equipment followed by a few days of statistical analysis on a super computer? Obviously, not going to happen in a review. The one thing I take away from the -debate- -argument- holy war between objectivist and subjectivist audiophiles is that we don't yet know everything we should be measuring. This is where subjective reviews are valuable - they are the best (only) thing we have to fill the gaps in our knowledge of audio measurement.

[@TheHEADPHONEShow]

This is kind of how I see it yeah.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

Love this video. Anything to make ASR philistines uncomfortable is a good thing.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

@@r423fplip being unpleasant to unpleasant people doesnt inherently make you an unpleasant person. Thats a fallacy. These people like to shut down conversation with "objectivism", so showing them some humility is a good thing.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

@@r423fplip love how you dont respond either. Part of being a "nice person" is not being a coward.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

@@nhennessy6434 when they are objectively wrong, yes. 😊

[@shimofo1]

Oh boy. Here come #QAmir and his happy band of acolytes...

[@aceofspades6667]

ASR Amir crew... come at me bros!

[@johansallqvist6027]

How about a SnakeOil-index..

[@FanatNsk54]

LoL SINAD don't matter, THD don't matter, give me THD vs frequency or IMD sweep tone and I tell who you are.

[@0Wayland]

Trust your own ears, people!

[@olimphus26]

**T R I G G E R E D **

[@emuclone154]

I would argue the Sinad does matter. It should be at -115db for full inaudibility and sinad is only one part of a full evaluation. There is imd, jitter, dynamic range, thd+n ratio, etc to be taken into account. All of these together create an accurate representation of a device.

[@fclp67]

Genuinely nothing but frequency response actually correspond to anything

[@blainelacross5311]

Where are you getting the -115dB number for "full inaudibility" from? In the linked citations, IMD is found to be equally uncorrelated with subjectively audible problems to THD, and of course THD+N ratio is simply SINAD expressed as the ratio of spuria to signal rather than signal to spuria.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

how you enjoy something subjectivity is the only thing that matters. This is a hobby, lets keep it that way.

[@emuclone154]

@@GBR9794 not no noise, just under the audible threshold.

[@古明地恋-s9c]

@@fclp67 So squiggly lines is the be all and end all? Interesting

[@eliyahu3013]

thats not how u say sinad but ok

[@TheHEADPHONEShow]

It is actually not pronounced any way. It's an acronym that should technically be SNAD, the 'i' is just from 'signal'. So I say it like that.

[@Emrah2908]

Dude don’t post meaningless comments.