The Winds of Winter: Vale Preview Chapter (mega spoilers)

Ashaya & Aziz devour this chapter as if it were a 12 foot tall lemon cake threatened by a pimply gingerlad.
Rhaenys_Targaryen: asoiaf.westeros...
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[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

What is that map behind you guys in the back? the one with dorne separated into pieces. Would love to buy one.

[@HistoryofWesteros]

RedTeamReview It's a 9 player board game map that we printed ourselves, created by the great West2Productions. We take it off our wall and play on it, so the expense was worth it, but it was a bit costly to have it printed. You can download the file here: www.west2productions.com/Gamers/AGOT9/

[@kevinmoore4237]

Hats off to you guys for this one - you've unearthed a truly tremendous amount of great information from this relatively short and - on the surface - uneventful chapter. This is definitely some of your very best work. You should do one of these for every chapter in asoiaf (jajajaja). Many thanks from the peanut gallery.

[@atavismvision]

Great stuff as always though, I've been reading and rereading the books alongside your podcasts for awhile to help make sense of the books or flesh them out.

[@GardenGnome118118]

i love the episodes with just the both of you especially when i'm interested in the topic

[@wizz-the-smith4881]

First off, great analysis as always ! And thanks for the shout out, I appreciate your credit towards my thinking, it was a little speculative. I will hold onto this thought in the hope it comes to fruition in some way. :) I was aware that the 'family' members were being handed these gifts, and not the competitors, but that still raised concerns for me. [ looking to disgrace a family - frame someone ?] But...... good point that the shear amount of these daggers would be neutralising any chance of this happening. Perhaps something to keep that infamous Asoiaf 'one' eye on. ;) There's also the 'hostages' LF already has, in the sons of Lords Lynderly and Grafton, just to add to any he inherits through knights gaining Wings at the Tourney. And also, Houses Waxley and Templeton were at Lyonel's wedding, everyone else of note 'after' this wedding seems under LF's spell [ including buying Shadrich & co, seems he was a busy bee ?] these Houses are all at the GotM, what about Waxley + Templeton ? If nothing else, I suppose it shows how hard Petyr has been working, and adds two potential Houses to what he hopes is a play towards him creating some sort of Vale network in the long run ? I agree BillyPyke had some great points on the Alayne thread, I liked the point about the Merchants in particular, good work Billy. Also, LF is potentially well liked in Gulltown after his fruitful endeavours working there, before of course moving on to KL. Much to think about. :) Again, thanks for your opinions, enjoyed the video as always, keep up the good [ great ] work ! :)

[@billdavis2590]

Wizz-The- Smith Thanks.

[@akeelbrown7675]

About the documents in littlefingers room being strewn about. It was mentioned that the window was open so the wind is a possible cause, or someone may have come through the window.

[@phillosmaster393]

House Shett of Gulltown is up there with Aenys Frey for most awesome name in ASOIAF. Too bad Aenys didn't live long enough to make a trip to House Shett. That would have been the most epic chapter ever.

[@HistoryofWesteros]

phillosmaster haha "Aenys Shett" should totally be a character.

[@LA-MJ]

Excellent episode as usual. I always struggle with the Vale plot myself due to copious number of characters (oh the irony) that seem to be just passing references and are hard to relate to.

[@sertorrhenclegane]

I know House Hoare is a family, but when you mentioned it I thought, "Gatehouse Ami?"

[@lindahoekstra3172]

Ashaya's hair is so gorgeous

[@user-un9ob6po5h]

Linda Hoekstra Right! I love the color.... so about to steal this and ombre it lol

[@yvescallaert7923]

Maybe, in reference to Harry and/or the tourney in general... there always might be a presence of somekind of 'Knight of the Laughing Mountain' to twarth the plans of Pertyr. That could give unforseen consequences and implications.

