Missing 411: The Aaron Hedges Mystery Revisited

Aaron Hedges went missing in the Crazy Mountains of Montana in 2014. Despite the fact that these mountains are extremely easy to navigate, and have only one other serious missing person case in the last century, Aaron was not found for several years. What happened? Welcome back to The Lore Lodge…
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[@Mkylu]

I grew up in Montana. Here is some context that can help. Hunters are very concerned about wildlife rangers and get very dodgy, especially if a kill was on private land. Rangers are very aggressive with their investigations in MT. Also, they could have been hunting in public land. But after the elk got shot, then it ran to private land and died. It happens a lot because elk will stay in non hunted private land since no one hunts them there, and when they get shot, they will try to run to safety in the private land. This would make sense to me why they were angry at their friend, not helping them clean and move the Elk. They would have been nervous in case a ranger would come by, and they would have wanted to move the Elk as fast a possible. If they were planning on poaching, they would have had a vehicle, and all of them would have been together. As for the gun only having 3 bullets. He probably had more and then shot them off in 3s to get the attention of his friends, but they were not searching for him. Then he probably kept 3 bullets in case he heard or saw someone to get their attention. 3 shots are known for signaling distress. Looks like to me 3 friends over confidant about their skills and not realizing how the cold, drinking, alcoholism, and prescription drugs can affect a person.

[@Cognitoman]

Exactly

[@travisn346]

I'd love to live in Montana. Sounds like heaven to me. What are your favorite small towns?

[@Cognitoman]

@@travisn346 I from montana it’s nice I lived up upper north west, more mountains

[@R0KURU]

Great points

[@brycealthoff8092]

I can’t speak for the hunting laws in other states because I’ve only ever hunted my home state of Iowa. But here if you shoot an animal on public land or private land you have permission to hunt and it wanders onto another’s property after you wound it, you are allowed to go onto their land to track the animal.

[@r-pupz7032]

I'm a doctor and have some experience in treating alcohol dependence. Alcohol withdrawal isn't like opioid withdrawal - it's not just unpleasant, but dangerous. It frequently causes intense agitation and hallucinations, as well as seizures, which can be fatal. Chlordiazepoxide is pretty much only used for alcohol withdrawal in the UK. It has a fairly long half-life (around 30 hours) which means it can provide a very smooth taper. It is also believed to be more anxiolytic (good at reducing anxiety) and less hypnotic (sedating/drowsy) than some other benzos. The thinking goes that this could make it a bit safer than a more sedating benzo if the patient were to drink while taking it. Still a very bad idea though, as this could easily cause severe impairment and could lead to overdose. In the UK it's only really given in an inpatient setting or under close supervision in the community. This is conjecture, but my guess is that Aaron did intend to detox himself up in the mountains. Many patients don't like loved ones seeing them during detox, and it isn't unheard of for people to head out into nature, whether for spiritual reasons or just to get away. In-patient detox can also be very expensive, especially in the US. So if you don't want to do it in the community with your loved ones, and you can't afford inpatient, taking yourself off to the mountains could seem like an attractive option. If this was Aaron's plan, he likely would have saved the chlordiazepoxide and would be drinking on the trip, but potentially starting to taper down (which fits with "drinking less than he usually would on a hunting trip".) Tapering down can also cause agitation and might cause paranoia, disorientation, hallucinations etc depending on how much he drank and how quickly he tapered. To add to that, even if he was fine when he begun the taper, once he started taking chlordiazepoxide he would have had to titrate it accurately to ensure the detox went as smoothly as possible. Too much, and the benzos would cause confusion, impaired judgement etc. Too little, and alcohol withdrawal could also cause confusion and impaired judgement, along with paranoia, hallucinations, and - potentially - fatal seizures. This could explain why he was so close to the ranch. Perhaps he was paranoid, or too impaired to realise. Or maybe he wanted to stick it out and complete the detox out in nature, but the snowstorm overcame him. I have no knowledge of hunting, or this part of the world, but I do know a bit about alcohol detox and chlordiazepoxide, so wanted to contribute!

[@jeje1020]

As a recovering drunk, I too have some experience. You have to be pretty far gone to experience the kinds of withdrawal symptoms that you are describing. I was in and out of treatment centers for 25 years, only the last time did I experience withdrawals that impaired in any way and I walked in blowing a .41 (walking, talking and I remember much of it) I think if he had progressed that far into alcoholism, his friends wouldn't have even wanted to hunt with the guy. A person is never truly sober at that point. My guess is he wasn't continuing sobriety, had stopped taking his med, was agitated because he wanted to drink and went off by himself so he could drink. Drunkenness in dangerous elements is a recipe for death, and he got lost because he was drunk.

[@proudmilitarybrat76]

I hope your first paragraph is just poorly written. Opioid withdrawal can definitely be very dangerous and deadly just like booze. It can cause all those things you listed for alcohol withdrawals.

[@sazzlepopz1553]

Thanks for your contribution, I found it very interesting. I think your professional experience gives it great value.

[@scallopohare9431]

1. Alcoholics can be very secretive, and his friends may not have realized how much trouble he was having. 2. Opioid withdrawal can be fatal, but the admittedly brief search I just did fails to distinguish between older forms, like heroin, and newer ones like fentanyl. Heroin withdrawal was unpleasant, but did not require medical supervision.

[@proudmilitarybrat76]

@@scallopohare9431 hi ☺ Sounds like you over came an addiction. Congratulations. I'm proud of you. ♥ There's no opioid/illegal drug (I don't consider Marijuana a drug in this scenario) that cannot be fatal when withdrawing. It's major trauma on your body both physically and mentally (probably preaching to the choir lol), so seizures, blood pressure issues, clotting, suicide, etc...can quickly happen. That's why they always recommend addicts seek help when they detox. I have a malignant brain tumor and I was on a huge dose of Oxy. Almost 300 mg a day. I decided to use weed for my pain and stopped cold turkey. The 4th day, I thought I was going to die and I tolerate pain like a boss. Lol 😂 It was horrible. I hadn't slept and I had restless legs, but all over. The 5th day I finally called my doctor and told him what I did and he went off. He sent me to the emergency room and they gave me a muscle relaxer, nausea meds, and something to knock me out. I slept for 18 hours straight. Woke up and I was fine. I had to have brain surgery again and I wasn't touching shit.

[@skyekeating349]

As a former Xanax addict I want to point out that benzos can actually cause irritability. When you start to come down off the effects it can cause extreme anger and/or sadness. I got into multiple fights with friends of mine as the benzos I was taking began to wear off. So it is completely possible that the benzo was causing him to be irritable.

[@heather0928]

I have to agree with you. My best friend was prescribed Xanax and when her doctor stopped giving her them, it was hell. I can't imagine what that feels like but the way she treated people tells me it's no joke.

[@incredibleedibledez]

I also agree. Xanax made me irritable and bitchy. I fought with my friends and family & wouldn’t even remember after the fact.

[@StygianNightmare]

I can also back this up as a former addict

[@incredibleedibledez]

i was never physically addicted to them. All of my irritability occurred while i was under the effects of the medicine. They prescribed Xanax for a short time after i was diagnosed with ms in 09 because i was having a hard time dealing with it. I hated the way they made me feel & eventually the Dr switched me to klonopin which had a much less drastic effect on me. Now I did end up addicted to the handfuls of pain pills (then eventually fentanyl patches) the drs had me on & i would get super irritable when i was kicking that shit. I haven’t taken a narcotic to get high in over eight years. I ain’t ever going back there! ✌🏻 to all my other addicts in recovery. to those still in the trenches, i pray every day to lift y’all up

[@carnuatus]

Thank you for pointing this out. I've had friends who have been on them and a former significant other who was addicted to them. For him to say they don't cause irritability was very confusing to me.

[@andrewkelley9405]

the alcohol being omitted COMPLETELY changes the context of this story.

