The BEST units you need for Skaven | Age of Sigmar 4 Tier list

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Make your own tier list here - tiermaker.com/create/effective-skaven-units-16042603?presentationMode=false

[@Wijkert]

Reusing the tier list for ranking the quality of the sculpts (or at least my favorites). Thank you for posting it here! I hope you keep doing that if you do more of these!

[@damianone4404]

Rob you’re a treasure for the Aos community❤

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Oh! Right in the feels!!

[@jimskaven5963]

Since 1993, a grey seer has always been a max level wizard. He needs his wizard 2 back.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I agree

[@legrandrouin]

We were robbed of our magic domination Skaven wizards always were some of the most powerful to exist

[@jimskaven5963]

@@legrandrouin just one symptom, but an accurate one. Our wizards liked to explode, but they were scary. Whoever wrote the Skaven for this edition clearly does not know what they are. I kind of want to give back my new plastic models to get my old rules back. Because you know they are not going to be repaired in fifth edition.

[@Theendisnear_ok]

@@jimskaven5963😂😂😂

[@koenvandiepen7651]

Yea a lvl 1 greyseer seems bs

[@yves-sketchpleb]

I rate this channel S tier, Rob is most effective

[@dafruk1]

Tldr - only doomwheels. No need to watch the video or respond.

[@MrFox1231]

With one Warlock, you can have 27 doom-flayers and 1 doomwheel! or 13 doomwheels, but 10 wasted points :' (

[@bg9994]

Thanks, bulk ordering now

[@pastaperson]

Best comment

[@Birdmanesp92]

Hear me out Skaven needs a Doom Wheel Hero so there can be a regiment of Doom wheels, Doom flayers l, and a HERO WHEEL

[@manuelsaavedra8081]

I feel like you're underselling the Arch Warlock, he is a wizard and a Skryre hero which is relevant for WLCs since they require a Skryre hero within combat range to use their overload ability. Minus 100 points for being a wizard makes it the cheapest enabler of a Skryre list and everything else is just icing on the cake.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Great point! Love that

[@tomsteer3485]

I’m excited to try out my 327 and a half Doomwheel army and can’t wait for GW to decide that all games should be 4324 points exactly

[@DreolicGaming]

The fun thing with th Clawlord is that they are only a 100 pts. So you take 2 of them and then you have enough points left over for 240 clanrats.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

That's a good point

[@LukeJohnson-uh6cs]

this video was significantly more informative than the warscroll reviews. I appreciate the insights and enjoy the analytics components much more. Something i would note is when comparing units is how they behave in game compared to raw data, for example your not getting 40 clanrats in combat with 3inch range, but its much more likely to get 20 stormvermin.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I'm glad you like it

[@jasonmclaughlin5647]

Might be my new favorite format for both tier lists (instead of a letter grade) and going through the warscrolls. Excellent content.

[@luvafridge]

Enjoyed the breakdown, I've found flooding the board with clan rats pretty effective so far. I find using two steps ahead to block my opponents battle tactics and just make it frustrating for them to score

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Just like I said!!

[@ssnakeshitful]

Unpopular opinion: I do think Lord Skreech has quite a good warscroll actually. He has one of the strongest combat profiles on the verminlords, he has an ability to shut off commands on enemy units and he has all of the clan keywords meaning he could receive all the buffs from Verminus and Pestilens battle formations (the Master Moulder could even heal him.) His Skryre buff is insane. Giving basically all your skryre shooting units a +1 to hit over multiple turns, because remember that Skreech his buffs last until the start of your next turn. Meaning your skryre units will still have the buff when using Covering Fire. The same goes for his bonus to cast, since off turn casting is a thing now. He can give himself an extra pip of rend in combat. I agree that he is overcosted right now but I would not write him off as an ineffective scroll.

[@peteaos]

As someone who once painted some skaven models sometime around 2003 I cannot agree with any of your assessments.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

That's all the info I need

[@MidgardSurvival]

Thanks for the great info Rob! This breakdown of the units was really helpful since my Skaven are built and ready on a shelf just waiting for more units. Let’s hope GW gets the new models out fast-quick!

