Missing 411 | Was Mark Hanson Attacked on the Appalachian Trail?

[@TheLoreLodge]

Use my code LORELODGE to get $5 off your delicious, high protein Magic Spoon cereal by clicking this link: sponsr.is/magicspoon_lorelodge_0624

[@CreativaArtly]

My go to cereal. Chocolate and cinnamon roll are definitely my faves.

[@shepherddog1199]

Will look into it. Also, Aiden (hope I spelled it right), have you read the early Church Fathers?

[@Davidiscrazy]

I think some of the weirdest and unsettling thing about missing people in woods. It’s that it plays out like a horror movie. We ask a lot of questions that we ask during horror movies like… why did they spilt up? Why did this action make sense to them rather than this action. It’s eerie to me how that happens.

[@Davidiscrazy]

I think that’s why people like to believe there is an almost supernatural feel to it. Cause it reminds us of our own horror stories. The only difference being that we can see the monster in our horror stories but in real life we cannot

[@alphooey]

Looks like you’ve been eaten alive by mosquitoes.

[@corporalsoletrain2132]

Dude... one of your fellow hikers drops his pack he's done. Priority is now get to shelter. He's in distress, the fun portion of the hike is over. Basic hiker safety

[@KayBacci]

Are you saying people do this for fun? Seriously?!

[@comradeurod9805]

​@KayBacci we're a weird species

[@coyote4936]

I had “friends” leave me behind on the ozark highland trail in Arkansas when my hips messed up while hiking. I hiked back until right before dark, and heard lots of gun fire in close to where I was hiking.

[@designersheets]

@@coyote4936 Some "friends," yeesh. Glad you made it out of that.

[@Surr3alD3sign]

​@@coyote4936i hope you are now down a few friends and hopefully made some better ones

[@Fuhrious]

“Why was he screaming?” Has to be one of the single most ominous sentences ever heard or written.

[@williamwinstrop3918]

Drama queen….

[@jahnj2523]

There's plenty of things out in the forest that you never want to see. They even make bigfoot seem safe.

[@Fuhrious]

@@williamwinstrop3918 William, imagine you’re out camping with friends. One goes out in the dark to take a pee. you and your friends are sitting around the campfire and all of a sudden you hear your friend screaming, going further and further away. Being the realist you obviously are, You say "he might’ve hit his leg, stepped on a thorn or something" knowing it didn't sound like that. His screams were life and death. In the pit of your stomach, you know you're lying to yourself. but then your friend calls you on it and asks “maybe, but why was he screaming?". Why is he STILL screaming? Even you, sir, with your nerves of steel, and your lack of empathy would feel afraid at that time. An ominous sense of foreboding.

[@MrBrachiatingApe]

@@Fuhrious He'd be pissing his pants. Internet tough guy usually means real-life chicken.

[@Fuhrious]

@@MrBrachiatingApe bingo

[@Red0543]

If my friend suddenly just drops his pack because he can’t carry it anymore I would’ve definitely turned back right then and there. To continue on without equipment or supplies in those conditions is a death sentence! Hell, even if I had to carry both him *and* his pack I would’ve done so because friends don’t leave friends behind!

[@dangerxbadger2300]

Even if you have to do something like fashion yourself a little sled out of dead branches and grass or something or twine or whatever to pull it behind you so the weight is more evenly distributed and you can use your whole body weight to pull instead of the pack's weight being on your back and shoulders, you figure something out. You don't just leave gear and people behind, ever. Ever ever.

[@ingridn0g]

Agreed! Also, they totally could have set camp together right then and there! Comfortably? Hell no, but at least none of them would be alone, they would be on trail, they'd have shelter, and also could share some body heat (besides the equipment) to keep both alive through the night. You don't just LEAVE your friend behind at night, in a forest, in the snow, knowing he is exhausted and cold and has no equipment on him!!!

[@alphooey]

@@ingridn0gyeah when he first started fretting about his pack I’d have said to him “let’s head back”. If he wasn’t up to heading back then set up “camp” and head back in morning after a rest. Then again I wouldn’t have let the first guy go back by himself. Everyone sticks together. You all head back and then make plans for what to do next. Doesn’t sound like any of them had a clue.

[@valkeriejones3818]

"I can't carry it for you.... but I can carry YOU!"

[@DjDeja]

You guys have to keep in mind this was a completely different time. This was 1975. Think about the mindset of men back then, likely male bravado and if one dude assured the other they would be fine, the other guy wouldn't push the issue.

[@honeycrispsnail4032]

man, i don’t care if my friend is whining, complaining, stomping his feet, punching trees, or shaking me by the collar. i would never leave him behind. i’d rather deal with an annoying friend than a frozen one.

[@raptureangel5409]

EXACTLY!!!

[@mime514]

I get that, but trying to carry an adult male who doesn’t cooperate in freezing conditions is hard, especially if you yourself suffer from exhaustion and exposure to the elements. Trying to carry someone decreases your chances of survival, and because they are unable to fend for themselves you are their only hope. It’s a horrible situation to be in, and leaving was a hard decision to make, but I see why he chose that

[@The_moon_is_pretty]

​@@mime514yeah but in the beginning he wasn't frozen he was just tired you wouldn't have had to carry him maybe just help him walk or better yet, sit down with him and keep encouraging him. Just anything but leaving him alone.

[@ryanwielewski5192]

Easy to say when you're comfortable at home, under stress and cold, people will make mistakes.

[@thecatreturns22]

​@@mime514 Idk maybe he could've decided to set up camp then and there like he did later on anyways instead of leaving him behind.

[@CrypidLore]

Pro-tip with Magic Spoon, if you want a cheaper alternative just buy edible packing peanuts and some cocoa powder and you'll have the full experience of the chocolate one.

[@subrosa4792]

Isn’t it like $15 a box at the grocery store? I guess Granolas will pay anything for natural food?

[@twister356]

True

[@jannettb7930]

My thoughts exactly lol they're about 10 bucks a box at my local grocery store, but I had a 30% of coupon so I got the chocolate kind. Either the chocolate is an anomaly and the other flavors are awesome, or all these KZbinrs sponsored by magic spoon are liars.

[@twister356]

@@jannettb7930 I got 4 boxes of the cereal to try it cause “HeAlThY” and they were all bad

[@jannettb7930]

​@subrosa4792 what makes you think magic spoon is 'natural food'? I assure you, there is nothing natural about it.

[@KeithPrince-cp3me]

I think they had a serious falling out with Hanson repeatedly complaining then finally stubbornly refusing to go on.

[@alphooey]

If the description of his behaviour is true he sounds like a pain in the bum. Doesn’t sound like any of them were in a fit enough state to have done the hike even in good conditions.

[@TimothyCollins]

I hate to say it but obviously the first person to look at when another person disappears like this is… the only other person near them. We have to ask if perhaps there was foul play here. There were only two people there, it was a full night to do something and so the obvious opportunity exists. So we have to ask if perhaps the other person had a motive.