[@gregorybolin4672]

He did

[@perpetualsick]

@@gregorybolin4672?

[@how2alive79]

Anecdote, I took benzos and drank and ended up trying to take money out of an ATM. My friend informs me the ATM in question was actually a bush so getting lost and making bad decisions leading to death totally checks out

[@brandibucko]

I know I’ve done some stuuuupid stuff while on the two, or just too many benzos. I’m trying to think of some examples, but that’s just the thing. I can’t remember! Idk how I got out of that segment of my life, but I’m glad I did

[@ZacherySomething]

No you didn’t but it’s your lie, you live it.

[@kyleighwheeless3035]

I think the creepiest part of this story is the quote, "The grizzlies aren't here yet, but they're coming."

[@Junglehunter677]

Thank the DNR for that. A few decades ago there was a plan to introduce a small population of Grizzly bears to help keep the black bears and mountain lions population numbers under control. It was quickly abandoned when the Rangers realized it would not only be extensively time consuming to aquire wild Grizzlies, and that introducing 1000lb apex predators built like tanks into a zone with no natural predators was a very very bad idea

[@PippisMom]

Oops! 🐻

[@wenn9366]

@@Junglehunter677 I heard on the news that a judge just ordered them to make a plan to bring them in.

[@ShrexyGuy]

It could be cause grizzlies are there west of Yellowstone county, where the crazies are located. Maybe they hibernate near by

[@annestrada1724]

Yeah. Thanks to the "get back to nature the way it was before white folks ran off the predators" folks

[@maxwellschneiter]

Great video. One thing I wanted to mention was that Greg had never met Aaron prior to this trip, so that probably explains his attitude during questioning. Also, alcohol withdrawal can cause hallucinations (so called "Pink Elephants") so that could also explain why Aaron was "lost" or simply refused to come down out of the mountains when he still could.

[@janemiettinen5176]

In Finland that is called “night of the lizards”. When I was a kid I thought it was some kind of attraction, like a haunted house or something. My disappointment was immense when I learned it wasnt.

[@jennybtx]

​@@phillipstroll7385 You are a sick dude Phillip. Get some help.

[@sebastianwhalin743]

​@@phillipstroll7385 You're a psycho

[@siegebot82]

​@@phillipstroll7385you're the one that gets dick Cheyney'd on the hunting trip lmfao, after all god would've lead u to that moment.

[@Bevaboo]

@@phillipstroll7385 - If you were really a Christian, you'd know that the Lord commands us -- meaning it's not optional -- "Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself." -- Galatians 6:2-3 In other words, if you come in contact with *anyone* who is suffering and you have the power to help them, you really ought to. I doubt if any of the people involved in this case were Christians, and if you want to be one, I would suggest that you spend more time reading God's word and trying to follow His commands. We all fail, and I doubt there's any Christian who acts perfectly as God commands, because the only perfect human ever was Christ. That being said, if you want to truly follow Christ, one of the best places to start is by learning forgiveness. If Aaron had truly not met Greg before the trip, I'd say Joe wasn't a friend to him at all. If Joe was aware of what Aaron was going through, alcohol shouldn't have even been considered an option, and he shouldn't have been allowed to wander off on his own for any reason. Maybe he didn't know? Based on this video, it's really hard for me to tell.

[@lisavandenhoven5672]

Aidan, look into the phenomenon called Delirium Tremens. It is a sort of confusion that affects some people when they quit heavy use of alcohol cold turkey. It would account for strange behavior and poor decision making, and is sometimes mistaken by people for being really drunk, which would explain the text about "contact me when you are sober".

[@marhawkman303]

yeah, we don't have radio logs, but the nature of those conversations might have been angry.

[@MarvinHartmann452]

He has benzo prescribed to him to prevent this.

[@richardmoore609]

​@@MarvinHartmann452 that he clearly wasn't taking regularly since he wasn't out of them yet

[@eugeniaskelley5194]

@@richardmoore609 Do you know how many he had left. Maybe he was going to finish the course of the benzos on the trip.

[@feuerein]

Regarding the revolver being shot and it being half-loaded - it's fairly well known almost universally among hunters/outdoorsmen that 3 shot evenly spaced out is used to signal needing help/assistance and/or being lost.

[@siegebot82]

I saw this but someone made an interesting point, what model was his .44? Bc if it was a 5 round cylinder then the SOS theory goes out the window, otherwise it makes perfect sense

[@eugeniaskelley5194]

Did the revolver still have the spent cartridges in it. (half loaded) If they were missing and he only had three bullets in it I would say was down to 3 bullets.

[@HeyRonni]

Having grown up around gruff outdoorsmen my whole life I can say that it isn't out of the ordinary for an irritated man who feels abandoned by their friend to call someone that said friend would definitely be in contact with [such as a wife or parent] and say 'is (person) alive?' as a means of showing your frustration with their disappearance/abandonment. Additionally, telling someone who is likely to have constant and uninterrupted cell service to call the authorities to report a missing person in a remote area seems like a good practice, especially if you came down to a place with service specifically to make calls to try and locate or get a report on the person and plan to go back into the wilderness looking for them once your calls are done.

[@dudeguy1049]

Ok, I want to say this. I appreciate that when you gain new information, or when you make mistakes you admit it and correct it. THAT, alongside how much you show your research and offer alternative answers is part of why I love this channel. Keep up the good work guys

[@JackEverfree]

38:56 Three shots in rapid succession is a very well known SOS signal. Could have been that he was trying to get someone’s attention went through at least 3 shells and decided to save the last three for if he knew someone was close.

[@LilyoftheLake14]

This is the most logical reason I've seen to explain why he had the 3 rounds left.

[@gavinbennett6338]

beat me to it :-)

[@HiFiAwardTour]

This is the answer.

[@TheOrginalPrincessColey]

Or he could have used the shots to scare off animals also

[@Ekdrink]

@@TheOrginalPrincessColey won’t really scare off most predators. Most actually recognize them as a dinner bell. Bears have learned that a majority of the time it means a prey animal has been killed

[@lizardkeeper100]

In alpine areas FRS radios can have a much farther reach than in a flat area because the signals bounce off the mountains and thus you are more likely to receive it. I have heard of raidos like they have work only 2 miles when in flat areas but up to 7ish miles in alpine areas. I think the farthest I have ever gotten one to receive was about 4 miles away.

[@farmerboy916]

Would that make the (presumably based on the signal direction and distance) map screen unreliable here as well?

[@jeffreymorris1752]

I have two of those Rinos. They can send the gps data a lot further than intelligible speech. I've had them update a friends location when he called from 6 miles away when I didn't even receive his voice call other than a click and some static. That was in a mountainous area of Wyoming.

[@farmerboy916]

@@jeffreymorris1752 I suppose that makes sense, but is the location going to be accurate with signal bounce?

[@NormalPersonCommenting]

Radio propagation is a whole can of worms. Would be awesome to get some experts out there and have them run some tests. It's not unrealistic, the distances they claim in their specific case.

[@NormalPersonCommenting]

@@farmerboy916 The location would be determined using GPS on the device, and sent as coordinates. It takes much more work to transmit a voice signal than a short data signal, hence why the Garmin unit can operate as Jeffery Morris suggests.

