PODCAST: Toxicity in the RWBY Fandom (Ft. Twiins iink)

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Twiins' Collab talking about the Fandom: • Confronting RWBY FNDM ...
This podcast is sort of a continuation of the discussion touched on in Twiins' Collab video. There was an awful lot more that I wanted to say that wouldn't fit into her video, so she's joined me to continue keep the discussion going!

[@capemorning2451]

"You'll figure it out" "You'll figure it out" Oh no

[@astereotypicalgamer1708]

You can tell how much Critter cares about someone by the level of affection in her voice when she tells them to shut up.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

lol, yes!

[@Eli-so8rk]

wow allison is really quiet this episode

[@miadaorerk1681]

today, we are all allison

[@edgarmorales9950]

Maybe the real Allison was the friends we made along the way

[@wvn9957]

I wonder why

[@Hashbrown1682]

My conspiracy theory, They are allison

[@yannaranegre6480]

Maybe they ate her. G_G

[@quakywacky8048]

Volume 8: Character assassinates Ironwood *Alarm goes off* Critter: What's that alarm? Twiins: It's the 'Roosterteeth did a fuckie wuckie' alarm, oh shit get down-

[@noahwiley2846]

Oh that's from proz skit!

[@bendavis9569]

It's easy to tell the two of you apart since your sister has a grumpy cat tone to her voice which is perfect for dry humor. Critter sounds much more bouncy and light

[@kennethfajardo9102]

Ben's talent, I guess.

[@Thelowestofthelowtiers]

Honestly,I thought her sister's channel was Critter's side channel.

[@Scaring-Crows]

I'm really glad you guys talked about this, every community has toxicity but RWBY seems to have such a loud group. When Twiins had to just say "Okay, no more RWBY content because people can't *not* be dicks about my opinions" I was really sad. Like I understood, and stayed to support the rest of her content, but the fact that she even had to stop talking about a show she enjoys enough to keep as her pfp made me so disappointed in the fandom

[@noahwiley2846]

Yeah I saw that, all because she talked about her opinions on the show it's just horrible.

[@warmachineroxlol]

I think a massive problem is when passion becomes an identity. I've seen fans that dedicate their entire online presence and personality to the show and CRWBY and when they hear criticism, they feel personally attacked. It reminds me of how insanely dedicated (though to a more extreme extent) Star Wars fans are.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

That's a problem with modern fandoms you can't just like something you have to make it your entire being.

[@LavenderRare]

"You can't bully someone into sharing your opinion." Love that quote! Will be using it from now on!

[@noahwiley2846]

That seems like what the fanatic part of the Fandom thinks which contradicts what they say they believe.

[@kickassreaction180]

So basically, RWBY fans are the tier below sports fans.

[@linked2dio26]

Wow thats a sentence I never thought I'd ever read an agree with.

[@OverlordMaldeus]

I dunno if I'd go that far. Have RWBY fans ever rioted over an episode they didn't like?

[@epicmarschmallow5049]

Yeah no, last I checked RWBY fans don't riot, assault people for supporting other teams and yell racial slurs at basically everyone (even players on teams they support). Football hooligans are kinda the absolute worst

[@kickassreaction180]

@@epicmarschmallow5049 Which is why I said the tier BELOW sports fans.

[@darkcat6530]

@@kickassreaction180 oh u rank toxic as top and less toxic as bottom

[@3Katapa]

"Audacity is free." I know she was talking about the program but that's a fucking quote.

[@UnicornofWar]

About halfway through now and this is all truth. I appreciate y'all trying to discuss this, cuz good lord it needs to be addressed. (also power to the Nora stans)

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Thank you! and honestly your video was one of the biggest inspirations for us when it came to really addressing this problem! Thank YOU! :)

[@Flora-j6t]

​@@thejudgmentalcritter6584so true.

[@Ethan-nl2wg]

I’m glad you guys and other rwby tubers are speaking out against the toxicity, because if left unchecked it can absolutely drive people away, I used to love discussing the last of us, but after 2 came out it’s been a toxic mess that I definitely had to leave for my own mental health, despite its problems I love rwby and discussing it, so hopefully we can do better

[@noahwiley2846]

How's the my hero academia Fandom if you've been there?

[@live_and_lol]

@@noahwiley2846 hell

[@warlock8593]

@@noahwiley2846 oh god , they are even more crazy than Itachi stans.

[@ThatKaitoDan]

Awww you guys are among my faves too and yay for Nora stanning! XD Already made my thoughts relatively known in the collab vid, but I really do hope the recent discussions help shine a light how so many of us need to remember that an opinion is not worth lashing out over. Like you guys said, we all like the show in our own way otherwise we wouldn't be involved in the community, we just need to better respect each other as people, even in indifference.

[@miadaorerk1681]

"to keep the community pure" is the weirdest cultish sounding thing i've heard in a while goddamn

[@doodlebug4360]

Welcome to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy

[@thepinksideofthings9191]

Fantastic podcast! The only thing I want to note is the reason many fans find Ironwood's portrayal ableist. You hear critics say Ironwood losing his arm is akin to him losing his humanity because Kerry literally said that during the Volume 7 episode 11 commentary at the end of the Ironwood vs. Watts fight. From the transcript: Kerry: Ironwood now losing.. another part of his humanity. Get it? Paula: (Chuckles). Kerry: Oh man. I was.. I lost it. Miles: (Laughs).

