i hate Sonic Forces more than Sonic '06

[@dragonclaw4159]

This analogy is dark, but bear with me here: Sonic 06 is like if a massive cargo plane tries to take a grand flight around the world but the engines end up dying mid flight due to technical issues reported prior to the flight, and it crashes into an active volcano. Sonic forces didn't want to crash into that volcano, so it cuts down on expenses so much that the plane can't even get off the ground.

[@sophialambert6320]

That's a whole new realm of insult there and I'm all for it. If someone ever discusses Sonic Forces and 06, Imma use this analogy

[@adreeeandanothere510]

Damn this has gotta be the most detailed analogy of sonic in general

[@Sonicfalcon16]

I dont even need to comment. You made my points better then I ever could

[@commandercody4984]

I agree with this here I hate 06 more than forces cause in my opinion they tried to do something with forces but they failed same thing with 06 they tried to do something great but they failed because of deadline

[@Hyp3rSonic]

I agree 👍

[@robertb.warren4749]

I love how Sonic is beaten, captured, presumably tortured, and acts like he couldn't give a single, solitary shit about any of it. It's almost like he's aware of how stupid the story is and decided to just phone it in. Lol

[@robertb.warren4749]

@Golden Pug Studios It's a real shame. Smh

[@TheSnowQueen_369]

When you've literally been killed at least once and almost died multiple times in the past 30 or so years, nothing really phases you.

[@bluedogz1624]

The countless story rewrites absolutely RUINED that segment

[@orangeslicerz]

Bro there isnt even a scratch or bruise or nothing to show the "torture" he went through

[@CasualGamer2000]

​@@orangeslicerz I believe the "Torture" part was only in the English Dub of the game. I think the JP dub just said he was being held "Captive."

[@MAN-MILK]

Sonic Colors cooked with a microwave. Sonic generations used a frying pan. Sonic Unleashed grilled. Sonic 06 burnt down the kitchen. And Sonic Forces couldn't even light the stove

[@Katakuna15]

Then what was Lost World, Frontiers, and Shadow Generations?

[@seanthompson1950]

😂😂😂

[@thatashgirly]

@@Katakuna15lost world was leftovers, frontiers was a firepit, and shadow gens was a cast iron skillet

[@chatd20061]

*insert next sonic game* was the whole stove

[@Katakuna15]

I forgot to add. Colors: Ultimate is cooked with an even worse microwave. Edit (11/21/24): Removed username ping.

[@august9474]

From what I heard sonic Forces was developed by a completely new team that didn't know what they were doing.

[@truearea53]

Ah no wonder that it’s so mediocre and the same repeat from Colors.

[@DonaldVale]

@@truearea53 sega and Disney repeated with this dad goes to get milk joke everytime

[@TurboPikachu]

It was developed exclusively by either newcomers, or devs whose only prior credit in the franchise was on Lost World (i.e. 5 years maximum)

[@Jason-..-]

​@@truearea53colours is an amazing game, and it has nothing to do with forces. Dont compare them

[@truearea53]

@@Jason-..- Bruh. I wasn’t bad mouthing colors for it’s an amazing Sonic game. I was talking about forces for it’s a very poorly made game that copied the same thing from colors and lost worlds.

[@MarkiplierMeatMuncher8]

27:25 I really love how you can see the pain and annoyance in this clip. You read the hint, attempt to do the thing the hint tells you. You fail to do it, clearly looking confused, you read the hint AGAIN to see if you missed something, you try it AGAIN now that you're absolutely sure, and fail miserably again.

[@Avada_ontop]

Reminds me of THE cup head clip lol

[@georgeshaw4017]

Let’s not forget this: Tails is not the only one who has become useless. Everyone has. Amy, Knuckles, the Chaotix, Silver, and everyone! They had similar if not better moves like Sonic does. But when he disappears, all they do is sit for SIX MONTHS waiting for Sonic. They have not done ANYTHING at all and just let Eggman take over. This leads to a point where Sonic doesn’t even need his friends anymore, since they serve no purpose. Sure they do fight at the end, but that’s only when Sonic, Classic Sonic, and the Rookie are around. Where exactly was that power MONTHS AGO?!?!? Amy you got a hammer and similar moves like Sonic! Knuckles you got strength! Silver you have Psychokinesis! You don’t need Sonic to be around to fight! I understand not making them playable, but it’s not good to make them useless! Sonic, Shadow, Classic Sonic, and the Rookie are the ones who fight the most. Everyone else just sits and does nothing. Even Vector comments this! “Nice moves, but if you hog all the glory how am I gonna look good?” BY DOING SOMETHING VECTOR!!!! It is like they are purposely poking the fact that they have all become useless! Fix this in Sonic Frontiers and future games SEGA!!!! 😡😡

[@DexDexter0]

The post 06 games have a habit of making everyone useless besides Sonic. It's baffling when we see how they all are some level of superpowered, but speed is apparently the only one that matters

[@Gnidel]

It's the most insulting for Shadow who is more or less equal to Sonic.

[@emperortoho]

@@Gnidel and silver who is on par with sonic

[@mochamanplays257]

Doesn’t Silver try to fight Infinite and get his ass beat?

[@fklondike]

@@mochamanplays257yes, but he shouldn’t have gotten defeated the way he did. Silver, Knuckles and Shadow should have been way more integral considering they’re all comparable to Sonic in terms of strength. With Shadow being arguably stronger

[@raccoonenjoyer01]

The thing I always say is: at least 06 tried

[@CuteRedPanda64]

It really didn't.

[@panch3470]

​@@CuteRedPanda64Then you must be blind

[@Hyp3rSonic]

@@panch3470 tbf, sonic 06 was planned to be a glitchy, rushed mess that was to ambitious. Forces did what it set out to do, but its just mediocre. also, it wasn't a glitchy mess. But it was definitely rushed

[@alphetti4348]

@@CuteRedPanda64yes tf it did It was too ambitious for its own good with the little time the team was given to work on it

[@ursfan]

​@@alphetti4348 also the dev team got cut in half for Secret Rings.

[@TheCommentaification]

Straight and simple review from me. I had fun playing Sonic 06. I did not have fun playing Sonic Forces.

[@truearea53]

Same here. Got bored with forces so fast after clearing the final boss, same thing like Colors. 06 is the winner.

[@markharbath31X9]

Here’s my review to 1 I agree / same here 2 I agree / same here

[@neorobloxreal]

I had fun playing sonic forces, sonic forces was one of the good games for me

[@DeltaLunar2]

Like at least 06 has something going for it, gameplay-wise. It was just rushed to the point where the gameplay itself was mediocre at best. Still, there's proof it can be cleaned up (Enter Project 06.) Story wasn't that bad either, not entirely. Sonic Forces on the other hand was just horrid.

[@jayceallen6530]

I felt soulless by around the 14th level in the game it just feels empty to play

[@firestar4407]

At least Sonic 06 had the excuse of being rushed. Unlike the developers of Sonic Forces, who thought it would be fine to hire 2 AMATEUR level designers.

[@furious_taylor7719]

Not to mention they had an entire four years of development time and they spent three of those years making a fuck!ig light engine which didn’t come close to the graphics of sonic unleashed so good job sonic team you had more than enough time and you fu@ked it up

[@firestar4407]

@@furious_taylor7719 "From the team that brought you Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations" They also had the gall of pulling off false advertising. How shameful.

