is Joker 2 any good? (NO SPOILERS)

[@jimmykane9426]

Todd Phillips panicking when he found out there's no Taxi Driver part II so he has to write the sequel on his own..

[@CurtisJeffries-cd5vu]

🤣 yea, he didn't have anything to ripoff of. so he ripped off The Hangover 2. 😂

[@RobbieManic]

No Fight Club: The Movie 2 Electric Boogaloo or King of Comedy 2 either.

[@juanpaez9981]

Lol I figured he would ripoff one flew over the cuckoos nest lol

[@RobbieManic]

@@juanpaez9981 his next "attempt" at a "serious film on mental health" will probably just be that. Wants to paint the Joker, and those with mental health struggles, in a sympathetic light and express the importance of understanding each other's internal struggle; has the protagonist kill a bunch of people and start a riot. If he wanted to do a film about the sympathy of mental health, don't centre it on a mass-murdering homicidal maniac. Just makes out anyone with a health disorder is going to kill you for looking at them the wrong way.

[@connorblake7487]

100%

[@maniachaelgaming]

Todd Phillips saying no it’s not a musical and then defining the essence of a musical is actually pretty funny

[@RobbieManic]

Like how the screenwriter for the first one said "it's not written to be political". Yeah, it might not be a political thriller by genre, but every artistic product is political on some level whether you like it or not. Plus, the film's major plot centres on class conflict and social-economics-turned-warfare. Guy's an idiot.

[@Randomaccount9470]

That's coz it wasn't art just an imitation of it ​@@RobbieManic

[@RobbieManic]

@@Randomaccount9470 well, I can't disagree with you 😂 it wasn't art, just a pale imitation of what came before. But all art is political on some level. Every film, every song, every product, book, poem - everything created has some level of politics to it.

[@neonsmoviereviews7969]

I don’t think it was a musical. In a musical, the songs are supposed to inform the audience and progress the story. This seemed like commercial breaks to cut to their featured musical guest and then resumed the movie, they didn’t really inform us of anything or add anything

[@jovianmelendez]

​@@neonsmoviereviews7969 what you just described is still a musical, just a bad one. Lol. If there are 10+ songs but the musical scenes dont even actually connect to or further the plot and feel like a commercial break then thats just a badly executed musical movie.

[@AdamSoucyDrums]

Clayface voice: “LADY gaGA!”

[@louthegiantcookie]

The most subversive, shocking thing they could do with Joker now is to take him back to the Silver Age and make him essentially a harmless prankster. If this movie had been an earnest, comic musical which leaned into the camp, I bet people would have a different view of it.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

God that would've been incredible

[@enumaelish9193]

B-but society

[@lrrroftheplanetomicronpersei8]

Please

[@soltandvinegar]

Praying that the DCU will do this

[@gynoidpoet]

This is why people like Lego Batman's Joker the most.

[@rjmcclure8019]

I’m just realizing now that Conan O’Brien could be a terrific Joker

[@RicardoSiah]

And Jay Leno is Harvey Dent 😂

[@RobbieManic]

​@@RicardoSiahThey'd lose half the budget trying to keep his chin corroded in half down the middle alone.

[@RicardoSiah]

@@RobbieManic 😭🤣

[@Zeik56]

​@@RicardoSiahHarvey Dent is a a tragic and sympathetic character though. Leno could never pull that off.

[@RicardoSiah]

@@Zeik56 well Leno got Two Face

[@royernster6792]

I walked away from the theater generally disappointed by the musical side of this movie as well. I was super excited about it and thought it was a great idea on how to explore the jokers insanity, but they didn’t commit enough. The first time Arthur sings, it feels like he’s insane and that his insanity is bleeding out into those around him and as an audience member I was like oh shit, I can see why these broken people of Gotham are handing behind this guy, he’s just openly loosing his mind and people are gathering behind him as a lunatic. Then we cut back to the moment before Arthur started singing and realize it was all in his head. And it’s like NO THAT RUINS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SCENE.

[@CurtisJeffries-cd5vu]

this movie is dog sht

[@jay-ks1ex]

Literally same exact thing I felt I was like why did you do that???

[@jovianmelendez]

I feel like it being in his head could have worked as a represntation of his inner emotions and insanity but it had to be deeper than just him singing what he feels just for the sake of it. They could have used the songs to show delusions that are reality to him and to make him an unreliable narrator to the audience and make them unsure of whats real and whats in his head. Every time characters started singing it shouldve been him slipping into psychosis and seeing things happen differently. This could be because he doesnt like whats happening around him so he makes his own version of the surrounding events to cope.

