A Conversation Between Matt Berninger and David Letterman

Available to watch on KZbin, and listen as a podcast on all platforms: thenational.ffm.to/Letterman
David Letterman and Matt Berninger talk about The National’s songs & lyrics, live performances, their shared experiences of depression, and more.
Producer - Marisa Gesualdi
Editor - Chris Sgroi
Director of Photography - Alesso Romano
Cameras - Brandon Unpingco, Stuart Solomon, Alessio Romano

[@stevetollerud1192]

I divorced this year and went to The National concert (Mpls.)and cried like a baby during, About Today.. These two are legends (heroes) and this is so compelling.

[@susenwis]

When I listen to About Today I get very emotional as well. It reminds me about how I felt when I visited our premature born son, who died when he was one and a half months old. It sometimes felt like we were not really there when we visited him because of the emotions we went through. And we talked to him, but what can you tell him. He could not understand anything. I think a lot of people have their own interpretation of this great song. It’s my favourite.

[@stevetollerud1192]

The funny thing(well not so much) is I rarely cry and never in public and not even signing the divorce papers, zoom meetings with attorneys, her.. But Matt’s lyrics/voice sure did it 😢

[@stevetollerud1192]

Sorry for your loss. @@susenwis

[@witpickles]

I weap with you. That song is one of the best ever wrote.

[@CharlieSoze]

I've seen them play 14 times and never seen them play About Today. Very sorry to hear about what you've been through.

[@thelettermanpodcast]

This was an incredible conversation between two folks who observe life in EXTREMELY interesting ways.

[@OurFamilyInMotion]

Loved the interview. They need to do this as a regular interview podcast.

[@thelettermanpodcast]

@@OurFamilyInMotion could not agree more. The depth of topics were outstanding. Dave and Warren Zevon would have been excellent as well.

[@Aiur]

I knew i was depressed when it took me months to listen to I Am Easy To Find, the National is one of my favorite bands of all time, and i just couldn't find it in me to put a new album on, not out of fear of the emotions it might dredge up, but because all joy had left my life I'm better now, took leaving a relationship and walking from a six figure job, but im closer to myself than ever before. The lyric, "dont you know someday, somebody will come and find you, if you dont know who you are anymore, they will remind you" That was my friends, friends from childhood, college and then some, who reminded me who i was before all those layers of depression started to change my perspective , value system , and want out of life

[@monkeysrighthand]

I've struggled with depression and anxiety my entire life (first panic attack at 9 years old). When I found The National around 2005, it was like finding the music of my soul. Fortunately, the symptoms have eased over the years. Love this interview.

[@thelettermanpodcast]

Thanks for the vulnerability.

[@jamesmiller5331]

Who?

[@AD-fx2qd]

Great to see Matt looking and sounding healthy. Makes me happy.

[@aleph618]

Matt Berninger is one of my favourite people. I can't wait to see The National in London next year.

[@Sean_1919]

Yeah, so glad they're back in the UK so soon. I went to the Glasgow show a couple of months back and got tickets to their show at Edinburgh Castle next year too. Blown away by how good they were, goosebumps the entire show!!

[@scmcdougal8917]

Philly show

[@jamesdavis6625]

I can't quite explain it, but it brings me great joy to know that Letterman is a fan and that your songs resonate with him in the way that they do.

[@colleenjordan7687]

Same

[@tindsilkscreen]

Hey this is my screenprint, behind Matt, the "I WANT TO BELIEVE", this is so cool!

[@OurFamilyInMotion]

The I Am Easy To Find album and film have meant so much to me. Thank you Matt!!!

[@boanzone]

The National were on Letterman years ago and I remember Dave seemed so genuinely impressed by them. Super cool to see them talking all these years later.

[@marinajackson9135]

The National moves mountains in my mind I didn't even knew existed

[@witpickles]

I am so grateful for this. To have Matt and David both sharing these dark truths, not only with each other, but the world. Matt has spoken for me for years in ways I could never say. Hearing him and David describing pieces of my own life in there own experiences is incredibly moving and impactful. We're not the only one's who've struggled alone in the darkness of our own minds. Prisoners to the intangible oppressers in our heads. Thank you gentlemen.

[@jimwilliams3816]

I’m going to screw up my nerve, and thank Matt for writing the soundtrack of my life and struggles for years now. Sometimes I feel like we must have been separated at birth, but since I’m 10 years older, probably not. Still, no one eise has ever described my life and inner self like you, Matt.

