THEY LIE TO STEAL YOUR MONEY (Avoid The #1 Wealth Killer In 2024)

[@GeorgeKamel]

Always an honor and pleasure hanging with you guys. Thanks for the hospitality and friendship, regardless of our disagreements 🤣❤️ and special thanks for helping me spread the message of my new book!

[@jloop_2008]

Ya, you're wrong on almost everything. We all know it but you. Mr.Net worth millionaire. 😅😅😅😅😅

[@jacksonbilly9979]

@@BakoBoiCaleb hammer is way overrated

[@georgelien]

George ! Welcome back

[@georgelien]

Credit can be a good thing >__< Not credit cards

[@kungfoochicken08]

@@georgelienDepends on your spending patterns. I have 23 credit cards at the moment. I have a stack of 4 that I use for most expenses, and the others are used for sign up bonuses or for various perks. I only spend 30-50% of what I make a year and I can routinely get 3-7% back on credit cards. I’ve gotten as much as 18% back when I redeemed points for an international flight. I have a spreadsheet to keep track of everything. I did finance for undergrad and grad school, and I’m in real estate, so budgeting and complexity isn’t a problem.

[@katiebwheeler]

the part I think the guys are missing with the paid off house is peace, and security. I'm not trying to get rich, I'm trying to provide basic needs and security for my family. Paying off my 95k house would be life changing for my family. Not even financially but mentally and emotionally and that is priceless.

[@triciaknox7824]

What I love about George’s stance, is that he communicates a very clear, tangible goal. Eliminate debt and there is a very clear, practical step process to do that. With all these young, zealous entrepreneurs, there is no explicit goal. They say “financial wealth” but that is SO ambiguous and it’s never something that ever seems to be reached. It’s like chasing the wind. AND there is no clear, practical steps in doing that. If you ask entrepreneurs how they got where they are, there will be MANY different answers, paths taken, and probably a lot of pit falls and even lucky hands dealt in the process. I imagine with George’s goal, the success rate is higher and people feel more rewarded, content in life and at peace than those who follow the KZbin gurus of building wealth. The building wealth lot always appear to be restless, discontent and striving to measure up to a shallow ideal of success.

[@janelleg597]

Hmmm good point

[@mrbubbles6468]

If you listen to enough of them you’ll realise it is the same path just said different.

[@Kat-z3b]

I think Codie and Alex Hormozi give pretty detailed and concrete steps as well

[@SethFowler]

I love the Dave Ramsey team episodes, always fun to see two people I watch have different views on a topic

[@sarscov9854]

Debt leverage is the main ingredient to financial crises, if too many people do it.

[@Jack-hv3uj]

People nowadays don't appreciate their own opinion, let alone take the time to process and form one

[@sarscov9854]

@@Jack-hv3uj leverage is fine if the few people that are doing it know what they're doing. When the masses do it, it leads to financial crisis when a large chunk of people have to default for playing stupid games. But who's to decide who is and isn't allowed to do it? I reckon your comment is for yourself?

[@Dtrain79]

Would the Ramsey crew approve of the $20 sneaker challenge lol

[@Jack-hv3uj]

@@sarscov9854 sorry this was misplaced frustration on no sleep.

[@abanobmikaeel3169]

I truly have no idea why this podcast doesn't consistently go viral. The advice on here is often exclusive, helpful, and not too generic that most people would benefit from it. Truly enjoy episodes like this, I do love Ramsey/George's philosophies and they have made me much wealthier/happier, not to mention Jack/Graham being always spot on with their questions. So thankful for this channel and the 2 financial ecosystems of Ramsey/Graham!

[@OatPancake]

I think most people don’t want to hear the truth. Especially when it come from the Ramsey team.

[@rebeccashields9626]

Yah but people don’t want to be told they can do it. They want to be given reasons why their poor decisions aren’t their fault. People want to hear they are doing everything right, they shouldn’t change a thing, and the world is out to get them.

[@hopefilledfinancial]

@@OatPancake George did a fine job in my opinion until he hit the 8% bit. I don't think he addressed the concern clearly in an effort to walk a fine line. I think those answers fell short of the truth in order to avoid losing his job or throwing Dave under the bus publicly.

[@mrbubbles6468]

@@hopefilledfinancialHe answered it fine as Dave did at the time, adjust if need be. It’s guidlines to follow you can deviate if you want.

[@hopefilledfinancial]

@@mrbubbles6468 IMO, the 8% guideline is dangerous, and George has now called my malicious twice in a public manner. I may be biased since that remark was directed at me, so I believe anyone would understand my believing his answer and Daves answer to fall short of being fine.

[@NatetheHoofGuy]

Once you’re debt free you don’t view money the same way. It simply becomes a tool and not a pursuit. You get to a point where you don’t really even have to think about it anymore. Just like you would never buy 45 hammers you realize you don’t need 45 rental properties to create the cash flow to service the debt and build equity in pursuit of…..Bottom line is you start living your real life once you’re debt free.

[@000retaliate]

"You get to a point where you don’t really even have to think about it anymore", that point was when I quit paying attention to price tags when shopping for items.

[@secondubly]

"the mental and emotional energy required to fight this lady over buying this car is just not worth it." I try to explain this to my mother when she asks "why do you pay so much for (X)?" and she just can't get it. I have the money to buy the thing, spending 30mins to an hour to haggle down a price isn't worth it, just take my money and let me go. She still thinks I'm weird for treating my credit cards like debit cards 😔

[@rocket8351]

I love the hoof trimming videos Nate. Anyone who saw the 80's Farm crisis knows why the Ramsey way is the smarter way. Crazy tragic things happen when too many people are too far leveraged when the financial storms come.

