Review | Dien Bien Phu | Legion Wargames | The Players' Aid

Dien Bien Phu: The Final Gamble 2nd edition is the third of our shelf of shame dust off titles for 2024, where we're going back and playing and reviewing famous, even classic titles that might not be hottest off the press. This Kim Kanger design covering the siege of Dien Bien Phu airfield during the French-Indochina war has a lot going on and is a blast to play if you have the time.
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[@savethefunk]

Kim deserves a lot of praise for the way he has been supporting the game for years upon years of constant rules update and clarification he keeps pushing out.

[@kimkanger9752]

Thanks. There are some criticism why the rules ar not perfectly phrased as printed in the box. I wish there were, and it is indeed my goal that they are. I pride myself that the only errata is that "dice" was written as "die" at one place. So, the living rules are just me tuning words and sentences into perfection in order to maximise clarity. Unfortunately, some then regard the printed rules as increasingly imperfect the more I support the living rules. A sort of backward way of viewing the free service that I offer.

[@maxwellsilver6032]

...sounds and looks cool. I enjoy a crunchy game but I dont want use a proverbial slide rule for every aspect of the game. The flow becomes sluggish and you start to break teeth on too much crunchiness. To each his own I suppose. Always like your vids lads.

[@penchant4]

Fall's book on the battle was titled "Hell in a Very Small Place" for a reason.

[@clockmonkey]

There's an ASL (Squad Leader) Campaign game that covers some of the Fighting at Dien Bien Phu. Haven't played the Campaign Game but did do all of the Tactical Scenarios. It sort of OK, but it feels like WW II without the Tanks and more Trenches and Barbed wire. Interesting but to get through it you need to be familiar with the telephone book sized rules. Its another Dien Bien Phu game if you want to play them all but my guess is you might not enjoy it. Great review though of a lovely looking game I'd have played forever when started war gaming and loved Solitaire games for some reason.

[@richarddinsdale6722]

The combatants were pretty much using WW2 technology and advisers from all major WW2 participants in this battle. From the background reading, the battle won by one side being braver and more stubborn than the opposition and the French side (and allies) was very stubborn and brave in this battle

[@richard-mtl]

I've never played a hex and counter (I'm the local COIN guy), largely because I've never been attracted to the aesthetics of them, the graphic design (the NATO symbology really turns me off!). But I saw some photos of this and though "Huh, this looks good, it could become my first H&C game!". So I was very glad to see this review pop up on my feed, but... you've scared me off, with the length and the complexity. I can't leave a game for that long on my kitchen table unfortunately (playing solo), and the complexity isn't something I'm used to, so, yeah. Thanks for the review, I'll keep it mind for a future time when I've had more experience with H&C games and CRTs etc.

[@Roy-rm6jj]

Thank you for this. Legion puts out some darn good games. Always been interested in this battle since GDW's Citadel game. (1977) This one is awaiting CPO and is on my list for a must buy. Thanks for the all the high points of this game. 💯

[@charleslatora5750]

I went with white dog games, The Lost Valley, The siege of Dien Bien Phu. its solitaire, State of Siege game. Great video. As always.

[@Hennessee-Jed]

That’s a good game - less granular and *very* difficult to win.

[@iacoposeverini6053]

Finally 😂

[@strelnikoff1632]

I am one of those who’ve been urging you to give this game a try. I feel like I know you guys pretty good and was sure you’d like it. I had to watch your review as soon as I saw it come across the wire. Even though it sounds like you only played a couple of turns, I applaud you as you realized the excellent features of the game straight away….and also the few areas that could have been improved (though I’ve played so many solo games, I’d long forgotten them.) The rather convoluted CRT mechanics I recall having to read them and reread several times before finally coming to grips with them. The setup chart was a real conundrum to figure out as well. Trench zone demarcation has to be studied very closely as you suggested. Still, as you summarized, none of those issues stop me from making this one of my very favorite war games. One of the key things for me (as a self appointed “expert” on this battle, one I’ve studied closely over a number of years) it scratches the itch of being such a good historical simulation of the actual battle. Lastly, kudos to Kim Kanger for being such a dedicated online supporter for questions of this and his other games over the years. His game “Tonkin” also published by Legion is a very fine game covering the entire French War in North Vietnam.

[@AR15UserRev1]

One of my favorite games in the last few years, but I also love Silver Bayonet so maybe I just like flow charts

[@ThePlayersAid]

No, but honestly, Silver Bayonet is an EXCELLENT game, for all those same reasons. I love the structure of that game and the options it provides you.

[@latthawaseepadcha1155]

Dear Both, you really deserve a great acknowledgment for your presentation as clearer as this complex game allows to. You made me laugh though as you were both divided to say o one hand, this is a great game as it embraces the real struggle both armies had in this siege: From the French side the clue was the poor artillery given as the presemptuous Colonel Pegot assuming he had enough to deal with these little Viets, low level of defence wrt. shelters, tons of shells poured out on the most advanced positions AND Pegot’s in first days resulting in poor communication with the French artillery targets, low level of efficacy of French aviation, and mostly the supply chain resulting of poor defence of airfields etc… From the Viet side, the clue was the morale drop as thousands were dying during repeated assaults, ammunition supply, etc.. On the other hand, you tried to describe the complexity of the calculation of modifiers and artillery bombardments back and forth without criticise the game too much. A big thank you again. I would really like to see this game with simpler rules of engagements!

[@ThePlayersAid]

Yeah, if the tactical aspect of it could be streamlined you'd have both a faster, and better game.

[@coyi51]

Enjoyed the run through of the game not sure why I do not have it as I always champion Legion games, do own Storm Over DBP. Very enjoyable, Many Thanks Gentlemen.