[@pfifltrigg]

Yeah, I can understand the frustration, but he knew how dangerous it was to first leave the pack and keep hiking instead of just setting up camp there, and then leaving his friend alone with zero supplies in the cold. I guess it's not technically foul play or negligent homicide but he knew leaving him alone could lead to his death and did it anyway.

[@monkmoto1887]

@@pfifltriggdead men tell no stories. That pack could just as easily have been left there by the person who supposedly found it seeing as the person who allegedly saw him leave it is the same person

[@mattjack3983]

​@drsteiner12Yeah that's exactly why I'm mostly a solo hiker. There's only 2 other people I will ever go on hikes like that with, because I've had several bad experiences with people who just made the whole thing absolutely miserable with their constant complaining.

[@MadamFizzgig]

I grew up in Maine. Lotta snow here. The worst move you can pull in a snowball fight is the “white wash”. You get picked up by your legs and thrown face first into a snowbank. Then everyone stuffs your clothes with snow. That’s the only thing I could think of in a snowball fight that could make someone so pissed. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@sea_triscuit7980]

That's not even a snowball fight, that's like Chinese water torture haha

[@scottiesrockmaggie6279]

I grew up in Missouri and another thing that could cause animosity is a rock either inadvertantly or purposely has a rock in it. It wouldn't have to be a big rock to hurt like fire.

[@aria6136]

I was thinking pee, or rocks, or ice in the snowball

[@MadamFizzgig]

@@sea_triscuit7980 I once was woken from a dead sleep by being thrown into a snowbank in just my underwear. I still get flashbacks 😅

[@pablojansen2080]

​@@sea_triscuit7980American frozen water torture

[@averageguysgadgetguy]

What kind of a friend leaves his buddy to camp alone in the snow? That sounds so sketchy imo

[@tannermcguire7713]

Bring them along or stay with them regardless, we've seen this shit happen for centuries

[@CaptainTrips560]

I feel like you could make a case that that’s attempted murder, or at the very least, negligent homicide

[@nickdarr7328]

​@@CaptainTrips560absolutely not. No one forced him to go hiking. One friend already turned around. Obviously the guy wasn't fit enough. And the friend carried his pack as far as he could. I'm sure both guys thought they were very close to the shelter and just needed to press on. So when the guy stopped the friend wanted to get warm and kept going thinking the shelter was near which of course it was. If he found the shelter he would have got warm, put his stuff down and went to convince the friend to keep going. The friend was just stupid and probably spoiled and used to be babied since he actually had a friend carry his backpack. He was expecting super human effort from his friend and doing nothing himself.

[@monroe7532]

@@CaptainTrips560how?

[@CaptainTrips560]

@@nickdarr7328 keep that energy up next time you stub your toe in the woods, lazy fig

[@reecewestmoreland6137]

I think the only remotely paranormal aspect of this is the lack of common sense on display of dumping your pack under those conditions.

[@mattjack3983]

Yeah that was incredibly dumb

[@Sollinare]

Yeah, it's like they did everything wrong.

[@Orchidbeetle]

@@Sollinaredumps his pack, sits down and gives up in the woods, his friend splits up from him. Yeah definitely sounds like the script to horror plot

[@Yerpompous]

You assume he dumped for no good reason? Omg

[@reecewestmoreland6137]

@@Yerpompous well there's not good reason in those conditions as it was literally his only chance to survive. Miles for civilisation out in the dark and cold. Dropping it was nearly signing his death warrant

[@Pushing_Pixels]

If Hanson followed the watershed far enough to be outside the area the searchers thought he could be in, it means he was actively avoiding going down into the drainage for some time. This makes me think that he may have believed, or hoped, he was still on the (snow covered) trail. Perhaps he started screaming for help as soon as he realised he definitely wasn’t. If this is the case, it means he just needed to rest for a while before continuing, and that being left behind is what doomed him. Buddy System exists for a reason.

[@GenXGamerGirl]

Rule #1. Don't split the party.

[@gimmeurkidney]

i wonder how many horror movies need to come out for people to realize this lol

[@Adshercott]

But how else do they look for clues?

[@TigerLily61811]

The Al Green Rule.

[@kaylahevans8334]

I have this quote on a magnet 😂

[@OriginalStachuJones]

BUT FRED DID IT ALL THE TIME

[@Renagale]

I know a lot of people don't truely understand how hard following something like the Appalachia trail, trails in most cases are just easier paths to walk because people and animals walk that way so much plants are trampled too much to truly build up, but this means that the paths only animals make are near indistinguishable from people paths. It takes less then 10 seconds walking what looks like a path because they're less brush in this one spot to put you in a life threatening situation. Living in Georgia I've been in the Appalachia region a fair few amounts of time and the amount of times we have gone off trail randomly is insane just because it looked walkable. Now imagine several different paths near indistinguishable from the other in the dark while you're literally dying. This is why you don't move when lost unless absolutely necessary.

[@austinashworth6413]

I also live in the Georgia/Tennessee Appalachians and completely agree with everything you said. Even on easier trails you’ve traveled dozens of times you’re still wondering “which of these three opening are the real trail”. If you guess wrong and reach a dead end, backtracking and trying to make sense of anything is awful.

[@bexter1442]

I got lost on a path in north carolina. Tons of supposed markers, not the real trail. It can be easy to get lost in truly wild trails. Especially in the mountains

[@axer3515]

Trails are dangerous. I am a 180 lb male who trained in an MMA type fighting style, and i have had several attempted robbery while on trails in Maine and Vermont. In Maine I hadvto pull avgun on three teenagers who wanted my equipment. In Vermont two guys were following me so I got some distance and hid till theyvpassed me. I actually heard them talking about robbing someone. Some how they did not see the 30.06 or sidearm i had. The assholes stopped a group of younger teens and demanded their money and camping gear. Me and another guy held them at gun point until the rangers came. All three were wanted in NYC. That was my last time on a trail. If you go, be armed .

[@loridavis5699]

Always! I am gonna do some hiking in NH with my friends Smith and Wesson

[@Widespread-Panic]

Amen to that. Thank you for helping those teens@

[@axer3515]

@loridavis5699 I told the ranger who came, " I carried the weapons in case of animals."He said it looks like you found some.

[@murphyrutledge5590]

A 30-06 sidearm? What’re you packing brother?

[@whitneystanek5081]

That's awful to go through, thank goodness you were armed!

[@Lusa_Iceheart]

Fish might not have wanted to do Hanson any harm, but he certainly was a shitty friend. If you're the one with the supply and your friend doesn't have anything (cause he left the pack behind), leaving him behind in the snow like that is stupidly irresponsible. He should have bed down right there with Hanson and tried to make it to the shelter in the morning. Leaving him behind with no equipment is insane. They would've been warmer staying together and it'd only have improved Fish's conditions that night. If it was the next morning and Hanson still couldn't go on, ok then yeah head for the shelter and look for help, but leave the gear there for him! A you can get to the shelter faster without the gear and B if he's still immobile he needs the equipment more than you. You don't need the sleeping bag if your heading off to the shelter to get help, and you probably don't need the stuff to make a fire, or a tent. Waiting till morning WITH Hanson probably would have saved his life. All around very shitty decisions from Fish, probably added to his trauma knowing that he *left his friend behind*. At the very least, Fish fucked up and his mistakes got his friend killed. I certainly wouldn't want to go hiking with Fish.

