WHAT KILLED MATHCORE?

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What killed mathcore? Some of what I look at:
* Early mathcore bands like Dillinger Escape Plan, Botch, Converge, Rorschach, Deadguy and Coalesce
* Later mathcore bands like Crom-Tech, Orthrelm, and Behold The Arctopus
* The arguable peak of mathcore, including bands like Fall Of Troy "FCPREMIX", Chiodos, At The Drive In and Every Time I Die
* Current artists like Frontierer, Polyphia, Chon and Belmont
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0:00 Intro

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Follow me on Instagram instagram.com/finnmckenty

[@seraphimsforge-master5433]

Djent & Mathcore has similar elements?

[@goner.9989]

@@seraphimsforge-master5433 IMO not directly, but I can see it. I would say that the progressive songwriting approach makes it reasonably similar.

[@seraphimsforge-master5433]

@@goner.9989 To me it's the technical aspects, very sharp precision in notes and rhythm in every But then again I'm not that verse in Mathcore 👀 I love how it sounds tho

[@goner.9989]

@@seraphimsforge-master5433 the more you delve deep, the harder to get out it becomes. Keep on digging down the rabbit hole my friend, and don’t stop.

[@wolfcoma]

Man,I haven't heard anybody give deadguy a shout....probably ever

[@drumanddrummer2959]

Dude! Drummer from DestroyerDestroyer here, great vid! That scene was so energized when we were touring in the early 2000s, tons of great kids, great bands really pushing it, and no social media or google maps haha always love your vids great perspective and the empathy comes across. Cheers dude!

[@SophieSlaughterz]

HOLY SHIT

[@MilitantMe]

I never really knew much about mathcore, but my first introduction into heavy underground music was Fall of Troy. I was 16, in high-school, picking my brother up from his super ghetto telemarketing job and his chain smoking coworker, who was eating a microwaved frozen burrito was like "dudes, you gotta come out to my car and listen to this band" and really, I think that's how everyone discovers music like that.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Sounds like your typical FOT fan

[@kage6613]

LMFAO 😂

[@martinpetersen8695]

I struggle to think of a better way to discover new music to be honest.

[@MilitantMe]

@@martinpetersen8695 truth. This is music discovery in its purest form.

[@roxycocksey]

This comment gave me so many flashbacks to moments exactly like this from my own life hahah it’s such a shared experience. Good times y’all.

[@goner.9989]

Dillinger, Converge, Botch, Coalesce. Legends and they still hold up.

[@aperfecttool257]

I bullied a friend into seeing Dillinger in columbia, SC. He thanked me after the show. Also can attest, dillinger shows are a giant safety hazard.

[@DYLANBROCHILL]

we need a 4th band to complete the 4 horsemen of mathcore

[@aperfecttool257]

@@DYLANBROCHILL if they were bigger, Duck Duck Goose or Danza. Listened to Danza 3 last week, still holds up.

[@ZyrusSmith]

Hard disagree. It doesn't even sound like music.

[@seveneightsixone5992]

@@aperfecttool257 Coalesce ?

[@RGT85]

Danza III is a masterpiece.

[@MedalionDS9]

RGT watches Punk Rock MBA, shoulda known... get back to your Grandma's and load up on food and Switch OLED!

[@dylanb610]

I got to see them live as a teenager at the eagles lodge in Wichita Kansas. I still have the hoodie I bought from the show. Seriously underrated band!

[@erichart2756]

Hey look it's Steve Richards!

[@toemasmeems]

@RGT 85 whoa dude your channel blew up I remember when it was hella small back in 2015. Met you at a bar once in NC, siiiick!

[@austins.2495]

You da man RGT

[@nabseen]

Deadguy are criminal underrated. My mom knew I liked band shirts so she bought me two deadguy shirts she found at a goodwill when I was in 3rd grade. Didn’t listen to them many years later but I wish I still had those shirts.

[@chilipismysignature5031]

Deadguy rules. I actually just bought a deadguy shirt from their site in 2024. It looks bad ass too. Says "death to false metal" on the back if you're curious which one it is.

[@M1nd_Fl4y3r]

Lots of young bands still out here doing it really great. Greyhaven, The Callous Daoboys, Ithaca, Employed to Serve, and The Armed are all worth listening to.

[@skrounst]

I was looking for a comment about the Callous Daoboys. I might check out The Armed, and Employed to Serve, never heard them before. Thanks dude!

[@voxextremos22]

Thank you For dropping Greyhaven

[@bobbyjohnbunn]

I agree 100% with Greyhaven, callous daoboys and ithaca. ETS and The Armed seem to be moving away from mathcore as of late.

[@danieljames9647]

The armed are sick

[@delusionalx2605]

Awesome recs, SeeYouSpaceCowboy, Vein and the DGD spinoff Secret Band are some other great bands with a similar sound. They’re all more heavily mathcore influenced but still scratch the itch

[@nickudeschini4812]

Between the Buried and Me can't really be ignored here. They're typically thought of as being a nerdy prog metal band now but their early stuff was a pure mix of mathcore and deathcore that was pretty popular at the time

[@willmurrin9344]

My group of friends had there song Prequel to the Sequel on rockband and played the hell out of it.

[@bigvis497]

Saw them so many times. Amazing live band.

[@brandonnicholson1980]

Without a doubt. Their self title, Silent Circus, & Alaska are heavily mathcore

[@hrsey71]

EXACTLY! shouldve been on here for sure.

[@shortorderproductions8688]

100% agree

[@i_am_florida_man4327]

Finn: "The amphetamine reptile scene" Me: *German shepherd confused head tilt*

[@misscacti2126]

This statement immediately made me think of the band Showbread 🦎🦎🦎

[@ConvincingPeople]

Amphetamine Reptile were and are a really important Midwestern indie label known for releasing weird, dissonant hardcore-adjacent material, most famously Helmet, Melvins and, as noted in the video, The Jesus Lizard.