[@R3C0NSPARTAN]

I tested some reinforced globadier units yesterday and I was pretty impressed with them. The ability to go hit 2 wound 2 is really nice and the D3s are a pretty nice rate. I consistently was dealing 6-8 damage, even when the defending unit rolled hot on saves. Surprisingly thanks to 2 wounds each, it was also able to survive a cavalry charge despite the 6+ save

[@thomaslomax737]

Great video, will really help me build out my ratment

[@JimCrimmins]

Everyone who disagrees with Robs tiers will be getting a free Skaventide box...

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

TRUE

[@HardyHeath]

I disagree wholeheartedly 😂

[@calebs9291]

Thanquol and Deceiver have been staples in most competitive lists. According to the math, Rattling guns are the most effective shooting unit per point. They are knocking off 20-30 wounds every time they shoot.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Some of these units literally aren't out and therefore imo the ways to play the army weren't available. I also cover events on the stats show so I know what's doing well and it's not Skaven atm

[@calebs9291]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams ohh I know Skaven aren’t doing well but the lists that do preform well (not 5-0 but well) are using those two as a base of the list. With the topic of Rattling Guns, many of us in the AoS Coach have used math hammer websites and it’s like overtuned rough. I played a game last night hand killed half a players team with one reinforced unit of rattling. I agree with everything you said though with all the other units! I just think those 3 could be higher!

[@biowiener7825]

i really want globadiers to be good but doesnt seem like they are, still going to play them since the models are so good. also going to play a verminous list which wont be meta but i love stormvermin and the new models are just amazing

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

You got this. Test it , try it and come back with feedback. That's the only way to learn

[@awesomemusicstudio]

I agree with you. It is a shame some of the nicer looking models are not that practical for gaming. What is more, is that many of them are actually a bit 'too' not-good or cost price too high, that even just to use them for fun isn't very fun. And I assume that eventually there will be point cost reductions on them .. but come on.. Skaven players already have waited for so so long. I'm with you .. I want to use Globadiers .. Vissik .. the Brood Terror .. some of my Assassin Heroes .. but it is just very hard to include any of them.

[@biowiener7825]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams thanks man. will do, im planning to try a list with 40 stormvermin, maybe krittok for the flavour but im unsure about that yet. vizzik for the death frenzy even though hes expensive and all the clanrats i have (just 80 but still). hopefully some globadiers and/or snipers, depending on points

[@biowiener7825]

@@awesomemusicstudio oh yes, especially the normal assassin never really did anything for me, despite me loving his model. it'd be great if he had some huge damage potential vs heroes. i also have a bell that i lvoe but the rules are always so janky that i dont even bother trying it, which is a real shame since its such a cool model. the clawlords got it the worst i think, he was really cool imo when he was giving out +1 attack but now he doesnt do anything which is sad since he could be a really cool hero buffing your stormvermin. i love multiple buffs on units but they go away from that sadly. points are also a struggle, everything is so expensive but i also have the same issue with my other armies. when im playing vs a friend i think we can agree to not run super meta on both sides so im sure im playing most of my models despite some of them being bad rulewise.

[@TheHonestWargamer]

​@biowiener7825 that's so many rats. I believe in you

[@ParsonsMAD]

Yes-Yes Juggs-Thing must point-score the greatest faction

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Tell me how I did

[@ParsonsMAD]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Great! The warp Seer as a sleeper hit I didn't see.

[@40KWill]

So interesting to compare Rob and Vince in their takes.

[@stevenwest1873]

This was what I was wondering as well. Vince completely disregarded Vizzik due to his point value while Rob thinks he is essential.

[@TheEase1]

My daily breakfast content. Perfect.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Perfect!

[@spatzilly]

Long breakfast though

[@Orkimedes-sc8ef]

The new Skaven sclupts are S tier. And that is something important too

[@kendrickwhite4868]

Hey Rob, you rock homie.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I appreciate this Everytime

[@spintable2167]

The only real thing I disagree with is that I think Thanquol and the Deceiver should swap places with Vissik. I love Vissik but his own spell is just not very good and the unit you cast it on will die before they get to fight first. Maybe a 6 man squad of storm fiends could do some work but that's a lot of points for a maybe. I think Tranquol and the Deceiver are better for the sole reason you said at the end of the video. You don't win by killing, you win by moving around and scoring objectives. And they do that better than Vissik. I also think ratlings are slightly better than scourges because of the points difference. They do roughly the same damage output so I like the cheaper unit. Loved the video overall. Keep up the great content.

