What is TRUE MODESTY? | Modesty Like You've Never Heard It.

[@abigailtodd7114]

Best conversation on modesty I’ve ever heard!! “Veil that because it’s so holy”🤯 Whaaaaa!!

[@FrankD23]

@abigailtodd7114 It should stay veiled.. As far as i'm concerned, sex an occasion for sins like lust.

[@creamdelacreme]

This was such a beautiful way to explain modesty by two men. I was truly touched

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're so glad it was helpful!

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

This is how I'm going to be teaching my kids about modesty. My mom was a pretty legalistic, manicheistic Christian when I was young in the 2000s (she's grown a LOT since then), and though she never specifically stated that private parts were dirty, it was in her face and in the way she taught us modesty. Private parts were _inappropriate,_ and sex was taboo and never ever talked about, like it was dirty. Because of that, I sought answers for my curiosity about sex and bodies from the internet -- and that went exactly how you might imagine. I WISH I had been taught that our entire body -- including and _especially_ our sexual organs -- is holy and beautiful, and every _function_ of every part of our body is _good_ and not dirty, when used within its divine parameters. Thank you so much for putting this teaching online for free! It's helping young Christians like me figure out how to raise our future kids right.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

That's awesome @milo_thatch_incarnate ! Thank you for sharing your story of redemption. Keep going deeper into the Theology of the Body.

[@starstoryteller]

C.S. Lewis talks about how modesty is like charity. When you dress modestly you make people feel comfortable.

[@OLGrace]

This makes me reflect that this is also why "the veil" hasn't been lifted for us to see the spiritual, angelic and heavenly world. Because it's is so wonderfully holy and pure that we are not ready to see it.

[@JacquelineHinshaw]

This also made me reflect on why holy saints are graced with glimpses of the heavenly!

[@kindredspiritt]

[@barbaramoore6111]

The action of his wife giving the immodest woman her scarf is priceless.

[@mvose2085]

OH MY GOSH HE SAID THE THING!! An “immodest” woman is not to blame for the lust in a man’s heart. To this day, us men are still trying to blame Eve for our sins.

[@joechriste7052]

God, cleanse and heal us from lust and help us to look upon Your daughters with pure and holy intentions, and help us to see the beautiful person that You have created.

[@yeshuadvargas5552]

While it is true that she's not "responsible" for man's lust, she is using her influence for evil. A chaste man can resist lusting for her, but the fact that she's testing him is a sin. Therefore, when a man lusts for an immodestly dressed woman, they both sin.

[@ijustwantataco8855]

What about “never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.” If a women is showing skin (ie. torso, shoulders, or chest) even without the intention of self aggrandizement, is it wrong to ask our Christian sisters to cover up?

[@tpb2665]

Someone once said make your first look count. It’s the second one that gets you in trouble. Nothing wrong with appreciating beautiful creation. Just know it’s not yours. The second look means thinking of the other person’s attractiveness for yourself. I hear it takes time and a lot of hard work to be able to run from this. I have other struggles. I don’t really understand. I’m just saying what Pastor Larry Osborne said twenty years ago that I thought would help you. Ultimately it’s “create in ME a clean heart oh God and Renee a right spirit in ME. In my life my attitude needs to be my own relationship with God. Going over an examination of conscience every week before church helps me give grace to others. I started doing this and other things to develop virtue specifically to grow and help myself change. It might be better to pray the women be convicted by the Holy Spirit, or through another woman. I don’t want your heart to be misunderstood. Telling the truth to people is sometimes too direct. We want to point people to their own growth with trusting God. Take care and realize it takes time to work on anything. His grace is sufficient!

[@tpb2665]

“Renew”, not “Renée”

[@bianca-ic8yw]

This conversation was brilliant! I'm a 21 year old woman and i hope to get married and start my own family soon, although i'm scared of what the world will do to my children. I hope this video reaches many young women and helps the next generation grow up with a healthy mindset.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for the positive comment @bianca-ic8yw ! We're praying for you. If you'd like to take a deep dive you might want to check the whole playlist of the series here: kzbin.info/aero/PLAbqXQaOvkM4UxMiREWkgYmY-PHTEnRtn

[@bianca-ic8yw]

@@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute thank you!

[@rosie0990]

Modesty in the broad sense concerns much more than how we dress or appear in public. Every aspect of how we carry ourselves is regulated by modesty. Modest persons do not seek to be the center of attention or exalt themselves, but rather they carry themselves with a quiet dignity.

[@francikoen]

True. Too many Catholics hyper-fixate the virtue of modesty at women.... while they ignore men's immodest speech and men's immodest lack of custody of their eyes.

[@JoAnnFuir]

Yes. Humble people are usually modest as well. They don't want to draw attention to themselves.

[@robmate]

Wow I have never heard modesty and lust discussed with such precison but also so heartfelt. This was eye opening, thankyou brothers

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're so glad it was helpful @robmate !

[@williamscott3123]

“A veiling of the glory…” I love that.

[@minispiel19]

Reading Marian prophecies about immodesty had gotten me wondering about true modesty. In this culture, we really don’t know how to dress. This is helpful for discerning!

[@evam2311]

Fathers are also responsible to teach their daughters what modesty is and explain to them their body is holy, also mothers are our greatest role models for modesty❤

[@francikoen]

Catholics hyper-fixate the virtue of modesty at women...while they silently approve *men's immodest lack of custody of their eyes and men's immodest speech.*

[@adk5997]

And to sons??? Do they teach them to ‘get girls’ though??????

[@kkurova9345]

Mothers can teach too...

[@megmcguireme]

If my father told me how to dress I wouldn't listen. I learned modesty from my mother. And my father is an example of how to treat women.

[@tesskelly6647]

So, if I'm to follow Christopher West's reading of JP II's Theology of the Body, how "veiled" must a woman be in church in order to protect the sacredness of her body? And yet again, the woman is asked to sacrifice her own comfort for men............... Matt Fraad also talks about "correcting" women in what they're wearing. What if I think I'm dressed modestly, but someone seeks to "correct" me on my outfit? A very good friend said to me: "Putting all the burden on women to cover up is the easy route out. How about men be more accountable in safeguarding their own purity, and in striving for greater chastity?"

[@slv6682]

Christopher West has another amazing video about that very topic! In which he holds men accountable for their own chastity as well...kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5PKp6l7opaFpc0 I'll try to see if he has other videos beside this one as well.

[@issemayhem]

"Putting all the burden on women to cover up is the easy route out. How about men be more accountable in safeguarding their own purity, and in striving for greater chastity?" How about both?

[@tesskelly6647]

@@issemayhem yes, that's literally what that means

[@slv6682]

@@issemayhem That is what Christophe West is saying, and what he has said in multiple videos on the Theology of the Body Channel.

[@robynbeach3198]

Both of them were talking about the accountability of men, and putting women's accountability as secondary as it should be. Both agreed that the man feeling lust is not the appropriate person to correct her. This was a beautiful and respectful talk that honored women greatly. What's your issue with this? If I'm the person carrying the treasure do I have no duty whatsoever to protect it, just because robbers have a duty not to steal?

