Therapist Reacts to TWILIGHT: BREAKING DAWN (part 1)

Jonathan and Alan have almost reached the end of the Twilight saga. Can they make it through?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright break down what's wrong with the relationships in Breaking Dawn. There's some pretty toxic messaging about romantic relationships, with manipulation and abuse and lots of other issues, but at least the plot gets a little more fun! Or at least there's more supernatural punching and a creepy CG baby, and some decent filmmaking happening at times. And Kristen Stewart staring blankly for long periods of time. But also some decent acting at times! It's a nice change of pace!
We finally finish out the series in Breaking Dawn part 2:
• Therapist Reacts to TW...
And check out all our other episodes on the Twilight saga:
• Twilight Saga
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright & Alan Seawright
Edited by: David Sant
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis

[@kristinetaulbut4975]

I watched twilight with my mother who was close to the end with ahlzheimers and she said “what the hell is wrong with these assholes?” I laughed so damn hard

[@elisebond]

🤣 that is the best

[@The_Moving_finger_writes]

😅😂🤣🤣

[@2degucitas]

Yay Mom!

[@lilxsweet]

😂🤣😂😂😂😂

[@NS-wj6kl]

Lmao

[@cassie6146]

These men deserve some kind of medal for their service in dissecting these movies.

[@trinaq]

Indeed, we are eternally greatful to Jonathan and Alan for watching this dreck, and telling us how NOT to behave in relationships!

[@celineemily4753]

Oh my! I would love for them to analyze Jinx and Vi from Arcane 🙏🏻 that would be so dope!

[@aeri_taylors-version]

their sacrifice shall be noted

[@zhongxina8426]

And ironically, a therapy session or two.

[@dancortat7445]

Yeah, I feel sorry for Alan and Jonathan, but I'm enjoying it lol They could do a video on Kate (2021), it's so cool Sorry if I phrased anything wrong, English is not my native language

[@thatgrumpychick4928]

I feel sorry for Charlie. Imagine it being from his point of view. Your daughter finds a guy. She completely cha he's where if he says jump and she says how high. She constantly has marks and injuries that she dismisses and hand waves away. She gets married right after she's legally allowed. Then she disappears for weeks with no contact. What else can you think other than your daughter is being abused

[@LilyRose8959]

And then you have a grandchild that ages 10 years in like 3 months.

[@goreandhoodies3626]

Same here he knows if he says he isn't a good man you shouldn't date him she will just go after him harder or slowly (or go off herself) kill herself and have nightmares and not take care of herself till she is with him again, also the kid thing is basically he knows she isn't fully human but he can't say he knows without him being killed too

[@hadley_mcdonald]

That sounds way more interesting than the original series

[@deaf.dragon7178]

Yeah but Charlie doesn't care ya'know? He was okay with her getting $@'d

[@eileensnow6153]

@@deaf.dragon7178 nooooo, he just knew Jacob was better for her. She doesn’t know what she needs, see?? (This is all sarcasm, that’s 100% something an abuser would say and that’s exactly how Charlie acted.)

[@toraokami5178]

Something I found interesting in the 4th book is that: now that Bella isn’t human anymore, Edward actually treats her as an equal in their relationship. Which is sad because thats what he was supposed to be doing the whole time. I get that she was human and he is a super human but like… I don’t know how to explain it. I immediately caught that when it happened and I was like “WHY! WHY NOW??!!” I’m so annoyed that there is a hidden message of ‘you have to literally be my equal for me to actually treat you like a person in a relationship’

[@noelbernabe8704]

The explanation is simple. He was controlling because he needed to protect her. Once she no longer needed his protection, the issue became moot. Thats the nice thing about their problems, they were basically self correcting.

[@rogueally7993]

Welcome to a romance written by a fundamentalist Christian.

[@melaninallure2005]

That's because he no longer worries about keeping her safe anymore

[@catswillruletheworld]

More than keeping her safe, she was also very breakable. He had to hold a lot of himself back because he could kill her in a moment of carelessness. Once she was a vampire, he didn't have to hold anything back.

[@RilianSharp]

it's how you wish your relationship would go with your abuser who you love. that something magical would happen and suddenly he's the fantasy guy you imagined he was when you fell in love. it's like the exact opposite of the movie Enough, which is also a fantasy for abuse victims. sometimes you wish your abuser would suddenly be a respectful loving spouse, and sometimes you wish you'd left the first time that monster hit you and you'd learned self-defense and then beat the shit out of him when he showed up again.

[@LilBluSky0417]

I'd like to point out that "the grandson of a chief" doesn't mean a whole lot in native society because our chiefs are ELECTED into the position and are NOT inherited. Which is why there's literally no such thing as native princes or princesses.. it's just not a thing.

[@kristalburns3490]

It doesnt mean a whole lot in a wolf pack either for sorta the same reasons.

[@adedow1333]

That's really cool, though! Thanks for the insight! Ya learn something new every day

[@mykodibear17]

@@kristalburns3490 To add to this idea: If you didn't know, the whole "alpha wolf" theory was disproven decades ago despite how it stuck in pop culture. It only applies (and loosely at that) to wolves stuck in captivity with wolves they're not related to, primarily because wolves in the wild operate on a family structure and being in captivity with other wolves disrupts this structure. "Packs" are typically just one family of wolves with the "Alphas" being the father & mother (Now referred to as breeding male and breeding female). Literally the only thing that makes you an alpha is being the mom/dad of the rest of the pack. So, yeah, being the grandson of the former alpha doesn't mean anything because literally your entire pack is the grandson/daughter of the alphas. When wolves take a mate, they usually leave their pack and become the alphas of their own pack, so being an alpha isn't an innate trait, and is neither a title to be inherited nor won.

[@hambydandy334]

So Pocahontas wouldn't actually be considered a princess, even though Disney markets her that way?

[@anastasiiazdorikova]

@@hambydandy334 as well as Mulan the biggest badass among all pf the Disney protagonists

[@Iratepandabear]

One of the things that's so interesting/sad to do when thinking about these movies is imagining if it was all from Charlie's perspective. Imagine, your daughter, who you haven't spent more than like, a day with since she was a small kid is now going to be living with you as a nearly adult woman and you're nervous, you're just trying your best to make your home seem as comfortable and fun as possible, and she gets here, and it's awkward, but slowly and surely, you're getting there, starting to bond all over again. Then she tells you she met a boy at school, and you're doing the grumpy weird dad thing where you get all up in your feelings about it, but secretly you're happy that she's adjusting, and she's making friends and dating and having a good time, who knows? This Edward kid seems nice enough, never gives anyone any trouble. His family's a little odd, but Dr. Cullens an awesome guy and he's just trying his best to raise his kids, like you. Then, after their first date, she comes running into the house, screaming at him, at you, and slamming her bedroom door in your face, and of course you're concerned because what the hell happened on this date that would cause this kind of reaction? What did he do? Was she safe? Is she safe now? Then she tells you the same thing your wife told you when she left all those years ago and insists that she needs to leave and can't be around you anymore. And you let her, because as heart wrenching as it was to hear, you're not about to make her stay with you and be miserable. But in the back of your head, you're still incredibly concerned, because what. The hell. Happened? Fast forward about a day or so, you're daughters in the hospital with multiple injuries, and Edward found her. Edward said she fell down a flight of stairs. Fast forward even later, Edward leaves, and your kid is nearly catatonic. She's never leaving her bed, she doesn't speak to you or her friends, or her mom, ever. And every night she wakes up screaming from night terrors. She randomly leaves the house for a day, goes god knows where, and comes back, with Edward. Now they're getting married. They haven't even graduated yet, but they're getting married. And on their honeymoon, she gets sick. "Edward's taking her to an exclusive hospital" Carlisle tells you. And when she comes back, when you see her for the first time, she's holding a kid who looks exactly like she did as a baby, and her eyes aren't the same color, and you're pretty sure she's not breathing anymore. And you realize she's a Cullen now.