[@theshire9173]

There’s also the fact that they explain that Ironwood is so evil because of his semblance, which is basically a mental disorder like OCD or ADHD

[@garmadonthesensei59]

This! They basically piled all their disability representation onto his character, physical and mental, then decided to use it as a metaphor for Ironwood “losing his humanity”. Like, sorry if fans are upset that the writers made their Asian-coded, PTSD-ridden war veteran with 3 prosthetics (triple-amputee), and a uncontrollable semblance into an irredeemable monster 🙄

[@Birthday888]

@@garmadonthesensei59 And it's so frustrating because they could've had a similar storyline of Ironwood and RWBY being at odds with one another without turning Ironwood into an insane, irredeemable monster.

[@garmadonthesensei59]

@@Birthday888 100%. It could have been a really well-written story about two heroes trying to do the right thing, but instead dividing themselves in the process and then learning in the end, they have to come together to save humanity and stop their common enemy (*cough* Salem). That’s what I was expecting but guess we can’t have nice things 😂😂😂

[@iwanek4382]

People should learn that it is ok to like things regardless of their quality. Even if something is badly written or rushed or ill-considered it doesn't matter as long as YOU like it. In my opinion, having the ability to like something others can't is a very valuable skill. When someone points out the flaws in your favorite movie, game, or book they aren't doing it out of spite, they're just trying to be critical. Many RWBY fans take criticism very personally when they probably shouldn't. They take the show so dear to their hearts that when someone says something negative about it or criticizes it they feel like it's some kind of attack on them. You might like Sonic 06 or Rise of Skywalker, but you shouldn't get unreasonably upset when someone points out that they are flawed pieces of media. However when someone specifically makes fun of you for having a quote on quote "'shit taste"' then you have all the reason in the world to be upset.

[@gravenwolf6535]

They're too sensitive when it comes to criticisms or not liking their favorite ship it's that simple. Any type of criticism towards the show they take it too personal like a threat towards them. I thought the Naruto and Harry Potter fandom are toxic but this one, it takes the cake. They resolve with insulting and harassing critics or anyone that uses common sense because let's be real RWBY's writing is bad and it keeps getting worse with each volume. V7 and 8 were so bad, I ended up hating Team RWBY after 8. I'm glad they chose to release v9 next year because it will give them time to make the volume good and not rushed. Though I doubt the writing will get better if the writers haven't learned their lesson back then, they're not going to learn now.

[@lazycat3179]

“I’m glad they’re taking their time so they can produce something good and not rushed” that’s funny because that’s exactly what we said last year.

[@s.d5773]

Its the fact that i dont even think this channel can take critisicm either. If this video is anything to go by she literally only brung this up because she was throwing a hissy fit over comments on videos talking about how bad the show is.

[@williamharmon4039]

@@s.d5773 Have you seen the people calling her stupid and a terrible person or liar just for saying something negative about the show? I don't think it's a hissy fit to point out that she shouldn't have to put up with being treated like a villain by the more vocal and aggressive people on the internet for just having an opinion.

[@kingkilla777]

@@lazycat3179 and the year before and the year before and the year before

[@noahwiley2846]

Do you know anything about the my hero academia Fandom?

[@bdown08]

For some reason there is stigma in society around caring for anything. When you show emotion about something it means you CARE about it, and that's fine! This works for both positive and negative emotions

[@Azothic]

43:00 Nora stans rise up! Also I do think videos about aspects you feel positive can be as interesting as negative ones if you're still going at it in a critical manner, analysing why you like a character so much or why a scene/moment worked so well.

[@garmadonthesensei59]

The biggest problem for me is that most people can't separate fiction from reality. Like, I had multiple people call me a "boot-licker" just because I liked Ironwood and was justifiably saddened by the recent writing choices, and underlying (unintentional) ableist messages. And this was AFTER I outright said how Blake and Yang are my favorite ship, how I cosplayed as Yang before, and that I have a Penny sticker on my laptop. But NO. According to die-hard RWBY fans, I'm just a f*cist loving military obsessed sexist man (I'm a lesbian but ok) who's in love with a fictional character. Like, NO??? That's not how this works!!! People are allowed to like certain characters and then respectively criticize the way said character was written. This is why I left the Fandom. I used to LOVE this show and stand up to those who bashed it. But then Volume 8 happened, and dear God, I hated it. I started to slip into the HateDom, but that was incredibly toxic as well. BOTH sides of the fandom (RWDE and otherwise) are so unbearable, along with the show at this point, that I had to leave both behind. And I hate to say that to something that used to be one of my favorite shows. I'll still hardcore stan Bumblebee till the day I die, and rant about #IronwoodDeservedBetter whenever I get the chance, but honestly? It's exhausting and I think we're all better off without it. Just be respectful y'all. ✌️

[@skytiger215]

Yes, this pisses me off so much. I feel as though a lot of black LGBT+ people had problems with both the white fang and the LGBT+ representation in this show, but criticizing those aspects of the show get you labeled a bigot. I know there are racist, homophobic, transphobic critics who exist. But do these people not realize how counter productive it is to label the good-faith critics who have experience with these issues as stupid bigots when they are supporting a show and protecting creators that have botched these deep and sensitive topics beyond repair? The civil right's allegory is awful and poorly done, the LGBT+ representation is shallow, and the show is pretty sexist in how it portrays men as inherently abusive, disposable, and evil but the women as innocent. But this fandom is going to try and sit on its moral high ground and lecture us about ethics?