[@naughtygawd3269]

@@ConvincingPeople Not The Jeusus Lizard, they were on Touch & Go

[@ConvincingPeople]

@@naughtygawd3269 Huh, you're right. I forgot they were part of that whole Chicago scene.

[@undersatan5685]

Have some golf shoes ready.

[@TLH9979]

I love this genre, and love Converge, so it's really refreshing that this wasn't a 20 minute Converge circlejerk.

[@waveemann8857]

This may be a severe hot take, but given where music is right now at this point in time I feel like the majority of Converge's discography just doesn't really hit anymore. I think maybe WFCC/JD/YFM are still their best and hold up but everything else is either just doesn't have the edge it needs because it's their older material or it's just become extremely by the numbers for them. But idk they've got a lot of records and I've heard a lot of music so maybe this is just what everyone goes through when they hit this point haha

[@dudewhy6953]

@@waveemann8857 their newer stuff really takes a sludgier turn, which I’m not dissing it just isn’t for me. Their earlier work is much more my speed. Jane Doe will never not slap

[@ChristianLemon]

Feel like I’m back at Furnace Fest

[@iamjonthemod]

@@waveemann8857Converge is the only band in that realm of hardcore and whatnot that I can listen to any time any day. Everything else got a little boring for a while. But I’m also dipping my toe back in a little.

[@nerdydbf]

The number twelve! A blast from the past! Love what you are doing Finn, helping 35yr old's reminisce about the old scene days. Love from Scotland.

[@napsisnapping]

I would definitely recommend Kaonashi to anyone looking for a new and fresh taste of mathcore with that hardcore flavor, both albums "Why Did You Do It" and "Dear Lemon House, You Ruined Me: Senior Year" are golden and emotional rollercoasters

[@Thundertats]

Definitely agree. Good kids too.

[@williamvancourt528]

Ehhh wasn't a fan, it was the cookie monster vocals for me

[@TheAbandonedAccount7]

Totally forgot they had a new album. Jammed out in a sabella pit with their vocalist a couple yrs ago

[@napsisnapping]

@@williamvancourt528 i literally thought the same thing but then i saw them live and it just made sense. and then i went home and watched their music videos and looked at lyrics n what not. i think that their approach is just pure passion and emotion, not just trying to have gutteral lows or fry mids or whatever it may be. it's not formulaic that's for sure. if you wanted to give them one more try i really recommend "real leather" "my 5 year plan" and "coffees & conversations" maybe seeing them live made me feel differently about them 🤷‍♂️

[@napsisnapping]

@@TheAbandonedAccount7 that's how i first found out about them and sabella!! i think they were on tour together n my homies were on the bill. sabella goes dummy hard too, way underrated.

[@ZANGELIX1263]

We need a Mathcore revival. But even more weedly weedly parts. Algebracore!

[@kevinerhardthansen9016]

Calculuscore!!!

[@ZANGELIX1263]

@@kevinerhardthansen9016 lets up the ante here. Trigonomecore!!! 4th dimension shredding!

[@kevinerhardthansen9016]

@@ZANGELIX1263 All for it!!! 😂

[@heathergraves442]

Trigacore

[@xTreyray]

We play in drop D-vision bro

[@pretty_in_casts]

Also one thing to say is there's a community founded in late 2000's, called "Mathcore Index", and this community really saved mathcore scene in late 2010's till now. Fallfiftyfeet, Steaksauce Mustache, Pupil Slicer, Juan Bond, Black Matter Device, same as Car Bomb and Frontierer (also they released a new album "Oxidized" few days ago), they still relevant that they influenced from Dillinger to Psyopus, or from Converge to The Number Twelve Looks Like You, but the problem except for Car Bomb, is they're still not popular like in 2000s (as you know). P.S. Except for F.C.P.R.E.M.I.X. in Guitar Hero 3, Dillinger also appeared on Saint's Row 2 with Milk Lizard.

[@shrimmirhs292]

Not enough people talk about Psyopus. Chris Arp was a fucking genius.

[@diskomvort]

Shout out to Mathcore Index & Dark Trail Records

[@bearvsshaan]

mathcore index was fucking incredible

[@webinfront]

I love Mathcore Index, they are the real ones.

[@Airmode9000]

Saints Row: The Third also had TDEP - Farewell, Mona Lisa

[@nickdowe4887]

I grew up in this genre as a mid 90s NJ HC kid. Thanks for the shout outs! RORSCHACH and Deadguy were huge. One of my favorites that gets very little recognition is a band called TimesUp which completely changed my life at the time. One of the best 7" records I've ever owned. ❤️

[@terminaldeity]

Frontierer is doing some really interesting stuff. Unloved was one of my favorite albums of 2018.

[@Giacomo-ns6zs]

Their new one is amazing

[@Whocares1987]

Frontierer is 💯

[@rand0mguyontheinternet]

I love frontierer

[@thenoxbox4829]

CarBomb changed the game with Centralia and are still making good stuff to this day. Burnt by the Sun, Psyopus and Ion Dissonance made some crazy s*** back in the day too

[@bearvsshaan]

Car bomb is a worthy successor to the mathcore legacy. They fucking rip. Controlled chaos all day

[@superdarly1577]

That first Ion Dissonance album is really good

[@hedrokka5727]

@@superdarly1577 all ion dissonance albums is real guud

[@driiifter]

Ion Dissonance are legendary. War From A Harlot's Mouth and Remembering Never also went way further than I thought they would. I saw Remembering Never head lining for As I Lay Dying and that's how I discovered them.