[@Dipanjanakusary]

O my God no wonder Charlie was against Edward we're made to see the story from Bella's pov but if you see it this was it Was a horrid time for the man and Bella doesn't even care

[@wintergarden7539]

I considered Charlie's POV, but the way you detail his story line is perfect. This would be a good project for a film school student.

[@adaliaalvarez7269]

That...was horrifying.

[@LibreDeCulpa]

This is so sad....when the books came out, I was recovering from surgery and my dad gifted the entire collection so I would stay in bed reading...and I cried so hard for that dad and promised to treat mine better...thank you for reminding me of that!

[@Ganychan]

This was so good.

[@joliesimmonds5783]

I think it's dangerous to trash Edward for not wanting to have sex with his wife. Even when married, consent is STILL key. Some people like it rough but in his case he clearly wasn't into that. No one should ever be pressured into doing something sexual that makes them feel guilty / uncomfortable.

[@OscarGomez-hg8cb]

Agreed, but the problem is that in here he’s not framed as not enjoying it or anything like that. He outright says it was the best night “of his existence”. The problem is they frame it as him trying to protect her when she clearly doesn’t want him to protect her that way.

[@nevaehschattenfluegel9652]

@@OscarGomez-hg8cb he actually is scared for her safety and I think in this instance it is his right to say he does not want sex with her while she is human,because he wants her safe (from him). It may be sounded stupid,but see it from Edwards point: you know there is a really high chance that you will not be able to control yourself and you will therefore hurt the woman you love. How would that make you feel,if you wounded her because you had sex with her against your better judgment,just to please her. That's rather emotional blackmailing on her part. She just does not care about his feelings if something happens. Yes you should not make decisions for other people if they do not ask you, but here Edward has a decision to make about his feelings too and that is a valid point to consider.

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

Yeaaaah, but this was because purity culture to counteract him being a murderous control freak. It's unhealthy from his prospective and very sketchy from ours since we know WHY she wrote him like that. Which was to make up for his other flaws, except it doesn't work like that. Edit: Basically not fucking your wife to death isn't the moral plus she thought it was.

[@arturoaguilar6002]

Out of context, I agree. But this isn't "some people"; this is Edward, and deciding for Bella without considering what she wants has been his whole MO.

[@kathiekalara6]

Thank you! People saying that Edward is withholding sex from her as a bargaining chip literally don't ever see the irony when they defend women from the over the top manosphere channels that claim women are doing the same thing to men. You have every right not to refuse to have sex with someone. In this case, Edward is scared and insecure because he doesn't know his strength/how his self control will hold up. He doesn't feel comfortable. It doesn't matter why. He shouldn't have to engage in sex if he doesn't want to.

[@thepurpz]

I appreciate you guys really calling out imprinting for what it is. I remember in 2009 when the Twilight hype was enormous, and some fans got so defensive about Jacob imprinting on Renesmee, not wanting to admit that it was grooming or anything predatory - I heard a lot of "don't take it so seriously, it's a fantasy world with WEREWOLVES ffs"... I was a victim of grooming that escalated into molestation and rape when I was 8, so as an adult now, it feels really nice to see someone essentially stand up for victims of grooming. Especially to see two men do it. So thank you.

[@tbow7785]

Look I’m sorry that happened to you. All be it, it wasn’t a werewolf who did those horrible things to you either. And there are cultures that still today betroth their children from young ages, it’s called an arranged marriage. As long as nothing sexual takes place while they’re children that’s not grooming at all! There’s a difference. And I’m sorry again but there’s absolutely a difference between a pedophile grooming a child and a mythical character imprinting in a fictional story!

[@bored_potato]

@@tbow7785 forgive me if I misunderstood what you're trying to say, but did you just say that arranged marriages are okay (even if the other partner is a child so long as nothing "sexual" happens) and that Jacob the werewolf guy "imprinting" on a newborn baby is different than a real life person grooming a literal child to be their romantic partner for life?

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

The whole concept if effed up on so many levels, because the way it is described, Jacob is _also_ the victim of what is basically mystical mind-control: "Here, imprint on his newborn and then spend the next years or 1-2 decades like a monk, raising someone else's child, without you having a say in it or being able to chose a healthier relationship with another adult your age", while the baby's mother goes gallivanting off with her immortal lover to enjoy her immortal life without consequences or responsibilities. So neither Jacob nor Renesmee get a choice? Yurgh.

[@Xehanort10]

It's always annoying when fanboys and fangirls defend realistic stuff being portrayed wrong in otherwise unrealistic series with "It's about "insert fictional thing here." It doesn't have to make sense." When if you put real things like drug addiction, abusive relationships, paedophilia and so on you should portray them realistically even in vampire, werewolf, ghost and the like series.

[@theunderstatement6842]

@@tbow7785 please explain how, as an adult, looking at a child and knowing they're being raised to be your future spouse is not grooming or predatory. Have you no idea what marriages usually entail? Just because some cultured still gets their kids engaged at young ages, doesn't mean it's ok. also, who cares what Jacob's species tEcHnIcAlLy is?? it's a completely irrelevant point because the message and implications behind imprinting are still abhorrent whether he's a werewolf or something-or-other. you also decided not to include the fact that the person Jacob imprinted on was a NEWBORN BABY. teen girls are already idealising edward and bella's relationship despite it being horrible and abusive, and now they've got this garbage to look forward to within the same story.. how is any of this even remotely okay???

[@trinaq]

"YOU NICKNAMED MY DAUGHTER AFTER THE LOCH NESS MONSTER?!" Stephanie Meyer actually wrote this line, it was approved, it made it into the screenplay, and poor Kristen Stewart was forced to say it. 🤦🏽‍♀️

[@hanananah]

And it's the best part of the movie 😂

[@arachne6074]

I laughed really hard the first 20 times I heard it.

[@ajmalaika1287]

Not just that, it wasn't supposed to be a comedic moment

[@GamerGrovyle]

What the fuck did you think would happen when you give her any kind of name with the letters "Nes" in it?!

[@marlyd]

And to be fair, she really tried to make it work. Props to her for giving it her all.

[@marylancelot]

The part where Edward asks Jacob to talk Bella into having an abortion is so much worse in the book because he also invites Jacob to have sex with Bella and make her pregnant with a human baby (shapeshifter wolf baby?) instead. All this without considering what Bella wants. ALSO the only reason Bella wants to keep Renesmee anyway is because of her obsession with Edward. Bella never wanted to be a mom in the first place but because the baby is an extention of Edward - well.

[@christinahoneycutt8922]

I read the books. That is true!

[@m_li_ma]

Yup. I read the books when I was like 12, and that part where Edward asks Jacob to have sex with her was literally traumatizing. And I remember, as a fan os the saga I thought Edward was husband goals ☠️

[@nekkomimi7343]

Wtf 🤬

[@samiai8905]

HUH?!

[@jeringatai3156]

I read the books and that didnt happen

[@gayfrogribbit]

That was not a damn love triangle. That was a love corner Bella got backed into by a possessive wolf she didn't even have feelings for and a strangely both possessive and neglectful vampire who abandoned her MULTIPLE TIMES. Bella has got to need therapy from that. (Edit: The CC calling Bella "Fangtastic Wife" and Edward "Sparky" is making me wheeze Edit 2: WOLFY- I CAN'T)

[@lucifang]

Something that was only vaguely mentioned in one book - vampires have seductive magic to draw in their prey. So Bella is actually under a spell. That's why she literally got sick when he abandoned her.

[@gayfrogribbit]

@@lucifang OMFL THAT'S SO MUCH WORSE

[@radhiadeedou8286]

@@lucifang but vampire powers don't work on her

[@shinrin-yoku3877]

It's true, she never liked Jacob more than a friend really and Edward always abandoned her

[@gayfrogribbit]

​@@shinrin-yoku3877 EXACTLY. I see so many people, especially men who maybe watched one movie, say that she "lead Jacob on". As embarrassed as I am to admit, little gay boy me was obsessed with twilight as a preteen. I read every book at least five times over. She never claimed to have feelings for him, he just misinterpreted her friendship and affection because *he* had feelings for her, then got mad when she didn't reciprocate those feelings.