[@InExcelsisDeo24]

This is a great interview. I was at mass last week and a young lady was reading at the lectern. It was a warm day and she wore an extremely inappropriate outfit for the context (and honestly, I believe any context) - a mid dress with the back revealing completely. I was very surprised that the priest hadn’t said something to her before mass. She was a beautiful and sincere young person but the lack of awareness was very surprising to me. I see so many young ladies who are so beautiful and innocent, out and about with midriffs and most of their legs and rears revealed and it makes me sad. They are giving everything of their private selves to everyone and anyone passing. They deserve better. I am a woman, by the way.

[@calebhill9191]

I really do appreciate this comment, and also the way that these guys talk about it! A naive woman isn’t at fault and won’t be condemned by a man’s personal sin of lust, but maybe she does have a responsibility to veil her glory, would you agree? I once had the amazing opportunity to have a truly open conversation about this with a lady (I’m a man). She invited me to talk about the different practical things that men are often tempted by, and it was just such an amazing blessing for both of us to be in an honest conversation, trying to see through battle from both gender’s perspectives. A woman should never be blamed for a man’s sins, but she can help to preserve her own holiness!

[@debrakeogh]

There is a really good book called 'Dressing with Dignity' by Colleen Hammond. It completely changed my perspective on how I dressed as a woman so much so that I changed all my clothes, out went the trousers and in came the skirts and dresses! Nothing above the knee and chest and shoulders covered. For mass elbows covered as well and wearing a veil.

[@Laurelin70]

​@@debrakeoghWhy trousers would be "non dignified"?

[@SufferingWell-dtwakr]

I would like to hear that conversation.​@@calebhill9191 Men assume that women know what gets men going. You just can't assume that and I appreciate that it sounds like you didn't. Many of us want to know, and we don't seem to be able to find a person or place that will tell us that. So we just go around being blamed. I try very hard to be modest. But I feel condemned quite often. I grew up in a very strict Protestant environment and when I was married, my ex-husband (divorced him when I was Protestant and I am single now) got angry at me for everything that I wore, including a jumper that was practically a burlap bag. I kept trying to find something that he would consider modest but was never successful. Just going out in public makes me feel guilty. No matter what I wear.. I'm 63, fat, there is nothing attractive about me. But I'm still so afraid to be accused of being immodest. People around here are throwing around the phrase that women are their brother's keeper.... But we often don't understand what we need to do to help them. And often, the things we're told are practically impossible. Short of wearing a burqa.

[@fantasticfamily5004]

The best thing to do I’ve personally found being a woman myself I asked them with their touring jeans midriff showing. Is this an appropriate dress for you to come to a wedding? Their answers usually no I remind them that that’s what the holy mass is a wedding where we remember our Lord in the consecration of the mass. An essence a wedding for us we are joined with our Lord I also asked him is that clothing you would want your friends to show up for your wedding And again their answer is no So I ask him again is this appropriate address for you to come to church? By that time, the point is made. I also asked him if they need help purchasing clothing or helping them Put together an outfit for Sunday, which is more appropriate and fitting for them Again by that time, the messages gotten across. The next Sunday I see them very appropriately dressed. Radiant is beautiful as they are. I told him what you wear, reflects exactly of who you are and represent yourself in public Always treat yourself with respect. No matter what the other person says or thinks

[@thedarkdane7]

Some constructive criticism: it would be good to include discussion of how men can dress immodestly too. Too often this conversation is aimed entirely at women dressing modestly with the idea that women are never tempted to lust after men. Still, I think this is an excellent conversation! I just think it needed to be expanded a little bit.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for the feedback! We've received multiple comments about that so we're working on a video about it. God bless!

[@francikoen]

It was NOT an excellent conversation because it ignored male modesty.... especially common and frequent male immodest speech and male immodest custody of their eyes. This video was just a bitch-fest at women.

[@truecatholic1]

@@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute Mary like modesty standard for women. For men anything less than shorts that come to the knees and a T-shirt to the elbows is immodest.

[@dorcasmofosi3247]

I'm with you on this one

[@rekindlefitness]

This is a superb way to explain modesty, I'm looking forward to using it with our kids when they're older. In the meantime, I'll start applying it in my own life. Thank you for this great video 🙏

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

You're so welcome @rekindlefitness ! Christopher always says that we must first inject the Theology of the Body into our own bloodstream before passing it on to others. We're excited for your journey.

[@mement0_m0ri]

As an Orthodox Christian, I have always been told that they reason we cover our hair in church and hide our beauty, is to veil our glory. I was surprised how lost this idea has become in the west. I'm glad to hear that some western Christians still understand this, though.

[@bgbbff]

I have been praying deeply for an answer / understanding on this topic for a couple of months now. I’m so happy this video came out

[@servornon]

Me too! I'm not sure what to take away from this though. The onus is more on the man, this I can agree with because Jesus only calls out the man in Matthew 5. But what responsibility does the woman have, especially when men can lust after even a modest woman? They say veil what is holy, but what does that equal? The Church and the saints like Padre Pio advocate for loose clothing to the knee and elbow and within 2 inches of the neckline. There is really no other concrete guidance of this. But if you try and argue this to a woman, they reject it with prejudice.

[@bgbbff]

@@servornon I think the key point you took away is consistent with mine. However, The podcast host makes a clear distinction The same person can wear 2 sets of clothing and depending if the heart is modest or in-modesty (entice lust) But the onus is on the man Chaste man / Integrated Man - Can / Will still give her, her dignity - We have an obligation to see her rightly

[@bgbbff]

@@servornon All we can do is share perspective with the opposite sex I took these notes from the video Immodesty in dress is what displaces the value of the person Sexual Values can subtract from the person Because you want to be valued properly Aid the integration with the person You as a person won’t be seen as a person *When talking to ourselves or admiring beauty* Lust is a distortion of what’s good - beauty of the creature, praise god and raise the credit to the creator / heavens

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're so glad it was helpful!

[@SufferingWell-dtwakr]

I'm unclear what he means when he says, "... a point of origin for love." I'm on my fourth time listening to this video. It's so beautiful and in my heart I know that he's right, but I don't really know what it all means. I hope you guys will do more discussing and defining.

[@MonasticMom]

Phenomenal conversation…. I greatly appreciate the scarf story which is an awesome example of charity.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for watching!

[@catherinecomeau8150]

Thank you for this great teaching on modesty! I'd never heard anybody talk about this subject in such a beautiful way 🙂

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're so glad it was helpful!

[@acn82F]

First time in this channel, loved so much the content of this video! I am grateful!

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

That's awesome! Welcome aboard. If you'd like to take a deep dive consider checking out www.tobforfree.com/

[@jonahhahr7756]

Archbishop Fulton Sheen said the first sign of the demonic is a love of nudity. The body is good, but we need to be cautious. It isn’t just the world out there that is fallen. We too, though members of the mystical body of Christ, are fallen. Certain folks seem way too excited about talking about this stuff. IMO

[@mvose2085]

Excited to have conversations about a fruit of the Holy Spirit. This conversation about modesty is much better than the one I heard in Faith Formation classes.

[@FrankD23]

@@jonahhahr7756 Finally someone with common sense..

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for the honest comment @jonahhahr7756 ! Christopher has committed his life to understanding and sharing John Paul II's Theology of the Body. The TOB is a theological work that provides answers to the deepest questions of the human heart; ultimately on what it means to be human. We'd say nudity is a minimal part of it but we hope that occasionally addressing the topic would bring people to the Pope's teaching.