[@jovianmelendez]

Also they couldve done some cool stuff with Lee/Harley using this. Make her still be a psychiatrist who falls in love with the Joker. During their sessions they start talking normally, she seems to be falling for him and whenever shes showing feelings for him would be when they would sing. At one point she stops visiting him/treating him for a while and then ends up doing the traditional Harley Quinn thing and becomes an insane criminal and lands in the asylum with Arthur and they have more musical scenes where Arthur and Lee take over the asylum. In the end it turns out that the reason she stopped treating him was because he was making advancements towards her that werent reciprocated because all the scenes of her falling for him were just him imagining it (hence the fact that every time she has romantic moments with him theyd break out in song, cuz the musical scenes would be a represtnation of him disassociating from reality) and she was never really in the asylum either he just imagined her there because he missed her and was going more and more insane due to the feeling of no longer have control over his life and being lonelier without her as he developed feelings for her over their sessions so he imagined himself taking over the asylum with her and having her become his Harley Quinn and maybe even escaping the asylum with her. Obviously they would have to do a bit more with the characters particularly the ending so its more than just "he imagined it all" but thats kinda what I imagined the movie to be but it seems that it wasnt that at all from everything that Ive read. Not sure if I even wanna watch it now lol.

[@Scarnehu]

Advertisements: it's a Musical Me: oh neat Nando: it's a jukeboke musical Me: **closes briefcase** "thank you for your time"

[@miguelcapetillo7160]

Yeah...

[@matthiasschulz3569]

You know which other movie was a jukebox musical? Singing in the frikking rain!

[@nicolasmaldonado1428]

What's wrong with Jukebox musicals?

[@nicolasmaldonado1428]

I don't know why I asked, I hate all musicals equally.

[@matthiasschulz3569]

@@nicolasmaldonado1428 "I hate every musical I see! From Oklahom-A to Oklahom-Zee!"

[@lancefullmer9384]

Nando's next pitch the Dazzler musical biopic

[@hollyswoods]

Actually though

[@nanes9914]

That’d be cool as a special presentation

[@prathapkutty7407]

Played by Taylor Swift.

[@DaygoCarti]

@@prathapkutty7407hell nah

[@prathapkutty7407]

@@DaygoCarti it would make so much money.

[@pianist150]

I didn't like Joker so I didn't care about the sequel but then I heard it was gonna be a musical and I was like sure, fuck it. That's an interesting choice at least and I could go for a big hollywood musical starring Lady Gaga. But then the way Todd Phillips has talked about the musical aspect makes me feel like they're kinda going halfway with it and if you're not gonna go all in, why do it at all?

[@piratewhoisquiet]

The first and so far only fair and reasonable critical film analysis I've seen. Will keep an eye out for your content in future my guy!

[@jeremyobriant7266]

Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. Best musical superhero movie--technically, miniseries but you can watch it in its entirety in one video--of all time.

[@piratewhoisquiet]

top quality callout, seconded

[@olabassey3142]

Nando ur the like the best critic to me because 1. u know ur stuff about comics and source material 2. always knows how to be critical without sounding like a sick 3. never makes bad faith arguments

[@Kage-jk4pj]

Cynic*

[@alexanderwinn9407]

I’ll add a #4 - He WANTS to like stuff. He’s not blind to flaws, but he comes from a default place of being a fan. Even with objectively bad movies, he’ll find the good parts.

[@artist0154]

yep he and 3C Films are the only ones I can trust, and boi they do not like this movie

[@OG_Agrivar]

@@artist0154 I recently stumbled across the pReviewed channel and they seem to fit the same mold - earnest and honest, and they clearly *want* to like what they're watching.

[@Boomie_365]

Also, even though he only reviews comic book movies, he actually has decent and in depth love and understanding of movies a whole

[@jthememeking]

I gotta say, im immensely disappointed this isn't a full blown musical. That was the largest selling point for me

[@garyprime6983]

From the trailer it would seem that this is a sequel based on Joker and Harley Quinn going around causing chaos. But this movie really focuses on Joker being brought down with Lee sprinkled throughout. Todd Phillips made it a jukebox musical and cast Gaga but then they really don’t commit to what HE CREATED THE STORY TO BE. Lee really was written like a supporting character from the 90s and Author just seemed like the same from the first movie. If the first movie was Joker getting started, mistakenly this movie was written to be Joker stopping.