[@NanaBren]

The dropped gear is bothering the hell outta me. I’m not a hiker, but it seems like that would be a good sign that the guy is not okay. Fish should not have let him continue on after the pack was dropped. I agree, they should have stayed together for warmth. Even if he was pissed because he thought Hanson was a wimp, abandoning him was wrong. The screaming was probably Hanson trying to get Fish to come back. Sad.

[@alisondickinson]

You realize the shelters in the Smokies are just three sided sheds. There is no warmth, no accommodations and often no one else, especially in the winter. Getting to a shelter just means you have gotten to bare minimum coverage.

[@NAEVAN238]

he wasnt thinking right most likely, i know when i get annoyed enogh i couldn't think of that, but i do agree with you otherwise

[@Encourageable]

I recall a time when my friends and I went to a pond about 2 miles away to go ice skating. It was about 15 degrees outside. On the way home I got so cold that I couldn’t go on. My feet and ankles felt like they were solid and inflexible. I couldn’t walk. My hands were frozen. My face was frozen. I felt like I was going to die. My friend was super cold too but he could go on. I would not have wanted my friend to stay with me because it would have meant death for both of us. I insisted he go on and get help which is probably what happened here. Going for help was the right thing to do - it was the best choice.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Just ONCE I wish that when it's time for the "searchers were under no illusions, this was now a recovery mission" part, the person would just walk out of the tree line like, "what's up guys? I found this cache, I'm actually totally fine." Why can't we just have something like that?

[@DestinyKiller]

There probably are stories like that. But what's to talk about if they made it out ok?

[@notahumanbeing6892]

@@DestinyKillera lot more? considering they continue living? and so the story continues? as interesting as a mysterious death can be, a survival tale is never boring and they are much more hope inducing, which is desperately needed in a time where people act so openly vile to one another constantly

[@DestinyKiller]

@@notahumanbeing6892 well yeah, you can give the tale of the survival. I more meant there's not a whole lot of story once they've gone back to living their lives. I'm sure there are plenty of good survival stories on KZbin somewhere

[@JeremyMarcum1]

​@notahumanbeing6892 eh. If it bleeds it leads. Conversely if it doesn't... it doesn't. I appreciate your approach, but if you want heart warming material it's going to be harder to find defacto because humans kinda suck.

[@SuperNoticer]

Because this is real life, not a movie

[@brn2579]

Here's three options for a snowball fight going too far, 1. Yellow snowballs, 2. Rolling rocks up in snow and throwing them, 3. Throwing chunks of ice.

[@tannermcguire7713]

Well the snowman in monsters Inc. Did warn of the yellow snowcones

[@scallopohare9431]

We have bobcats. We get an extra color - red snow.

[@DryptosaurusDavid]

I’ve been hit in the face with a piece of ice before and it hurt. Fuck the friend who did it. He’s an ass clown now.

[@brunoactis1104]

4. Wrapping snow around a grenade and throwing it maybe

[@CaptainTrips560]

As another commenter said, there’s a thing called “white washing” where you throw someone in a snowbank, so the snow gets inside their clothes. In normal conditions, that’s douchey & something that will piss people off. Out in the woods, it could be deadly

[@muppetb.lansing8374]

No matter how tired I would be, I'd NEVER stay at "Cosby Knob Shelter." Just keep moving folks

[@tannermcguire7713]

Sweaters and puddin pops required

[@llcoolray3000]

The hypocrisy there is the worst.

[@MKUltra42]

When I heard that I knew the trip was doomed.

[@kitalalaris]

What's at Cosby Knob Shelter?

[@MiB1313]

@@kitalalaris Unauthorized entry into another's body.

[@BX138]

It doesn't always need to be paradoxical undressing. I hunt Elk, and this happens a lot. When you start out hiking in the cold, you bundle up, hat, coat, gloves, etc. But as you get hiking a while, your body temperature goes up and you get hot. To cool off, you unzip your coat and take off your gloves and hat. People in the Dyatlov pass incident didn't have "paradoxical undressing" because they weren't hiking.

[@ralcogaming7674]

That's why nearly every survival expert says you always want to be a little cold. It doesn't take long for any physical exertion to start raising your body temperature. Even splitting wood in below freezing temps you'll start take layers off after about 20-30 minutes.

[@bloodyneptune]

@Milkman4279 You dont need to be hiking to end up paradoxically undressing, you just need to have hypothermia. Its not about getting too sweaty and hot and taking yoyr jacket off, its your dying, freezing brain making you think you're burning up.

[@costlycoffee4234]

​@@bloodyneptuneyeah, hell your capillaries genuinely do expand as your body shuts down and your nervous system interprets this as a heat dumping maneuver, sending real signals to your brain telling you that you are hot. Even if you were thinking clearly, the false signal is real and you *will* feel hot. Same as when you come inside with cold hands and they suddenly feel extremely hot despite being physically cold, it's the same false interpretation of capillary expansion

[@devinjones1527]

Magic spoon is gentrifying our cereal and I will not stand for it. They want like almost $10 for a box. Found it at Walmart. Under no circumstances. Some celebrity figured out you're supposed to put milk on cereal and then all of a sudden there's a $10 cereal on the shelf? Hell nah you took lobster and a bunch of other foods from us poors but you're not taking my cereal. That is where I draw the line. Love the vid though, I'm still gonna rewatch about a thousand times lol, thanks for the work that y'all do. Came here right from a wendigoon video. Ofc, no hard feelings for the magic spoon sponsor, in this economy you do what you gotta do.

[@DestinyKiller]

Don't know where you live but a box of regular branded cereal here is almost ten bucks a box as is

[@SockieTheSockPuppet]

Gentrifying usually means making things better. Magic Spoon is disgusting.

[@chrisclark4112]

It'd have to be a magic spoon to make me pay 10dollars for a box of cereal.

[@Bubblegum-rv2tf]

@@SockieTheSockPuppetdepends on who we’re talking about. For the wealthy people who move in? Yeah sure things are better. For the poor inner city folks? No. Prices go up and they’re pushed out of their homes. Generally gentrification isn’t considered a good thing either.

[@SockieTheSockPuppet]

@Bubblegum-rv2tf Well frankly the opposite end isn't desirable either.

[@Puffalupagus360]

Magic spoon's entire script read is a list of reasons I should not eat their cereal.

[@atomabl1424]

Dude let me tell you from experience magic spoon is magically ass

[@leigha2814]

The fact that they talk about the macros and the -frees and "grown up ingredients" but don't mention what food it is actually made with is a warning sign yeah. I haven't tried it but I've never heard a good thing about it.