[@abbywolffe4114]

You know what I just realized? The bruises on Bella after their wedding night are pretty clear, but for a vampire who can split a boulder in half, he did a pretty great job controlling himself. A normal human could give someone those bruises. If they'd thought about it for more than ten seconds without brooding they could've taken care of her marks and not made it a big deal.

[@goreandhoodies3626]

Even so most if not all bruises could have never happened if this movie ans script wasn't written by extreme Christians (aka Edward on bottom)

[@Sammy-.-.-]

@@goreandhoodies3626 No, that wouldn’t have worked for one reason, Bella would have had too much control. Also I’m guessing a 100 year old virgin had a lot of pent up frustration, no way would he have not gotten a little rough since he’s ultra strong and all.

[@nicholnunn8074]

Haha I was thinking the same thing. Getting bruised during sex isn’t that unusual. You are literally bumping into each other repeatedly and trying to hold on to each other for purchase lol. If you bruise easily, not uncommon. She didn’t feel beat up, he was so dramatic lol.

[@TychoKingdom]

@@goreandhoodies3626 That literally doesn't make any sense. Mumbleward being on bottom doesn't delete his hands. If you must hate. Make it make sense. 🙄

[@JoeyisDREADful]

@@TychoKingdom If this wasn't written by a really conservative repressed Christian she'd have tied him to something night 1, lmaaao.

[@kthxbi]

I mean the whole "pan round at the wedding and the audience is 'gone' because we're trying to illustrate how enraptured they are with each other to the point where everything else fades away", is basically just elizabeth and darcy's first dance in pride and prejudice (2005) where they go from dancing in a crowed ball to being totally alone in the room. It totally works there, as these two people fall into each others orbit, but in twlight i find it takes on a chilling note of bella sealing her fate with a kiss, and instantly being cut off, isolated, and full absorbed into the cullens cult like family. he finally has her trapped

[@Crouteceleste]

yes it's so creepy when the camera turns around and she's all alone with that guy (I also think she looks terrified and then forces herself to fake being happy while she's being handed to her owner in the bridal walk scene)

[@muurrarium9460]

If you make comments like this...name the specific film. Pride and Prejudice has been done so many times already!

[@dorotihullam9191]

@@muurrarium9460 I think they meant the 2005 one

[@ludmilamaiolini6811]

Now that you mention it, I’m thinking that intentionally using that effect (of removing everyone else from the room) would be great in a non romantic scene to illustrate an abuser isolating their victim

[@hayleybartek8643]

Awkward for me because at first I thought they'd actually been kissing for so long that everyone else just left them alone and went to the reception.

[@stineandersen56]

I think the scene with Edward hating that he hurt Bella during intercourse, would have been so much better, if he had acknowledged that, while she might not mind being bruised and hurt, he minds. Stephanie could have made a whole point of respecting each other's boundaries, tastes and kinks. Because Edward clearly is not into hurting Bella, while she doesn't care. For Edward, hurting Bella is a hard boundary that he doesn't want to cross. Instead, Stephanie made it all about how Edward once again is trying to control how Bella feels. Also, I get what you guys are saying about Edward needing to support Bella in her decisions when it comes to her needs. But I also think Edward should have a right to say if he isn't comfortable with them having sex. Because, while I think it is completely true that Edward should respect what Bella is into and not try and control that, Edward also has a right to say "hey, I get that you don't mind it being rough, and yeah it felt pretty amazing. I just feel really uncomfortable the day after, when I see all these marks on you, knowing I caused it. I am not comfortable with that. So I would like for us to either wait until you are a vampire, so I know I won't hurt you like that. Or we figure out a way for us to do it, where we both get the enjoyment we want, and I don't hurt you."

[@laispersonal9841]

I agree. crying and begging for sex = trying to force consent

[@laispersonal9841]

it is odd they read it like "oh she's married and still has to beg"

[@stineandersen56]

@@laispersonal9841 I think they read it like that, because they are imagining their own marriages, where they have way better communication, than Bella and Edward ever had. And throughout the saga, Bella has been the one being suppressed. This just isn't really one of those moments. There was a comment further down, where someone explained BDSM and after care, and how Edward was a dick for not giving Bella the aftercare she needed, and that he should basically just give her what she wants. And that commenter COMPLETELY forgot that sex is a two-way street. It isn't only about making Bella comfortable and make her enjoy it. Edward has to like it too, and not regret it the day after. Another thing I think people forget, is that both Bella and Edward were virgins! And it is so great that Bella enjoyed her first time, and Edward even admits, that before he noticed the bruises, he enjoyed it too. But then we also have to remember, that in Stephanie's head, Edward is a boy who wants nothing more than to protect Bella from EVERYTHING, especially himself. He sees himself as a monster that will only hurt Bella. So, when he notices the bruises on Bella before she wakes up, he is horrified. Because seeing them, just confirmed all the things he thought himself to be. He is a monster that hurt the love of his life, even if she doesn't see it that way.

[@IceCreamMeiLo]

@@stineandersen56 thanks!!

[@ceciliai.ogwude2845]

I think these guys are just biased against these movies which is okay. It's not a perfect movie but Edwards motives are clear. Thank you for your post.

[@ambertucker6792]

I think it's safe for Edward to say that me hurting you in sex doesn't work for me. Bella doesn't respect his boundary either.

[@Schoolgirl325]

@@blabla187This! I agreed with their analysis on the abusive and toxic nature of Bella’s relationships with Edward and Jacob right up until they victim blamed Edward for refusing to have sex with Bella out of a completely legitimate concern for her safety on their honeymoon after the friction between their bodies the first time bruised her human body and he almost bit her after getting so lost in the lust of the moment. Just because Edward is a man and Bella is a woman, it doesn’t give her the right to continually harass and proposition him for sex after he has repeatedly expressed his concern for hurting her for as long as she’s still human. By Breaking Dawn, it’s not like Bella hasn’t already pressured Edward to do what he didn’t want to do at first from the beginning by getting him to agree to be with her as a partner and make her immortal forever in the first place. Yes, he asks her to marry him, but, for as much of a toxically controlling, possessive, and manipulative stalker as he is with when they’re together, he still doesn’t make marriage this thing she has to accept from him in exchange for immortality until she demands it if he wants to get married. If Bella had just said no and gone her own way, or had accepted his proposal without the demand of sex and immortality in return, he’d be okay with that. Sure, he wouldn’t be happy if they broke up. He might even still watch from afar, unless Bella told him to stop.,He wouldn’t pressure her to be with him when they weren’t dating, though. For all of his flaws, Bella is actually the more aggressive pursuer of their physical, romantic, and sexual relationship. Sure, he’s a creepy stalker. He’s controlling and overprotective. These traits are very bad, but Bella also often reinforces those negative traits in him by staying with him in their relationship whenever he does, and she generally is the more aggressive one when it comes to wanting immortality and pursuing an established romantic and sexual relationship with him forever.

[@earthangel1814]

I think the problem is he’s like it was the best night of my life, etc etc. and he says he wants to but then wont anyway. And wont even budge. I know its a pg 13 movie but like he doesnt reciprocate in anyway. like she wanted to, he wouldnt until they were married, now theyre married and he still is withholding for her “safety”. Idk. And besides the fact; if edward had gotten everything he ever wanted then, bella would literally DIE A VIRGIN

[@pbower4378]

@@earthangel1814facts. He wanted her to have a human life but still wanted to be with her while she was old. So if he never has sex with her while she’s human while they’re together… is she supposed to die a virgin? Or is he chill with pimping her out to Jacob when she’s horny? Like what was the plan Edward?

[@heathersmith4042]

@@pbower4378 i mean in the book he was going to suggest that she and jacob go down together so she could have a baby if that was what she wanted, so... yeah that was probably the plan lol

[@Elamado97]

​@@pbower4378no sex at all, nothing nada

[@angelalott2383]

The funny thing about Twilight is that all the secondary characters were WAY WAY WAY more interesting than Bella, Edward and Jacob. I so want to read the book about Carlisle, Alice, Jasper, even Roseline, Emmett, heck even the wolves lives looked interesting. Why is it all Bella Bella bella!!!! Carlisle and Alice in particular are such interesting characters!