[@Vynzent]

I've some videos saying a lot of Gaga footage was cut. Maybe they did have a more interesting flick at some point.

[@MrMgkman13]

I can’t say it’s not ANY good. I like the different approach, the visuals, the performances of Phoenix and Gaga. But the story was just terrible. It felt like a movie made by people who swore they only wanted to make one movie the first time. It also felt like a movie where the director once heard that Joker has a girlfriend named Harley Quinn and that was it.

[@mjolninja9358]

The best thing with Joker 1 was its cinematography and the atmosphere, acting was a standout as well. The rest were ehh

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

And the cinematography and atmosphere were largely an homage to The King of Comedy.

[@AnessaSellsHouses]

It's a rip-off. The only reason Joker is even set in the late 70's/early 80's is exactly because they're trying to mimic Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, which *were* made during that era. Joker made it performative, to boast production value.

[@rubenquiros4859]

Don’t forget the score. Hildur did a fantastic job.

[@radrno7]

You're saying like those are small things. If the movie had good cinematography, atmosphere and acting, guess what? The movie was good. I'd add the photography, the color palette, the score, the writing and the story, because it was a great movie (much better than this one, for sure).

[@ProjektTaku]

@@radrno7 he's saying those elements specifically, and that the rest that you mentioned, were kinda ehh, especially the writing and story. A movie can have good elements without being good.

[@peterdelisle7083]

It was interesting, but would have been better if it was a Harley movie. It just didnt seem to have any real focus, like they didnt have a story to tell about Arthur

[@knives5964]

Cause they already told it in Joker 1 lol, that's why it was such a success

[@oneaussieboi1754]

We need a Batman movie with Music Meister as the villain

[@encyclopediaespx1128]

Bring NPH back too, he’s already been Dr. Horrible and the animated version of Music Miester.

[@oneaussieboi1754]

@@encyclopediaespx1128 exactly!

[@dimitrisgel9640]

Hildur Guðnadóttir's music was beautiful on the first one and the bits were Arthur dances alone felt really important for the character, he was the most free and confident at those scenes. My favourite moments of the first movie because in my opinion they showed off the three strongest aspects of the movie, those being Poenix's performance, the cinematography and the music. So going full on musical for the sequel felt like a pretty organic extension of those scenes for me. Kinda disapointing to hear they didn't fully commit to it.

[@motherplayer]

I also particularly like the "Punch out" scene and when he rubs over the "forget to" on the sign "Don't forget to smile!". Felt like they hit the mark as well on him and the better aspects of the film.

[@james.b.mcgill]

I like the first Joker movie. My older sister LOVES the first Joker movie. I feel bad this movie is getting bad reviews 'cuse I know my sister was looking forward to it. I always find the discourse from people that hate the first movie amusing because they always mention that is love by a certain type of white man and my sister is a black woman.

[@motherplayer]

That or, like, the 50th time the "Taxi Driver/King of Comedy" comparison is being made, as if influence just isn't a thing, even the director of those two films has well done it, it's just his references are for films most haven't seen these days and goes right over their heads.

[@norm-bb3bb]

Exactly, I'm sad as well because I also love the first Joker

[@Prod.SEMAPHORE]

The ending felt right out of a Sony marvel movie

[@bangeranginretroman3064]

If you havent seen Joker since it came out, i would do a rewatch. I had a similar opinion from remembering it, i liked it but it felt like it wasnt saying anything despite leading you on to think it is. I watched it again earlier this year, and my takeaway was that if youre looking for anything deep, youre not going to find it. But the film treats itself as a character study of Arthur Fleck, thru and thru, and watching it with that perspective alone, it is really well done

[@wet-read]

Joker hits you over the head constantly. There isn't anything really compelling or suspenseful in it. I was tremendously disappointed.

[@arc7375]

At this point, I’m sick of the over saturation of Joker and Harley across all media. That said, I think we’re _all_ ready for Willem Dafoe as the Joker.

[@petrenicolae3282]

I see Dafoe as Eobard Twane/Reverse Flash.

[@Cdr2002]

I’m sick of the Joker and not Harley personally, but I am sick of certain aspects of Harley being emphasized because I think she’s a really interesting character and her superficial annoying traits being highlighted needs to stop

[@Vynzent]

Unless he somehow changes his voice completely he's just going seem like he's doing Green Goblin freakouts but with a Joker costume.