[@derekmcmanus8615]

As a 52 year old from Northern Ireland Magic Spoon cereal sounds absolutely vile

[@bigfatcarp93]

@@derekmcmanus8615 Why the hell would your age and country of origin be relevant?

[@derekmcmanus8615]

@@bigfatcarp93 I suspect that many folks in the United States of a certain age would be culturally attuned to certain types of highly sugared breakfast cereals prehaps with the addition of such things as corn syrup and indeed other highly processed foods 🤔 my immediate reaction to the description of 'Magic Spoon ceral' was no way would I put it in my mouth it sounds extremely unhealthy and the flavours offered would not appeaI to my palette

[@survivaloptions4999]

1. Just because it's spring where you are doesn't mean it's spring on the trail. 2. You can die of exposure at 70* F 3. If you are lost, sit your ass down and don't move unless you absolutely have to.

[@thatsickkidjaz1749]

And I dont think people take into account how cold it actually gets in the mountains. Even in summer it is like 10° cooler on the summit

[@scarling9367]

You can die of hypothermia in fairly warm water as well. People underestimate it.

[@jackie165]

@@thatsickkidjaz1749Yeah I just went to the Smokies a few weeks ago and while it was 85° in Knoxville, it was 65° in the mountains.

[@matthiasthulman4058]

​@scarling9367 that's why I never understood those people that wear shorts or just a t-shirt in the winter.

[@CaptainTrips560]

I’m a very experienced hiker who nearly died of hypothermia in the middle of July last year because of a momentary lapse of judgment that wound up nearly having major consequences

[@TooLegit2Quit84]

Leaving a friend behind is bizarre to me.

[@DjDeja]

It was a different time for guys where the social expectation was for men to never show vulnerability. The guys probably assured each other they would be fine and didn't challenge it because it wasn't the norm back then. That doesn't make it right but it was just a totally different time back in 1975.

[@MKUltra42]

He probably killed him and threw him down a hole. That’s my theory for 80% of missing 411 cases.

[@nickdarr7328]

Well the friend comes off as a spoiled brat. Who would expect someone to carry your pack? And when the friend thinks the shelter is close you just give up. He wanted super human effort from the friend and did nothing to help himself. The shitty friend is the one who died. If fish found the shelter he would have warmed up and gone back to convince the friend to stop being a baby. The guy obviously shouldn't have been on the trail and wasn't mentally or physically prepared for it

[@LudwigVaanArthans]

​@@DjDejashut the eff up, and never be this stupid in public again

[@gowanlore2434]

​@@nickdarr7328warped-moral-compass award

[@AverageAlien]

Before the accusations begin, no, it wasn't us...

[@jamesknapp64]

But are you sure?

[@al1383]

That's what all the aliens say

[@trustworthydan]

Sounds like what someone that's guilty would say...

[@horrorhotel46290]

What about above avarage aliens? any comments you can make? we were umable to reach your peers for their take?

[@SockieTheSockPuppet]

I mean, from what people say you guys aren't the only ones out there. But Grays are generally seen as more cruel.

[@Joanne-i7q]

Stay together !! On a Girl Scout hike , the "leaders" broke us kids in two groups, going different ways. . This was in the Catskills . My "leader" wasn't supervising. Two of us kids, walking too fast, took the wrong fork in trail, and got lost . It could have ended really badly . My asthma kicked in, I was hysterical.

[@kohinarec6580]

Never leave your gear. Never leave your buddy.

[@iluvstripe]

i'm really glad you read mark's tribute from the newspaper, it was very touching. you guys always go above and beyond with research and it really shows how much you care about what you do, and the people involved.

[@brookiecookie6586]

I know it made me tear up

[@iluvstripe]

@@brookiecookie6586 just seeing this, but same

[@BelovedDevil]

I didn't know how I was going to survive the nightmare shift in the factory of horrors until I saw this was going up now I think if I hide in the screaming closet and watch this I may be okay

[@NanaBren]

It’s so crowded in the screaming closet! Will they let you in? 😮

[@GregorTriggs]

The screaming closet 😂😂

[@lily-iv3rn]

Lore Lodge videos premiere at 23.00 where I live, but it is always great to start the weekend with a high quality documentary by my favorite youtubers

[@agingersopinion4820]

I feel that. it's a 22:00 premiere for me, lol

[@TheLoreLodge]

We tried to split the difference as much as possible by going with 4pm EST haha

[@rignea8662]

@@agingersopinion4820same here

[@lily-iv3rn]

@@TheLoreLodge thanks!! much love from Russia ❤️

[@vitalucas9452]

​@@lily-iv3rn😮 Wow! You must have tales of creatures in the dense woods.

[@Best_Username777]

“Never have I seen a Bigfoot case where someone is kidnapped and brought of trail and left in a spot to freeze to death” but I have, Mt Shasta California, a girl was kidnapped while her family was looking, she was taken some couple miles away until eventually she just showed back up in the exact spot she vanished where upon she said “Mr bear took care of me” Most likely entirely unrelated but I just thought it was interesting

[@dangerxbadger2300]

They actually have done a video on this story I believe. And if I remember correctly, that was in the middle of summer not in the dead of winter so his assertion still holds

[@Best_Username777]

@@dangerxbadger2300 I think they did a video about the other more well known Mt Shasta story being the “robot grandma” story but I’m not sure if they ever covered this one

[@jamesknapp64]

​@@Best_Username777the Missing Enigma did a deep dive on Robot Grandma last summer

[@MoGumboFukUTubeForChngngMyName]

If it has ever happened, how could you have known if there was a Bigfoot case where someone was kidnapped and brought off trail and left in a spot to freeze to death?? hmmm??

[@charlesdial7152]

It was definitely smthg that had her with them and took care of her..strange 😬

[@cinnamongirl5410]

Only mystery here is how could friends leave another friend, who is already struggling alone on a trail without his pack, in the snow.

[@hildahilpert5018]

That,s true.But why would you go hiking in the Middle of winter??That ,s crazy.

[@DaddiDrako]

Self preservation why would you abandon your gear and then stop before getting to safety, you can’t expect someone else to risk their life because of your dumb decisions

[@codysmith3853]

​@@DaddiDrako Dude they were friends, are you saying that you would abandon your friend?

[@SuperNoticer]

He may have been struggling himself and not thinking clearly

[@AJadedLizard]

@@codysmith3853 How good of a friend are you if you refuse to carry your own gear and then sit down and pout like a toddler when things get too hard? He sounds a bit insufferable.

[@williamthompson5504]

Ive been in the Great Smokey Mtns several times. After my first visit, I never went back without my lever action 16 gauge and my Colt 1911.

[@AirsoftJunkie]

Two world wars, Sonny!

[@fruitfarmfords8243]

​@AirsoftJunkie Its more useful than airsoft at least.. I prefer a glock 21 myself though, don't like to feel limited. Lol

[@patrickferryman6579]

As someone who hasn't hiked that area, tell me, what did you see that convinced you to never go back without either of those? Also a lever action 16 gauge is badass. Was the 1911 in .45 or 10mm?