[@Centurion_of_Terra]

I'm glad I still have you to tell me what's good and what's not, because the AoS app isn't going to do it anymore 😊

[@Vaul_0991]

Played with Vizzik a few times already, hes good but nowhere near the top of the list. 450pts is wildly overcosted and alot of your units you're death frenzying dont often survive a punch back to get the most out of attacking twice. He's shot off quite quickly / swingy damage. Plaguepack, clanrats, grey seer are the top picks imo.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Appreciate the feedback

[@grzmit5904]

Stormfiends are an incredible target for all the skaven prayers as well as death frenzy. No infantry or cavalry that stormfiends get a fight into will have enough damage to meaningfully hurt the stormfiends before they fight again. Fighting twice also allows for a second pile in, and with 3 inch combat range as well as your first pile in, you just get so much distance and potentially can pile in and fight a completely different unit with your second fight if you kill the first one.

[@MrFox1231]

Best 2k team. Verminlord fiesta, One of Vizzik, Skreech, Corruptor, Deciever and Warbringer for perfect 2000 points.

[@scottmills4164]

The Stormvermin and Clanrat debate, i feel like you are completely over looking the fact that Clanrats wound on 5's. That's terrible. Stormvermin have rend. So that's great that there are buffs available, but clanrats can't hurt anything with natural attacks. I'm not trying to say Stormvermin are definitely the better value, just that they can fight and hurt things. I totally get the volume of attacks, especially with crit mortal.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

if you go back and watch my review of the units i love stormvermin and i put them on the same tier as clanrats

[@Onk3lM0]

As a non Skaven player I look at Vizzek and scratch my head a bit. All his abilities seem to be designed around him being in combat. But neither does he deal damage nor is he tanky. Idk if the Skaven prayers are so strong as to justify bringing 450p for a unit that won't do anything besides praying. But the model is sick so I hope he's good enough to see some action!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I think he will see play

[@frankfurterberus]

Skaven prayers are *extremely* good on the kinds of Skaven units you commonly have a lot of.

[@frankfurterberus]

Honestly, the Crit-Mortal prayer alone is *WAY* worth it, and you'd be reliably getting it constantly. I actually disagree that Death Frenzy is all that good (as a prayer. As an "any phase" it's incredible for banking prayer points). Skaven are some of the worst units to fight twice, because they get *absolutely* lifted the second they get touched.

[@Midgar88]

Agreed. He's a liability, and he eats nearly a quarter of your points. Prayers are swingy and hes not gonna make your clan rats win a battle lol.

[@gitligaming3533]

Me and 138 of my mates in Australia went to buy the Skaventide box so we could get into AoS. Unfortunately, the GW manager said they’d just given their last 139 boxes to a group of tournament attendees who didn’t want them. I guess I’ll go and order my Lieutenant Titus model now, as I’m sure that came out at the same time as Space Marine 2.

[@TheHonestWargamer]

Wow

[@samo1757]

Amazing job ! Thanks (and cheese) to you

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Thank you too!

[@THATUKGUY2023]

Not me making sad skaven noises having just purchased Thanquol, 2 brood terrors and 2 hellpit abominations

[@willschreck88]

Can you do this for a couple other factions? Gloomspite as an example, perhaps Kruleboyz or Soulblight?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

On it

[@willschreck88]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Nice! It's neat to see, especially as a newer player, *why* things are more or less effective in the way that you explain.

[@stevenwest1873]

I’ve found in several lists I have built that Arch Warlock + plus the Grey Seer and Plague Pack can provide 2 spell casts, one prayer, while still activating Warp Lightning Cannon ability. Arch Warlock to me fits in the effective tier due to the points restrictions I feel at time trying to squeeze in multiple casting pieces.