[@ericaterrones16]

💯!

[@trishapickar9360]

Food, shelter, and water were all free at one time. The government has spent all of the 401k's. If you are debt free, money means nothing. Stop relying on money and the government.

[@reggiejenkins6458]

It’s great to see Dave finally let George out of his dungeon after that 8% fiasco. Godspeed.

[@tomiasthexder7673]

George so wants to agree Dave is wrong, but no chance he will. He dodged that question…8% of 2 million or 8% of 100,000 is still 8%. The balance is irrelevant. 8% has a 60% of failing.

[@mrbubbles6468]

@@tomiasthexder7673He answered it perfectly. It was never about the exact amount or failure you. It was about the fact that regardless of the number you are likely going to be ok.

[@nataliebryn2313]

I don’t know the 8% fiasco. Can you catch me up? Please.

[@Nite_coder]

@@nataliebryn2313 Dave thinks an 8% withdrawal rate is safe in retirement when there is mathematical data to show that it fails 60% of the time to last for 30 years

[@hiteshadhikari]

Dave says u can spend 8% of ur portfolio each year post retirement and u will never run out of money if u keep rest invested because it will grow at 8 to 10% Reaoity is most people suggest a safe withdrawal rate is close to 4% but dave is hardcore on 8% and when george said he would suggest be more critical when spending and should spend 3 to 4%, dave got to know during a call and he berated George​@@nataliebryn2313

[@dassix1636]

The peace you get without any debt is difficult to quantify.

[@YadraVoat]

Perhaps a portable electroencephalogram?

[@dhamn7027]

George is my favorite guest every time, I love that they are able to have civil conversations consistently with differing views.

[@zerohecks4864]

Maybe opening a credit card like opening a bottle of wine, some people can limit themselves to one glass, where others cannot.

[@copboom555]

it be more like i give you a voucher that says for every 10 drinks, i offer you 1 free drink. many people will drink 2-3 glasses if they are close to that 1 free drink because they feel like they are gaming the system. they will make excuses like "well wine prices will go up in the future because inflation so its better to spend more now than in the future" to justify the added expenses.

[@Silverdragon517]

Very well put

[@VBoo459]

Exactly that! Some people will limit their spending even if there’s more to go, the same way some people bought that air pumping bottle pump for wine on Amazon

[@donjohnson1416]

Right and the MAJORITY of the US cannot handle the debt hence Dave saying DONT open one.

[@mcephas6982]

Credit cards aren't just some spending addiction. They might enable all addictions, but many people are using them as a substitute for a high income or as an emergency fund for when they're unemployed. When the cost of living goes up 10x over several decades, but wages go up only 3x, many people in the lower income brackets use credit to make the difference. They might actually be drinking (spending) the same as the person drinking 2-3 glasses, they just don't have the same margin.

[@William0271]

"If people had to pay taxes in cash they would revolt" Very good point

[@markcoleman7246]

People should already be revolting by taxes in general and our current situation but the good little npc sheep will continue to wander like materialistic zombies.

[@alaina4070]

​@@markcoleman7246You're one of them too. We all are. Unless you are somehow avoiding and out running the IRS

[@BlazerManiacNumber96]

@@markcoleman7246 There is no example in history of a civilization that survived without taxation. The real problem is where our tax money goes.

[@bonifacio419]

Basically this is a psychological vs mathematical debate. Math-wise credit cards and low interest debt makes financial sense to someone who is not emotional with money. No debt and no mortgage is not as good financially, but would be the best move for someone who is emotional or nonsensical with money. I'm in the debt free camp for the average person, but I understand the appeal of the other side.

[@tylersanders2388]

I used to think this way, but after listening to every financial theorist and economist talk, I’ve decided that simplest works best. No cost benefit analysis, no comparing rates, and no keeping debt for $30 a month in rewards. Owning everything is the only plan that makes you happy and fulfilled that statistical analysis can’t count.

[@joseluna5934]

Both right

[@Toastymuffin]

Most people think they will win playing the credit game. Most people WANT to believe they aren't emotional with money. The game was designed so the house would win, otherwise there would be no credit cards etc... What the game does is make you emotionally attached to credit.

[@IFYOUWANTITGOGETIT]

My goal this year is to get completely out of debt. And start saving and investing like crazy!

[@deathtrap5556]

you're right. But I'm honestly surprised they didn't mention meeting anywhere in the middle. Where you could take a mortgage but it doesn't have to be 30 years. It could be over a period of 10 years because you know you can afford, even paying it in cash. That way whenever you make EXTRA cash, you can put it towards the loan and just pay it off ASAP.

[@averynmitchell]

4:19 "It's like saying 'If you're good at gambling, you should gamble'". Good point, George!

[@SeanJohns-ze8ie]

Managing money is different from accumulating wealth, and the lack of investment education in schools may explain why people struggle to maintain their financial gains. The examples you provided are relevant, and I personally benefited from the market crisis, as I embrace challenging times while others tend to avoid them. Well, at least my advisor does too, jokingly.

[@RobertDamanii]

I don't think I need a finance advisor. I can manage my own money and investments. I don't want to pay someone else to tell me what to do with my hard-earned cash.

[@GibsonJames-gr3on]

That's a risky attitude, My friend. You might be missing out on some valuable opportunities and strategies that a finance advisor can offer. A finance advisor can help you plan for your short-term and long-term goals, optimize your tax situation, diversify your portfolio, and avoid costly mistakes.

[@OwenFlex]

I used to think like you. I thought I knew enough about finance and investing to handle everything myself. But then I realized that I was spending too much time and energy on researching, analyzing, and monitoring my finances. I was also overwhelmed by the the of information and options available. I decided to hire a finance advisor and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. They saved me a lot of time and money, and gave me peace of mind.