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Right? We're totally with you on this one.

[@marielabailon3395]

I wish there was at least a mini series of their stories. I agree.

[@helenakausch1102]

I just want a storry from the perspective of Carlisle...

[@cassidydavis4421]

The book Midnight Sun has so many backstories! Just got finished reading it and I loved all of the backstory additions

[@amphitritemists4595]

This is why the Twilight companion guide is my favorite because its a collection of everyone's backstories and gods dang I wish we had Alice, who broke out of a psych ward and had to find her way to Jasper because she saw visions of him in her future, or Rosalie, who killed the men who raped and left her for dead, or Carlisle, who had to learn how to restrain his vampire urges on his own and who made a family for himself, or freaking Esme, who was in an abusive relationship and finally found happiness with Carlisle and the adopted vampire kiddos like what the frick why cant we read more about them 😭😊

[@shroomyk]

Jonathan actually touches on a great point when he says there are moments on warmth, love, and support in an otherwise abusive relationship. Even when you are with an abusive person, there are moments they can treat you well. That's what kind of tricks you into staying, because you think you can nurture those moments and that person to fix them. But the reality is that you can't and really shouldn't try. They have to do the work, and you deserve to be able to leave and let them do it. Just saying, don't be fooled by those moments. 9 times out of 10, it isn't going to be ok.

[@Adirondaque]

This is a perfect exemple, very concise, of ''Why didn't you leave/stand up for yourself''. It's a nice answer that touches on the violence cycle.

[@P.gz46]

Perfect answer.

[@Fallenfromgrace1990]

It is literally a Stockholm Syndrome situation.

[@o0Avalon0o]

Not to mention, if you're stuck in these types of relationships, there's often people in your social circles that dismiss the abusive behavior anyway. To them, addressing it would be too much trouble, so anyone trying to rock the boat is the "real" problem.

[@purplesamurai5205]

@@o0Avalon0o Crap! That's exactly what happened to me a few months back!

[@justanotherredheadattheend955]

It's really uncomfortable and awkward how much happier Bella is to see Jacob, after looking so unhappy and anxious walking down the aisle at her own wedding. Out of context, Edward having him there 'as a gift' combined with her reaction, feels like the husband in a loveless business marriage arranging for his new wife to see the man she actually loves one last time. Super weird y'guys.

[@trinaq]

Indeed, Bella's dance with Jacob at the wedding looked more romantic than her one with Edward, which goes to show just how forced and awkward Edward and Bella's entire relationship is!

[@breezy3392]

Sadly, that would make for a far more interesting story

[@justanotherredheadattheend955]

@@trinaq It totally does. It's this tiny moment where Bella seems like her actual self, relaxed and organically happy. I know her relationship with Jacob is a mess too, but if I was watching this with no background info.... Also Edward saying to Jacob "she shares something with you I can never understand"???

[@blake9033]

@Anonymus X i think it was a billion wicked thoughts that breifly mentioned bella from twilight. That is exactly the trope she represents "i'm not like other girls but i'm average, beautiful, uncomplicated and unaware of my beauty and how everyone wants to talk to me"

[@emmasummers893]

RIGHT. Her face was always so much happier around Jacob. I never see her smile like that around Edward.

[@zaharawilliams1716]

Imprinting has always had sexual and romantic undertones no matter how the wolves try to tiptoe around the topic. In the books and in the movies, every imprinted pair always end up as a couple even if one of them has to grow into it. Him imprinting on Renesmee is basically implying that they WILL be a romantic pairing somewhere down the line of Renesmee LOOKING old enough to be with him, because let's not forget that she was basically 10 in 3 months. And if that's not grooming, I don't know what is. That's like if a family friend that is basically your uncle that you grew up with was just waiting for the chance for you to be old enough to make romantic advances at you. And then Stephanie tried to backtrack because she realized how badly the concept of imprinting would be received by throwing in the little bit of fake lore that imprints can have platonic relationship, which they never do... The nature of imprinting in general is already creepy and can mess up so many things, but then you get into the technicalities of "what if you imprint on a baby or a child?" or "what if your imprint is already happily in another relationship and now that's ruined because of a weird werewolf claim you have on them that you both have no say in?" or "How do you know that you actually like each other and you aren't forcing your feelings out of the obligation of the imprint?" Imprinting is such a flawed system that she tries to cover up the creepy pedo nature of Jacob imprinting on a baby by going, "but no, the baby ages exponentially fast so she will LOOK like an adult and then Jacob can carry out whatever creepy romantic acts he wants without scrutiny from the fandom because she LOOKS 23 when she's really like 5"

[@Xehanort10]

The Twilight fans who defend imprinting by saying he wants to be a friend or brother to her are sick.

[@michaelhammers7828]

The more you have to explain why a relationship isn’t creepy the less that relationship should exist.

[@brittany8002]

That's actually why other werewolf lore that had the concept of imprinting or solemates or mates usually has something where you can't tell until both parties are of age, because it's creepy. There is already sometimes problematic age differences so that at least try to do that. Not here though. It also continues the idea that a child is just an extension of their parents, because the impression is this is why there was tension between them OR that all her feeling for him just came out in the baby. Let's not forget they messed up bit

[@Harmonious028]

@@Xehanort10that’s wild because Alice LITERALLY has a vision where Jacob and Renessmee are together

[@ericaoiticica7522]

Meanwhile I’m here laughing my butt off with the subtitles calling Bella “Fangtastic wife” and Edward “Sparkly”

[@themostdistinguishedsnek6856]

And Jacob “Wolfy”!

[@hannahtheodore]

The craziest thing is, in the book, when Edward asks Jacob to tell Bella to get an abortion, he also suggests Jacob just impregnate her instead. He says something like, "if it's a baby she wants...." Truly the most fucked up moment in the entire series and WOW what a relief they cut it from the film.

[@ad8447]

Why?? That pregnancy would probably kill her.of course he would choose Bella over the fetus.

[@hannahtheodore]

@@ad8447 bruh he offers up her uterus to another man without consulting her first? that’s objectively messed up, regardless of the context lol

[@missquinberly]

I was going to suggest they should've had a polyamorous relationship but Bella was never in love with Jacob lol

[@aubreycarter7624]

That is so freaking messed up!!! Seriously, how on earth is Edward okay with and suggesting that his wife have sex with and get pregnant by another man?!🤮

[@hannahtheodore]

@@aubreycarter7624 ALSO if I recall correctly, when Jacob tells Bella this, she LAUGHS and finds it like, romantic, I think??? Unhinged stuff

[@nicolecurrie2896]

I still maintain that Meyer is a tonal shift away from being a good horror writer- when she describes gore (the birth scene), implies coming horror (the scene in Rome where a group of tourists is led to the slaughter unaware, save one who realizes and is praying, Rose’s backstory) and has implications that should be horrifying (imprinting) she is actually compelling. Instead we get this terrible romance nonsense.

[@vasyabrave2832]

I mean, this entire series can be rewritten as a horror series pretty easily. Just think, he's the ultimate predator. so much so that humans can't help but be attracted to him and he is just toying with an especially delicious looking prey. Another KZbin (Dominic something, it's been a while since I watched him so I can't remember his thing, he does book vs movie reviews) had the theory that Edward lets off an addictive chemical so she can't leave because then she goes through withdraw.

[@kay-jay1581]

I gotta agree with you. Twilight would have been better if the story was invested into vampires and werewolves. Romance should be the side story and Jake should have been a good friend and pack leader. That or just die in Eclipse 😅 he is so annoying even when I was a teen age fan.

[@nicolecurrie2896]

@@vasyabrave2832 Lost in Adaptation by Dominic Noble is the channel .

[@HumbleWooper]

Or a point-of-view shift. I saw it said a while ago somewhere that if these stories had been told from the POV of Bella's dad, Charlie, it's pure parental nightmare fuel. Having to watch helplessly from the sidelines while all that stuff happens to her.

