DEI is Hateful, Immoral, Destructive, and Sadistic: Open Therapy with Dr Andrew Hartz

In the 17th installment of the Open Therapy Podcast series, Andrew and I discuss the many harms of DEI and its lack of an evidence base.
Andrew Hartz, Ph.D., is the founder of the Open Therapy Institute. To find a therapist, become a member, or learn about workshops through the Open Therapy Institute, go to: www.opentherap...
_____________________________________________________________________
If you would like to contact me, my website is: theradicalcent... and I am on twitter @JLeslieElliott
And if you appreciate this ongoing project and would like to support my continued work in this area you can chip in at any of the following (thank you very much!):
www.paypal.me/...
www.buymeacoff...
/ theradicalcenter

[@johndoeboston123]

Dr. Andrew Hartz is one of the kindest, most sincere, most articulate people on the internet. He is one of the few who can label an ideology hateful, in a loving way. He showcases not merely good arguments, but the correct _emotional approach_ to overcoming hatred. He deserves to be heard far and wide.

[@dreamdiction]

"After DEI training, people experience an increase in "hostile attribution bias". 4:06 DEI trainings will identify certain target groups and label them as "privilege oppressors" and teach everyone to see those groups as having hostile malicious intent even through mundane behaviours (microaggressions), DEI training coaches people to view those groups as aggressors whom they must defend themselves against. The people who promote DEI trainings have not conducted randomized control trials to show that their DEI training interventions have a positive effect in the real world, they don't even seem to think they need evidence to support their claim that their practices are necessary and helpful, there are lots of reasons to suspect that what they are teaching is actively destructive and harmful to people. They feel no need to prove that this is helping people to get along, improving well-being or efficiency."

[@Individual_Lives_Matter]

It’s a faith. It even has some mystic elements to it. The concept of false and authentic identity consciousness. The intersectional concept of systemic racism is almost like a miasma or a Holy Ghost that is everywhere and affects everyone, and can only be seen with special training.

[@nascar0509]

"Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice'." Thomas sowell.

[@Individual_Lives_Matter]

I’m not a therapist but, if a person is forced into choosing between seeing themselves as a coward or a newly enlightened “ally”, many people will rationalize themselves into the hero role. This is why the crybully strategy is so effective. Catch someone, who hasn’t thought deeply enough about a complex issue to defend themselves, off guard and force them to affirm your assertions or be labeled evil in some way. The born agains did this to me as a teenager. They handed me a little pamphlet. I read it and the next thing I heard was “accept Jesus now or your going to hell.” If what you’re saying has value, you won’t need to scare or bully others into agreement.

[@meisherenow]

The increase in hostile attribution bias should not be taken as evidence that DEI indoctrination doesn't work. On the contrary, increased HAB is DEI's explicit goal, and, sadly, it often succeeds.

[@Individual_Lives_Matter]

They also create the monster they’re fighting, which was mostly imaginary to begin with.

[@S070-g8q]

Yes. It's mass dellusion.

[@NJIT22]

We have another example of derangement that penetrating counseling and medical field in a form of claims that “cultural awareness” training is - outdated and ineffective. Instead, everyone should go through “cultural humility” training which is progressive and- desirable by clients.

[@Knuck_Knucks]

The strategy to combat DEI in the work place is to politely and professionally disagree with the policy. Once they level accusations of racism , sexism , or some 'phobia', that's when you approach HR and charge them with defamation, harassment and racial prejudice if applicable. Then, it'll be time to lawyer up... 🐿

[@S070-g8q]

The problem I see with that is they won't really outright accuse you to your face. You will just be the outsider who will now be picked on a gossiped about.

[@TheSwissChalet]

@@S070-g8q WHO CARES???!! You really would care about "being picked on and gossiped about"? What are you, ten?