[@RoseBalerus]

how did you find a good finance advisor? How do you know if they are trustworthy and competent?

[@JasonAmir-qo4uo]

People downplay planner’s role, until they are burnt by their mistakes. That’s why I’ve been working with expert planners like CHRIS RYAN STEWART

[@jackka82]

I've never treated a credit card as an actual credit card. I only ever use credit cards as debit cards, and never had to blame my own decisions on the marketing of credit card companies, regardless of how scummy they are.

[@luisvigo3777]

You sound like a responsible adult. I salute you.

[@jerkface38]

I did that until my cats and a couple cats that got dumped on me got sick. Then it started get treated like a credit card/loan.

[@ryanbon2414]

Same. Physical cash has the benefit of being untraceable and you get avoid fraud. I just look at a credit card as a debit card except I get something back.

[@landonbrands]

A lot of these stories are about external locus of control. "Marketing made me do it" "cats got dumped on me" ... take responsibility for your own decisions.

[@stocksxbondage]

Same. I actually use it to separate types of expenses. Wife and I travel a lot with family in different states so whether I swipe a debit or credit, we’re still buying two flights to spend the holidays with family. It doesn’t increase my spending. If anything it quickly helps me keep track of how much I’ve spent every 2 weeks (paid biweekly).

[@TinaLeder]

Love the different perspectives conversed with respect and data focused 🙌

[@TheIcedCoffeeHour]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@SpiritualMother]

The thing I like about the debt free lifestyle is it eliminates risk. Who doesn’t want simplicity?! Who doesn’t want a peaceful life?! Who doesn’t want to sleep at night?!

[@kungfoochicken08]

It reduces risk, but it also reduces your risk adjusted returns and it increases your exposure to inflation risk. Debt for consumer goods or cars is dumb as it’s a clear sign you’re buying stuff you can’t afford. Debt for a mortgage or a business is usually a good thing.

[@SpiritualMother]

@@kungfoochicken08 Running a business has enough risk without the burden of debt.

[@kungfoochicken08]

@@SpiritualMother If you wait to start a business until you have enough money, it’s going to take forever. There’s nothing wrong with smart debt.

[@danieljohnson4418]

I have $400k in debt. I sleep fine at night.

[@4XGOTSTICKS]

@@danieljohnson4418AMEN🤣🫡

[@aaronmeadows1667]

I think financial transparency in a marriage is more important than having a joint account. Accounts don't need to be joint to have transparency.

[@VBoo459]

Exactly this!

[@robingow7276]

Why? If it’s my account and not our account why should get to know what’s in it?

[@gayfarms]

I feel this ! I do not have a joint account. We split things down the middle and have different spending habits as well. We talk everything out and do not need a joint account. Communication trumps all other things

[@jasonleung8845]

Modern debt is borderline modern slavery for most, craziest thing the majority of people seem to think it's ok to be heavily indebted to corpa and it's the norm now

[@janelleg597]

Keep slavery out of this. Slavery is unbelievably physically brutal and dehumanizing. Getting into debt because you're dumb is not the same. Hate it when people whine about modern slavery. You have no idea.

[@SovereignMoney]

The issue with 8% is not that we are telling people they can't pull as much out of their $2M portfolio. It's that we are saying their $500k portfolio cannot sustain a $40k annual withdrawal with COTA adjustments. And there are far far more people who are on track for less than $500k in retirement than have a $2M portfolio and are deciding on 4-10% withdrawal rate.

[@nailatiylluf]

They immediately move the goalposts. “Well if you adjust your lifestyle or have no debt or have a lot of money”…well that wasn’t the question was it?

[@hopefilledfinancial]

I do not understand why George said that those who follow their plan will likely not be concerned with a distribution strategy in retirement. The vast majority of us will fall short of being so wealthy that it won't be a problem. I certainly don't think I will be rich enough to avoid needing a solid plan. I also think the majority of retirees will value A) a plan unlikely to run the nest egg dry. and B) a plan that gives consistent buying power/income year after year. There is an argument to be said that adjusting income per market conditions will improve your distribution efficiency and lower risk, but that isn't the argument at play, and it is contrary to the popular goal. IMO, George knows the truth from the Trinity study and other studies that have proceeded it. He seemed to expressly mention he is aware of counter arguments to 8% SWRs and why it is dangerous. I think he walked a crazy fine line in an effort to protect Dave or his job. But that is at the expense of having a purely transparent response free of political games. If Dave's main concern is giving hope, I don't think he should give his listeners a false hope with this 8% stuff. That just isn't justifiable in my eyes.

[@WeBeatMedicare6969]

Are COTA adjustments the same as COLA?

[@StephanDavisson]

4% is not the be all end all. It also has a failure rate. I’ve seen people take much higher amounts, 8-10%, to bridge the time between when they stop working until 67-70 when they can get a significantly increased SS payment. It can work. Also, it’s not always by choice. Some people lose their jobs, get injured or sick, or for whatever reason are not able to work until they planned to and a higher withdrawal rate can work for them to het to that higher SS benefit. One more thing, there is a bit of a disconnect between the current crop of retire early people and Ramsey, who is more old school…..work until 65 or 67 or whatever. 8% is not going to work if you need to do it for 30-40 years. Context matters.

[@hopefilledfinancial]

@@StephanDavisson I agree. That is basically why time horizons matter a lot for the selection of a strategy. I focus a lot on the that in episode #36 of my show. That’s also why I’m not a flat 4% guy. I think grasping failure rates or risks for each plan is what helps us all make the most informed choices - FIRE or traditional. :)

[@boneyn3661]

So refreshing to see a respectful and intellectual conversation, even though they come from two different philosophies. Great job fellas

[@thomaschew2191]

Maybe it's a character flaw on my part but I started winning with money when I stopped using credit cards and paid them off.

