Aeon Trespass: Odyssey Early Review!

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[@keeop]

Fantastic video. THIS is what quality boardgame content looks like.

[@beakerkell]

Definitely jumping in on the Sins of Herakles all-in! Loving your review so far!

[@Syko1985]

Brilliant review. This game really is something special.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you! :)

[@cyder534]

This is a masterpiece complimenting a masterpiece. Well done, Michael!

[@stevie3156]

+1, on point in

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much Mark! Glad you liked the video :)

[@cyder534]

@@TheKingofAverage By the way, Studium is up on KS on the 30th of May!

[@seansmith2650]

Great video. Sadly this game is too much for even me. I play solo primarily and this seems way too fidly. I value modularity and ease of setup these days

[@Ziplomatic007]

Am I the only one that finds these super XL size models and grotesque, Salvador Dali-like monsters a complete turn-off? How am I going to put that on my shelf and explain to someone what that monster is? I don't understand the appeal of 12" plastic models and the trend of making monsters anatomically illogical. I understand that it is fantasy, but this is way over the top for my tastes. Am I alone in thinking this? It seems the manufacturers offer us this, and we buy it, so they are stuck in the rut of thinking this is the ONLY way to market to us.

[@Beppsta]

Interesting drama about ITU and Quackalope. I hope your morals never become compromised like his…

[@andreikoenig5718]

I would love to have another video from you with your thoughts comparing it to KDM! Kdm is my#1 game and I have a feeling I might all-in into ATO! I don't know when I will find the time to play through it though....

[@derekofbaltimore]

What is kdm?

[@andreikoenig5718]

@@derekofbaltimore kingdom death monster. The "original" boss battler that ATO borrowed a ton of mechanics from

[@derekofbaltimore]

@@andreikoenig5718 ok got it

[@simonherrmann7307]

No matter how good this game is, there is one thing that is just a huge NO for me. FOMO and I feel it here more than in any other big CMON game. The combination of game size, a sh*t load of various kickstarter exclusive expansions (I miss the time when expansion was an add for a complete game developed 2 years or so after the core game), price increase over time (and we are not talking about 10%, we're talking about 100%). The game might be good, but in my opinion, this is just not the way games should be made. ITU is becoming a new CMON for me, the only difference is that their games can actually be (under certain circumstances) enjoyable. Sorry for being pessimistic, I just felt like I need to say this.

[@Fenraellis]

I'm not a fan of the Fates Pledge situation, because I think they could have done a 48-hour lockout (which I don't really like either, just make a "Pledge during the campaign gives you something free, that has a cost in the pledge manager" thing, rather than only rewarding people who backed early) discount pledge, rather than forcing themselves to add extra sets of 500~1000 count special pledges. Also, inevitably, some people will accidentally switch off of that pledge for an "All-In," rather than adding Add-Ons, or something, then lose the discount, and complain about it. It's going to happen. When you mean the Kickstarter exclusive expansions, do you mean the bonus Titans? They're a cost-inefficient way to add extra support to the project, and get some additional options in-game, on top of the wealth of existing options (although they are certainly competitive with existing Titans, they are not outright better). Any other Add-Ons are purely cosmetic, like Luxury Tiles, Mat, and Godform Miniatures. Absolutely none of the Add-Ons are mandatory, or even relatively important, for gameplay. If you mean the Cycle 4/5 Expansion, then yes, that's actually an Expansion, but it's priced fairly to the Core game price, and has a ton of content. Also, from everything they've said, I expect it to ultimately be just as available as the Cycle 1-3 box is or isn't. Oh, I suppose there was Onward Odyssey, but considering that's provided as a PDF in advance of the Wave 2 physical materials, I imagine they can easily sell that on their website once everything is all said and done. All in all, that's a bit tricky, but I guess I can see the Add-Ons being a "FOMO" element, by the nature of them being (for now, at least) limited to the Kickstarter campaigns. As for the price, the original campaign's 1-3 Cycle Core Game Pledge price of $129 was very much produced at a loss. Consider almost any other game of a similar price, and the amount of quality content that was included in that box was prodigious. $300 is a fair price relative to competitors. I would hazard to guess that the Summer box for Sins of Herakles might be priced as a loss leader partially, as well, but it's closer to a late-Cycle in contents, so maybe the price is about right, when factoring in all of the core game components included, like a game board, and cross-Seasons cards like Trauma base decks (not counting Season-specific cards), etc.