[@wilburforce8046]

@@skytiger215 I still think the white fang where originally supposed to be like some Grimm worshiping terrorist group similar to Cerberus from Mass effect. And then RT was like oooo racism.

[@robertfaulkkner5508]

Preach! #IronwoodDeservedBetter

[@skytiger215]

@@wilburforce8046 That actually sounds interesting, but it's even worse. I heard the white fang only exist because Blake was a cat girl first, because anime I guess, and they retroactively rewrote her into a fanuas fighting against racism.

[@KitsuneYojimbo]

That's one thing I find so annoying. With a fandom like the RWBY community has zero chill. And the internet just loves to misgender people because you're on the internet, thinking you're a guy just because you're on the internet.

[@KrazyKelor]

On the point of fandom tribalism, Leon of Renegade Cut has done a 4 part series of videos on the DCEU movies and fandom tribalism. He mentions the critical success of Wonder Woman compared with previous DC films and how a portion of the DC fandom became increasingly defensive about said previous movies, insisting WW somehow “proved” Man of Steel was a good movie retroactively. For anyone interested.

[@moukies]

I find it easy to tell you two apart, and you both never fail to make me laugh along with you whenever you guys do so. Also, I'm stealing "fucky-wucky" because that's comedic gold. A+ stuff!

[@nekoprankster2184]

When the Karen stuff was brought up around 57 minutes in - I went exactly through that twice! First it was a lot of popular subreddits like the revenge ones, malicious compliance, and entitled people; and even tho the eventual comeuppance were cathartic, the very fact that so much awfulness was happening to people was just beginning to weigh on me, especially since some of these stories had no revenge at all. So I pulled away. Some months later I got into a channel that covered neckbeard stories and after awhile had to pull back from that too because it was beginning to fuel paranoia and anger too. I feel like there's some psychology lesson in there somewhere - how we get drawn to bombastic tales of the worst of the worst to point of wearing ourselves down by continuously seeking it out - but I'm not really sure what the explanation could be.

[@KrazyKelor]

1:32:10 Blake and Yang are now the ‘In Case of Emergency Break Glass’ ship.

[@mightychlorophytegames7788]

Especially in Volume 9.

[@edgarmorales9950]

I will say, you guys did a great job with that video you all made with the RWBYtubers. I guarantee it will make an impact on the community and for the better.

[@icecontrol1]

Lol no it wont, it would have made a diference if they talked with each other rather than separated segments that dont even talk about the same thing

[@edgarmorales9950]

@@icecontrol1 Dude come on! This exactly what all of them are talking about! Stop with the whole cynicism and negativity and realize that the goal here for everyone at the end of the day is to make this community better.

[@icecontrol1]

@@edgarmorales9950 this doesn't disprove what i said the video really didn't talk about is as it was a bunch of disjointed segments

[@graveyardshift6691]

@@edgarmorales9950 Nope. He's actually right. It's not going to make any sort of impact or make anything better It dances around the actual problem with the White Knight Brigading which is the actual terminology for this 'Toxic Positivity'. It's great they want to address the issue but all of this is symptomatic for something that I recall one of those in the video outright refuted as 'not being the issue' when it's the root cause of the problem. I don't recall which one but I need to give them a swift backhand when find it again. This toxicity did not pop up out of a void. There is a parasite that no one in the compilation named that is sickening the fandom. To make matters worse, said parasite is being actively fed and encouraged not only by members of the fandom but by Rooster Teeth themselves. Until it is Named, Rooted Out, Killed, and Buried, nothing will change. The fandom will not heal. It will only continue to get sick and decay. Hope and Prayer is all good for keeping Morale up but unless you deal with the direct source, this isn't going to end. Gonna have to find time tomorrow to get a video together. I definitely need to take a swipe at FMF. (Though he was correct in his last second hilarious fadeout rant.)

[@dontmindme7684]

Dang, Allison’s mic was muted the whole time.

[@mikevarrecchia4264]

I enjoyed this podcast. I agreed with many of the points. And after about a year of watching both of your channels, I can honestly say that I am 99% sure this isn't just the same person having an elaborate and well written conversation with themself.

[@CoralPallet]

God I havent even finished all the videos I want to watch and now I have an hour long of more content, what a nice week : >

[@danielzakgaim2764]

1:08:36 Uzaki Khan, the legendary reactor. He got so exited when Ace was releveled to be Rodger's son his door fell on him.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Thank you!!!

[@noizdude8300]

Luv ur videos i think it real cool that so many rwbytubers are trying to fix the fandom and put awareness out there.

[@CoralPallet]

Alway appriciate when ytbrs talk about work stuff it is so insightful, despite the more awful topic. I also alway find a little dissonant the topic of your's/critter's/twiins toxicity as your channels were comfy zones to me just hear more about rwby in positive note. It helped me (well still helps) a lot on hard times and even if Im not into rwby anymore I like hearing your opinions. Sooo thank you :D and have a nice day whoever reads this, this is a curse to be upon you.