[@dotwav4424]

Centralia shaped me into what I am now. One of my fave all time albums

[@toallthecrowdedrooms283]

Kaonashi, Heavy Heavy Low Low, Duck Duck Goose, seeyouspacecowboy, The Fall Of Troy, The Blood Brothers, Fear Before The March Of Flames are all goat status musicians 👑🦾

[@91earthlink]

Still see David from fear before at shows all the time in Denver

[@shanobian]

Ermagerd I forgot about duck duck goose

[@kingchuckfinley]

Have you heard HHLL new band “Bone Cutter?” They’re really something. Pretty brutal.

[@shanobian]

@@kingchuckfinley used to love hhll

[@callantaylor8587]

Heavy heavy low low were nothing but a hack experimental post hardcore band.

[@dwreck]

I agree Finn there is no better Mathcore album than "Calculating Infinity" by The Dillinger Escape Plan. That album still holds up today.

[@FunkadelicPancho]

And it's 22 god damn years old! It still sounds fresh to my ears

[@rustypadhraigdiarmuidseano3192]

Poor Greg Puciato didn't get a single mention!! I think he should at least be credited for bringing vocal virtuosity to mathcore and extreme music in general.

[@notschramm3461]

I feel like a lot of Mathcore bands slowly turned into Djent. Ion Dissonance being a huge example. Listening to Breathing is Irrelevant or Solace, is insanely different from Cast the First Stone. Psyopus is one of my favorite bands and even they verge on the line of appreciating technicality or just being annoying to listen to.

[@Chicagosmisfit]

Not wrong Josh travis definitely is a prime example of this.

[@Whocares1987]

ID was great

[@aelrecs015]

@@Chicagosmisfit tony danza tapdance extravaganza to emmure

[@anthonybilotto7385]

Before they called it Mathcore I remember bands like these being referred to just as like "Experimental Hardcore" or some version of that. I definitely was the kid who got in because Christian Hardcore lead me to Norma Jean and that was when Bless the Martyr came out. I remember that album actively giving me headaches and it being the first time I was really into a sound that I felt like I didn't understand. If I had to name a band I didn't hear mentioned I would probably say Fear Before the March of Flames. Great video.

[@kidneystonermusic]

Dude yes! Listening to Bless the Martyr at that point in my life was like watching a disturbing horror movie. I was so fascinated and couldn't even explain why I loved it so much

[@darionmcoronado]

Art Damage is a 10/10 album for me!

[@Krystal93RadioFM]

Still rocking Sarah Goldfarb on repeat

[@camisado92]

The Number Twelve Looks Like You was definitely my favorite mathcore band! "Nuclear. Sad. Nuclear" and "Mongrel" are great albums! Also, not quite mathcore, but more close to just weird post-hardcore, but did anybody else like to listen to The Blood Brothers?

[@gorogorogoro.]

Blood Brothers were my fucking jam back then; 'Burn, Piano Island, Burn' was eye-opening to this then-17 year old

[@raypixel5880]

I know its and old comment but this is litearlly the first time i've heard someone beside me mention them.

[@katholmquist]

The Number 12 is my absolute fave band of all time! They're fucking unreal. The two albums you mentioned have remained my favorites since 2008. I had a blood brothers album "Young Machetes" but it doesnt hold up for me 🤔

[@camisado92]

@@katholmquist My favorite Blood Brothers songs are "Burn Piano Island Burn", "Love Rhymes with Hideous Car Wreck", and "Set Fire to the Face on Fire"! How do you feel about the most recent Number 12 Looks Like You album? It's a little too much of a shift from their previous albums so I didn't really get much into it myself. Here's to hoping they release another album that returns to that "Nuclear. Sad. Nuclear" sound!

[@christopherkimber7679]

Blood brothers were mind melting dude. Such an amazing band.

[@TheDorkKnight23]

To me Mathcore was always way more Interesting than Deathcore. The Chariot to me was the best live band I've ever seen.

[@isaacjohnson7006]

Deathcore is one of the most unexciting genres in underground music. And I say that as a HUGE FAN of death metal and metalcore. Lol.

[@Babypapayaproductions]

The Red Chord live was as good as deathcore gets

[@TheJamcram]

@@Babypapayaproductions oh man the red chord knew how to still put on a crazy good show

[@carltonbauheimer]

Watching The Chariot play the final breakdown of The Deaf Policeman by going down into the pit and having the entire audience climb all over them while screaming the lyrics was the best concert experience I ever had.

[@jamesbradford1153]

Damn, The Chariot... highly underrated band, used to listen to them and Norma Jean all the time.

[@cdstackhouse]

The scream drop in "The Mullet Burden" still gets me.

[@UnlinealHand]

11:57 lol "back then" I saw Dillinger for the first time in 2011 and Greg Puciato looked me square in the eyes before kicking me in the face while crowd surfing and I instantly became a fan of the band.

[@NACHECHAN]

Hell yeah!! Hangin through this video to see where Number 12 Looks Like You fits into the history and I'm stoked you also consider them one of the best bands from that mid 2000's mathcore era

[@shrimmirhs292]

Wild God's is massively underrated by the metal community but rightfully praised by the math community.

[@ThugzZBunny]

They are the reason I even watched the video lol

[@Sweat404]

Still listening to Dillinger escape plan

[@adamdam]

I'll never stop! my all time favorite artists!

[@goner.9989]

Same.