[@simonherrmann7307]

@@Fenraellis About the exclusivity of the expansions, I was mainky thinking about those big gameplay ones (cycle 4 and 5, adsitional kingdoms in KF, more seasons for sisns of Herakles). I don’t like the idea of releasing a game (which alone should feel like a complete experience) and immediately creating 2 to 3 massive gameplay expansions. It inevitably leads me to a question: ,,what is the complete game then”. This is not a feeling I get from games like Spirit Island (also originally a crowdfunding game, but had developed over time-core game, than one big expansion and now another), which developed over time.

[@Fenraellis]

@@simonherrmann7307 That's completely fair, and one of my continuing least favorite parts of crowdfunding. I would greatly prefer developers to release the completed Core game first, THEN if it was received well, due a Reprint + Expansion. Of course, the reality of sorts, is that the Expansion would have always had to have been in the works (which you should have a relatively completed concept, if not outright nearly completed product, available when launching a campaign) after the main game had completed development, or else they would be twiddling their thumbs while they wait for the community's response to their initial game. I can definitely feel the notion that many games are not "complete" without the Expansions, and thus the Expansions are not really "optional" content in the practical sense. Of course, many of those games are fine games without the Expansions, but actually become good games with them, and that's... a problem, of sorts. Similar to the "Was this DLC cut content for money, or was it actually developed after the Core game?" question for video games. There are also those games where the Expansions are intended to be mixed into the Core game, and can be done right from the beginning, and might significantly alter the experience as a result. So much so that they become the "only way the game is played". There are also plenty of games with things like having the full Core game for $100, then a single character Expansion for $15 (ITU does this, too, with the extra Titans!). There is no world in which that extra character is worth almost 1/6th of the full Core game. Many games sell the Core game at a loss, or minimal profit, because they know they will make significant profit off of Expansion boxes. It's not dissimilar to the DLC content of many video games. ----- As far as ATO is concerned, most people that have completed it have agreed that each of the three Cycles had a satisfying conclusion, with some threads to pursue to go further (which the following Cycles do continue off of some of those threads). The Expansions do expand the story, so I can fully agree they feel mandatory to me, too, for such a narrative heavy game. The Summer box for Sins of Herakles is also intended to be able to be played by itself, and the same is true for the Core of Kingdoms Forlorn. I can honestly see both games being a satisfying experience on their own. Both games are touted for their modular nature, though, so the additional Seasons and Kingdoms (and Knights!), respectively while far less important narrative wise as the ATO Expansion Cycles, could easily be argued as being just as important for the actual heart and scope of their respective games. ----- So, yeah, I get where you're coming from, and agree that ITU isn't innocent here. I'm fortunate that I have been able to play and enjoy ATO, and also have the financial wherewithal that I can risk the pledge. I fully admit that while I don't back many games, I almost always pick up the "Gameplay All-In" equivalent pledge. It hasn't been worth it sometimes, but there have certainly been some expanded content that made an appreciable difference to the game. Purely cosmetic Add-Ons I generally skip.

[@dayz112]

seems a quite interesting game, but too much time to spent on a game, it's not for me. Still, seems really a epic game

[@roodkaak771]

damn, you make me hesitate buying the game after all.

[@anddav40]

KDM is hips plastic vs this which is cheap PVC. Should be half the price of kdm. Way overpriced.

[@TheKingofAverage]

It's a PVC/ABS mix, which changes the price a lot, and very much multipart. Modern KDM is glorious, but core box KDM is 2015 minis and older and it shows, very static and plain comparatively. Also much smaller (minus the phoenix). I'm not saying AT:O or KDM are a bad deal (I bought both) - but for a more modern and dynamic and larger set of minis, along with all of the cards and such as well still, this is still very good I think. Looking forward to Gambler's Chest!

[@alexkgamingworld8683]

WOOOHOOOO! Genuine Review. You nailed it on the head. That are the reasons why if i could keep only one of my games it would be AT:O. Can´t wait to get my hands on cycle 4+5 and Twelve Sins of Heracles. Finally one reviewer more that really took his time to look at the game and make a fair and thought through review. !!!!!!Thank you very much for taking your time with it!!!!!!!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Sorry it's late! :) But glad you liked it in the end :)

[@toddferrullo1871]

I agree with your assessment about the sprawl of this game. Between that and the simply huge time requirements for some 700+ hours of gameplay, I just cannot see investing in this game knowing the vast majority of the content will not ever see the table. I simply have too many big campaign games to get to the table. Besides, I went all-in on Kingdoms Forlorn from them and will likely still be playing that one when this one would show up.

[@1AngelAlita]

I'm glad I avoided this behemoth. I actually have time to play other games.. ;) Besides, as a painter these minis don't look like something I'd like to paint....