[@MC-ku4zz]

About clawlord. I think his purpose is that he unnamed hero to wield hero traits and artifacts. He can wield that ammulet that gives chance to lessen armor of enemy on 3+ and can get that trait that hides him behind clanrats on 4+. And if he is not killed right away he will be hitting stronger nearly as hard as two rat ogrs. Not great but skavens don't have many unnamed heros that you would want too see in melle. Verminlords maybe but that would paint even bigger target on them withouth increasing survivability much.

[@myownaccount5058]

Say what you will about the Deceiver but I used his teleport in a tournament last weekend to yeet myself across the board and chase down a lady of vines to get her and win the game! 10/10 (I went 2-1 my first tournament of 4th edition hurray!)

[@aaravbasantani7774]

Making me want to play skaven now, I might have to ditch the stormcast. Personally i would put the deciever higher but thats js my experience of playing against it.

[@scottmills4164]

You skipped over that the Doomwheel can move even if in combat. It says in the designer notes. I don't know if that sways your opinion, but it is pretty interesting. I think easy to achieve a decent amount of mortals, but more importantly can blow past screen unit. If it survived of course.

[@Buiserd]

If only the clawlords would've kept the old Gnash-Gnaw on their Bones... Although Rob, I do feel like you ignore one thing with some of these fellas is that you need these heroes to build regiments. Which makes the engineer to me a better pick since you need a vehicle to get some Jezzails in, might bring him as a tax since he makes the reinforced unit slightly better. However I guess that way you don't get to bring them in general's regiment so that's a bit of a bummer.

[@TrebleAmp]

Can you do a gloomspite one after this pls! :)

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I can try

[@TrebleAmp]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams you’re the best! I don’t even collect skaven but loved this vid.. know your enemy I guess! Lol

[@Ouga]

Hello and nice video. Any chance you're planning on doing this for the other factions aswell? :)

[@windup13ird60]

I bought a Start Collecting Pestilens box a few years ago because I liked the vibe, but haven't opened it yet on account of seeing Pestilens get seemingly pushed farther and farther from the Skaven spotlight. Now with this current Battletome, where exactly does that box take me? Is it sort of like 3rd edition, where I can throw in a Furnace and reinforced Monks into a list of other clans for some good casual fun, or should I expect to need to go full Pestilens? And by doing so, I'd need to buy their Verminlord and about 80 other Plague Monks to try to maximize their D2-3 Mortal Wounds in their Battle formation?

[@gidthaillest]

I find it hilarious they made pestilens so viable in a way but literally gave them no new models lmao same with eshin.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

They are bad at this

[@MrFox1231]

Aslo they didn't give the Skittershank the same treatment as Plaguepack, yet continue to sell it in the store.

[@gidthaillest]

@@MrFox1231 yea dude those r the best models imo the plague pack and skittershanks

[@chief8012]

Hey quick question for anyone who would know. What is the stat sheet used for the ranged damage for the ranged options?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

It's from a stie called stats Hammer

[@awesomemusicstudio]

Thank you for this video, my favorite in a long time. My overall opinion is, that I am excited. I finally get to pick up the Skaven models tomorrow, and I feel like I've been waiting years. Probably because I've been waiting years. Your video made me feel better about Vizzik .. I had a misunderstanding with his rules before and I was kind of feeling down about it, but I feel good now. Of course the moulder is a bummer, as the models are nice, but just too impractical for the time being. Sure, in time the points will balance out - so am I too greedy to want these issues (that are obvious), sorted out now. NO.. because it's been years. What's the point of giving us a cool model, if we're just not going to use it? :P .. Still I'm excited for a lot. Wish there was more Eshin and some kind of cheap troop. Skaven feels like it should have a cheap troop, like giant rats or rat swarms .. or flying rats :) .. also a little sad that the Gnawbeast and Warpblaster are as ineffective as they are. They look nice, and I painted mine up well, and they seem fun ,,, but they suck. I used Warpblaster in the games I could find, it really does suck. The damage output is not worth the damage back to itself, so then why bother? It needs crit mortals when More-More is applied to make it worth returned damage. The main thing is, I think you may be overlooking some usefulness of the Arch-Warlock. First, ** he can bring in more than one Skryre into it's regiment. It is still a Wizard on top of the CP ability (skitterleap, manifestations, unbinds), and he has a shooting attack, he can use the coverfire ability on himself too. And he can be the general. In early game, he can hang back, summon manifestations, unbind, and add coverfire to Jezzails, and in late game he can be very effective jumping around and getting objectives and sniping wounded enemies in the opponents turn with magical intervention, and a free covering fire, possibly with +1 to hit and +1 to wound. He is survivable in the sense that I assume he would often be ignored by the opponent, while each round he will bring value and not a lot of units can claim that. He's a small .. angry rat.