[@vasyabrave2832]

@@nicolecurrie2896 thank you! My brain completely blanked and I prefer people getting credit for their ideas.

[@amandadelecosse1661]

"This'll be really awkward when he's her son in law." Never put that together. This video is SO worth watching. Love it!

[@cobaltChild]

Okay but- on the bright side, what if he'd actually succeeded and Bella hadn't slept with Edward on their honeymoon. Maybe Jacob wouldn't even become her son in law to regret his words! The creepy plot about him imprinting on a baby would not have happened, as Bella's egg would not have the chance to become Renesmee and Jacob's obsession with Bella would have stopped as soon as she got her next period. An awkward moment for the wedding, but I see no downsides otherwise 😂😂

[@koolkel00]

Edward and Jacob have the most chemistry out of anybody in these movies, watching them interact is by far the most interesting, entertaining parts of all of the movies put together! Like when they are talking on the cold mountain, Edward smiles the most genuine smile out of the whole series!!! your a vampire! He's a werewolf! You'll both have weird supernatural lives you can live together!!! JUST KISS ALREADY!!!

[@grimmaulkin]

Team jadward.

[@d-v1199]

They should've been a couple

[@oliverford5367]

A valid criticism is that Bella isn't a strong enough character, she's just declared special by everyone else for no reason. Edward and Jacob are both far more interesting

[@Elamado97]

That's just your own fantasy😅

[@kkrb1212]

Nope it’s Bella and Alice forever lol

[@Ari-Rina]

From the perspective of a once-teenage girl that read the books when they released and like them at that time (urgh, we all make mistakes, right?) I could give a viewpoint on what is so appealing about Imprinting: It's the idea that no matter how unpopular, ugly, boring, etc. you are, there's still someone who is "made for you". Because media, especially the one targeting teenagers, is always having this underlying message that romance and having a romantic relationship is *everything* and someone is only complete and can only be heppy when they have a partner, which is a whole other toxic messaging altogether. At least that's the stuff that I've noticed.

[@DeadNotSleeping789]

Shoutout to all the aromantic folks

[@MonyXChan]

But you have to understand that it just isn’t a strong message to young girls, because it is literally grooming. An older, adult man falling for you, saying he’ll wait for you, all that. That is what imprinting is. It’s so dangerous. I’ve been a teenage girl, it is an awful confusing time. But I promise you; romantic love ISN’T everything. Especially not worth the pain of entering toxic relations. You are worth more than that.

[@toshirodragon]

I wish, when I was a teenaged girl, that that message wasn't so loud. Now, as I approach 60, I wish I hadn't "needed" to find a partner so urgently and had done more things for myself. (That's not to say it's been a bad marriage, but I wish I could have explored as a single longer)

[@andeddoberubetto]

I was about to comment something along these lines. That 'imprinting' just assured you that there will always be a person that's 'there' for you, and 'loves' you. I also fell into the trap of thinking that if I found a romantic partner that viewed me as a soul mate or whatever, that I would finally feel complete/whole -- that I would be secure in life, find my motivation, etc. Not just because of the societal norms of the time, but because I never had a healthy relationship for comparison. I never had a safe space or person that could talk honestly with me about these things, and at the time, I wasn't aware that I felt like this, to that extreme. I just thought I was a "romantic". But it's completely unreasonable and ludicrous to ever depend on just one person to be your 'everything'. Throw in depression, social anxiety, unconventional appearance (i.e. "ugly"), and sexually abused, and there you go.

[@Cora.T]

@@MonyXChan we know that, now that we have grown and matured, many teenagers don't yet have the experience or maturity and on top of that messaging is everywhere. I would like to go a step further than OP and state that the whole message is, as a woman you are worth no more than how men evaluate your outer appearance. And your entire value comes from your relationship to a man. And it is visible in everything, men are revered to by mister irregardless of their status. For women it's miss or mrs, before you even hear "her name" you hear what her relationship to men is

[@aquarianmoon9847]

i know you guys HATE doing these movies, but i seriously want to thank you for doing them. i've wanted to make this comment for a while, because i just really want y'all to know how actually impactful your videos about the twilight series are. i'm 21, and even though i wasn't into twilight as a kid/teen, its prevalence in the culture impacted me deeply. when i was a teenager i "fell in love with" (read: was groomed by) a guy 10 years older than me. because "forbidden love" and relationships like the ones in Twilight were so romanticized, i really thought that was what love was supposed to look like. and like Bella, i got married at 18 and was totally ready to give up absolutely everything to be with this guy. (i'm still repairing my relationships with some of my family, who warned me and tried to stop him.) he turned out to be very abusive on multiple levels, manipulative, and took advantage of my struggles with codependency. in 2020, i saw the videos you made about the first twilight movie. it immediately made me conscious of the similarities in my own marriage, and later that year we separated. now, at the end of 2021, the divorce is being finalized and i'm in therapy, healing from the trauma and abuse. as funny as your loathing for these movies is, i just really can't thank you enough for this. i promise you it really is helping people and changing lives.

[@Cora.T]

I am so happy you are out of that place and getting help ♥️. And you are so right, it's grooming young girls into accepting abusive relationships as normal and romantic and what you should strive for

[@rahbeeuh]

So happy you're on the road to recovery and getting the help you need. Take care 💛

[@operaforlife6551]

Thanks for sharing, sorry to hear about your troubles, good luck with therapy! :)

[@viridianacortes9642]

Good for you! I am so glad you are in a better place now. 🙂

[@emmabunch-benson4795]

Wow!! Good for you!!

[@nightwhispr7195]

The CGI wolves have more facial expression in that small scene than Edward and Bella have in the whole series.

[@rmcneil1340]

Lol

[@thepunkmuppet]

“michael sheen’s here which is always a plus” always true in every situation ever, an absolute legend

[@breezy3392]

You know I'm actually disappointed that Jonathan and Allen glossed over Bella's manipulating and pushing someone into having sex when they clearly weren't comfortable with it.

[@Crouteceleste]

I guess they were too focused on the fact that Ed made yet another one-sided decision "for Bella's sake" (but yeah neither of them are behaving like people in a healthy relationship)

[@breezy3392]

@@Crouteceleste Yeah, the unholy trio are such a toxic mess that it would be difficult for anyone to catch every point in a single video. But actually I can see Edward's point in this one particular instance. Him trying to tell Bella how she's supposed to feel is still a constant trashy thing he does and he needs to pull his head out of his ass on that point. But he wasn't withholding sex as a way to manipulate or control her here. He isn't comfortable with it. He is genuinely stressed and scared about hurting her, and Bella completely disregards that because she's horny. Neither one of them is the least bit understanding towards the partner they claim to love more than life itself. Honestly, I just wish there was a vampire hunter in this movie that just came in and killed all three of them.

[@brumbybailey6599]

@@breezy3392 that plot twist would be so good! 👌🤣

[@imibee5184]

I kinda hate how he made it all about him being too dangerous. When he saw the bruises on her the next morning, instead of making it about him, and brooding, he could've been gentle with her, like after care - holding her and kissing her gently.

[@chrisrudolf9839]

I also think they were a little bit onesided at that point, Edward being concerned for Bella's health isn't entirely a bad thing, even though his patronizing and deciding for her remains problematic (more so because it fits into a long line of similar controlling behavior, I guess we would see it way less negative if this was an isolated incident and he wasn't constantly treating her as if she was a clueless child). I wouldn't say it's quite the same as pushing someone into having sex when they don't want to, because Edward did enjoy the sex (as per his own account) and he wasn't uncomfortable with the sex as such, he was uncomfortable with the consequences for Bella. Also, "manipulating" is a strong word when it is about sex during your honeymoon. I mean, sure, you need to respect your partner's boundries and comfort zone and you can't expect your partner to always be in the mood, but if your partner repeatedly doesn't want sex during the honeymoon, I'd say this is a relationship problem and some gentle mental pushing for the partner to work on this attitude is not uncalled for. Another reason why this is so cringeworthy is how Meyer as a writer purposefully set this conflict up to have no compromising solution, so the issue of Edward refusing sex out of concern for Bella would be a source of tension (and romanticizing this), but we as readers/viewers have a really hard time to buy this, because they don't even try to find a way to have some healthy adult couple time together without Edward pounding her into a bruised pulp and anyone with a lively sexual fantasy likely has some spontaneous ideas how a being with supernatural strength and mild control issues might be able to do this (I mean, there are other options than missionary, he could just lie down and let her ride him).