[@dudesayHEY]

MILK LIZARD

[@ameeerkat]

@@dudesayHEY AND I WAS EVERY QUESTION THAT NEVER HAD AN ANSWER I SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOOOUUUUU

[@Rubbergnome]

@@ameeerkat WE NEVER EVEN NOTICED THAT THERE ALWAYS WAS A REASON

[@TheBClark88]

Great to hear a shoutout for Protest The Hero. I always thought they were a great blend of more commercial math core and some metal core elements. Kezia is still one of my favourite albums from that era, definitely still holds up really well. In more recent years I’ve also enjoyed some more math-rock/jazz influenced stuff like Battles, Giraffes Giraffes, and to a certain degree GoGoPenguin

[@Pslamist]

PtH still feels like they're on an entirely different plane of existence, but maybe that's Rody being a brilliant song writer.

[@LiftedBlader]

​@@Pslamist their first few albums' lyrics were written by arif, the now former bassist

[@chilipismysignature5031]

Deadguy, Converge, Dillinger, Botch, At the Drive In, Drive like Jehu, Coalesce are like my favorite bands didn't even know I was in to "mathcore", I even fuck with some of those Fall of Troy jams. Everytime I die too. You should check out Better Lovers.

[@mdfmma123]

The Dillinger Escape Plan has been one of my all time favorite bands since 2002. Chris Penny (original drummer then went to play for Coheed) was my main inspiration when I started playing drums and TDEP was the main inspiration for the band I was in in jr high. I was lucky enough to be able to see them live on 3 separate occasions, the last being when they opened for Deftones and Greg sang Maynards part in Passenger. Freakin dope.

[@stocktonjames888]

I just barely started listening to Dillinger Esc Plan this year, and very quickly they became one of my favorite bands! I loved the mix of heavy vocals and crazy guitars along with the lyrics as well. So to see this video was both really cool and interesting to watch! Loved seeing what happened to bands similar like this, also gives me more stuff to listen too

[@MagnumDB]

Their final show, I edited together my footage with all the others I found online: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3zUlKR6g9SsfLM

[@oops6876]

Hearing Finn praise PTH and #12 felt like a victory in some form.

[@Ninjamanhammer]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

[@zeroethsort1071]

I never got into The Number Twelve, but my first concert was them and Protest May 5, 2009. I'm 28 now and it was crazy to see just the other day that Fortress turned 13 yrs old. My brother and his group of friends who were a bit older than me got me into Protest. Still loving their sound to this day.

[@ThugzZBunny]

@@zeroethsort1071 that was a great tour UT you didn't even get the full #12 experience cause Justin had left the band already.

[@phaaaze9984]

Protest is criminally underrated

[@ivanmondragon2735]

literally watched this video just to see if he would mention PTH, i wouldnt even know the term "mathcore" without them

[@johanthompson1463]

Here over in Canada we’ve got a band from Montréal called Ion Dissonance that formed way back in 2001. They were (and are still) one of the best mathcore bands in my opinion after The Dillinger Escape Plan.

[@bigcryptid448]

I'll check em out thanks

[@uhohvnasty]

I remember Dillinger touring with AFI in 2007. I was a diehard AFI fan and worked very hard to get front and center, so I was uniquely assaulted by the opening Dillinger set. My little baby 18 yo self thought I was going to die, I'm not even kidding.

[@TwoGunToast]

The intro reminded me of an interview Dillinger did once. They were asked "whats the craziest thing to happen at a show?" Or something to that effect and the dudes answer was "all the times we thought we killed someone"

[@delusionalx2605]

The Fall of Troy’s Doppelganger was when I realized I had the weedly weedly gene

[@polobear1119]

Alex English by dgd was mine

[@timoratus_music]

I just have a picture in my head of their guitarist sitting in a guitar store noodling away while people are both annoyed and impressed.

[@delusionalx2605]

@@timoratus_music yeah i’ve received both looks from playing their stuff in guitar stores myself 😂

[@atlys258]

Same here, I was only 14 when it came out and still remember being blown away by "Mouths Like Sidewinder Missiles", still one of my all time favorites. Edited to correct age, I don't know why I always misremember Doppelganger coming out in 03 lol 🤦🏽

[@bearvsshaan]

@@atlys258 it was on the 03 and 05 records but yes, that was the first song I heard by tfot and it blew my mind. Legit thought the guitars were like violins or something

[@schrotestthehero]

Would absolutely love to see you do a history of Protest the Hero. Super interesting band that’s done their entire career in innovative, unusual ways. From their music to their marketing and funding; would love for more be to have exposure to them.

[@dalekay9ine]

It's wild that dude from Botch went on to be in Minus the Bear, I mean you can hear his off time tapping style but it's just such a different vibe over all. Personally love both bands.

[@jayking6360]

I always felt that most of Mastadon's first album was in the Mathcore style. At the time they were on Relapse Records with Today's the Day and Neurosis.

[@KelticKabukiGirl]

No man, Sludge, it had HC in it but it was Sludge up until Blood Mountain then Proggy Sludge.

[@chikinonfrydai]

lmao no, it’s sludge, neurosis is sludge too

[@Benjamin-om3ih]

Totally agree, I’d even argue they kept the math core thing going all the way up to their 3rd album Blood Mountain. They obviously had a bunch of other stuff going on too but certainly a heavy math core influence

[@ericclarke3025]

If you haven't heard Brann and Bill's first band Lethargy, give it a listen! Legitimate "math core"!! Its incredible!

[@fehner27]

I've only listened to some of Neurosis. god, that stuff is heavy.

[@jamieryan_mass]

I was hoping you'd mention Frontierer! Really enjoyed this video, I came up through the Mathcore seen in the mid 2000's and so it was fun to see you talk about it.