[@koft2009]

I just started listening to you guys, and I love it! The non spoiler podast is one of the best, and of course the spoiler one is as well. This was a great chapter about Alayne. It was smart to do it after the mess in the series, and see the real Sansa. I have always felt that she was the weakest of the Stark children and my least favorite character,(Jon is my #1). But I loved this chapter, and finally seeing her become her own person,and listening to you guys has definitely begun to change my perspective.

[@korky94]

I wonder if these tapestries will in a round about , and unintentional way help Gendry have a claim to the throne.. ? He already looks like a Renly clone

[@elenastoian2179]

Just discovered you. Great video. Some questions thought: If Sweetrobin is aware of Harry the Heir and if he and Littlefinger share certain qualities, could he not plan/pay someone to kill Harry kinda like Joffrey payed to have Bran killed... Also when I read the chapter I felt Myranda might pretend to like Alayne, but be very insulted by the fact that Harry will be engaged with a bastard girl, than her (she wanted him first, I believe she even points it out that Alayne stole him from her). I feel Myranda and Sweetrobin might ruin Littlefinger's plots. + I find it interesting that Ramsay's lover in the TV Series is called Myranda and she dies because of Sansa so... What do you think?

[@josephiyeke8946]

Thanks for all the info! A lot of points I hadn't considered

[@imanoobhunter]

Love this series guys, keep up the fantastic work!!

[@RedSoxFanatic4Life]

Other than Stannis and the Battle of Ice in the North-LOVE your three-part series on that, by the way-the Sansa/Littlefinger plot in the Vale is the one I’m most looking forward to. Winds of Winter MUST be published ASAP!

[@Warzipp]

Yes Ashaya lmao! Sansa would surely force Robin to sign the Lords Declarant on the basis of "Lemons for everyone!"

[@kerryalanp]

Good stuff guys. I love your show. I hate to be that KZbin Guy who corrects everyone's pronunciation and spelling, but I gotta be that guy. "Ser" is pronounced the same as our spelling: "Sir". Keep it up.

[@derekwalter4238]

wow

[@adamzlivinitup]

I like radio westeros idea of the tapestrys. That they smuggled joffs sword in it. being it's made from ice. if sansa had it it would be great

[@freerunner0682]

actually its made of valyrian steel

[@freerunner0682]

and sansa is not a fighter it would be better for arya

[@Wellcraines]

Great analysis. I found Ashaya's insights to be particularly lucid in this episode.

[@HistoryofWesteros]

Wellcraines thanks!

[@dvanbenn123]

Could it benefit Littlefinger to let Harry to get far enough into the tourney to look good? It seems like Littlefinger would want Harry respected by the lords of the Vale, an earlier exit might hurt that. Maybe just far enough to make him look like a creditable fighter?

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

I agree he doesn't want Harry to get angry over something or the Waynwoods he can't win though or be 1 of the winged knight's Robin won't like it eighter will Sansa she will know that ir was set up

[@MrScottie301]

After listening to your video I really can't imagine GRRM being able to finish this ( and every other story line) in just two books! He has so many scenarios that seems to be just starting. What you guys think?great videos!!

[@jsull81]

"The three Queens" Dan, Dave, & ? ........ the reason I suggest this is because the few lines directly before this are basically George lamenting his five-year Gap plan gone to shit

[@SirGeeSantos]

I was so excited for this!

[@AtticusFresh]

What role do you guys think Lothor Brune is gonna play is all this? I just noticed that when Sansa saves Ser Dontos the knight he's supposed to go against is Lothor Brune and there's some other passages he appears in too. He's just around too much for me to think that he's not a chekhov's gun type of character.

[@TheFiresloth]

He saved Sansa from Marillion and seems to like her. Maybe she'll make an ally out of him ? After all, since the Blackwater, we know he's probably one the most badass knight in Westeros.