[@williamthompson5504]

​​@@patrickferryman6579The 1911 is a .45. Bears, Mtn Lions and the constant feeling my best friend and I had of being followed and watched. We were 100% sober on that first trip. The 16 gauge was my great grandfather's. He used it to hunt quail. My dad restored it and my brother HATES firearms. He wouldn't appreciate it like my father and I do. You should definitely hike some of the Smokey Mtns, it's beautiful. Just take protection from predators, pot farmers and moonshine bootleggers .

[@patrickferryman6579]

@@williamthompson5504 and feral humans. I've seen the descent, lol. But no in all honesty if I did i would carry my FN510, idk about a long gun though as I'm from out of state down in Texas.

[@reaver1414]

I live in Wisconsin and in response to your snowball fight question..... There are several actions that I can think of that could cause a snowball fight to turn ugly and those are..... 1. Multiple people teaming up on one person. 2. Giving someone a face wash(rubbing snow in someone's face) 3. Shoving snow under people's clothes. These 3 have led to many arguments that would draw the attention of parents and teachers and cause them to intervene and put a stop to it. But there is one action that l personally have seen lead to kids being sent to the emergency room, caused friendships to end, and was the reason our school banned snowball fights on school grounds and that is .... 4. Throwing ice balls instead of snowballs. Either because you picked up a piece of already hardened ice or because you used your hands to partially melt and compact the soft snow into much more dangerous projectiles. Maybe kids don't get down like that in Pennsylvania?

[@Robdavis1990]

24:27 - 1 , W

[@Robdavis1990]

' s - . - " 3😮

[@stuglife5514]

Pennsylvanian here, can say nah, we threw ice, and a popular one was putting snow in someone’s hood and flipping it up on them

[@houseofsolomon2440]

​@@stuglife55143 stooges style! 😂

[@houseofsolomon2440]

We didn't f around with ice a whole lot. It's like bringing a gun to a knife fight...

[@thesecretshade]

That sounds so sketchy tho. He didn't say anything when H just dropped his backpack? And H just dropped down into the snow and he leaves H? Sounds weird af. Edit: what i mean is, if i hike with someone and that person can't continue on, I'll put up the tent, place them in there while making a fire. I just can't believe anyone would leave the backpack behind because thats literally your best chance to survive with your tent and clothes and emergency blanket and sleeping bag and whatever you have in there to keep warm and make a fire and make tea to warm up more.

[@LudwigVaanArthans]

Witness reports in missing 411 cases are always taken as truth, which is stupid. This is easily a murder case

[@diggs5518]

None of the story makes much sense. A friend's complaining about having a hard time and, you push to go on? Someone just drops their back-pack with ALL of their survival supplies? You abandon a friend in the middle of the mountains then, camp out for the night, maybe claim you hear him screaming and, don't go looking before you leave the area? And, the police were never involved? The whole story sounds like complete, B.S. Not buying it.

[@HiFiAwardTour]

My guess is alcohol was involved. Heavy drinking. Doing something so blatantly stupid as dropping your pack makes more sense. So does being too exhausted to move. So does getting lost. Instead of dropping the pack just stop and set up camp. There is no other option.

[@montehurd]

For pronunciation of local areas you can maybe call local businesses that might have knowledge - camping/hiking stores etc

[@thatsickkidjaz1749]

Yeah, just look up state rest stops in that area and ask them.

[@thedecentgamer7818]

Only a couple minutes in right now, and it's already weird. You hear your friend screaming for help, and you don't try to figure out what's happening? Weird

[@thatsickkidjaz1749]

Well, he was miles away, it was night, and it was the 70s/80s, so I doubt there was a phone in the shelter he was in.

[@chrimony]

Not weird. At night, in a snowstorm, after you already settled down from exhaustion and had already left your friend to go get help. What was he realistically going to do? If somebody was attacking his friend, what was he going to do about it? If he's lost screaming for help, how can he help him anymore than when he left him in the first place? In hindsight, they should have turned back earlier. Or he should have stayed with his friend until morning. But that's all with the benefit of hindsight.

[@thedecentgamer7818]

@@chrimony if his friend was lost, then calling back to him would at least be a place to start to try and give his friend some kind of direction. Playing Marco Polo isn't exactly high-end survival strategy, but it's better than hearing your friend scream for help and rolling over and going to sleep. And if his friend was being attacked, calling put to him would possibly be able to get *some* information that way you'd at least know that foul play was involved if your friend turns up missing

[@thedecentgamer7818]

@@thatsickkidjaz1749 what I said in the other reply. If you can hear someone, they can hear you, so you don't need a phone to be able to help, even if it'd make it more convenient

[@trikepilot101]

He wasn't sure if he heard his friend or he dreamed it. It wasn't on-going.

[@my11badkids78]

Cosby Knob Shelter sounds like a place your going to get free drinks and a solid nights sleep😂😂

[@jessepitt]

😂😅

[@jenniferholich9592]

Or something... Lol

[@Firecracker321g]

As long as the person at the front desk isn't named Bill

[@ianh1504]

You wake up with a sore booty but a good nights sleep

[@MrContemplation]

As someone who has done the trial, I ran into a few situations that made me worry about safety. I know this was a while ago but I can’t imagine it’s much different. You run into good and bad people. Something about being out in nature brings out a primal sense for other’s character. A few times I hiked through the night to reach a town to basically hide for a few days.

[@13donstalos]

I feel bad he died like that, I just have a hard time feeling very sorry because this was 100% preventable.

[@annagrace2526]

I love how this takes place in the place I’m staying rn, not freaky at all

[@thatsickkidjaz1749]

You should be fine, I am a TN native and its pretty safe in the mountains, the people are the scary part.

[@al1383]

What's that behind you?

[@annagrace2526]

@@al1383 don’t mind him he’s just by bestie Bigfoot

[@felixjones9198]

This case takes place....

[@LazyDaisyDay88]

@@al1383 😂😂

[@MrEnjoivolcom1]

2:04 I’m sorry but, maybe this is just a stupid nonsense question…but why would you not be spending the night with one another? If not in the same tent then at least side by side? Or within simple tossing/eyesight distance?! That just seems like a total duh and common sense to me.

[@gavinbennett6338]

My 2.5 cents (adjusted for inflation) - Yeah, bad decisions stacked up, followed by panic. The screaming probably just being part of the panic.

[@ivanadragmire2873]

I feel like Magic spoon really shouldn't be allowed to us the tage line of " tastes like the cereal from your childhood" because it is a complete lie. If you REALLY want to try it, it's literally cheaper to tear up some cardboard, dust it in cocoa powder, and put it in a bowl of milk.

[@larapalma3744]

😂🎉

[@jaymarcy1150]

I listen to Lore Lodge as a podcast at my job and the new video premieres always pop up right after my lunch break, makes the afternoon way more interesting. Can't wait for the next one!