[@TheKingofAverage]

hah! Good deal then :D

[@SamS-cb5ep]

This might be the best game ever made

[@alexkgamingworld8683]

You are so right about that.

[@korgunaard4991]

Best game I have ever played. It is not without its faults, for sure, but it has dethroned KDM for me. Excellent review good sir!

[@enricodenardi8957]

Couldn‘t agree more. Best bord game experience, but a table hog with a plethora of key words. But the most fun I ever had with a coop campaign game

[@jankenmaster2508]

Dear Michael, thank you for your video. I late pledged the ATO base game last autumn days before the pledge manager was finally closed for it and haven't played it once. Last spring I all-ined Kingdoms Forlorn and a few days ago bought the ATO expansion, again, the day the PM was closing. What I see now makes me nervous. You also said it in one of your videos a few months ago. It is unclear if Into The Unknown is already spinning plates. Obviously they delivered the ATO base game at the end of last year. But they have to deliver the expansion (probably at the end of this year?) and Kingdoms Forlorn both wave 1 and 2 (are the time estimations still January 2024 and October 2024?). They also teasered a couple of times their third project, V3, when I recall it correctly. Every game bigger than the previous one, I assume. What I see in this campaign (at this moment) is: - 165 backers pledged the ATO base game - 123 backers pledged the complete ATO and the TSOH base game Until this point, this is not much money made with the reprint which is one of the easiest ways to make money. Boardcubator's Project L is the latest example of this. The new TSOH all-in is pledged by - 1000 backers (Fates pledge), including myself at this point - 500 backers (Fates second pledge) - 1000 backers (Fates final pledge) - 791 backers (Fates paracausal pledge) and only 737 backers pledge the TSOH base game pledge, estimated delivery March 2025. So basically about 67 % of the people are backing the next ultra huge game all-in, which should also be delivered in March 2025? I highly doubt they will release all four seasons at the same time in Q1/25. You often said that making such big games is a high risk with assumingly low profit but people fuel this with their behaviour. To me it looks like this here is no different. Yesterday I backed the Fates pledge out of FOMO because it was almost already sold out but I assume I will go down to the Herakles pledge and watch what happens the next couple of months/years. Which means probably I'll have to pay more money later if I come to the conclusion to go all-in again but this seems to be the more responsible move right now with companies shutting down left and right. What do you think? Sincerly Yours jankenmaster

[@BbBb-zx6sx]

My favorite game is the one I just received. Whatever it is.

[@TheKingofAverage]

hahaha we've all been there man :D

[@nighthunterz00z45]

Wow, not your typical video or style. It’s cool to see you be truly excited about a game and expounding on the cool, unique and interesting mechanics you like about the game. Well done!! I’d love to see you do other videos like this on occasion, talking about games that truly impress you! 🎉

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much for the feedback! Makes the extra time I put into this worth it I think, and I hope to keep improving :) You'll still get plenty of unscripted me, but for reviews I'm hoping to take it a bit more in this direction I think :)

[@nekochen]

Why do we play board game, for some it's the human interaction... what human interaction? All my friends hate board game. 🤣 Damn that sounds so lonely haha

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha, stupid friends :D What do they know?! :D

[@jasonpadgett1333]

You did a great job describing what I love so much about this game, without hiding the parts that make this game such a tough commitment to keep up with. Great job.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much :) It's really hard to say what is essentially a feeling, but I hope I helped convey the message at least somewhat okay :)

[@lotterwinner6474]

The game is amazing and the company appears to be amazing as well. They come across genuine and hardworking. There is no radio silence from this group.

[@Thomas-kx9op]

Great review (as always) for an amazing game! It hasn't left my table since I started playing it. My only critique is the all white box. 😊

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha I hate the white box too. The inner portion is actually awesome! Wish the lid was like that :)

[@iainlangley7219]

I love this game. but it was originally quite a beast to set up. now it takes 10 min from box to table and is such and easy choice. map goes into an old photo album, so they are held in place in big a4 squares, tech cards are inside loose sleeves with the cards that they can make (turned so you can see what you can make if you have it and turned to the requirements side if its a project or undiscovered), boss cards are separated by dividers (as are others), one of the fantastic rules references on BGG printed for easy keyword and round tracking. Argo sheet and player sheets are laminated, and a players stuff is in one bag each. tokens are in boxes with lids that can be easily removed. would definitely recommend looking up solutions like this or that others have done to streamline the admin. After that it becomes one of the easiest games to get to the table I own.

[@jasonmoodley4341]

This went instantly to my number one, I am so happy I got the 5 cycle at its cheapest price. This makes me very excited for my Kingdoms Forlorn all-in!