[@braziikid]

I agree with you, same here! Not a character flaw - just another path towards wealth building

[@WTF-sh4is]

Bottom Line: Do not use a credit card if you cannot pay off the total balance every month. Period.

[@eatpigsnot]

no one knows what life can throw at them between the transaction date and due date

[@pasiojala3227]

@@eatpigsnot Unforeseen emergencies is what the emergency fund is for. (Using a credit card balance for it isn't how it's done.)

[@Joshmarmolejo_]

This is truly the content I’m interested in lol. Two people who have different philosophies about money having a discussion.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Yes. A discussion not an argument. Many people need to learn from this.

[@nailatiylluf]

The issue with the response to their 8% recommendation is that when you call them on it they immediately move the goalposts. “Well if you adjust your lifestyle or have no debt or have a lot of money…” well that wasn’t the question was it? Sorry George it’s not silly to debate 4% vs 8% that’s literally half the income and the difference between going back to work at 80 or not.

[@hopefilledfinancial]

He changed the topic with an answer that doesn't address the concern. Other than calling my intentions malicious, the thing that bothered me the most is that he said that the financial advisors and community will just do what they do and that they use Dave as a punching bag just for clicks while not actually helping anyone. That doesn't answer anything and borders an attack of character in place of fact-based debate. I am saddened.

[@emilyegan390]

This. I felt that George seemed to acknowledge that Dave's advice could be dangerous if you followed it strictly because you might have to change your withdrawal rate, but seemed to then also suggest that you would be "fine." You can't both acknowledge sequence of returns risk is real and something you need to be prepared for, but in the same conversation seem to dismiss it. He is clearly trying to not bite the hand that feeds him while admitting that it might not work. As Graham notes the failure rate will approach 100% if you have a couple bad years at the start and even ignoring that you're really gambling on a coin flip type odds that you won't run out of money.

[@emilyegan390]

@@hopefilledfinancial I think that the reality is that Dave and his employees believe that saying he helped X number of people means that his advice is above criticism. Even the brightest people make mistakes.

[@hopefilledfinancial]

@@emilyegan390 We all do make mistakes. That is for sure. I think a utilitarian philosophy that dismisses mistakes if much good was done gives permission for bad mistakes when it puts anyone above correction. I am really extending an inference for brevity, but I think you get the point. We seem to largely be of the same mind on this matter.

[@doompod]

Graham said it: “At this point it would take a lot of money to pay the mortgages off…” THAT right there means he is slave to debt. He should pay them off to be free, period. Do it.

[@sappyk2222]

Time stamp?

[@TheEvilCommenter]

You're not a slave to debt you can easily pay off lol. If you have a $100k mortgage at 3% and $100k in an HYSA making you 5% it would be absolutely foolish to take the money out of the saving account to pay off the mortgage. You'd be losing $2000 a year if you did that.

[@Sky-wakka]

George is by far my favorite Ramsey personality. Love when you guys have him on

[@emilyegan390]

To be fair compared to Dave Ramsey George at least seems to not get into the same degree of petty, but I still think George fumbled the question on 8% withdrawal. I like that Graham really called him out on it pointing out how real the failure rate really is if you followed the 8% withdrawal rate, but feel that they realized that they knew George would never outright say that Dave was wrong because working for Ramsey he wouldn't be working there long if he outright said Dave was wrong. They outright prefaced the question saying that they didn't expect him to answer it. That being said unlike Dave he seems to at least grasp that sequence of returns risk is a thing he just seems to try to ignore it by cherry picking the data. At least unlike Dave he seems to admit that you may need to reduce that if you're going to not run out of money.

[@j-r1277]

100k five years ago is the same as 130k today. If your wages have not kept up with this pace, you’re worst off financially. Nobody wants to have the same pricing power over a five year span.

[@lukescapee1234]

The Ramsey, Jack, and Graham content is always amazing!

[@RobGoldy]

George Kamel is such a great, down to earth and intelligent guest to have on the show!

[@MrDavidMaurice]

Jacks face when George says 'like the genie in the lamp working for Jafar, remember that?!' 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Slsbryrckstr]

Was this like don’t mention Disney they are ruthless lawyers for copyright infringement or am I missing something After the look he mouthed darn it and pretended to hit hand on desk very interesting interaction clearly violated some discussed rule before pod

[@Swordbringer]

Thank you guys for inviting George the first time, since I’ve heard of him and Dave Ramsey then, I’ve started the Ramsey babysteps. I have $1000 in my savings and have been chipping down my debt slowly but surely

[@The_Love_Doctor_Sean]

I think each camp has great options.

[@light0000]

Slow n steady always wins the race. Slow is smooth Smooth is fast

[@NicholasPickleous]

Yo hows your progress?

[@Rocket9944]

A company is not forcing you to get a credit card, I have credit cards and I pay them off "Every Month", with the cash back I get about $45 a month .

[@lindajohnson.]

I enjoy my reward $$$ at the end of the year. I pay my card balance every month.😊😊😊😊

[@peterparker2068]

I think of it that you are losing money if you don't use a credit card. Companies just pass those transaction fees and swipe fees by increasing the price of products and services.

[@dicedtomato3471]

At 3% cashback thats srill spending $1500 a month on your credit card.

[@Rocket9944]

@@dicedtomato3471 , And?

[@Rocket9944]

@@dicedtomato3471 , And?