[@hartthorn]

Yeah, I was not a fan of the first one, and hearing that they weren't even really going for it on the musical for this one reduced what little desire I had for it. It actually would have been interesting to have it be this place of fantasy in Arthur/Joker's mind, and have it create a space for those rug pull moments. Like, he thinks the trial is going great because he imagines everyone is on his side, but the reality is that it's very much NOT. I am also just bewildered at how much they changed Harley in the process of making this film "unique" but also just accidentally created Punchline instead. Joker fangirl with a dark side and some media savvy. As for Phoenix's singing voice, that would actually have been an interesting element to expand the fantastical side of the musical: just bring in another singer to do the voice work while Phoenix lip synchs. To really go bonkers, have MULTIPLE singers for him. And don't go low key. Get a bunch of name singers to do this stuff, make it stand out.

[@wet-read]

You're right to not like the first one. It is garbage. Watching it, I felt profound disappointment, and also, indifference to all of the characters.

[@braydendionisio1519]

Next suicide squad movie should have one of the new members be Taron egerton with a muzzle and later into the movie he turns out to be the Music meister

[@NateCorran]

Okay, but this idea fucks hard.

[@bennett4789]

GENIUS!

[@Cdr2002]

Cook

[@VexxtheVoid]

You forgot about d Dr. Horribles Sing-Along blog

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

that was awesome

[@jeremyobriant7266]

I just made a post about it before I saw this. 😂

[@nobo1982]

I think the first joker has a pretty clear thesis as a film. When a civilization allows obscene disparity in wealth, refuses to provide a safety net for those whove fallen and encourages isolation from our neighbors and community, forgets what it means to be humane then that civilization will cease to be human and will birth inevitable uncontrollable and unpredictable violence. It was holding up a mirror to the flaws of american society and saying “are you really surprised we are plagued by indiscriminate violence?”

[@RickReasonnz]

Honestly haven't heard of a film so obviously destined for a "wait for streaming" recently than this one.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

I’m no journalist, but the advertisements said it’s a musical akeen to Chicago. But from what you & most people who’s reviewed the Joker sequel on KZbin are implying, that means the musical part in the actual film’s just Morlun Rouge like jukebox musical.

[@DumasMoran]

But if Joker 1 was made 20 years ago, it would've been that much closer to "Taxi Driver", and had a worse reception. As it is now, it's basically in reimagination territory for Scorcese's film, which is common for movies today

[@RobbieManic]

You can reimagine a film but you can't just rip it off in plot elements, iconography (the toting gun to head gesture) and use one of the principle actors of the original film and call it a reimagining. Plus he ripped off King of Comedy for this premise of the comedy show portions. They completely ripped off Fight Club/American Psycho in that god awful "twist" with Zeze's character. (Edited)

[@ProjektTaku]

@@RobbieManic are you saying in that twist with Zeze he used an element that's been used in multiple movies before? Some might say a...trope?

[@RobbieManic]

@@ProjektTaku Yes. And not a creative one in this day and age at that. If you can see it coming a mile away, it's not a "twist". And if it isn't a twist, but intended as a "trope" then why bother with it? It adds nothing to his character that we don't already have. It's lazy writing.

[@ProjektTaku]

@@RobbieManic no, I'm just saying you can't say its specifically ripping off stuff when mentioning a trope.

[@RobbieManic]

@@ProjektTaku You can, because all tropes start somewhere. Tropes that mimic the material they copy from directly - using specific references, homages and indications towards that material, however overt or not - is ripping off that material. Having DeNiro (the actor from Taxi Driver and King of Comedy) doesn't soften the blow. The finger gun he does is taken from Taxi Driver. Having him plan to assassinate a political figure and then off himself, only to then double down and not do it? Taxi Driver. Having a coworker give the protagonist a gun? Taxi Driver. Having a love interest turn him down/not reciprocate his affections? Taxi Driver. Having him heralded as a hero at the end for mass shooting gun violence? Taxi Driver.

[@brettscott1797]

Love your opinions on film. Thanks for always producing videos!

[@HoboBrute]

I need the next movie pitch to be Nando telling us what super hero movie needs to be a musical

[@Arthur-bz9ps]

I don’t think it’s going to be as big as the first because of the reviews I’m seeing all over the internet. If no one did early reviews then it would have been different. Regardless I’m going to see it and decide for myself if it’s good or not.

