Why Dismissive Avoidants Rarely Apologize

[@mc2273CFU]

This is the video I've been waiting for!!! Thank you SO much Thais!

[@innerglows]

What's worse is saying a 'blanket' sorry but never taking accountability or giving an open heartfelt apology saying WHAT they are sorry for. Not just saying sorry to stop the uncomfortable situation.

[@jadint1793]

@@imm0rtalitypassi0n ive heard that before “not apologizing for shit” 😮‍💨 what can you do?

[@sunspiral79]

@@jadint1793 nothing sadly...thats part of the game they play. I like to believe that somewhere inside them they are aware...but I could be fooling myself

[@sashawiellette984]

@@jadint1793 That's when you smack them.

[@ruthr8990]

Maybe they cannot feel any emotions

[@smaimer4974]

@@ruthr8990solution but no instruction though…you know a really solid, far out stretched snd fast pulled back, back hand slap after enduring blocks of 10x dismissive snd abusive behavior from their side, really works wonders. People suddenly feel and realize they must have hurt you bad cause if you in 99% of the time are the most peaceful, loving and caring person, even the DAs check it.

[@MeAnINFP]

They have low awareness of how their behavior impacts others and can’t even see how they’re wrong, or if they do, feel defensive about doing anything about it. It’s somehow always the other person’s fault

[@PB-md3nt]

You are 1,000% correct.

[@myrafrancois6582]

The lack of self awareness coupled with the passive aggression and inability to communicate is exhausting. I’m tired. Married 17 years.

[@carissateixeira2028]

Are you talking about my fiancé? It’s so exhausting isn’t it. 😞

[@stickyslugs]

Same with APs. No one is winning here.

[@SaraX2024]

And if you say something, instead of reflecting, they go the coward way by saying, "Well, if you don't like me, why don't you leave?" Actually, it is a very good question to ask oneself after lots and lots of disrespect. I reflect on myself why, after healing from a malignant narcissist, I, once again, attracted an emotionally unavailable man. I didn't know much about attachments until my DA brought up that he was diagnosed as a DA in therapy. I give him chance after chance because he's in therapy and self-aware... but I think I've reached my limit. We put up a boundary that allows time and space for his healing journey, so that we do not enter a relationship... but he keeps crossing this boundary by pulling me closer and immediately pushing me away once I reciprocate that attempt which makes it all insincere. It wrecks my nervous system. Either I leave or I keep telling mysef that nothing he ever puts out there that insinuates intimacy or closeness is real. Makes him really look like a player!

[@TheGalilee416]

Was married to a DA for 20 years and it was exhausting. Zero accountability, responsibility and communication was impossible. Give them all the space they want by leaving.

[@sunspiral79]

20 years..Jesus..you should get an award of some kind. 5 months and I had enough

[@maratshaydullin57]

May I ask for an example of how it looked like, please? It's the first time I see a man who suffered in LTR with a DA and I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

[@ruthr8990]

Avoid the avoidant at all cost to save yourself

[@ruthr8990]

@@Ana-rb7wsyes that is what I did. Let there be distance: this is what I said

[@spiritwanderer777]

wow, idk how you lasted 20 years, jesus, I went insane after 2 and left feeling dead and unwanted inside. It's kind of funny because when I started friendship with my ex she said she hated herself (in general, even prior to knowing me) and I absolutely loved myself. Now I feel same self-hatred for staying in this bullshit for so long.

[@laurabeigh283]

I think its bc they already have the deep belief of not being good. Saying they are sorry affirms that they have failed and therefore are not good.

[@Aliciae411]

I think it’s that and many other things. For example, when someone tells me I’ve done something wrong or hurt them it comes as a shock to me. It’s hard to empathise and understand how what I have done has been hurtful, even though I can be hurt in the exact same way. I almost don’t realise that other people have feelings too and when I’m made aware I’ve hurt someone it does make me feel bad because I’ve hurt them and also because I didn’t realise when I was doing it. So the saying sorry wouldn’t even be genuine and feels wrong to say sorry for something I don’t even think I’ve done wrong. Saying sorry for a certain behaviour or action would also mean taking responsibility for that behaviour being wrong and therefore committing to changing in some way. Which as an avoidant we are very reluctant to do especially if we don’t actually feel like we’ve done something wrong or don’t even know how to change. The expectation of changing also puts a lot of pressure on a relationship which is really stressful for avoidants. It’s almost like “I didn’t intentionally hurt you so you have no reason to be hurt”. I know it’s not right but that’s how it feels to me. If I didn’t mean to do it then how can I be at fault… it feels like being punished just for being myself.

[@Pschool1]

@@Aliciae411 thats very helpful for you to share how the mind of one works

[@likelyivy1730]

@@Aliciae411​​⁠so basically you’re saying you’re the *real* victim even when you’ve victimized others because they had the audacity to try and bring the impact of your actions to your attention? You refuse to consider the other person’s feelings in your choices and then when they point out you’ve been inconsiderate poor poor you huh? Interesting.

[@likelyivy1730]

@@Aliciae411notice how you’re hyper concerned for your feelings while dismissing theirs? The energy you exert feeling sorry for yourself/victimizing yourself/feeling attacked/punished vs refusal to accept the objective fact that other people have feelings that matter just as much as yours is so selfish

[@Aliciae411]

@@likelyivy1730 i never said I refuse to accept that other people have feelings. I think my point was that I don’t even realise other people have those same feelings and when they point it out to me I do feel really bad about it because I wasn’t even aware. It’s like there’s no hope then. I can think I’m really close to someone and then it turns out I can’t even be myself or communicate or sympathise with them. I thought I was being close to them because minor things feel like a big deal. From my side something can feel really great but from the other persons perspective I’m not giving anything. So for them to bring this to my attention of course it’s hurtful to myself but I also hurt for that person because I never wanted them to feel bad because of me. It’s like if I can’t even be good enough with this perfect person then there’s no hope of being with anyone. I know it seems selfish but it’s not for lack of consideration. I really do think about others but I guess the way it’s translated means nothing 😂 Seems like you’re projecting your own experience of somebody on to me. I never suggested anywhere that I had victimised anyone or that I’m the victim.

[@twostepsbackwards4992]

Because saying sorry means admitting you’re wrong.. to yourself in the first place

[@katieandnick4113]

I think that, deep down, their fear of vulnerability prevents them from apologizing and from seeing any need to apologize to begin with. When we apologize to another person, we are putting ourselves in the position to either have that apology accepted or rejected. That’s too much vulnerability for a DA, who is very very anxious on the inside.