[@furious_taylor7719]

@@firestar4407 and don’t even get me started on chaos he appears in the worst sonic cutscene ever yes even worse then THE KISS SCENE you know the one At least that scene had a pretty cool moment but cutscene 3 in Sonic forces is practically everything wrong with the 2010s Sonic games betraying the characters and turning them into a hollow vision of what they used to be in this cutscene’s case TAILS remember when he did stuff like fight chaos with four emeralds f7*k that let’s pretend that never happened and undo his development then chaos oh he can’t talk let’s not even give him a fight even though Adventure fans have been waiting for 20 years to get something nope let’s get rid of him and CLASSIC SONIC Imagine being an adventure fan you patiently wait for some sort of sonic adventure news 20 years later you finally get something and then it’s taken away by classic sonic you know the one that in the 2010’s had been getting tons of love it probably made A lot of adventure fans question if they should even like the franchise anymore and now adventure fans arguing with classic fans makes sense

[@firestar4407]

@@furious_taylor7719 Classic Sonic is there just to reminds us we should have bought Mania instead of Forces. Starting from Colors, the stories and writing got quite crappier. I hate Sonic's attitude in recent games (especially in Colors and Lost World, ugh), and how Tails has become more and more useless over the years (despite having starred at least 2 GAMES alone, and that one time he saved Station Square by HIMSELF). Sonic 06 may have had it's infamous moments, but the characters' personalities were still on point. For me, The Black Knight has the best story. That is where Sonic's true characterization shined the most (especially the speech he gives before fighting Merlina, hot damn). Look at him now in Forces, he's an unfunny jokester in the least appropiate situations, many f*cking thanks, Pontac and Graff. Why Sega thought bringing the writers of HAPPY TREE FRIENDS to write Sonic storylines was a good idea is beyond me. I loved the Adventure games. And honestly I would like to play a remake. But I fear that they will do a shitty job. I don't want the remakes to be directed by Morio Kishimoto, nor do I want Sonic's personality to be changed and/or be voiced by Roger Craig Smith. No thanks, I'm just fine with the original games.

[@hendix2200]

@@furious_taylor7719 Hedgehog Engine 2 is FAR more advenced than it's first interation and can produce far better lightning, Unleashed looks better because unlike Sonic Forces, it had a great art direction, not because of technical superiority.

[@aozorahaou2643]

Oh my God I hate that argument of its for kids, it's called treating your audience with respect and not treating them like idiots that need their hand held. Like jeez like you said games back then that catered to those my age when we were kids back then still challenged us making it fun, like the Kingdom Hearts series its geared to a general audience of Disney fans, but it has a challenging gameplay depending on what path you take and what difficulty you play.

[@aegisScale]

Yeah, turns out kids do enjoy a challenge. A lotta DS Pokemon games aren't too tough, sure, but they know when to provide challenge and complexity to the ambitious kids who go looking for it, and they sure as hell don't hold the player's hand once they get out of the beginning town. It's always irritated me that people think "kids' media" should be dead-simple coddling slop that'll kill the braincells of anyone who consumes it.

[@Wzeyisbacklmao]

I thought Nintendo was for kids

[@DeltaLunar2]

15:54 Yeah so uh....Funny thing about that. The whole "torture" thing was just some weird change that was in the English version. At the very least, the Japanese version of the game just mentions Sonic being imprisoned. I don't even know what happened there, but yeah.

[@DavidBlaiseSGaela]

The original script for infinite being a experiment being by eggman makes sense because the concept art his first design literally looks like a demon

[@extremmefan7305]

Another remnant is one of the final levels straightup having Tails and Amy on the interphone literally saying "so this is where Eggman built Infinite..." and "what a sad place to be brought into the world", as if the original script was still the one that level was meant for.

[@justice8718]

⁠@@extremmefan7305 I think they kept this lore, but in a Darth Vader and Clone Troopers kind of way. For example, Infinite and the Jackals are Zero to cuatro (four). Infinite’s entire theme song is about him looking at his entire past as an illusion. It gives me the vibe that Eggman created them to be rouge prototypes that lead into him creating the ultimate lifeform, only to ironically finalize Zero into Infinite. Episode Shadow in general was supposed to be bigger than what we got in the final game.

[@Mephy.]

Fun fact about the ring-live system: In the 1.0 version of the game you cannot recollect your rings after taking damage but they day-1 patched that and make it so you can collect them as always.

[@TurboPikachu]

I *knew* I wasn't hallucinating about that. I was almost impressed because, while I think it isn't lore-accurate, it would've been an interesting challenge for what ended up being the easiest game in the entire series

[@dundde3982]

Even Mephilis who has no real battles in the story of 06 unless you go through shadow’s perspective is more of a character than infinite ever was developed to be since he had become a static standard villain. A villain that has one singular point, personality, or set of moral values that remain unchanged and undeveloped despite changes or developments in the story. Yet somehow a character that only has one goal and never truly changed the way they were, was a better character. Mephilis was a villain that not only had a plan, he acted the role he choose for himself perfectly and showed that he could toy with the entire cast of heroes and still get exactly what he wants and make himself the ultimate villain of the story. While infinite, is just an angry Edgelord who sacrificed his team and joined eggman’s side for power. Who also just entirely ignores his entire background to keep this “power hungry Edgelord” persona while mephilis is the mastermind that taunts the cast of silver and blaze by acting as their friend, someone who wants to stop a major threat in their world and manipulates them into thinking the main character sonic is the reason iblis awakened. Even to the fights, I admit infinite has some neat attacks but it’s all just blocks. Nothing. But. Blocks. Even silver has a more dynamic form attacking despite being such bullcrap within 06 that you can’t even get out of the corner or off a wall before you get back your rings. At least silver uses an attack that is a cool idea while infinite’s only dynamic inclusion is if you’re ever hit and the illusion world shows up. Which removes infinites influence on the fight other than placing obstacles…silver even in generations at least throws cars at you even if he already hits ya. He doesn’t just- stop. Whether or not this is a fair judgement, this is what I see of the game of forces. It is a mediocre game and there are many elements in previous games that are more disappointing when you rewatch them in comparison to even the normal levels in this game because they’re better than forces more than half the time. Oh right, few more complaints-...a level is to short for the music or you listen to the music for at least one minute before F I S T B U M P starts blaring from no where. The music in forces is actually alright at times, but you’ll only ever hear any of it if you plan to outright stop progressing the level at all due to the short distance the levels have or the dreaded FISTBUMP INSERTION (screw you arsenal pyramid). But, when you do listen to the music it is true- most of it is the same set of instruments, because there is never enough time to even listen to the parts where it does become unique. Funny detail, easy mode is faster than hard mode, why? Ask sega I guess because I don’t got a clue. For some reason playing on hard mode makes all characters s l o w e r for a sense of difficulty?? Why in the world would it be s l o w e r than the EASY mode whenever E A S Y mode is supposed to be E A S I E R than the H A R D mode? It’s almost an insult when you realize you won’t ever notice this unless you get bored and just switch the difficulty for fun when the game presents hard mode as a challenge and this game’s hard mode was so easy that I beat it in an hour, its easy mode actually made me struggle more and took me at least an hour and a half. That’s all my complaints, if there are any opinions against these sure, I’ll read. Hell even suggest me some classic sonic songs that are good and I’ll listen happily if it is good. Not trying to say I’m an expert, but this video is right when it’s said that the music in this game is mostly the same and classic sonic music hurts the ears.