[@jackstutz2860]

a friend of mine told me his theory for this movie is that Todd was like "No, I don't wanna make a second one" and WB was like "Here's a blank check, make a second one" so Todd thought: fuck it, let's make a second one that's just so bad while i run away with this blank check. And honestly, i'd believe it

[@deadmemes719]

The Freddy got f*****ed school of making movies… I could see it

[@maialdhubaib3365]

Am i the only one who loved this movie??!!!

[@je5406]

You're in the 10%. congrats.

[@thomasantonellos6014]

Thank you for wording my thoughts on joker 1 better than I can

[@joshh.2159]

It's ok...I didn't hate it like everyone seems to but it is not necessary that's true and the musical numbers would be better left out but still great cinematography and acting from JP and Gaga

[@alexandelsosa7718]

3:21 its Lady guhgAh

[@SilverScale.]

I had the exact same criticism for Joker 1, that it didn't take an actual point of view on the Joker. So, course-correcting out of this oversight is the only bit of info about this movie that makes me wanna see it eventually, at all. Otherwise it seems like more of the same and I didn't enjoy it to begin with.

[@ILoveJamesFelt]

I thought this film wasted a lot of time and personally felt directionless. I really enjoyed Joker 1. Different stroked for different folks, I guess.

[@gavo7911]

This just makes me hope and pray for a musical Batman movie where the main bad guy is Music Meister. Please, James Gunn, this is the one thing I want.

[@sathrielsatanson666]

Hey, only from Joker we could learn that we live in a society. Pretty powerful and profound truth.

[@TapuArt]

did this guy just say he doesn't know how to pronounce lady gaga

[@sorahweiss5821]

I love musicals... in fact, I've written a few; but I feel this. film used music beautifully as expressing Joker's emotions and what was in his head. I loved your review. Very smart. However, I really loved this film and thought it was a. piece of art.

[@Lamq555]

It LOOKED amazing. Gaga was heavily sidelined. Phoenix was MESMERIZING but the story left a lot to be desired. I was actually not mad at the ending. It’s how I expected the first one to end 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Billionth_Kevin]

As someone who hates musicals, I would definitely say Joker 2 is kind of a musical and loved it. I also really enjoyed both Gaga and Phoenix's bad singing. I think that's what I don't like about musicals, I don't like good singing apparently. Good singing is just so mechanical and emotionless and non-personal to me.

[@NestorMunoz-h4m]

In my opinion, the original Joker movie does not try to give a message, but rather works wonders as a dive into the mind of a serial killer. Think of it as Lolita, a book that in the author's words was not attempting to lecture the audience as much as it tried to portray a disgusting mind in a beautiful way.

[@piratewhoisquiet]

I'm really appreciating someone willing to put forward actual film criticism instead of just jumping on the hate bandwagon, but I can't disagree more with your opinion about Joaquin Phoenix's singing: to me it's an extension of what you had just been talking about, that J. P. can play a character playing other characters, well idk if he can sing himself but he can certainly play the role of someone singing! I actually rate Phoenix's vocal performance in this film significantly higher than Lady Gaga's, and no disrespect it's not like she doesn't belt, but it's like getting into a dance-off against Donald Glover - you're just boned. When Phoenix sang in the film it read consistently as Arthur/Joker singing, and not one iota of actor on stage performing the musical. That's difficult. Like, I can easily do either an Irish accent or an English accent, but I would have to dedicate myself to extensive and difficult training to ever be able to do an Irish accented impression of an English accent, or vice versa. Basically the same difficulty except times ten because he does it while absolutely belting the vocal melody at the same time!

[@je5406]

At this point positive reviews of the movie are rare. Thats why im surprised more youtubers arent jumping on the oppurtunity to fill the void.

[@Cdr2002]

5:28 I COMPLETELY agree that this take on Harley looks really regressive from the trailers compared to the place the character is at. I haven’t seen this movie but hearing it worked out ok is encouraging a bit

[@Randomaccount9470]

Maybe the real jokers where the movie makers we met along the way

[@moondog548]

Just that fact that LG-G was enthusiastically involved in this project made it infinitely more intriguing than the first one. Your analysis here was so interesting that I'm sure the movie can't live up. 😅

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

"Djoker foliadoo" hehe, not dissing its fun Not too hyped about this tho enjoyed the first one dont care about it too much, interesting tho Also still appreciate the acknowledgement of pop psychology terms

[@OverlordZenith]

Very unfortunate to hear they're pushing joker as having a split personaliry when the whole point of Joker 1 was him slowly becoming the joker. Undoing that development by just going "actually its a whole different personality" undercuts the arc he went on in the first place.