[@karennoyce7405]

I’m an FA I had a DA husband and mother and often wondered why they couldn’t apologise, I always thought it was because they had to be right all the time. I like the way u explain it, the video was good but u encapsulated it in a way the penny dropped. Thank u .

[@mgn1621]

Or, it’s an admission of having done something “wrong”, which triggers their insecurities

[@katieandnick4113]

@@mgn1621 I can see that too. So much of how they operate is about hiding themselves from themselves and from others. But it’s mostly about hiding from themselves. From my observations of my husband, who was DA but has grown more secure, they tend to think about themselves in very black and white terms. They can do this with people who are very close to them as well; essentially, with anyone who has the potential to hurt them. If they admit they have done something worthy of an apology, they’ll start to question if they’re actually a bad person, and they probably worry that you(their partner) will start to see them as a bad person. The further away(emotionally) someone is from them, the more easily they can see them as a whole person, and be accepting of their flaws without feeling the need to discard them. They can’t discard themselves, though I’d argue that they have discarded themselves long ago, in a metaphorical sense. So because they are stuck with themselves, or with who they think they are, they must protect the image of themselves in their minds at all costs. My husband has gotten quite good at apologizing, but it’s taken 15 years for him to get here. I’ve also noticed that, unless they are highly narcissistic(my husband isn’t, fortunately), they don’t really do many things that they should need to apologize for, if that makes sense. DAs who are low in narcissism treat their partners very well, until they have decided to leave the relationship. And even then, they try not to be mean about it. DAs low in narcissism are terrified of confrontation. Highly narcissistic DAs, who probably lean FA or even anxious, are a whole other story.

[@howtosober]

Lack of apology or accountability is an absolute dealbreaker for me, no matter the reason. Worst of all is the dismissive and condescending "I'm sorry you feel that way." The biggest thing I've learned from investing in attachment healing is that just because I understand why someone does something, even if it comes from a place of pain, it doesn't mean I have to accept those behaviors or stay in relationship with people who do them. I used to put up with everyone's bad behavior just because I had compassion for where it comes from. All it did was cost me years of my life. Now I love people from a distance and wish them well on their healing journey- a journey that needs to happen without me.

[@sunspiral79]

True..but there are also those that believe there is nothing wrong with their behavior..Its become who they are..what they do

[@GG17250]

Worst relationship I was in was with a hard core DA...never again, it almost destroyed me.

[@howtosober]

The cliche "Love means never having to say you're sorry" was created by a DA lol. Lack of apology or accountability is an absolute dealbreaker for me, no matter the reason. Worst of all is the dismissive and condescending "I'm sorry you feel that way." The biggest thing I've learned from investing in attachment healing is that just because I understand why someone does something, even if it comes from a place of pain, it doesn't mean I have to accept those behaviors or stay in relationship with people who do them. I used to put up with everyone's bad behavior just because I had compassion for where it comes from. All it did was cost me years of my life. Now I love people from a distance and wish them well on their healing journey- a journey that needs to happen without me.

[@thewatcher6388]

Yes..I so resonate and working on not getting hooked in toxicity through my compassion and desire/hope of a happy partnership

[@linnie14]

Actually..."Love means never having to say your sorry" was created by the writer of "Love Story"...:)

[@MakeAmericagreatAgainEVH]

❤❤❤

[@Steven-vb3ni]

I was in a relationship with a DA for 2 1/2 years. While I was very upset when she broke up in a text for no apparent reason and wrote that since she was breaking up there is no reason to ever communicate again. Although I was very depressed, now that four months have passed without communicating, I realize how bizarre each of her four breakups were and how lucky I am to be rid of her. I still love her very much but realize that she is way too unstable to satisfy me in a relationship.

[@dawncrawford9159]

DA’s have a deep fear of losing the relationship. They are masters at finding the most HURTFUL actions & words to cause the relationship to end, badly

[@jf1341]

amen brother. feel you, been there

[@thepuffin-ss9ln]

I feel you're pain. I was with a DA and I didn't even know what that was at the time. We were together five years, Three and a half were good, The last year and a half was the slow fade, Then ultimately ghosting me with very little explanation as to why we were over. I made an attempt to Sit down and discuss the problem and see if we could work it out, and it was met with silence. All she said to me is she was sorry, And sorry for everything. (Over text of course) I'm pretty sure I was discarded for somebody else. It's really Been a rancid, horrible thing to go through for me. I actually loved this person too. I know how you feel

[@ladyent3674]

Met a DA that apologizes all the time but the apologies are empty. They apologize so much that apologies began to come across as manipulation.

[@jocelynnoval7413]

Mine too.. he alaways apologized..🥺

[@Savage_Thinker]

same here

[@lolaweed7467]

Why should we be validating someone who cannot validate us? Who cares about attachment, bad behaviour is bad behaviour - sorry not sorry

[@karlsapp7134]

What a very anxious attachment thing to say. It’s bad behavior 😢

[@baberkhan7366]

​@@karlsapp7134it's not GOOD behavior

[@julzluvzdollz]

You learn to forgive without an apology for yourself. It crosses your boundaries you move on without them. That’s the secure thing to do. Forgive and release.

[@riyajacob2909]

​@@julzluvzdollz , Absolutely 🙏🏼🌸

[@_..-.._..-.._]

I understand what you mean, but it’s still a childish outlook. If you think tit-for-tat makes a relationship work, you’ll be disappointed for life.

[@vg6005]

If only the DA would understand that apologizing doesn't mean you are bad or wrong as a person, it just means you care about the other, and by apologizing you validate their hurt, wich helps them feel safe and trust.

[@originalmix2546]

yess 💯💯💛

[@fayebaker3378]

I'm an FA actively working on myself daily and my ex was DA. I would find myself constantly apologizing to him and the worst part was that he would then double down on me whilst I apologized. If I told him how something he said made me feel, rather than taking any responsibility he would claim "it is all your issues". I don't believe he apologized once in the year we were together and offered little to no praise/ compliments.

