Is Fructose Driving Metabolic Disease? | Dr Richard Johnson | The Proof Podcast EP 215

[@murraybrockway6540]

Joel Fuhrman, MD with his Nutritarian Diet and Mastering Diabetes by Cyrus Khambatta and Robbie Barbaro both have plans for losing weight on high carbohydrate diets. Mastering Diabetes does it by restricting fats to 30 grams per day. Dr Fuhrman's Nutritarian Diet does it by lowering calorie density. Both Whole Food Plant Based diets.

[@educational-101]

I'm still currently going through the episode but wanted to reach out to Simon. Simon, you have an amazing way of bringing complicated topics (that go off into technical jargon1) back into digestible bite sizes for all to understand. You're truly an amazing host.

[@darrelllf851]

That was fantastic! I actually saw Richard on another podcast recently and it wasn't nearly as helpful or understandable as this one, great job Simon! I look forward to the follow-up talk with Richard.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Definitely. Superior interview : )

[@coenfirmationbias7117]

Well moderated conversation. I knew Rachrd Johnson as a anti fructose guy from Mark Hymans podcast. However, after this one i think he also is just about diet quality. I think you guys ended it on a well explained note.

[@myla6135]

Fascinating. I started looking seriously into my diet, which I considered to be quite healthy, not for weight loss but to try and get my blood pressure down. As a slim, fit for my age type with no organic reason for my extremely erratic BP I just felt it had to be my diet. Well some tweaks along these lines appear to be helping but I need this sort of information to make sure I don't go from one set of errors into another. It's certainly a lot more complicated than I ever imagined. I shall have to take a look at Richard Johnson's book. I like that he seems open-minded to all different diets and not ideological about food. Refreshing.

[@scarletohara6743]

If blood pressure is a problem, uric acid could be playing a role, Dr, Perlmutter's book "Dropping Acid" has helped me lower my BP

[@emmabushby1152]

Another interesting conversation thanks Simon. I struggle to get behind this theory as there didn't seem to be any human data backing his claims. What really irked me was the claim that low carb diets are known to be better for weight loss but every time you challenged this claim he couldn't back up his statement with any facts... Made me wonder about the reliability of any of the statements he made.. I think this is purely mechanistic observations in animals that doesn't seem to play out in any research in people... Will be interested in the follow up conversation....

[@munkyfatt]

Literally wrote what I wanted to say... I listened on Spotify last night and got a little frustrated by the lack of direct response to some of Simon's questions. I'm glad I've found a space to express my feelings now The Proof/Plant Proof/Simon is on KZbin! 💪 Definitely looking forward to another conversation with Dr Johnson where he hopefully reads some of the comments and realises that beating around the bush with completely irrelevant theories related to animals hibernating is not what we want to hear unless this episode was supposed to be about animal health in the wild...

[@Amshatelia88]

That was my thought as well, the studies covered on The Exam Room podcast suggested that keto actually slows fat loss compared with other diets--keto causes more water loss which is mistaken as "weight loss."

[@malcolmdow]

Thanks Simon, another great podcast with lots of thought provoking discussion. As always, research based evidence is so important and you and your guests always rely heavily on this, rather than hype and selective cherry picking. Can I make a suggestion for a future guest: Dr Michael Greger. He's so thorough in his research and analysis, he would be a fantastic guest to ask so many questions of. Hopefully he would agree to be on your podcast.

[@kazoz3520]

1:43:55 Dr Johnson: "... Foie gras that's typically been made by feeding animals figs and dates and sugar ..." No (unless you are thinking of the Romans, & ancient Egyptians). Modern Foie gras production usually involves overfeeding for 2 to 3 weeks of high starch grains (eg maize) mashed with water, & maybe some fat added. Ie very little sugar is in the feed.

[@trishmarck7798]

Regardless the process is disgusting 🤢

[@kazoz3520]

​@@trishmarck7798 Yes, no doubt about that. And what feed ingredients are given depends on what is the most economical. It's a very high carb diet because this is the cheapest source. One example I read where fat may be included in the diet is where the excess fat from the processed birds is reused as a feed source (therefore a cheap fat source). Even more gross when you think about it.

[@potterylady44]

​@@kazoz3520Wow a mess

[@catcan221]

Fruit gave me fatty liver and an extra 35 pounds. I was eating whole foods organic and lots of fruit. Too much. Now I realize fruit should be eaten by small handfuls late in summer, not daily and year round. It was never meant to be eaten in such abundance. We have fruit available out of season now and humans will pack on weight for a winter starvation that never actually happens. Once that realization hit me, I went off the sugary fruit and the weight started to come down.

[@Huntarkiller]

You were doing something else wrong. Nothing is as good for you as fruit.

[@catcan221]

@@Huntarkiller No. I was not "doing something else wrong." Fruit is not for humans to eat year round, every day.