[@TheKingofAverage]

I looked back and can hardly believe we paid $130 for Cycles 1-3 O.o

[@EricWoning]

Yeah - i agree, it's not a good game... it's a great game. And LOVE the new way of doing this - short but enough depth + interesting pics. BUT - what is all this grey I see????

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha I like to play games more than paint them, so sue me :P

[@MayBlaze0]

Man, this looks so good. But between Middara's 300+ hrs of content and Stormsunder all in, I will genuinely never have time for this beast. Wish I did though.

[@37stu]

If they can pull this off in a fantasy setting while making it a bit simpler, kingdom forlorn is going to be fantastic. @TheKingofAverage - what do you think about the potential for KF after seeing the development arc of Aeon Trespass Odyssey?

[@mtga]

Odysseus Pledge says "unlocked stretch goals and daily unlocked free content.", however as it stands now you only get 1, no matter if they get 1 or 10 millions.

[@FreaKlNG]

@kingofaverage, I would absolutely love a followup to this in a few months.

[@joevespaziani]

Nice work my friend. As tempting as you make this (to me at least) - I’ve invested so much in KDM over the years…. I can only pack one huge game on my donkey when society falls this summer : )

[@coffeespoonman7931]

Don't misunderstand Michael - but did you write this review yourself? 😅 It's just so much more structured and eloquent than your normal rambling style. 😂 I get it. This game is so brilliant that I spent hours myself, after finishing cycle I, crafting a review that could do it justice. Just wanted to say that, in addition to your normal news videos and occasional rants, I'd love to see more content like this from you - carefully drafted reviews with more principled camera work.

[@TheKingofAverage]

hah! Thank you very much :) I think often I am a bit smarter than I sound :P I really enjoy the casual discussion type stuff and you'll see my news videos remain as such, but I wanted to put more effort/professionalism into my reviews as I kept forgetting to even mention whole points I wanted to make and such in them. What I've learned though is that even with this new style you still have to pick and choose what you discuss (I didn't want it to be a 50 minute review like I've done before) - so even if I noted things (like the Primodial Routines as a small example) they can be left on the "cutting room floor" so to speak :) Anyway, really appreciate the feedback thank you! Helps make the extra time worthwhile.

[@coffeespoonman7931]

@@TheKingofAverage honestly, I think you got it at right about the perfect length. I love Michael Kelley's 5 in 5 stuff - I always watch every single one of those - but the timing doesn't leave much room for embellishment or observations about the genre or hobby in general. This was a bit more than 15 mins, so perfect. Any longer and I'd start skipping around. Definitely hope to see more like this in the future (not replacing your other types of content!)

[@jgarettc13]

I need to sell my MTG boxes and go all in all in.

[@katarzynakubok1534]

A:TO just another great polish game design :) So so many from Poland :D

[@FranciscoConradoKaefe]

That's a classy and epic review!

[@RicardoMSAndrade]

I feel that Gamefound's strech pay would help this campaing to be even bigger than it will end up being. I would consider getting everything, or almost everything if that was available.

[@nifarious]

The dining table isnt enough...well crap.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Not unless you're okay re-setting up the phases. You totally can of course, just know you'll need to do that.

[@darkside2329]

It would be helpful to make note of the size of your 'tables' that you feel are necessary.

[@whytemeet]

Favorite game? Wow! I'd love to see a top 100 from you, or at least a top 10.

[@jabbawookeez01]

if you had to choose only 1 to go in... would you get AT:O or the 4 seasons? 🧐

[@Ultr4l0f]

I wish I had time (and extra table😅) to realy play this game

[@Rodfather_Prime]

I was playing this with Tom Vasel. Got about 16 hours in. I’ve been on the fence due to the price….you pushed me over the edge.😑 630$ later I am sitting here wondering if I am a complete idiot 🤣 I’m on the Dice Tower 36 hour marathon tomorrow, I’ll let Tom know that I pulled the trigger.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Have fun! :D The way I see it, for myself at least, is if it's a game I know I'll actually get play time in with, it makes most prices worth it. I hate the money wasted on a shelf sitter far more than paying a lot for a game I'll actually play. That's just me of course, but that tends to be where my head's at with such things.

[@MichaelGaskin]

Did you fighting the same boss over and over get old?

[@ModularLanding]

Excellent review! Short and to the point. I’m excited to receive this (whenever it comes) and it looks like my kind of game. Glad you’re enjoying this one with your family. Keep up the great work!

[@joncarr5545]

Good overview with excellent footage!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much! Appreciate the feedback, it helps know the extra time was worthwhile :)

[@oliverlam5208]

Excellent review and content. Thank you 👍

[@MaterialSquid]

i like your review style

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much! Hope the video helped :)

[@johncurry7246]

Stellar video! Excited for TSoH.