[@johann1965]

I was in Lisbon (from Seattle) for a trip in October. Serendipitously ,The National (one of may all time favorite bands) were playing while I was there at Campo Pequeno, an old bull fighting arena.. It was the best show I've ever seen (and I've seen hundreds at this age). The mutual love fest between the TN and their Portuguese fans was stunning. I'm tearing up writing this, remembering what an amazing and life affirming experience it was.

[@robertsobon2318]

Matt’s lyrics have always felt like the soundtrack to my life. After watching this, I kinda sorta feel seen. I cannot express enough thanks.

[@seanahlberg1369]

A BIG thank you to David Letterman and Matt Berninger for this interview. Being someone who has suffered with MDD combined with anxiety disorder in varying degrees of severity for most of my 55 years I have to say that watching this was really cathartic for me. Depression tends to make you feel very much alone and this video reminded me that I'm not.

[@AtoZsMom]

Went with my adult children to the show at MSG. Being in the room with these artists is amazing. Matt has so much insight and David has become so interesting as he’s aged. Good for them. More men need to have these vulnerable conversations.

[@jenniferjanssen9876]

Amazing show 8/23❤

[@joshuapdavis74]

Dave is an amazingly gracious and considerate conversationalist.

[@latvians13]

This is a treasure. Their music has been, is a soundtrack of my life. Much love for both of these men for being so real. ❤❤❤

[@Amreezy]

2 hour version please! These two stellar minds need more than 27 mins...

[@michaelpastore5317]

Dave has always loved and supported musicians and bands!!!🔥👍🏻

[@lat1502]

It's great that there isn't the stigma of depression that use to be so prevalent, that it can be talked about in an open and honest way.

[@rlbumpuspdx]

Absolutely

[@louis-pauger6569]

This should be a 10 part serie, not just 30mins

[@janmckenzie]

I'm almost a year in now, not the first bout but the latest. I fear what the winter may bring. No therapy and no pills this time. I'm laying on my bed watching you on my phone. I wasn't going to comment but the tears have come and I need to say something. Thank you. I haven't realized how much I needed to hear from someone who knows.

[@beebeeguy69]

Hope the winter has been ok for you.

[@janmckenzie]

@@beebeeguy69 Thank you. It has been better. Still some problems with sleep. I was actually at the doctor's today for some blood work, just a check up as I hadn't been for a while. She recommended some counseling so I think I'll follow up with that.

[@jsegura525]

What a gracious group of humans.

[@GernickKuik]

waaaaayyyy too short, please tell me there will be more. Matt seems so at ease, Dave is clearly having a blast. There's chemistry here. Send these guys antiquing or to a farmers market, put them in a coffeeshop or just more here. but very much: more please

[@rlbumpuspdx]

Agreed. We need more!

[@ramonacotiga2135]

I could listen in for hours, thank you so much for this gem! ❤

[@user-ev2fe3rl6x]

I saw them in Minneapolis in 2013 because I wanted to see their opening act, Daughter. I had just been fired from one job and was leaving another. It was the lowest I had been in my life. Their music sent me down a rabbit hole and I realized all the connections with other artists. Cut to Aaron and Taylor writing a song with justin Vernon who I was already a huge fan of. It just rekindled my love for The National. Saw them again this summer with my long time friends. All of them are parents now, all of them have lost parents. I revel in the connections music makes between best friends as we go about living our lives. When I’m singing lyrics with friends I had no idea had been listening to the same thing all these years it’s indescribable. One of my friends I took to the National in 2013 and didn’t know the band came with me in 2023 and is a bigger fan than I am.

[@OurFamilyInMotion]

Cannot wait for this.

[@gilpinsteven]

Same!!

[@IrrealElbarto]

By “this” you mean depression, right?

[@vascomedeiros3600]

The National and Matt, you are just legendary, really. 1 year of listening to you, going to concerts, and I'm just so sad that I only got to meet them now at age 21. Jeez. I wish had I met when I most needed you. Your music is like a drug. You can't just stop listening, especially the live versions. So captivating, so deep, so mind exploring and so much feeling. For sure, gonna see you live again when you come back to Portugal (in Porto now, in 2024). You're just incredible. I feel like I could be listening to this in loop and just having me talking to Matt. So insightful conversations. I honestly that's my "dream" : getting to know Matt and the band. You guys are outstanding. Keep it up

[@freshwindbrightsky]

Okay now I'm just counting the days til my next Natioanl show... Loved this convo so very much; living with someone who has debilitating depression...it is always so helpful to get any kind of insight about that experience, thank you thank you thank you...cry baby cry.