[@hannahbeanies8855]

My mom is an alcoholic who has been in and out of recovery most of my life. She used to insist that various people around her could drink and she would be fine because she didn’t want to ruin anyone’s fun or be an inconvenience. Sometimes she would drink, other times she wouldn’t. To me it just seems like his friends just didn’t know any better about alcoholism to not listen to Aaron, not necessarily being irresponsible. Both the friends reactions seem like normal responses to feeling guilty for what happened. I think most people would feel some level of guilt if that happened, especially at first. Thoughts like “we could’ve stopped him” or “we shouldn’t have listened to him and bring booze” etc. One friend is ate up with it and the other is doing his best to convince himself and everyone else that it isn’t their fault BECAUSE he feels guilty. Plus it sounds like they happened to be doing some illegal activity on the trip they were trying to cover up. It’s late. I hope this comment makes sense. Anyway I don’t think the friends were acting weird at all for the circumstances

[@carnuatus]

Ehhh. While someone says that, maybe don't be an asshole and drink around someone who is in recovery, especially if you're going to be in close proximity during something like a hunting trip. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@hannahbeanies8855]

@@carnuatus I definitely don’t disagree.

[@AlbertScoot]

Stories like this always push me to give the people involved the benefit of the doubt despite how "guilty" circumstances may make them seem. I have been in almost the exact situation that these two were in, where someone recovering from alcohol abuse went missing in a place they should know well. When I got back home I asked the guy's wife if he'd come back home and then had her deal with a missing person report because I didn't want to have to deal with him again. Naturally a few hours later he returned home, without contacting me like nothing had happened.

[@Mephilis78]

Were you getting drunk around your recovering friend like these two idiots were?

[@eugeniaskelley5194]

Was the person you were with on benzos to stop drinking or were they just sh*t faced the entire time, obnoxious and dangerous.

[@raffishrabbit]

It definitely seems like Greg and Joe believed that Aaron was off the wagon during the trip and were fed up with him causing issues due to his addiction. If they thought Aaron's odd behavior was due to him drinking, they were probably frustrated and didn't think it was their problem to deal with, hence calling Aaron's wife and having her figure out how to find or get ahold of him after they walked away from the situation. That said, leaving a friend you believed to be under the influence alone to his own devices in freezing temperatures with minimal supplies is very hard to justify, especially to investigators, even if it was meant to be a moment of "tough love". Even though it might not be outright foul-play, it's still negligent to leave someone behind in an altered condition. Throw potential poaching charges on top of that and it kinda tracks that Greg and Joe were being a bit cagey and defensive with the police. In regards to the smaller footprints found in the area, could it be that there was just a discrepancy between the size of Aaron's boot prints and the other lighter shoes he may have changed into while bow hunting? I know that my own hiking boots have a much larger profile compared to my lighter, more flexible shoes and could be mistaken for quite a smaller size when compared

[@SirRavixofFourhorn]

I'm sorry but how is it they're responsibility that a grown man was dumb enough to get lost on his own in the woods.

[@raffishrabbit]

@@SirRavixofFourhorn I certainly wouldn't say that they're responsible for Aaron getting lost, he left of his own volition, but it makes sense for people to ask why Joe and Greg didn't do more to look for Aaron before leaving the area. It's clear that they didn't want or expect anything truly bad to happen to their friend, though

[@mobiusone6994]

@@SirRavixofFourhorn being a decent human being is really hard huh?

[@chuckn4851]

@@SirRavixofFourhorn Oh I don't know man, maybe because they purported to be his good friends? Regardless of someone's personal issues, and if it were meant to be a "tough love" situation (which has been proven time and time again to be more likely to be harmful than helpful), if you wouldn't take on some form of responsibility to try to help your friend lost in the woods, then you need to do some soul-searching of your own.

[@carnuatus]

​@@SirRavixofFourhorn If they knew he was trying to get off the wagon, while drinking themselves and that inadvertently caused him to go missing... Uh. That absolutely is on them. Also, if they were so bothered, why would they even invite him if they were so concerned about his sobriety. However, other behavior of theirs during this whole thing makes me highly suspicious of them.

[@regulusmasamuneryuku8657]

On the arrows, as someone who does mostly target shooting. The type of arrows you use for target practice and hunting are different. You do NOT want to use a nice hunting tip on a target, they are insaaannely expensive. If he was target shooting, he would have more than likely used target tips, which are very small. As someone whose shot in prairie areas: it's really easy to loose arrows. If they don't hit the target outside, there is a 95% chance that you are never seeing that arrow again. We have a small piece of land with trees around it out in the country: my uncle's occasionally find my arrows when they mow, because they went into super grassy areas. Arrows can also bury themselves in the dirt. You need a metal detector to find those-if the tips are even made of metal. The other thing about carbon arrows: they are designed to shatter in a way that stays together. Kinda like how a car crumples. You don't get like, shrapnel everywhere; carbon arrows are more fibrous when they break/shatter. This is for safety. Shooting an arrow can break a weak one, and carbon bows can also break. It's rare but it happens. But even if the people searching knew the exact direction the guy was target practicing in. Arrows can and will travel 90-120 yards, or further. Depending on the terrain and bow strength. Long story short: it's not that uncommon that no one found any evidence of an archer shooting there. I'll shush now

[@invictusbp1prop143]

Very true. I've lost arrows in my own backyard when they hit the ground at a shallow angle and slide up under the grass in the lawn and find them days weeks or months later when for whatever reason, the fletchings suddenly just appear plain as day.

[@pepperkilldevelopment9069]

To take advice from a chair rat in general is bad . He criticizes David Paulidis he talks about documents he never seen me never left his studio doubt he ever seen bow and arrow . What do you expect 😅

[@brujachingona2175]

​@@pepperkilldevelopment9069another blind Paulides sycophant.

[@gruBkiN]

The first Aaron Hedges video was my first video on this channel. I think it's cool that you guys went back and recovered it with more details and corrections.

[@mountainmamma1643]

Very interesting story but sadly if drugs/alcohol is involved it completely removes any "logical" explanations because withdrawal will make you do some illogical things

[@TheJonesChannel11]

Two takes I got from this, and one thing I want you to know about radios. 1. Radios; There are radio "upgrades", (for lack of a better word), you can obtain that allows the radio to transmit and receive further away. Or the manufacturer underestimated their radios. 2. The lack of clarity for conversation tells me this. While those two men were field dressing the elk, they were more than likely thinking negatively about Aaron the entire time, (maybe even before), and that mindset consumed them and caused their own judgement of their friend to be criticized. They did not care about Aaron after he didn't help them with the elk. They also had alcohol on them and drank around a recovering alcoholic. Those two are assholes.

[@thedarkmage7373]

It bounced around by the mountain. I bet it's 2mi on flat land

[@twoheadedboypt2]

​@@thedarkmage7373I own and have used Garmin rinos while riding quads and hunting. They are shite in mountainous area. Great for just tracking your path as it had got myself and some friends back when lost one time.

[@eugeniaskelley5194]

This was also Arron responsibility. If you are in recovery the last place you want to go is where you are used to drinking or know there will alcohol there. They most likely always drank on these hunting trips. Arron probably thought he could handle it because he was on his benzos. He got there and decided he could have a little and it set this in action with the drugs in his system.

[@brujachingona2175]

Aaron is the asshole.

[@davidjones1164]

As a recovering alcoholic I would not be surprised if Aaron had insisted that they bring alcohol because he'd be fine. Then when they went hunting he was either drinking before he lift or he took the alcohol with him when he lift and was drunk when they radioed him. You honestly can't blame them to much for having alcohol especially if they've never really had to deal with it before, which honestly we don't know. I also wouldn't be surprised if Aaron got them the alcohol and gave it to them to show that he was "just fine around it".

[@dangerxbadger2300]

Yup. I meant to add that in my comment too

[@eugeniaskelley5194]

I would agree, but probably what happen in my opinion was Arron though he would be fine because he was on benzos and wouldn't drink. He got there and drank a little and this put everything into action. They probably always drank on these hunting trips. When you are first in recovery, they tell you stay away from places and people who drink. He probably told himself " I can have a little. It won't hurt.'" Do we know if Arron was active in AA at that point. If he had been most likely his sponsor would have told him that is a bad idea to go on that trip still detoxing off of alcohol.