[@howtosober]

Same! OMG never again! Lack of apology or accountability is an absolute dealbreaker for me, no matter the reason. Worst of all is the dismissive and condescending "I'm sorry you feel that way." The biggest thing I've learned from investing in attachment healing is that just because I understand why someone does something, even if it comes from a place of pain, it doesn't mean I have to accept those behaviors or stay in relationship with people who do them. I used to put up with everyone's bad behavior just because I had compassion for where it comes from. All it did was cost me years of my life. Now I love people from a distance and wish them well on their healing journey- a journey that needs to happen without me.

[@prettymei_]

I thought I was crazy that my DA rarely apologize. He does, sometimes.

[@tahirabruce477]

Honestly I feel for DA’s cause as a FA leaning AP I have struggled with apologizing before but dealing with a DA that neverrrrr apologizes at all is so demotivating for the relationship. As much as we want to understand them and empathize it does so much to you emotionally constantly dealing with someone that’s not self aware enough to make changes without always being prompted, etc

[@stevensantora2976]

Exactly. I feel there is no point in communicating. I have the same attachement style as you.

[@miaduana]

That's a great neutral way to put it.

[@0Demiyah0]

I have gone through some crazy-making episodes with my DA (been dating him for 5 years), where I was at times really frustrated with his lack of verbal apologies for some major mistakes. When I did the work around this to undo my own storytelling what his reaction meant to me, and truly taking an objective seat going back to the situation and what I observed about him, I could tell he was actually very sorry. It would also typically be followed up with acts of service and little gifts to show he is sorry. I could see he was punishing himself internally. From the moment I could truly see that, it stopped affecting me whether he said so or not, because I knew he did feel an appropriate amount of remorse. It didn't continue to affect me and I was able to work with it. Overtime he got better at being emotionally communicative, because I became a safer and more calm person in response to his freeze/flight-reactions, so he stopped deactivating so frequently.

[@Heyu7her3]

She mentions all the time that this ONLY works with people who recognize their issues and want to change them.

[@howtosober]

Lack of apology or accountability is an absolute dealbreaker for me, no matter the reason. Worst of all is the dismissive and condescending "I'm sorry you feel that way." The biggest thing I've learned from investing in attachment healing is that just because I understand why someone does something, even if it comes from a place of pain, it doesn't mean I have to accept those behaviors or stay in relationship with people who do them. I used to put up with everyone's bad behavior just because I had compassion for where it comes from. All it did was cost me years of my life. Now I love people from a distance and wish them well on their healing journey- a journey that needs to happen without me.

[@skyspring7704]

How to make a DA in your own home: Ingredients: 1 child. 1. Expect the child to be a mini-me but with no embarrassing imperfection. 2. Use child as outlet for life frustrations. 3. sabotage child's efforts to bond with anyone but you. 4. treat emotions as misbehavior. 5. Whenever child is proven right about anything, accuse child of never admitting when he/she is wrong.

[@HeruGalacticEmissary]

That is absolutely brutal

[@valentine-p2r]

Sounds like dealing with a child rather than an equal partner

[@iamwabisabi3711]

10 years... He was BRUTAL, never apologized once.

[@GG17250]

My ex DA just could NEVER apologize...grow up!!

[@dianapassy]

I’ll say something as a person who has dated both anxious and avoidant people: avoidants expect their partners to solve their problems just as much as anxious do. Thais’ videos are great for understanding your way of thinking, but the scripts don’t really work if you don’t accept that you carry that expectation.

[@Heyu7her3]

Yes, she's mentioned that all of this only works when there's a recognition of the issue and a desire to change/ solve it. But that's true with therapy/ healing in general.

[@katieandnick4113]

Yes, I do believe that all men(not just DAs) are looking for some sort of mommy figure in their partners. Maybe the very very few men who had truly healthy relationships with their mothers don’t want it as much, but even they want it a little.

[@sif1083]

just 2 days ago i (AP) confronted a DA to apologize for infringing on his boundaries but also to state that he hurt me by ghosting me. I gave a pause for him to apologize but he just stood in silence...

[@HeruGalacticEmissary]

Oh gosh I didn’t give mine a chance to apologize and just said you’re not welcome in my life any longer because I learned that it’s absolutely futile expecting them to apologize.

[@chiaraA.]

For a DA it seems for us on the outside trying to look in, up is down, left is right, day is night, there is so much of their 'shadow' (to use a Jungian term) that is living out in the open but if you asked them, they would say (and vigorously believe) they are doing/living the opposite. The DA I knew said he doesn't' assume anything (truly assuming everything about me), he said he lived in the moment, not the future (when literally with the dissociating/zoning out, reliance on routine and predictability, the amount of NOT living in the moment was more than anyone I had ever encountered.) I could go on and on with example of this DA not knowing themselves. Sad, but to my point, anyone involved or trying to be in a relationship with a DA really has to overlook SO MUCH to just not get completely frustrated with the amount of self-denial this person lives in - truly I don't know how people stay to work inside these relationships you just have to be dedicated to being their therapist IMO.... not great

[@Pschool1]

You are so right, this has been my exact experience. They are not who they say they are and they dont even know or recognise it. My ex used to say he was a very loyal person, and while I dont believe he ever cheated on me, he was never loyal enough to our relationship, never loyal in caring or wanting to understand what his actions and words were doing to me, not loyal in wanting to do better, not loyal in allowing me to space or room to share my thoughts or feelings to him. DA's tend to say they are very laid back and easy going, but they are actually some of the most deliberate and intentional people I know.

[@bakeliteperformance]

It's good to hear this unpacked so specifically around apologies. My ex, a DA, has been unable to make any apology for dissolving our marriage and family. I have no desire to see her suffer, but the lack of accountability for the pain she has caused is, ultimately, the most intense pain of this whole experience. If she had showed remorse for wanting to end the marriage, gave an account of how things were not working for her, then I think in time my own capacity for empathy could have made the transition of our relationship bearable. However after 14 years of marriage the wall suddenly came down hard and it remained robustly guarded, with a minimally communicated desire to end things. I think I am owed more, as our relationship was decent throughout the marriage. In the end, what would bring me real peace, would be her showing some personal gesture of accountability for what she did.

[@niccoleyd8703]

I swear you just told my story. This is exactly what happened to me with my DA ex-husband. Married for 14 years, decent relationship, but he never took accountability and is still not. We're currently in the divorce process and it seems like he has no remorse at all. Our children have physically sat him down and told him how he's hurt them and all he can say is "that's fine, I'm sorry you feel that way".

[@ryanw903]

I am so curious to see how a DA would commit marriage to someone as that should trigger few of their core wounds on paper.