[@jaym9846]

> Fruit gave me fatty liver and an extra 35 pounds ... I eat a ton of fruits as part of a vegan, high-carb (>80%), low-protein(

[@hazelradford7787]

I really learnt a lot in this one Simon! I found the differences in opinions really added to the quality of the conversation and I loved the deep dive into the physiology learning about leptin etc. It was great that you continued to highlight high quality whole food carbs not being the problem. Looking forward to part 2... Although I hope he answers your questions more thoroughly without dodging next time!

[@KetogenicGuitars]

That little over weight is associated with better survival absolutely means that little overweight people are having little bit better income level and have less stress in their life. That also means they have room to sensible and diverse social life. So it is associated but not causal relation. Over weight has nothing to do with it.

[@mirellamatotek4294]

When anyone starts vilfying sugar and fructose, I am immediately reminded of Walter Kempnar. A diet with no fat, only white rice, fruit juice and sugar; reversing modern diseases. He did supplement them with B-vitamins and other nutrients. I guess it is going to take another century to work out an optimal diet for free living humans. Are we able to have a test available for that enzyme which is upregulated in the livers of obese people?

[@sheilayungk7815]

I think I might be on the wrong video. I thought I saw the question, "Does Fruit Make you Fat?" I am still waiting for this answer. You are discussing fructose, which is in fruit and you are saying that is creates fat in the body. If this is so why are fruitarians so thin and healthy? We do know that sugar is not healthy, but isn't this white processed sugar? Also, is this proof that the carnivore diet might be healthier for us? This is very confusing. I do know that sugar is not healthy. Supposedly so are dairy and meat.

[@cadupradoo]

I'd agree with @karwask! It seemed to me that most of his statements didn't come from top notch studies. Some claims started with "we knooow that etc.". I also agree with you both that we can always discover a new mechanism, but we'll never know if we've understood all of them, and probably not. That being said, we usually don't eat thinking of mechanisms and the net impact should be a better parameter Than an isolated mechanistic expectancy. Thanks, Simon, for this. A brief summary from your respectful takeaways of this conversation like you did on the seed oil debates would be nice! I also support taking guests from different points of view. We should have a growth mindset to study new perspectives with science! On the other hand, if we are truly open to the discussion and our point of view doesn't change during a debate/conversation, then we've come out with stronger arguments and confidence

[@robertmorgan000]

Brilliant interview and very enjoyable. Can't wait until the follow-up interview 👍

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Two episodes with Dr Johnson have been posted on my channel :)

[@MarthaHenson-zp1kw]

The more I hear from these scientists about various diets and their pluses and minuses, the more I realize the diet I grew up eating is the best. That is Whole Foods, all types in moderation and occasional dessert. In my graduating class 1970, we had one chubby girl. Highly processed food and sugary drinks are the enemy.

[@farooqbinadam]

Great podcast! I noticed some carnivore influencers saying fruit is bad because of fructose, but when you look at their sources in their descriptions, none of the studies refer to fruit. They all refer to HFCS, mice and fructose solutions. It's kind of a let down given that they have so much good info regarding the importance of meat.

[@DrummerDucky]

Wait, why would you single "meat" as being important? Any good source of amino acids work. Legumes does the job, WITH extra fibers, and WITHOUT saturated fats, and that's without even bringing the substantial environmental advantage. Meat should be a fallback item when calamity arises, not a daily treat. (Seafood including fish is more akin legumes than other animals; not sure about the environmental imprint though.)

[@brucehall3214]

I think you meant plants should be a fall back item when you can’t find any meat. Fixed it for you.

[@inthevortex-de1rh]

I am not carnivore, nor diabetic but I like to monitor my sugar levels and most fruits spike my sugar levels. I think they have nutrients but you have to eat very small portions because you don't have to constantly have high glucose level. It's a good idea to have a glucose monitor and test all kinds of food. It's very helpful to understand how your body reacts to foods. We are all different what is good for one can be poison for another person

[@sonja4164]

​@@inthevortex-de1rheating fruit doesn't spike everyone's blood glucose levels. I personally don't have to minimize my fruit intake.

[@sannacook812]

Thanks,Simon. Just wondering if I have this straight: it takes the combination of dietary fat and a high glycemic starch to cause problems? So white potatoes without the addition of oil/fat is no problem? And an avocado minus the bread is no problem? Does it make a difference if the potato is eaten with non starchy veg? What if potato is cooked then chilled before eating? This is all very interesting. Keep it up.

[@nataliajimenez1870]

We also have the concept of satiety and hunger, which is extremely important. Eating fat with protein is more satiating than eating just carbs or carbs with fat. And the worst carb is fructose, particularly in its liquid form (juices and sodas) as Dr Johnson has studied. But excess glucose (in the form of starches) can also be converted into glucose. So limiting sugars and starches is essential to reverse metabolic syndrome

[@TheWarriorprincess09]

Yet again: the questions you ask are right on target.

[@Amshatelia88]

I would love to see a debate/conversation with this guest and Cyrus Khambatta.

[@cypriano8763]

the questions are; how is a fruitarian type 1 diabetic still alive, why isent he obese and how did the lipogenesis of fructose to saturated fat not cause him to have a heart attack?? i cant se dr johnson or dr layman ever agreeing to such a conversation.