[@lillylane1698]

Kadhija, a commentator I enjoy that handles difficult topics , will usually end their videos with "...and remember that you can always change your mind. Because you can." I love that quote from them because usually we are headstrong in our opinions because sometimes we equate changing our opinions to being wrong.

[@luciabartoletti4564]

Hi you wonderful creatures!! Thanks for the video! I really like listening you two (three) when i draw.

[@Mr.Orangeishim]

You guys make me chuckle sometimes 😂

[@theshire9173]

0:14 I don't doubt that you're both beautiful, but I just think it's funny that by calling her twin sister beautiful, Critter is complimenting herself

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Heh, I never think about that kind of thing! Though I do think my sister is very beautiful, both on the outside and on the inside!

[@twiinsiink]

@@thejudgmentalcritter6584 My insides are quite dashing

[@theshire9173]

You two are the nicest sisters ever! I love hearing you talk to one another

[@silvereyes242]

@@thejudgmentalcritter6584 This may sound like a dumb question but are you two identical or non identical twins?

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

@@silvereyes242 We are not identical! We're fraternal twins! :)

[@coolman229]

Before I watched RWBY I said I wasn't interested because I was spoiled to Pyrrha's death. The response from the FNDM was to threaten and harass me for days claiming I was a monster for not watching it and that I couldn't have an opinion if I didn't watch it. Not a great way to convince people to watch the show. But eventually I did watch it and watched everything that was out at the time (Vol 4 was the newest season at the time) and said what I liked and didn't like. Then the fans spammed me with more hate and threatening messages and tried to brigade against me for criticizing anything in it. I was told to not watch it if I was going to be a hater. Don't watch it? You're a monster. Do watch it and have any criticisms? You're a monster. Don't watch it if you don't like it. You just can't win with those people.

[@rakedetheron2353]

I love both you and Twins content, hearing the good and bad from your reviews because learning both sides is important in my eyes. But as a confession after finally starting to follow your content more it was only a few weeks ago I realized you were sisters. For over a year I couldn’t tell if one had two accounts or it was just a coincidence.

[@nadieimportante1979]

I honestly love your videos, they are so entertaning and the way you talk really grabs my attention

[@colmkelly72]

I just have stopped interacting with fandoms in general for a good while, it's just exhausting interacting with ppl in "toxic" fandoms, I just want to enjoy a thing man. I really rwby in one go when a volume ends cuz I'm a massive Monty fan. You guys have some very good opinions and really care :) great podcast

[@thomasmitchell5641]

I always put Ur podcasts on when I go to sleep I'll tell u this u guys are very good at making me fall asleep (compliment) 😅😂

[@NEKOEVE]

"You're allowed to be human" *Sighs in penny*

[@seasustrai6547]

(1:14:46 and 1:28:36) ok but I really feel the need to vent about this very specific topic. The book was being called ableist because it implied Neo, a adult villain who has made her main purpose in life to kill a teenager, had DID. It goes back to Joker's talk that you never see non villain characters having this mental conditions, and RWBY in particular loves this trope considering the majority of it's disability representation are villains. As of right now the Hero-Villain ratio is 1 for 6, 3 for 6 if you decide to add two eldery side characters the show is clearly disinterested in using anymore. You put it perfectly when you said that RWBY tries to tackle big topics and it's important to analyse where it falters and succeeds in its execution. I had never noticed how bad the White Fang arc got until I watched some videos about it. While I don't think RWBY has handled this heavy concepts well, I'm glad it has given us a reason to learn how to do them better.

[@yoshihuo6911]

So I’m new to the RWBY community as well as both of your channels/content and I had no idea you were twin sisters until this video This whole time I thought you were just two completely different people that sound similar that were in the same community I’m laughing so hard right now 😂😂😂

[@fictionaldrew]

It was Salem's plan all along -- to turn the fans against each other! -- *TL;DR* I'm new to the RWBY fandom. I didn't like your Volume 8 discussion at first, but I'm grateful for what you had to say. Also, thanks for warning me about the fandom plus recommending somewhere to find positive show reviews! -- Longer version: -- On a more serious note, I'm utterly new to the RWBY fandom. I finished my first view of the whole series last week-end, and the moment I finished Volume 8, I asked KZbin what other folks were saying. RWBY was great, I loved it to bits, so what did other fans say?? -- All it showed me were the negative reviews, and each bad criticism discouraged the hell out of me. In fact, your season 8 review left the worst taste in my mouth, but that's not the point. -- I spent a couple days considering everyone's feedback: yours, hbomberguy's, a couple others. Since I'm a writer -- I'm revising my latest YA fantasy novel hoping to query literary agents one day -- negative comments mean a lot to me. They hurt, but I need them to improve my work. Bad reviews illuminate where I need to improve. In fact, a lot of the RWBY criticism suggested how I'll watch out for certain poor story decisions. -- The interesting thing is how many more of your videos since then pulled me in. After your Volume 8 review, for some reason, I wanted to hear more of what you had to say. I don't appreciate some of the things you've described. I disagree with a few of your comments here and there, except Radical Ed is the best character. But every new video and podcast episode shows how much more of a person you are than your reviews. I'm thankful for how comprehensive you are plus how much you have to say. -- On the other hand, I'm sorry to hear this is how aggressive the fandom's become. I'm not on reddit, so I'm not familiar with the discourse over there. I also haven't seen any RWBY media until this past September, when I began Volume 1. And so far, KZbin hasn't recommended any positive reviews for the show. Thanks for the recommendations, though. I'm gonna checked out Murder of Birds later. -- Peace.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Well, it might be because the majority of the fandom didn't like Volume 8 very much. So that might be why all you saw initially where the reviews that weren't in favor of it. But I am happy that you found enjoyment with it! Good luck!