[@dundde3982]

If I said anything wrong in the comment, gladly light me a flame. I do not care for forces due to its mediocrity.

[@PurpleBoi69]

Great essay dude

[@epicmike205]

Didn't read all that but whatever you said I agree

[@dundde3982]

@@epicmike205 good, I never wanted it to be read in the first place. I hate that I had to write that much just for a game like this.

[@qwertyman321]

I wouldn't go so hard on infinite for is a non character, remember what OP video said about him, je a victim of rewrites, mania tie-in, and sonic team cowardice to challenge themselves. Infinite could of been a good secondary villian and the starting point for a normalization of sonic OC's as a game selling point aka sonic isekai if they let you use the base of real sonic characters.

[@Vixorous]

A bad game is still better than a boring game.

[@buster3041]

No it's not. A boring game is functional. A bad game makes you never want to see it again.

[@365mimimi]

@@buster3041I’d argue that being a boring game is far more offensive than a bad one. You can find the fun in a bad game but a boring game leaves you with nothing.

[@xxmurderer7xx287]

​@@buster3041A game ain't functional if it ain't fun.

[@georgeshaw4017]

@@xxmurderer7xx287 The thing is, besides the whole Sonic And Elise Love Story which was awkward (Since Ames and Sally are already love interests for Sonic!) the major issue with Sonic 06 is the fact it’s a rushed buggy mess. We can see by Project 06 that Sonic 06, under all the crap it has, had loads of hidden and great potential! Imagine the most precious gem in the entire world buried under a mountain of crap. That’s Sonic 06! Mephiles is a liked Sonic Villain as well! I’ve seen and heard people have fun with Sonic 06, even with the issues! At least they TRIED! Sonic Forces on the other hand, Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff, the writers of the Sonic Games starting from Sonic Colors knew nothing about Sonic and didn’t even bother to even learn about the good characteristics they had. They are all poorly written. That’s why Sonic doesn’t seem to care that he was locked up, beaten, and tortured for six months and seems cheerful as normal. The game may be polished, but the story is boring, the characters are boring, the villains are boring, the and the gameplay is boring! Infinite’s Backstory is lame, he just got his butt dropkicked by Shadow and was called weak, now he’s evil. That’s basically it. Everyone besides Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic, and the OC Rookie were the only ones capable of doing anything. Sure the Sonic IDW Comics fixed this, but that doesn’t save Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff because Ian Flynn writes the Sonic IDW Comics and wrote the story of Sonic Frontiers. And yes, the Sonic IDW Comics are Canon! But the fact Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff made it originally written that everyone else was a useless sack of batteries, nothing can excuse them. Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff didn’t even TRY!

[@xxmurderer7xx287]

@@georgeshaw4017 Yeah everything you said was correct, and when I said what I said, I meant that games are meant to be fun so if a game is boring it ain't functional. Sonic 06 is super buggy, rushed and unpolished as you said. But it can still be fun in some ways more than Forces at least. And Forces is more polished and all but it ain't fun, and to me a game that's meant to be fun but isn't fun is not functional no matter how clean it is.

[@heroicgangster9981]

I don't get the idea of Classic Sonic speaking being a sin, like yeah I prefer him to be silent, but that's only if he is given something substantial to do other than being gameplay fodder. Classic Sonic should be able to speak like everybody else but that's a franchise era discussion in of itself.

[@BestGirlsBiggestFan]

He was never silent though, Sonic CD has him speak when you get an extra life or a time out, and the 1999 OVA does it too. The same "black dot eye, small and round" classic Sonic. Calling him silent is like calling Bowser a plumber

[@AllardRT]

I kinda hate the idea of Classic Sonic being silent when everyone around him isn't. Like, it makes sense in games like Superstars where EVERYONE is silent IN-GAME, including Eggman, but we see that he actually speaks in-universe, but we as an audience don't hear it, kinda like classic silent cartoons. But if everyone else (ESPECIALLY CLASSIC TAILS) speaks, then he should speak too.

[@ViltrumiteIsRite99]

It can’t be overstated. Before I was born, Tails beat multiple bosses without Sonic’s help. When aged to a young adult, Tails cowers to the nerfed form of someone he’s already beat before…. AND, in Frontiers , instead of trudging on to brighter heights… we TALK about being better in the NEXT game. Hopefully Tails gets some love in this new era of Sonic.

[@KgEclispe252]

The fact that a movie studio knew how to develop Tails better than Sega is quite sad

[@jimmmybacon9043]

The best thing to come out of forces was the sonic IDW comics

[@furious_taylor7719]

Agreed 100%

[@S3onicHed3ehog]

the only good song I'm forces is Fist Bump

[@truearea53]

The only thing that’s epic about forces is making your own avatar and Infinite. But everything else about forces blows so hard, even the final boss. The same thing from Colors.

[@crashban4t.f.s.b783]

@@S3onicHed3ehog That’s true. Infinite’s theme is “edgy”. It’s cringe asf.

[@abicrystalwing1543]

@@crashban4t.f.s.b783 Hard disagree, I love the song. Yeah in the context of the story, it's pretty stupid. But if you look at the song by itself, it slaps hard.

[@IPODsify]

It's crazy that in this game where knuckles and rouge lead a military force with tails and any as major tacticians in it. You play as NONE of them

[@cloudshines812]

2017: This game is just okay and better than Unleashed 2018: This game is worse than Sonic Unleashed but still okay 2019: This game is wasted potential and actually quite bad 2020-2022: This game is worse than Sonic 06 What amazing character development Sonic Fans have

[@KN-ox1fe]

Sonic fans have been saying it's worse than sonic 06 the day it came out. They did the same thing with sonic boom. Where have you been?

[@hwanniggles187]

The fuck kind of forums have you been in? Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has claimed Forces to be better than Unleashed, OR Generations. Since its release people have claimed for it to be below Colors which "was" the worst boost game before this atrosocity. We all collectively agree that it is wasted potential but that doesnt excuse this lazy-ass, boring, uninspiring, incompenent, waste of a game that bastardizes the legacy of this series to a worse degree than Lost World and FUCKING SONIC BOOM. Not only that but the promises they made which we learned was a straight lie to our faces was another thing that pisses me off. Pure bait by having the likes of CHAOS AND SHADOW as villians again which this game does nothing with. And my god the actual game itself has to be the most boring, on-rails, "boost to win", garbage Ive played. Everyone controls like fucking ass, the levels have some of the worst level design ever and shitty aesthetics which look ugly as fuck. Unleashed and Generations, games released IN THE PREVIOUS GENERATION OF CONSOLES LOOKS BETTER. This art style looks disgusting and was clearly just reused assets from Lost World. This game pisses me off so much. This is a result of negligence from Sega and Sonic Team, not development hell and time constraints like Sonic 06 went through. This was clearly a "shit we need to make a game. There, good enough". Its a half-assed product for the sake of having a product out for its anniversary

[@y2commenter246]

I remember the more tepid reactions. Gotta wonder what future years will bring to this game's reputation.

[@EliRetroVHS642]

Sonic boom is far and I mean FAR worse then Sonic 06, Sonic boom is just stright up broken 06 is way more stable then Sonic boom.