[@ellyw7201]

@@TheSwissChaletIf a person works roughly 40 hours per week in a hostile environment -- darn right they would care about being picked on and gossiped about. Labor law recognizes that a "hostile work environment" is a serious issue that an employee doesn't have to tolerate; the stress of working in a hostile environment is bad for a person's physical and mental health.

[@TheSwissChalet]

@ man up and grow some thick skin

[@findbridge1790]

I'm an Italian-American man. I was physically assaulted twice by a [male] Native American prof. in my MSW program. they were minor assaults, but would be considered legally as assault. after the second time, I complained to the dean, and she basically put the blame on me. this was in 2010 - 2011.

[@ReVoltaire]

What he's repeatedly terming "aggression" is better or more truly expressed as naked, hateful overt racism and sexism. It seems like here we're trapped in double speak and Orwellian euphemisms -- even in the critique itself! In terms of bureaucratic DEI, I think Hannah Arendt's concept of the (often) "banality of evil" is useful. Highly recommend her study Eichmann in Jerusalem to one and all.

[@AndyJarman]

"Safety-ism" is an outgrowth of the obsession with catastrophising suboptimal situations that DEI relies on for it's authority. Where I am currently working the speed limit in the car park has been reduced from 12mph (18kph) to 8mph (12kph). Have you ever tried driving through a large car park (small shopping mall sized) at 8mph? It is slower than the speed of a funeral cortege. What evidence is there this actually increases safety? Furthermore, there is one forklift truck which I have never seen used. Because of this forklift truck's presence in a largely empty warehouse, several hundred staff members are compelled to walk on tortuous prescribed routes demarcated by yellow lines on the floor. It looks frankly insane to see people walking along these prescribed routes in single file through an empty warehouse in "fear" that someone may at some time start up and drive a forklift truck. As with DEI safety-ism is richly tainted with sado-masochistic, even psychopathic demeanour. The more staff inconvenience themselves the more "safe" they are, or the more overtly they pay homage to the cult of safety. It is utterly utterly bonkers, it destroys worker's ability to discern real risk by "gas-lighting" and emphasises the ownership of the will of employees by the corporation. It is there to crush and cudgel opinion and descent in the guise of a virtuous concern for others. Furthermore, I spend about 7 hours a day spraying the City's roadside vegetation with an insecticide to abate an infestation of an agricultural pest insect. I am one of many hundreds of people engaged in this eradication programme. And yet at the end of the day the water used to rinse out the backpack spray apparatus must be contained as hazardous waste. When I point out the insanity of the degree of concern for "the environment" my coworkers (many of whom hold PhD.s in engineering and agronomy) they reply - we must look after the environment though and be mindful of pollution. There are two hundred people spraying public areas with a hundred gallons of this insecticide every day for months on end. And the concern is for the "harm" the water used to rinse out the equipment may do to the environment. People are trained daily to disregard their own sense of proportion, their own critical faculties and their personal agency. And this training is justified out of a "zero" tolerance for "harm". It's straight out of the playbook of the Jack Nicholson film "One flew over the Cuckoo's nest".

[@ChollieD]

As a sometime environmental site safety coordinator in the US, my opinion is that excessive safetyism in the workplace promotes hazard blindness. If they're all taken care of for you, then you don't need situational awareness. People go to sleep.

[@SilviaHartmann]

It is fantastic to see that you are here, have not succumbed to the trauma cult, and are still thinking clearly. Bravo.

[@TheSwissChalet]

This is all so hilarious to me. There really is some sort of demonic possession going on that these people cannot see how insane and ridiculous their views and actions are. In my opinion, stupid should hurt. We don't need to "protect" the stupid people. Let whatever hazards the world might present to them go ahead and play out. We have to uphold natural selection somehow, otherwise we really are doomed to live in "Idiocracy"...I mean, ARE WE NOT ALREADY THERE???

[@Banana04218]

Great conversation, happy New Year!

[@theradicalcenter]

Thanks! Happy new year to you, too!