[@Warzipp]

Hey Aziz, I have an idea for a monthly video topic. Could you do a video on the five prologues? Maybe at the end of the video form a hypothesis on who might be the point of view prologue character of TWOW? GRRM said Jeyne would be in the prologue but he didn't say she would be the POV.

[@HistoryofWesteros]

Warzipp We've had a few requests to cover the prologues, that is a good hint we should strongly consider it...

[@patrickoleary5340]

Westeros History vharamir six skins would be awesome

[@Marpaws]

+Westeros History (AA Podcast) Some thinks the character from the prologue of TWOW will be Forley Prester. awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Forley_Prester

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Ser Shadrich of the Chekov's Gun. You don't put a Mad Mouse on the Mantle in a Feast for Crows without it eventually going off in Winds of Winter. I think he's going to do extremely well in the tourney, perhaps even dominate the competition (which would reinforce the "summer knights" theme since Shadrich has actually seen combat), and if he wins he'd give it to Sansa. This would keep the readers questioning his intentions. Did he crown her because he 'desires' her for the bounty on her head? etc. I have little doubt he knows Alayne is Sansa.

[@hartjohnson2975]

Ohmygosh... a Sansa kidnapping... that is brilliant. I've had a long theory about an attempt to marry Sansa to (fake)Aegon--if Sansa ended up in Varys's hand, there is suddenly a route to that!

[@Nuclearcx]

Hart Johnson It would be madness for (f)Aegon to marry Sansa, or anyone else, instead of waiting for Daenerys. I doubt JonCon would allow it to happen anyhow.

[@hartjohnson2975]

Nuclearcx I think Dany will see him as an Usurper--a fraud. She was warned about the mummer's dragon. "Trust none of them." And since fAegon will get to the iron throne first, presumably, I don't think she will take kindly to that. He will be sitting on her chair.

[@remurraymd]

“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?” Ser Mad Mouse is back and what are the odds he kidnaps Alayne/Sansa for that Bag of Dragons he was promised in KL?

[@sergoldenhandthejust1495]

3 years later and still no tWOW :'(

[@the_amazing_jedi4734]

Lady Forlon is not a valyrian steel blade for gods sake, the andals brought the sword with them when they invaded westeros in the vale. The Order of the green hand, another channel, has a theorie on how a sword who looks like valyrian steel came in the hands of andals. Might be they got it in essos, but given that the rhoynish still existed when the andals invaded westeros and they had there empire between the valyrian outposts and andalos, where the andals lived, it is very unlikely.

[@billdavis2590]

History of Westeros podcast is brought to you by Dr. Pepper, Starbucks and cats.

[@HistoryofWesteros]

Billy Davis III Our top sponsors!

[@wvhoipolloi7035]

3 years ago. Wow. I don't think winds is ever coming out.

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

On the matter of Lyn Corbray and Lyonel i think Lf will just play his game and wait for who ever comes out on top thats the way he does things he will tell Lyn something and Lyonel the other turn them against each other he wants a loyal man but doesn't trust Lyn too tempered

[@korky94]

59:00 Jeyne W. ( who'll be in the Winds prologue? ) is Ser Brynden headed to the Vale ?

[@Felicia_ilana_Zaccaria]

i never got why they called Robert a usurper technically after the mad king and with Viserys fled and a child Robert would have been next in line for the throne anyways

[@johngrimes5852]

Huh. Maybe bc he killed Rhaegar and then Viserys would still be next and then Rhaegar and Elia's son. Doesn't matter their ages, they'd just need a regent until adulthood.

[@chinaskibloodline]

Obviously the Vale is loosely based on Wales, and if memory serves Henry Tudor landed in Wales at the end of the War of the Roses; one of the exiled Henry's did anyway ha.. so anyway I kind of always thought Dany might land in the Vale because of this

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

George likes Medieval Welsh history, Dorne is partly based off of Wales as well. You can really see the inspiration when it comes to the mountains and the border reeving along the Dornish Marches.