[@xnoreq]

​@@cypriano8763"Why isn't a fruitarian type 1 diabetic obese?" Because no nutrient causes obesity per se. Chronic excess does, as do certain drugs and conditions that affect metabolism. "How did the lipogenesis of fructose to saturated fat not cause him to have a heart attack?" For several reasons. But the most important one is that less than 1% of ingested fructose is converted into triglycerides. Most of it is in fact converted to glucose. People have the same confusion about high-carb diets and obesity. They only understand a small part of a mechanism (such as carbs being converted to triglycerides or that carbs increase insulin which "stops" fat burning) but are unaware of how irrelevant those mechanisms are in the bigger picture.

[@dollyrocker40]

@@xnoreq 100 % agree im type two diabetic from having a serious illness loosing most of my pancreas only make the smallest amount my own insulin im on 20 units background insulin iv tried Keto carnivore then blood kept spiking no dairy also now im whole food plant based and im over whelmed that I eating high carb fruits and and beans eat its been a god saver but I haven't reduced my insulin as that's what I wanted to do I got down to 5 units on carnivore but my blood kept spiking and how do you loose weight on whole food plant based fat free if insulin is the same do I go into a calorie deficit ? im so confused with it all any advice much appreciated faye uk

[@xnoreq]

​@@dollyrocker40Hey. Please note that I'm not a doctor. Don't trust me blindly. Before doing any drastic changes always ask your doctor first. From what you told me it sounds like you're doing the right thing with the WFPB diet. With that diet you prevent all the extra oxidative stress, reactive oxygen species and advanced glycation end products that are all very high in keto/carnivore diets ... and these are all known to cause cell damage, DNA damage as well as speed up aging. I'm saying this because the pancreas is more susceptible to damage from oxidative stress. So be sure to include some foods rich in antioxidants in your diet. Example: berries, citrus fruit, dark leafy greens or onions and many more. You don't need to go crazy, just add a bit to every meal. The beta cells in the pancreas that produce insulin are unlikely to regenerate, but by improving your insulin sensitivity the requirements for exogenous insulin should go down over time. As for the diet itself, try to reduce foods with a very high glycemic index. You can also reduce the spiking by eating foods that are higher in protein and fiber first. I also recommend doing a bit of weight training 2-3 times/week, because muscles are the main buffer for glucose/glycogen ("blood sugar"). If your BMI is anywhere within the normal range then I don't think you should actively try to lose weight.

[@Billy97ify]

Insulin resistance is not a disease. It is a healthy response to excess glucose consumption. What modern humans are having is chronic insulin resistance which leads to diabetes 2. That is a different thing, a problem and a disease. Temporary excess fat is not the problem most people have. It is chronic obesity that is the issue.

[@tanyasydney2235]

Spot on.

[@Kerry6691]

Great podcast, entertaining for sure 😄The leptin switch sounds interesting 🤔 I am looking forward to the follow-up.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

Is this an example of the foods that people don't eat getting the blame for the world's dietary ills?

[@sssteviep]

Yup all that fruit everyone is eating clearly is causing the obesity epidemic.

[@sssteviep]

To be fair he didn’t blame fruit.

[@educational-101]

@@sssteviep Definitely didn't did he. He eats fruits and loves fruits.

[@nataliajimenez1870]

He is blaming SUGAR (table sugar is half fructose and sodas are sweetened with high fructose corn syrup). He mentions how the effect of fructose in actual fruits is blunted due to all the fiber and water so they are not really the problem unless people eat a ton of them in one seating

[@xnoreq]

@@nataliajimenez1870 Fructose is almost completely irrelevant. Less than 1% of ingested fructose is converted to triglycerides. Also, there are two main types of HFCS. One is 42% fructose and another one is 55%. Five or even ten percent more or less fructose doesn't really matter, and a lot of fruit have similar or even higher ratio of fructose to glucose. We also know of people that eat like 6 meals consisting only of huge amounts of sweet fruit every day, and they are fit and metabolically healthy. The problem is chronic overconsumption. Sugar-sweetened beverages are mainly a problem because they are consumed like water, but they are not like water. They contain hundreds of additional (empty) calories. Btw, even though sugar consumption has gone down for years obesity still has gone up just like when sugar consumption was increasing year by year.

[@spiph23]

I think my biggest problem with Dr. Johnson was that he seems lean toward the solution to obesity as being, "eat low carb." Yes, he acknowledged all of the caveats once Simon pressed him on the issue about the quality of the food and carbohydrates having a huge impact, but Simon shouldn't have had to press him on that. Also, I can't believe he called Gary Taubes a great scientist. SMH

[@janeschade7875]

Excellent information thank you! Would love to hear more about salt and our overall health

[@S7ilgar]

Yes, me too! I eat a lot of salt and all my GPs always told me that if I don't have hypertension, it's harmless. Still, I tried to limit a bit because in the world of nutrition, you never know which deleterious effects they will find about one thing or another a few years later. And here it is: Richard just said that salt combined with high carbs trigger the switch for obesity and metabolic diseases. I think we need a century or two to well understand how what we eat impact us, until then, better to eat a bit of everything or stick to the Mediterranean diet.