[@tetleyT]

According to research by Yosemite National Park Search and Rescue, "accidentally losing the trail" is the most common reason for people going missing in wilderness areas. In addition, when people are successully found, they are found an average of 1.8 kilometres from their starting point and only 58 meters from the nearest trail or road. It doesn’t take much for someone to lose their bearings in the wild.

[@deerski4426]

Love the show.....But that Magic Spoon cereal is ABSOLUTELY horrendous. 🤢🤮💀

[@CaptainTrips560]

The part about hypothermia making you take off your clothes because you think you’re too warm is 100% true. I nearly died of hypothermia once & that’s how I realized that I was in serious danger. I was like “it is WAY too cold out for me to be feeling this warm, I’m FUCKED if I don’t get inside soon”

[@stevenr5534]

After reading the first bunch of comments here it would be easy to imagine that the victim was screaming, not because he was being murdered by a crazed serial killer or being devoured by a ravenous animal, but because he realized that several boxes of the cereal in question were the only food he had in his pack.

[@ZombieSnax42069]

The drinking problem joke was always my favorite. Never understood why everyone quotes the don't call me Shirley one. Your officially the only other person I've ever heard reference it.

[@Widespread-Panic]

Those of us who have a drinking problem like that one reference it all the time.

[@Llerrah508]

Ok so this guy leaves his pack bc he didn't want to carry it. Thus leaving himself without supplies and sleeping bag, tent etc.? Then dies... Surprise!

[@stephenpmurphy591]

Oh yeah, it was paranormal forest ghost took him.. Nah, it was a winter Bigfoot! Their fur turns white during winter! So you can't see them because of all the snow. A winter big foot got him.

[@Llerrah508]

@@stephenpmurphy591 or a summer skin walker portal

[@aowen7777]

Right? My thought was like, the guy drops the pack and then decides to stop walking so he has no supplies whatsoever for sleeping and his friend decides to keep walking without him as night approaches? Getting help or not his friend shouldn't have left him unless he was actually dying and needed medical attention not just feeling tired

[@Llerrah508]

@@aowen7777 He must've left something out of the story right. Or...

[@heatherdawson74]

I just wanted to recognize Thornberry’s editing. Thanks for the moments of levity.

[@overkillegames3721]

Mark's obituary is one of the most beautiful I have ever heard.

[@phillipbirchwell9399]

I found this channel on accident last November and it's one of my favorite channels on KZbin , keep up the good work lore lodge

[@anasazirose]

We used Magic Spoon but stopped for 2 reasons. 1, toothbreakers in 2 boxes, emailed the company, no response and 2, noticed the 'made with bioengineered ingredients' note.

[@MrMemelord00]

A paper bowl? FOR CEREAL?! BLASPHEMY

[@MarkMark-xz4ff]

Story starts at 5:50

[@smolshay]

Re: Snowballs & Jeff Growing up in the Appalachian part of Ohio something every SINGLE parent/adult drilled into you was safe snowballs. Essentially, you got read the riot act to make sure that you didn't put rocks or other things into snowballs, either on purpose or accidentally. You can throw snowballs hard enough that those little pieces of (essentially) shrapnel can really hurt someone. It's possible that the other scouts, either by accident or on purpose, put little sticks and rocks in the snowballs they were launching at Jeff; and potentially, vice versa. This would explain why Lee's Dad read them the riot act and why Jeff was so upset. If HE hadn't been making rock snowballs, but was being hit with them, it would make sense that he'd be angry and getting yelled at the same way as the scouts who actually did.

[@elis4085]

That’s the thing I don’t understand with a lot of these stories. WHY DO THEY LEAVE THEIR FRIENDS BEHIND???

[@LostInTranslation-kl2of]

Bro said nah I think it would be safer if I make it to the shelter. Doesn’t even make it, sets up camp anyway. That is the worst friend

[@zzigzy_0]

This is so off topic but I love the sound for the intro so much it's like my brain locks in the second I hear it lol

[@ek_ul]

I’m not exactly an expert hiker but I’ve been on a small portion of the Appalachian trail actually really close to this portion and all I can say is Appalachia is no joke. and I was hiking in good weather too. Their fatal mistake was separating. ALWAYS stick with your crew especially if one of you is struggling.

[@Missmori]

I'm really enjoying this new take on the 411 cases. looking at them individually, but also in the context of other strange dissapearences in the same area gives a different perspective then other people usually give that i've seen. its greatly appreciated, informative, and entertaining.

[@deerichardz]

Zealous Beast is going through the '411' books one by one.

[@minecraftfox4384]

Fun fact: 411 is a fictional representation of actual disappearances, hence why the writer intentionally leaves out that 99% of the people are found shortly after going missing and because Rangers find them, police aren't notified.

[@Missmori]

@@minecraftfox4384 I know? Like yes. I know. That doesn't change the fact that these cases are called the missing 411 cases. But like Aiden said in another video, the '411' that's missing is context.

[@LeveretteJamesClifford1955]

McCarter also said the Hanson was wearing blue jeans, totally in appropriate. He was found dead, he died of hypothermia and like most people with terminal hyperthermia, he had taken most of his clothes off. He was found by accident when the searcher had to take a break and sat down in the trail and noticed an unusual lump covered by snow. He investigated and it was Hanson's body. Not much of a mystery. I was up on Clingmans Dome in 2018, because I wanted to see how the restrooms had been turned into a book store. Thick clouds already covered the book store and it was not all that cold. My cousin and I went in and chatted with the two workers there, asking about details of the bomber that had crashed at night on Clingmans Dome in the 50s, narrowly missing the observation platform. Then the worker we were talking to said he was ready to go home, an hour away. Since it was 5PM, closing time, my cousin and I walked out. The weather had turned very cold and clouds were now so thick on the mountain that the only way to find our way back was to look down to make sure we were still on asphalt. In fact, you could not see a person walking towards you until that person was about three feet away and you could still not determine if the person was male of female. But what had happened just as we were leaving the book store was that a frantic young woman went in before the workers left and reported her mother as missing. A search was initiated but her body was not found on the trail where her daughter had left her, but rather was found on no trail at all, but a mountain side about a half mile from the book store. She was naked, and had died of hypothermia. Like my cousin and I, she was dressed for mild weather. If you have ever walked in a cloud you will know that you get very wet, after all, clouds are made up entirely of small water droplets. The same weather that had hit us at the book store had come from the direction where this poor woman was, meaning that, not being able to see the trail due to the density of the clouds, she got disoriented and headed the opposite way from where she should have gone, and as she became further disoriented, some how she got entirely off the trail. The degree of decomposition of her body when found indicated she probably died soon after she got off the trail. When we left the bookstore we had no idea that a woman was lost and when I listened to the radio the next day as we began our drive back, is when I learned she was missing. At home, 500 miles away I kept up with this for several days until they found her. I told you this story because Hanson probably was dead not all that long after he and his friend separated. Rather than a cloud, it was snowing and did so the entire time the search was on and after he was found. In my story about the missing woman I want to note that it was very chilly and I wanted to get to my car and warm up and get dry. It was certainly not nearly as cold as what Hanson was experiencing. If Hanson was heard screaming, he must have been very near his friend. If you have ever been in those mountains when it is snowing like I have, the snow on the ground and on the branches of evergreen trees, it is dead quiet. So I do not thing that there is any mystery to this story. He cried out to his friend because he was beginning to panic and was feeling not just lost but also very, very cold, too cold to be compatible with cotton blue jeans. In fact, when the searcher found him, he noticed a shelter not far from where the body was.

