Jin is Always Broken

[@HQRubbish]

As pointed out by @kinaestheticcritique, there is an omission present in the Just Frame Laser Scraper section of this video. While the first two hits of the Laser Cannon/Scraper string is -2 on block, an opponent can actually lessen the suffered blockstun by side walking to the right, making the attack -10 instead. Something that meaningfullly changes (though certainly not solving) the opponents relation to the string.

[@rogeriodelima6397]

It's a great video overall, but I can't ignore Rubbish's fixation about correcting other content creators while portraying them as dumbasses or people who spread misinformation on purpose. That's like, his second or third video where he includes corrections about someone else's video while mentioning their names and showing them how wrong they are, his "The Greatest Technique You Never Heard Of" video is based entirely on this, saying how you can tell a lie lots of times and it becomes a fact, while also correcting people about frame data. This really feels like a dick move considering Rubbish himself includes lots of bias and omission in his videos when he wants to make his distorted opinions look like facts, like when he made a 40min video shitting on HitBoxes and saying they're played solely because of technical advantages (when Fightsticks are preferred by most tournament winning players), or when he made his "Fighting Games are Very Unfair" video saying how Slayer gets oppressed vs Ky and his Yellow Roman Cancel, while "forgetting" to say Slayer excels at everything else in the game and ends rounds easily whenever he scores a counter. Doing this sort of thing when your own content is based on non-factual takes is a poor attempt to make you look smarter than everyone else

[@a1337turtle]

that slayer video premise is insane if true

[@Jako3334074]

you mentioned the hitboxes, i know someone who used them solely because his wrists were so fucked up from playing mishimas he had to use something without a lever

[@HadesHatredEdge]

"Slayer gets oppressed?" Slayer downplay is wild.

[@Sorrelhas]

Hold on, was he talking abou Xrd Ky or Strive Ky?

[@paulpangilinan6671]

​@@Sorrelhas The video was on Xrd Ky and Slayer

[@melvinshine9841]

Once I realized the video was about Jin being "glitch" broken and not "overpowered top tier" broken, though they kind of blend together in Jin's case, I knew that arcade version df1 cancel was going to be here. The only reason I even know about it is because of Maina Highway's videos. With the subject being Jin bugs, I kind of expecting something he may or not still have in Tekken 8. It might be patched out by now, but if a Player 2 Jin broke a balcony, then clipped the grounded opponent with his Rage Art, it would cause visual effects from the opponent's Rage Art to start appearing in front of them. Given that it only works, specifically, with a P2 Jin, not just being on the P2 side, and requires you to waste resources to pull off something completely impractical, it's the kind bug I wouldn't mind them leaving in.

[@figlego]

Soul Calibur 5 Devil Jin has the oni cancel. It's a secret move that costs gauge but it works the same way as the original

[@Micha-Hil]

The Rubbish/TheoryFighter/Tekken collab is insane.

[@xDivorex]

Laser scraper was without a doubt intentional. Remember Tekken 4 had an arcade release, so they would’ve patched out in the console release if it was a bug.

[@Cat_in_The-Box]

Maybe, I'm not familiar with arcade t4. Have they fixed any other bug between arcade and console version of tekken 4?

[@RanOutOfSpac]

I dunno man, that game was so rushed and did so poorly, they probably said screw it and immediately began work on Tekken 5. Shame to cause T4 is my favorite

[@5uomalainen]

I'd say it was intentional as well but there's a possibility that it slid under the radar since T4 it was hated in Korean arcades (that was and is one of the biggest Tekken regions). They just went back to Tag 1 before Tekken 5 rightfully fixed T4's deserved criticism (gameplay-wise).

[@Neogears1312]

Console port hat teleport bugs still so without a doubt you’re giving ppl too much credit.

[@Steambull1]

@@Cat_in_The-Box It wasn't Tekken 4 nor a change between arcade and console, but the first arcade version of Tekken 2 had King's df1 with the same guard stagger and guaranteed launch on block that Tekken 1 did. They fixed it in "Version B," which was the basis for the console version. But, that's somewhat telling - they initially missed the biggest thing to fix in Tekken 1.