[@billverine765]

Matt and Dave, thank you for being so honest about having self doubts and insecurities. It is refreshing to know that we are all in the same boat and even a legend like Dave has much in common with an average joe like. Also, Dave, I still miss your show btw. Colbert is great, but I wish you both had a show. :)

[@thelettermanpodcast]

Could not agree more.

[@Dan-fy3vp]

The beautiful thing about these two as I see it, and maybe they'd disagree, is that even when they're in performance mode they still retain who they are at their core. They've always come across as being true to themselves, and maybe that inner battle they've experienced while wrestling with the social gaze is necessary to achieve that. Matt is truly an alchemist, making the most brilliant and captivating sounds from what at face value might appear melancholy or mundane to most people.

[@seanfinlay7393]

Love it! Both men are class acts!

[@iamtylerhenry]

this was great. found myself wanting more, would have loved to hear dave ask questions about every single song he found fascinating/interesting in some way. as a comedy buff but not so much attuned to music, i loved dave's questions, and matt's answers enlightening (and of course, i'm sure many of us who like dave/the national have had experience with depression, so that was fascinating as well)

[@detectivegumshoe695]

Fantastic conversation, told with great sensitivity and humor

[@Lonerism-Innerspeaker]

I can't wait to see The National at Edinburgh Castle next summer.

[@MankindFilm]

I went to see the Arcade Fire perform in Atlanta and this band called “the national” was opening, I’d never heard of them so took a pit stop to get some Taco Bell. Also had some shrooms with my burrito. Anyways I walked into the auditorium and the shrooms were kicking in and they were playing “about today” That song live was life changing and better than most of the actual concert from arcade fire. I love this band and I’m so glad I stumbled into such a masterpiece of a song that day.

[@Sean_1919]

If I even think about that song my whole body gets goosebumps never mind hearing it!!🤣

[@tm4230]

I walked into an Italian disco once on a Sunday afternoon , and 10cc’s “I’m not in love “ was playing , mirrorball spinning, sparkling walls, granted it wasn’t THE NATIONAL ! And I wasn’t on schrooms, and ARCADE FIRE! wasn’t playing, but I know that perfect moment. You are so lucky to have seen them both! Thank you for the great video,David and Matt. I wish I were as talented as you guys. Who will even read this? Thanks for the funny comment. They must’ve been shiitake, right?

[@jagchuk]

Thank you for this discussion. I have felt alone in this. My pride gets in the way as far as dealing with it. Getting help

[@tomweismantelmusic]

Two of my favorites in entertainment together. Never would have guessed this interview would occur but I'm thankful for it. I really enjoyed their thoughtful discussion on depression. It's good big celebs like these guys are talking about their struggles. Deep guys. Love em both so so much.

[@blicht1974]

Absolutely fantastic!

[@efgould]

I've never heard Matt's speaking voice. I would have expected it to be as deep as his singing voice.

[@thall8095]

I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope the two of you will do more.❤

[@lancreb]

I’m a depressed therapist myself and there was a lot of this conversation that was relevant to this dark ennui and post-burnout apathy I’ve been feeling. I identify so much with the idea of living a duality/needing to perform despite your humanity - and it’s of my own design because I was eat sleep breathe sacrifice self for the clinical craft for the early years. Thanks for posting, we all need community when the struggle feels a little heavier wit this condition.

[@CerealBoxPhilosopher]

I loved this interview so much! ❤️❤️ I could listen to 3 more hours of these two chatting with each other...please do a part two 🙏🏽🥰

[@Vorago_]

One of the best lyricists out there!

[@andreaargena6268]

i rediscovered the National last year, after i broke up with my now ex girfliend. i felt i didn't diserved to be loved, that i was going to screw up everything in my life. the National helped me a lot during that time (in particular i listened to Sleep Well Beast), i really relate to Matt's lyrics and i felt, and still feel, understood. thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you created so far, i'm looking forward to come to your show in italy this summer. love you so much

[@sethie_shots]

This is incredible. I love their relationship. Thought something was up when they were both on Colbert. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@caronproctor8764]

Thank you for this, these conversations are golden. I love how Matt is kinda coaching David L, We are looking forward to seeing The National in Feb in New Zealand.