[@metaldoritoes]

HPA being so far down is heartbreaking! It's fair considering, but they done murdered mah boi!

[@koenvandiepen7651]

I don't think the clawlords need looking at tbh. They are not great for the competative game at all. But they are good for path to glory. They are cheap to trow in at the start and it's a unit that can really grow during a campaign. Even gain a mount. That makes them fun in that setting.

[@WollePaints]

i really have to disagree with his ranking of the Arch Warlock - Skaven needs all the CP we can get, and saving one of them for up too 5, is quite a lot

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I can see that. I don't see Skaven as super cp hungry but maybe it's what you need with a consent plan to shoot a unit

[@WollePaints]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Magical Intervention, Covering Fire, All out Attack/Defens(shooting and Combat phase) Recursion for our Infantry units

[@frankfurterberus]

@@WollePaints Yeah, if you're running some of the really hammery/glass cannon melee stuff, you gotta AoA. Stormfiends and Rogors? Hitting on 4's? That CP to get to 3's is absolutely worth it. And our saves are very weak. You'll likely need that AoD at least once per round. And we get lifted *easy*, so the recursion point needs to still be around.

[@awesomemusicstudio]

I kind of agree. Seems like Skaven would always want Covering fire, and magical intervention, resurrection every round. But there are more reasons why we would need the Arch Warlock. I think running Skryre units is very popular, a Skryre hero makes that easier. Plus, it is still a wizard, for spells, banishments and unbinds. If the choice is 2 Grey Seer or Grey Seer and 1 Arch Warlock, maybe that extra CP is worth the difference. The Grey Seer doesn't get three dice during magical intervention anyways ..so using the Grey Seer for the more important spell each round .. having the Arch Warlock for free covering fire + the extra cast (manifestation) and unbind actually seems stronger than an extra unit. Plus, it is still a unit and can skitterleap(unlimited) itself if necessary for battletactics if needed. I think Rob did an amazing job with the Tier list and I learned a lot, but I will advocate for the Arch Warlock. From my point of view: 170 points, for a unit, that can save a cover fire CP each round, cast spells, and teleport itself anywhere on the board, as well as include multiple Skryre units in the army, and has a range attack. So he can use Covering fire himself. You could snipe something in your opponents turn, which is funny, and not even pay the CP for the shot.

[@614Amsterdam]

Rob, on the claw lord. I expect to see him taken a lot simply because he’s 100 pts, a free hero, and might be thrown into lists just because we have 100 pts leftover. Does that make him good? Probably not, but if he can do battle tactics by himself that’d be pretty neat

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I'd rather get 1 cp

[@LimmBurger]

A few things that irk me to no end with this book. 1 - How the hell is Boneripper going to have a worse shooting attack than a god damn regular Rat Ogor? Doesn't even shoot in combat if memory serves. 2 - Globadiers having more wounds than Stormvermin. What manner of warp crystals were they huffing when they made that decision? 3 - Brood Terror and Abomination being low tier. I want my Frankenstein rats to be better! 4 - Claw Lords...

[@TheJALT2]

Im late but throwing ratling warpbalster that low because it can’t be reinforced without mentioning that it gets 6d+3 with any skrye hero, which you’ll probably be running anyways because why would you take it if you’re not running a warpcog list? Also gets a free all out attack ability on any unit with 10 or more models

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I just dont think it scales and when you over charge it, it diesn

[@cloraformsgood5340]

Maybe you could go through the chaos factions packs, starting with s2d so we can compare when s2d comes out later this year.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

sure

[@tomb4610]

Clawlord paired with the right artifact is actually beneficial since hes only 100 pts.