[@oliviamadera2256]

I really appreciated this discussion! However, something I am disappointed by time and time again is the lack of acknowledgement for male modesty as well. A woman very well may feel attraction to the man sitting ahead of her in the church. Comparing it to the redhead flipping her hair as she stood, a man could stretch as he stands and unintentionally show his muscles and distract the woman from the mass/prayer. Why is this other perspective rarely addressed?

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank your for your comment @oliviamadera2256 ! We've had a handful of comments like yours so we're already working on a video about the topic.

[@oliviamadera2256]

@@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute Thank you for your reply! This video just now was the first I saw from your channel. Looking forward to watching more! 😊

[@softlifesarah]

This was so healing thank you

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Glad it was helpful! You can watch the whole series here: kzbin.info/aero/PLAbqXQaOvkM4UxMiREWkgYmY-PHTEnRtn

[@eszternagy-lukacs878]

Beautifully said. Thank you.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for watching! If you'd like to go deeper you can watch the whole series here: kzbin.info/aero/PLAbqXQaOvkM4UxMiREWkgYmY-PHTEnRtn

[@MiniLinlin]

I've never understood why some people think that if someone chooses modesty it's because they've been shamed into it or something. I've never felt like the body is necessarily shameful. I still love privacy, modesty, etc.

[@milkeywilkie]

This video is really encouraging, there’s so much discourse about modesty among catholic circles that is both wrong and unhelpful and what y’all are saying is so true and so helpful!

[@juanflorenciogonzalezmateo9803]

This is so beautiful! I almost cry... No, not beautiful, but doubly beautiful!

[@mvose2085]

I totally get it! Buy and read “Theology of the Body Explained: A Commentary on John Paul II's ‘Gospel of the Body"’ by Christopher West. When I read this book I wept for my wife and I how I missed treated her when we dated.

[@FrankD23]

@juanflorenciogonzalezmateo9803 It was sickening.. How dare they compare the holy eucharist to sex. They are complete opposites. Sex is a doorway to sin a lust.. The eucharist Is a doorway to sanctity and holiness.

[@juanflorenciogonzalezmateo9803]

@@FrankD23 I understand that they see an analogy there. All creatures manifest the glory of God, and some more than others (although not all see it, nor with the same clarity). The Holy Eucharist is absolutely the greatest manifestation of the glory of God in this world (though even fewer people can see it, and among those who can, for some it is clearer than for others). Do you think that "sex", as a biological structure, is a disordered entity and, as such, is necessarily the source of disordered actions? (think about our Lord Jesus: was Him a sexed being?).

[@catherinebracy4332]

@@FrankD23 Sex is also, when used in traditional sense, the ultimate sign of unity between Christ and His Church. Are you calling the very act by which you came to be a sin? Also, even within the Bible can be found praises of natural sexuality. Have you never read the Songs of Solomon?

[@belaad]

I know, me too ❤

[@mariekatherine5238]

I wear a veil or hat plus nice dress or skirt for Mass. For hanging out at home, doing housework, I wear a slightly worn dress or skirt, sneakers, maybe a bandana or hat to keep dirt out of my hair. At the beach or pool I wear a swim dress in the water and a long sleeved and length cover-up. In the shower or bath, I wear my birthday suit. Not a slut, not a prude.

[@alieluva1758]

Where did you get our swim dress?

[@raeannaroylance5401]

We are not our brother’s keeper. Cain asked that patronizing question mocking his brother, Abel’s, occupation being a keeper of sheep. His impertinent tone implied that he was irreverently asking if he were his brother’s “babysitter”. God never answered Cain’s question either. We are not our brother’s “keeper”, but we are our brother’s brother. We are equal in station to each other, intent on each other’s well-being because we love each other.

[@Thumpa30]

Thank you for this clip very much needed especially that last quote from Saint Augustine🙏🏾😮‍💨

[@Fluffers-n2h]

Fascinating that Mr West can remember a beautiful redhead at the basilica from 25 years ago. I read a book some years ago that really bothered me called For Women Only by Shaunti Feldman. This is where I learned that men are constantly not only looking at, scanning, categorizing, judging women everywhere all the time, they hold these images in their minds forever. And the ones who either don’t know or who aren’t haste, will pull these images up like a photo Rolodex. Makes you think differently about husbands and what they’re thinking of even during conjugal relations. I feel sorry for you all…the constant temptation and struggle, even apparently into old age is awful. I can’t relate to this at all being a woman of grandmotherly age…but we women young or old are also affected by the problems of men also.

[@JackieRoseMarie]

And women tend to be very judgemental and fall into gossip and calumny easily and often. Poor men dealing with us women. We all need to take the plank out of our own eye.

[@francikoen]

@@JackieRoseMarie Christians continually gripe about women.... while they exonerate men. Take the PLANK out of your own eye and stop falsely accusing women you never met of gossip and calumny. YOU committed gossip and calumny. You're projecting!

[@ekatrinya]

This brings an even deeper insight to the evils of mutilation through gender surgeries.

[@DavidTheHust]

This is a great addition since they didn’t deal with the issue of fraternal correction.

[@yvetteestevez8660]

This video found me at the right time. Just last night I went to bed feeling overwhelmed. I’m in search for my wedding dress and it’s actually very hard for me simply because there’s so many options but ultimately I find myself disappointed to find the modest dresses are more expensive than the immodest dresses. (Mainly the neckline) every bridal shop I step into the necklines are beyond immodest &at one store it was even suggested to me to instead go for a hanging sleeve than to cover up.. (inside I hated that suggestion) I look at other cultures and their brides are fully covered up, but in American culture immodesty is the common look for brides. Sadly all my life I’ve seen and felt lust looks by men, as a young girl, as a teen and as adult. I’ve hear their comments and know why they like to look. (I know the difference between these kind of men than men who love god) I grew up with brothers I never dressed immodest in our home simply because I respect that they are men. In my culture we do the (dollar dance) at the wedding reception & I will dance with so many of the male guest i don’t mind dancing with them I actually think it’ll be fun but I can’t bring myself to be in any way exposed for the sake of a common wedding dress. And I hate that I am beating myself up because I feel this way. I would love nothing more that to enter my Gods church in full modest. I will love nothing more than to feel comfortable while I hug my fiancés father and grandfather. I’m going to adoration later to vent this to God and give it to him. Thank you guys for the video 🙏

[@janem3378]

If you can find a store for orthodox jewish women you may have better success with your dress shopping. Good luck with your search.

[@JG-blue]

I went to a regular secular wedding dress shop - look for 50s style dresses (think Audrey Hepburn) which are usually tea length, and ask them if you can add a skirt from a different dress if you want floor length. This is what I did! It has cap sleeves (I wore a jacket for the ceremony itself), had a full back, and was not low cut at all. Loved it.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for such an honest and vulnerable comment @yvetteestevez8660 ! We will pray that you find the perfect wedding dress and for your future marriage!

[@serena6276]

I am the same, I struggled so much as so many dresses have full bodice cut outs and sheer parts in them. I didn't feel comfortable in any of the dresses I tried on in the bridal store. I am blessed to be able to sew so my mum and I are making my wedding dress, it has actually been a blessing as it has brought my mum and I closer x I hope you have a lovely wedding!