[@bungieman2810]

Alright I'm gonna fight Jin Kazama ⚡️D A H⚡️ Dang Jin Kazama got hands

[@jerrywibowo007]

play this video at 1.25x, much better to watch and listen

[@stevendelancy6421]

😂😅

[@Ldarkkratos]

Nah he cooking rn lol😂 my guy Probably has a naturally slow cadence, so yeah, I had to turn up the speed just a bit

[@dan3195]

It’s sounds weirdly more natural lmao, thank you for saving me some time

[@MannyBiggz]

Some stuff worth mentioning about d/f+1, 2: The dash cancel was retained by Devil Jin in Tekken 5/DR, but he didn't cancel out before the second hit. Still though, in DR this gave Devil Jin obnoxious oki off of every launcher since he could end it with a d/f+1, 2 spike and then dash into very rewarding follow ups that were generally very low risk, including picking up back rollers with something like a a crouch dash into WS4 pick up. I saw Gandido run this on people, including my friend, when he visited NYC and was playing at Chinatown Fair. Regular Jin also has a version of the dash cancel, but it's off of his WS1, 2, and it's generally not all too useful. He just kinda sucked in general in 5.0 and DR. At least in 5.0 his 2, 4 retained that great knockdown though. One more funny thing I recall is in Soul Calibur 5 you can put Devil Jin's moveset on a custom character. That version of his moveset had the ability to do the Tekken 3 version of the d/f+1, 2 cancel, but it was tied to meter. I don't remember every trick you can do with it in that game, but I think I recall 1, 1, 2 being guaranteed if they blocked the d/f+1. It was hard as hell to execute though.

[@alondjeckto]

In SC5 you can give a custom character Dvj moveset? 10/10 game I need to play it.

[@lordflashheart3741]

​@@alondjecktoNah, as funny as that is, Sc5 isn't a good game. Especially not if you actually like Sc...

[@leukashot123]

Glad I checked the comments to find out Rubbish is in this video so I didn't waste my time watching 👍

[@oil_moon]

Really appreciate the explanation of the oni cancel, had seen it in TAS videos and never understood how it worked!

[@YoshiONE2ONE]

Considering Story Mode Jin in Tekken 8 can do the charged Laser Scraper, ima say it was probably intentional lol

[@xXSonTJXx]

Oh yall are using both Jin and Devil Jin. Because I remember for a fact Jin being wack in Tekken 5-6 😂

[@sigurdtayoro3199]

Wdym

[@sigurdtayoro3199]

I will not hear this slander of my goat

[@tablematts9055]

T6 Jin was decent. T5 Jin was meh

[@meinishikawa3730]

T5 Jin had no lows, if you hit the opponent YOU lose your turn and get punished. Add low damage on top of that, you were better off using Kazuya or Devil Jin.

[@LegitKiller4Life]

Literally my first thoughts when I clicked on this video. But the vid is more focusing on Jin being broken as in a glitch, not OP

[@DSKBR556]

the jin blue uppercut is also in T7 files and can be accessed with a moveset editor along with a blue hellsweep

[@jjenk911]

The Oni Cancel looks like a precursor to Street Fighter 4's FADC

[@SolidSonicTH]

Man, I just started looking at your vids again only in this past hour and you upload something dunking on my main since 6? I feel called out...

[@sneharashmi7553]

Watching Rubbish's video in 60fps for the first time! Thanks for hosting on your channel Theory Fighter!

[@TriggerzConnors]

Jin's DF 1 Oni cancel is still present in Tekken 8 while fighting kazuya at the end of story.

[@camaraslaurentiu3811]

They kept that cancel foe SC5, pretty neat

[@krisleggett3037]

The type of tekken videos i crave good stuff

[@augustgreig9420]

If you're going to begin inviting other's to do breakdowns on non-3D games/characters, perhaps you would consider doing Virtua Fighter, considering they just announced that VF6 is in the works. VF is still mine and many other people's favorite of all time. and I say this as someone who only plays 2-D fighters.