[@URFTBOUND4LIFE]

@@EliRetroVHS642 The only reason why people hated Boom because they wanted it to fail right out of the gate because they thought it was replacing the mainline games in spite of the fact that Sega said numerous times that it wasn't. I feel worse for Boom than 06 because that game was a victim of self sabotage by the higher-ups at SEGA , simply because they couldn't decide what it is they wanted out of the game. They hired BRB to make and action platform game then told them it has to be on par with the animated series they had planned so they had to scrap the original story and backstories written for some characters (Sticks had a far more important and promanint role in the storyline). Then they dropped the bomb on them telling them it's going to be a WIiU game mid development so they had to scrap basically all the gameplay ideas and mechanics they had and was forced to work overtime to get it to run, all because Sega wanted out of their 3 Sonic exclusive deal with Nintendo. I'll always feel bad for Boom because Sega pulled the rug out from under a new studio they hired and now it's doors are shut for good...and it was all for Sonic Forces. Let that sink in.

[@eway44]

I love Silver in 06 but a single line in Forces misunderstands his character: “I’m an optimist, but I’m also a realist” REALISTS DON’T TRUST A RANDOM GUY WITH A VAGUE PLAN THATS JUST “KILL THIS GUY” ON THE SLIM HOPE YOU CAN PREVENT THE APOCALYPSE! You know who would? A TRUE OPTIMIST!

[@GamingPiratesTwitch]

Tbf Silver in 06 was actually desperate for a way to destroy iblis, and he was naive too, but yeah that line doesn’t make sense for a character who was optimistic yet naive and desperate

[@KnucklestheEcidna]

something I noticed that I also have come to find extremely infuriating is that for some stupid reason. Modern sonic games ALWAYS have to be LINKED to whatever the Classic sonic games are doing. in that sense the games will never truly be able to break free from it's current state of affairs.

[@opadrip]

Sonic 06 was fun bad Sonic Forces was just bad

[@allgerfan]

06 was not fun☠️ it was broken bad I got more fun out of creating a custom character alone than I did with the entirety of 06

[@fountainredhaiter9882]

Don't forget how the entire game is so quick. It was even finished in like 2 hours.

[@N-R40k]

9:31 It's worse when you realize that inside the Death Egg there are still prisoners and people trapped in cells.

[@Vegitodraws]

31:12 ngl, this part fucking killed me

[@imholy8188]

I would have laughed but my parents heard it

[@Sonicfalcon16]

I wasn't expecting that 😅

[@IamJay02]

LMFAO

[@XJ43088]

I have *so much* to say about this game, but I'll keep it short because nobody likes walls of text and nobody cares enough to read everything. Honestly... I kinda agree with this review. These 2 games are about on the same level of bad to me. But one thing I will say about 06 is that it had the effort, it had the ambition and it had the passion and it had the soul. You see what they were going for, but they just...missed the mark. Recently, a user named Charriii5 recently made a video about the things he liked about Sonic 06, and in that video, he made a really good point about the fact that we should look at what a game tried to go for rather than all the bad things about it, and there were some things that he opened my eyes about, honestly. I know that can apply to this game, too, but honestly, there's almost nothing about this game that I admire or find good. I actually lost trust for Sonic Team and SEGA because of this game and my expectations for Frontiers are lower than ever. Never getting too hype again like I was for Forces again... I was more hype for this game than Mania, and seeing it fall flat on its face is just depressing...

[@cooper2211]

Thats why I can honestly say 06 is one of my favorite sonic games it may be a unfinished buggy mess but it has that soul and when the game isn't begging for death it is fun Forces was the most unengaging game I've played with literally no redeeming factors and what made me truly despise forces was when I legit laughed and was offended see tails scream for help to beat chaos 0 spread his cheeks with no hesitation. The only part that I liked about forces was episode shadow just for the remixed tracks from a guilty pleasure and infinite's I'M NOT WEAK line

[@BashyMcBash]

You lost me once you brought up ‘passion and ambition’

[@AllardRT]

@@BashyMcBash It's sad when saying the truth loses people.

[@monkeygod8241]

edge lord nigga had me rolling. great video bro.

[@xxdeathxx9836]

It is like comparing spiderman 3 to star wars the phantom menace. One movie is unintentionally funny while the other is just boring. feeling something is better than feeling nothing.

[@ZachaRicO]

If anything good came out of this, it was Sonic Team getting the message that the things they did throughout the 2010's wouldn't carry them anymore. They looked at everything they did in Forces that got lambasted, and proceeded to go the complete opposite route in Sonic Frontiers (except for the reused stage assets). The end result was a game that, while still polarizing, was still received much more warmly than its predecessor. And then two years later, we got Shadow Generations, which got near-universal acclaim. What a turnaround.

[@Zylo82]

I never had an issue with the gameplay of Sonic Forces.... What I did have an issue with is how SAFE the story was. You can clearly hear it from the Sound Track that it was trying to tell a different story, but the writters and especially Sega were to afraid to tell that story. The Sound Track is absolutely amazing. It just sucks that its tied to this Sonic game. I hated the story so much that I wrote my own AU fanfic. I put the story exactly where it needed to be. The Resistance. That's what the game should have been about.

[@EnzoZambrotti]

The difference between 06 and Forces is that 06 has the basis for a great game, bogged down by its development time, while the design for a great game is still there. Forces is bad because its design is a betreyal of the Boost Formula and boring, say what you will about 06, but the one thing the game didn’t falter in was its Level Design (And its OST of course)

[@cherribomb5422]

I love how you’re monotonously angry throughout this review. It’s refreshing to have someone not yell and still convey their frustration. Props to you, dude!

[@kimchikartoons5486]

I could listen to you talk about sonic for hours this went hella in depth and was funny af. I’m not even into Sonic stuff but you kept me hooked the whole way through I look forward to more stuff by you man

[@skinnie2838]

This is the same simp who goes on twitter and cries about Joe Rogan lmao. Imagine being subscribed to this soyboy unironically.

[@MangoFluids]

These 2 games make 1 thing clear: if a game is bad, blame the higher ups. Sonic forces couldn’t have been delayed. Hype built up from the 25th live event, and shareholders have demands. It was clear the team behind Forces had ambition, and (most of) the team gave all the effort they probably could in the time given. It wouldn’t have been a 10/10, but fans could have been quite pleased if the team was allowed the time for the best effort to be made.

[@gameman5804]

It COULD'VE been delayed. Despite Modern Sonic Fans being deprived of Modern Titles for 4 years, Sonic Team needed more time. And Unlike 2006, Sonic Forces wasn't a mess of ideas that contradict what Sonic was meant to be for the Adventure Style with a story so rancid in EVERY AREA, it's still the worst in the series. Sonic Mania should've been the 2017 game, and Forces should've been pushed to 2018 to lengthen the level design, tweak the controls, the works.

[@TheunknownuserM07]

@@gameman5804 "Sonic was meant to be for the Adventure Style" What does that even mean?

[@GamingPiratesTwitch]

⁠@@gameman5804story being rancid in every area Correction: Sonic’s story was bad, shadow’s story was actually pretty good and Silver’s story needed some more refinement

[@gameman5804]

@@GamingPiratesTwitch Silver’s story was just as bad because nothing about his arc gets explored, Silver himself is annoying as hell, and Blaze does Jack shit. I can’t even give Shadow’s Story that much since 06’s story gets retconned anyway. So no, there’s nothing good about this story at all.

[@eddieolivas4804]

Thank goodness Sonic Forces doesn't have super long and frequent loading screens. There's no way I'm ever playing the original '06 ever again.

[@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel]

As much as I hate 06, I changed my mind on something: 06, the game that at least tried to take Sonic to a new generation, but failed due to being rushed, is 100x better than Forces!