[@bakeliteperformance]

@@ryanw903 It's a good question. Part of it is that, I'd assume, being DA is on a spectrum, from mild to intense. So I think my ex-wife was likely more on the mild end. In the shakeout, during couples therapy, separation, and divorce, I did get some insight into how she saw things, but being a DA... it was always incomplete and a bit breadcrummy. In outline... she was 30 when we married and had spent her 20s being in many short term situationships. When we got engaged her friends commented on how she was famous for never being monogamous. At the time I had no notion of attachment theory and naively thought that I was "the one" that was so awesome that it broke her pattern. Previous relationships I had involved women that were likely a bit AA or FA... emotional rollercoasters. The process of dating, getting engaged, and several years of marriage with my ex was almost frictionless. The DA trait of wanting to avoid friction in the relationship gave a sense to me that we were soulmates. We really didn't have any big problems throughout our whole marriage. There were some communication problems, but not on a level that I ever felt to be alarmed by, instead seeing it as the inevitable reality that people aren't perfect. We were married for 14 years, had kids, got a house, careers, etc. But in counseling she explained how the whole marriage was a mistake, that when she was leaving her 20s she felt she needed to grow up and settle down, and she thought I would be great for that. In the end though, after 14 years, she wanted to live a non-monogamous life. She didn't want to be in relationships anymore, just relax, travel and have situationships. She was very much 47, going on 27. By the time our marriage was coming to an end I did know about attachment theory, I work in the mental health field, and I was trying to work with this in therapy. Her childhood background perfectly fit with how someone becomes a DA, and that her whole outlook on all of this also fell very neatly into DA traits. She DID NOT like to hear any of this, shut down, and the walls came up even higher. To me the whole thing is a vast tragedy. Her parents really did a number on her as a kid, and in the end those stressors won.

[@jamesd4267]

I walked away from the one who ALWAYS does this to me: Lures me in and quickly devalues me only after making me think she wants to be intimate. Shortly makes excuses and always the “not feeling well” or the “that sounds nice”, but never actually follows through. It’s exhausting. I’m always inviting and she never asks me to do anything. I couldn’t take it. She was always giving me a hard time for having needs and sharing things that show I need more connection. Eventually I stopped taking her excuses and decided to just stop and tell her I’m done. I want to feel valued and wanted. Period.

[@adoptioncorner1984]

Can totally relate, and my ex DA definitely didn't make me feel valued and wanted either. It's so heartbreaking.

[@jamesd4267]

@@adoptioncorner1984 horrible. Mine always says I’m playing the victim and really makes me feel I’m wrong for not taking the abuse. Total mind games.

[@linnie14]

EXACTLY. Thank you.

[@helsphoenix2623]

Can you speak to the other side of this, lack of saying "thank you" or giving compliments as a DA once they attach? I wonder if it comes from a place of feeling comfortable enough to drop the social norm mask, or if they are testing and trying to push you away, but it is something I've noticed in multiple relationships I've had over my life with people I see as DA's now. They may show up in other ways, but seem allergic to compliments past that initial honeymoon stage where they were free-flowing. It is so curious to me.

[@alexblainelayter7703]

I think approval and affirmation are generally hard ones, both ways. DAs often come from a space where positive modelling was missing. So receiving compliments feels genuinely uncomfortable and alien and because of that it does not really occur to a DA that someone else might enjoy receiving them and even have a need. Communicating that one has a need for affirmation may lead to feelings of resentment - it's a chore, a responsibility the DA never asked for and finds unnecessary. Receiving them is equally awkward and compliments are often deflected or questioned.

[@jimig399]

My ex-wife and mother of my kids is dismissive avoidant...and borderline personality. She precisely fits your description of dismissive avoidant. She does not apologize. She becomes distant and indignant when she should apologize. She does nothing or even goes on the offensive and becomes aggressive/combative. After a prolonged time has passed(sometimes days or even weeks) she will pop her head back in as if nothing ever happened and expect everything is all back as it was. It's the most toxic thing I've ever experienced. I'm a thoughtful, mindful, considerate, apologetic man and I don't appreciate or understand the way she handles herself. I also don't appreciate that she will do nothing to make this difficult pattern of behavior easier to deal with for those closest to her. She recently had a health scare and had to go to the hospital for some in depth, invasive testing. She was understandably afraid and wanted someone to be there with her. But no one wanted to be. Everyone had an excuse for her and could not be there. So she called me. And I didn't want to go either. You mentioned people having expectations of them but you said nothing of their expectations of others. She expected her kids or her husband to be there for her at the hospital during her time of need. But she had never been there for any of us when we needed her to be there. And she really didn't understand why none of us wanted to be there with her and went on the attack, attempting to guilt and shame each of us for our unwillingness to do something for her that she had flat refused to do for each of us many times over. It's frustrating. It's extremely frustrating being involved with this type of person. There is no rhyme or reason to anything she does.

[@Leoo117]

I'd say the reason is that is what she was taught by her mother's example. She was taught to fear vulnerability and avoid it, so thats why it feels uncomfortable to her. Basically, her parents didn't show her love, so she does not know how to show it to others. The solution is to show them love with your own example, whether they show you love or not. There HAS to be boundaries involved though, because that is part of love. If you can spare time, then help out, but if you cannot, then take care of your business first. Also, do not help if she shows bad behavior. Walking away during someone's bad behavior, no matter the situation is a part of showing love too. It teaches them that bad behavior is not ok. This is good if you are ok with her being a platonic buddy. If you want her back as your romantic partner, then you'll have to let her know you aren't interested in friendship and to call you when she wants romance. Otherwise, there is no need to ever associate with her.

[@jimig399]

@@Leoo117 yeah, her mother was a real piece of work. I'd say your assessment is accurate. Large Hispanic family and not very emotionally intelligent or supportive. When you have a household of 14 kids and only 2 adults some of those kids end up playing parent and I'm sure there was a neglect that they each suffered as a result. With one parent always away working and one parent tending to 14 offspring there had to be needs that went unmet. Just thinking about how hectic the vibe must have been with 14 kids feels like a traumatic experience. Irresponsible parenting really to have that many kids and raising them in poverty they way they did. They are all high functioning, mentally ill, professional types with doubles standards and carefully kept addictions and secrets. Educators no less. I think at least 3 of them were anti social personality. Those 3 are now dead. They died before 50. Heavy addiction. Lots of stress, lies, addictions, secrets, affairs, scandals, criminal behavior and drama. My wife is following them down the same road of addiction and apathy. It's amazing what people will hide about themselves to keep their job. I can't and won't live a lie. Theres no going back. She respects no boundaries. Too volatile. Not to mention unfaithful and disloyal. Sex is the only part that ever worked. Not so much now at 56. I can do better. I think it's time I do. Thanks for the validation. Sorry for whatever you suffered that brought about your familiarity on this subject.