[@positivepenny5477]

But wait, what about Edward's right to consent? If he's not comfortable being intimate when it bruises his partner, doesn't he have the right to say he's not comfortable? If I'm not comfortable for intimacy for whatever reason and my partner kept begging "please, please" when he knew nothing had changed with my discomfort I'd say gfto, dude.

[@rivercrystal2511]

@@NovusIgnis thank you finally someone addressing the elephant in the room and being blunt about it.

[@argella1300]

Right! Any time any rough play is introduced into a bedroom setting, all parties need to be clear and honest about what they will do, would like to do, and absolutely WILL NOT do. For Edward, his hard limits are physically injuring Bella, and that’s fine. There are many ways for a dominant partner to be overpowering that don’t involve physically hurting someone that leaves a lasting mark.

[@jameseubanks3477]

@@argella1300 I think the issue is more that what Edward goes for it. And after then says. "It's not happening again." Rather than fully explaining and finding a caveat, he ends all sexual contact from there. However, this thread was right to bring up the question of consent. That's some real stuff.

[@liahmartinez179]

i completely agree with you! however, given the bonkers power imbalance in their relationship, i'm not sure if your point really stands (in this case).

[@rivercrystal2511]

@@liahmartinez179 so you're implying that bella doesn't need conscent to fuck edward or any other vampire die to vampire's power level?

[@koolkel00]

I was a teen girl in the midst of the twilight craze and I just remember thinking, "I would like this more if they were ever nice to each other and ever had genuine fun together, and if any of them had a personality other than I'm edgy and dark" and also I still laughed at the more ridiculous moments

[@raven4k998]

I'm the map I'm the map I'm the map... I'm the MAP!!!!

[@chocolatechips1776]

You guys are heroes. Thank you for going through the pain of watching these movies in order to educate the masses! PS your editing is hilarious, loved the Dora the Explorer part 🤣🤣🤣

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Thanks so much! It was painful but worth it (we think). 😆

[@stephaniesuarez4254]

Alan: "Stephanie....What the fuck?" Me, whose name is Stephanie and is watching these while grading my students papers: "OKAY OKAY I'll give him the point!"

[@elisebond]

Hahahaha you're so nice

[@hadley_mcdonald]

I hope my teachers are like you this year!

[@Overseer2579]

😂😂😂

[@heatherwarner865]

This is literally the only time I will stick up for "book" Edward. Bella emotionally and mentally manipulated Edward with the whole sex issue. He did not want it at all and it was coercion on her part. He had always been afraid that he would hurt her and she said the only way she would marry him was if they had sex. Bella even manipulated Edward as far as the pregnancy - granted yes it is her body and life but she was also married and never actually listened to anyone. I almost died with my children due to heart issues and we had to decide and sign papers as to which one of us they would save. The first time we chose our child, the second time my husband said he couldn't do it and would tell them that they were to save me over the child even though I was willing to give up my life. Bella never gives Edward that chance - as she often does she uses her life, her humanity as a bargaining chip with the vampires to get them to do what she wants. It is after this book that I made a huge bonfire with the entire series. My quest into rewriting the characters led to me writing fanfiction, which led to my degrees in History and Creative Writing and I am now editing my first novel - so I can't hate on Twilight too much since I learned all the things NOT to do in writing strong characters. Great job guys, I look forward to the final installment and you regaining the last dregs of your humanity and sanity after having gone through the sewers of insanity known as Twilight.

[@NindeRingeril]

you know what? you're right, she uses her humanity as a bargaining chip. But can you blame her? how else would she make her voice heard? She discovers that she can make Edward do whatever she wants only by saying please with beading eyes in Eclipse, and only do that on purpose 3 times. That's more that I could say I'd do if I were her

[@charmedlife1990]

@@NindeRingeril the hallmarks of a mutually abusive relationship. It has been stated before, but they are both horrible characters

[@AliciaB.]

I totally agree on the fact that the whole 'please let's have sex, I'm crying so you're a monster if you say no' can be read as sexual blackmail, which is absolutely pukeworthy. But if he wants to have sex with her just as much as she does, and dictates when they can or cannot do it based on a 'program' that he set up without consulting her, like some kind of legal guardian, that's also f-ed up. The problem with edward is that he's so damn flat and inexpressive, it's almost impossible to really know what his feelings are. Not to mention how contradictory and incoherent his whole character is. Tbh my takeaway from these analysis videos so far is that both Edward and Bella have an extremely unhealthy view of romance, which causes them to be addicted to each other in a form of attraction that has NOTHING to do with genuine love.

[@hallenelson2839]

What’s your fanfiction account?

[@heatherwarner865]

@@NindeRingeril She does it with Charlie as well using her parents relationship against him when she takes off with Edward.

[@Daniko2]

"Imprinting" is a weird take on the incredibly popular fated-mates trope. It's a variation on the soulmate concept: that there is one perfect person out there for you. Most of the time that trope involves both parties being much older than a week though (usually already adult). And most of the time--in the hands of better writers--it's more like "oh there you are; I've been looking for you", instead of "here's the person you're going to be stuck with". The fated couple actually suits each other extremely well, so the choice issue is easier to finesse. The trope does still contain a certain lack of choice. But that issue itself can be fodder for a decent story. Unfortunately, in addition to Meyer's already shaky grasp of emotional consequences, I think in this case the so-called imprinting was just an authorial get-out-of-jail-free card. Jake was supposed to be a good guy too, so there had to be a reason he was obsessed with a woman who was so clearly in love with someone else. But Meyers didn't bother to question the effects imprinting would actually have on a society.

[@breeh2335]

I don’t know if you meant to do this, but I love the Rhysand quote in there

[@victoriaadachobe4374]

What i like in the fated/mate concept of some lycanthrope stories is that there is the option of rejecting your mate if its not wanted

[@mishkawolfforever5951]

Couldn't have said it better I love the fated series and other shifter books 😊

[@madisonablitt]

I think the reason why jacob got an invite is because bella's dad probably requested that he got an invite so he could stay on the good side of his family

[@XxMCRroxnonstopxX]

Charlie and Jacobs dad Billy are best friends so the invite was for the black family not Jacob in particular.

[@mollz19_ot7nw]

For the record, so this can finally be put to rest: The real reason Jacob got an invite was only because it was Alice that sent it to him. And that was because she thought that's what Bella would've wanted, whether she said so or not. Those are the facts. There, mystery solved. We can all move on.

[@sarahsbakingcreations]

Fair

[@andrewdoiron7922]

Jonathon: "I would make so much money in couple's therapy." Also Jonathon: "No measure of time with you will be long enough."

[@melisandelalavandere8812]

👏 👏 👏😆

[@pastelmusic409]

Yeah. because these are characters, not people. he can decide what is and isn't good. 🙄

[@g.strobl4458]

As a hobby writer, I may have an idea of Stephanie Meyer's reason for writing like that. I believe she thinks in scenes, not in story or message. She had these scenes in her mind that she really liked; The story was devised to stitch these scenes together, with no regard to the message this is going to convey. I honestly think it's as simple as that.

[@mori6434]

I feel like that's actually a valid way to write though, AS LONG AS in the revision process you put the work in make those scenes into something cohesive. I tend to write individual scenes when I start out because I get lots of disjointed ideas for emotional and interesting moments, and in the process of writing them I often find out what overarching thread would best connect them. Then in a later draft I use that to tie them all together based on a central idea that naturally developed in the writing. Not to say I think Meyer put that much work into it, just that the method of building out a story by connecting isolated scenes isn't necessarily bad.

[@auntisthenes2754]

In my memory, this book is made by points of views and the whole episode must be from Bella's. Meyer doesn't talk about sex; there is an aftermath but sorry stretching her book into two movies and thinking she's got messages (beyond abortion is bad) : Pffff...