[@pudin98]

I like these types of reviews where the person is not screaming

[@cybergothika6906]

I never forgot how The Batman was pretty much a perfect movie for me and so was Joker. I truly believed both worlds would collide, since one can't exist without the other and both movies are VERY gritty and immersive. But I don't think DC and Hollywood truly understands it.

[@benzur3503]

I like to think of joker 2 as a brendan gleeson movie with the camera focusing on the extras

[@quintessences]

7:15 jukebox musicals are always tough to get right and the marketing of “it’s not a musical while describing a musical” made no sense. It’s clear the musical idea was random

[@burgergud2804]

Nonetheless the two joker films feel refreshing in this comic book era of films

[@sjhwbs]

First one yes but second was an abyssmal failure in every way. Nothing refreshing about another dogshit comic book movie.

[@DSIrocker]

The biggest takeaway from this video is “does he really not know how to pronounce Lady Gaga?”

[@RicardoSiah]

For Me Joker 2 is Like try hard musical meet Hongkong Crime Movie.. The Ending is like every Hongkong Movie in 90's.. the story is not Bad but 2,5 hour bruh

[@calebmarmon1310]

So it’s not a musical because it fails at being a musical? I can almost see that working.

[@Jander833]

I'm really not a fan of the "Is X any good" approach. Seems like a bit of a cynical way to set a whole package of negative expectations a movie/show has to beat rather than just valuing it for what it is.

[@bennett4789]

the joker franchise specifically is especially hack-y. i think its fair to frame it this way for this movie

[@SeasideDetective2]

I think it's a mismatch thematically that both JOKERs are set in the early 1980s. That era is remembered by many people as a very optimistic time, not a turbulent one. A setting in the late '70s would be more fitting. And Lady Gaga just feels wrong. I've always thought of Harley Quinn as a sort of psychotic Marilyn Monroe. This Harley seems more like a Madonna.

[@Juan_Maldonado320]

This thumbnail is next level

[@Lovicide]

Funny enough, lot of people are claiming incels won't like it as opposed to the first movie that they did like. You know what I think? It's a shit fucking movie that doesn't evolve the character and only rehashes the first film, rendering it a useless sequel that will certainly bomb at the box office

[@nalday2534]

Bold of you to assume people are interested in hearing what you have to say? You cheered and cried while watching deadpool 3 of all things. Nothing you say matters

[@Lovicide]

@@nalday2534 incel typa comment

[@nalday2534]

@@Lovicide deadpool fans are the embodiment of incel community. All you do is live in a basement, consume pop culture and point fingers at the thing you recgonize. Embarrassing

[@nalday2534]

@@Lovicide ironic coming from the lad who lives in basement, consumes pop culture and points at the things he recognizes

[@Lovicide]

@@nalday2534 cope

[@jaxsondav9546]

Joker in the movies has taped into like 2 dimensions of his actual character. He’s way deeper than any movie has made him

[@ki11aqueen5]

Right away when you said “not a fan of joker 1” I just looked at my phone with disgust.

[@ki11aqueen5]

I respectfully disagree and I’m just confused on how you don’t see a “coherent” story in the first joker. The first joker movie is perfect and didn’t require a sequel at all.

[@sailordaigurren8225]

I watched Joker in theatres and have had no desire to watch it again. It mostly just left me feeling a bit dirty. It wasn't a terrible movie, but it definitely wasn't for me.

[@botz77]

"Survey says?... No"

[@maeburekaiser]

I think this Joker not being a professional quality singer is more valid to the tone and subversion of the film than if he just happened to also be a great singer.

[@finklebottommale4548]

"You see we made him sing like a drunk uncle on purpose."

[@Getwright-]

So if this is “about” the first movie, do I need to have seen the first movie to understand this one?

[@norm-bb3bb]

Yes

[@Vynzent]

They just completely dropped the ball with this. They didn't do the obvious and instead made a courtroom drama why? Phoenix Joker, Lady Gaga Harley, fun wacky musical where they're out in the town causing chaos and fleeing from cop chases and being generally violent. A movie a bout a rampage where these two are having fun and having these delusions in their heads that are portrayed in song. Then have it all come crashing down in the end. The ingredients were already there! Also I heard that a lot of Gaga footage was simply cut. Hence there isn't much of her.

[@salitary]

Thank you Nando.