[@MakeAmericagreatAgainEVH]

My husband has been like that for 20 years. It sounds just like him. It’s validating and crazy, making and abusive and you can’t keep treating people like that over and over. That is stuck with you that you should see by now that they are safe but you put your own walls up to protect yourself and you’d rather do that and hurt them. It’s sick.

[@ttinkers1062]

Mine says “sorry for your pain”. Never takes responsibility for hurting anyone.

[@spiritwanderer777]

mine said "sorry to hear that you feel that way" 😂

[@ttinkers1062]

@@spiritwanderer777that's a good one too. It's. nice to know I'm not alone.

[@HeruGalacticEmissary]

lol what a load of politically correct BS

[@HH-pj5bl]

Fear can definitely be hard to conquer but we need to be aware of it and really face it, it can be changed we just need ti want to change. Like this week i had to face my fear of being vulnerable, even writing the question out to ask thais on her live webinar was hard but i want to change my avoidance pattern so i did it and it felt much better, practice small bits at a time it doesnt have to be big things to share if saying the apology straight out is hard, start with the awareness, im aware what i did or said was not so nice. Face your own fears its important. And like Thais says knowing our actions and words does affect the loved one, Thank you for another aweosme video thais, love ya❤

[@moved5272]

Thank you for trying and taking responsibility. You are on the right track. 🍀 Good Luck

[@aaronjay606]

Great job on getting started/attempting to change! Change is S C A R Y for sure, but here you are giving it a shot knowing it’ll be for the best. Give yourself some acknowledgment, and be proud. Best of luck on your journey 🙏🏼

[@dustinquinton]

Basically, I thought my DA ex wife didn’t care. Period. That was a big reason for divorce.

[@konvict451]

How can you have an open dialog when they run from everything....

[@ruthr8990]

You run faster toward the other direction until you cannot be seen by them and then they will run toward you😂. I said to my da “no more talking “ when he ran back to me. He had plenty of chances and there are plenty of men in the world other than him, last time I checked😂😂

[@Flayora]

Exhausting

[@flagirl0315]

I know all attachment styles that are insecure have their things, but dismissives seem to be the worst most negative traits. It’s a step away from being a narcissist. The reason doesn’t really matter. It’s damaging and not productive to a healthy relationship

[@maratshaydullin57]

Hmm... Funny enough, both AvAts and AnxAts can be squeezed into the definition of narcissism. Anxiously-attached need constant reassurance of admiration. Avoidantly-attached would never deliver the same level of love-bombing they provided early in the relationship. Whatever... In my opinion, the key criterion for narcissism is about bending and shaping other people for the Narc's needs.

[@ty816]

This makes sense - i've called my ex out so many times for wronging me in the past 3 years, and i've never heard her use the word sorry once. Feels like some weight off the shoulder.

[@thehapagirl92]

2:13 I have always known a fear of vulnerability drives DAs to push you away forever and never even apologize when they’re clearly at fault. It’s unfortunate when that DA was someone you considered a friend.

[@truthsmiles]

My DA ex would say “Sorry” constantly, but what I eventually figured out was that she didn’t mean it at all… To me, saying sorry means: “I understand how my words/actions hurt you, I take responsibility, and I will try not to do the same in the future” To her, it meant “I can see you’re unhappy and I just want this conflict to go away as quickly as possible, so I’m going to say this word that seems to work sometimes”

[@TheAlexcristian21]

My ex DA, she said she wanted babies, marriage but we were stuck at our house. She wanted to move frome her house and pressed me to buy one. When she saw that I'm more on love and us more, she backed away. I m afraid DA has only interests in people. They stay with you if they gain something, otherwise throw you like some socks. Please DA find help and don't cause more pain in society 😔

[@Ana-rb7ws]

Women in general need a lot of security though in relationships, which includes a safe place to live and raise kids. Women’s need for safety is much, much higher than men. Having said that, I of course do not know the specific circumstances of the situation you just spoke of, so I’m not saying anything about either you or your ex. But I did want to point that out. Women, in general, need a lot of security, which does include financial/practical security. Some men tend to think that that’s loving the man for their resources, whereas it’s really about the woman needing safety in order to feel her best and give her love in an uninhibited way to her husband. Hope maybe that added a little insight into women for you. If not, I apologize for bothering.

[@TheAlexcristian21]

@Ana Thank you Ana for pointing out. But our circumstances taken together don't add up only to home safety. It was one problem. But what I want to specific clear is the way she reacted is like if I don't provide a home she is not staying with me although solutions could be found if there is also love involved. Would you choose a partner soly if he buys you a house otherwise you dump him? I see it like manipulation and intrest. And she was very cold in the relationship and no compromise from their part.

[@_..-.._..-.._]

Sorey 😂 TG is the best!

[@thelovely961]

Even when I started healing & working on myself; trying to communicate better.. we still hit a brick wall and I still felt very triggered by him.

[@jacopofbargellini4005]

so interesting and at the same time so disturbing to know

[@seapeajones]

I thank God i had a buddy model apoligies to me. He made it a point to apologize immediately. I don't always succeed, but good God it was like a revelation that there was never a need for perfection & have it build up into this overwhelming thing. The guilt and self loathing isn't helping anyone!

[@vg6005]

Owning one's shit, as someone put it, is sooo vital. If you don't own your stuff, your stuff will own you. You have to own it first, in order to be able to let go of it. Apologizing and taking responsibility for ones behaviour, is one way to own it, and it can have a tremendous inpact on the relationship.

[@sherriflemming3218]

Accepting ownership is emotional maturity.

[@DanielleBaylor]

This is very enlightening. Even though I already know most of this, I don't have the knowledge or vocabulary to express this. I've tried, but unfortunately it just leads to more arguments and this like force

[@wendydaniel1110]

If DA's can't say sorry then they have no desire to repair anything between you and the other. They should be left on their own to feel " sorry" for themselves.