[@minecraftfox4384]

Did nobody teach you to be concise?

[@LeveretteJamesClifford1955]

@@minecraftfox4384 Did nobody teach you to be polite to strangers, or perhaps someone did but you are just a jerk?

[@dialecticcoma]

@@minecraftfox4384 Did nobody teach you to be polite?

[@gemainestrachan5626]

I agree with the concept of people separating during hiking and both these cases make me think that the initial explanations don't make sense. Possibly more to the story? 😊

[@Nitehawke]

I know scouting has changed a lot over the years. Being female, I was never a Boy Scout but my older brother was. This would have been in the '70's because when he was 10 (1973), he saved our younger brother's life (age 2 at the time) with CPR after he nearly drown (yes, clinically dead) in the backyard pool. Brent had learned CPR just the weekend before in Scouts. About 8 years ago, a friend of mine mentioned that his son had just learned CPR in Boy Scouts, at age 16. I told him the story above and he was most surprised that they taught them CPR at such a young age back then. So, maybe the reason they insist on the buddy system now is because of things like scouts going missing or other such tragedies that happened in years past. Or it may have been a troop by troop thing rather than all encompassing at that time. Just a thought. Interesting episode, as always!

[@TheUglyBiker42069]

I've been in scouts all across the country, FL, AK, TN. All of the troops I've been in and all the ones I interacted with used the buddy system, and it was a law, not a suggestion. This was between 2009 and 2016.

[@Nitehawke]

@@TheUglyBiker42069 my text to him: "Question: back when you were in Boy Scouts, did they require Scouts to use the "buddy system" on outings?" His response: "Only for swimming." Followup question: "So if you were camping and walking from campsite to cars, not necessarily would be required along the trail?" Rrsponse: "Camp Hinds was a compound. There were no cars. That's where most of the outings were. Any remote outings we always moved as a troop. Everyone together." 2nd followup: "So it would be extremely odd for a scout master to leave a scout behind to finish packing up (his son) and to leave another along the trail because he was tired (this one went missing and ended up dead, Pennsylvania, circa '70's). Response: "The point of the outings were to learn and practice working as a unit. We would never leave one behind, for any reason." So I guess that is as close to confirmation as we're likely to get, although it doesn't sound like the buddy system was a requirement per se, so maybe that's why it wasn't questioned deeply at the time.

[@Nitehawke]

One final statement from my brother: "If one of the scouts was having trouble getting packed up, we would all pitch in and help get him packed up. If one were injured on the hike, we would assist in whatever way we needed to get him out, with the rest of the troop. Really, the main point in scouts was always teamwork." So it does sound like Aidan's point is very valid and we should all be wondering why it wasn't more closely scrutinized.

[@jamesknapp64]

The Boy Scouts have REQUIRED the buddy system since at least my dad was in it in the late 60s. Its not a recommendation. It's hammered home as one of the tenets of safety

[@Nitehawke]

@@jamesknapp64 as the conversation with my brother, which I cut/pasted into comments here, confirms. Thanks for additional confirmation all the same.

[@sandcat66]

Thankyou for the video, Saturday morning here in New Zealand. Love The Lore Lodge 💞

[@CleoHarperReturns]

The question that's been bothering me: If you've already gone 7 miles and knew that salvation was less than a mile further, why would you make the decision to stop and die just because your feet hurt? It makes absolutely no sense.

[@trikepilot101]

50 F is 10 C. Very roughly, subtract 30 and divide by 2. Actually subtract 32 and divide by 1.8. If I was there I would have made camp as soon as I couldn't carry my buddy's pack any further. We would both rest in our sleeping bags and in our tent. Next day we could go on.

[@ishmiel21]

This was a very well done video. Thank you for pointing out all the places where David Paulidse straight up lies in his books. Thank you also for bringing up the fact that Fish might not be a reliable witness. My one quibble would be that when you are talking about the narrative sections of the ranger's book, you make the assertion that the phrase about his journals "being the heart" of those narrative sections means that the editor basically copy//pasted the text from the ranger's journal into his book. I disagree. I feel that phrase as when a movie says, "inspired by the story of..." Sorry for all the comments today. You guys seem very cool and do good work.

[@marikamiddelkoop7105]

You went to a MUCH less violent school than I did. "Don't make snowballs with ice, don't make snowballs with gravel, don't deliberately over pack a snowball so it becomes ice." These were yearly warnings at my school.

[@johnhickman8391]

The ONLY question i have is, how do you leave your friend behind like that. You never ever do that, especially in a survival situation.

[@lunar9342]

The look of something like regret followed immediately by a cut in the cereal ad made me chuckle

[@wrAIth-AI]

KZbin must be loving you guys, because no matter how many times I refresh my screen, this video is always at the top

[@bdr113080]

As someone who has done more than my fair share of hiking and camping, and I am an Eagle Scout, my father actually made me and my brothers all join the Boy Scouts and it was actually a lot of fun. I was in a scout troop where we never wore our uniforms unless it was ceremony time, and we did a lot of adventure camping some of the best time of my life I had with that group. But yeah, the story about the Boy Scouts is crazy to me. You are 100% correct about the buddy system. Why on earth if there was only 10 minutes of cleanup at camp why wouldn’t they just wait for him? I mean it’s not like if you’re in a hurry and you get to the car what if he’s not there by the time you get to the car, you’re leaving him? no you are going to wait for everybody to get there so it doesn’t make any sense just to split somebody up like that. You always want to go out as a group. Especially if you weren’t taking a scout troop camping and yes, one of them is your kid but everyone else there is not your kid you are responsible for them. Why would you even let something happen to where you don’t have your eyes on all of them? There’s something wrong with his story I’m not saying he did anything evil or anything like that but either he has a terrible memory or he’s just the worst scoutmaster ever or he’s just not competent to take young boys camping maybe he’s a nice person. He just should’ve been the last guy to be their scoutmaster, I don’t know but nothing about that sounds right.

[@rrRowboat7]

As far as why teenage boys could get told off for engaging in a snowball fight, I can think of two reasons. 1: they were fooling around in the snow when they were supposed to be doing something else (or expected somewhere else). 2: teenage boys can turn snowball fights into ice chunk fights real quick. But you are right to say that it would have been more rational for Mr. Smith to just wait an extra ten minutes. That said, we might consider that Mr. Smith might not have been in a rational mood just then. At the time, other things besides rationality may interested him more. For example, Mr. Smith might have been a chronic rusher. Some of the nicest people I know get very agitated when they feel they’re going to be late for something. If tensions were a strained for any reason, and if Mr. Smith was a rusher, I could see him leaving his son to himself while the rest got fresh air and a head start.