[@annieg5581]

Wowsers! This is full of very interesting information. It is wonderfully presented too. I am going to listen to it maybe several times so I can ingest all the particulars! Very exciting!

[@Kitiwake]

Male 66 here. Went full carnivore 5 months ago and lost 13kgs. Started exercising 3 months ago. Turning into knotted oak. Trying

[@metalrunner4398]

I don’t know why Rob Lustig and this man think that when we says “carbs” they imagine twinkies and coca cola.

[@klovvin]

What is a good carb tho? Any wheat or rice turns into sugar immediately.

[@metalrunner4398]

@@klovvin so?

[@potterylady44]

Right!

[@kencarey3477]

Hard to take advice on fruit from a guy with an enormous double chin. I eat a ton of fruit and have a BMI of 18. Im 67 years old ,lean,strong an healthy

[@chuckleezodiac24]

too bad that all fruit has given you a severe case of assholethelioma...

[@DrummerDucky]

I'm sure he has some interesting studies regarding excess fructose, but from anecdotal experiences, fruit intake (low or high) never had any incidence on my personal weight. Now, nuts, nut butter, and chocolate on the other end... I have to keep away or I see my abs slowly disappearing!

[@lieshtmeiser5542]

"Hard to take advice on fruit from a guy with an enormous double chin. " Bit picky for a 67 year old fart arent you?

[@worldnomad2301]

1:28:00 min in. Fruitarians eat bananas, oranges, grapes, and apples. To my knowledge, they are very skinny, so it’s apparent Johnson hasn’t really looked into this population.

[@lowbarbillcraig3689]

He really perked up when Simon brought up the Hazda and I thought "OK, what'll the excuse be?" His first thought was genetics? ... like the time Gary Taubes said Asians have different genetics, so rice affects them differently. Taubes level thinking ... impressive

[@tnvol5331]

Fruit is negatively correlated with cancer, heart disease , diabetes, and obesity. Very healthy!

[@DrummerDucky]

But... But... the problem cannot be saturated fats because it's in a lot of food I love, so it HAS to be fruits and fructose! It's the only logical explanation! /s Sarcasm aside, refined sugar is inflammatory, people just need to understand that the nutrition lies within whole-plants, with marginal quantity (or complete abstinence) of animal products. I would leave fishes and seafood in their own category since they seem to be remarkably healthier than the land animals.

[@martinmannion1806]

A LOT of references to ‘the switch’; but only a fleeting, cursory, by the way DEFINITION of… ‘the switch’!!!

[@smilebot484]

i find this guest very hard to listen to. firstly he's trying to minimize obesity and then blame it on "carbs". i respect that Simon is trying to allow for guests that he disagrees with. my problem is this isn't really enough of a debate. we're basically giving a platform for misinformation here. these kinds of researchers who are running with studies that compare their favourite food to something worse just to conclude that their favourite food is health promoting should not be given more air time IMO. we have to have some basic respect for science as a starting point for debate. so i would say sure let's debate but the researcher has to meet some basic decency as a thinker first. this guest does not.

[@smilebot484]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill still working on it! Good point

[@potterylady44]

Right

[@davidreece1642]

Do you consider quinoa to be a high quality carb given that it is a seed rather than grain?

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Yes its a pseudo-grain with great nutritional properties

[@davidreece1642]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thanks.

[@arianasilesia2500]

I immensely enjoyed this

[@Mimicry161]

This was great!

[@redhotz21]

Lnk to video part two please

[@felicisimomalinao1981]

Eat the whole fruit, except for the peel. Much thanks Dr. Richard.

[@DrummerDucky]

Wh...Why would you leave the peel out? Some fruits have inedible peel, but most of them are delicious.

[@zhilahaghbin4766]

like always very educational. my understanding of Carnivore diet, reading P.S book, is that there is a spectrum of levels for this diet, while it is recommended to keep carb to "Zero" or close to it, it can be exactly close to Mediterranean diet, if your main source of protein is fish/sardines and for fat pufas/mufas and for low carb be "leafy, green vegetables, like Brassica family, avoiding fruits with high glycemic index and all highly processed foods, out of a can, bag, ". I agree people should avoid saturated fats. While most docs who advocate Keto/carnivor on youtube say high LDL and high Cholesterol can be only problematic on those with "prediabetes, diabetes, HTN, immune disease and those with high waist line" the truth is by the time one finds out there is inflammation and insulin resistant and high BP going on , many disease like Atherosclerosis of blood vessels, are already established. and sadly even in US the health care system is not geared to measure even peoples APo B or inflammatory markers on routine exams, one is lucky to have these done when presents with some concerning symptoms. Thus many people who do Keto with highly saturated fat and have high LDL , be aware might have underlying inflammation and other issues that have not yet surfaced or diagnosed, taking the "middle path" and playing it safe is best option.