[@Blizz3112]

There's a misconception of proving people wrong... objectively things can be proven wrong... and discussions can be fruitful to understand each other despite not agreeing with each other... That being said, I feel the biggest issue with fanbases is that they are disrespectful or even shun people who can be critical about a show whether that person is correct or not.

[@fishnewt1331]

0:34 Already did. Twiin’s has a lower pitch to her voice. It would be indistinguishable though if Critter lowered her pitch as well.

[@GoneRampant]

1:15:00 nah it was legit. Straight up quote from the Volume 7 commentary was that you're meant to read Ironwood sacrificing his arm as him losing his humanity.

[@Apotheosis]

Your point about youtube money is actually super funny to me because I remember having rwby editors trying to cancel me for making money out of content that isn't mine. They all acted like I was a billionaire and I was DRAINING and STEALING money directly from Roosterteeth's company or the company owning the songs, like I was some sort of super pirate who found the tip to hack multi billions companies. Fact is, like you said, you need to reach a certain point to get the money you earned (70€ in my case), the first time I reached it was after 8 months because only 1/15 of my videos can get the monetization. And once I got this amazing reward I worked for 8 months, I need to give 50% to my government, also they added a new youtube rules taking 24% more of what I earned with youtube. So to those crying about me being a billionaire, I'm sorry for getting 18,2€ every 2 to 4 months for the content I'm making on my free time, really I mean it (no). Commissions are a different thing, still have to pay 50% to my gov so still the same \o/ This fandom just really needs to grow up and know that, yes, the person you're raging about on twitter is a human being and have feelings (in general). Also that one heated reaction about an episode and that one preference about a character or a ship is a bit more deep than just hating or blindly loving the said thing. That's what being human is, people who don't know the reasons of someone else to like or dislike something shouldn't be labeled as anything before having a discussion, an explanation, just something ? I just wish to see this fandom actually getting mature in that sense and just thinking before speaking. And people should try to discuss with their "enemy" just once or twice for a change to know what they really mean and to understand why they love or hate something. I'm personally glad I did this with someone in this fandom who was my said "enemy"and he became someone I could die for now. So I think talking is a good solution instead of just... idk... raging I guess ? As always, sorry for the grammar o/ and keep up the good work Critter & Twiins :)

[@quartz9646]

I can tell who critter is by her gremlin giggle she'll do in her videos, I love it

[@josephbriggs2257]

Oh boy, time to crank out the popcorn.

[@pok3fan12]

I've watched RWBY for almost 2 years at this point. I'm really appreciative that I've found a lot of people and youtubers that while accepting that the show isn't perfect and acknowledge the flaws in it, love the show, really care about it, and are open to discussion

[@OneTaker]

Possible spoilers as this conversation happens near the end and has a Possible spoiler in it too so fair warning. If neo is selectively mute, and they are going to have her talk, it feels like they are going to try for what transformers prime did with Soundwave. Cos that was an awesome moment and made alot of fans go " ah ah! He said the thing he said in the G1 movie!". But atleast they set up that he was mute by choice early on. I feel it could work with Neo but I just don't trust the writers enough to pull it off, and it will likely be done to pull 8n viewers or increase view numbers like you guys said.

[@strawberryqueen0382]

Transformers Prime is top tier Transformers content.

[@joyin9852]

I don’t want them to have her talk tho because it feels like they are “fixing” another disabled character and then they’ll give her dialogue and the dialogue will be really bad. As a person with a hidden disability [it’s not visible] it really makes me upset when they keep “fixing” the disabled characters. Like Penny. If they do that to Neo.

[@kennethfajardo9102]

On one hand, it would be cool, since she clearly can make audible noises with a voice, but on the other, I'd like for her to stay mute.

[@superserg4763]

Personally, I've kinda gave up on the show, the writing really just couldn't be keep it together for me and the fandom was just super questionable with their behavior. But I do watch Critter and Twiins, since I just enjoy their content a lot. But this is A1, day 1, good shit! It was so cool to see the RWBYTubers come together and speak on the topic, and I'm glad their was a sense of direction established for the fandom to follow. Now, whether people within the fandom be a decent person or not, is up to them of course. But hey, at least it picks out the rotten eggs from the carton, much easier! Great stuff all around, keep up the great content!

[@DemonicRemption]

You two made me realize that it's harder to express positives on a subject than negatives because we don't know how to elaborate on the positives of a series. It can be done, it just takes practice.