[@FromRussiaWithLuv007]

Do the Blackfyres have a better claim to the iron throne now that viserys is dead? According to Targaryen succession laws, any male candidate comes before a female one. But lets say Tyrion, Jon, or Hodor are secret Targaryens. Wouldn't they be illegitimate (unless proven otherwise) Since that Baratheons have Targaryen blood, does that mean they technically have a better right to rule? Or maybe even the Blackfyres now.

[@atavismvision]

Didn't Baelish also order Targaryen tapestries from Grand Maester Pycelle that Robert put away after he ascended? I have always flirted with the idea that Petyr has shifted his mid-long con given Daenerys's rise (or maybe started doing so years ago) and may be trying to position himself as the most appealing lord to treat with (maybe even marry?). He is Lord Paramount of the Trident, he's secured an alliance with the Tyrells to an extent, he is holding his own against the Lords in the Vale. So for all intents and purposes, he is Daenerys' best bet for winning a large ream of noble support excluding loyalists hiding in the woodwork--even if he himself doesn't have established ties outside of intrigue, blackmail, and his network. The Vale, the Riverlands, the Reach has notable loyalists who bent the knee (Tarly, Tyrell, etc) and the North pending the results of the TWOW storylines could see Starks returned to power--but which Stark. Would Sansa Stark fall in line with Baelish's plot if this was it? Rickon? Jon? What about after the WW threat is more apparent? Which it should be by the end of TWOW. What do you think of that? Could Littlefinger have decided given the rapidly decaying conditions in Westeros, he may have to settle for Dany and try to be Hand of the King or by royal decree Warden of the East or another Lord Paramountship? I have no idea what his endgame is. The IT is out of the question in most scenarios but I think mainly because we simply have no idea what he is thinking, he could maneuver himself there even if it was an extremely weakened realm he was left with. But then again, the Tourney is hard enough to predict as you guys said. What is short-term plans are proves to be even more impossible, let alone his endgame.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

I made a comment about Ser Shadrich a year ago - with the benefit of hindsight, I still think he's a Chekhov's gun. You don't put a mad mouse on the mantle unless it means something. (alliteration!) But what? At face value, he's an opportunistic sell-sword - but what if he's more important? Do we ever meet anyone else hunting for Sansa Stark on account of Varys? Maybe Varys is a red-herring - I don't buy the theory that Shadrich is Howland Reed - but the argument that he's a Crannogman is VERY compelling. In fact, the limited information we have on the Crannogmen and the neck almost explicitly points to this. We've yet to see the denizens of the Neck make their move - could this be it? I fucking hope so, dude. I'd hate for it to just turn into a sell-sword in over his head and getting caught like a mouse in a trap. One thing is for sure - there will be mice puns a plenty no matter what.

[@MrScottie301]

Question. Can you do a video from the perspective that Young Griff is a player in the game? He would be a great King. We all think he is not a player but GRRM loves to suprise us!

[@jamesaaron7211]

Just catching up...where did you get that Harry is considered a poor fighter?

[@oladiab9275]

James Aaron sane question 😂

[@tabithadias350]

what bolton squired with the redforts?

[@HistoryofWesteros]

+Tabitha Dias Roose's son Domeric, the one who he claims Ramsay poisoned. Roose's maester said it was natural causes...

[@mischahouston8044]

Thank you for your video. I have a theory/speculation written analysis for Sansa in The Winds Of Winter. It is called "Sansa and The Danger of Winds." Below is the website. Feel free to read and reply if you have something to comment on. I hope you both like it. petyrandsansa.freeforums.org/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-f22.html Start at DANGER #1!

[@leachateau2806]

More Sweetrobin voice please!

[@MegaMoose1989]

just in today according to vanity fair...Casting call for season 6.....Euron Greyjoy type , mid age pirate type....Tarley family, mid age strict nononsense accomplish military mind warrior, his sweet wife who loves all her children, a nice 20? sister and a 20? dumb jock type brother.....older priest who once was a warior/sandor,gravedigger storyline......trio of brothers for possible flashback age 7-12, possibly the stark bros....