[@Hearthburn1]

In fairness, "Is alive?" is something I ask about my friends all the time, even when there's no indication they're in danger and I haven't murdered them. Heck, if I don't hear from a friend from a week or so I'll text *them* to ask if they're alive. ...as we get older, this is someday probably going to turn out poorly.

[@TK-ui2th]

i was thinking it was a little weird that they seem to be taking that quote literally, lol. i use it just as, "havent heard from you for a while, whats up?" not as in, i actually have reason to worry they died. you make a good point though.. as we get older that might be more risky 😂

[@honeycrispsnail4032]

i say that to my best friend’s boyfriend when she’s not answering for a few hours while studying or whatever lmfao. i hope that someday it won’t be taken in a bad sense like this.

[@scottwooledge6387]

Yeah. It sounded weird but I think you’re right. It was just said in the same way my mom says “Are you alive?” on my voicemail when I don’t call for a week. She doesn’t honestly think I am dead.

[@Your_local_therian_weirdo]

Can you do a video about Christopher Thompkins? It's one of the weirdest cases and I want to see his story from y'all because you do such a good job getting all the right information 🫠

[@Mach11976]

We're can I read about that if you don't mind letting me know?

[@Your_local_therian_weirdo]

@Brian Felt It's in the books but I don't remember which one...if you search his name on Google though there are articles and a KZbin video by the channel Storytelling Imperfectly

[@Mach11976]

@@Your_local_therian_weirdo thanks so much, have a great weekend! I am forever forgetting Goggle lol

[@rachelamsterdam1106]

Is he the one that left his wife that absolutely horrific voice mail? If so, it’s def one of the most f’ed up things I’ve ever heard in my life.

[@Deebeez716]

​@Rachel Amsterdam I think the horrible voice-mail is the story of Henry McCabe. The Missing Enigma covered that story a few months ago and added more information than I'd heard before

[@Lardex.Destroyer_of_Beans]

They left in three different cuts of Aiden talking about what Joe and Greg said about Aaron’s alcohol abuse to authorities

[@decaffeinatedcolombian]

Thank you for saying this lol I thought I was the only that noticed

[@Lardex.Destroyer_of_Beans]

@@decaffeinatedcolombian no problem dawg

[@jksngtrs90]

Did it again about seeing the men on trespass creek or whatever lol

[@foxenstinevon.gaming12]

I thought my video broke for a second lmao

[@emily.g.929]

I thought I had major deja vu lol

[@Warlock_Sack]

Babe I can’t pick up the kids Lore Lodge just uploaded.

[@TheAdequateMedia]

everytime i've had a friend do something OVER the top and insane, Xanax/Benzos were often involved. I've had some bad times on them myself and could very easily imagine myself getting lost. One time a childhood best friend picked me up to go somewhere and he'd already been "popping xannies" and pounding redbulls... well there's a sub division sign made from a brick with a pylon at each corner, As we approached i literally warned him by way of screaming "bro we're gonna hit that shit" (4ish seconds before impact) to which he turned to me, cocked an eyebrow 🤨"Jake i don't hi... gggchchhchCCRRASH"

[@lalli8152]

Especially if drinking was involved since benzos mixes with alcohol. I think the ones i had described were same as this individual in the video, and when i drank as i was taking them even though i didnt go crazy or anything i had blackouts pretty much. I can only imagine how dissorientated you would be in the woods while experiencing that, and then the later withdrawal. Mixing alcohol, and benzos to me felt like i drank way more than i did

[@TheAdequateMedia]

@@lalli8152 In my case it was just bars alone. but regardless you're one hundred percent correct, definitely an insane combo

[@Novsev9069]

I was always told if you ever get lost hunting you shoot three shots in the air that would explain why there’s three missing maybe he was saving the last three for a dire situation

[@jollygreentank1131]

As a truck driver I have a bit of exp with CB radios and also AM band radio. I also am no expert but can say the effective range of radio signals is highly dependent on weather and elevation. A "2 mile" range can be easily extended by either clear sky's or thick clouds. So much so that on a particularly ideal night I have picked up radio signals in Texas that originated as far away as Chicago IL. So take all "range limits" as more of a "in worst case scenario" reach limits in my opinion. Second also as a truck driver that has Simi regular delivery location I can say, even when delivering to a very very well known to me location, even small changes in mental state or laps in attention can cause you to miss a very obvious well known turn. Heck even time of day can make you feel lost if it's outside your normal. As a primarily night driving trucker, being on a well known road in the day time feels odd many times. Being able to see more is not always helpful when you are custom to seeing limited land marks.

[@suzettefaircloth5037]

Back when my son was in active addiction he would drink 2 liters a day of Vodka. 1 pint of alcohol doesn't seem like it was that bad by comparison. However I absolutely can NOT understand why they weren't checking on or looking for their friend, especially if he was acting strangely and knew he was drinking.

[@dangerxbadger2300]

As someone who has spent a ton of time both living and vacationing in Montana, and also have been around a lot of people who've struggled with substance use(and having struggled myself with several substances)I can tell you a couple of things. One, benzo withdrawal makes a person completely insufferable(understandably so, its a BEAR to kick, so no lack of empathy here, just calling it how it is) and benzo use makes them spacy, nonsensical and annoying to deal with(lots of short term memory issues, random nodding, long winded and overconfident spurts of conversation that are usually pure nonsense, lots of gaslighting and denial of being as high as they appear to be, a lack of empathy and inhibitions which sometimes leads to them saying downright cruel shit; not everyone acts like that but SO MANY DO and its legit like trying to deal with a stoned, mean toddler). With the social culture and attitude of a LOT of the men I knew up there, it isnt surprising they brought booze for themselves, may even have given Aaron some to take the edge off and/or got pissed when he snuck some(this wouldve also intensified any benzo effects), and it definitely wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if Aaron *was* going through benzo withdrawal or alcohol withdrawal, that his friends were so desperate to get rid of his bitchy ass(have literally heard people say this type of thing about their own family members, machismo culture is HEAVY up in Big Sky Country and addiction is looked at as weakness and misunderstood bc ppl "dont get why you dont just stop")who they may have felt were bringing their trip down, that they were fine with him going off because they understood that he was familiar with the area and thought the alone time would chill him out. When they checked in to let him know about the kill, he may have sounded loaded. This also very well may have been the umpteenth time this group had dealt w Aaron being flaky or screwing a trip up w his using or withdrawal, so they may have had a camels back moment, said fuck it, let him figure it out on his own, he knows we are leaving Wednesday so we'll see him then. Come Wednesday when they still hadn't heard from him(remember camels back moment), maybe assuming he'd made it to the cache which might also have had a stash of pills or booze, then assumed he was either high in the woods or at home and sent the snotty texts to him and his girl. Keep in mind, I'm not excusing the behavior or trying to justify it in any way and think it irresponsible and cruel and suspicious as fuck. I'm merely trying to provide some illumination because I have had "fuck it" moments myself, both as someone who has struggled with substance use and having had close people to me who have struggled with substance use, and bc I've seen how those who have not struggled respond to those who have, both in situations of withdrawal and relapse. They absolutely should have shown more concern for him, but may have also been at the end of that rope, having shown plenty of concerns for him over the years only to have that concern either thrown back in their face or used in some way to exploit them. Very selfish and immature, but not outside of the realm of possibility. If anyone actually read this whole thing, thank you lol EDIT my description of benzo use is related to ppl who abuse it, not folks who take it normally, for the record.

[@Dripping-Liquidity]

How would you travel all that distance on drugs and alcohol though? I do find it weird Dave omitted that but I wouldn’t be surprised if his friends and family did not want him to use that out of respect for Aaron. Either way I just cannot see him traveling all that distance through rugged terrain, in the snow, fucked up on alcohol and benzos. He likely would have injured himself.