[@YesNani]

I’ve been waiting for this ever since the Reddit went haywire

[@Da_caffeinated_insomniac]

This video seriously gives me a way better understanding of just how sorta toxic some of the fandom is and just where it can come from look at anything rwby on KZbin hell even just some KZbinrs who talk about it and eventually you will find someone calling toxic stuff and it’s kinda crazy something might be bad or good and a lot of it is opinion but there is just some toxic stuff or just opinions it’s way to Damn overwhelming people straight up saying this is bad or this is good from everything to do with rwby is bad and it makes you question what is the fandom and what is toxic or just a personal opinion and thats kinda depressing to think about

[@ProxyDoug]

Good talk, covered pretty much anything I would like to say. By the way, you can use blender to edit videos as well.

[@jaquezmurphy9539]

I love your content you've tought me so much about poor character development and general story telling thank you rwby really dose show what not to do, that a sincere compliment.

[@slushisimcambi2521]

Heat the tea boys and girls

[@romulusnuma116]

I've finally found someone who likes the great divide I am not alone any more

[@kamiladiaz1465]

You mean the song from Tinkerbell?? If not, nevermind...

[@wahajhaider6313]

Im still wondering if Twiins will start making RWBY videos again, I can understand 100% if she doesnt want to just something I'm curious about.

[@silvereyes242]

High-key would love you guys to do a podcast on the Avatar series or the disgusting disgrace of a movie.

[@Chiheb9]

Question: If you guys plan to do more of these, ever considered having it available on streaming platforms (Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc.)? I really like listening to these and would love to have easier access to them on the go!

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

I've looked into it! but I haven't quite figured it out yet. But don't worry, I'm trying! :)

[@Chiheb9]

@@thejudgmentalcritter6584 Gotcha!

[@arraneeno]

At current time of watching critter has made about $2 💃🏻💀

[@MinaRose2023]

Love the whole thing you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar so good

[@LooneyLei]

Holy beans I didn’t expect to hear Moriah Elizabeth on this channel of all places

[@thedaemonwolf1814]

So I'm 8:22 into this video, and I don't have time to finish watching it tonight, but I've got some things I wanted to go ahead and say. First of all, I _love_ seeing you and your sister interact. I watched your "Quizing Twiins on YoKai Watch" video back when it first uploaded, and the way you two get along just warms my heart (though that may partially be helped by your adorable critter avatars, which I know is obviously your thing but I kinda wish Twiins used hers in her videos, unless you, like, have a copyright on that or something, lol). This probably seems weird, especially since you're real people, but because my own siblings aren't quite so close-knit, I feel a special joy watching other sets of siblings who actually have a bond, especially since you two retain such a bond despite having very different opinions. Does that make sense? I feel like it won't really make sense to a lot of people. I hope it doesn't come off as creepy or anything... Secondly, I'm rather curious about something. How do you and Twiins feel about My Little Pony and the Brony community in general? Have either of you ever watched any of the shows? Twiins has brought up MLP several times back when she was doing RWBY reviews herself, but I can't help noticing that every reference she made, at least that I've seen, kinda cast Friendship Is Magic in a negative light, but more importantly, her references didn't really strike me as the words of somebody who's actually watched the show. I'm aware that the phrase "HaVe YoU eVeR wAtcHed tHe sHOw?!" is often thrown at people as an insult to their intelligence and treated as a way to dismiss their criticism, but context is important: I _do not_ mean to say that your sister is wrong to have a negative opinion of Friendship is Magic. If either, or both of you hate it, that's fine! And I know it's not the topic of this video in particular, this video is supposed to be about the toxicity of the RWBY FNDM, but this question has been on my mind since I first saw Twiins refer to Pinkie Pie as a "shallow caricature from a kids' show", and her mention of the MLP fandom in what little I've actually watched in this video brought it to the forefront since I've been reading a lot of fanfics lately and planning out a story of my own. You can ignore me if you want, it's ultimately not important, but I hope you do reply. I really am just sincerely curious.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

lol, no copyright! I just like to think that when people enter my KZbin "home" they become critters! I'm like a magical forest! :D Both me and Twiins watched MLP FiM for a while. I stopped at around season 4-ish (I think? It was when Twilight's library blew up and she had that big Dragon Ball Z fight with the centaur looking dude.) Twiins watched a little more than me, but I don't know if/when she stopped. (I think only 1 or 2 ore seasons tho). We both enjoyed the show, but we both gave up on it for a reason. While I can't speak for Twiins exactly, I do know she was never all that happy with Pinkie Pie as a character. Though with your example I think what the main thing was she was comparing Pinkie Pie's development to that of RWBY's characters. And a slice of life style show vs a long running epic is always going to have characters that are a little more basic.