[@mgn1621]

I think they have a lot of shame

[@alllscination]

I really like how you differenciated between different ways of 'being responsible': holding someone responsible for emotions - co-dependency and being responsibe of how we act, being mindful of our impact on others - inter-dependency. I think holding ourselves and others responsible for each others emotions (codependence) which usually comes with making assumptions about the others intent (you make me feel hurt because you want to hurt me) is just the other side of the coin of counter-depence. It is not actually truly responsible behaviour. I would love a video on the topic of what being responsible truly means. I'm familiar with the differenciation of being responsible for emotions vs. being responsible for our actions through Nonviolent Communication but I've noticed that in everyday life people rarely seem aware of that distinction. I think education on that topic would be very helpful for many people. As well as a video on feeling statements which I'm familiar with through NVC as well. How to recognize true feeling statements and see through thoughts dressed up as feelings. Most sentences that start with 'I feel' are usually expressing thoughts not feelings. For example "I feel betrayed." That expresses a thought. I think someone is betraying me. That thought is obscuring the actual feelings of the speaker which may be sadness, anger, helplessness, loneliness...

[@lesleykrone8257]

Brilliant comments . Thank you all so much .

[@roshalllambert]

I loved the point about fear of vulnerability which was very apt!

[@kalifornia4745]

I would love someone to explain this to me!! I was just in a relationship with a DA with narcissistic tendencies. So, she actually could be vulnerable! Not so much about the relationship, but about her life. But then if I needed empathy, it was, “I’m not responsible for your feelings!” However, she LOVED when I took care of her in allll the ways. Also, plenty of blame shifting and gaslighting. So, is she a DA or a covert narcissistic? I have no idea.

[@aidanoliver8209]

Same

[@MakeAmericagreatAgainEVH]

I’ve been with mine for 20 agonizing long years, and I say he is absolutely either a covert narcissist, or a really, really damaged dismissive avoidant with narcissistic tendencies

[@HeruGalacticEmissary]

My experience was similar, loved having me offer a shoulder to cry on and had no problems getting vulnerable about other people/issues. And would devalue me the second after, like I’m just there to be the designated emotional comfort pillow and once they’re done. They go back to being insensitive, avoidant, uncaring POS

[@cv-edf1023]

@@HeruGalacticEmissary Exactly the same with mine…never again!

[@dkdoodle]

Open dialogue with a DA lol. Good luck.

[@spiritwanderer777]

yeah ikr, learning Chinese woule be easier...

[@Dan-u1o]

Are dismissive avoidants narcissists?

[@kimberlyhovis5864]

No, not all of them. DAs without the narcissism aren't controlling, aren't trying to keep you isolated from family and friends, and have different reasons and intentions for their behaviors.

[@stevensantora2976]

Thank you so much.

[@justinrivera1618]

I swear the perfect person is somebody with my attachment style, and the similar level of self-awareness. The amount of stress caused by other people emotionally dumping is mind-boggling.

[@miaduana]

What attachment style is that?

[@DanielleBaylor]

I feel like this. Honestly, I'd feel better with someone more like me. Like I already knew my attachment style before having the vocabulary for it. I feel like it'd be way more peaceful.

[@melvaughn29]

The DA I knew...or he was avoidant 100% (not sure about dismissive) but SUPER avoidant, and he apologized a lot! Whether it was sincere, who knows, but I got a lot of apologies out of him!

[@MeAnINFP]

Did the behavior change though is the real question. Keep saying sorry while continuing to do the same thing isn’t a real apology

[@ChangePointCounselling-pu3tm]

Insight from DAs appreciated. At the workplace, does the "no expectations" also apply to workers eg if one was the supervisor?

[@MakeAmericagreatAgainEVH]

I wondered the same thing they don’t like expectations but yet at work that’s all they have is expectations from their superior or their boss make it make sense

[@TheAlexcristian21]

Please, if you have some answers. Why DA erase everything in just some hours? Every plan, feeling, memories, everything. They pretend love or do they love you but dont know how to express verbaly or phisicaly?😢

[@gregorystinette8271]

Yeah, I'm not "sorry " for being not sorry, but my dog doesn't mind. Shalom

[@ihssmr5260]

He ghosted me for 2 months then he texted me 2 weeks ago and I didn't reply,I just wanna know what is he feeling right now 💀

[@mattt6871]

Currently in a serious relationship with what I know now to be a DA I am myself knowing I am AA. AND STRUGGLING TO UNDERSTAND HER. GO TO RESPONSES SHUTTING DOWN DIFFICULTY AND SAYING SORRY. It’s channel is helped a lot just navigate how to move forward with her so we both can have a meaning for long lasting relationship.

[@TheAlexcristian21]

I have been in a relationship with a DA me, as anxious to secure attachment and i want to say that it is the worst experience ever. Sorry for DA but the inability to verbalize the needs ,wants and the covert attitude is overwhelming. Silent treatment, gaslighting, stonewalling etc only because i express my needs. DA wants to hang out by themselfs, flirt, stay on social media, no sex and i shoud cook, housework and understand her. DA are the worst, and most painful attachment style to brake up. They dont want treatment and how they deactivate in some hours from love of they lifes to a stranger is incredible. I understand their trauma but is not ouw fault to feel the pain too from them as partners.😢

[@sunspiral79]

Exactly...I just ended five months or torture with one. Her dating profile said she was looking for marriage...lol...Yeah right..I asked for commitment and she detached and ran away four months in..was never the same after. And the covert life...I could not get this woman to tell me what year she was born..it was a secret with her..Like WTF

[@TheAlexcristian21]

@Trevor B my ex DA, she said she wanted babies, marriage but we were stuck at our house. She wanted to move frome her house and pressed me to buy one. When she saw that I'm more on love and us more, she backed away. I m afraid DA has only interests in people. They stay with you if they gain something, otherwise throw you like some socks. Please DA find help and don't cause more pain in society 😔

[@adoptioncorner1984]

You just described the situation with my DA ex to a tee. Stayed on social media flirting with other women. Cut the sex off after one year of a 3 year relationship. They just completely leave you devastated and confused and hurt. It's the most painful situation I have had in my life.

[@adoptioncorner1984]

​@Sunbeam that wall comes up pretty fast and I remember telling my ex he had a wall up and he said I need to go around the wall.

[@adoptioncorner1984]

@@sunbeam9222 thank you

[@dianaschramer5065]

I'm finished with participating in relationships with people who are unwilling to heal and grow. Period.