[@petercbrandon]

In my experience a low carb animal based diet is very healthy and good for weight control, but it isn't much fun. I tend to miss pasta and potatoes and corn and rice and bread. Is there any talk around switching back and forth? Maybe eat carnivore for a week and then healthy carb low fat for a week? It seems doughnuts and french frys and deep fried breaded stuff are right out on any diet?

[@tootstoyou1]

I agree. I think the body responds well to periodic dietary change …. I’m very meat based low carb at the moment. Yummmm. Might struggle going back to plant based, which I was for many years.

[@plantbasedposer]

Is it possible this is all dependent on what macro youre using as your main fuel source (or the one the body registers first as the main source), namely fat or carbs. My understanding is that depending on whichis the main fuel source the body will upregulate or downregulate certain processes, including whether the muscle or the liver can take in a lot of carbs (the fatty-acid syndrome or Randle cycle).

[@henkhessel3651]

Read Prof. Benjamin Bikman Why we get sick. and/or his lectures on the Randle cycle and insulin.

[@mcanqb]

When this guest mentioned Peter Attia, I became alarmed. Then when he talks about it all being insulin’s fault… cmon. He is stuck in 1990. Fat is the driver of diabetes, and he doesn’t know that

[@doddsalfa]

I don’t really know what this guy is preaching but my guess is he has never eaten a fruit

[@alfredadrianjr.4702]

I have a good friend that has eaten almost nothing for fruit for years. He ended up with a a triple bypass.

[@lieshtmeiser5542]

What was eating when you werent looking ?

[@alfredadrianjr.4702]

@@lieshtmeiser5542 Good ?. But what was his combined triglyceride/glucose score? We will never know.

[@potterylady44]

Was he eating enough calories?

[@margeretheath597]

Why on earth are you wearing a cap indoors in the dark? Strange. Anyway, thanks for the good podcast.

[@potterylady44]

Really hate how he cuts Simon off ugh.

[@grmalinda6251]

When my toe hurts vit c takes care of it.

[@azdhan]

Great video! Many thanks for sharing. I know you are not Carnivore but it would be good if you interviewed Profeesor Bart Kay to explain his position on why he feels the carnivore diet is optimal for humans. Whether you agree or disagree with him, Professor Bart Kay is a highly skilled individual who possesses such a knack for being able to dissect a lot of studies in his defense. And I am not a carnivore nor am I in anyway suggesting you push a pro-carnivore narrative . I just think it would make for a very interesting video for your viewers and subscribers. Another guy, not Carnivore, to consider is Dr Brewer if you feel Professor Bart Kay would be too much of a stretch for you to interview. Thanks again.

[@tanyasydney2235]

Ughhh, Bart...barf!

[@chazwyman]

What a mad world. THis video is prefaed with an ad vor coca cola? Packed with fructose.

[@b.porterv7418]

I think this guy's a quack. sorry, Simon. what he's saying goes against mountains of research.

[@Kerry6691]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I liked the way you both ended the podcast with respect for one another's opinion and determination to get to the truth of the matter scientifically. Well done 👏

[@nancyevans5176]

Amazing how you so easily make a statement and have nothing to back it up..

[@eswyatt]

You've got to be careful with models that can explain everything and make everything "a little bit true."

[@kayaking1000]

Now I’ve heard everything, fatter people live longer.

[@newtalking3]

Yes it can make you bloated and gain weight

[@josephacolletti]

I like this work, but he didn’t answer the question or flew over his head at 1445

[@john99776]

Re: Master's Degree in Human Nutrition - there are no masters of this subject.

[@john99776]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill You failed to pick up on my meaning.

[@emh8861]

Is Simon single 🤤

[@AntoineGrangier]

The subtle "vegan" bias was tedious. And Richard was very cautious not hurting the interviewer's feeling. But he does know that red meat is by far the most appropriate food that a human can get. All this part was rather comical.

[@ronaldsingh3858]

Why can’t you brilliant scientists sit together and settle the science, then give us the final conclusion, rather than arguing each others theories thru us. Sure it solves one person’s problem but confuses another. It is so damn confusing to me as to what to eat and what not to.

[@ronaldsingh3858]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I understand. Thanks for responding.

[@Thegrumpycarpenter]

This guy needs some more fruit, the fiber with help him be less full of…..

[@MrOldSkoolMan]

Like all your videos Simon but I had to stop listening before 10 mins were up. As soon as he said 'covid' was a serious disease, he was discredited in my mind.

[@icarus0206]

Good now get out

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

I mean, millions have died from it, but do go on take a big gross dump on their gravestones 🤡

[@andymack8178]

Right on! And don't forget, the flat earth society is always looking for new members.

[@leniolesch896]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill In Germany, we have a medical doctor who has written a book with the title „one apple is healthy, three make you fat”. It’s nonsense. Those people make us afraid of whole foods and cause anxiety around eating. The same is true for the glucose goddess. Do you know Jessie Inchauspé? She terrifies people with her blood sugar control, like never eat a peace of fruit without fat. Ups, I’ve just eaten melon.