[@jp9552]

Two hours of George and iced coffee! ❤🎉

[@OatPancake]

I need more

[@punkbassandcovers]

"I pay off my credit card every month" says everyone I know. Someone(s) is lying.

[@4XGOTSTICKS]

I guess, I’m 22 years old. Got 10 cards. $37k in personal credit and $52k in business credit. Never one time have I even made a MINIMUM PAYMENT. Credit cards are far far superior from any other way to spend money, as long as you can control yourself and have the due diligence to use it responsibly.

[@InvestingWithAdamK]

If the income makes sense and you have a 3% mortgage or below you DO NOT want to pay that off. Way better off using that money in other investments.

[@Steve56-w9r]

As a Tennessean, I have to point out that Tennessee does NOT have a capital gains tax at the state level, so I'm confused by that part of your conversation.

[@SquidRider]

SOME rich people I know have credit cards, EVERY poor person I know has a credit card.

[@baconcerberus]

The billion at 0% is an eye opener for me. It’s not about what is financially best for people, but them pushing there principles against debt. If I had a 0% mortgage and a 10% HYSA they would still tell me to pay off the mortgage.

[@mcephas6982]

What happens if that 1929 situation comes up and you now have a billion dollars of debt you're going to have to pay back? Banks went under. There were Bank Holidays. People lost their deposits. Whether people realise it or not, when you deposit money in the bank, it's no longer your money. It's the Bank's money. "Your money" is also their collateral. What happens if the scenario of the documentary "The Great Taking" comes to pass and we go into the next Great Depression? Well you would be screwed if you were in a billion dollars of debt, and you would lose everything.

[@thegamingcaffe]

Because no one besides the Ramsey folks talks about risk and the stress associated with it. Everyone follows all this financial advise but the stress of having a huge debt, regardless of interest rate hanging over your head can get to you

[@baconcerberus]

@@thegamingcaffe that’s what they say to justify their point , but at the end it is about the religious view of not borrowing money. Even if you could remove risk the answer would still be the same. Jack asked Dave the same question and the answer was about his religious principle.

[@thegamingcaffe]

@baconcerberus That's where Dave pulls his ideals, but George went through the baby steps. It's hard to argue ideals that work.

[@pastdue7170]

Correct, tho not all the advice is bad. It is not a sane way to think. It is like saying their no good time to lie.

[@kalliemj]

Both my sister and I got mad that the credit card companies gave us a credit increase. Neither one of us wanted the opportunity to spend more. I wish we could set the limit ourselves.

[@JD-jy4tt]

From what I see Graham is not a big risk taker. Just more than this dude.

[@SarahTaylor_]

I’m under pressure to grow my reserve that currently holds about $500k. I’m down by 20% already following the crash and I fear I could lose more.

[@mcginnnavraj4201]

I believe the safest approach is to diversify investments. They can mitigate the effects of a market meltdown by diversifying their investments across asset classes such as bonds, real estate, and international stocks. It is important to seek the advice of an expert.

[@trazzpalmer3199]

Strategic investments are crucial. My ideal investment is a varied portfolio of stocks, bonds, and ETFs. It provides an excellent long-term return and has performed admirably thus far, but I needed to diversify my portfolio at some point, so I approached a coach who devised a system that aligned with my goals; so far, I've made a whopping $580k, and scaling my portfolio to a million by the end of the year does not appear too far-fetched to me.

[@trazzpalmer3199]

Laurelyn Gross Pohlmeier is the licensed fiduciary I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment..

[@tampabayrodeo2474]

I simply googled her and was really impressed with her qualifications; I contacted her since I needed all the help I could get. I've just scheduled a CAII.

[@keiranninjaspirit]

Keep on investing Sarah ..look at coca cola during the COVID stock dropped dramatically..it's way up now ..don't panic. Stay on course

[@Novazilla]

Of all of the "Ramsey Personalities" George Kamel is my favorite. I really hope he takes the torch from Dave when he retires.

[@qmam]

I have to agree with George that being debt free has no % or $ value. It is beyond counting "what if you invested in this and that". As somebody who is debt free I see how much easier I talk about money, plans, etc. vs friends and family members who struggle with payment on their "stupid tax" they paid for things they really don't need, but they bought them to improve their image, not so much their lifestyle. Debt free is priceless.

[@bigskyguy1611]

Great interview. I really appreciate these interviews with Dave and George and that you all can have a friendly and entertaining discussion about your different financial philosophy's.

[@Dats_ttv]

Stumbled upon this on my KZbin "for you" page. Was really bracing myself for some Andrew Tate-esque rhetoric like 'get rich quick' 'just work harder', etc. Was so pleasantly surprised to hear a well reasoned, thoughtful, rational conversation. Instantly hit the subscribe button and downloaded some of the archive for my podcast walks!

[@alexpietsch7997]

I think this way: Dave(+George) will make a man earn 55k a year, need 25k to live, and reture with 1.2 million in their nest egg. Graham will make a man in his 40s earn 120k and need 115k to live, but have a 20 million nest egg at retirement and several million in paid off real estate at retirement age

[@geverniveup]

I’ve been thinking the way George is explaining for the last 15 years. I never understood playing into a toxic money culture system. The mental clarity of not being in debt in any form is more than worth the “rewards” of having multiple mortgages, credit cards, and financing debts. It doesn’t make sense to play the game if you think this way. In saying that I appreciate both sides of the conversation…because it’s not an argument. Happy new years guys!

[@barnabusdoyle4930]

Having a few rental properties could be the most viable retirement plan that a lot of people could end up having. The entire idea of diversifying your investments is owning things in the stock market, real estate, bonds and so on. Too much advice nowadays is leaning towards only investing in the stock market. That’s not diversifying.