[@sail8614]

This review is insane. So well done in every aspect. And your voice is perfect for this! 10/10

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much! I am glad you liked it :)

[@bruvkek4629]

this is a pc game if computers didn't exist

[@gabrielwannes9220]

Awesome review. With all the money I was thinking of using for sankokushin im in for the Fates pledge with all new seasons for Sins of Herakles instead. Gonna be fantastic.

[@TheKingofAverage]

NICE! :D

[@GrandShi]

Great early review. How has it been for you since then, same, better, worse?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I've enjoyed every moment of it. I have it on pause though until we get the binder to organize it all :D

[@sebastienvivas9319]

My new favorite game as well!

[@alessandroloru7786]

Is it better then oathsworn?

[@godhenry007]

How does the game scale with player count? Are you forced to play multiple characters if you have a smaller player count?

[@Fenraellis]

I would recommend two to three players max. While you don't go into battles planning for it, it can certainly happen that one of your four Titan ends up, due to bad luck, getting taken out of the fight within only one to three rounds of combat. Sometimes unexpectedly easily. With three players, the third player can pick up the slack on the 'extra' Titan. With two players, you each have two Titans, so losing one is unfortunate, but means you're still fighting. You can certainly play with four people, and someone with a dead Titan can still contribute to tactical discussions, or even fully manage the Primordial, so everyone else can focus on their Titans, but it takes a certain mindset, which unfortunately a lot of people lack, to not feel bored, or otherwise outside of the game, if "your character" died. As a result, I would love to play with four people, and it can be awesome to share the highs and lows with a larger group, but for most groups I wouldn't recommend more than one to three players.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Just to add to this: You always start out playing with 4 titans. Always. If you play solo you are playing as all 4.

[@zerosdeath]

Come on Mike, get a better phone! JK, this is exactly the type of review I like. TY! All-in.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Right?! Stupid work phone makes buying my own a hard sell, even if it is a poop one :D

[@zerosdeath]

@@TheKingofAverage Pfftt Mr. FancyPannts has Dev money, you got this. Joking aside. Would you consider doing a comparsison video to KDM?

[@albertkirvesmaki2352]

Can we get a ato vs. Kf comparison video. You said ato is the best game you've ever played after the prototype. Did kf fall short on that and how/ why? Do i need this if i pledged hefty on kf?

[@jcapo5]

Do I even get this. It looks amazing. But I backed oathsworn and kingdom forlorn. Is this game really worth it?

[@svenwasberg7704]

I backed it day one. That said, after all the drama with Petersen Games and Mythic Games I am a bit worried that Into the Unknown is having to many big projects at the same time. We only have half of the first campaign and nothing of Kingdoms Forlorn.

[@yingling69]

Great video and review, KOA! Sadly, this game would sit on top of my Kallax, taunt me with its grandeur, and remained largely unplayed. Plus, at the price point for the base game, or rather the Mortal pledge because I’m neurotic and want all of it, I can do some significant expansion in my garden, buy more freedom seeds, and further prepare for the end times 😜. It’s a sad state of affairs to view something this amazing as extremely frivolous (not meant as a dig towards anyone able to get it!) and wonder how world events may affect if / when it would arrive or if that money would have been better spent elsewhere.

[@CheddahSlammer]

Haven't gotten it to the table yet, but still going all in on the new stuff lol. Currently playing Oathsworne with my group, were on Chapter 9, once its finished were planning on to a new Narrative Campaign game. Choices are Aeon Trespass, Etherfields Wave 2, Gloomhaven forgotten circles, Chronicles of Drunagor, Sheol, Stars of Akaros, Isofarian Guard, Tanarus Adventures, and Sleeping Gods. While personally I would love to go to Aeon Trespass Next, I know my group will probably pick something else just because were playing a boss battler right now, and because their intimidated by Aeon Trespass. I still want to play this so bad.

[@veljkoagatonovic4929]

Subscribed and liked: You present in calm manner, it is easy to follow your chain of thoughts and way you narrate is very pleasant to listen to. 😊

[@siriactuallysara]

Also I would not have this game if it wasn’t for your reviews and constantly making it your number 1 KS game you are looking forward to getting.

[@JM32JM32]

is it like w/ Tainted Grail Kings of Ruin, where Sins of Herakles will be a bit more streamlined in some respects to make it a more accessible experience?

[@bernardorippe7024]

Wait what? are talking here about KD....? (Joke) Amazing Review!