[@tommykelso3592]

the bit with Aiden in the window sill legit was so good it had me going back to see how long he'd been there lmao

[@maxhall5260]

As a Celsius guy, hoodie/light jacket wheather is a actually a decent alternative if u dont have the actual tempature conversions on hand. Very easy to understand.

[@Megnificent.]

I love all the details, it helps my brain differentiate from similar cases. Thanks for such quality research!

[@llcoolray3000]

Yes, he was abandoned. His "friend" literally left him behind.

[@roosh2927]

Dude left his friend in the middle of the trail, in the middle of winter, with no backpack? Seriously?

[@jamesmryncza2957]

Incredible!! Another fantastic video!!👍You just pulled all the names of dyatlov pass right out of the thin air!! You're crazy sharp, you're the Mad Dog!! These deep dives are amazing, all the work you all do is marvelous!! ✊ Thank you for all your hard work.👍

[@thecatatemyhomework]

I really have respect for the KZbinrs who won't hawk any product that tastes like crap. 99.9% of people hate Magic Spoon. The taste and texture is stomach turning.

[@texasson]

I was out hiking in the Smoky Mountain National Park(in some of these areas) when this dropped. 😶Nothing paranormal happened while I was out there... But had some surprise encounters with black bears, and had a helo land about 50 yds away from me to medivac a hiker from a different group. Edit: After the full video, I agree it is most likely an accident. The 'surprise bear encounters' we had could have easily caused an accident. Such as one of our encounters, we were surprised by a bear about 5 yards(at most) off the trail we were on. This particular trail was maybe 3 ft wide, and one side was about 150 ft drop into a stream, while the side the bear was on, was a steep incline. The bear did give us a good fright with a false charge, and if anyone happened to get overly jumpy, could have easily slipped down the drop. Maybe this is why he was so far off the trail he was last seen. Anyway, the Smokies are beautiful and I encourage folks to go visit and hike.

[@actuallyAtlas1989]

The snowball fight certainly makes Geoff's case more interesting. Especially because of how mad everyone got over it. The only time my parents ever got that pissed over my siblings having a snowball fight was when my brother (younger) gave my sister (older) a black eye bc the snowball he threw had ice in it. Granted, they didn't know about the snowball fights where we would shove snow down eachothers coats. I can't imagine that would be a smart thing to do while camping.

[@kintustis]

If these were everyday situations, 100% healthy relationships, rational behavior, and perfect physical execution, then there wouldn't be a dead guy in the woods. Sometimes you get in a cussing match after several hours of painful marching and a ruined vacation. Sometimes you don't always follow the buddy system if you and your buddy are one word away from a fight. Sometimes following the obvious-in-hindsight wilderness safety guidelines is not the first thing on our minds. Sometimes what you tell the officer is not necessarily lying, but perhaps omitting some details about the interpersonal conflict that make you look bad. And as such, what witnesses tell law enforcement can't always be treated like 100% universal truth. It's so easy to sit behind a screen and type that you'd always make the right decision, that pride would never factor into your sense of outdoor safety. Maybe you are perfect, but most of us are just human.

[@Nathanaelelliott]

From what I can gather. There are some people who have been in certain parks who have come back and explained very weird situations like they are just going about their business on a trail or whatever and they swear they hear a deep growl and from that point they feel almost high or super tired and they separate themselves from any others they are with. They then strip themselves down folding their belongings neatly on the ground or into their bag and they have these thoughts telling them how good it will feel to walk over to this exact spot and somehow the ones who actually told these stories were able to snap out of it and get out of there. I think one was due to their friends returning and finding them. They came back and saw him stripped naked approaching a bush and wanting to lay in a freezing stream. Obviously it sounds insane but I've heard more than two people claim this. They said it was like they were suddenly very drunk and it was the best idea ever to do these things.

[@michaellorah9051]

This whole story is just a tragic case of hypothermia induced confusion imo. It is well documented that hypothermia can cause lapses in judgement and poor decision making. Paradoxical Undressing is merely a small part of that. Combine hypothermia with the fatigue that Mark was feeling as well as panic upon losing or departing the trail and you have a recipe for fatal disaster. I don't believe this was foul play, paranormal or otherwise.

[@JAEUFM]

These sort of events really make you wish someone could come up with a time machine to look back and see what exactly happened.

[@MicahTV420]

MAN i love duh lore lodge, I thought you had to choose between quality and quantity. I guess you can have both :))

[@Kerryjotx]

When people get exhausted and desperate, they can argue and go into survival mode, not caring about the others in their group. I could easily see a scenario where one member is exhausted and doesn’t want to go on and the other one is desperate to get to the shelter and some kind of an argument like, “Fine!!! I don’t care!! You do what you want to do. I’m going to the shelter.” maybe Mr. Fish just did not want to report that they had argued and he basically “stormed off “.

[@CJGatsby]

thanks for the bit from his funeral. that was very meaningful.

[@kaypyles9441]

I just feel like Ben Fish got frustrated, afterall, Hanson said he couldn't carry his backpack any longer & was exhausted. Fish even carried his backpack some distance for him. I think Fish was probably thinking to himself, "What the heck; I'm going on!" When he realized the situation the following day, he was probably devastated, also realized his mistake in leaving him?

[@ChaseFausett]

Yes the lore lads join the hunt for the elves that make magic spoon

[@Joshua-zb2zp]

You know what I find suspicious is that most missing 411 stories is that when the people are going to disappear or already being looked for after going missing is that there is always a storm that will cover any trace

[@beliasphyre3497]

"The kid in me likes the frosted side. The adult in me likes the kid in me."

[@stephenpmurphy591]

Uh oh, that makes me uncomfortable..

[@beliasphyre3497]

"hee hee"

[@amandam6263]

Definitely thought something was off with The Hague story. So glad yall addressed that. Thanks for your work!! 🤓

[@jaredgott1804]

2:45 that was slick ngl

[@juliemanarin4127]

This is why I DONT GO HIKING...CAVING OR DIVING!

[@FrozeMoments]

I’m a neighbor to the Smokies in Cherokee National Forest. I plan on going out like this one day. I’ve watched everyone I love waste away or die young. I tell my wife of 20 years to take me on a hike and lose me.

[@trustworthydan]

I live in Kentucky, my parents used to take us down to Cherokee like every weekend. I miss those days.

[@lowwastehighmelanin]

Why would you put that on her dude? Not cool.

[@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind]

It's one thing to take a walk and never come back, but an entirely different thing to tell your wife that you want her to take you. That is dumb

[@calci2679]

I hope you find some healing. Please don’t ever do this.

[@kingiam9271]

Get lost bro