[@ChrisMartin-vl1uy]

Congratulations, I wish you the best in your future marriage.

[@FullDottle]

Wow: "The lust is NOT over there, the lust is here (points to own heart)". That right there gents.

[@janetadkins5004]

Just look at how Our Lady is dressed, to this very day, in her apparitions.

[@JoAnnFuir]

Excellent point! Mary exemplifies modesty. All woman should look to Mary as a feminine role model. Humility goes hand in hand with modesty I think.

[@millriverfarm]

Very interesting conversation

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for watching! Please pray for us.

[@jdub3999]

These are important videos and I appreciate the discussion this inspires both in my heart and with other men.

[@MissSways.]

“We veil what demands the reverence” (i.e. The Eucharist) 🙏✝️🙏 Anything that is holy, sacred and good deserves to be veiled.

[@Joe-b3b4v]

Theology is both speculative and practical. There are moral principles, and there are concrete applications of those principles. There is an objectively right or wrong way to dress. What is that way? We seem to be beating around the bush by just talking about what modesty is and what it is not. The fact is, yes, it is in the heart, but we are not Protestants. We are Catholic. There is a right or wrong way to manifest that modesty externally, including our choice of clothing. The question remains: Is it sufficient to make sure we dress according to common customs acceptable in our culture, avoiding doing what is abnormal, or is modesty so lost that we need to revive older customs from a century ago?

[@mvose2085]

Go deeper.

[@dansedevie123]

Why the dress of a century ago, specifically, over all the other time periods?

[@Joe-b3b4v]

@@dansedevie123 I am just emphasizing we need some objective answer. Many Catholics revert to the standards of the early 1900s, so that is why I picked that for an example.

[@Joe-b3b4v]

@@mvose2085 What do you mean?

[@mvose2085]

Us Catholics need to take a good look at the scriptures and the catechism. But not stop at the surface of the text. St JPII did this with his TOB work. I would say that God gave us that work right before the chaos we are in now. God wants us to understand His teaching on sexuality in a much deeper way. If the Church continues to ignore the invitation to move deeper than the surface of black and white then we will never win the culture. Also, it’s not Catholic to reduce the interior part of man to something Protestant. The beatitudes and the sermon on the mount are all about the heart of man. Again, my friend dans needs to go deeper.

[@newcreationbiblechurchftw]

In 2 Timothy they also talk about modest clothing not being excessive and lavish: 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.

[@RealSeanithan]

There is very little that I find more frustrating than people taking shorthand phrases that LITERALLY EVERYONE knows what they mean and calling them incorrect when the implied (and well-known) meaning of the phrase is not at all incorrect. There has not been a single person on the planet who, when a person knocked on the door and asked if they were decent, thought, "Oh no! He asked if I was decent! He must think I may not be being decent! Oh, if only he had said, 'Are you covered in such a way that your covering would be decent in my company and/or would it be decent of me to come in given your current state of dress?' No! He thinks that I and my body are of themselves indecent!"

[@eco7221]

If I get you right you are criticising the critique of the phrase as too literal minded. But imho this wasn't the centre of the criticism. It was a discussion of the literal sense of the phrase that evidently we all understand to point out where language is shaping our relationships in subconscious ways. It matters how he speak with one another, or else we could just make grunting noises! I have always objected to the phrase even though I understand it perfectly well!

[@lulumck7545]

This helped me so much thank you.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're so glad it blessed you! Please pray for us.

[@PMacKing]

Beautiful discussion.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for watching!

[@jonahhahr7756]

In truth the Eucharist is always veiled, bc it retains the appearances of bread and wine.

[@forehead949]

Great point.

[@jatnarivas8741]

It shall be unveiled in the next life. But also the veil of the body of Jesus was torn in the cross.

[@jonahhahr7756]

@@jatnarivas8741 yes in the next life. That’s what I think isn’t always appreciated here. We have to treat ourselves and each other as fallen in this life. One mortal sin isn’t worth all the “meaningful appreciation” of some esoteric reality about our bodies. IMO

[@brianmurphy9570]

~3:50 JPIIs point is spot on, but the example used here is not. He is splitting hairs over a literalistic interpretation of a common saying. Most people who say they are indecent aren't literally talking about their body, but the context in which they could be subjected. "I am indecent" is a colloquial way of saying "I don't want to, or I should not, unveil myself to you." The problem isn't with the saying, it is with the person's conception of why they are saying it; you can't tell what that is one way or another from the saying itself.

[@SethNoorzad]

I 100% agree that it is the man's responsibility to learn to guard his eyes and heart. I also think that the pervasive dress standards of women that draw inordinate attention to their physical beauty trains and conditions men to "consume" what is being offered, so to speak. As a man, you must not only train yourself to guard your gaze, but to do so you must go against the implicit message that you are being told every day by what you see on display. The society "teaches" you one set of values and you must teach yourself the opposite. If you do not grow up with parents who value and teach chastity, it will take a man many years and pain to learn. One observation about conservative Muslim societies is that, at least, the messaging and implicit teaching of the society in regards to women's dress is more consistent. It seems to be easier to learn the right values because the cultural norms more closely reflect the values of chastity and modesty, i.e. headscarves, conservative women's dress. I am not saying that there are not other problems with these societies, but I can see the reasons, and also appreciate some of the criticisms of Western non-Islamic societies, that we are permissive and debauched in our cultural norms. In Western societies, our moral standards are low. Even in religious settings, sometimes. Of course it is a man's responsibility to train himself, but men are bombarded from a young age with unclear and conflicting messages. Speaking for myself, I am 30 now, and it took me this long to begin to teach myself these values. This society did not offer me that teaching. I had to go out for myself to get it.

[@neromillie]

You're absolutely right about the conflicting messages. I really feel for men who must try to avert their eyes when a scantily clad woman walks past. Even as a woman myself, I cannot help but look! If someone has their body on display, I think it is natural to notice. I also struggle during the summer when men are out running with their shirts off. Men's fashion has also become more revealing - shirts and pants are much more form fitting. It's incredibly unfair to both sexes to tempt in this way.

[@jr9779]

Excellently said!

[@jr9779]

@@neromillie Yes, I don’t like it either. Satan is all about destroying people through their senses. I regularly dress modestly. Stopped wearing bikinis in my late 20s. Didn’t think it was prudent once I had my sons. They’ve grown up to prefer modest women. When they were younger, if we were at a store or mall, I know they would see teens or women dress immodestly, so I would tell them that wasn’t acceptable in God’s eyes. Not that these people were bad, but that they just didn’t know better.

[@awsambdaman]

neromillie Well said!

[@francikoen]

@@neromillie MEN are also obligated to practice the virtue of modesty... by modest speech... modest custody of their eyes... and modest refrain from displaying their wealth. Christians continually gripe about women while you exonerate immodest men.