[@darcsonalbuquerque4001]

How's the replay factor? KDM is not story driven, it's easy to replay without boring repetitions. How does this work for Aeon Trespass?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I almost spoke about this actually, but felt I shouldn't officially in an early review. Currently I'm running two games, one solo and one with my family. We are in completely different parts of the map and have wholly different mnenos cards, allies, etc so at least for now it's certainly supporting multiple run throughs if desired. After 300hours will it be worth another 300? Unsure completely. It's a mix between emergent gameplay that KDM provides and more structured storytelling so depends on how much you're okay with some things being the same with others being different I think :)

[@darcsonalbuquerque4001]

@The King of Average thanks for the reply. I am really keen to get it, but afraid of giving it a single play through and that's it. I've got easily 1200+ hours of kdm, and I keep using different strategies. If aeon gives that replayability, it will be fantastic

[@Fenraellis]

@@darcsonalbuquerque4001 For what it's worth, the Sins of Herakles content has a degree of cross-compatibility with the main ATO, that provides some form of access to the Primordials and equipment of the other game. This would increase replayability of future playthroughs, relative to the Core game.

[@darcsonalbuquerque4001]

@Fenraellis that sounds cool. Do you know how much the story branches? I'm mainly afraid of just go through the same adventure every time. Like chronicles of Drunagor. Great game but it just cannot be replayed

[@zenster1097]

Wow. Favorite game? Gotta watch Very different review style. No more longer reviews and KoA at the table?

[@Carcharothification]

This was a great video, thank you. Unfortunately I do not have the money to buy this, but it will be on a future list somewhere.

[@gasa5251]

great review ... i made up the tuck boxes from bgg, they are brilliant and i have no problem finding cards.

[@eriksjogren800]

Thanks

[@alexpartenopei1021]

I did mot back the game as it is far too big for us but was aware of it from the beginning before the first KS campaign. I am so hapoy it is such a success as the designer passion for his art was evident from the beginning and now his vision is being realized and then some! Bravo!

[@davidseim4106]

Have it. Haven't played it yet. Oathsworn and Frosthaven came in sooner. Can't wait to get it in the table!

[@tgeorgom]

Best introduction EVER, very good description of the AT:O and the reasons why it is a great game, and also covering all the nuisances

[@marktodd2400]

The game looks fantastic. The first printing with boat appeals a little more than your character transforming. But with a young family i don't think i can commit to tables to this for long periods of time.

[@Gauweezy]

First of all, awesome video! I'm excited to break out ATO. For now, I just backed the summer edition Sins of Herakles. I'll probably wait for the pm for more. Man what happened to Apex?!? 3 hours and still not funded? This looks like a retail pickup... We know you did some consulting for them. What happened? If you're able to tell. Why the dioramas? Excessive plastic for really no reason. That should be removed for sure make it a premium add on. The only exclusive is a Loba pose. They should have made this the founders edition or something like that. The price is not so bad for an all-in gameplay but I just can't get the past of the wasted dioramas. And obviously not offering the full roster as currently available on the game. I know they're trying to make this like the new organized play phenomenon. It just seems some decisions are lacking or just missed.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah I really need to look into Apex more. Will certainly share in a video! I didn't do any consulting for them however, it was for Nemesis Games and Reggie Games :)

[@arttavoularis3855]

300 + hours just for 3 cycles on Odyssey = 1 to 2 years of playing one game if you play 3-5 hours per week. Nice game, great production but there are so many other great games out there. By the way I enjoyed the review style for this video, well done KoA! Question? Can you just plat the new 12 sins of Herakles Summer only game? That one game has 150 + hours of play.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yes you can, just like the cycles. While the form a whole story, they are independent as well so the only things really driving the push to get them all is their sales/savings, and our own desire to have it all :)

[@bl4ckfl4g]

This is also my favorite game. Can’t wait until wave 2

[@siriactuallysara]

I got half through cycle 1 and yes this game is a 10. But I’m thinking oathsworn may be better, but I still have to play that to make sure. Which game do you think is better. Of course both are 10s.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Really happy to hear you are enjoying it! :)

[@lucky6666]

Is 4 foot by 8 foot big enough?

[@goldsmeeth2771]

Yes, don't mind more though

[@Thomas-kx9op]

I play on a 4 x 4, but must swap between the map and the mat.