[@thedaemonwolf1814]

That's cool! Kinda sounds like a fun setting for some kind of fantasy story. I saw your sister's Magical Girl May video about drawing herself, Allison, and you as Magical Girls, and she described the way you make the critter avatars. Making some kind of magical forest or maybe a village or something where people turn into colorful cross-breeds of their two favorite animals is... Well, I think some people would think I'm on drugs, but it's certainly got story potential! I see. Have to admit, I was kinda hoping you guys hadn't seen it so I could convert you into Pegasisters, lol. And yeah, that was Season 4 you stopped in. That's a little disappointing, I personally feel FiM only got better as time went on and it sounds like you both stopped during/just before my personal favorite seasons. But I understand. FiM just isn't to everyone's taste, and I'll fully admit Pinkie Pie... is kind of like marmite, in that you either love her or hate her. In my opinion, she's like Teddie from Persona 4-- her good episodes, her good moments, really shine in my eyes and paint a very loveable character, with a good heart, surprising depth, and infectious enthusiasm, but when she's handled poorly, which unfortunately happened pretty often, _especially_ in Season 4, it can be hard to see why anyone would want her as a friend, let alone tolerate her existence. Ultimately a person's opinion of her comes down to whether you can stand her bad moments/episodes enough to enjoy the good episodes with her and what your preferences in comedy and humor are. Myself, I find it pretty easy most of the time to just ignore the parts of something I don't like so I can enjoy the parts I do like, and Pinkie's humor usually works for me, at least when she's not being overplayed as dumb or childish. Although, I feel it's worth noting that I've always seen the Nora/Pinkie comparison as a compliment to RWBY. Though it admittedly can come off as insulting to someone who _doesn't_ like Pinkie's "usual" type of humor. And while normally your statement on slice-of-life vs long-running-epic would make sense, I'm... not entirely sure that applies to FiM and RWBY. At least with FiM characters, we _see_ them develop, sometimes in an unexpectedly realistic way, even if said development doesn't seem to stick until after the Season ends, whereas we often skip the actual _developing_ part of RWBY characters, though admittedly they usually maintain their development into the next episode, even if said development was... not the best. I'll fully admit to being pretty biased though. RWBY's main appeal to me was the awesome fights we got in the first three Volumes, and while I did also find RWBY funny even after Volume 3, I very much prefer my media to be light-hearted and cute over... whatever the heck RWBY's trying to be at this point. Furthering my bias, I love cute creatures, and MLP's Changelings have won my heart as the most adorable things in the multiverse, whereas RWBY's characters... are just humans. Humans in less-than-stylish outfits nowadays too.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

@@thedaemonwolf1814 I've been thinking about making a magical forest poster with all my critters from all my patrons on it! The reason why I stopped was because I was just getting really tired of seeing the mane 6 going through the same old story arcs over and over again. FlutterShy can only overcome her crippling shyness so many times before it starts to get repetitive. Tho I did still listen to some of the songs after season 4 and there's still some bangers in there! Teddie is a fantastic comparison!

[@thedaemonwolf1814]

@@thejudgmentalcritter6584 That would be super cute! On the subject of patrons, I've considered trying to pledge to either you or Twiins, but unfortunately my current circumstances mean I can't really afford to. If you go through with the poster idea, will you make it like the Smash Ultimate character artwork, where it updates every time you get a new $10 patron? Ehh, Fluttershy overcoming shyness and social awkwardness in all its various forms, and maybe Dash needing some humble pie every so often were the only story arcs that got all that repetitive from what I remember. Maybe Applejack had to retake some lessons on stubbornness, but those are all that I remember at the moment, and I'm fairly certain most (admittedly not all, but definitely most) of those repeats stopped around Season 6 or so, which... probably had to do with some of the new characters that were introduced who could learn those lessons instead, like Thorax and Ocellus with shyness. Of course, I also have a very distinct point of view. I'm almost always looking for the positive when it comes to things I care about, and admittedly I kinda flip-flop viewpoints at times if one is more optimistic and/or forgiving than the other. Like I sometimes appreciate unexpected realistic things in FiM, and I don't mind Fluttershy's repeated shyness lessons due to the variety of plotlines they wrote around it (and you have to admit there is a lot of variance in the scenarios, even if it's all ultimately the same root lesson), despite normally having a tiny bit of a vendetta against realism in fiction. It helps that I tend to focus on how the show actually allowed the characters to reach their goals and then kept telling stories with them afterwards, even if some of those lesson were still a little redundant (like Dash getting another humbling after becoming an actual Wonderbolt). Have to say, there are very few songs in Friendship is Magic that I don't like. The ones I remember most are mostly from the first three seasons, but I don't think the show ever really dropped the ball on songs. Equestria Girls also has some pretty good songs, especially Monday Blues, which I come back to whenever I need some cheering up or just wanna feel good at the start of the week, not unlike the Smile song.

[@bjoernsenp.5664]

Soo.. when are we going to get that Nora video?

[@Gunn3rGuru]

1:27:38 casual reminder, the Neo & Roman book comes out Tuesday.

[@en-voguepugh3472]

your laugh are how i distinguish you both.

[@armoredbluejay9364]

The only difference I can hear between them is the mic quality

[@codasinger5298]

Lol, I found y'all's channels separately and wondered if it was one person with two channels

[@TheAngryAsianAnimations]

I put this one Twiin's video but it's worth repeating again. "I don't always agree with my twin sister" ... Twiins iink ... Twins Inc ... You hear that explosion in the background? That was the sound of my mind being blown as I realize what I thought was one youtuber I casually watch with two channels...is actually two different people.

[@tygerrr_]

Thank you so much for addressing this issue. I was canceled on Twitter a long time ago by the FNDM for being "toxic"... I ended up being stalked and harassed for many months. Now, I lurk in the shadows making fun of the show with others.