[@eugeniaskelley5194]

He wasn't withdrawing from the benzos. He was withdrawing from alcohol. From the video he was still in a 2-week course of taking them. The kind of withdrawal that you experienced on them is long term abuse. I think the mixture of alcohol and the benzos started him on the horrific journey to his demise.

[@dangerxbadger2300]

@@eugeniaskelley5194 benzodiazapine withdrawal can begin as early as a week of consistently taking them, prescribed or otherwise. Furthermore, it isn't just abuse that causes it, long term anxiety patients who take it *as prescribed* experience withdrawal, too.

[@mattschwanger4387]

So I used to be an addict for a long time and if he were to have still been taking the benzos, by previously not taking them for some reason, and drank on them then the result for sure would have been a uncoordinated and agitated state, especially if he saved the benzos and took them all at once. You stop making sense, can't remember things from 10 seconds ago, can barely stand, and anger is something that comes up quite, quite often with this combo. Not being able to hit a target right in front of you is also extremely likely. In that state it makes total sense that he would have not recognized landmarks and kept going. If this is the case everything falling from the mule was probably his fault too and having been in that state, and had to deal with people in that state, I can understand how his two friends would be so pissed off by that point that they wouldn't want anything to do with the situation and would try and hand it all off to someone else at the first possible instant. Edit: I know what the doctor said, but I've seen time and time again that doctors don't totally understand how things effect people in actuality because they just weren't taught that part in school. Any addict out there who is familiar with themselves or other people using this combo will tell you the same thing. Edit 2: benzos at low doses do not cause this but the more you take the more the effects change. Not every drug causes the same effects at low doses or high doses, and mixing in another substance can also change the effects dramatically

[@HorrorHermitofHell]

I have been prescribed many benzos but have never heard of the one he mentioned...is the one he was on not part of the pam family of benzos?

[@MarvinHartmann452]

No they don't do that if you take these as prescribed as you said. I take them as a sleeping aid. I just feel relaxed but nothing close to being impaired. Here they give people librium to prevent delirium tremens and seizures caused by alcohol withdrawal.

[@jturtle5318]

​@@HorrorHermitofHellit has a long half-life and isn't used much in the US for alcohol withdrawal.

[@nicwelch]

Paulides seems to leave out important information and/or change details to suit his narrative. He then lashes out at anyone who attempts to correct the record. Some of his fans are also somewhat over zealous in defending him.

[@MarvinHartmann452]

I think he's the kind of guy who already make up his mind on the causes of disappearances. He seems that he's a firm believer in bigfoot stories which cloud his jugement. Sorry for the bad English, it's not my language.

[@nitiad4564]

I found your channel through Wendigoon and I have watched all of your videos and are constantly chomping at the bit for more. Keep up the good work!

[@brandoncobb2659]

I really resonate with you on a personal level. Already saw lots of this dude on other channels. But your take is better. Good stuff as always bro.

[@Silver_Girl178]

What else was in that cache that Gregg and Joe wanted to deal with/find before the searchers got up there? Also, why would Aaron take his boots off, if he didn't have his "slippers" with him at the time? Either whatever they were really doing up there went wrong, and they let Aaron take the fall because he was already messed up- and they were pissed at him- before they understood how far whatever it was would go. Or they always knew what he was going up there to do, and they just didn't want to tell his wife that...maybe so that insurance would go ahead and pay out to her.

[@calebreynolds9183]

Hunters shed their boots if they’re hunting mobile. If he had left his hunting moccasins he would have had to went barefoot.

[@andreweden9405]

What's also crazy, is that the story about the pioneer woman running off into the mountains, took place the same year as the infamous Donner Party incident.

[@Douglas_I]

I live in Bozeman and have a friend that worked at a bar Aaron would come in a lot and talk to him. He, my friend, says Aaron was a really nice guy. Most people I know think there's no doubt the elk was poached. That alone creates a problem. The two friends behavior could be because they were trying to hide the poaching or because they know more about what happened to Aaron then they want anyone to know. It sounds to me like they were not thrilled with his drinking and maybe they let him go on his own because of that and now really feel guilty. I really don't know, no one does but Aaron and the 2 friends. I think there's more to the story than they want to share though. This brings up something else though. With this case and the Kuntz case from the first missing 411 movie that makes one of both movies major storylines likely nothing more than the usual humans being evil. I hate that Paulides is so willing to bend his own rules to include these cases because it makes it look like missing 411 is just another topic that belongs on coast to coast am and nothing else. That sucks because I really think there's more to it and now the two movies do nothing but make the mainstream think it's all crap. Oh well I guess. Thanks for the good video and so the extra info! That was really well done. RIP Aaron.

[@marhawkman303]

One thing occurred to me... and this is that the two friends seemed SUPER pissed as Aaron. Hard to say why, but it was "I don't feel like talking to you this week" level of pissed. My take on the Missing 411 thing... is that Paulides is cashing in on other people's misfortune. :/ He's not doing any useful research. He barely even talks about cases, All he accomplishes is "raising awareness".... but muddies the waters while doing so.... and makes money selling books.

[@zoefelix650]

I'd agree, and that sucks. It's great he brought attention to it, but muddy the waters is a great way to put it I have a gift of hearing the unseen, like victims that died, pleading their side on interrogation videos, and feel I can really help find out what happened to alot of these missing people I've tried to contact David and tell him this but no response. Guess money isn't made if it's solved? But I really want to help with this gift but no one takes me seriously or calls me back. Like, I know where Dylan Rounds is, but not one person has gotten back to me when I've called EVERYONE to tell them...like David, I think no body is more fame, and it sux for him, and everyone else yelling at me ro help them. If I can help you guys I'd love to... All I need is a video or audio recording and I can silence front voices to hear the ones behind...the ones missing...

[@proudmilitarybrat76]

He got "facts" wrong in the Kunz case as well.

[@Douglas_I]

@@zoefelix650 that's really interesting! David Paulides says in many of his KZbin videos that if you have the ability to find a missing person then do it and "I'll make you famous." He loves to say that when he's asked if he's ever used psychics to help find someone. I believe he says to grab one of his books and find a case near you to solve then bring it to him when you figure it out and "I'll make you famous" but "I have never had that happen."

[@Douglas_I]

@@marhawkman303 I thought it was interesting and mysterious but I follow his channel here on KZbin and he buys into far fetched topics really easily. He also started a series he calls "factual news" where he talks mostly about political topics and spews one sided partisan garbage. I have gotten into many arguments with him on that channel. And I'm not trying to say he's wrong on what he says but to call it factual is a joke and he likes to pretend he's being is news but it's always one side. He hasn't blocked me though which makes me respect him a little more. I don't go get into screaming match kind of arguments I just usually point out that he's only talking about one side of the topics. I'm getting off topic though sorry. My point is this, I didn't think he was completely motivated by making money at first. I still don't but I think it is definitely a big part of it which makes it difficult to fully believe. He just leaves it some really important details sometimes that are not hard for even myself to find. He claims to do extensive research though so there's no way he's not discovering the important details and choosing to leave them out. So he obviously knows the more mysterious stories are his money makers and he doesn't want to lose that by telling us about things like Aaron's alcohol problem and the presence of benzos. He claims to not cover cases where mental health might be an issue. Aaron was obviously dealing with mental health issues so why would be cover this case when it goes against his major profile points...? The only answer I can think of is money.

[@Cheshire_Cat137]

Off topic but I find it odd that the most believable story in your opinion behind the name of the mountain is one where it was settlers just not understanding what locals meant.