[@philliplegrand384]

More than enough. I play on a 4 x 6 with everything set up

[@TheKingofAverage]

It really depends on how much you're willing to put up with, but 8 foot is pretty decent but 4 foot is cutting it close if you want to put your character cards and such on the short sides with the battle board. The main issue I found is not so much setting up the map and battle, but over time you get quite a few cards added , your tech cards get larger, etc. And since you need to grab stuff out of the box a lot unless it's on a side table easily accessed you tend to have those decks on the table as well. So it's really just how comfortable you are with upkeep. Eventually that map will get too large pretty much no matter what. Over the course of the game your player area, your tech, your map, it all grows. The more table space you have the less often you have to condense/reduce that. But yeah, by the time you're really into the campaign and you have the story book, box, various decks, a full large tech tree, various allies, equipment, mnenos cards, large map, story cards, rulebook for reference, etc it gets quite large. The app helps a bit, but it certainly doesn't track everything.

[@lucky6666]

Nice, it's a D&D table so has pull out table space players can use for cards.

[@gaetanomarzulli5463]

Agree with Mark: this is a masterpiece complimenting a masterpiece

[@CadorYT]

the video is very good! awesome sound, great camera shots! but i will have to say. i really like your 50 min videos where you just talk unscripted :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha yeah I hear ya :D I'm still deciding on which to do really, though I do like the idea of having my reviews be a bit more...professional haha :) Still will be unscripted in news, unboxing, etc. regardless :)

[@MichaelEckl]

I am 4 sessions in now with a group of 4 people (each session between 5 and 9 hours). It is an amazing game. Takes a long time to learn but thats totally worth it. We play it in the club house of our board gaming club and we need 2 tables to play it. With only 1 table it would be a PITA. But the story... sooooo good!

[@TheKingofAverage]

It really is great :D

[@LeeroyPorkins]

HEROQUEST IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER MADE!

[@Archaoen]

Descent: Journey into the Dark 1st edition beats Hero Quest

[@LeeroyPorkins]

@@Archaoen Only played 2nd Edition, i prefer Massive Darkness.

[@karaso0]

​​@@LeeroyPorkins Same, been playing MD2 more then I expected to.

[@Rakkadeedoo]

Porkskiiiiiiins.....!!

[@LeeroyPorkins]

@@Rakkadeedoo Hello there.

[@vojkobaumanspoon]

I have none yet, and dont know if I should take ATO or KIngdoms Forlorn?? Need them all

[@TheKingofAverage]

Personally, AT:O is what is being reviewed now as a final product, so if you like the look of it that's the one to get.

[@stevecolgrave4584]

Hurtful review Michael. Hurtful to my wallet! I was lucky enough to back this originally. The problem now is do I get cycles 4-5? I've already backed base KF off the back of the strength of AT:O, do I go deeper with this? Do I go in for season 1 of 12 sins? Do I just sell a kidney? Seriously, if you had base AT:O, what would you buy next with limited finances?

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha man that scared me for a second :D I'd buy the next 2 cycles if I liked AT:O already. That's the most sure fire thing right? That's what is being reviewed and enjoyed right now, everything else has that slight unknown on if the differences will be something you appreciate or not. Unless you think you'd get tired of it before then, in which case I'd say KF since it's "more different" than Sins. Hope that helps! :)

[@stevecolgrave4584]

@@TheKingofAverage the only thing I wonder is if KF is more suited to a soloist like me

[@timf7354]

So what I heard is if you have cats (pets) and dont have a game room with door, this isnt a game for you because said cat will godzilla your game setup, thus causing unending (re)setup and frustration. Lol. This happens to me with even shorter games. They love to lay (and roll) on the square shaped boards. Quick question: If you didnt own any of it, where would you start? I wish you spent more time on the differences between cycles 1-3, 4,5, and the newest seasons versions. I read the KS page and im really torn. There's no way i can afford it all. That'll be over $1000 once the KS shows all 4 seasons plus the prior cycles content. Their decision factors given on the KS page are really dumb. Are you impatient, then buy cycles 1-3 to get the game the quickest. Want to spend $100 less than cycles 1-3 then buy the seasons. But wait, we are going to announce all 4 seasons during the campaign, which will then increase the amount to same or more than cycles 1-3. Ugh. What i want to know is, if i start with Summer season, will it ruin the story and/or gameplay of the prior cycles version? Or will i miss out on lore that i wouldve learned if i played them in order of their release. Or, is the gameplay loop a lot better in Summer and a better place to start? So many questions that boil down to... How would you advise your friend if your friend doesnt own any of it?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah a cat will jack this up pretty well I'd think :D Not the end of the world of course if you are already used to dealing with cats. I know I re-set up many a game when I didn't have a game room (or the cat would get into it anyway). So jumping in point. If the $300+shipping is too much then yeah, Summer would be great. However if new, I'd suggest the core Cycles 1-3 if you can. It's a safer bet as it's what is now real and being reviewed. The cycles do all form a great story, but they are also stand alone. Think of it like a typical Marvel movie :) As for ruining story. No surely not, it's a prequel. It will certainly change your perception though. Cycle 1 starts with you not knowing much so the titans, primordials, all of it is new and slowly revealed. I imagine the "setting" will not feel the same if you've already played through the prequel :)