[@Tyulenin]

For the musicals, I kinda prefer Genie sort of musicals, as in a higher being forcing the environment and people into a musical, this allows for crazier stuff to happen, for me making it more fun and less nonsensical (I don't like musicals or music clips, they make no sense cuz musical portions are not really parts of the movie, so it feels pointless, there're easier ways to convey emotion). Also that one episode from Lucifer. Or the Mask. Brain damage is fine, I guess, dunno, would have to watch Joker 2 first. All of that are my subjective brain-ticks. Lonely Island clips work for me, cuz I'm a hypocrite.

[@joshuavanderrheede4469]

These reviews have saved me money. Was planning on seeing this movie this weekend but nope, I'm passing.

[@laraadrian1027]

Your opinion still means something.

[@joshuavanderrheede4469]

@@laraadrian1027 well, that's what these reviews are for. To give the consumer a heads up if they wanna spend their money and time on it or not.

[@chrisszostek6700]

Just wait a month and it’ll be on streaming 🤷‍♂️

[@Rrgblitz403]

@@laraadrian1027collective opinions matter, and the fact is that this movie is on track to make $100m less opening weekend worldwide than the first one. Not to mention the $200m budget. But I guess you can be a douche if it makes you feel better.

[@the_mang0slice]

​@@joshuavanderrheede4469 There's been a bunch of movies I've liked and even loved that the "collective" has passed on. Movies are art, don't let someone else override your own interpretation.

[@lavender9844]

I had a hyperfixation on the first movie last year, and I think I’ll see this for the sake of it. Worried about that ending though.

[@michaelpopely4408]

The ending fits the two films.

[@realdrizzy2k]

The original joker is just barely good for me so I didn't expect anything from this

[@jeancholidis658]

crazy take

[@Fekuni]

No just a dumb one

[@PhreshNicky]

I think the first one is bad. I was extremely disappointed in it.

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

its okay peeps they said for them let them have opinions on the quality of a film that dont reflect your own lol

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

I dunno, man. I remember DC fans clowning on Marvel fans because Joker got prestigious awards while Endgame only got 1 Oscar nom. Sure, EG was just a blockbuster as opposed to to intellectual cinema, but so what? It's got no illusion of it. It set out to be the conclusion to a Saga and did just that. Put Joker next to the movies it copied, or even Nightcrawler and that Lynne Ramsey movie, it doesn't stand a chance. In fact, much of the discussions spawned by Joker is owed to them anyway. ​@@mikestand8067

[@darksideofevil13]

Substance was something else.

[@amberbaker8652]

havent seen 2 but i think the tone problem with joker 1 was that joker's philosphy is hollow and nhilistic but the movie takes it as rich and meaningful.He diagnoses the problem right but doesnt have any solutions. Dark knight understood this which is why that depiction still beats this imo. I wonder if the movie felt it had to take jokers ideas more seriously since hes the protagonist now. I think a protagonist can still be full of shit tho and wish joker was more willing to embrace that Pheonix's performance carried what was a more medicore script imo and i'm pretty optimistic pheonix and gaga could do that for me here

[@gabrielruiz219]

People are mad angry and hateful lately. Especially on reddit where a lot of you are deciding to get there info.

[@naoquartafeiratv5486]

I see the trend. People that didn't like the first movie, also don't enjoy the sequel.

[@norm-bb3bb]

That's not the worst the worst is that fans of the first movie didn't like it too 😢

[@naoquartafeiratv5486]

@norm-bb3bb You're right. I hated it too.

[@XxTesla21xX]

What's the difference between what we get on youtube vs nebula? Looks like they're the same and dropped at the same time

[@prathapkutty7407]

I think lawyer guy with the amazing voice nando is talking about is harry lawtey.

[@AbracAlaina]

Would love to hear a Marvel or DC musical pitch!

[@axebeard6085]

Sadly, most of you failed when you stepped into the theater. 1. Did you notice that the films are set in the 1980's? 2. Did you bother to look up what folie à deux is, and its significance in the 1980's? (Hint: you'll find it in versions III and III-R of the DSM. ) 3. This is a new film with a new story. Did you set aside your preconceptions of what the film should be? 4. Did you bother to question the relative ages of Bruce Wayne and Arthur Fleck? 5. Have you ever considered how a film can convey complex emotional states in an enjoyable way? 5. Did you pay attention to every line of dialogue? 6. Did you bother to sit through the credits and listen to the tone of the end-credit music? 7. Did you bother to ask yourself what Lee is going to do after the film ends? 8. Did you notice the various ways EVERYONE wanted Joker? Did you notice how that relates to everyone's attitude towards Arthur in the first film? So, if you hated the film and answered "no" to any of my 8 questions, then all I can do is paraphrase Arthur Fleck: you got what you fucking deserved.