[@xXIzZy120Xx]

Awesome video, weird question tho? What font did you guys use for “SPECIAL WIND GOD FIST”?

[@HQRubbish]

It's called Tahyp-rahy-ter 22

[@xXIzZy120Xx]

@ Appreciate that bro! 🙏🏽

[@tikitakafutbol]

You're right. All my life playing tekken and I didn't have a clue about these moves. I enjoyed the video.

[@streetfighter5430]

Finally, someone did a full guide on T4 Laser scraper

[@justaway6901]

1:49 Isn't that Devil Jin? That stance. That's not Jin

[@Zwyrx_Hgqfyggz]

Yeah lol T8 Hin has EWHF unless he uses Heat Awakened Stance I guess they did it just for visual similarity without all the setup

[@Nex-76]

And the elctric and animation are different for Jin lmao they used devil Jin body to make it look cooler.

[@manchxz]

Tekken 4 Jin was so bad he paid for it in tekken 5 and 6

[@yama6767]

Bro, i came here to watch TheoryFighter not Rubbish. I like Rubbish but they talk utter nonsense. Jin is broken 1. "here is a bad move you can do by accident." 2. Tekken 4 Jin 3. He's pretty good in Tekken 3 with Game shark. Like wtf. Who fucking cares! I was waiting for it to kick in and it never happened.

[@aligamerable]

I find it funny that two iconic Jin bugs (JFLS and d/f+1) came back in T8 but as Easter eggs in the story finale.

[@GeistSC]

Title name: Jin is always broken Video Content: Jin was broken in Tekken 3 and 4. Nothing said about Jin in 5 6 and Tag 2 Rubbish stays having trash opinions lol nice music tho

[@NK-du7kp]

I need you to know how much i love your videos consistently sick ass content💜

[@kenncansino9513]

The last part is almost lore accurate that Jin learned all the bullshit cancels from Heihachi lmao. Great observation and video.

[@Memanruler]

Damn that's a tight image 1:00

[@ohanski]

Damn what a great intro to the video actual cinema very nice choice of music watched the whole video just for the intro~!

[@hamzahax]

That's my Goat That's my Main That's my Jin

[@Ryan-tc2el]

There's callback to the Oni cancel in Soulcalibur 5. The game had Devil Jin as a guest moveset you could give to a custom character, and the movelist had a 3A that you could spend half a bar of meter to cancel. The game has ringouts and the move disabled air control, so juggles could be deadly with two bars of meter. However the character was banned because the conmunity didn't want to maintain a standard custom character for tournaments.

[@avoidthevo1d]

Okay i thought this would be another jin crybaby vid, but the vid actually turned out to be really interesting

[@10_Bit]

i hate to be that guy but anyone who has played Tekken 7 on a decent level know they have to jump as soon as Akuma starts his rage art

[@Aware_Wolf_X4]

NGL, I love Tekken 4, but not from the competitive perspective. It's one of my favorite games to play through the Arcade mode on.

[@gabrielalmeidaporsche1129]

This video’s ending with heihachi’s paralel was a masterpiece

[@Avenger131]

High quality and entertaining video. But I do feel a bit misled by that video title. This really only showed Jin being broken in old games.

[@VDViktor]

oh a rare fellow stoner/doom rock enjoyer i see xD Bongripper slaps

[@dr.wolfstar1765]

Jin should have been in Smash Bros

[@ElectroDojo]

Great Video!

[@roamalot3000]

When you watch a really promising video essay on Tekken and Rubbish is narrating it 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔

[@mickjansson-cc1og]

About the intro and akumas rage art. You could just jump when he did that and then punish.

[@alondjeckto]

I was hyped for the new TheoryFighter video, until I saw the description...

[@lostdreamer50]

Uh oh, NovaSeiken 2 hour documentary reaction vid incoming!