[@TheMoreVeganTheBetter]

But can you seriously eat anything else after 3 dragon fruit? I've been eating fruit with almost every meal for my entire life. That's a long, long, long time... I still can't pass the threshold of max. 3 dragon fruit at a time because my stomach will literally looks like I'm 6 month pregnant and I'll be feeling so full that I just have to wait until next meal to eat anything... This is of course, anecdotal... But, I mean, human stomach is not very big. However, I do believe juices are much easier to overconsume... 😂 Solid advice from you, Simon, as always!

[@blueberry4082]

I can eat 25 bananas or 15 mangoes or 20 nectarines in one setting 😢😢😢😢

[@integralsun]

Including some fresh seasonal fruits along and veggies is how we ate when I was growing up in the 50s and 60’s. But we also had too ready access to candy and other sweets. But even so, obesity among children back then was the exception. Today, carbs are used like a drug by food companies who are way more interested in profit than sound nutrition. My mom was a trained dietician. She focused on a balanced meal plan. We ate salads, meats, potatoes, and a vegetable every day. Deserts were available if we ate our veggies.

[@eileenkast4982]

Thank you for the interview. The next time he comes on I would present to him Walter kempner’s research. Isn’t there tons of data behind a high carb low fat diet as being healthy for humans? The one thing that always bothers me is the complete abandonment of planetary health.

[@veniqe]

I'm on a diet high in saturated animal fat and moderate in meat. It's very low in plants on a daily basis except for twice a week when we eat bread, fruit, or some other junk. All my health markers are excellent. I feel like a 18-year-old girl at 40

[@arianasilesia2500]

I very much look forward to a second episode. I really hope you will elaborate on artificial sweeteners I myself are very dependant on them and consume it daily 🙂

[@tanyasydney2235]

Sorry, but Johnson doesn't know what he's talking about. Have Cyrus Khambatta and Robbie Barbaro on istead. Fat is always the issue, not fruit. I gained all my unwanted weight by staying on a keto diet for too long, not by eating fruit.

[@mayurim9839]

This was a very interesting listen, thank you for sharing! It be helpful to hear what Dr Pontzer's take is on the hypothesis that the high fructose consumption is the reason that there was a lack of difference between the total energy expenditures of Western populations and The Hadza. Also, in healthy individuals, is uric acid a cause for concern since at face value explorations of the literature and after watching Dr Stanfield's video review about the latest research on uric acid, is seems that uric acid can function as an antioxidant? Would be useful to hear your thoughts on this! Thank you. 🙂

[@ellenhomeister7374]

I really got a lot out of this interview. I just starting 100% Vegan diet 4 weeks ago, just devoured your PP book. Being hypothyroid, Having body fat of 31%, normal a1c but high LDL-c I can’t wait for part two and learning how to regenerate the mitochondria of my cells. Thanks for your awesome work.

[@Kitiwake]

What's you visceral fat content?

[@Nellis202]

How about a balanced omnivore diet. Meats in moderation along with the fruits and vegetables. 😊

[@KsazDFW]

Dr Johnson talked too much, too fast and was very hard to follow to any conclusions. If Simon had not tried to guide him, this would have been much less useful. All these biomechanics are interesting to help understand why things might be happening, but I find that they are not as good as the meta analyses that show actual results.

[@k4climate420]

I too feel the need to listen again to sort out confusion but not sure I want to! The evolutionary value of fat seems clear but the specific conditions that could lead to more of it than one might want - short and long term - were not clear at all. The explanation for why the Hadza and most fruitarians don’t suffer the problematic conditions despite all the honey and fructose? Not clear. Then near the end the devious role of salt despite its lack of calories? Tilt. But I still love your podcast and I’d listen if he does come back ✌️

[@arianasilesia2500]

I did carnivore diet but felt awful on it and I did develop gout in my hips 😔 took me a while to figure out what was going on especially because I got so brainwashed with the anecdotes that it cures everything 🤔😔

[@Amshatelia88]

Glad you figured it out!

[@metalrunner4398]

Shawn says noone ever had any problems on carnivore diet. Except those whose comments misteriously dissapear from his thread.

[@iLoveBoysandBerries]

Nonsense

[@makaisenki]

Yeah but the carnivore diet didn't give you gout the gal has been forming a long time prior. The gout crystals basically just ended up getting shifted and that's the problem. It's the same thing with like kidney stones the kidney stones were forming for a long time and you hope that they slowly breakdown and come out little pieces overtime but if you have a large piece just break off because of pH balance shifts, then suddenly you have a large blockage that is incredibly painful to remove forces little tiny crystals that broke down over time. Oxalates are the same thing if you have someone who's constantly eating peanut butter spinach and chocolate as like they're mean go to and suddenly you put them on any diet that's low in oxalates, those can all flood out all at once and literally kill the person so you'd want to dial back.