[@Michelle-qq4sd]

Wish you would publish a book. I’m more of a book person - than a video or audio person. 😊

[@Ari.StarFire]

Thais published a book called Attachment Theory

[@Ari.StarFire]

It's a basic summary on attachment theory. Her videos and school offer much more depth

[@ryanw903]

It will be a series of 20 books for her content 😂😂

[@agneag]

How is it not possible to be not scared of vulnerability where we still live in the world where u get ridiculed for being yourself constantly?

[@MrBigphil33]

I just signed up to the personal development school is there an app I can use to access while I'm at work or on the go though out the day

[@RitaP41]

More reasons not to date them.

[@hunnyb1308]

FACTS!!!

[@_..-.._..-.._]

Yeah, better to just write off huge swaths of people based on one part of their personality. Too many people think Attachment Style is everything, there are secure people who are jerks and DA’s that are sweethearts. This is like not dating someone because they like sushi and you don’t. Personality matters, people.

[@Bornie1977]

@@_..-.._..-.._ What you say is totally true. Many DAs are wonderful people, but we must be clear about this: they are not able to help building a solid long-term relationship with anyone that may want to have a "reasonable" emotional link with his/her partner. Only low-level DAs (and/or if they are really wanting to change their attachment style), and whose partner is an extraordinary secure & patient person, may have a real chance to be successful in the quest of an emotionally rich relationship without major drama.

[@aaronjay606]

@@Bornie1977 that requieres way too much patience lol

[@mgn1621]

@@_..-.._..-.._ DA’s write off people very easily!

[@mattt6871]

Thanks!

[@0Demiyah0]

I might have a radical approach to self-work for a lot of people, but I did make it through the Power Struggle phase with my DA and I healed in this relationship from FA to SA. So, I don't often relate to all the angry and resentful comments under Thais videos. I don't think a relationship with an unaware DA needs to be wounding, as it isn't my experience. To move to today's topic - my DA is also not great at offering an apology. For the small things that aren't too confronting, like arriving late, he will say he's sorry. For times he leans on me a lot and feels like a burden, he will say he is sorry for bothering me. For times where he was just being an inconsiderate DA and made a mistake that fired my FA-attachment style up in ways he didn't anticipate, he goes into freeze/flight-mode and will not be able to offer an apology. In these latter scenarios where I was no longer in control of how wounded I felt in reaction to him, and really believed he owed me the apology, these were difficult experiences to sympathize with him. I would be angry and resentful towards his inability to give an effective verbal apology. What I did is the only thing you can reasonably do in this situation when you do love your partner - take accountability and responsibility of my own emotional reactions (since I do know that emotional volatility in response to stress events is still a me-issue) and do the work to self-regulate, untangle the storytelling and meaning-giving I have around the situation, take an observant role to reflect back on the situation and his reaction. In human communication words are only 7%, intonation is 38% and body language is 55%. I realized that although I was hyperfocused on the absent words, his body language spoke VOLUMES. His body language was full of remorse, fear, self-criticism, sadness. Typically after such mistakes he would do more acts of service and giving little gifts to show his feelings, rather than tell them. Once this clicked about him, his body language and intonation became more important to me than the actual words of an apology. I just need to know someone is genuinely sorry, and while words can lie, bodylanguage doesn't. So, reading my DA's bodylanguage became enough of an apology to me.

[@lisa4cohen]

If I may .. boldly say.. DA’s showing and admitting sorry.. yea hard and rare. BUT and im not throwing shade .. DA’s r known ( I’ve experienced ) to display passive aggressive behavior which they don’t seem to struggle with .. revenge feeling type of behavior .. not changing the subject but it’s the other side 😳

[@you-vi2tm]

My DA leaning partner said he doesn't want to apologize because it would mean he should be a different person and not himself. I can see often that he thinks he "is" what he does. So I guess it goes to the expectation part. He wants me to expect him to be himself and that's why he should not apologize what he does because that's who he is.. I said, noo you can just apologize that you talked mean to me and it does not mean at all that there is something wrong with you as a person.

[@pykem.liemora]

Does apologizing to a DA might make them discard you ?

[@hunnyb1308]

DA's seem to have some Narc traits. That's just my take on it.

[@katieandnick4113]

I believe that DAs are actually sociopaths, and I’m not referring to those who are obviously cruel and uncaring. When you consider that all a sociopath really is is someone who has no true self/ego, and not necessarily someone who tries to hurt other people, it makes sense. Sociopaths don’t consciously hurt people; it’s a byproduct of their complete lack of real insight, which is accompanied by a complete lack of understanding of other people. Sociopaths can be very high in narcissism or quite low; I think true DAs tend to be on the lower side, and that when a sociopath is very narcissistic, they probably have more of an anxious attachment style.

[@sheliasmith2884]

They do mine was he had narcissistic traits a 100%avodent but I saw the traits have studied it for a long time it's just best to leave these people alone if they don't do the work you are just signing up for hurt and I did.

[@BigHugsFromHell]

My avoidant friend indeed never says sorry. She says, "I know," or, "I remember." It isn't sarcastic. When something is pointed out she never argues or tries to twist things, never reshapes the past if I am being accurate, but seems to have a refreshingly good memory. With almost a resigned tone she simply affirms the statement, then looks off into space waiting for the next step in what I have to say about it, sometimes with her lower lip quivering like holding back a cry. The last one was she was having an avoidant day, but I had been planning to give her a new vacuum she needed for weeks, and ignoring my texts it wound up being left outside all day and stolen, just as an example. And it actually kinda works on me. I tend to stop being mad almost immediately like it's better than a sorry. I wonder to see if she will address the points in action, and these days usually she at least tries, but I often feel like she's sorry enough even when she hasn't said it.

[@AXC629]

Lots of people don't apologize. I just figure they're too stupid to know what they did was wrong. 🤭

[@alisonfisher1877]

There have been times when I (an FA) expressed that I was hurt by something my partner (a DA) did and I needed an apology or even just acknowledgement of my feelings. Instead of saying sorry he became resentful and would say I was basically just telling him “to go stand in the corner.” He thought that if I was expressing my hurt feelings and asking him to respond, it was somehow a form of unjust punishment. Other times he will automatically apologize without even knowing what for exactly in order to head off any conflict and avoid intimacy that is gained through the desire to understand. I’m so confused about this. He doesn’t do this first thing so much anymore (the second thing he still does) and there’s been improvement with how I express hurt and how he reacts, but he isn’t really able to articulate anything about how or why he used to respond. I just really want to understand. Anyone have any ideas?