[@TylerRayHamblin]

@@barnabusdoyle4930 The stock market is one of the most diverse investments you can be invested in. the S&P 500 is literally a stock of the rotating top 500 companies in the U.S. show me a house that has that much diversity.

[@FirstName-rt9uf]

Great conversation all! I think what sums up some of these divergent philosophies simply boils down to person sophistication/ knowledge. Everyone is correct here. Grame is right on credit cards for those people who don't abuse them and understand them. George is absolutely right for the majority of people that aren't, and a life philosophy of little or no debt is the best course.

[@niqolustrades]

"Spending more b/c ur spending" was 2023 for me we purchased a house and it just kept draining. 2024 will be the year of saving.

[@TH0KH]

It's def costly to adjust to a new place. took me about 3.5 years and 30k of changes and upgrades to finally feel like I had everything needed to have my house functional and safe

[@itslorenzo]

I think the folks at the Ramsey team speak to the "general American" population who are NOT financially astute nor really interested in capitalizing on the financial "game". Those of us who enjoy personal finance, their teachings largely don’t apply to. We KNOW better than to be had by credit companies and capitalize on the opportunities 🤑!

[@dandahl5964]

Basically 80% of the population😅

[@itslorenzo]

@@dandahl5964 Yes! I just wish they wouldn’t make blanket, "one size fits all" statements. But it is what it is.

[@ronaldbennett1655]

I love George’s understanding of what really matters and sticking to his beliefs. Not saying money isn’t important, it can even be great.

[@barbaratozzano6364]

It is so hard explaing to younger people why "the boring" path is what they should be doing. My modest home is paid for, fully funded emergency fund, saving/investing 25% of take home pay plus 403B. No worries!

[@rmay3186]

What a well timed episode to start the new year! Great reminder to stay disciplined and informed on your finances.

[@lastime77]

Graham sounds like he's forcing the advertisement for fancy bread. LOL. You gotta do what you gotta do to hustle. 😂🎉

[@MichalLSK]

paid off mortgage is best feeling...yes yiu can gain more money in stock market but freedom is still number one assets for me, now without mortgage I can take great risks in my career.

[@aerated]

Money in the stock market (or even a CD paying more than the 3% mortgages a lot of people have) literally provides more freedom by providing more flexibility by not having your money locked into an illiquid asset

[@hellfire0332]

@@aerated If they are invested in IRAs or 401k's, you can't pull them out anyway without penalties. For most people, not having a mortgage reduces their monthly expenses by nearly 1/3. This frees up a significant amount of your income to provide flexibility and cover down on unexpected costs. If you already have an emergency fund (which you should prior to paying off your mortgage), you should have enough flexibility without relying on your stock portfolio to carry you.

[@Silverdragon517]

I would pay off my primary residence only and not rentals if you have positive cash flow from them

[@reggiejenkins6458]

@@aeratedhaving your money invested, it does actually become essentially somewhat illiquid a large portion of the time. Say your $200k investment drops to $140k in a recession, which is common. Are you pulling that money out for other things? Almost definitely not, because you know it will eventually go up. It’s locked in by rational choice. When it’s up, you can take it out no problem, but are also usually scared it will go up more, so you probably won’t touch it. It’s always an issue no matter what you invest into really.

[@spidaman8888]

I Love these channels: The Iced Coffee Hour, Stock Brotha, & FREENVESTING. Great to watch! ❤ ❤ ❤

[@TheIcedCoffeeHour]

Thanks!

[@Ur_clickbait_is_trash]

Skammers interview Skammres for clicks and views. That's all this show is about now....

[@_not_your_mom]

​@@Ur_clickbait_is_trashskamers?

[@Yotraj]

On the concept of killing all debt.... since the 2008 financial crisis, I have seen, many times, stated as fact that we the people have given the Banks and Wall Street over $30 Trillion to cover up their mistakes, the ones they made (illegally & still to date... no prosecutions). NOw at the time of 2008 I have also seen it stated that the entire mortgage debt market of the US,,, the largest asset backed security of the world, was around $14 Trillion. Which means... every mortgage in the entre US could have been paid off... TWICE and we the people could have saved a couple of $trillion. Assuming the numbers are correct, then we the people not only got screwed out of $30 trillion, the market is still alive you know, but we also paid TO BE SCREWED! Now that's a real life example of the power behind the debt industrial complex. And when you volunteer to go into debt, these are the people you're helping, assisting, supporting. And that's called colluision and that is immoral.

[@CinemaCakes]

The thing I feel like never gets brought up when it comes to house payments and a long term loan is that on paper it makes sense to take out a 30 year mortgage but ONLY if you use the difference between a 15 and 30 payment as an investment and most people aren’t gonna do that. They take the amount they save by doing 30 years and use it for consumer spending. So it’s a flawed assumption to think that most people will actually do that.

[@barnabusdoyle4930]

The counter to that is the 30 year mortgage offers a bit more flexibility then the 15. You can make more payments on the 30 to try to pay it down early, then if life happens and you need to cut back, you can fall back on the smaller minimum payment. With a 15, you don’t have that option. Opportunity costs for mortgages are mostly minimal and isn’t the way people should think about them.

[@wallywest2360]

Kinda makes sense when the mortgage payment is considerably less than rent for the same size place. My mortgage, 30 year fixed rate, is $935/month. 4 bedroom, 2500 square feet. That includes taxes and insurance. My neighbors, in an identical house, pay $1500/month, and they're lucky because the landlord is old and hasn't raised it in years. Now a better situation would be to own the house with zero mortgage, but failing that I'm clearly in a better financial spot than my neighbors, even though I have $100k left on the mortgage. At least when it's paid I'll own the house. They'll be out much more money and own nothing.