[@LA-MJ]

MegaMoose1989 If you take away the family, that description could fit JonCon just as well :/ On the other hand why Septon Meribald but not Aeron Damphair as the priest?

[@MegaMoose1989]

minj4ever here is the actual casting call list.... Pirate: “Man in his 40s to late 50s. He’s ‘an infamous pirate who has terrorized seas all around the world. Cunning, ruthless, with a touch of madness.’ He’s a dangerous-looking man. A very good part this season.” Father: “Aged 50s to 60s, he’s one of the greatest soldiers in Westeros-a humorless martinet, severe and intimidating. He demands martial discipline in the field and in his home. It’s described as ‘a very good part’ for next year and that he’s ‘centrally involved’ in a protagonist’s storyline.” His Family: “Mother in her 50s. She’s a sweet, plump, and adoring mother, and has a soft spot for one of her children who benefits from her decency. Sister in her early 20s. She’s a kind, friendly and unpretentious woman. Brother in his early to mid-20s . Athletic, a good hunter, an excellent swordsman, manly, not particularly bright but the favourite child of the father.” Priest: “In his 40s or 50s. A gruff ex-soldier who found religion. Now a no-nonsense rural priest who ministers to the poor of the countryside. He’s salt-of-the-earth man who has weathered many battles.” Various: “Leading Actress in her early 40s, she’s an elegant actress with a traveling theatre company. Fun, charismatic, rum-drinking actress in the troupe. Priestess, mid-20s to early 30s. Any ethnicity-she’s beautiful, intense, and magnetic. Fierce Warrior, a tall man in 30s or 40s with a powerful physique. They’re looking for someone with ‘mixed ethnicity’ for the role.” A Trio of Boys: (1) “large boy, with an actor who is 10-12 but playing 7 or 8. He’s described as ‘a clever boy’ who seems too large for his age. He’s big and tall but not fat. ‘Characterful squat features’ are a plus for this part. It’s specified that this is a one-time appearance.” (2) “12 year old boy, with brown hair and blue eyes. He needs to use a Northern accent. He has scenes where he has to spar with a wooden sword. The length of the role isn’t specified.” (3) “7 year old boy with dark brown hair, a narrow face and green eyes. He also has a Northern accent. He also spars with the wooden sword, so it’s safe to assume it’s the same scene. This role is similarly open-ended, the description only stating that the character is being ‘introduced.’”

[@nichst100]

MegaMoose1989 I had hoped the death of Balon Greyjoy was delayed for the sake of the moot. Awesome. One of my faves. A kingsmoot, a kingsmoot. No king but from the kingsmoot! Very excited about the Citadel. May we meet Sarella, er, Alleras. Hoping Sam earns his chain long and strong and fast, so he can twist it around Randyll Tarly's bullneck and choke that horrible man to death.

[@DewkChronic]

Tyrion and Bronn were in the Vale and Tyrion mentioned, "the Eryie they say its impregnable." Bronn said, " Give me 10 good men and some climbing spikes and I'll pregnate the bitch." Tyrion could have Bronn save Sansa. IDK

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Ah! Ten of House Goodmen!

[@TtL2024]

Are you excited about the new braves stadium Sun trust park?

[@HistoryofWesteros]

***** yes and no. As a human being, not thrilled with how they got the deal done. As a Braves fan, I'm very optimistic about the stadium and the team's future, especially given how some of the young talents are already panning out.

[@sergoldenhandthejust1495]

Triple A is my hero!

[@kevinmoore4237]

How are you deducing that the Kettleblacks will face Ser Robert Strong?