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

I've wanted a Skaven army since 6th or 7th edition WHFB so this is neat. I have two Skaventide boxes and just ordered the plaguepack, Skittershanks pack, two doomwheels, another 20 rats, and 6 more jezzails. Next month when my credit card clears I'm getting couple of lightning guns if they're available. The weird part about units like stormvermin make me thing that clanrats need/will get nerfed to be less effective so that other units feel more useful by comparison. With 100 guys surging forward with crit mortals who can be rezzed, I'm wondering if my Aggradon/Saurus based Lizards could clear them fast enough.

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

I guess I'll order a couple of Doomflayers when they hit Amazon. And where the hell are gnawholes????

[@optimalgamestate]

More clan rats! Just cram as many clan rats as you can in.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

More than that

[@thebreadbaron2027]

I just play casually with friends but i feel doompilled now

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

good

[@Crescent216]

Globes i think are effective vs infantry at least. Just positioning as they are squish and low range🧐. Globadier anti infantry +1 rend. 3s to wound and hit. Can easily be a 2 with AOA And Skryre button/ HG. So we would end up with 2s to hit and wound rend 2 and d3 damage vs infantry.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I think they aren't it with 3" range but play with them and tell me I'm wrong

[@Crescent216]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams Hey man! I just played with the globes as 2 reinforced units vs stormcasts. I won the game. Positioning was extremely key. these dudes die easy. I put 2 gnawholes near 2 objectives and placed both globes within 6 inches of each gnawhole so they'd be able to teleport in an emergency/ go to a place with more enemies, I paired one of them with an arch warlock for that free shooting. on average these guys would kill 3.5 stormcasts on a unit of 5-9 and 6 on a unit of 10 assuming i'm on a 2+ 2+ which I hit every turn on one of them with an AoA and Priority target vs honourguard/ general. All in all, against an army with little range they're dandy. but if someone does have some range they're gonna get ass whooped. I'm probably gonna take like 1 unit of them only now lol maybe reinforced. They definitely work, and do the job they're supposed to do, which is kill infantry and be a threat to infantry. but maybe i need to try the other units to have a broader understanding of why these globe guys are bad. the wheels and flayers looked kinda nice

[@hubertkafel640]

Can you make kruleboyz tier list?

[@Dino-xz9dd]

I think the Clanrats / Plaguepriest with the MW prayer are bait and not really good. I put it trough a avg damage calculator and Rat Ogors without the MW buff (but with 7 attacks, 1 from warscroll, 1 from molder faction) compared to hordes with the MW buff do more or about equal damage on everything that is a 3+ or worse save. I think another problem is that the MW prayer needs an 8+ so your power 1 Priest will need a avg of 3 chants to get it. I'm purposefully not mentioning Vizzik here since you would pick him for his fight twice prayer, so all his points would go there. Effectivly that means that youll be getting your MW prayer every 2 rounds on your Clanrats/Monks making them an very unreliable Hammer. I also think there is way too many things in a game that can evaporate 40W of rats/monks if it needs to, so sadly for me the conclusion is that Rat Ogors are still a level above rats/monks for hammers. Also for completion sake, I only used the melee profile of rat ogors, if you add the guns damage they probably do more damage in every instance.

[@ssnakeshitful]

Once you do the math the Ratling Gun Weapon Teams have the best damage to points ratio of all the weapon teams. Sure the Scourgers do a little bit more damage against cavalry but they are way more expensive right now. Of all the weapon teams the Globadiers are the worst. But... since I'm a very unsensible person and only allow the rule of cool I bought 20 Acolyte Globadiers off course. 🐀

[@lordcastellan4735]

I disagree about the arch warlock. He's a wizard, but the really important part is he can bring all of the skryre gear you want.