[@SkyRiver1]

@@makaisenki REally. . . ? At 93, at the end of his life my father was admitted to a recover center where he went off his vegan diet. In a month he developed gout so acute that he could not stand without screaming. I was told I could not dictate his diet even though he was not very lucid. I broke him out of the center and took him to his doctor, who took 45 minutes explaining to me why, between his heart disease and his kidney failure there was really nothing that could be done about the gout. I put him back on his vegan diet, which he had only been following since I became his caretaker a year earlier. In two weeks instead of being wheeled into his next doctors appointment he walked in himself, at the age of 93, pain free. The doc found it unbelievable.

[@lindsaytoussaint]

This one was a bit difficult to get through if I’m honest. But I’m glad I did! Thank you for not keeping your circle an echo chamber.

[@murraybrockway6540]

Burning fat in the absence of carbohydrate burns 2 carbons of the fat in the ATP cycle and also converts 2 carbons of fat to ketones which gets excreted. This burns fat twice the speed as in the presence of fat. I do a whole food plant based diet usually no sugar, no oil, no salt (WFPB-SOS) avoiding potatoes, white rice, high glycemic fruits so I can go for a 30 walk and go into ketosis or after a palm full of flax seed and do a 12 to 24 hour fast. I don't lose weight if eating nuts (because I eat much more than an ounce). So you don't necessarily need to be on a keto or carnivore diet to take advantage of a keto diet.

[@kape2377]

I eat tons of fruit, of which like half is bananas, everyday, and I have lost quite a lot of weight in the last years. Could it be that I also stay away from grains and focus on potatoes, from which I dont even eat that much, plus a lot of walking every day? What effects does fruit have if you eat a diet that is on the lower end of carbs for the rest? I guess, since I am physically active, the body use the carbs I eat from fruit to provide enough energy? I am rarely hungry between meals and usually dont need any snacks throughout the day.

[@aliendroneservices6621]

Potatoes are starchy.

[@kape2377]

@@aliendroneservices6621 I know but I was referring to other grains mostly, maybe I was expressing myself vaguely.

[@williamtuite1120]

@@kape2377the bananas are starchy. I’d get a glycation test

[@kape2377]

@@williamtuite1120 I edited the comment because I apparently didnt express myself very well. English is not my first language.

[@potterylady44]

❤❤❤❤❤

[@ludgrob1]

Im not convinced tbh

[@worldnomad2301]

It’s obvious Johnson hasn’t read Kevin Hall’s study.

[@kiaranjay5153]

Interesting interview, and I appreciate his end note about being open to be proven wrong. That says a lot. Looking forward to the follow up

[@Luvlyc2017]

I follow Dr. Anthony Chaffee am a carnivore. He said he only eats meat water butter and salt. Vegetables have toxins. I also😢have multiple sclerosis I am trying to heal.

[@Anna-mc3ll]

PS: As for your question of how to best educate the general population about the relation between food and health, I personally believe that any education starts in early childhood, and therefore it is definitely not enough to rely exclusively on the spread of information on social media, especially because there are so many opposing opinions on this issue. One of the major problems today is that, in many parts of the world, children leave their house without a proper breakfast or even with no breakfast at all, and then are completely dependent on the food they get at school or at some fast food bar during the break. Therefore, I think it is essential that proper meals as well as grounded education about food, eating patterns, etc. be offered at school. But, of course, this is just my own point of view on this topic. Kind regards, Anna

[@Kitiwake]

Children need an egg a day and milk up until the age of 5. Not sugar or bread. Afterwards animal products are great for kids to grow tall and strong.

[@nancykowalczyk2070]

Agree with feeding children, animal products…eggs, cheese, real butter, meat… Sadly, most parents are feeding them the same anti-nutrient processed fake foods, they are addicted, too.

[@UsyksmashedFurytopieces]

With respect, how can you educate the general population about food when the messages coming out from the so called nutrition experts is so mixed& contradictory? Yes you can go on a carnivore/ Keto diet but you’re LDL cholesterol & ApoB will more than likely go though the roof. You can switch to a vegan diet, but you’re sugars & HBa1C will most likely rise. There no one perfect diet as far as I see, and most have downsides but a sensible omnivorous diet seems to be the best bet. Pretty much the only thing the zealots are agreed on is that processed food is junk & that’s it.

[@Anna-mc3ll]

@@UsyksmashedFurytopieces I agree with your argument. To be honest, precisely because there are so many fights between the so-called experts in this field, I personally don’t know what exactly is “the best” diet.

[@Anna-mc3ll]

Dear Simon, Thank you for sharing this interesting conversation! However, I wonder what you think about people like Dr. Neal Barnard, Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., M.D., T. Colin Campbell or Dr. John McDougall. All of them advocate a low-fat diet, and, to be honest, for their respective age, they seem to be quite healthy. At least, in my humble opinion … In other words, if their theories were totally wrong, how then could they themselves as well as their families thrive on such low-fat diets? Furthermore, to my knowledge, some cultures with a relatively high life expectancy have traditionally consumed rather little fatty food. Maybe you could comment on this issue. Thank you very much for your great work on this channel! Kind regards, Anna

[@emagneticfield]

A nurse I knew years ago used to tell younger women students that nature wants us fat and pregnant. This insures the survival of us as a species. Females need a certain amount of body fat to be fertile. We may not like it but that’s reality.