[@vanessamtp]

Yes men for the sake of their own salvation do need to deal with their perception of women, look away, see them with dignity etc; however, women for the sake of their own salvation as well need to be educated on how to dress appropriately. Pope Pius XI provided a very clear description of how women should dress. The closer I get to that description the more feminine I feel. My closet consists of beautiful long skirts and nice blouses that are not tight fitting. I feel respected and have no longer gotten stared at or talked to in a disrespectful manner. The way Matt’s wife approached that lady is a very loving a neighborly thing to do and I wish more people could do that. Although I have a hard time doing that I do pray for all these young ladies since I too have been in that situation unknowingly. Many saints do address this in a rather stern way however, showing us how severe this is for our salvation. Here are a couple of examples from the great Don Bosco: Don Bosco talking to a young girl in front of her mother and sisters: Don Bosco: why do you despise your arm so? Girl: I don’t despise them Don Bosco: yet it seems to me that you do Girl’s mother: far from it, often I have to scold her for being so vain. She’s always washing her arms and perfuming it with fragrant water Don Bosco: Yet I tell you that you despise your arms Girl: why? How? Don Bosco: because when you die, I pray that you go to heaven, but certainly these arms of yours will be thrown to burn in the fire. Is this not despising them? Girl: but I did nothing wrong, I don’t want to go to Hell. Don Bosco: it will be at least purgatory, and who knows for how long. Older sister: but this goes for me also? Because my neck is uncovered ?(referring to a low cut blouse) Don Bosco: well the flames of the arms will go up the neck and circle it all Mother: alright I get it. It’s my duty to correct all of this. And she thanked Don Bosco for the warning Don Boscos mother would also approach women that were scantly dressed and tell them: don’t you know your guardian angel walks at your side? Dressed as you are, you make him ashamed to have you in his care. They would reply that they are poor and did not have anyone to provide them clothing. So she would take them to her home and mend and patch their dresses and send them out again presentable. Gabriel Castillo also talks about modesty in men and women with examples of what to wear and what to avoid if anyone is interested in diving further into this topic. All in a very respectful and loving way and it aligns with what Pope Pius XI said. Thanks for talking about a subject that needs much awareness.

[@madeleinearancibia]

I love everything about this

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're glad it was helpful! If you'd like to go deeper here's the full series: kzbin.info/aero/PLAbqXQaOvkM4UxMiREWkgYmY-PHTEnRtn

[@DavidTheHust]

People still need to hear about fraternal correction and how to correct the immodest. Parents need this but also priests too so as to properly discipline/disciple people.

[@DavidTheHust]

This is a great addition since they didn’t use address fraternal correction: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKrEpGemiqpjf80si=FtQwAnVLnaIFEK9A

[@sorcindy]

Beautifully presented ❤

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for watching! Please pray for us.

[@hippopotamusanonymous1580]

The way they make clothing today makes modesty hard when u want to wear something nice.

[@JoAnnFuir]

What you say is very true! Many clothes are immodest. If you wish to buy a modest swimsuit in a store today, you will have a difficult time finding one.

[@ChristRisenLord]

SO GOOD!! JESUS IS KING

[@isabellfox2915]

This is so interesting because we have had many discussions about modesty especially in the way so many young women dress these days, but the point is appropriateness also - for example on a beach or at a pool a swimsuit or shorts and perhaps a slightly revealing top might not raise many eyebrows, but, in a school room or church no not appropriate nor are some of the dresses I have seen in the summer low or even with almost nothing covering their shoulders at all, slits up to the tops of their legs and then they are struggling to keep them closed when they sit (which of course draws people's eyes to the legs etc etc. People seem to have just lost any sense of modesty and it is an easy trap to fall into especially for women given you can sometimes stuggle to find appropriate clothing in shops!!

[@travisschmitt5315]

Fantastic video

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for watching!

[@extravaganza7573]

The holy mother church told us specifically how to dress appropriately. ❣

[@priscillastraw1618]

We are all sinners and responsible for each other’s well being equally. Women and men this days in one way or another wants to make use of their sexuality to control the other and not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions and put the blame on anyone but themselves. Modesty and self respect has gone out of the window.

[@MrsScott-bx8sb]

One more topic of conversation: He was speaking about the redhead and her flicking her hair. I'm curious. Was he seeing her sexually or beautifully? I ask because there is a gentleman in my parish who had a conversion of heart and switched from cargo shorts and graphic t shirts at Mass to a well-tailored suit. He groomed his hair and beard and strikes quite a handsome figure. I find his appearance handsome but I don't think or feel sexually towards him. Can a man not admire beauty without getting dirty thoughts? Another is priests in cassocks. I can't keep my eyes off of them! There's just something so stunningly handsome about priests in cassocks, but, again, not sexually. Just beauty and goodness and masculinity worthy of admiration because it is good. But, yes, handsome and attractive to the eye and heart, but not something that arouses sexuality.

[@JoAnnFuir]

I think most bridal gowns today are too revealing. I am shocked by them! Modern brides seem to show off their breasts and bottoms. Sexy wedding gowns are very inappropriate in a church wedding. Beautiful brides don't dress like a porn star. Modesty is classy and elegant.

[@terraroeber7587]

This is so good! I’m 35 and I still struggle with the concept of modesty, and as a mother of 9 I don’t want my children, especially my girls, to have this struggle

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're so glad it was helpful @terraroeber7587 ! Praying for your family.

[@francikoen]

Males are also obligated to practice the virtue of modesty.... especially modest speech and modest custody of their eyes. Modest custody of the eyes includes turning off the boob tube.... not griping about the immodestly dressed women on tv and movies.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Watch the full discussion here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/opLQYoWlrd-hnrMsi=jBLCQHsSW8UAfpDu

[@ROBERT-fd4kl]

Modesty is important for both women and men. Both genders can be a distraction to the opposite sex if they are immodest.

[@rosemarymaher6726]

Sitting at the front in church cuts out distractions. There is no mad rush for the front row.

[@elisewelge2134]

“The way you might look at my very decent nakedness might be indecent!” 😂😂😂😂😂

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

😂

[@bearbait7405]

Thank you.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

You're so welcome!! Consider checking out the entire conversation: Watch the full discussion/series here: kzbin.info/aero/PLAbqXQaOvkM4UxMiREWkgYmY-PHTEnRtn

[@EmanuelMartinez-1571]

Yes, men can be aroused by anything, even a modesty-dressed woman. But obvious articles of clothing like leggings, short shorts, tank tops and bikinis reveal that which should be concealed and unnecessarily cause a greater struggle for people to be chaste. Again, lust can be caused by anything, but there are some things which are more directed towards causing lust than other things. Yes, men have a prior obligation to guard the purity of their own hearts; but women have the obligation to be their brother's keeper and avoid things which are obviously revealing. As was said in the video, this is not because the body is bad. I suppose the main issue I have with this video is that after a man works to protect his chastity, now what? What is the charitable way to go about guiding our sisters to dressing in a way that's fitting for a daughter of God? Our Lady of Fatima was explicit about foretelling that fashions would arise that would offend her Immaculate Heart; so this is something that is a particular concern to her.

[@karinayrodriguez]

Beautiful ❤

[@User-yb6jdcg1t]

My favorite Sophia Loren quote: A woman's dress should be like a barbed-wire fence: serving its purpose without obstructing the view.

[@jonahhahr7756]

lol I don’t think Sophia Loren is somebody to explain modesty.

[@pearlescobar9449]

To tell you the truth that quote sounds like it’s promoting immodest clothing

[@mvose2085]

How is it promoting immodest clothing? You don’t think she actually means wearing barbed-wire, right?