[@bibiinspades1953]

Dillinger's Miss Machine is fkin classic I had that album on repeat a few days ago

[@feelingevaporated2912]

Best TDEP album for sure

[@brian_of_farce]

I love all Dillinger but MM truly bridged the gap between Calculating Infinity and the Greg era. Best album for sure

[@jjmackey3101]

The Fall of Troy was THE band for me for years. Can't say I'm a huge fan of what they've done since reforming, but the first 3 albums + Ghostship are still all time for me

[@bearvsshaan]

You didn't like OK and Mukiltearth? I thought they were pretty damn good, way better than In the Unlikely Event

[@edgarbloodofficial]

I ate, slept and breathed Manipulator... I honestly can't even begin to think of how many times I've heard that album back to front

[@Creed_fan_69]

The ghostship demos were way better than the later versions they recorded

[@bearvsshaan]

@@Creed_fan_69 100% agree, I don't even think it's close

[@bearvsshaan]

@@rorz999 you should try mulkiltearth, have the songs were written before doppelganger

[@BeaverChaser]

Dillinger are gods. Every album has something on it that hits me in a way that no other has before. I feel super fortunate that I got the opportunity to see them for the first time on their fair well tour. Bitter sweet to say the least.

[@KelticKabukiGirl]

I feel lucky enough to have played gigs with them in the Dimitri era. The show Relapse discovered them. First show was Before they had name know as " that crazy band that covered Raining Blood" I Saw the show that got them banned from the Chameleon for fire breathing after the Station fire. And at the Troc with The Locust in like 2004 too, first time seeing Greg. I got to gig with the original lineup. Ben and I were both about as nuts.. basement shows even if Snapcase and Mourning Again played there along with other big bands. The BassMint. I Reading PA. Seeing Dimitri scream in my face just a couple feet away as he pointed in my face was amazing. They dug us too😅 I could scene name-drop for days but.... Leave it there....😉

[@FractalRaver]

Calculating Infinity is pretty insane just to listen to. I can appreciate it, barely even mastered but it’s very interesting. Late Dillinger I liked more probably. Really cool to see At The Drive In - One Armed Scissor here too

[@oliveroliver2828]

I think Psyopus was probably as far as you could push the emphasis on being technical/weird and still write somewhat memorable songs. Memorable as much as entire songs based around diminished, two handed tapping riffs can be! 😂

[@Dan16673]

Yeah. Harder to liaten to and groove

[@Billtuba]

Loved this video man! I have some Rorschach on vinyl! As someone who is primarily a jazz musician now (still play in a math core kinda band too) I appreciated the Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman references.

[@fe3bal]

Frontierer are absolutely smashing it right now. Just released thier third album Oxidized last week, rolling stone have constantly named them in top 20 metal albums of the year, and this one fits the bill easily!

[@transcendmeta]

So underrated!!! All 3 projects have been on constant rotation for me. Just fucking outstanding writing all around.

[@Frontierer]

thank you!

[@AndyGiesen00]

SO good!!

[@RudolfHorvath]

I also like their off-shoot band Sectioned, basically the same crazy shit but with less electronic influence. Still filthy though.

[@rezioz]

their FOURTH* album (okay okay the first one was an EP)

[@SethHMG]

I didn’t get into DEP until after they dissolved, but Greg Puciato is killing it lately. His two solo albums and the 2nd Killer Be Killed album were highlights of 2020.

[@sochioranmyaku]

I didn’t even know there was a 2nd Killer Be Killed album!

[@SethHMG]

@@sochioranmyaku dropped about a year ago now. It’s friggin great

[@SethHMG]

@@sochioranmyaku kzbin.info/www/bejne/mn6pmIiNhdukqbc

[@jakeybball]

Killer be Killed is one of the best supergroups out there

[@vladtheinhaler8940]

The Mars Volta's Deloused in the Comatorium and Francis the Mute are both masterpieces.

[@ChreeNumber12]

what is up guys, it's Chree original drummer in #12 on the first 3 records.. Finn I know I told you this privately, but people need to realize that shit you talk about is dead on and not to mention, made me giggle seeing you talk about#12 hahhah.. We toured with Dillinger and it was just fkn sick.. They are perfect every time the play. It's bananas. hahah. I loved everyday of that tour..

[@rhoadsy]

A lot of great bands here. Any love for Rolo Tomassi?

[@jamesbradford870]

Car Bomb has been around since 2000, far from new. I remember finding a demo EP of theirs on an old bootleg music site back in Korea somehow. Great video... Tony Danza is prob my fav "mathcore" band of all time. Josh Travis is straight fuckin' savage. Dillinger and Car Bomb in a close second and third, although Frontierer is slowly creepin' up there.

[@killadelphiaHC]

get all the neck stuff if you like car bomb. should my fist eye and the st album alone are enough to keep you busy.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

The ‘90s was wild for the genre. Many bands that topped each other while making names for themselves simultaneously.

[@chilibeanpaste]

Anyone who makes a playlist on youtube music, send me a link. Breather Resist was a mathcore band that spun off into a more Amphetamine Reptile style and formed Young Widows. Pointing out that influence is spot on. Haven't listened to this stuff in a few years, still recovering from Carbomb(holy shit). Botch, Converge, Coalesce, Dillinger ate big 4 for sure. So glad this genre got coverage. It would be cool if Fin did a whole episode on mathcore spin-offs. Pointing out Fall of Troy, At the Drive in was cool. How about just math-rock and it's ties to punk? Don Caballero, Battles ect. Great episode! Yes, Yes, yes and also....yes.

[@LeeBlegen]

I loved Breather Resist. I saw them with Converge and Dillinger back in the day. So sick.

[@jordanbogdan2329]

josh travis from danza is one of my favorite guitarists in heavy music. his guitar play through videos are fucking insane. dude makes it look too easy. helped revive emmure too so I know that wins him extra points with finn lmao.

[@Turbo_Toad]

Agreed

[@daveyadict_]

Dillinger, botch, and Mars Volta man. Damn. I've seen Mars Volta live, so good. Botch ended up have members create minus the bear I do believe , of which I've seen 15 times live. So good there too.