[@jconner78]

I love how Dave did decades of entertaining fluff tv and since retiring he’s been doing the most incredible interviews of a lifetime now. I grew up watching him and he’s better than ever

[@ShiningEyeBrigade]

Thank you for this, it was healing.

[@jsegura525]

I'm here from Albuquerque, NM. We saw The National on 11/14/23 in a venue with maybe 1,200 people. Matt and the Band were on FIRE. Wish we could go to Europe in June to see the shows..... maybe I'll hit the lottery.....maybe.

[@MatthewMaiorana]

Really great convo! And worth watching the Colbert interview / performance & listening to Strike Force Five interview for even more. It all connects which is pretty cool. Like a David Letterman multiverse from the past few months.

[@stephenhasty252]

Would love to sit and talk about my side of life with these guys... brother/father questions I don't get from my world

[@biblichorvibes]

IMMEDIATELY WATCHING THIS IS GONNA BE AMAZING

[@thelettermanpodcast]

Yup!

[@dancranor7449]

Thanks guys...

[@ellebeau8041]

Loved this!

[@alyonalobanova1086]

thank you for this conversation 🤍

[@AndreRelaxSun]

Two favorite people🙏🏼

[@charold3]

Love both these men. The National one of the best bands oh 21st century, and Letterman has been a minor god to me for about 43 years.

[@alexvalentine4934]

More uncut from arrival to leaving--- please!!!!

[@robharper7390]

Beautiful

[@mayavril1]

Great conversation and insight

[@bertowens3100]

I wish I had just a small amount of these guys perception and eloquence. Thanks for the insight.

[@cucamongaduke3600]

I was in the car driving when I first heard “Tropic Morning News” and the imagery was almost instantaneous in me. “Something somehow has you rapidly improving…” is such an incredibly layered lyric - like, I’m happy for you and your progress toward being normal; but I wish I knew the secret sauce because without it I’m just going to be stuck here in my own hell. I drove on with this song telling me the story of some fictitious failed relationship and became overcome with emotion. The National had become one of my favorites in those moments.

[@HunterHunter93]

Hits hard

[@mstrnimbus]

this is great !

[@underrun]

I'm only more a fan of you both after hearing this discussion. Hugely helpful.

[@MAronson]

I’m always wanted a sequel to LOOPER

[@ellenwood2167]

This was a great conversation!

[@JoshBenson]

Awesome.

[@colleenjordan7687]

‘ have you tried cottage cheese? ‘ 😂😂😂 fucking brilliant .

[@colleenjordan7687]

… me neither by the way

[@wjansen3276]

wonderfull , i have been a ( singer song wrighter for years?)becouse it was the only way to get my feelings of depression and anxiety out of my head, so i could see it and start to understand what my brain is doing , to hear others talk about the same things means im knot the only one , there is comfort in this , thank you both !

[@seaoftranquility7228]

I was just thinking the other day about the unique perspective DL has on a popular music. A live musical guest on his show _five nights a week for 33 years_ ! From launching obscure (then) up and comers like REM to well established juggernauts like U2 he’s had a front row (well slightly to the side) seat to all the most relevant bands in the world playing live. No wonder he can pick a good band from a mediocre one.

[@GraceElly]

I ❤ this

[@robfranks]

American Cosmic on the back shelf. Hell yeah Matt. 🛸

[@jsalem343]

Stories of monkeys and digital religions

[@mark11967AD]

Seeing Dave be so polite and sedate it actually reminds me of some of his early interviews on his morning show and when he first started on late night television. Not that I remembered these per se lol but saw some of them on youtube. Anyway his clinical vocabulary is a bit off putting but it’s also nice seeing the mature nice guy version of Dave as opposed to the agitator/smart ass. Anyway glad he’s keeping busy doing what he does best talking to people. And speaking of depression it’s not a hard time to imagine that with the way society and the world is failing apart. Here’s hoping for a miraculous turnaround. And please vote.