[@tygerrr_]

I'm a twin too btw. It's really difficult trying not to sound like my sister lol

[@dah3071]

something oddly cute about seeing the critter spazzing out in the corner on the title card, needs to cut back on the sugar me thinks

[@havinearlong9055]

The thing about RWBY volume8, and why it's the worst, is because the company showed that they DON'T CARE. It's not that they are incapable, it's that they don't care to do better. During volume 4 and 5, there were excuses, the hop in animation engine, or they don't know how to portray a good character, etc. But look no further than the stupid twist in Ironwood's character. They've SHOWN how capable they are in portrayed him as one of the most successful character in the show, the reason ironwood became a stupid maniac is not because they failed, it's because they don't care about Ironwood's character, at all. They didn't think about "what would Ironwood do?", They thinking"What CAN we make Ironwood do in order to make the plot?" Same applies to killing Penny three times, there's absolutely no logic in the hecking process or her death, because they don't care about the greater story or the character themselve, they just munipulate them like puppets, and that's why volume 8 is so, bad. They don't care anymore, to them, the show is just a business project, and the fans are walking cash, that's why there's so many spin offs, and chibi, and new games right after volume 8, to make people keep putting money in.

[@epicmarschmallow5049]

When there's discourse about discourse, you know a community has a problem

[@PersianSlashuur]

Discussing RWBY has become as unfun and toxic as politics.

[@thephantomreaper5511]

I have watched alot of the two of your colabs and I still can't find who is talking..

[@zsomboregri758]

Didnt expect Twiins to ever show up in something RWBY related

[@daanscatozza]

keep in mind, rwby's fandom used to be one of the most inclusive in the v1-v3 days

[@kirbycat1977]

This has nothing to do with the toxicity, you guys mention that you wish you had something so passionate to be excited about when talking about the one piece guy falling out of his chair. Not saying you guys should be excited or anything but I was watching this podcast in the kitchen and my mom hears it and she said that both of you sound like you have such genuine laughter and care about what you guys talk about. She said you two can get really happy in such topics that she started to laugh when you guys laugh even though she had no idea what you guys were talking about. So even if you guys say you wish you had something to be passionate about, I'm thankful you spread your voices and made me more passionate on topics I normally found very frustrating, in this case rwby. And yes she could tell you two apart

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Ahhhh! Thank you, that's so sweet!!!

[@Froggsroxx]

19:00 some people (trolls) actively like to cause issues like this. It IS their hobby. There are a lot of 4chan users who will intentionally join fandom forums to cause internal strife. It happened with my little pony, I'm sure it's happening here too.

[@anthonysaylor8120]

Fair point, at least Birds won't pull a Hasan and leave his chair for half the video he's reacting to while leaving the webcam recording an EMPTY chair

[@vixshire3672]

You could highlight the model when they speak to give a clarification,least to those watching

[@blackpillsalad7296]

1:46 my favorite is Edward

[@dantehart8493]

I remember when I first bumped into your respective channels i thought it was one person doing two channels. You can imagine my surprise when i not only found out it was actually two separate people, but IDENTICAL TWINS?!

[@twiinsiink]

We're actually fraternal :)

[@purplespades9632]

How many times did Twiins explain the process of making her reviews?

[@fatherdezz6134]

I personally have never come across any toxic RWBY fans before and I hope never to come across any. Hearing about it is enough for me.

[@FelipeGamer70]

This episode made real the possibility of the twins actually being two women on top of es Chi other I’m a trench coat pretending to be the same person, and I can’t stop laughing about it

[@MythicMoonlight]

We pony folk were brainwashed with friendship is magic... but we do still have some bad people. We just seem to have an easier time recognizing they are bad and trying to deal with them without going at each others throats. Also we weren't ship baited non-stop and know how the characters end... which helps with that festering feature of fandom.

[@darkmajininuyasha]

I didn't know there was a jimmy neutron spin-off.

[@heartbreak1740]

How is the brony fandom going to have less fighting then the rwby fandom

[@kanden27]

If I watch reaction videos. I’ll watch group reaction videos. Where a while bunch of people are watching a show. Because it has more hype than one guy who may hype it up more than I think it is.

[@justagirlwithamustache9618]

Time to get my food

[@CrimsonWolfStudios]

before I found out you two were sisters I honestly thought you both were the same person lol. Didn't help that you both talk about similar stuff. I think there was probably a moment where I thought you just changed your channel name or something.

[@jonnyisadummy]

I have a question for critter…you on amino?

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

No, sorry! :)

[@williambryant3417]

I think the closes to toxic attitude from myself was a rant i posted about Marrow and how much he pissed me off from the perspective of an active service member. In general I didn't like season 7/8 with how it painted all military, enlisted or officer, as in the wrong, bad, or blind loyalist. But the good heroic one rebels against authority. But at the end of the day, its a show and I may disagree with it. But that's their liberty and freedom of their show.

[@boopsanddabz8702]

Lmfao omg “Audacity is free”

[@Ne0politan137]

5:10 It kinda sucks, but the reality is that the majority of fandoms will have a bad side, whether it might be a large or small amount of people, I feel like there will be a bad side. I feel like fans in general might have a bad side to them as well. (No I am not saying that all fans of a franchise are bad/bad people)