[@AccessMentorTips]

It was suggested that a marriage should have a joint account and two separate accounts. I totally agree. The separate accounts are for private use. For instance, if I want to buy presents, I don't want my partner to see everything. The joint account is most of the money. The other reason to have separate accounts is to handle when you have someone who is a spender and another who is a saver.

[@jnak974]

I like Graham’s tone in this show. I haven’t seen his stuff in a while and back in the day, he used to seem annoyed all the time. Nice to see him more relaxed.

[@EytsirhcChristye]

I miss old Graham. He’s been clickbaity lately.

[@slevitron1543]

It feels like George was really hedging his words when talking about the 8%. George knows that 8% isn't sustainable, but for as long as he is under the Ramsey moniker he has to toe the Ramsey line. "I think there's certain situations where that would be totally fine. If you follow the Ramsey plan and you have a giant nest egg and that's your plan then that's sustainable." The majority of people who follow the Ramsey plan do not have a giant nest egg, not even close. Dave's whole spiel about 8% used a hypothetical $1 million nest egg (which is still likely high for the average Ramsey listener) being able to take out $80k per year indefinitely. It's just not sustainable and it feels like George knows this, but he also knows he can't voice his true feelings on it. George's video where he talks about withdrawing 3% of your nest egg over a 30 year retirement is on point. Dave is selling hope with bad advice because if you actually need $2mil (which George used in his example in this video) it may feel daunting and prevent people from investing.

[@emilyegan390]

I agree that he seems to be trying to wiggle and acknowledge that 8% may not be sustainable while not really outright calling Dave wrong. As long as he is an employee for Ramsey I don't think he would realistically have a job for very long if he publicly unambiguously said Dave was wrong on something. He seems to recognize that Dave's suggestion might not work, but doesn't seem to really acknowledge the reality of what Graham says that your odds of failure are pretty real. Kamel seems to cherry pick and say that there are situations where the market was amazing and everything works out and you end up with plenty of money to pass to your heirs, but kinda hand waves the other side where you run out of money.

[@slevitron1543]

@@emilyegan390 100% on point in your analysis. I like George I think he is the best Ramsey personality, but I think he would do better if he was forced to agree with Dave and the Ramsey brand on every topic as an employee. I think in the coming years we could potentially see George stepping away and starting his own show under his brand, if not then hopefully he gets a little more leeway with his talent and growing knowledge about what to do beyond debt; though I doubt that would happen.

[@freedomring3022]

People don't want to hear this advice ... they want the "get rich quick" plan

[@jaredbridge122]

I think you guys handled this episode oh so well. This was a lot of fun to listen to.

[@BrucieB_KidCapri]

Love the podcast. Been subscribed from the beginning. Happy New Year! I’ll be tuning in every Sunday.

[@TheIcedCoffeeHour]

Happy new year!

[@Bangboogz]

You guys are so down to earth funny and humble.

[@TheItalianKid]

Awesome episode, a lot of insight. I'm becoming a financial coach, between how my dad handled money, being on my own away from family and had to survive because of financial management and the love of helping others, I belive I'm in the right profession.. Any insight you guys have, please send my way!!!

[@OldFramer]

You can apply this mindset to every single aspect of our consumerism-based lives. Every company out there is trying to separate you from your money. Of course, this is after your favorite uncle has taken their "fair share".

[@srbharadwaj]

What a wonderful episode..loved it..more such episodes please

[@Bippityboppityboop]

52 year old,Single mom of adult disabled daughter here. The struggle is real! I've worked my tail off and have been renting for 20 years. I want to buy a house, but trying to save money plus paying off debt is just a juggling act. Once I get ahead, some kind of expense happens. We live beneath our means, budget, meal prep each week, etc. Im working two jobs also. Aarrghhhhhhh

[@JaneTrail]

A 3.5% mortgage isn't as cheap as it looks. A $450,000 home costs $635,120 over 30 years with the compounded interest. Save on the $185,120 in interest by paying off your mortgage early and then invest the interest savings.

[@deltasteve1]

Peice of mind is worth more than the money saved. Payed off my mortgage. Who cares if I loose a little in the long run. I won already.

[@travelnurseadventures3225]

My favorite collab--both GS and GK have different philosophies on money--love the conversation!

[@buddytynes8633]

I love the show and the guests have been so good lately. I'm greatful for this podcast and the things it has taught me.

[@WTF-sh4is]

I am like a blood hound when I have gift cards to use, redeem, apply for. I never let them go unused. But, the flip side, I spend a lot of time wasted tracking theses things down and keeping them organized.

[@christopherhernandez3909]

Happy New Years 🥳 pay off your debts!

[@Alyssasue222]

At the end of the day retailers are charging more for everything to cover credit card fees. We are paying an extra 3% baked into costs and getting 1 or 2% back. Right there you lose and then people spend more than they would with cash when using credit. So it’s never going to be a win. It increases inflation because people can demand more supply with their imaginary money. It has enabled a consumer lifestyle and living beyond our means keeping people stuck in jobs they don’t love. Stressed out etc. etc.

[@alexanderfox-robinson4910]

One thing's for sure, debt is gross.

[@Brian-vk1hm]

Bad debt is gross. I love good debt/leverage.

[@lowyaknow]

Love seeing these 3 on the tube.

[@Reece634]

George is a strong personality

[@herwee]

I've been a credit card user for years responsibly, I've seen it as a 2-5% discount on everything I already need to purchase (and I don't spend much anyways), however the only argument for not using it I've heard that appealed to me is that the companies I'm doing business with are preying on people that aren't as responsible. Never thought I'd consider stopping, kudos George. I detest debt and strongly discourage it, primarily because of my faith and now it doesn't sit right even if I'm benefitting some small amount.