[@chadnorth10]

wow, what a treasure

[@brightwhite22]

About today always makes me think of my first girlfriend. And how happy I was with her but she didn’t love me like I loved her. Just like all my ex girlfriends. Still haven’t found what I’m looking for. I pray I’ll find the right one but I’m 36 sometimes I feel like it’s too late. That song always gets me. I love The National. Turns out I didn’t like the National when my ex showed them to me but when she left me that’s all I listened to and fell in love with them. Ironic.

[@linguatonica9782]

It might help if you imagine it could be worse. Try to think about what happens to the ones among us who are depressives without being brilliant or without a good financial situation or, worst, coping with both of these two cherries on the cake.

[@newfreethink]

We are not our outputs. We are not our work. We are so much more

[@rickmartinez7386]

Esto va a ser épico, papus.

[@mayavril1]

Whatever they were eating is the pink rabbits version of food 😅

[@noble_experiment]

Matt, your best song is ‘Not in Kansas’ thanks for making it.

[@danielsacilotto3196]

Good conversation, but God I wish Letterman would not interrupt so much.

[@bwpm1467]

Couldn't have said it any better.

[@NourZh1]

Holy shit!!!! 😮😮😮

[@dinrinch997]

Matt looks like he is stifling frustration every time Letterman talks over him

[@joshuaallman6034]

I'm here now.

[@thisislag]

I've had slight depression my whole life, but 2020. was different. In 2019. I rolled up my sleeves, worked my ass off on music and beginning of 2020. it started to show some great results (and it also brought on the beginning of a burnout that I only healed of in September this year). When covid hit all I worked on got wiped into non-existence (the music scene is like that - no seniority or experience matters unless you are actively riding a wave that you yourself have created for you) and I fell, for the first time, in a serious depression. I even had my frist (and I hope - last) suicidal episode. What a feeling... I disagree with the notion of depression being a thing that shows you the -real world- as it always works in one of the three combinations: 1. I am shit 2. Why do anything as everything is pointless 3. A general feeling of dread. I've never heard anyone have it hit them differently then one of these three or a combination of them. It's a virus that feeds you these thoughts, shows you the entire world through one of these lenses and a suicidal episode is just the virus not allowing you to see or think anything besides these things. It's an emotionally painful thing, blinding you to anything besides a though "I want this to stop". Going through this made me understand more why people who are successful but suffer depression end up offing themselves. Talking about it made me less ashamed to have passed through it because it confirmed to me that it's not me that is weak, but it really is just a virus that turns you into someone you are not for a while and to a certain extent. I am so happy that people are talking about this more openly, allowing others to see it for what it is and feel less alien for experiencing something that is maybe invisible, but certainly real and valid.

[@paulaartfactu5117]

❤

[@TerryGunnell12]

It's like David Letterman interviewing his past self

[@darthcon348]

let him talk

[@deckerbob]

What is remarkable and confusing, only 286K subscribers? 😮

[@livemusicfansf]

David is a huge fan boy. Just wants to talk about what he wants to.

[@Soundofsilver2007]

Letterman has always has obscure underground artists on his show dating back to having maybe the 2 weirdest artists to walk the earth in Captain Beefheart and Pee-Wee Herman. Btw they^^ both are two of the 25-50 greatest artists/performers of the 20th Century.

[@user-tg6zj6kk8n]

the "turn on a personality, for an intense few hours, then turn it off...next day turn it on, turn it off" sounds like being a teacher/professor. You have to be someone else, you have to preform for an audience, you have to get them to like you, work them through their own emotions and daily issues, try to impart something lasting, and then do it again and again - sometimes completely different setlists (lessons) in completely different forms (different histories/maths/sciences). then try to rest. and do it again the next day." And get reviewed on how the audience feels about the performance. shows how much teachers are on stage. and how draining it is to do so, day after day.

[@jolango1173]

So true. My first week of summer break I create a big chore around the house in attempt to fight off the downturn.

[@jean-paullederer5367]

I heard that the other 2 members of REM are still performing.

[@scottworsham]

Saying no is Important. Take care of yourself first , because if you don't, you're no good to anyone.

[@cosmonot47]

Dave was in no way a carbon copy of carson,regardless of what he thinks. His show inspired generations of comedians in such an extraordinary way,and i hope he’ll eventually understand that.

[@joshnkoy]

this might do more for men’s mental health than a bunch of shit in history 😂🙌🏿

[@josepha133]

I'm a woman and I have never heard men talk about mental health as vulnerably as these two do here. I hope this gives other men the permission to be more open about their struggles.