[@MartyH99]

Anyone noticed the lack of inclusivity in DEI? They are heavily focussed on sex, race, sexual expression but ignore almost every other axis of difference eg attractiveness - beautiful people are advantaged and ugly people are discriminated against! Why does DEI ignore all of these other axes of difference? Bias perhaps? Similarly Diversity is very specifically limited in its diversity.. The foundational principal of diversity is that institutions should reflect their community. Every community has children, old people etc - ever heard DEI advocate for this 35% of the community to be included in workplaces etc? Only the DEI groups are agitated for!

[@AndyJarman]

So much on contemporary HR obsessions are a rebellion against the self regulation promoted by the concept of sin. Pride was a sin, revenge was not something we felt justified taking unilaterally except in extremis. Corporate bullying (oppression) is inculcated in a pursuit of a state of blamelessness. The unjustified extremes to which people in the workplace are persecuted for minor infractions of a questionable code of conduct are frequently quite extraordinary.

[@non_ideological_transexual7414]

Lady Caddy Stanton rewrote the bible.. Yet too many women are wanting micro control of others

[@SilviaHartmann]

Hate is the absence of love. That's the core problem, correctly identified. But what is love? What if it was completely real, an invisible something that people fight for because they need it to function, just like food and water? What if the absence of love causes stress, disempowers, causes anxiety, then fear, then panic and finally, an explosion of aggression, followed by depression? What if the DEI programs are designed to disempower using this structure? What if without understanding how love is real, none of these symptoms can never be resolved? That's what I've been working on since 1993. Modern Stress Management is the simple replacement for the DEI insanity and can be applied right now to turn this around. It's truly, all about love.

[@TheSwissChalet]

Hate is not the absence of love. The absence of love is apathy. Hate is passionate, like love. This DEI crap is about control, jealously, and the spirit of revenge. You think you can hug your way out of cultural Marxism? You have a lot to learn.

[@aaronkindsvatter5615]

Wowo I really could not agree more. The repression of dissent is a startling insight. Excellent. Aaron Kindsvatter

[@aaronkindsvatter5615]

Andrew and Leslie, you and I think a lot alike I have just used this as a reference in an article I am writing. This video is a great resource

[@patavinity1262]

Dr Hartz seems to bizarrely miss the point behind the concept of 'virtue signalling'. It doesn't matter if *he* doesn't think X behaviour is virtuous or not, the point is that the people doing it *do* think that.

[@AMonikaD]

DEI seems to enbolden and nudge other groups and individuals into open and unashamed racism. People that perhaps would have harbored their feelings internally, now get encouraged to flaunt them for claps and cheers. Horrendous situation. Its open racism tucked under the banner of DEI.

[@dambar7486]

Two points. When you actually encounter this kind of social justice it is always in a mix of those who genuinely are trying to be well intentioned and are reachable and those who are so lost in the ideology that they are/have become toxic. Calling out the cruelty will mean the reachable ones who think its about being nice will close their minds against you. Second. This really applies to gender critical ultras too.

[@Christine-eb1sc]

As again a government worker. I had to do an online 2 hour session on ethics, nevermind that this government has had a big amount financial fraud. Wasn't paid for my time Then. "Systemic racism. I was spared this training because I work under the police department and of course, since it wasn't during my scheduled work, I would not have been paid for my time .

[@nascar0509]

Yep, it is envy and resentment in a nutshell.

[@LLLMYOB]

Thank you Leslie for another great conversation that illuminates the atrocities our country is experiencing through therapy, academic institutions, etc. Listening to your podcasts is therapeutic for me 🪷

[@cestmoi4532]

Happy new year! Thanks for the great conversations! Looking forward to parts 2 through 4.

[@formanimacion]

over the last 10 years at my current job, i have witnessed the gradual distancing from me, ( i work for an american company in central america) i am the only white guy on my team and one of the few in country in my company , i have been in and witnessed all the changes regarding DEI training. it has been very awkward and exclusive, and during all the feedback sessions and surveys i have been reluctant to express my concerns for fear of my job. I hope this ideaology is taken out of the work place its made my job hostile, I feel like im on egg shells. I used to have friends at work and be able to socialize.