[@julianhooks477]

The average American has little to no discipline. Without it, you’ll never “win” the debt game. The anti debt movement is great for people with no discipline or self control. For the people who has mastered self discipline, ignore the advice and keep on being successful. I doubt any truly successful people are in this comment section.

[@LawrenceTimme]

Exactly, if you don't need the advice then don't listen to it

[@gabyleon9241]

Not gonna lie, George definitely changed my opinion on how I view credit. I’m someone who pays off my cc every month and thought I was only benefitting but when he said I wouldn’t be spending as much money if it were debit I think he’s right. I’m going to do an experiment and not use my credit card for a month and only use debit. I want to see if my spending decreases

[@jellyrcw12]

I switched over to mostly debit cards (except for gas since it's a hot spot for fraud) and its definitely helped a lot!

[@sheilaflory2541]

It may be a myth but I don’t think a debt card provides as much consumer protection as. Been a few years but I know there were a few months that my cc was apparently compromised

[@justvincenturb]

As always, great show and a great year Graham and Jack! This was a wonderful episode and I look forward to even more next year! Happy New Years!

[@Mr_New_Vegas_685]

That caller definitely didn’t “maliciously take what George said out of context”

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Oh it's pretty obvious that he was intentionally being a shitstirrer. He got exactly what he wanted. Fame and attention for his KZbin channel. Quite the marketing strategy.

[@jaydisberger1014]

@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 That's funny right there.

[@christinab9133]

❤❤❤ I just love these collabs and appreciate that you guys can have an intelligent conversation with very different opinions without it turning into an argument!!! Will watch every one of these that ever come out. Thank you!!

[@Grassology-vs1hn]

GK, when jack ask you that question about your peace that was your moment to tell them you have peace because of Christ.

[@devancox17]

Would love to see an episode with Jeremy or Andrei. Miss the old podcast with the gang

[@averynmitchell]

2:03 "An Apple card made of titanium because, for some reason, you think having a heavy, metal card will impress your friends. (If you really want to impress your friends with heavy metal, go blast some Metallica)". Bahaha I'm crying, I love this sense of humour. 😂😂😂

[@Courtney-Alice-Gargani]

That is true not to use a credit card but you still need to build a credit history if you want to buy a house when applying for a loan.

[@funtechu]

That's not entirely true, but there are some caveats. You can actually get a mortgage using a manual underwriting process which requires no credit history, however only a handful of lenders support that option. In my experience from a few years ago when I bought my house, I found that the mortgage brokers that supported manual underwriting were the equivalent of about a 1/4 percentage point higher than the cheapest lender that I found (which also didn't allow manual underwriting). In my mind, it's better to have more options, and that definitely played out in my case.

[@shaereub4450]

​@@funtechumanual underwrites cone with high interest rates compared to a high credit score that you could get from using and paying off a credit card. Why pay more than you need to? Just use a credit card for automatic bills and pay it off. Build credit to get a low interest rate (lower than manual underwrites).

[@jamisonmunn9215]

I haven't had a card in ten years. I don't really even have a credit score anymore and I mentioned trying to buy a house last month and lenders are tripping over themselves try to give me a home loan.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Only if you live in a backwards hellhole like the USA

[@thedude5040]

​@jamisonmunn9215 we built our first house and never knew my credit score until a banker told me at 28 years old. He said you could buy something way more expensive

[@tinyali7704]

Love the ice coffee boys, but “But are people broke??” Is a wild question haha. Yes, yes they are.

[@scottstowell7]

Imagine being the finance agent calling George Kamel trying to convince him to lease a car 😂🤣

[@LifehackAcademy]

Graham obviously didnt wait for any 401k or IRA to become a millionaire. He leveraged debt properly.

[@cadebearden8881]

Why did you cut the answer of “what if Macy stays home on the joint account?”

[@kailaleebabineau3962]

Graham was clearly uncomfortable. Touch too personal I guess

[@Edlouis564]

This guy is out here is saying “real estate won’t crash” yet telling people to exercise restraint, real estate won’t crash if people keep over extending and discarding his advice, how can people afford the average 400k home

[@danrockwell1883]

The more I listen, the more I’m on team Graham.

[@jellyrcw12]

Because?

[@striperkid]

I never disclose to a dealer if I'm financing, trading something in, or paying cash. I always negotiate the price of the vehicle, and that is it !

[@WeBeatMedicare6969]

That’s smart..I remember once I said I was going to use their finance dept so negotiated the best deal then when it was time to talk with finance Dept I said I changed my mind and will pay cash…I felt like I won the deal but who knows lol

[@flybyav8tor]

It’s really interesting how this subject has changed for me. I would have died on the no credit card hill 3 years ago, now I’m on track to put $1,000,000 a year on a credit card. This gets me $20k back a year. That $20k reinvested into our business will make an additional $6,000. So that is $26,000 a year and growing… we stick to our business budget and buy what we would have bought anyway. We use a version of profit 1st we always have the cash for the next month already in the bank so we are never in a position to not pay it off every month.

[@ValentinaVaVaVoom]

Now if only we could get politicians to have healthy, constructive conversations when they completely disagree. 😂😅. . I know, I know but I can dream right. ❤

[@LastMinuteGuess]

I love Graham and Jack but hearing Jack say "what's wrong with having a 30 year mortgage when I could make more money doing this other thing" gives me heart pain because I don't want to think about a mortgage for three decades. I don't want more money, I just want a roof over my head and peace.