[@CapitalTeeth]

Sonic 06 at least tried its very best in doing what it attempted to. But Forces? It's so bland, so sterile, boring and meh that it doesn't even deserve to be in a top 10 list of worst sonic games. Basically, it's one of the Sonic games of all time.

[@sideways_chip_eater6420]

While Sonic 06 was bad they at least had excuses, the dev team splitting in half to make Secret Rings, time management to get the game done by Sonic's anniversary (which again, hard to do if your team is split in half) as well as the fact the creator just randomly decided to leave. Sonic Forces just....it has no excuse, there was no drama or problem behind closed doors, no rushing or anything, they hired a dev team that had no idea what the hell they were doing, writers who knew nothing about Sonic and only know about the lore just from looking at the wiki for like 30 minutes, infinite is about as well written as a roblox sonic roleplayer's oc and at this point Classic Sonic literally only exists to go "HEY HEY ITS HIM ITS HIM ITS THE SMALL BLUE BOY" Sonic Forces is singlehandedly the worst game i've honestly ever played in my entire life. And i used to play those stupid movie tie in games in the late 2000s.

[@TwilightFlower9]

I wouldn't say the creator leaving is random, I'd say it's probably because the development team got cut in half and the deadline moved closer and he wanted out of what was probably now a toxic work environment.

[@sonicmeerkat]

to this day i am baffled this story took 2 years to storyboard, because they sure as hell weren't boarding the level design with hiring 3 newbies and giving them a year. i genuinly think the leads committed fraud because jesus christ i don't care if they're saturday morning cartoon writers, i've seen less leaps in logic in fanfiction.

[@brotbrotsen1100]

What i really grew to dislike about the Franchise is how much 2d gameplay is present in the 3D games. You buy a 3D Mario and you get either fully 3D games or a few 2d sections in it, like in odeysee, the game is like 95% 3D gameplay though. Now Sonic is a game i Just got into with forces and that was one of the First things i noticed, i tried out the adventure games afterwards due to Hearing that they are great online and thought they were way better in every aspect, wondering why they didnt just stuck to this formula. I tried all the other games that recently released as well, colors wasnt really good tbh and mostly 2d again, generations was great and would be the perfect game if it was only the Sonic 3D sections for the entire game but half is 2d Classic Sonic and almost every level of modern sonics stage has like 40% 2d sections. Shadow gens from what i played so far does a better job when compared to sonics modern stages. Its a strange Franchise

[@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel]

One problem you missed when talking about Classic Sonic: He has a speed cap. A f*cking speed *C A P*

[@sideways_chip_eater6420]

good god he had a speed cap yet his controls were like if Windows Me's dead ghost inhabited my ps4 controller.

[@AdamWright-t7w]

There was also a speed cap in Sonic 1... the original Genesis version. Im just pointing that out

[@allgerfan]

He's always had a speed cap

[@GamingTopTen]

For me the main difference between Sonic 06 and Sonic Forces is that with Sonic 06 they cared but didn't have time, whereas for Sonic Forces they had time but they didn't care. If they *did* care when making Sonic Forces, it sure did not feel that way at all.

[@jobsidian4219]

1:12:36 I don't see the problem with that track. It does a good job of showing the avatar's feeling about this level.

[@Nic_2751]

I admitted defeat to this game after beating it the other week, what an absolutely disappointing experience and waste of potential and time, the most insulting platformer I’ve ever played.

[@traviscunningham7062]

Mario Odyssey is a much better game.

[@Nic_2751]

@@traviscunningham7062 honestly I would’ve laughed so hard in Forces face because of Odyssey exceeding expectations but now I just pity it.....

[@traviscunningham7062]

@@Nic_2751 what do you mean?

[@Nic_2751]

@@traviscunningham7062mainly in retrospect here, it was like a whole thing in 2017

[@IconPNG]

5:50 and 6:20. I don't agree with this point. Classic Sonic stories are light hearted and simple, but Modern Sonic stories are used to touch darker themes, SA, SA2, Shadow the Hedgehog and 06 (for what's worth), SATBK (Knuckles/Gawain almost suicides). Sonic games got more light hearted during the 2010's with Colors, Gens and Lost World, but it wasn't the norm.

[@TheSnowQueen_369]

You see, there was a somewhat sense of beauty in the 90's when it came to Sonic storytelling. You had the two TV shows, The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, which was very cartoony and abstract, and SatAM, which was dark and moody. Then you had the Classic Sonic games on the Sega Genesis, which were kind of like the perfect balance of the two, not too lighthearted, but not too dark and moody. So you had many different kinds of storytelling that you can choose from based on your taste. And looking back, they were all pretty well done, for the most part. I always gravitated towards AOSTH, but that's just me though. I know some who vastly prefer Sonic SatAM.

[@LupinticDream]

Forces being so boring is such a shame, because an "Eggman takes over the world" game was legitimately ripe with so much potential

[@derekg5006]

People give Colours and Generations flak for its goofy story and its humor, but I'd say I'm pretty ok with it because of the general audience, plots, and themes of those games, but with Forces, it seems like they wanted to do something different, something interesting, something more mature, but they couldn't even bother to have consistency with it. The characters, jokes, actions, plot, and more seem like it's fighting whether it wants to be a more childish and simple game like in Colours and onward, or if it were to have a serious plot and bigger stakes like the games before, resulting in it just being a boring waste. Sonic 06 is a dumpster fire, but atleast I can have fun watching content about it from far away. If Forces at the very least had a consistent more mature themes nothing else, I could atleast look at it without getting bored. That's the thing for me. 06 may be inferior objectively than Forces, but it's a million times more interesting to view than literally everything Forces has to offer

[@furious_taylor7719]

Absolutely agree I have a hopes for Ian Flynn with the sonic frontiers and all I can really say is if the story is bad it’s not Ian‘s fault most likely saga would force him to change it

[@CheddarVG]

Unlike Infinite, Mephiles was actually well-written.

[@URFTBOUND4LIFE]

No he wasn't. Once you look past the hammy overacting, his plan makes no sense. Why did he need Silver and Blaze to time travel on his behalf to kill Sonic on the off-chance that will make Elise cry? It's convoluted AF.

[@vexlang378]

@@URFTBOUND4LIFE yeah well infinite not any better

[@shardsoftime0952]

@@URFTBOUND4LIFE he likes to make everyone he can suffer

[@Michael_Afton40]

@@URFTBOUND4LIFE yes he was He actually had a purpose Infinite is just Eggman's pet for the entire game lol

[@gameman5804]

@@Michael_Afton40 Infinite is better. At least he's supposed to be a moron. Mephiles is supposed to be intelligent, but his plan is anything but that.

[@RaginDragn24]

Not many know or remember but there was a sonic forces prequel comic and it actually shows infinites motivation. Its stupid that a lot of the backstory for everything was in comics Also eggman first found the phantom ruby at his front door💀

[@kda9x]

metal virus saga is just forces story concept but just better

[@RaginDragn24]

@@kda9x for sure

[@rodrigonogueira9375]

Just realised this review is half the size of a sonic forces playthrough, just think about that for a second !

[@furious_taylor7719]

Yep because someone at Sonic team was all like hey let’s make a light Engine for three years instead of using this time to make a good game because visuals are the most important definitely not a long and fun game

[@justice8718]

@@furious_taylor7719 Shadow generations.