[@JimCrimmins]

I thought this was a really fun interesting conversation.. I didn't agree with every conclusion, but who cares.. Gotta test it in real games anyways.. I wish Vizzik was cheaper and the Verminlords are so expensive for what you get. When in doubt, take more clan rats.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Yeah do the test but if he gets cheaper he gets better

[@Midgar88]

Disagree on visik. We need bodies and damage. Hes 450 points and a massive liability. All i can see is a verminus list with him but does he really make clanrats strong? Im not sure on that. Plus praying is very swingy. You get some 1s and you now have a 450 point model literally doing nothing. Still think thanquol is top tier hes good at everything but hes a top caster that heals and doesnt kill himself. Hes also got the best sig spell in our roster. Keep him in the backline if opponent has deepstrike or deepstrike him. Plus as you said more skitterleaps yes please

[@CapOfXav]

Clanrats are infinitely better than plaguemonks, the extra mortal wounds on death is nice, but damage on a critmortal buffed group of 40 isnt the problem.. PM being save 6 meaning they auto fail against even 1 rend makes them die to any kind of rended focus fire extremely rapidly whereas clanrats can atleast roll a 6 without having to spend a command point

[@martinmountford1981]

Doesn't it feel like alsomenof the units like Verminlords got a recursion tax in their points amount even though non hero infantry are the only ones who can recur through the gnawholes?

[@dionyvice953]

I wish there was a build for warpseer , krittok and a bunch of Stormvermin - but man are these models pointed way too high ( except for warpseer)

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I think there is

[@scottmills4164]

A lot of these heroes just feel like a tax to take certain units. Most of them are pretty underwhelming. And also as you keep mentioning infantry units returning just out values everything.

[@Serra7racon]

Ok the discussion about -1 to hit on a 2+ is better than on 4+ is "inappropriate" :D. It doesn't matter what the base is both units hit less the same... Only the amount of shots would matter.

[@justususalplayer1329]

Is there any use for their reknown regiments, especially for maggotkin of nurgle?

[@NapGod]

probably. StD could benefit from some shooting as well.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I've done a video about that

[@andrewirvine1407]

I don't think StD can take them - booooo!

[@WargamerNed]

I lost my shit at "Murder Hobos"

[@ParsonsMAD]

Must disagree with your assessment of the screaming bell. Yes 2 cast. But how is it better than x2 greyseers. Its ward save is not going to cover any unit (40 clansrats) that it needs to and its force multiplier will only go off 1/3 of the time. If it was 100 points cheaper, or its ward was wholly within 13 it would fix the unit. Unfortunately my poor screaming bell is still stuck on the shelf. And as the most iconic unit since the days of warhammer fantasy gw done the bell dirty.

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I'm sorry I must have mispoke as I don't think it is at all and agree with you

[@jonasandersson5838]

The pricing on all combat characters are insane. How the claw lord even close to a caster or priest. You could cut the price of all non casters by half... (same for most other srmies)

[@frankfurterberus]

Nobody's laughing at clan-rats, I hope. 40 clan rats hitting 80 attacks with Crit mortals is amazing. They will never get 160 attacks. When they get hit back, they're dead. Plus, getting off crit-mortals and fight twice would take 16 prayer points total. That ain't happening.

[@martinmountford1981]

Vizzik, magical intervention and then death frenzy, should get you 6 points then fire up his once per battle reroll for 9 more with a chance of higher. Not a super high chance but doable in first round, take plague pack as well and it's guaranteed almost.

[@jamesguillette3878]

Unfortunately if you ever decide to use one of the prayers you lose all your prayer points, so youd need to have the 8 on vizzik as well as another 8 on a lesser preist who doesnt get the free enemy hero phase chant​@@martinmountford1981

[@timothy2c]

Another way of getting the extra attack is the once per battle Skavenbrew artefact. Then you’d only need to combine it with the one prayer (Filth Crust) on 8+ prayer points for 120 attacks with crit-mortals.

[@AudioAnarchy]

@@timothy2cSkavenbrew would instantly kill 1-3 rats, so it’d still be a ton of attacks, but 3 less for each dead rat (6 if you have the double fight).

[@mrigank3855]

Krittick in the same league as Gardus Steel Soul. Why on earth are these non wizard, non priest support heroes costed at 200 / 220. What is going on over there at that design studio?