[@billmassy]

since you showed Spiritbox twice in the vid, you'd be interested to check out the bassist's old band A Textbook Tragedy. their first album is some of my favourite mathcore. they were at the centre of an underground Canadian scene of mathcore adjacent bands, as well.

[@kotaboo3]

It’s really crazy the influence that Guitar Hero had on music and the spread it had. Everything from your standard yacht rock to power metal to mathcore.

[@JFirecracker]

I still have FCPREMIX caught in my head a solid decade later, man.

[@adamsanchez28]

@@JFirecracker that was the exact song i was gonna mention from guitar hero haha

[@MANTRAPLAYSGAMES]

Tony Danza Tap Dance Extravaganza!!!! Omg, thank you for reminding me of half my brain. I used to live outside Nashville and saw these guys anytime i could. Too cool.

[@loutroise333]

Thank you so much for introducing me to Frontierer. They are INCREDIBLE

[@bearvsshaan]

DOPPELGANGER by THE FALL OF TROY is the greatest album ever recorded, EVER. Seen Dillinger 10+ times, and they are the greatest live band EVER. Best show I saw with them was the impromptu 09 Rutgers basement show. Unbelievably to see a band that big and destructive in a new brunswick basement

[@Whengirlstelephoneboys]

Ya,----but, The Mars Volta Already exist in that parking spot.

[@bluerinako]

@@Whengirlstelephoneboys lmao

[@jackmcbride9939]

Watching Car Bomb open up for The Acacia Strain back in like 2011 definitely got me into the more mathcore esque stuff. Them being on relapse and doing a split with Dave Witte’s band Burnt By The Sun also helped me find out about Grindcore like Pig Destroyer and Discordance Axis which has become such a bug part of my life. Every band mentioned in this video rules.

[@Holy_Frakula]

Hell yes Pig Destroyer Prowler in the Yard is my ultimate album. Not the lyrical content but sonically its just insane. Also loved bands like Burnt By The Sun and Coalesce. I always hear Coalesce brought up in this convos but never Burnt by the Sun so thats awesome.

[@Eirik_Bloodaxe]

That’s ironic considering TAS has a song called Carbomb lol.

[@SlashpLOder]

saw them supporting together with lee mckinney, the almighty animals as leaders in luxembourg, what a weird line up but car bomb smashed everything apart, it was completely hillarious

[@xer0signal]

“That was like 15 years ago” *cue Matt Damon Saving Private Ryan gif*

[@alexxartificial]

It feels like my community is being acknowledged! Thanks! Ive been in the math rock and mathcore scene since 2008, this is 100% accurate.

[@Goralyna123]

Personally, mathcore makes me physically sick, but because my son is a huge Dillinger fan, I’ve had waaay more exposure than I’d’ve liked. But, over time, I’ve come to appreciate the precision and musicianship of Dillinger, and I shocked my son, by telling him I thought Ben Weinman is one of the best guitarists I’ve ever heard. They were kind enough to release a song I could sing myself, One of Us is the Killer, which was a song I could really get into. Thanks for the history of mathcore. It was really interesting. Edit: By the way, I’m 62, and used to sing Linda Ronstadt covers, and do harmony arrangements for my husband’s original material.

[@ivanmondragon2735]

congrats on being a cool as heck mom, my mom wouldnt even be able to learn the names of the bands i like haha

[@yusa4467]

coolest mom

[@blackspring3207]

love this

[@boredoms1]

Also, When Forever Comes Crashing by Converge is one of the most underrated albums of all time.

[@lordfresca]

….and it’s not even close. Masterpiece.

[@HessianHunter]

After seeing Deadguy play a reunion set last weekend, it was immediately obvious that not only was Keith Huckins's guitar style a huge influence on what would become mathcore, but the way that band carried themselves on stage was too. Even as old dudes they were flailing their instruments around with abandon and absolutely oozing the chaotic energy that made bands like DEP and The Chariot infamous.

[@Jack_Rivet]

I'm not a fan of the whole Christian Hardcore scene (with the exception of the ferocious Zao, and possibly Norma Jean), but ten years ago I saw IWrestledABearOnce as an opener and stuck around for The Chariot (never heard of them to that point) and was blown away by their live show. Couldn't understand why they hadn't crossed my radar before. Then I saw their bassist spruiking Hillsong on Twitter and decided they were just a bit fundie for my taste. Still can't deny they really brought it in the live arena. I'm Australian and we're not easily impressed

[@HessianHunter]

@@Jack_Rivet That must be the tour where their Perth show got cancelled so they played a living room. That footage is fun as hell and I bet you'd get a kick out of it.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

Mathcore is one of those genres where almost every band, to me, is a must - listen.

[@redlaserfox3988]

Fact!

[@Ninjamanhammer]

Definitely one the genres with the best good bands to bad bands ratio.

[@alondite215]

Because it takes a lot of talent and ambition to pull off in the first place, so naturally it's really only the best bands who even dare try it.

[@ThatShitGood]

Melodeath is the one for me.

[@CaH6633]

I don't think I've found one mathcore band that I don't at that very least kind of like.

[@curtisbush5728]

Ben said in an early interview for heart attack fanzine that he started Dillinger escape plan as a direct opposition to the hardcore scene. He said verbatim "being in an old school NYHC band would be his own personal hell!" Which got me interested in them. Then I found out they were from a few towns over and I got even more psyched that people from my county were making music like that! I saw them in 99 blowing fire and everything! The next time I saw them was their last show with Dimitri! Phenomenal show!

[@satanofdarkwoods]

The great thing about being a fan of these bands is following the musicians and the different styles of music they play besides math core. The different projects this guys do are amazing and it’s a great gate way to many different sounds.