[@Fenraellis]

@@TheKingofAverage Technically it's a Prequel/Sequel/Side-quel, with the Seasons having the potential to interact with the Argo and the Argonauts at different stages of the Cycles, and even possibly the other way around. Also, well, ATO has some temporal shenanigans involved at certain points, so that makes extra sense. That being said, I would generally agree that ATO has a lower floor for entry (but does build upon itself), and a more guided story, so it makes a better entry level by default. Price notwithstanding.

[@DVCBear]

Thx for including the App. The app enables me to play on a small table. I have the neoprene mat, stays on the table. I then use the game board for the map. I store the map off the the side during battles then move the map back during the voyage phase. Give me a 4x8 of the map all the time. I store exported map tiles on a separate stack.

[@TheKingofAverage]

oh yeah helps a lot. I still wish it handled tech though. The new binder I suppose helps with that some.

[@thewarpandrealms9889]

Much love King - killer review. Only constructive feedback being a steadier camera pan when budget applicable.

[@thewarpandrealms9889]

A few friends and I have been live streaming Oathsworn, we're about half way through playing bi-weekly, but the itch to get ATO onto the table is immense!

[@TheKingofAverage]

100% agreed, and thank you! I need to see actually if the camera has a setting for that. I know most phone cameras do (where it uses some AI to artificially steady it) and actually I might able to do so in post as well - will look!

[@Deltium5683]

Very good review, thanks.

[@Onyxinka]

I am wondering how many people will praise this game after they finish it......... Loved it during cycle 1 Got seriously annoyed at cycle 2 Hated during cycle 3 Problem is not complexity itself, but rules issues, management issues, administrative issues, etc..... Mind I love KDM and Middara..heavy games as hell.....

[@TheKingofAverage]

I'll be sure to have an updated thoughts once I get there!

[@rodneyaudley2980]

Michael transforms into a titan. Nice.

[@damons9522]

Really liked the new format for the review. Thanks for keeping the PRO/CONs review at the end. Perhaps in the future you can add some gameplay footage. Even if it is staged, I think it would add to what you've done on this video.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Solid idea! I'll put some thought into seeing how to best convey that while not making it cringy (which is my initial worry lol) :D

[@damons9522]

@@TheKingofAverage yes, don't make it cringy. I was thinking you can show the tokens being placed in the pool. Kinda like you did with showing the app. Also, I liked seeing the board set-up and ready to play. Great way to show off the game.

[@benh4390]

Great review KOA. Like you this jumped to the top of my favourite board games, it is all encompassing but so rewarding when you give the time over to it.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Completely agreed.

[@ronaldlawrence8879]

There is a Conan Monooly?!! I look and see a Monopoly wedged right in the middle of your Conan collection... Dammit, you are going to get me to pledge an all in..great synopsis, Mike ..

[@ronaldlawrence8879]

😂 kidding on the Conan Monopoly...

[@TheKingofAverage]

hahah Funny enough ever since I covered that game in my April Fools video I've kept it tucked away in my shelf just waiting for comment lol

[@MrMagicchrisi]

The only thing holding me off, is nearly all reviews mention the only playercount working for this Game is solo or two players at max. What are your thoughts and experiences on that?

[@TheKingofAverage]

I've had zero issues with all 4. What are their complaints about that? One of the big benefits is that Hard Co-Op (Kratos pool) keeps everyone engaged. I think it VERY much depends on your group though I'd think. If people debate to the ends of the earth on every decision then I can see that being an issue - but I'm unsure if that's AT:O's fault and is common with any group decision making game at that point. You can solo quicker of course, but again, true of most games :D Of note, you ALWAYS play 4 Argonauts so there's no change there except the amount of people at the table.

[@MrMagicchrisi]

@@TheKingofAverage thanks a lot for your opinion! Biggest complaint is, that a titan can be taken out early on in a fight, and then 1 player has to idle around for a long time.

[@Shawne01]

great work, loving the format, keep up the good work hope those watching can use this information to make better decisions as backers and as board gamers.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thank you very much, and I hope so too! :)

[@penny5636]

I so enjoyed your review! Your love for this game shined through, and it was a joy to watch… thank you. 😊

[@TheKingofAverage]

Really happy to hear it thank you!

[@fbarbirato]

More of this please!