[@VenGardGator]

how is Vizzik praying 4 times, he's priest 2 so you get to chant twice in your turn, magical intervention lets you do it again at the end of your opponent's hero phase, where is the 4th coming from?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

If you look on his scroll it says you can do his prayer in your opponents turn as it's ANY hero phase

[@elijahramos3898]

Rob stop telling people about the screaming bell tech i need people to keep underestimating it

[@elijahramos3898]

Jokes aside, solid work my man. Solid place to look if you're starting out with the army and just want a quick snapshot for starting to build lists

[@jarykooijman1293]

So…Clanrats or Monks?

[@djludowici536]

The Skaventide heroes don’t rank as there’s 139 more in the market now.

[@VenGardGator]

Doom wheel moves 16" a turn, how is it not fast enough for you XD

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

Foxes are fast

[@jtb818]

What! You get a free skaventide just by liking and subscribing here!😮😮😮

[@kristoff7049]

Ooops all plaguemonks 🎉 How many free Skaventide boxes can I use to make a good Skaven army?

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

THATS THE BEST BIT

[@stevenwest1873]

Rob why do you think the Skaven are under performing currently in tournaments? Secondly will this book push them to 50% and give them consistency in tournaments?

[@SimonsafSimonsaf]

Wow 2 of the new big oice for skave freaking sucks ! 😢 nice warhammer ! Nice !

[@martinjrgensen8234]

I painted two skaven minis in 1999. You did my boy Thanquol dirty. 0/10 tier list

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I'm glad. I'll do you next

[@jasonmangelsen7136]

Ratz!!!

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

RATZ RATZ

[@andreasghazal5026]

I dont see visik in s tier. Too costly and too situational for gameplay. S tier model though

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

This isn't an s system. Is he effective? Yes

[@andreasghazal5026]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams but in what exactly is he effective in? he has to be very near to combat and its not quiet certain that his prayers go off with an 8. maybe i am mistaken here but i see the verminlord deceiver or the stormfiends in a way more effective spot in what they want to do.

[@Definitely.not_0li]

Thanquol, deceiver>>>>> warpseer

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

You be mad mad!

[@frankfurterberus]

I think the warp grinder is so bad that I would gladly give every opponent I ever play a free warp-grinder that has to pop off its ability by round 3 or they lose it. I guarantee they'll never get it off.

[@cablesalad3168]

This book looks like it's been written by somebody who doesn't understand point costs and has zero clue about how things should be balanced.

[@RugbyLock2668]

This is what they did Skaven dirty in Old World for??? What a joke...

[@TheRonan92]

Very different opinions on some units to Vince Venturella the skaven king. My brain is burning doing list building now. 🤣

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I'm a tournament gamer so not a basement game person

[@TheRonan92]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams I'm very new and running around like a headless chicken. What's a basement game person?

[@omersimsek8502]

@@TheRonan92 He is basically saying that Vince is a casual gamer. "Basement game" as in people who play in a small playgroup, usually in someone's basement.

[@TheRonan92]

@@omersimsek8502 ah ok gotcha. Ty for the clarification.

[@francescxdomenechpares7005]

Vizzik 450p and top tier? xDD too expensive

[@FirstIncarnate7]

i think deathmaster is not great for sure.

[@Bazanti]

Make a Tier list for Idoneth Deepkin already and stop focusing on those terrible Skaven! 😡😡😡(joking carry on Rob great job)

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

I will

[@ForgedInFlamesTTG]

This Tier list is a Joke.

[@gnol4688]

Dude I think your tierlist is absolutely trash 😂… Vizzik is total garbage! Rattling guns are insane value. Deceiver is a hell of a best to predict for the enemy. Don’t know man… stormfiends coming 9 inch away in the enemy turn is so insanely strong. Thanquol is a caster 2 with +1 to cast and he is beefy. I can’t agree with most of your placing

[@massqueraider]

It's pretty off for sure. Always love his content though!

[@gnol4688]

@@massqueraideroh sure yes I like is content too but this tierlist is extremely off

[@massqueraider]

@@gnol4688 yea I agree

[@thehonestwargamerstreams]

you cant even have watched it all its not been up long enough!!

[@gnol4688]

@@thehonestwargamerstreams I can see the finished list when I skip to the end.