[@paolacarmona1369]

Thank you! I can't believe how people failed to see how they are acting like those people in court when Arthur said he is Arthur Fleck, not the Joker: they all left disappointed because he didn't give them what they wanted, and people leaving the movie theaters are feeling the same, because it is not what they wanted to see. They didn't pay attention and wanted a different kind of Joker, but this Joker was always a new one, a mentally ill person. I even remember people complaining about the first movie, saying that's not the Joker, well heck he isn't, it was a new adaptation. And what they hate the most about folie a deux, was it's ending, because it threw away all the expectations people had on this sequel. So yeah, it's exactly just how you put it, they got what they fucking deserved.

[@georgeebbrell1726]

People watch films for entertainment, they shouldn't have to complete a questionnaire before watching it

[@axebeard6085]

@@georgeebbrell1726 The questionnaire is just a tool to find out if you were actually paying attention to the film. You have every right to pay money to see a film and then not pay attention to it. But if you find yourself disappointed by a film you weren't paying attention to, then that IS NOT the fault of the director. That disappointment is all on you.

[@georgeebbrell1726]

@@axebeard6085 if the film is so badly paced that no one watching it understands the original point, then that's the films fault

[@axebeard6085]

@@georgeebbrell1726 The pacing wasn't the problem. The problem is that most people didn't pay close attention to the first film, and spent the second film waiting for Joker and Harley to tear up Gotham. You were dopamine addicts waiting for your next fix, and along comes a musical number (which has been the best method of conveying a complex emotional state on film since its invention) which pisses you off cause you're still waiting for chaos to reign. It's not like they didn't spell it out for you in the title: Joker: folie à deux. Two people sharing the same psychotic delusion. How did you think they were going to portray it? Voiceovers? Two people sitting at a dinner table doing nothing but talking? You didn't like the pacing of the courtroom scene? Well, it wasn't about the bloody trial. It was about everyone in that courtroom wanting Arthur to be something he's not, and condemning his failure to perform the way THEY wanted him to. Parts 1 and 2 were a complete story arc: Arthur going from being abused to becoming broken to being condemned. And finally, as he's sitting on that stool, he puts himself back together. He says to society "NO. I am not your slave any longer. I will not perform for you." Of course, society has NO tolerance for a person who refuses to be a slave for its desires. Just like so many people have no tolerance for getting a film they weren't expecting.

[@victorbottino7886]

Oh, there is definitely going to be another one.

[@Spbatt]

agent carter had a good musical episode

[@yungblink]

Hopeful for a part 3, we can go lower WB!

[@je5406]

Sure can. Just put up a middle finger and sit in silence for 2 hours.

[@Goldmanvision]

Yo Nando! Turn down that audio compressor a little bit!

[@gamelairtim]

Just going to say that Bug is the most horrific and best shared delusion movie ever.

[@epicbruhmoment6985]

So it's a comic book musical movie that's not really a comic book movie that's also starring someone who can't sing. Why did we make this?

[@Etticos.]

The Boys had a musical number

[@duncanlandon2328]

I gotta say I felt like this film had nothing to say compared to the first one.

[@nobo1982]

The first jokers only real flaw was that it was to subtle in its framing of joker as someone to be viewed as pathetic and pitiable and not a hero. Its the same flaw that taxi driver and falling down suffer from, angry (mostly conservative) viewers see the leads in those films as heroic and cool instead of the broken and heartbreaking losers that they are.

[@JamesLawner]

One thing’s for sure, this movie’s title won’t need to be translated in French-speaking countries 😅

[@Victor-qx3vx]

I didn’t really like the first movie and even though I like musicals I don’t think I’d like Folie a Deux either.

[@Crim222]

Old video, I know. I saw no trailers for this nor any news on it while it was filming. This movie pretty much came out of nowhere for ne. Oh, and I hated the first movie, so boring and pointless. It felt like it should have been a movie about the Riddler or some other lower teir rogue. But the musical aspect of J2 might get me to watch once it goes to streaming.

[@schizzo8959]

This is not even a comics movie, it has just names from the comics and that is it.

[@Makingajessinmypants]

So was the first one

[@SavaZakharov]

Can you pitch the new dynamic duo film