[@TheLoreLodge]

Number of times it’s happened is crazy

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

You should look into how common it is. Its everywhere

[@13lilsykos]

Yeah, misunderstandings like that were super common back then

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

Could have been a name that got reinforced with time after that initial mistake

[@WVgrl59]

This past year, I had to call 911 but for a family member in another state. It is not easy or quick. When I called my 911 to explain, they gave me a number in the other city but it took awhile. They had never done it before. Even after I called that number, I had to call another number before finally speaking to the 911 operator. Then I had to explain why I was calling from 9 states away. It seemed like an eternity, but they were kind enough to call me from their apartment when they got there. ❤

[@MsMtheory]

Missing enigma is soooo gooood! Love when my favs have crossovers lol, great work, keep it up! (and also as always i appreciate as an indigenous person how you address indigenous ppl and issues )

[@jamesknapp64]

He really is great

[@DaftDawg]

One thing that can happen during alcohol withdrawal is extreme and very real feeling and lucid hallucinations. I have been unfortunate enough to be in that situation and have recovered. However, I had an episode of alcohol withdrawal while on benzodiazepines which caused EXTREME hallucinations. I did some extremely strange things and put myself in a very serious and strange position which I fully believed at the time. I fully believed I was going to die and ran 3 miles barefoot in the middle of the night. I only say this because I feel comfortable now and have recovered

[@elizabethmarshall3558]

I live in Montana and we have one of the highest rates of alcoholism in the country .😢

[@benjaminchurchill9651]

In my work (hiking trail maintenance) most people put their phones in airplane mode for the week that we are in the woods camping as it drastically improves battery life.

[@jharv01]

Another great video! I'm kind of obsessed with the missing 411 files, well done well researched!

[@kalin666]

Getting pissed off at someone for needlessly getting themselves killed is a perfectly normal grief response.

[@siegebot82]

The pissed off guy didn't know him, apparently they had met the day of the trip

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

​@@siegebot82wouldn't that just.. increase that response? Annoyance being primary probably until later.

[@siegebot82]

@@ChaoticNeutralMatt why would you care if some random guy got himself killed?

[@montananerd8244]

Lol not sure I'd say the Crazy Mountains are EASY to navigate. The thing that bugs me about this case is the politics of access up in the Crazies, which doesn't really appear to be relevant here, but with all the fights over public access these past 20-30 years, it feels like it might be mixed up in this somehow. I agree the friends behaved very suspiciously, but it is easy to get hurt and die. And older gentleman in Billings just fell from the cliffs that surround town while on a bike ride, in a high use public access area, and was found deceased a day or two later. That happened with 110k people around, right in the city itself. I changed how I hike & camp at 50, just out of common sense, and no longer adventure so independently and spontaneously because no one wants to leave a horrible mystery for their family.

[@Sodacacik]

a woman was found under a christmas tree after being dead several days in the CITY CENTRE TOWN QUARE CHRISTMAS TREE LITERALLY PEOPLE RIGHT THERE

[@jeffreymorris1752]

The land owners commonly graze their cattle on public land but then raise hell when the public set foot on their private property. It's like that all over the Northern Rockies states. The landowners lease land to hunting clubs and dude ranches adjoining public lands with the understanding that their clients have access to lands both public and private. In other words, the borders between public and private lands can be and are crossed by the hunting clubs and dudes but cannot be crossed in the other direction. There's a lot more money to be made (10x or 20x) by leasing land to hunting clubs and dude ranches than can be made by just running cattle. There's several instances in my area of the hunting club admins literally kidnapping non-club hunters who wandered on to club land. In one instance, the kidnapped hunters were hauled up into the hills and booted out, left to find their way back. That was settled out of court. It was never prosecuted. The problem is money and profit. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

[@ARPelayre]

I found this story fascinating while watching the missing 411, and I really appreciate this follow up with further information!

[@TheKoyotetracker]

My only criticism, a map showing the points of finds, camps, etc, would be great addition. I agree with what was said about the pistol only having three shots left for signaling and that three has possibly been fired. I know several people who only walk around with five rounds loaded so the hammer sits on an empty chamber. JS

[@Bowsarge]

38:40 it is common knowledge to most hunters that if you are lost, you fire 3 shots to signal for anyone around, and if someone hears, they are supposed to shoot 2 shots in response. And for the most part, people only have the gun loaded and don't carry extra rounds. He probably shot 3 times, got no response, and kept the other 3 for in case he thought he was near people or if he needed to fend off an animal. This isn't really an odd situation. The part that is weird is that he did not keep the gun with him after he got there.

[@HavianEla]

Aaron deserved better friends. He wasn’t perfect and made crappy decisions, but so do we all. At least he was attempting to get better, it’s hard, but he was trying. His friends suck at the whole “friendship” thing.

[@Trappist_Miller]

The three shots left in the revolver tracks. It’s a near universal hunting safety protocol to fire three shots to signal for help if you’re lost or in danger, and assuming the revolver was only six shots, he’d only have the three live rounds left in the cylinder. 38:40

[@p.k.5455]

Or did Aaron know they were poaching and was not happy about it. Maybe he tried to tell them they were doing something illegal and they, or at least Greg, was NOT happy and "dealt" with him.

[@rogerramjet6429]

I've been listening and researching the cases that Paulides has done, for a few years now. There are a number of cases where a bunch of details are just wrong or just missing. He does deal with a lot of cases by himself though, so I'd expect some details to be questionable. I'm sure some cases get confused with others at times.

[@barbarachambers7974]

I am surprised these guys didn't ask for lawyers.

[@beverlyhollenbeck3406]

I'm female and come from a family (and culture) of small game hunters & varment killers who were also high functioning alcoholics. I'm really troubled about why his "friends" would enter the backcountry with someone they clearly knew to be unstable, however temporarily. Personally, I'd NEVER hunt with my father or brother when they were drinking. Never be near them when they handled guns. Damned sure would never have brought along alcohol for them. Maybe I'm judging them too harshly, but I'm torn between feeling they cared more about a fine than their friend's life, and wondering whether the whole situation of letting him come along, bringing alcohol, berating an unstable man, then lying to police about it all, is just a low-rent, dick move.

[@calebreynolds9183]

That’s because you’re trained to be responsible. Most people aren’t.

[@rylquef9757]

Well, the revolver was said to have 3 live rounds, which mean, assuming there are no spent casings because that probably would have been noted, that he had intentionally only loaded three, whether only having three initially or being down to his last three, which would also imply there are more spent casings in a group elsewhere

[@ElectricRose9001]

I think the one friend who doesn't seem to suck as bad (I think it's Joe?) may have the best theory. I feel like it's totally plausible that Aaron was going to use this trip as a detox, didn't plan to lose his stuff though, had one miserable sleepless night that would have left him disoriented, he had been drinking so that would be affecting him, they know he didn't make it to the cache so he never ended up ever getting anything to warm up or properly sleep, so now he's an alcoholic lost in the woods with no alcohol, not enough stuff to even keep warm let alone comfortable, and all he has in the beginnings of his withdrawals are sensitives...Just a couple hours lost sleep affects your judgement, and those meds would cause him to be a special level of tired where you can still talk to yourself lucidly in your head, but are completely unable to even lift your arms, and you're falling asleep where you stand, because being brand new on any medication that can make you sleepy is like that. He probably wondered the woods physically being sick from lack of alcohol, and being perpetually drowsy and disoriented without any way to care for even his most basic needs, and it all caught up with him.. It's really sad, I've been where he was, also dude needed better friends..

[@Lacamina5]

I’ve watched quite a few of DP’s videos and the doco and the fact that he left all this out is insane.

[@crowsrose8789]

Another great video guys! Keep up the amazing work!

[@-Zer0Dark-]

Paulides leaves out these details because a raving drunk getting lost in the woods isn't spooky, and doesn't sell multiple books/three movies.