[@a.madison9625]

lol, she's Mormon. She not only knew what she was doing, she had an agenda. No sex before marriage, marry young and then instantly begin having children. She has said that after she had Edward leave in New Moon that he "stopped talking to her." Her characters talked to her, and she wrote down what they said. But she must have known New Moon was a contrived plot and it was out of character for Edward to leave, so she admitted she had problems writing dialog for him after that. She fell in love with Jacob, which is why she made the wolf pack so prominent and gave the last half of the final book to Jacob. She's not normal.

[@veronikuccia911]

I think you are right!!

[@diabloakland]

@@a.madison9625 wow this true. She is not normal at all.

[@Whatlander]

THEORY: Alice is so cheerful because she's basically all of us, watching everything spiral into sheer absurdity and laughing her ass off. [EDIT]: "You have a connection I'll never understand" - is this a reference to iMpRiNtInG, or Edward not understanding the concept of friendship?

[@raven4k998]

he just beat the crap out of his wife..... and she liked it🤣

[@eyesofthecervino3366]

23:26 "The whole idea that you have no choice over who you fall for, or who you connect with . . . is such a dangerous idea." Thank you. Really, thank you. As a person who's both had un-reciprocated feelings for people, and who's had some rough experiences trying to turn down people who really didn't know how to take "no" for an answer, this articulates something I've been mulling over for a while. On the one hand, I get it -- I really do. People feel what they feel, the heart wants what it wants, and I think it's really cruel when some people intentionally hurt others for feeling that way towards them. On the other hand, though, sometimes -- maybe oftentimes -- the other person just won't be interested, and maybe the best we can do is try to understand what it is we're drawn to (and maybe evaluate whether that's actually a good thing), and then pick ourselves up and keep looking. It's not fair for someone to pin all of their wants and needs on someone else, and then obsess over trying to force them into a role based on that.

[@perpetuallylate8091]

Let's not forget the MOST toxic aspects of the story: Imprinting is love against your will that also happens with children. Jacob and Quil both imprint on literal babies and everyone is like "yeah, makes sense 🤷" And then when Edward asks Jacob to talk to Bella, he literally tells Jacob that she could have "puppies" instead, meaning he would be willing to share her with Jacob and let her have his babies if Jacob can convince her to have an abortion and stay alive. Icky Icky Icky 🤢

[@edstella]

Also, I know that when this came out, the Quillayute and indigenous people/first nation group/Indians (not what I would use, but I do know some people who are part of the group use it to self-identify) were able to make some profit, but it was *only* due to their initiative to take their native crafts like woven bracelets with names and like "Bella" and "Jacob" and other character names. Many did not relish this, but it was an easy way to make extra income when many First Nation people are at a disadvantage as a minority group. It's just the fact that Stephanie Meyer took a real people with real history and culture that have persisted through the ages, maintained their culture through colonialism's affects into the present day and just boiled it down to: "Shapeshifting and imprinting on helpless babies." Not to mention how they only speak in the film, as said, for exposition and drama. Who would be happy to have their people and culture painted as mystical enablers of child abuse?

[@tiffprendergast]

Yup

[@perpetuallylate8091]

@@edstella Right? Like what could be worse that a white woman making a mockery of Indigenous culture and then profiting off it... Like a lot 🙄 And we haven't even touched on the unhealthy parenting dynamics or the pushing of purity culture on young women. Like I had a Twilight phase in middle school like anyone else but when I went back and read it as an adult I was just like Steph wtf 🤦🏼

[@lilscenechick1995]

It also really bothered me even when I read the books at 15/16, that Bella pretty much wanted to die in childbirth. Like??? It's okay to terminate a pregnancy, but it's even more understandable (necessary) when that pregnancy threatens the life of the mother.

[@spookyspice596]

It’s basically grooming: targeting a minor and love-bombing them until they’re old enough for you to be with them. No one can convince me that what Jacob is doing to Bella’s daughter *isn’t* grooming.

[@FairbrookWingates]

"I love psychoanalyzing people I don't know." "Yeah, but you can't have anything revoked for doing that." I laughed so hard at this, thank you. Probably because I hold a health care related license as well, so I feel you, Jonathan. As for the whole human + vampire sex thing, I'd just go with it's a fantasy trope and leave it at that.

[@jessicawerling9495]

Jonathan asked about "what's the point when it comes to imprinting". There's also the reoccurring theme in the books where Edward says hes waited for Bella a long time. I believe Stephanie Meyer was going for the idea that you belong to each other deep down to your biological core and you won't ever leave them... because it's physically impossible. I don't know how others see it but that to me speaks of abandonment issues.

[@soulstealer5625]

As Micheal put it from the good place "Soulmates aren't found, they're made."

[@hollyschmidt9316]

The cgi and practical makeup on Bella when she’s pregnant is what got me into SFX in non-horror movies

[@jasong9492]

Jonathan is having THE GREATEST TIME tearing this apart while Alan is just like "oh god, what have I done to my friend" this whole video. You guys's dynamic is beautiful.

[@kriscynical]

As legendary as this video's thumbnail is, _nothing_ will ever top Jonathan's wretching face on the Eclipse part 1 thumbnail. 😆

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

In the hands of a talented writer, the whole imprinting thing is another element of this series that I think would make for a great psychological/existential horror story.

[@munchyy_]

so true

[@momimhome7540]

I have a crack crossover idea where Leah (the girl wolf) imprints on one of the Winchester brothers from Supernatural.

[@SLAMSwan]

When I was younger, I used to love the book series. I thought it was so romantic. Now that I'm older, I'm enjoying y'all roasting this series. Y'all are so on point!

[@catherineginn3232]

There is actually a scholarly article which analyzes Stephanie Meyer’s use of metaphor in her writing of Edward and Bella’s sexual relationship within the socio-political context of 2008. It’s by Lydia Kokkola and is titled “Virtuous Vampires and Voluptuous Vamps: Romance Conventions Reconsidered in Stephanie Meyer’s “Twilight” Series,” in case anyone was interested. It was a real eye-opener for me and only adds to the elements of dangerous messaging seen earlier in the series. I used this article as a source in a research paper comparing Mr. Darcy and Edward Cullen which was inspired by Johnathan’s character analysis, and now it’s in the process of being published. So . . . THANK YOU GUYS FOR THAT!!!!!

[@SistersTape]

That sounds super interesting! And congratulations!

[@Kathling1997]

Really happy for you! Let's gooooo

[@skyeeld6583]

Sounds interesting! And great for you! Congrats!

[@Kasiarzynka]

My only thoughts after reading this comment. That is awesome! I wonder, what category would such research/analysis fall under? Something literature related?

[@priyahkumarijeevanram6679]

Thank you for sharing! I am interested in reading it.

[@livgaines6441]

i remember reading these books as a teenager and thinking, "gee, i really hope i find an Edward in the future," and re-reading them as an adult, i can't imagine i would allow my teenage daughter to ever read them.

[@ady6837]

Welcome adulthood.. now imagine actual mothers who take this craziness to the next level with their daughters! N they go to fan events n stuff like besties

[@kiararivera4589]

My daughter will read these books to learn what NOT to look for in men😅😅 There will be lots of conversations about it lol

[@luisaah5707]

I agree 100%. Awful books😵

[@KingCasual1986]

I’m a guy. I read the books on a whim while I was in my school’s library (I had nothing else that I wanted to read at the time). They are definitely books. That’s all I can really say. I saw the movies. Is it possible to be sober and high at the same time because I must have been high to think those movies were good.

[@rogueally7993]

I like reading the fanfiction as an adult, at least the ones that A) give Edward a better personality, B) give Bella a personality, and C) improve the plot by removing the triangle because it’s stupid.