[@Sorrelhas]

Not only "if it can be done, it will be done", but "if it can be done, some rando out there will learn how to do it consistently"

[@patfuryy]

I had no idea about DVJ wind god fist being +10 guaranteed followups. I fucking play Tekken for years now lol

[@elliotl1945]

Fuck yeah bongripper

[@drychineb1835]

Two of my favorite fgc content creators collabing :)

[@DoomsayerStudios]

THIS DUDE DOIN' STRINGS!

[@franciscolemedasilva4648]

Great work 👍

[@KorruptedFlame]

That's why he's the GOAT! THE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAT!

[@nelomalkevain4129]

Yo that's my boy Jim Tekken

[@squirrelsyrup1921]

00:03:00 box of exploding coilgun ammunition in the background

[@mariotaz]

Wait what?

[@ThirtyfourEC]

Always knew Jin had conqueror's haki.

[@BlueRose28975]

Quick note you can escape Akumas rage art I'm T7 you just had to jump

[@OGREKVLT]

Subbing for Tekken x Bongripper

[@imlionet]

oh hey another TheoryFighter video Rubbish is presenting it well, guess I gotta unsub now

[@raiaanahmed8804]

Bro wtf is this title this is just clickbait. Literally only mention t3 and t4 and not mention he was trash and mediocre in t5/6?

[@wakkaseta8351]

Speaking of Jin, how good would his fireball form SFxT be in Tekken, considering it functions more as a mine than as a projectile?

[@Iqzzy-KO]

I did not know about the Special Wind God Fist!

[@myboy_]

Oh heeeeell yeah

[@MinaKamiXiV]

The right punch button” lost me

[@Jay4Nines]

"Akumas inescapebable rage art.." lol just jump backwards

[@neotron6490]

And thats why Jin is the main character of the series

[@Jay4Nines]

u can also do the Oni Cancel in soul calibur 5 when u play a custom character with devil jins fighting styyle

[@DiabolicCrusher]

>akuma's inescapable RA Unless he already is doing combo on you, it very much is escapable, just jump.

[@ceddle]

Where can I find the Tekken 3 typeface? The editing in this video was incredible!

[@crackedleopard]

But you forgot to mention that actually a mini version of jin's dash cancel does exist in tekken 8, only final battle jin can perform it

[@ashbeeharry]

Shout out to T6 where Jin Kazama was C-TIER at best!

[@YoitsGlitch]

I hope I'm not making things up but I'm pretty sure Jin got his T3 oni cancel in his moveset during story mode when he uses his mishima stance against Kazuya. Although very nerfed and balanced. 😂

[@Xerofull]

chef kiss

[@Ferrari255GTO]

Whaaaat? Noo! How could you think that? 😂

[@M4TTYN]

Already not even 30 seconds you can avoid akuma's raging demon with a simple jump on T7....... like bro!

[@alexlovehall7796]

listen. I love your content. Ima watch this later. As a Jin main since Tekken 4 when I first saw the hoodie and main him in every game since (now both normal and Devil Jin) I must say he is always broken and he should be always broken. When Jin is top 1 of 1, the game just feels right. Jin being top 5 is acceptable but the stronger the better. The tekken gods smile upon me when both Jin and Devil Jin are Top 5

[@BigCreepySleepy]

Amazing Video 🕹️

[@blackheart59_]

i approve

[@vinrock]

5.0 and 5.1 jin was ass come on. Also 6.0 jin was bottom tier. He was ok in br and 7.0 in fr he was ok

[@Jay16998]

Bro jin was weak in tekken 5 to tekken tag 2 although he was a bit better in 6 and tag 2. Also didn't this rubbish person make a video where they defended akuma saying akuma is a mid tier character or something like that?

[@rogeriodelima6397]

Rubbish writes biased opinions about the things he dislikes and tries to convince everyone else he's saying facts. He made a 20min video about how Slayer from Guilty Gear Xrd is oppressed by Ky Kiske but actually slayer is excellent at almost every single aspect of the game

[@Jay16998]

@@rogeriodelima6397 so it is the same person then. Thats why the video felt a bit biased. As far as i remember jin or devil jin has never been 'broken' except t4 jin. Sure they had op stuff but the others had equal or way above tools to counter them

[@alondjeckto]

video is more about broken in unintended way then character strength way. But yeah it's strange to see a collab with GarbageMan™. And including JF Laser Scraper is definitely a wrong choice, what kind of "bug" is going to have the same visual effect as other hidden JF attacks?