[@krdiaz8026]

@@pearlescobar9449 depends on what she meant by "the view."

[@User-yb6jdcg1t]

First of all, I shared the quote because I was reminded of it when Christopher West was explaining the difference between being modest and a prude. Clothing is meant to veil the sacred. It serves a purpose just as a barbed wire fence serves as a line of demarcation. It is not however a solid brick wall that is meant to prevent everyone from seeing gentle beauty. Christians do not promote the hedonism of nudist colonies nor the harsh judgment of the body exhibited by the burka. It is the modest, moderate space between. "Serving its purpose without blocking the view". Another favorite of mine is Myrna Loy's: "a women's dress should be fitted enough to show she is a woman, but loose enough to prove she is a lady." I dress modestly to respect myself and the men around me. I dress stylishly and in a feminine way to still allow, as Christopher recalls JP2 describing, my beauty and soul to be seen by those who might want to fall in love with me. 😊

[@roseg1333]

I would say adding to like the people’s hearts carry a sort of spirit of immodesty in them by choice not the way he said it

[@SufferingWell-dtwakr]

Matt, You kept pointing out that the woman in the example where the man couldn't receive communion, needed to be corrected. Do you think that someone needed to correct the man?

[@jenniferflower9265]

Men will never heal from lust until he takes responsibility for it in his heart. It comes from the thoughts generated in his own head and heart not from outside of the self. Men will keep struggling by putting the responsibility on others. Addicts do this as well. There’s alway a reason from out there that triggers them to take that next drink. Until they deal with the things of life and develops good coping skills, and takes ahold of their thought and desires. They will keep drinking. One can’t and shouldn’t control others. One can only change what happens in theirselves.

[@tonyrossi3151]

All you have to do to understand holiness and modesty is to treat your heart and flesh like the Old Testament tabernacle. Only let other Christian’s until your holy place, and only let Jesus into the holiness of all. Only let those who have been granted access inside the veil.

[@joolz5747]

So I agree, but what do you do when the beach is filled with bikinis and topless bikinis and teeny bikinis and everybody’s got them what do you do? I don’t know my feeling is that there should be a lot more discussion about “how adorable there are bathing suits that are NOT bikinis” and then it actually looks better on you. I understand what you’re saying, but I’m a grandma and this is a complicated subject.

[@camelia12]

My dear brethren, when mine eyes behold the spectacle of immodesty, I discern a manifestation of dominance, wherein the flesh is employed as a weapon to assert supremacy. In the instance of a father accompanying his daughter, attired in garments that reveal more than they conceal, I perceive a dereliction of paternal duty, a failure to provide the necessary protection and guidance. The daughter, thus exposed, is left vulnerable, bereft of the support and counsel that ought to be her birthright. In such cases, the natural order is inverted, and women assume the dominant role, leveraging their sexuality as a means of competition and self-assertion. Their attire, far from being merely a matter of personal preference, becomes a weapon in the struggle for dominance. Yet, we must not be deceived into reducing this issue to a simplistic binary. Nay, we must consider the deeper symbolic meaning, the cultural and societal context, that underlies this phenomenon. For the question of modesty is intimately tied to the concept of dignity, as witnessed in the scriptural account of our first parents, who, upon their fall from grace, recognized their nakedness as shameful. Let us not be fooled into thinking that nudity, in and of itself, is inherently virtuous. Rather, let us acknowledge that our choices regarding dress and modesty have far-reaching implications, both spiritual and cultural. In this, we must seek wisdom, that we may navigate the complexities of this issue with prudence and discernment.

[@francikoen]

Let us not be fooled into thinking that the Virtue of Modesty is only for women. Men are also obligated to practice modesty.... especially modest speech.... modest custody of their eyes.... and modest refrain from showing off expensive cars and other goods.

[@camelia12]

@@francikoen and you are right in realizing this because immodesty in women is a masculine nature.

[@francikoen]

@@camelia12 You are #GenderConfused. Women's immodesty is not "masculine." Men's immodest speech or immodest lack of custody of their eyes or immodest display of wealth are not "feminine" either. Online Standard English Dictionaries are free. You would benefit from looking up the definition of "masculine." You are still hyperfixated on women and modesty... while you exonerate men's immodesty.

[@daniellenm395]

Most of the time, i feel i dress modestly, but at work its harder. If i don’t want to accentuate anything, i basically have to drown in my clothes. I don’t think ive ever had a pair a pants that looked modest unless its extremely oversized and baggy.

[@kaylashryock2743]

I’m back again, because this didn’t sit well with me I went back and forth testing this in my spirit. Part of me was like yeah this is good and other parts of me were furious with it as if it was the most deceitful evil false teaching that could only be meant to draw one to themselves and not to God, one to them, one to the individual, one to their own mind to say I do whatever please me. Ear tickling it is, it seems like divine revelation. YET HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS “Then the Lord said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites this: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold. “ ‘Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. And do not go up to my altar on steps, or your private parts may be exposed.’” ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭22‬-‭26‬ “Nor shall you go up by steps to My altar, that your nakedness may not be exposed on it.’” ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ Don’t you know that when the inside of the cup becomes clean the outside becomes clean also so with that there inherently is grace for those who aren’t yet clean appearance wise that remain in modest for now yet once their heart is thoroughly cleaned in these areas by God on the outside, they will appear much more modest. Even in heaven, we will be dressed in white robes. We will not be naked in heaven. Why does everyone think this I have thought this? This teaching is so dangerous to those who were and are in the process of being cleaned internally. It is corrupted. It puts a halt to the renewing of the mind to the convictions that were ushering them towards modesty now tickled, they revert backwards in heart.

[@mariekatherine5238]

Not someone who walks around other than waterside or poolside in a bikini or a Speedo. Not someone who wears a Taliban outfit or full camouflage with eye shields and face mask. Modesty is in between two to three steps more towards Taliban than Speedo.

[@francikoen]

Modesty includes more than clothing. The Virtue of modesty includes modes speech and modest custody of the eyes and modest refrain from displays of wealth.

[@mycharmed12]

17:11 Women should dress modestly for mass ...for they need to protect the men in their lives..Father, son,brother and husband.Remember the mass is the sacrifice offered to God ..how would you dress if you were at Calvary.

[@francikoen]

MEN should protect the women in their lives.... but they don't #DoubleStandards. Men should practice modest speech and modest custody of their eyes. But they don't. They go home from Mass, complain about the women's clothing, then turn on the boob tube to watch more women.

[@KathyStrickland-nh9vx]

I may be off here but this brings to my mind how Islam teaches that it is up to women to wear all their garb because men will look at them with lust.

[@trottingfox7944]

Is this channel not available as podcast format?

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Not yet! But Christopher does have a podcast called The Ask Christopher West Podcast. You can find it on any streaming platform.

[@trottingfox7944]

@@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute thank you! Will look it up. God bless

[@marilynbartlett1850]

The parts of the body that many of us have been taught are dirty or inappropriate are the parts by which God has given us the ability that aligns us most with Himself - the ability to create and bring forth life. That is why the Enemy hates us so much - because we can create, we can bring forth life, and he cannot create anything nor can he bring forth life. So naturally, he's got a sour grapes attitude about that and if he can't eliminate something, such as our ability to procreate, he will pervert it, lie about it, or make us think it's evil. He is out to steal and kill and destroy and he's got a lot of strategies to that end.