[@VLSkate]

number 12 will always be mi favorito

[@Onwaxwings]

Same

[@jermaineconcern1539]

Blue Dress / tori and Jesus / if these bullets could talk Legendary tracks

[@deathblow777]

Holy crap the skate teacher god! Love your trick tips dude

[@spaghettauwn1608]

I cry till the point of throwing up to Civeta Dei

[@donovanchilton5817]

Absolutely. Yes. First thing I thought of during this video was "no love for tntlly?"

[@FESTIVUSIVDRUMMER]

Ill say it again, Coalesce, extremely underrated.

[@patrickquinnsucks]

Better than protest the hero

[@prawndong24]

Love functioning on impatience one of their best for sure

[@bearvsshaan]

waited forever to see THE FALL OF TROY in a punk rock mba video, along with dillinger escape plan. As someone who has seen TDEP like 10 times, including the amazing spur-of-the-moment rutgers basement show in 09, they truly were the greatest live band ever. Also, Doppelganger by TFOT is the greatest album ever recorded. FIGHT ME.

[@Drakemiser]

Slint "Spiderland"

[@ole86]

Fantano hates it (i love it).

[@alondite215]

Jane Doe

[@pixel-hy4jx]

it'll always be jane doe for me even if doppelganger was like my first foray into the genre. it's just sooo good i can't sing it's praises enough

[@bearvsshaan]

@@ole86 fantano hates it? Didn't know he reviewed it

[@HeavyProfessor]

I remember seeing Dillinger Escape Plan live. They were throwing drum gear and mic stands into the crowd.

[@ButWhyMe...]

Hope you ran out with something lol

[@HeavyProfessor]

​@@ButWhyMe... I wish

[@rupertpupkin2660]

Was fortunate to tour with Psyopus for a whole month. Watching Chris Arp shred everynight. One of my favorite (Math,Grind) bands of all time. Anyone that was able too experience any of these bands play during the early too mid 2000s especially live. Sure was a pleasure!

[@Magdalena8008s]

Fronterier is a perfect combination of Danza and Dillinger. To those who haven't heard of them, you'll not regret it.

[@shrimmirhs292]

Shit, I've been listening to them for years now and I never made that comparison. You're absolutely right.

[@brad9718]

as a original member of danza i totally agree and love frontierer

[@xazmuthx00]

Truth new alum Oxidized is their best yet. It's stupidly insane

[@91earthlink]

They on another level of existence

[@Henry14arsenal2007]

Just dropped a new album too.

[@pancakeburglar9361]

Dillinger is one of my favorite bands, great video dude. You also nailed describing the type of people who this music appeals to lol maybe a bit too accurate.

[@KUM0]

Calculating Infinity aged like fine wine, defo one of the albums that got me into playing guitar

[@alondite215]

I wouldn't even say it's aged, it still sounds like something from the future.

[@isaackmojica8302]

@@alondite215 Its absurdily Ahead of Its time that is Ahead of this time!!!

[@queenannesrevengeban]

Man I’m sorry about your throat! As a vocalist i am always so scared of this situation going down, even just in the street. I remember the one season of HBO’s vinyl, one character got knocked in the throat at the height of his career and he was done and understandably bitter forever. Hope ya heal easy and quickly!

[@hydrakn]

19:27 The Motion Mosaic - these guys are insanely good and don't get nearly as enough love. Glad to see them show up here even if they didn't get a name shout out. The locust were also shown but not mentioned, yet they were pivotal to those early Dillinger shows imo. Some Mathcore adjacent bands that I think are fun are "ORCHARDS" and "Delta Sleep", outta UK, and of course PULSES. They are all killing it. Awesome to see BOTCH mentioned so many times in this vid. Saw them in SF just before they called quits, one of the few bands with a catalog I still listen too weekly. Rolo Tomassi, Callous Daoboys, Snooze, Thoughcrimes, etc are starting to get boosted which is great.

[@apepanthera]

Another one of those crossover bands would be Finch, with their second album Say Hello To Sunshine. Tracks like Ink, Dreams of Psylocybin really drew me in to the style, although for the band, the shift from emo/screamo to math core alienated their initial fans

[@GVLLIC]

Agreed. That album was super underrated.

[@StubbsDK]

Fucking amazing record, man!! Too bad Nate got his head stuck up his own ass, and kept quitting the band…

[@FairyCRat]

Deadguy were so influential for a band that only lasted 3 years. Without them, we probably wouldn't have had TDEP, without whom we wouldn't have had Architects, who are essentially leading much of the metalcore scene these days.

[@Coreykoon]

Is The Chariot mathcore? I could never classify them, but now after all these years I might finally know where they fit in. Also, if I could resurrect one band to see live again, it’d be them. When Josh threw me the mic and I screamed the breakdown to Daggers was one of my best memories.

[@CaH6633]

The Chariot along with Norma Jean are Christian mathcore and...if you really wanted to you could argue some of Underoath's stuff was too.

[@oddmnemosyne2869]

That Cecil Taylor comparison 🔥 Also 100% on the money about Fall of Troy, Chiodos and Norma Jean exposing a new audience to mathcore. I was too young and missed those 90s bands but in middle school and high school Fall of Troy and Norma Jean were my entry point and I came to love bands like Botch and Dillinger as a result.

[@AndScrambledEggs]

If there's one band I love, it's Dillinger Escape Plan. They played a live show like no other band, and their music was an intriguing, polyrhythmic punch in the face.

[@jameskata2893]

I saw Dillinger play in Syracuse "99 maybe in-between them blowing the electrical breakers it was one of the most violent pits I've seen. People collectively lost there shit to them.