[@jayceallen6530]

Deadass the jump force storyline, main characters butchered to make the OC look good. A sonic game being compared to jump force is already a massive L

[@demonking3673]

Infinite literally tries to slam the sun on the Resistance all because Shadow called him worthless. Yeah, even ‘06’s kiss scene is more bearable than this gane.

[@BashyMcBash]

No. That is just a flat out lie. Sonic’s literal corpse was kissed by a human princess. I’m pretty sure that counts as necrobeastiality. No way in hell Elise kissing a dead animal is more bearable than a 6/10 game. Also, no, Infinite didn’t try to slam the sun on the Resistance because Shadow called him worthless. He did that because Eggman literally told him to.

[@demonking3673]

@@BashyMcBash Yeah, I think I was reaching with that take

[@retrofan4963]

@@BashyMcBash ok, the dead corpse? I understand. But the interspecies relationship? So if Roger Rabbit does it, it's fine, but when Sonic does it, it's apparantly not ok ?

[@NathAnarchy45]

The difference is Sonic 06 was just over ambitious and thought the Wii would be more powerful Whereas sonic forces was just bad and had no limitations yet was just bad

[@PalmtreeManic]

What does the Wii have to do with Sonic 06? They just dropped Nintendo export and continued with development once they found out it would be unfeasible.

[@Katakuna15]

@@PalmtreeManicWhen SEGA got the Wii development kits, they wanted 06 to be a Wii launch title but time constraints prevented them so.

[@TheSnowQueen_369]

I can understand ADDITIONAL story beats, you know, something that is supplemental to the main game like a bonus episode or story campaign that is OPTIONAL, being introduced in DLC, but not something that is integral to the main story's plot, like you said, Infinites' backstory and the rest of his fucking character.

[@sanicsanic6890]

i actually find 06 very visually appealing the art direction anyway

[@buttpiratesbuttpirate5913]

I agree the art is actually not bad. What's the problem is the meshes of art styles that just don't work. The cartoony style of Sonic and co., the realistic human characters and the fantasy inspired locations, it just needed to be stylized and all come together into a cohesion. Again a factor that the game had no time

[@sanicsanic6890]

@@buttpiratesbuttpirate5913 I was genuinely caught off guard that someone actually agrees with me cuz I thought a bunch of people would be sending the FBI after me lol

[@wooper2654]

1:04:45 You're saying that Hill Top zone that looks like Green Hill and Emerald Hill is more unique and interesting than the cool looking Metropolis city?

[@just_an_elli]

'06 does NOT belong in the same tier as Forces, Superstars, or Sonic 4

[@AdamWright-t7w]

Mega based... mostly. I think that Superstars is good

[@potateo7504]

Are you arguing Superstars is as bad as Sonic 4...?

[@AdamWright-t7w]

@@potateo7504 Yeah... I have just realized that. Anyways, Superstars is NOT on the same quality as games like 4 or Forces(imo)

[@potateo7504]

@@AdamWright-t7w Yeah, I agree because the game itself is largely fine, barring the bosses and Trip's story. But I'd still pick it over Forces, Sonic 4, and 06 any day.

[@AdamWright-t7w]

@@potateo7504 Agree

[@TheSnowQueen_369]

I am so glad that Sonic Frontiers is doing so good now, now that all of the DLC has been released. The game sold something like 3.5 million copies and is one of the best selling 3D Sonic games of all time! I personally haven't beaten it, and personally the gameplay doesn't interest me THAT much, but I can't deny the success this game has had. Now all Sega and Sonic Team need to do is take what worked in Sonic Frontiers, iron out all the kinks in it, and further flesh out the gameplay. Let's hope that they actually stick to this gameplay style and further improve upon it so the next game, and the game after, and the game after that, is better than before.

[@Kujaguy]

Well done on the breakdown. I agreed with you before you even started tbh lol

[@brb3222]

Sega: Shoot for the moon! Even if you miss, you'll land amongst the stars! Sonic 06: (downs 1.5 kilos of crack and coffee and then manically jumps into a canon stuffed with dynamite and fire crackers and ends up blasting at 1000mph straight into a brick wall built by SEGA that has "RELEASE BY CHRISTMAS" painted on it) Sonic Forces: (talks a leisurely walk for 3 years towards the moon only to panic when they see they aren't close enough in time and trips on shoe laces while trying to grab it from the ground... then gets up and makes dated quips at it)

[@Blecker3646]

For Sonic Forces, it's come to show about how SEGA really cares about the franchise. They practically think to themselves: "We want MONEY, we want it to be released on time, we don't care about our fans enough to fix these issues, and we don't care about our developers' concepts. We want a game out that looks finished enough so we can sell it. Then later we can maybe think about you." Just like many others, SEGA has fallen down this rabbithole. The rabbithole where corporations and companies end up going; a place where their greed cant buy them out. The rabbithole may give them all they ever want, but they cant get out to enjoy it. Otherwise, they lose everything they worked for. With the release of Frontiers' 3rd free DLC, it does come to attention that they are finally starting to figure this out. Not very fast like their own mascot could, but it's a head start. If they can keep this up, perhaps we will get something worthwhile soon.

[@michaeliv284]

Sonic 06 sounds like a promising athlete who got screwed over before he got a chance to prove himself. Forces sounds like one who manage to get his career with boasts that just seemed to work

[@sonicthehedge]

31:59 Pretty sure it only brought back because they copied the assets of Generations. So lazy and creatively bankrupt that they just reused the assets of generations because why not?

[@ryank2780]

Actually, the part where Classic Sonic comes through the portal to 'save' Tails is theorised to be the same Classic Sonic from Sonic Mania, when Mania Sonic travelled through the portal after defeating Robotnik and the Heavy King via the Phantom Ruby

[@EliRetroVHS642]

Though what I hate is Generations confirmed that Classic Sonic is Sonic from the past but the different universe is just a NO!

[@URFTBOUND4LIFE]

@@EliRetroVHS642 While I hate the redcon of the Classic/Modern Sonic universe, it does makes more sense to have it that way. Both classic and modern characters are the same age (Modern Sonic and Classic is confirmed to be 15) and it also explains why they look so drastically different from each other. Also it makes scene from a marketing perspective seeing how this game was released alongside with Mania. So if they wanted to, Sega could continue the classic style games with that Sonic instead of shoehorning Modern Sonic like with Sonic 4 and fans can have both styles of gameplay depending on the series like how Classic MegaMan and MegaMan X games were for Capcom during the 90s

[@EliRetroVHS642]

@@URFTBOUND4LIFE I'm sorry but no it doesn't, Generations states Classic Sonic is Modern Sonic from the past but if he's actually Sonic from a different demotion.. How did Sonic meet metal sonic? He knows him very well in Sonic heros and so does Amy and in Adventure 1 Sonic says (Knuckles did you let Eggman trick you again) implying he's tricked him before which leads back to Sonic 3 and knuckles. So NO! Classic Sonic being a different Sonic makes no sense they should be the SAME character just from past or future... Sega WHY!?

[@hy2dro90]

Classic Sonic suddenly appearing raises more questions. Why did the portal dropped Classic Sonic at the exact place and time that Tails needed saving? That is an amazing coincidence. It would have been more believable if Classic was dropped into a random battle or something.

[@ryank2780]

@@hy2dro90 the portal appearing right next to Tails to save him may have just been a coincidence, but the reason that Classic Sonic even managed to get into Forces was that the Phantom Ruby from Mania somehow linked to the Phantom Ruby in Forces.