[@ileanamuntean7338]

That's why covering your face and all of your body is not "modesty", in fact it's a type of exhibitionism in a European Christian context.

[@gertrudesantos5550]

I appreciate this topic.. However, why not say, " I need to get dressed" or "I'm veiling myself" ? As opposed to all that was said concerning the need to dressing oneself before a door is opened that was stated in this video.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Hello @gertrudesantos5550 ! Thank you for your honest comment! Christopher says that in order to make a point. He's does not intend for people to say those specific words when somebody knocks at the door. 😄

[@gertrudesantos5550]

@@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute That's good to hear 😂

[@EduardoGonzalez-cw7jv]

Woman: *Flips hair* Mans brain: “DREEEEEAAAAAM WEAVERRRR!!!” 😂 Nothing has every described the order of events and the function of the male brain more clearly 😂😂😂

[@mvose2085]

Then watch the whole video. They both sing it together.

[@FrankD23]

@@EduardoGonzalez-cw7jv Whatever.. Women should be veiled in the church.. I don't know why they changed that after vatican two.. Mass is supposed to be a place where we praise God, not the beautiful women's hair 😡

[@FrankD23]

@@EduardoGonzalez-cw7jv Whatever.. Women should wear veils during mass.. We're here to praise God, not the beautiful woman's hair 😡

[@BlackFeather713]

Lmao you sound muslim ​@FrankD23

[@funnygaming2672]

@@FrankD23 we veil for God not for men's that has control problem over beautiful hair ,it even encourage to make ourselves beautiful for God he made us feminine. so i wear makeup and wear beautiful covering clothes since God is the TRUE KING and we should dress nice Infront of our lord but if a someone has less $$ basic hygiene and a scarf for a veil should be enough ...I personally wear a full opaque veil/hijab style i like colorful one with embroidery flowers. the lace transparent one is ridiculous! it doesn't cover the hair at all we still see the hair under neat it ... I wear it has much has i can in everyday live out of church too .I got bad experience with mens demanding that i show more or threaten my live thinking im muslim even when i wear an obvious cross .I can only go out with my husband if i wear it i dont feel safe i live in canada quebec apparently a pink flower scarf is scary and im wearing a costume for covering myself pfff 🙄💅🏼🧕🏼✝

[@camelia12]

Modesty becomes a virtue insofar as it acknowledges the divinely ordained hierarchy of creation, wherein men are entrusted with paternal guidance. When a woman fails to exhibit modesty, whether through ignorance or intention, she unwittingly undermines the masculine role of headship, thereby inverting the natural order. By unveiling her bodily form, she inadvertently severs the symbolic bond of submission, reducing her power to the mere exploitation of her physical allure. This, in turn, engenders a perverse dynamic wherein women, now compelled to compete amongst themselves, seek dominion through the very aspect of their being that ought to be most protected and revered.

[@francikoen]

*Men are also obligated to practice the Virtue of Modesty.* Especially modest speech and modest custody of men's eyes. Catholics hyper-fixate modesty at women.... while they exonerate immodest male speech... and men's immodest custody of their eyes....and men's immodest display of expensive cars and other goods.

[@Blockishbookhead]

Well put!

[@francikoen]

Both men and women are obligated to practice the virtue of modesty. Men, in particular are obligated to practice modest speech and modesty custody of their eyes. Men deliberately fail at both, then gripe at women. Paternal guidance, when it is effective, is the virtue of prudence.

[@debrakeogh]

The reason why women were asked to veil in Church because it is a sign that the woman is holy, that womanhood and motherhood is holy! It is an interesting fact that here in the UK women discarded wearing the veil at Mass at the same time that divorce, contraception and abortion became legalised! And this has marked the beginning of the decline of congregations and people lapsing from the faith.

[@francikoen]

And at the same time when men began staring at the Boob Tube whenever they are not at work. American men watch an average of 3 hours TV per day. It would be absurd for women to veil... when men go home and watch strange women on TV and movies for hours every day.

[@joolz5747]

So I agree, but what do you do when the beach is filled with bikinis and topless bikinis and teeny bikinis and everybody’s got them what do you do? I don’t know my feeling is that there should be a lot more discussion about how adorable they are bathing suits that are bikinis and then it actually looks better on you. I understand what you’re saying, but I’m a grandma and this is a complicated subject.

[@una1940]

Fr Mike O’Connor gives a good sermon “For God’s Sake put some clothes on”. KZbin.

[@matthewashman1406]

this is very idealistic

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for the honest comment Matthew! “For human beings this is impossible, but for God all things are possible.” Mt 19:26 We truly believe in the power of the Resurrection for us and for you, brother.

[@veronicarowe3960]

What about male modesty.. .men wearing tight tights

[@francikoen]

Men are also obligated to practice modesty.... especially modest speech and modest custody of their eyes. Modesty is more than clothing. I wish Catholics would stop boxing in the virtue of modesty to make it smaller!

[@matthewmascarenas6307]

Some of this I think, is a little bit far fetched. I can only speak for myself, but yes, seeing sexually provocative women usually does exactly what the sexual provocatively dress was probably and intended to do which is incite sexual arousal in a man. Also, no, this is not simply a matter of a man trying to put the blame on a woman. Let's face it regardless of whether or not a woman intended to or not elicit sexual arousal in a man with her dress the fact of the matter is that certain types of dress will objectively accomplish sexual aurosal regardless of what their intentions were. Yes, that would put diminishing culpability on the woman but the objective effects of the dress is still there. Most old school thought seemsed to be that of flee the temptation of sin and try to remove the temptations to sin as much as possible. What is the deal with this new school of thought within the church where if there is some sort of temptation to sin instead of trying to flee the temptation to sin, we actually have this mindset of oh, if there is a temptation to sin then Well, I just simply need to look at myself rather than maybe looking at myself and understand Im a lust filled pervert instead of understanding your weaknesses. using that knowledge of yourself to try and limit the occasions that might lead to your downfall? What happened to our society where we used to also recognize as a whole where most people's weaknesses are and attempted to establish a society with the knowledge of people's weaknesses in mind to try to limit occasions for people's downfall? Was St. Thomas Aquinas, a pervert, because he had to drive a prostitute from his room? Why didn't he just have the ability to entertain the lady, have a cup of tea with her etc.. must have been an indicator that he was an impure pervert, huh? It must have been a you problem with St. Thomas Aquinas, that he wasn't able to just sit there with a prostitute in his room, entertain her, have tea with het etc.. Why didn't saint thomas aquinas show that prostitute her true value as a woman? Why didn't saint thomas aquinas show that woman and us men by example How to show that prostitute her true dignity, and her true worth? Why did saint thomas aquinas instead show how much impurity was inside of him by chasing out the prostitute?If he wasn't so impure, he would have had no problem with having a prostitute in his room right? Why didn't St. Thomas Aquinas do the proper thing and instead of chasing that woman out with a torch, spend a day or two with the prostitute and bring her to see her dignity and her beauty as a child of God? Was Saint Thomas Aquinas's chasing out the prostitute a sign of his impurity, or is it rather a sign that he valued purity that he noticed the danger such a situation posed to his purity and chased it away? What is the deal with this new school of thought which seems to basically oppose what Saint Thomas Aquanis did?