[@wrongturnVfor]

To me it seems like he did have suicidal ideation. The reason he was jumpy was perhaps because he had not been taking his meds, not just because he didnt wanna get clean but maybe because he wanted to take them all together to end his life. He kept a gun too in case the pills failed. But I also think that he hadnt completely made up his mind about it. Like he was weighing whether to do it or not. When they went up that trail, he might have had half a mind to do it. Trying to make the decision, the reason behind his state of mind and the stress of everything might have been why he was drinking. And maybe for whatever reason a fight broke out between them and something was said and he decided to stay away from his friends. it is possible that his friends knew about his mental state but not everyone understands how to handle it so they may have tried to "dude" or "bro" him out of it making it a bit worse. So he started avoiding them and went off on his own. They were def poaching and knew that the elk was either killed or died on a private piece of land. So they busied themselves with that and thought, Aron would come back when he cools off. But then when he didnt, they might have realised he was props seriious about taking his life and that is why they called his wife asking "is he alive". I dont think they thought at this time that he was dead. And maybe he wasnt. But when reearchers didnt find anything, they told themselves that if he was alive and just cooling off, he would have gone to his stash. If that stash is still there, it means he isnt alive. And they needed to get their stories straight and figure out what to do next. So they went there themselves. At this point Aron might have been wandering around trying to decide what to do. When the friends were there and they found the stash. Now, it is possible that Aron might have stored alcohol in his stash as well. And when they got there, they might have found the entire stash without the alcohol and they panicked and they probs thought that they would wait here in case he turns up. Which I believe he might actually have turned up there at night to get his stash but seeing his friends there he turned back not wanting to interact with them. That is what those footprints could have been. why he thought they were smaller is probably because they might have been, if there is powdery snow and someone makes footprints and then there are high winds a thin layer can be blown over the tracks and make them appear smaller. At some point in all of this, he might have tried to get someone's attention by firing 3 shots as SOS. But it might have been that no one paid attention. And he might have saved the last 3 to get someone's attention later or in case he decided to end it and the pills didnt work. This could have been before or after his friends went looking for the stash and stayed the night there. If he was unsure on whether to end it or not, this erratic behavior would make sense. Anyway, after all this, at some point Aron did decide to end his life it seems and decided to find a good spot to do it. I think he chose a nice spot under the tree, opened up his thermos which might have had alcohol in it and maybe swallowed a bunch of those pills and laid down to die. He might have done it near a ranch so his body would be found sooner or something, IDK. This would explain quite a lot of the freinds' behavior together with the poaching thing.

[@philthyphil9168]

Regardless if he was alcoholic on pills whatever if me and two other friends are out and one of them are drunk or high there is no way two of us couldn't make him sit his ass down and relax Regardless if he was irritated or pissing us off. Sounds partly true, the story they told. Most likely got in a fight a real fight and something happened.

[@kweefypete]

Outstanding content as always 💜 also good day- your hair is on point, duder!

[@918Mitchell]

The Blackfeet were warlike and brutal by native tribes standards. They controlled the largest area by force.

[@_notact_6100]

Sounds like they got in a fight someone got killed and they’re trying to cover it up

[@benjaminmatheny6683]

Frankly I don't think that Foul play should be ruled out. Not enough evidence to say definitively but not ruled out. So much of the testimony by his friends is both the sole source as well as being dodgy. His friends definitely did not like him at the start of the trip, it kinda reminds me of the teenager case where the two girls decided they didn't like their third friend anymore, but she wouldn't stop trying to be their friend so they stabbed her. That neither friend stepped up to help with Aaron's salvaged gear from the first incident is indicative that they were shit friends. Bodies can be moved, and the two of them are already confirmed poachers.

[@HarryPoggers44]

This is an excellent breakdown of this case, I’m hooked on this channel. Also being a recovered alcoholic for 5 years now that also used to abuse benzodiazepines I can say with certainty, if he was drinking anything more than a single shot worth and taking that medication, he would have not been in the right mental or physical state to rough it in the backcountry like this and hunt ALONE. It is very very easy to get confused, forget what you are doing, become disoriented/clumsy, and the biggest one is these two things together make blacking out very possible. He could have been roaming the woods in a blackout state at some point not even aware that he was awake and hiking. This could easily lead to him perishing in a very bizarre or seemingly illogical manor. It’s a sad tragedy what happened and the fact his crappy friends didn’t do the right thing and drop everything to find their friend. Fun factoid, bezos and alcohol are also the only two drugs you can die from withdrawals so it’s entirely possible that he stopped cold turkey, proceeded to slowly go through more and more withdrawals, and then died due to a lack of alcohol so suddenly.

[@margaretzoheir7905]

I think Aaron was murdered, may he R.I.P. His friends behaved in a very peculiar way. In addition, someone wanted his belongings to be found near that ranch.

[@Trivial_Whim]

*Hiked* south of the ranch? Or in a running gun battle with a supernatural predator that finally caught him and tore him to pieces? Come on, man just say it.

[@imurgodsgod]

Sssssshhhhhhh

[@chezburgerz8923]

Totally unrelated but I've been struggling with some real life and work issues and your videos have been helping me a ton man, reminds me of a nostalgic time me and my friend use to research this stuff together at late night and I've just been using your videos to relax and take me back! Also we got the same Alma mater baby We are! Keep up the good work dude

[@emmythorn]

Im from washington state, i grew up in the woods. Ive gotten lost in a copse of woods before that i knew literally like the back of my hand. No matter how well you think you know the woods, thst can change in an instant. If youre not in an ideal mental state i cant imagine how much worse that could be

[@meepmoopiethe3rd]

I've heard this story a couple of times now. As with a lot of these "holy heck where could they have gone?" cases, I'm fairly positive his buddies killed him. There's so much open land in the northwest. Near ifinite space to hide a body. The hardest part would be keeping your mouth shut about it.

[@calebreynolds9183]

Dude his body was found under a tree, he died from exposure

[@thefisherking78]

18:00 as a comms engineer, it's important to understand that there's a difference between rated range and maximum usable range in any given scenario. Handheld radios like that are vulnerable to all sorts of interference and attenuation that can affect the quality of the signal, reducing the effective range far below what would be the maximum under ideal circumstances. Manufacturers, If they care about managing consumer expectations, adjust their ratings accordingly by reducing the rated range far below the maximum possible range so that people aren't disappointed when they go out in heavy fog or rugged terrain and it doesn't perform at that maximum range. So if this system is rated for 2 mi, that means it will usually give clear and reliable communications inside 2 miles. And although they won't guarantee performance outside that, it's entirely likely that under good conditions it will work (albeit poorly, as reported here) at several times that distance.

[@SpaceCaptnFace]

Sounds like Huntingtons Chorea. I mean, i know he was a known alcoholic, but that dissoriented state and mental lapses seem odd for withdrawals or meds. half of my army buddies are recovering or active alcoholics and ive seen the gamut of what theyve gone through as well as my own withdrawls from opiates. poor dude was not with the best group of friends

[@maemccleary3283]

Does anyone think its possible the "friends" were kind of...hoping something would happen to him? 1.Bringing alcohol on a trip with a friend who is an alcoholic- then getting mad at him for drinking 2. Not looking for him 3. Not calling s&r 4. Asking the wife if hes still alive?!-WTF? It really seams like they were hoping the "problem" would take care of itself.

[@TheRoadhammer379]

The location of the Elk is NOT an indication of poaching. Game animals can run for miles after being shot if they are pressured. It is 100% likely that the Elk was shot on public land and ended up dying on private property. If that was the case, we can't expect those guys to just leave an animal to rot just because of an imaginary border.

[@p.k.5455]

It's ok to correct an omission of facts, especially when discussing stories of this magnitude. The friends might have just assumed he was drinking, and personally I think there were some missing details from the friends. With Friends like that who needs enemies...and that might have been the case. Especially since the ONLY details given are from them...curious!

[@natedogg7376]

The Missing Enigma does a fantastic job of getting to the truth with no hyperbole.