[@Second_UNIT]

The way I equated it was that Forces was bad in an *offensive* way. 06 was bad because of factors outside of the developers control, on top of also being a trainwreck for other reasons that could also be attributed to the prior reason. The map design for forces is so shit it's basically well known, while 06 is known for having *fun* maps that are truly showcased properly in P-06. Out of the two, it's easy to say 06 is the "worse" game objectively, but I'd argue that would be a statement lacking in critical thinking. 06 has plenty of potential as a *game,* while Forces simply *doesn't* without some MASSIVE fucking overhauls. And yet, neither of these games are my least favorite title. In the end, both of these game's have a fucktonne of potential, 06 in P06 and a potential remake that could give hope to a maybe story-rework (yes im coping) and Forces having a phenomenal setting and *banger* main boss design that could have gone *so far* if Forces wasn't scared of actually addressing the darker setting seriously. Lost world has officially taken the trophy, for being so bland AND having a shit story that objectively is poorly executed. Colors takes my second place for literally being so boring I fell asleep trying to finish it and every level felt like a slog.

[@GUNUFofficial]

If one of your writers is telling you to go back to an older script and yet you ignore them, you're doing something wrong, this game feels like it's held together with duct tape and that duct tape is the automated level design, if it didn't have automation, this game would probably bug out a lot and be so so boring, it's interesting how they wanted to do a more cinematic presentation, but it doesn't feel earned at all, another thing is if eggman has been in charge for multiple months, where if everything? His insignia isn't plastered anywhere? It doesn't even look generically like he took over, the same city has been burning for MULTIPLE MONTHS!

[@sarahlockhart2180]

Whats worse is that they had an AMAZING blueprint already. If not the IDW Comics, its the Archie comics that already had Freedom Fighters. Of course, they couldnt rip it wholesale, but the blueprint of the freedom fighting group was already established. Just go off that. It just feels cheap that they didn't.

[@willowshake023]

I think that 99% of the people that were expecting a game with a darker tone dropped their expectations when they saw Classic Sonic appearing out of nowhere in the trailer and Sonic immediately losing the "serious" face. Perfect representation of how the game's story campaign begins

[@DylanEves]

I dont understand how people defend forces, it was 6 years after sonic generations, it arguably looked worse, it definitely handled worse, and honestly every game since has suffered, at least 06 tried to upgrade from the games before.

[@AdamWright-t7w]

06 is a bad game tho.

[@DylanEves]

@AdamWright-t7w sonic forces is also a bad game, and in my opinion it's a far worse game, sonic 06 had good design but was unfortunately let down by being rushed as fast as it was, the P06 mod shows how good the game could have been, meanwhile sonic forces is so flat with nothing to offer, it's a huge step back from the games before it and it is all around garbage

[@AdamWright-t7w]

@@DylanEves Yeah... I just disagree. I will always think that Forces is mediocre. No, I wont change my mind. However, I will respect your opinion. P-06 wouldnt exist without the actual 06. Just saying. However, p-06 could had been what the actual 06 was... if it was good. Well, there are many possibilities. I hope that you at least understand my stance on it, however.

[@AdamWright-t7w]

@@DylanEves Also... where are the Forces defenders??? Honestly, I feel like a broken record... (I can only see like... 1 to 3 actual defenders in this comments section. I definitely know that i didnt fully read every comment here. Tbh, i kinda dont care...)

[@DylanEves]

@AdamWright-t7w I think the issue is it's so hard to defend forces because it has little to no player interactivity, once you take that from the player it's very difficult to get any positive response. I can't believe that forces was the followup to generations, I can't believe this broken physics engine and levels with zero branching paths are what sega deemed good enough to release, honestly, without the movies success sonic forces could have been the game that killed the franchise, and it's what made me lose what little trust I had for sega. I think out of all their flops, nothing was as big a defeat as forces was, without the movies I think the franchise would be in a vastly different place. On top of that all I think I just hate sonic in forces, while he's got a good personality in 06. I'll never stop finding reasons to hate lol, respect your opinion, not trying to change your mind, I just have alot to say on this topic.

[@ZacharyDietze]

Sonic 06 at least *tried* to do something risky and was hoping that it could reinvent the gameplay formula a bit. Had it not been rushed then it might've even turned out mostly great, P-06 is proof of this. I don't think there will *ever* be a proper remake of making a better version of Sonic Forces without changing the story, overall scenarios, and gameplay loops entirely. It's just a much worse version of Sonic Generations and Colors smashed together without any of the more important elements that actually made them good. That's all this is.

[@AllardRT]

Sonic 06 can be fixed with polish. Fix the glitches, make the non-functioning mechanics actually work and tweak the physics to be decent and you've got a fantastic game on your hands. Project P-06 is a testament to that. Forces can only be fixed by scrapping it and starting over from scratch.

[@trevortuominen8233]

Ken Pontac, Warren Graff, and Morio Kishimoto are all to blame for Forces being, well, Forces (as well as the Meta Era in general): Pontac and Graff for their hopelessly low understanding of the characters, Kishimoto for his equally bad understanding of Sonic platforming, and Iizuka for his gross incompetence with leading Sonic Team in general. And don't forget Sega for all the bad decisions they made ever since Nintendo beat them in the console wars, proving time and time again that Nintendoes what Sega don't. Honestly the fact that Forces took four years to make and it still came out the way it did should tell us everything we need to know about how bad Sega, Sonic Team, and the Sonic games have become, and needless to say, doesn't give me any hope in Frontiers other than Ian Flynn's involvement.

[@hwanniggles187]

The fact no gameplay has been shown is already a red flag. Its releasing this year. My hopes are dim

[@URFTBOUND4LIFE]

And yet this video claims this game is worse than 06, the game that notoriously known for knocking Sonic off his pedestal as a promanint gaming icon along side with Mario and Link and gas been the but of every joke in gaming circles. Defending 06 at any capacity isn't helping the brand...

[@Genesis-XE]

Now that Frontiers is out and has had 3 updates, I wonder your thoughts lol

[@trevortuominen8233]

@@Genesis-XE Let's just say the part about me having no hope for Frontiers aged like the cheapest milk you find at the dollar store.

[@j7jov32]

Sega where really lucky they weren't in any particular rivalry with Nintendo in the Pontac and Graff era. Because the two Sonic games that came out the same year as Mario games in 2013-2017 would've had Nintendo giggling at them. 2013, Sonic had Lost World. Mario had Super Mario 3D World. 2017, Sonic had Forces, Mario had Super Mario Oddysey. And Nintendo also had Breath Of The Wild all the while released a new console.

[@shadowsofvalentia]

this isnt even about forces but the bgm choices for this video are amazing. megaten?! nier?! multiple tracks just from 13 sentinels?! isoleucine playing during the section about tails’ character regressing made me so happy it made that almost bearable … You have a video just on 13sar? i have got to watch this actually

[@ninjafrog6966]

let’s be real, 06 did have the potential to be a great game. the game had interesting ideas and clear ambitions for what they wanted the series to be. the thing that messed it up was the game being rushed out the door by sega. forces played things extremely safe and simple and had no real ambition beyond that and as a result is extremely boring, bland and has no identity of its own. 06 could’ve been a great game had it not been rushed and had its ideas and ambitions been fleshed out more. let’s stop seeing red with the game and pretend like it didn’t have potential to be a good game if it was just given more time in the oven

[@justice8718]

Forces doesn’t feel safe and simple. It feels choked and abused and blown up when it started.