[@dkdoodle]

Go stand in a corner, wonder if he did that a lot as a child and was projecting that onto the present day situation. Sounds like a child’s memory and he thought you were the mean parent or caregiver.

[@alisonfisher1877]

@@dkdoodle yeah I thought so too at first, but he was a pretty straight-laced kid and he never was punished. Not overtly, I mean. He told me about one time he had an angry outburst and broke a lamp accidentally. His parents came home later and asked about it, he sort of flippantly told them he did it, and then everyone just kind of shrugged it off. It’s totally alien compared to my upbringing, I would have been in a panic about my mom finding out and all the wrath that would follow.

[@siobhan2414]

I say sorry when I’m genuinely sorry.. I won’t say it for the sake of it.. if I’m sorry I’ll tell you..

[@richardbicycle5262]

uh oh, cue the tiktok psychologists in the comments waiving their invisible DSMs around! You'd think "narcissists" and "abusers" were lurking around every corner just waiting to getchya. Just entirely missing the point of her consistently helpful info, falling prey once again to the, far less rigorous or honorable, chronic victimhood mind virus sweeping the collective. Love your stuff Thais, keep it up!

[@jessklay8594]

I’m gonna guess bc they are a narcissist?? My bf is dismissive avoidant... but I recently found out he’s a narcissist ugh

[@looneyg25]

People always talk bad about dismissive avoidants and like Thais said, they are so misunderstood and they are! They deserve love just like anyone else but the thing I realized with my dismissive avoidant is that he was truly a bad person and I just kept making excuses for him. I believed alcohol was what made him a bad person but the reality is that even after he stopped drinking he continued to be a bad person. Lesson of the story, determine whether your dismissive avoidant is a good hearted person or a bad hearted one. When theyre the bad ones, its just better to wish them well and walk away. You cannot excuse bad behaviour, lying, or manipulation from anyone. Take people for who they really are and learn how to love yourself cus loving yourself will always win in any situation, good or bad.

[@josephrodgers3671]

Fu## all dismissive avoidance,its a one way street there way there feeling, they don't care about nobody.

[@sammyott5288]

The one I would received was, sorry but you did this….. deflecting responsibility, to me

[@SacredOm369]

Can you tell this to my ex

[@amarachistreams2983]

He always apologize to me. If they're not apologizing, it means they never loved you. Don't make excuses for bad behavior

[@tuca3434]

The second reason is completely invalid for me. There's a line between causation and responsability. You dont dismiss the ethical implications of a narcissist's actions because their childhood was extremely emotionally neglectful. Not saying dismissive avoidants are narcissists (they are not most of the time) but in the same reasoning, you can't validate avoidant's bad behaviour because they had a certain childhood. Saying it's ok for them to have unethical behaviours because that's how they were conditioned or raised, absolves them of the responsability of actually being pretty arrogant, self centered, neglectful and condescending (not always but alot of the time). There are alot of things wrong with anxious attachment aswell, but at least they can take the responsability and the accountability to change or even realize they are in the wrong. What i'm saying is that just because the reason as to why something happens is very clear and objective, it doesn't mean the thing should be happening or that suddenly it's ok. It's ok to have subconscious patterns that are out of your control, but it's NOT ok to refuse to see your social responsability as a member of a society, and keep those patterns that might be hurting others. Let's not normalize people being like this.

[@miaduana]

It's more of an explanation than an excuse.

[@Pschool1]

She explaining it to us, she didn't say the behaviour and impact on others is okay.

[@tuca3434]

@@miaduana Thats debatable. Yes, the format of the video is intending for it to be a justification, but the whole tone of this video, and in all DA related ones (from this channel), is meant to make the DA look like a victim of their own patterns. It indirectly sends the message its anything short of betraying yourself to seek a relationship with these people and it's ok for DAs to be like this because they are in pain, which is illogical. At the end of the day, as a relationship advisor, Thais should not be neutral about influencing people to seek relationships with emotionally unavailable people. It is a very rare thing to find one willing to do the work. Maybe a brief disclosure at the end of the video could help people understand that it's not a handful of DAs that aren't ready for a relationship, it's a handful that are, because all this "justification" can very easily be interpreted as an "excuse".

[@MakeAmericagreatAgainEVH]

YES!!!

[@IanRoyball128]

Best show best best best best bestttt showww evah!! Best show!! Best best best best best best best showww evah!! Evah!!

[@Danielle-t7t]

I think my boyfriend might be Dismissive Avoidant He exhibits most of the signs However he can says sorry say it all the time Almost too much and he has been in a long-term relationship Could he still be dismissive avoidance ❤

[@julienaklei]

Perhaps its okay if they are mildly avoidant but otherwise I think you should be careful to avoid relationships with them..... why do that to yourself?

[@codygriffiths2123]

Lmao, love your videos!

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Thanks Cody :)

[@professorlayabout4878]

Can’t show weakness. Sorry, not sorry.

[@baberkhan7366]

Oh they (avoidants) are definately going to be sorry at some point.. and they will implode when they can't even identify the emotion or let it out.

[@tequilabumbum4373]

@@baberkhan7366 yeah they are sorry when you are finally gone

[@baberkhan7366]

@@tequilabumbum4373 sadly, no.. it takes a LONG time for them to begin to miss someone or regret losing them and even then they just suppress those feelings immediately

[@sheliasmith2884]

Yea they will be sorry when they mess with the wrong person you have to be careful these days with people's feelings.

[@tequilabumbum4373]

@@baberkhan7366 yep, it took my DA almost a year 😅 but he was really sorry and had been working on himself in the meantime, while I was keeping no contact. He realised that he had to admit to himself and me that he has not been treating me well and has lied multiple times. Long story short, after a trial period of 3-4 months, I decided to give him a second chance, and I must say that he is a different guy… He is in therapy twice a week, and our relationship has never been better. I know people demonise DAs, I do too for some things, but they are capable of change when they really want to! They are sensitive and good people(not all of the ofc), under all that tough exterior.

[@ng-marc]

❤🥂🎯

[@ericablaschke3497]

Because their narcissistic

[@jonnawoodard3432]

She speaks so fast...runs too many words together, hard to listen to