[@jayadams9794]

Just act like people dont exist. Go robot mode man. Get your check and fkkn leave. You shouldn't want to be having friends at work anyway thats stupid.

[@TheSwissChalet]

Find another job where they appreciate you. Start looking now.

[@findbridge1790]

There are a number of groups regarding men's rights; one is called Justice for Men and Boys. There are others.

[@jefft8597]

Don was never the brightest lemon in the fruit basket.

[@KarenKennedy-lq8nt]

Will never forget what he said about the unvaxxed! That we should basically all die and have no rights.

[@dani7190]

I like to think of him as the male Joy Reid

[@NinjaKittyBonks]

@@dani7190 ...OUCH! Though I put her within the top 3 of worst today.... that is saying a LOT!

[@bsst1123]

Another fantastic episode!

[@findbridge1790]

It's being done by the same people that contrived the Rwandan genocide. ie MI6/CIA et al

[@prader1330]

Part of the reason someone might identify as a "Wisconsinite" is that, originally, the states were envisioned as individual and separate nations. We have lost much of this sense over the past 200+ years of the federal government taking on for itself more responsibility, and thus more power at the expense of the states. This is where statements such as "The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance" come from. It was the people's job to ensure each element of government maintained its proper place. We failed in that regard. Heck, the very founders who voiced those statements brushed them aside practically as soon as the ink was dry on the foundational documents of their new country. But what I really wanted to mention is that I suspect this DEI thing is an application of Critical Race Theory which is itself just an extension of Critical Theory. CT was brought to us courtesy of the Frankfurt School. If you ever want to understand what is going on with the modern left, the Frankfurt School is a great place to start. Unfortunately, much of the information about them has vanished from online view over the past, I'd say, 10 years. So you will have your work cut out for you. But in a nutshell... The Frankfurt School was like a poison pill we brought on ourselves post-WWII in the form of all those German socialist "thinkers" that found their way into academia, sciences, etc. here in the U.S.. Critical Theory is basically just a methodology of weakening a culture by hacking away at its core principles, I'm sure the Hegelian Dialectic (Thesis==>Anti-Thesis==>Synthesis) fits in there somewhere somehow but I don't recall any direct mention of it in my study of the Frankfurt School specifically. Bare bones- the culture is weakened by constant criticism without any actionable, credible, or effective solutions. And if you notice, not that the right is on-deck for sainthood, but these leftist agitator types hardly ever propose anything of value to actually fix the problems they incessantly complain about. The closest they come up with to a workable solution is this DEI nonsense. Because the objective is not a solution to those supposed problems. The goal is a revolution that replaces the hobbled culture/nation that has been systematically weakened, and ultimately destroyed from within, with something new.

[@dreamdiction]

The were not "German Socialist Thinkers", they were the people the Germans fought against and you brought them into the US by being on the wrong side in WW2.

[@prader1330]

@@dreamdiction Germany declared war on us. After we declared war on Japan for... sinking our Pacific fleet in harbor. An argument can definitely be made for us staying out of it as long as we did up to that point but Japan needed its oil to continue the conquest of Asia, Germany was absolutely on the "Wrong side" of WW2 and clearly the aggressor, and Italy was... well... failing miserably in its own conquest of Africa. So here we are. And as far as them "not being Socialist thinkers"... they were Marxists. All Marxists are Socialists even if not all Socialists are Marxists. Such as Nazis and Communists who are also Socialists, but not Marxists. You are partly correct though that Nazis utterly despised both Communists and Marxists, but if I remember my 1930's Germany that was more of an internal struggle to consolidate power and not "who the Germans were fighting against." The Germans would go on to slaughter whole swaths of people who were not Marxists.