[@doublejacketjimmy391]

Probably the word “broken” in this context means “working not as intended” instead of “Overpowered”.

[@Jay16998]

@@doublejacketjimmy391 yeah the thing is jin has never been broken or overpowered in any of the games except Tekken 4, he was really strong in t7 but he was one of the most execution heavy characters in the entire cast. Also they didn't speak enough about t5 jin he was absolutely rubbish in it.

[@TheUncutAngel]

am i watching this is slow motion?

[@Nmglotus]

Laser scraper wasn't unintentional

[@Azure029]

lightning of fate

[@kaizerwave8994]

Instead of calling it "special wind god fist", how about call it "imperfect wind god fist"

[@yeagmatic]

good video but it ended just as i felt it was getting started. i would expect a video with this caliber of title/thumbnail to be like 40 minutes long, be extra comprehensive, and go in depth into every iteration of jin. the depth was there, just not the length. but im not the one who has to put the hard work into this, so whatever

[@rando7096]

Ayyy rubs lezgo

[@puimeton]

a jimmy video finally

[@TheLaxed]

Need to change this title to Jin was broken in 1 game stronger in another. Tekken 4, 5, 6, tag 2 dude was trash

[@DaAssMan]

IS THIS BBTAG FOR MY KZbinS?!?!?

[@SoapyMacTavish]

I miss Steve, he’s missing in T8

[@EraseTime]

I ❤ Soap. By the way Steve main since Tekken 4 🤭

[@Luigi777888]

1:00 goes hard on 360p

[@jthaprophet2323]

❤

[@michelangelo.6695]

why have I only heard about the special wind god fist, is this real? I've never seen anyone use it or even talk about it in the internet except for this video

[@blckmarvl5652]

And he still couldnt beat Law, Nina, Yoshi or Ling in that game.

[@RealKatTea]

@NovaSeiken How we feeling about this lmao

[@edc1022]

Electrics arent easy but yeah focus on it.

[@NaturalLogs]

Why was Jin having the devil Jin stance?

[@Sheenulus]

If you mean the stance at 1:49, Jin uses Devil Jin's stance at the end of the Tekken 8 story mode during one of the boss phases, the footage is likely a mod using that version of Jin in a practice setting.

[@NaturalLogs]

@ Jin uses the omen stance at the end of the story though which is the same as heihachi. But I agree with you, it must be a mod because devil Jin has a different fighting stance compared to Heihachi

[@justaway6901]

@@Sheenulus But why not just use the regular Jin? If the suppose point of that segment is to show how problematic that move even on T8 Jin, why use a mod?

[@nadir4774]

they don't even have to use mods either since jin can do electric wind god fist from b 1+2 in heat

[@-up7]

JIN KAZAMA

[@kinaestheticcritique]

"Laser canon is only -2 on block", for a video about how broken Jin is while also taking shots at other creators for not representing the truth of the move, you made the blunder of forgetting that laser canon is actually -10 on block when the defendant walks to the right, Rubbish. This is not esoteric, hidden knowledge, all you had to do was watch Tougeki to find a large amount of cases, here is an example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKPQl41tmaeGotUfeature=shared&t=2936 It is, quite literally, the first interaction during sdz's first Top 8 match, arguably the best known match in Tekken 4's short competitive history. Every single "competitive player" that had any trouble dealing with laser canon was, very simply, not a high level player. You also forgot to mention the utterly nasty iteration of Jin's standing [4] in the vanilla version of Tekken 6, which uses the same block animation as Bryan's [b+1], making it look positive on block, despite being -9 on block. This was abused in actual, real high level tournaments -mainly, the first season of Tekken Crash-, because, evidently, framedata was not as easily available as it is today, resulting in players outright giving away their pressure for free.