[@williamvancourt528]

Sounds dope man, where'd you see them at? I'm a native, saw crowbar, unearth, and soulful at the lost horizon

[@bigvis497]

Syracuse shows were a fucking blast back in those days.

[@SethHMG]

Dope. Envious that you caught that lineup

[@HiramWoodworking]

Love this video Finn! Botch, Coalesce, Converge, DEP and Deadguy are still on constant rotation for me. My favorite sub genre of Hardcore for sure!!!

[@michaelvigil1417]

I’ve been waiting for you do a math core video. DEP is one of my fave bands of all time! Also some of the other bands of this genre seems like worth a listen to. Thanks Finn 👊🏼🤘🏼

[@errrfquake]

I grew up in this scene as well. And to one of your points, we did use the term "Mathcore" back then, but it wasn't used to refer to a group of artists as diverse as what's covered in the video. "Mathcore" would have mostly referred to bands like Botch, Deadguy, and Coalesce, mid-tempo bands who used odd time signatures but (besides the occasional breakdown) largely ignored most metal guitar tropes like pick squeals, gallops, fifth harmonies, etc. Most other stuff we would have just called "metalcore," or just metal or hardcore depending on who were talking to and who we were talking about. Anything that ventured into territory as esoteric as Dillinger Escape Plan was usually called "tech metal" back in the day. Maybe this was just an east coast thing, but I remember all the ancient metal blogs making these distinctions as well. Great video and very cool retrospective, thanks.

[@ogre_enterprises9398]

It's like all other genres of music to me. Some bands I like, some I don't. I'm only getting a sample of these bands from this video, but I appreciate the upload even though it took a while for me to watch this (I've been busy with work). Thanks for introducing to a style of music I've never heard of. I've heard of Dillinger (probably from your other vids) but the genre itself is foreign to me...UNTIL NOW! THANKS BRO!

[@ronaldrogan7546]

Great video and you covered a ton of bands. PsyOpus might be the only strange omission given how much buzz Chris Arp generated and his hilarious Limp Bizkit audition win. They were absolutely the wildest mathcore band of that generation, even if it was a shortlived career.

[@CaH6633]

Psyopus wasn't the biggest mathcore band by a long shot but they were the mathiest mathcore band.

[@ronaldrogan7546]

@@CaH6633 yeah I know....that's why I never said they were the "biggest"...lol

[@FloodedWithGems]

Into the Moats first album was amazing. Blotted Science as well 👌

[@xazmuthx00]

FRONTIERER-OXIDIZED is legit AOTY. Heaviest craziest album this year no hyperbole. Pure noise terror Bleed noise🤘

[@joshrodine705]

So this video prompted me to do some poking around. I found a Wikipedia page that lists mathcore bands, one of which is Car Bomb. I thought to myself, Carbomb isn't mathcore unless Nation of Ulysses is as well. This then lead me to discover that there is a "Car Bomb" that is mathcore and a "Carbomb" (some of the members of which went on to Tune in Tokyo--which also sounds a bit like Nation) which is most definitely not mathcore. Btw, until watching this video I didn't really appreciate the difference between math rock (which I enjoyed through the 90s) and mathcore (which is a bit too disjointed for me at most times). Super informative video. Well done.

[@JoelSyverud]

Under the Running Board and Calculating Infinity just hits different.. Not that there aren’t other great mathcore/chaotic hardcore albums, but those two… man

[@dozerjohn]

Thank you Dillinger Escape Plan for helping me impress that one goth girl from highschool 22 years ago, we dated for months afterwards!

[@Kyle4OH8]

Nice

[@lukem923]

Nice

[@SeymoreSparda]

Wait. Was it because you aped her in, ehem, "Punk-subculture knowledge"? This is weird! Then, is MathGoth a potential sub-sub-genre? Goth/Industrial/R&B, I can get! All of em are baby-makin' music.

[@dozerjohn]

@@SeymoreSparda It was more like - everyone around was a typical metalhead, everybody listened to same bands and I was seen as cool and knowledgable by bringing in some new weird shit but we were 16 my dude hahaha

[@SeymoreSparda]

@@dozerjohn Also, imho, Math Rock is really female-friendly. The twinkly-twinkly sound, especially when you bring in also the Midwest-Emo influences, trust me. The Japanese even got girl members in their Math Rock acts! Wanna try getting into the dating game again? Try exposing 'em to Math Rock! It works kinda like Lo-fi Hip Hop.

[@thommysguitarcorner4687]

Funfact: the first few Architects records (until Hollow Crown) were pretty much mathcore as well

[@kage6613]

Same with early Stray From the Path

[@CaseyHayesVocals]

@@kage6613 people over profit is a banger

[@billmassy]

their song "Year In Year Out / Up and Away" features Greg Puciato from Dillinger as well!

[@prawndong24]

Yeah I liked a few of their old songs but don't like they're new stuff but it's pretty popular so each to their own I guess

[@shaneharrington3655]

Speaking of maths influence on other genres; Ghostmanes Lazeretto is so mathy… At The Drive In, Mars Volta and Blood Brothers especially, literally changed my life. And thanks for turning me onto Frontierer, had never heard of them.

[@ashleybrown4754]

Fuckin love Blood Brothers

[@brandonpratt9353]

Great vid! 😊 My only thought would be; although they’re hailed as the forefathers of what would become the Djent movement, I definitely think Sikth should’ve gotten an honorable mention here. I guess you could also put them in a ‘tech metal’ box or a mathcore adjacent box but the math and jazz influence is super, super strong with them; and they’ve influenced thousands of bands that came after them not least of all Periphery! 😊

[@SanSabath]

Fall of Troy is one of my favorite bands. Thomas Erak being able to sing and play the guitar as technical as he does is really amazing. Manipulator will always be one of my most listened to albums of all time