[@prader1330]

And I say all this as a person of mostly German descent. So if anyone has an incentive to perform the kind of mental gymnastics required to somehow portray the Germans as the "Good guys" in WW2, it's me. Hell the Germans can hardly even be called the good guys in WW1, which WW2 was just an extension of. About the best I can say for them there was... they honored their treaties? EDITED TO ADD for future readers: This was an additional comment to a reply by myself to someone who replied to my comment that the Frankfurt School were not Socialists (I pointed out that the members of the Frankfurt school were Marxists, who ARE definitely Socialists) and we brought them here by, ahem, "being on the wrong side of WW2." My first comment, which appears to have been deleted along with the comment I replied to, thoroughly refuted both points. This was just tacked on, so without context looks entirely out of place.

[@dreamdiction]

@@prader1330 Yes, KZbin auto deletes comments. Here is a researched summary of DEI. "After DEI training, people experience an increase in "hostile attribution bias". DEI trainings identify certain target groups and label them as "privilege oppressors" and teach everyone to see those groups as having hostile malicious intent even through mundane behaviours (microaggressions), DEI training coaches people to view those groups as aggressors whom they must defend themselves against. The people who promote DEI trainings have not conducted randomized control trials to show that their DEI training interventions have a positive effect in the real world, they don't even seem to think they need evidence to support their claim that their practices are necessary and helpful, there are lots of reasons to suspect that what they are teaching is actively destructive and harmful to people. They feel no need to prove that this is helping people to get along, improving well-being or efficiency."

[@jaik195701]

Horkheimer and Adorno launched the long march through the institutions. It worked.

[@josephgraham3006]

Part two soon please

[@andysturges3979]

This guy is killing it.

[@ryanrogers8046]

Fantastic conversation!

[@myboyboris]

Four minutes in and already saved to favorites.

[@Capnbrunch]

I used to be woke and then I watched a few videos on objectivism view of the world on the Ayn Rand institute and it changed my life. I don’t remember what video it was but it was one of the videos where the professor was Leonard Plinkoff.

[@S070-g8q]

I really appreciate this conversation. I really do. But it's about 20-25 years too late.

[@TheSwissChalet]

Absolutely. The fact that so many (especially all the liberals who all the sudden decided to pay attention to reality) are sounding the alarm about what others have been warning about for, like, forever!!

[@mljrotag6343]

Yup.

[@Zzyzzyx]

Happy new year, all!

[@robertahenry5874]

Great job, I feel limited in my consumption of Halloween constumes, comedy ,art, music, fashion, entertainment and politics. Luckily I hang out with friends that trash talk and joke around constantly

[@aaronc1999]

Please do have a follow-up to this subject in your wonderfully clarifying manner!

[@Chris-hq7nl]

Thank you.

[@dani7190]

Please have Chad O Jackson on your show. He is doing incredible work tracing the history of DEI. I wish clinical psychology and social work programs would show his movie Uncle Tom II.

[@lkae4]

Yes, it's a different moral system, a different civilization. It's forcing counter-culture on normal, unsuspecting employees. The really troubling thing for me is that this started with Myers Briggs in universities and work places decades ago.

[@nascar0509]

Narcissism and psychopathy...🤔

[@jayadams9794]

Problem solved........never go to college 😂

[@pathacker4963]

It is hateful. And it’s time it ended.

[@chrisalmendra4370]

it's Wisconsinite!!🤣 (and **yes** we *are* different from minnesota😒☺)

[@psyclotronxx3083]

Narcissist is such an overused word

[@juanzulu1318]

Thx

[@robertahenry5874]

Oh, I even make fun of my wonderfull Christian friend and he gets back at me. Ha ha

[@scottkeeler2306]

Trust the science.

[@oliviamaynard9372]

It really isn't though. This title is not mentally healthy

[@TheSwissChalet]

Yes it is, wake up from your liberal coma and join reality.