[@LaVidayElTristeFinal]

The more people look into Paulides' work, the more inconsistencies and important omissions they find. I used to be a big DP fan but I came to the conclusion that he manipulates the narrative to make cases appear more mysterious than they really are. Zealous Beast has systematically analyzed hundreds of cases from his books and found that 70-80% of cases are misreported. In many instances, many people listed as missing by DP were actually found, which he didn't report. DP's accuracy is at best 20-30%. At this point, I lost all my faith in the guy, who in any case seems more focused on his political rants than in missing people nowadays. P.S.: Let's not forget that David Paulides was fired from his law enforcement job for fraud. His integrity should not be taken for granted.

[@trevorsherrie]

In regards to the .44 was it have loaded or half fired, those are very different

[@imurgodsgod]

Right

[@TheScrapboo]

I'm so glad Aiden is talking about locations I recognize because I've grown up in the big MT. 😊

[@calebreynolds9183]

Watch out for the roboscorpions

[@fireyiris9136]

7:31 Simply means the population in one area is too high, so they are being forced to migrate to another. Similar to much of the elk population here in PA, or the black bears migrating from New Jersey into the commonwealth.

[@ShueMatta]

I finally caught a live from the beginning!!! Yay!!! 🎉

[@seattlesauce]

I really think him knowing the area worked against him here. This has happened to me before..... you know a walking path so well or a route you're driving so well, you're so confident you almost don't have to pay attention. Maybe you have a lot on your mind and get lost in thought. Next thing you know you've walked a lot further or driven further than you thought and maybe don't even remember going the last few miles. Guessing that happened to Aaron here. The bullets were used to signal people. He didn't know where he was after missing his turn and now in unfamiliar land. He couldn't see the Ranch due to the bad weather/snowstorm and poor visibility. A sad case of bad circumstances, lost in nature and exposure. Very sad case.

[@chuckn4851]

I speak in the context of both professional and personal experience, to preface what I'm about to say. Aaron had either relapsed (if not on alcohol, then with misuse of his benzo script) *or* was suffering from either alcohol or benzo-induced delirium or catatonia -- especially if Aaron had any sort of mood disorder as a root cause of his substance use. I do NOT say this with judgment, just the simple facts that Aaron's abrupt changes in behavior on the trip, apparent mood swings, and especially his on-and-off confusion about his location/state of being all match up to this. Benzodiazapems are always a mixed bag, even for those who truly need them on a temporary basis like Aaron did. It's hard to comment on the competency of the prescribing doctor in their judgment to write Aaron a script without knowing what Aaron may or may not have told them, so I won't. Aaron's friends were likely simply ignorant about how this all worked, much less the nature of the disease of substance use disorder AND even less about the symptoms that withdrawals or further use could cause, especially in a hostile environment albeit one that Aaron knew well. I say hostile environment because withdrawing from heavy and long-term substance use in the backcountry with minimal gear, much less anything set up to help alleviate the withdrawal/detox symptoms, and without knowledgeable people there to help him in this is, in fact, a hostile environment. I'm not going to sit here and claim that Aaron's friends are responsible for his death, but they indeed went into this with zero prior knowledge, which, as friends who were setting out with the intent to help him, would have greatly benefitted from simply doing an hour's worth of research or at least talking with someone to figure out that this was likely not in their wheelhouse of expertise. It sucks because Aaron's dead, and his friends don't seem like the types to consider therapy an option to process everything that happened. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but the fact that they tried to go to certain lengths of either ignoring what happened or even potentially covering up what they might perceive to be their fault in his death does not give a great prognosis for them coming to terms with the situation.

[@mr.halloween87]

Worked on the building of a movie set in the Crazy Mountains of Montana in the 90s. Did a lot of fishing in the area and was scared of Grizzly Bears for nothing! Thanks for clearing that up for me!😂

[@basser]

Not to be a "well, actually" type, but you state quite emphatically that benzos can't cause agitation/confusion - paradoxical reactions to benzos are relatively common and tend to involve agitation, dissociation, and erratic behavior. A person with limited medical experience might not realize this is an abnormal reaction and might assume benzos are meant to make you act crazy. Since you cited personal experience and I don't feel like finding a link, I'll cite my personal experience with paradoxic benzo reactions: every time I've taken benzos (usually at the ER or prior to surgery) they've turned me into a belligerent lunatic who tries to fight medical staff while screaming obscenities. Apparently the current theory is that variations in human GABA receptors can interact in unexpected ways with the active molecule and result in a drug profile more similar to a dissociative stimulant.

[@chrisjensen4030]

For future reference. Game bages don't hide scent they just are an added layer of protection and allow the meat to cool.

[@Ghostly835]

Honestly after hearing the extra details it sounds like someone who went on nice walk to think and decided to end it all. it's a sad tale but I think its a fair conclusion and makes the choices he made more reasonable

[@p.k.5455]

Chased by the worst kind of creature...BAD HUMAN friends 😮

[@RoseMary-us5gh]

I don’t believe his friends

[@Ziporis]

This could be completely wrong and i don't much much at all about this case, but is it not possible that his wife was involved somehow? they called her asking if Aaron was alive, and found smaller footprints in the area, and it could account for the missing bullets, just a thought, again not sure if any of that lines up with the facts, great video.

[@Ziporis]

@@stealthwarrior5768 Yeah im really not sure why she hasnt been brought up, its the most obvious outcome in my opinion, especially those smaller tracks, i feel like theres too much evidence on her for her to not be involved or at least to be investigated.

[@morgandavis3761]

If it were 3 remaining rounds, and 3 spent rounds, I would argue it was a matter of signaling SOS. 3 consecutive shots in rapid succession is a way to signal SOS. If he didn't anticipate needing the revolver, he likely only brought 1 load of ammo. 3 remaining rounds makes me think he was hoping for a good opportunity for a final SOS. But if he was able to build a fire, he should've been able to add pine bows to make a smoky signal fire for help.

[@Dasim6786]

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some sort of argument or falling out between him and his friends before Aaron left that the friends didn’t tell police. It’s certainly a bad look to be the last person to see them alive and have an argument, especially in the mountains with weapons and alcohol involved. It could be he said he was going off on his own and they were still mad and figured that’s for the best. Would that be the most empathetic and caring thing to do for a struggling friend? No but also I think it’s something a lot of people would do if you really think he’s gonna be fine and know the area. Remember this whole trip occurred before they had hindsight

[@CaptoftheHaggister]

They made him carry all of his stuff and pack animal all their's? What assholes. The smartest way to do it is every takes a 3rd of their stuff to carry. The 2 parts freed up from the others make the room for his stuff. That's way its even and everyone can move faster instead of one guy trying to keep up and struggling .

[@echothomas2099]

Thank you. This case has had me thinking since I first heard it. All these omitted factors really put it into perspective

[@Return_of_the_Dude]

So what conclusions did you come to?

[@wraith313]

In my mind they probably left without him because they were pissed. They went elk hunting, Aaron didn't bring any stuff to sleep etc, didn't care when they got an elk, bailed on them to go off by himself, and had a history of alcoholism and irresponsibility. They probably thought it was just Aaron being Aaron and werent expecting to babysit him.

[@DP_-hn2ci]

yah i agree so then they just didnt want to deal with him therefore again as u mentioned they went to hunt then left, and they probably saw him on the GPS, thought he was lying and assumed he left to hunt

[@jksngtrs90]

He did bring stuff to camp with but the mule bucked and lost all his gear. He didn't bail on them to go off alone. He went to go get his back up gear. Did you even watch the video? Lol

[@ajamalaysiavar5540]

They ain't lie that much over poaching. One or both of them taught with Aaron, he left, or was left, prob bleeding and injured. That's why old boy kept blaming Aaron and asked his wife if he was alive.

[@MizRouge]

7:35 but you do know what this means! Someone commented on your previous video as to why this was said. They said it could be a lone bear wandering in rather than a reproducing population.

[@n2da9]

NEW LORE LODGE BABE WAKE UP