[@HistoryofWesteros]

Kevin Moore Ser Kevan has Osmund and Osfryd imprisoned after Cersei confesses to sleeping with them. They will face Ser Robert if they claim innocence and get the Wall if they confess. They'll actually choose the Wall, I would think, hence our humor at the notion. I wonder if they'd plan to take the black and then desert.

[@kylez9094]

Westeros History but wouldn't the Qyborg be Cersei's champion? And wouldn't they have a trial against the faith (maybe the hound?)

[@LA-MJ]

patchface stargaryen That's a very good question: who is the ultimate judicial power in KL: the crown or the faith.

[@kylez9094]

I think its the faith in control of these trials. Cersei screwed herself over thinking she was clever and armed the faith so they would arrest Marg and she wouldn't have to do the heavy lifting. But they came around on her. Since the Kettleblacks are involved in all this I think the faith would try them as well

[@kevinmoore4237]

Westeros History All of this ties in with my latest obsession with how the "trial by combat" legal system works. We know that a royal can only choose a Kingsguard as champion - George has made a point of drilling that home. But what's the protocol by which the prosecution or "the state" selects ITS champion? I'm assuming that Mad Aerys' idea of "fire is my champion" was his tribute to Beavis and not part of the system that resulted in his justifiably forcible removal. So ... Cersei sent for The Mountain to prosecute Tyrion, and since Oberyn was permitted to defend him, I guess we consider that the brother of the queen is not technically a royal. But in any case, now we have Margaery and Cersei looking for Kingsguard champions in the books and both, plus Loras, seeking same in the show. Loras will obviously "represent himself" in his trial. But ... okay ... we're in book world now, so the question remains ... why Ser Robert for the prosecution? Isn't one of those Kettleblacks a Kingsguard as well? (I know ... I should know that ... at least HBO isn't paying me millions to butcher this thing) And now that we're back on the leading edge of the real (book) story, I could easily see you guys doing a full youtube episode on the ramifications of Kevan's death.

[@rogersampeur7033]

Since cersi was finished I think the 3 queens r dany, Margery, n myrcella maybe tommen is dead

[@irishrepub84]

winning

[@annastesia67]

anything on Daenerys Targaryen?

[@theongreyjoy1947]

aww aziz has very aquline nose:)

[@lydiaknowsnothing286]

This video auto played after Preston Jacob’s recent Alayne video. Hardly ever watch your channel but you guys should really patch it up because all GOT youtubers help each other, whether you like it or not ✌️❤️

[@HistoryofWesteros]

Carmine has helped us bury the hatchet and address a few miscommunications. I doubt we'll ever be friends but I don't hate the guy or anything.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Preston rubs me the wrong way. I can see through his shtick and besides I feel his more crackpot theories are just to drum up views and I view that as disingenuous, he's not a dumb guy so I have a hard time believing he accidentally overlooks facts that discredit his theories. Rather he doesn't care, and this all would be fine, guy can do what he pleases. However, his otherwise awesome analysis videos are ruined for me by him show-horning his crackpot theories into them and then making people take them as gospel, and taking his views as gospel. I'll say it again, disingenuous. As harsh as it seems, I feel he's little more than a hack. A hack with excellent production quality - but a hack all the same. I don't know how people don't see through it. It's a shame, if he didn't care so much about the NEW EXCITING THEORY (just don't research it yourself) he'd be terrific. It's just hard to take his videos seriously when I can pick more than half of them apart just off the top of my mind. I'm not an asoiaf encyclopedia, but I know enough to do that.

[@272arshan]

At last!

[@rock_ok]

no jon snow.... sad

[@tyrroo]

Thoughts at beginning of vid: W...t...f.. are they reading from one of the books? Performing a play? Why the hell aren't they looking at the camera? Should I even bother watching this, if the beginning is that terrible? [tbc]

[@DNotzz]

Oy -.-

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

It's not terrible at all, you're just a dumbass with delicate sensibilities. Don't even know why you commented besides just being an ass. An unwanted ass. Who obviously likes their own comments.