[@galaxius179]

Project 06 proves this.

[@epicgamer48484]

Sonic 06 is a bad game, while Sonic Forces is not a good game. They both tried to be good games and where one failed to be a (functional) game, the other failed to accomplish anything. But with bad games at least there is still stuff to be gained from them such as knowledge that'll be used to hopefully not reach a similar low again, or it can be fixed up like project 06 to actually be polished, or you could just simply make fun of it for laughs and entertainment. However, there just isn't much else but nothing to be gained from, well, nothing, and that is Sonic Forces.

[@radudumitru3306]

classic was never meant to be mute, he was made that way in gens because the writers didn't even hear the "i'm outta here " line or the "yes" when he gets a 1up in CD

[@BigBoss64MV]

I could never take a serious story with roger craig as sonic he just too goofy tho hes great in sonic boom, also knuckles and shadow also dont sound right

[@Michael_Afton40]

What do you think of Roger's voice in Frontiers?

[@zeroxenoverse9251]

Well we got Frontiers in recent times now that Ian is doing the writing.

[@artyom2801]

That development is still less disastrous than Overkill's the Walking dead. Imagine being given a non-functioning engine (Valhalla) trying to make anything and pleading your CEO to buy the Unreal license for years until finally caving in at the last year and then looking up Unreal tutorials to get something out of the door. Oh and said CEO then calls you lazy by going "It's my fault for not realizing lazyness is the new work culture".

[@MetalMarioandfriends]

Sega overhyped this game so much what they delivered is 110% not what they Advertised

[@Nighterac]

I can't believe there are people who unironically LIKE Forces. Some people think it's somehow better than SA1 and Generations or even has it as their favorite Sonic game which is INSANE. Good lord, please get some standards. FORCES of all games is not the hill you should die on, people.

[@AdamWright-t7w]

???

[@aidenliveandreloaded2522]

"Welcome to the salty sptoon. How tough are ya?" Me: How tough am I? I beat Sonic Story in retail 06 "So" Me: Without the purple gem "Understand right this way"

[@XxXQuickScoperXxXJoinTheParty]

What does the purple gem do? I don't think I made use of any of them because I just didn't understand how to activate them at first.

[@Moleoflands]

It was meant to just make you shrink. But you could infinity jump with whilst active. And because you had infinite energy as Sonic because 06, you could bypass whole levels

[@justaregularpepsi]

I like Sonic 06 because it feels like the last of tge serious story line Adventure started...everything after just doesn't feel cannon.

[@Sybry605]

HOW IS THIS A HOT TAKE!?

[@bennascar2856]

The fact that Forces was likely made in only a year makes me think about the teaser cinematic they first showed off for the game, and the fact that was the only piece of info anyone had for it until SXSW the next year. You can compare this to what happened with Frontiers, but I think Frontiers very, very, VERY slow reveal of actual gameplay was less to do with not having enough to show, and more so Sega and Sonic Team feeling extremely anxious and lacking in confidence for Frontiers, since we know thanks to leaks that gameplay did exist for a while. I genuinely think that when Forces was first revealed, there was no game at all. And considering many sources point to the fact that Sunset Heights was the first level designed for the game (and was one big long level split into 3), that showing off Sunset Heights as the first piece of gameplay and so briefly wasn't just meant to be a small teaser. It was literally all they really had to show.

[@infy723]

Nah, the writers of lost world wrote the script. This game had potential and it still does. Infinite at least. Think about it, he’s actually a decent character despite the poor writing. He has the potential, and many think the same. I hope he makes a return since he’s canonically not dead. There is a very high chance he will make a return in frontiers due to the evidence and clues Sega gave us in the trailers. I believe Infinite will once more be in control of his true self and he may become an ally. Something that is eerily similar to the ruby affected the girl in the trailer. It would make sense if Infinite was an aid to us somehow perhaps. He’s a character who deserves another shot. Many loved and adored him.

[@mult1versal]

30:35 not to defend forces here, but the ppl who worked on forces aren't the same ppl who worked on OG trilogy, mania, or even Generations/Colors. Like I get it, they have all this stuff to learn off of, but they technically aren't "regressing" when there isn't anything they made prior

[@Stevewebstermusic]

I was so goddamn excited for sonic forces and I was FLOORED when there was no online functionality whatsoever. How TF did they make a sonic game where you can create your own character and NOT LET US PLAY ONLINE AND SHOW OFF OUR CREATIONS TOGETHER? You know… the exact thing the fanbase has been doing since the 90s 🤦

[@robertlauncher]

I don’t even get why they needed to update the graphics engine. Nobody was complaining about the visuals in Generations

[@chordsofsteel-i4j]

I APPRICIATE THE ACE ATTORNEY SPIRIT OF JUSTICE MUSIC!

[@AdonAdaniel]

In Fullmetal Alchemist (both the manga and Brotherhood) the main villain, Father, AKA Homunculus, had successfully managed to achieve his goal of becoming god. To demonstrate his unlimited power, he created a small sun in the palm of his hand while coldly stating that he indeed can do that before asking the six people in front of him if he shall expend it. Is this what you meant?

[@CheeseBlaster]

I legitimately think that 06 would've been beloved maybe as much as the Adventure games if it weren't for the abundance of technical issues (aside from the ending scene where a human being kisses cartoon hedgehog on the lips but what can ya do). Forces... didn't even try imo

[@thereel1_real]

Conceptually, it’s dark. It’s still irrelevant to the final game’s quality.

[@Bobb11881]

I'd certainly like it if Classic Sonic wasn't there, or better yet if Generations never invented him in the first place, but I'd certainly accept him talking. There's no reason for him _not_ to talk. Sonic talked in Sonic CD. He talked in all the 90s cartoons where he looked like Classic Sonic. Classic Tails even talks in Generations. The only reason Classic Sonic doesn't talk is because they want him to be cute presumably to appeal to little kids. He was never supposed to be that. Back in the 90s, he was designed to be cool to appeal to teens. Look at the Sonic Mania intro or any of the Origins animations and compare them to the Sonic CD intro. There's a clear difference in tone and in how Sonic is supposed to be perceived. For lack of a better comparison, they took a character who was always supposed to be like American Kirby and turned him into Japanese Kirby. Alternatively you could look at Classic Sonic as Sonic's shitty baby spinoff that cartoons love to do.

[@OldIron1923]

NGL I’d love to see a remaster (and a remake of a forces that doesn’t suck)

[@MasterAlpha1000]

Nah, this game is geared to what the media was demanding from SEGA since 2008 lmao

[@OwOIord]

The issue here is there's nothing to work with

[@thegoatcarnival]

What's crazy is this story was immediately followed by the IDW comics, and those can get _really_ dark, especially when they call back to the events of Sonic Forces. The fate of the Diamond Cutters is 10x darker than Forces was _trying_ to be.

[@miniaturejayhawk8702]

I just realized that infinites soundtrack is a remix of the soundtrack that played when sonic and shadow first met.

[@justice8718]

He is Eggman’s Shadow. Eggman’s Anakin Skywalker. Eggman’s little Darth Vader.

[@danilp9522]

10:25 You may be talking about Freezas Supernova destroying Planet Vegeta and wiping out the Saiyan-Race in Dragonball Z, with the ‚resistance‘ being Gokus father Bardock.

[@artistanthony1007]

I would literally play 06 on my PS3 anyday, I've never played Forces but 06 still is better especially its script and I legit go back to watch cutscenes, they still are great.