[@DrummerDucky]

We're rational enough to start putting counter-measures when excess weight start to show up. I'm always baffled to see people lugging around massive amount of extra fat; don't you have a mirror at home? Why didn't you stop as soon as you noticed? Better now than never though!

[@lieshtmeiser5542]

Complete load of crap wasnt it?

[@potterylady44]

Wow foie gras from force feeding ducks figs and dates and sugar huh? LIES!

[@AnavonRebeur]

Follow Dr Lustig please

[@dr.ashabenakappa354]

Everything is going over my head 😢

[@Franklin-pc3xd]

Most of these guests are very somnolent, especially many of the narcissistic ones who sit there and talk for hours about themselves with massive numbers of "I's" and "me's" in their palaver. I've found them to be excellent sleep aids. A guest named Al Flanagan is the most boring, but best in terms of sleep inducement; so I stuck that in my sleep aid folder. This episode is an exception. Doc Johnson here is very engaging, knowledgeable and the information is useful; thus, he has kept me awake and interested in what he has to say....pretty rare. The channel sponsor should probably go through and label the videos as "sleep aid" or "informational" to save us time sorting them out ourselves.

[@tootstoyou1]

😂😂😂😂. Thanks for the sleep aid tip.

[@potterylady44]

Well this vid right here is definitely putting me to sleep.

[@sandradings8660]

I have the feeling that the low carb diet leads to less appetite because there is no pleasure in eating anymore. I mean, of course I will lose weight with this, but this will not last. But this is just my experience. I really enjoy your podcasts!

[@dvdmon]

Nope, low carb can be extremely tasty, that's why people are drawn to it. Sure, you miss things like fruit, but if you don't have a sweet tooth, then that's not something you will crave.

[@lowbarbillcraig3689]

>> low carb diet leads to less appetite FOR SOME. for some others, they pack on the pounds pretty quick. When I did Atkins I could regularly put away 32oz of steak (hold the salad and potato) and still want more, much more.

[@timsahkelebek5901]

@@lowbarbillcraig3689 Yep me too. Could easily consume over 4000 cals with low carb and still felt hungry. Best for me (appetite/satiety wise) is high carb, moderate fat and protein.

[@lieshtmeiser5542]

There is great pleasure in a nice scotch fillet or T-bone. Skip the coca cola and the icecream...

[@zbigniewbrzezinski8869]

The sound quality is bad!

[@TheIgnacio777]

Loved it! Great dialog!

[@Alykat736]

Nice to hear someone whose more interested in truth than fitting into anyones diet dogma 👌🏼I don’t think I can say that about any of the other doctors or self claimed experts on social media . So yay for Dr. Richard Johnson !!!!

[@63alanna]

😊

[@63alanna]

😊

[@norsangkelsang7939]

no shit...

[@samanthab5006]

In my first trimester of pregnancy I went from 135lbs to 125lbs at 5'8 from the nausea. All I wanted to eat at the time was sweet summer fruits like mangos, watermelon, cherries, etc (unfortunately it was November-early January so mostly apples). I wonder if that craving was related to my body basically feeling like I was starving.

[@Harrythehun]

Our bodies are telling us exactly what it wants and needs if we listen closely. I’m better at listening nowadays combining it with brain and bodily exercising and training.

[@followingnazarene]

1:40:13

[@АннаБирюкова-я3ь]

😊❤

[@martinmannion1806]

Simon, your voice was distorted by either the mic or sound editing. A good interview, thanks!!

[@emmas816]

1:30:00 not the body, but the brain in particular converts excess glucose to fructose

[@frv6610]

Nice video. My new favorite food is sliced Potatoes dipped in coconut milk. Edit: I think coconut milk gives me headache.

[@virginiahopkins5735]

My brother, who was a cook and Dietician in Army. His suggestion to me on weight loss, Eat vegetables first, then protiens, next starches. Avoid any foods with High Fructose Corn Syrup in incrediants, Only use olive oil, better to use hog lard over any seed oil. Fructose from High Fructose Corn Syrup, and Fructose from Fruit is not the same thing. The human body can not digest this poison High Fructose Corn Syrup, which is the starch in corn turned chemically into fructose, it causes insulin resistance, which causes Diabetes and obesity.

[@sheilayungk7815]

What about lemons? They have fructose, but are supposed to remove toxicity from our bodies.

[@ws7001]

Be careful of lemons and limes. I became allergic to the oil. Nasty fruits!

[@joannsmith9]

Simon does everyone say that you look like Elliot Overton?

[@joannsmith9]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill That was one of the most informative shows I’ve seen on fructose. With Dr. Johnson It is a very nuanced subject, for sure. Thank you for helping us decipher it. FYI: I remember in the past 2 or 3 years that a FRUITARIAN died at the age of 29 -I think it was You had headgear on I’m sure without the headgear you wouldn’t bear as much resemblance to Elliot,but I had to keep staring in amazement.-especially with your British accent Im so glad I ran across your channel.