[@francikoen]

MEN are also obligated to practice the Virtue of Modesty.... especially modest speech and modest custody of their eyes. But men don't. You just blame women instead. MEN deliberately watch provocatively dressed women on TV and movies. All they have to do is turn of the Boob Tube. You are #GenderConfused to blame women for men's lust. Men can and should look away. You want free entertainment.... then you whine and gripe about it.

[@Blockishbookhead]

Great question!

[@francikoen]

It's too bad that educated Catholics ignore men's obligation to practice the virtue of modesty.... especially regarding modest speech and modest custody of their eyes.

[@strawberrysmile2212]

But what is wrong with a back? There are for sure women like me want to be stylish and modest and sometimes an open back looks really good.

[@chelsead8142]

It's not about there being anything wrong with the back. To recap, the body is not covered because it's wrong. It's veiled because it is good and others might not give it proper honor. It sounds like from the story, it was more about how exposed the back was. It sounded like the back was so exposed such that if viewed from behind, she would look naked from the waist up. A low back or sheer back could be fine in most cases, though a near completely backless top could give the illusion of nudity, which might incite lust.

[@elizabethnegri9663]

That’s kind of the point of the video. Bodies are good and beautiful, but revealing too much (like an open back) doesn’t invite “Look at me as a person”, it invites “look at my back.” Modesty in dress will veil until an appropriate time. Immodesty in dress will show off parts, but not the whole. It might look good, but it a) doesn’t do justice to your whole person (body and soul) and it b) can be a stumbling block for your fellow man. Christians should be aware of both.

[@elizabethnegri9663]

I feel like a low or sheer back would still be a lot of exposed skin in a more intimate area, though?

[@chelsead8142]

@elizabethnegri9663 I agree, I don't like wearing low or sheer backs myself, but am not sure about discouraging it for everyone. I think it might depend on the occasion or the garment. The back isn't sexual in nature or holding any particular function of honor (like the womb does), so it could be more of a gray area.

[@elizabethnegri9663]

Yeah, I feel like it’s not strictly sexual but also if you’ve got a big ol’ patch of skin there I feel like it would be hard for people to not naturally want to/imagine putting their hand there or something.

[@Roni78z]

I don’t remember the name of the Priest, he gave a great talk about how women, when they put it out there - they allow a man use his lust to - in his memory- imbed her “stuff” whereas it should be meant for her husband only. Totally agree. As a women, I make it a point to be respectful in my dress. People - both men and women should exercise their visual communication of their bodies. It’s common sense, but the devil uses it to pervert and tempt. There, done boys.

[@francikoen]

That priest needs and class in anatomy. Every man has eyes that can stare at women or look at something else. Modesty includes men's modest custody of their eyes... which that priest totally ignored. Christians love to bitch about women while exonerating men.

[@FrankD23]

Comparing the eucharist to sex is just blasphemous.. Come on guys

[@NJWEBER18]

The closest comparison between Jesus and us is Matrimony. This can be seen in the Bible with the best Biblical descriptions of our relationship as marriage. There are so many comparisons one can make between marriage and our relationship with God. It is not blasphemous. An example of how important it is: Mary is the mother of Jesus, the daughter of the Father, and the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

[@FrankD23]

@NJWEBER18 Yes but let's not forget It's a "Chase" Relationship. There is absolutely ZERO 0 Sexual component Between us the blessed (virgin) Mary and God. All through catholic tradition chastity and celibacy was praised.. By saint paul himself actually.. And I don't know why randomly after vatican two sex is something People are praising.. In my opinion, it's just an occasion of sin that should be avoided except for married couples who are procreating Obviously.

[@FrankD23]

@NJWEBER18 Yes.. But the relationship between us the blessed VIRGIN Mary And God is completely "chase".. Which means there is ZERO Sexual component. You're missing the point. Sex, in my opinion, is an occasion of sin and should only be practiced by married couples who are procreating. Chastity and celibacy should be celebrated.. souls can get closer to God by avoiding the sin of lust that more often than not shows up during marital sex.

[@FrankD23]

@NJWEBER18 Also many saints have said that the number one I thing That leads souls to hell is lust. We should not be praising the doorway to lust which is sex.. We have to accept that we are falling Creatures and we have to avoid things like sex unless absolutely necessary, like in marriage when we are procreating.

[@NJWEBER18]

@@FrankD23 you are getting awfully close to the doctrine on marriage by the Manichaeist Heresy. Sex is absolutely beautiful and not sinful by Catholic teaching. I do not know where you are getting this view of sex, but it is not the Catholic Magesterium. Sex is not a "necessary evil", it is one of the most beautiful gifts to man, hence why it is part of procreation, which is a participation with God's action of creation.

[@jenniferflower9265]

Men will never heal from lust until he takes responsibility for it in his heart. It comes from the thoughts generated in his own head and heart not from outside of the self. Men will keep struggling by putting the responsibility on others. Addicts do this as well. There’s alway a reason from out there that triggers them to take that next drink. Until they deal with the things of life and develops good coping skills, and takes ahold of their thought and desires. They will keep drinking. One can’t and shouldn’t control others. One can only change what happens in theirselves.

[@awsambdaman]

I don’t think men have a problem with understanding that they should not lust. But for anyone to mention that maybe women shouldn’t wear skin tight clothing is like the end of the world..we both have responsibility

[@jenniferflower9265]

@@awsambdaman there are tribes in Africa where women run around topless and breastfed openly in front of the village men, There isn’t a lust problem there. You can blame advertisers here for sexulizing the women’s body to the point where men can’t or believe that feeling is coming from outside of themselves. Breasts are for feeding babies. A lot of the world understands this. Lust and feeling are created in your own head.

[@francikoen]

@@awsambdaman Most Christians blame women for men's lust. And men are also called to practice modest speech and modest custody of their eyes... both of which are routinely ignored by Catholics.... to instead hyperfixate on women.

[@francikoen]

@@awsambdaman False. Most men relish in their lust. They go home from Mass and spend the afternoon watching the Boob Tube.

[@jenniferflower9265]

@@awsambdaman there are many reasons women shouldn’t wear skin tight clothing. However, there’s a long long history of men blaming women for what’s happening in their own mind and heart and for the actions of men. Blaming is victim mentality. It’s like men acting like a woman dressing that way caused them to say, rape them. As if they are the victims of a tight dressed woman. It weak, it’s sad. There are real victims out there. The raped, the stollen from, the beaten. Men act like they are victims of this when they are the perpetrators. There’s no excuse. And that’s the problem. The problem exists in their own evil heart and mind. God wants us to renew the heart and mind and get the evil out of it. There are many cultures at which dressing in different ways is considered modest. And one culture will condemn another for it. Modest is considered, what is appropriate for the situation. It would be appropriate for me to wear a tight dress and heels at a salsa class, perhaps not going out to dinner with families. Dressing modest has more to do with a culture appropriateness than a man’s lust. To bring people together in a unified way. Like, the army. For a purpose. It is sick men who twisted this and can control their own minds and hearts and the behavior reaches out for control. The Bible says to both men and women, do not lust. It puts the responsibility in the person lusting.