[@crissyjayfae]

“This is gonna be really awkward when he’s her son in law” 😂😂😂 The family reunion! You guys are hilarious

[@In_TheMoonlight]

"I"m a little worried, can vampires go into shock?" has gotta be one of the best lines in this series

[@danielrebora1350]

The reason "imprinting" is popular in romance novels is that you, as a reader, can pretend that a desireable man would just find you irresistible and pursue you relentlessly without you having to be particularly pretty, funny, smart or having to work for it. I thought it was really interesting when the book decided to both have it as an in-universe higher power while also giving it a dark side (showing how ridiculous the trope is in the first place), but it was handled really poorly. I guess the "power of love" excuses grooming.

[@CRSB00]

I think you mistake "love at first sight" with Meyer's "imprinting" and I said that way because imprinting is a real thing and, like pokemon evolution, it's nothing like the real thing, but I digress. Meyer's "imprinting" is "love at first sight" taken to its most horrifying extreme, something she fails to understand, ironically enough, to her there is nothing more romantic than having literally no control of your action while "in love", justifying things like stalking and grooming. I have no issue with the portrayal of awful things in fiction but when the author clearly has no idea that the thing they're presenting is abhorrent, one cannot help but wonder

[@Libellulaire]

I think it's authors taking the soulmate idea too far. The idea of soulmate is that we were originally two people in one who got split in two souls, in two different bodies, and we are endlessly looking for that second part of us to be reunited with them. Only then will we feel completely "full" and be truly happy. Her idea of imprinting is kind of that: there is someone out there that is exactly made for you. When you meet them, you'll "imprint" because you'll understand that it is the other lost soul you got separated from, the one you were meant to be with all along. You might have loved before, but it was something completely different. It's not only that they have no control over it: they don't need to have control over it, they don't want it. It is just how it is. It is finding the light in the darkness. The soulmate idea - especially when pushed to the extreme like this - is one of the things that mess with people's relationships. Some people stay with people that aren't right for them (or worse: abusive and manipulative) because they want to believe in that love, that they were "meant to be together," while some other people are never satisfied with their relationships because they want to find that special someone...

[@acelovesdiyschristopher7023]

I thought it was a shitty written soulmate bond. Plausible tbh

[@KireiC]

Suddenly thinking of a lyric from Garfunkel & Oates' "29, 31" - "He'll just appear, and we'll just know, and he'll love me forever without any work; who needs to try when it's meant to be?" Of course it's appealing to have the perfect person and relationship. It's just that it's a fantasy, and not applicable to reality - you can have a great, lifelong relationship and it's never going to be as perfect as the happily-ever-after in a fairy tale, and that's totally okay!

[@fresikey5054]

Es aberrante la manera en la que ella lo interpreto en sus libros. Y después agarra ejemplos de adolecentes con niños. Dios mio! Y el problema no queda ahi Renesmee no crecerá se quedara joven y Jacob no... O sea que clase de ejemplo de "imprimacion" es esa!! Creo que si la imprimacion la hubieran puesto que tu media naranja fuera DE tu EDAD. Sería menos doloroso de ver y de asimilar.

[@itsDessree]

I've been scrolling the comments and I don't see anyone mentioning this, but can I just say that whoever edited the captions is a hero LMAOOO. Bella is fantastic wife, Jacob is wolfy, Edward is Sparky. I love it! LOL

[@cassidyfregia1662]

lol she’s actually FANGtastic wife which makes it 10000x more funny

[@shobe8093]

Edward is Sparkle. Love how theyre having fun with it

[@Late_To_The_Trend]

Thank you for this it made me laugh harder

[@Kingatje]

This :)

[@istheresauce767]

You guys should go read the previous videos. Bella is garbage person. Edward, not sparkling in a glade, is sparkle-less, Charlie is mustache dad, Jessica is criminal underuse of Anna Kendrick. Gold, pure gold.

[@abbasturd]

The first Twilight movie came out when I was in elementary school. All I remember is that my friend and I were gushing like crazy about how amazing the movie was. The two of us were asking each other if we were "Team Edward" or "Team Jacob". Now I look back at that moment and I can't believe the way I acted. The series was...no.

[@gudinesangelicau]

same here, got reeducated by this channel that ✨BOUNDARIES MATTER-✨ and side note: Mom absolutely ADORES the wedding song of this movie franchise 🙂

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Wow dang this movie isn’t appropriate for elementary school.

[@abbasturd]

@@gudinesangelicau I like, “Bella where the hell have you been located?”

[@coolm3th]

I will always, ALWAYS hate the packing scene in the movie when they're leaving their honeymoon because Edward says nothing to her and acts so coldly but in the book he is so kind and gentle and gets her/packs her snacks the whole time packing. It's really unfortunate.

[@arefehvalizadeh766]

I used to be in a relationship with a person who was even more abusive than Edward and these episodes have shed a new light on that relationship and have made me open my eyes even more. Thank you so much I really needed these

[@imibee5184]

Definitely. It has helped me so much too. I would also recommend Dominic Noble's videos where he discusses the abuse it Twilight and 50 shades of poop. That too really helped.

[@ebufi7957]

She is terrified and she thinks that it is love.

[@imibee5184]

@@ebufi7957 she never looks happy when she's with Edward.

[@lenacalussi7202]

Hope your doing better now :)

[@jenniferuller9852]

Me too! It also made me cry uncontrollable because I am now facing my past

[@michellegoldmelling]

“Don’t look at those kids Jake” 😂😂😂 I died.

[@nbucwa6621]

little does he know that those kids are a teen boy and his toddler wife.

[@rainbowfizz104]

this is my second rewatch of your twilight playlist, and i even suffered through watching the movies again for context, and i am just now realizing that when edward tells jacob that he has a "connection with [bella] that [edward] will never understand," this is edward casually admitting that he is not friends with his wife.

[@RadioByeBye]

I just had a 10 lb "human" baby and I looked a lot like Bella here 🤣 my stomach will never be the same. The day after my son was born I was so relieved to not feel like I was starving to death when I woke up.

[@rozmarinideas5340]

Hope you and baby feeling well, 6 months later.

[@goodmorning2386]

Hope you and your baby are well!

[@safy907]

I had a friend telling me how wonderful her new boyfriend was, that we was always calling her, showing up at her work with small presents, that sometimes in the morning when she was leaving to go to work he had already been by her house and left a rose in the car's windshield. Also it was amazing how she kept bumping into him everywhere, even when they hadn't arranged anything. As she was bragging about how amazingly romantic he was, my brain kept hearing a loud siren "Stalker! Run! Stalker! Run!". Soon she changed her tune and then he was just being opressive. Fortunately she was strong enough to break up with him and stick with it.

[@melindoranightsilver9298]

Good for her that she finally saw that she was in a bad situation.

[@nekomitaina]

The same situation happened with my colleague. The guy was constantly visiting her in the office (that's how I know about it) bringing her homemade food and roses. And then, after she took a huge loan to upgrade the apartment where they lived together (which was actually his apartment), he kicked her out with her little son from previous marriage. His reason was that she killed their mutual pet dog on purpose and he didn't want to be with a pet killer. After that he demanded back his presents he gave her and said that if something is not returned he will nail the head of her own dog (which she left behind when she was kicked out of his apartment) to her parents' apartment door. For some reason, she didn't call the police onto him, so he was left with a nicely refurbished apartment and she was left with a huge loan she will pay for a few years to come.

[@themediator8709]

I was surprised that you have not mentioned the fact that Bella actually run away to Rose for help (the scene with the phonecall in the car, when Bella and Edward were coming back from their honeymoon), becasue Bella knew that Edward would force her into abortion once he realised he could not convince her. And Rose had to physically protect her and her unborn baby from her husband, only for Bella to run back to Edward convinced he is her Prince Charming. Still, Alan's face and his "Stephanie, what the f" just made my day. #AlansFace XDDD

[@SistersTape]

Oh wow, I had totally repressed that memory o.o That's horrible

[@kay-jay1581]

I was waiting for Alan to point that out. He read the books and I was hoping to get another wtf moment lmao.

[@oliolive4355]

It is literally impossible to catch every toxic element of their relationship

[@themediator8709]

@@oliolive4355 I know, especially that this element was much harder to catch in movies than in books. Still it is something that stood out for me much more than some other things that were mentioned. Also, Edward at one point in the movie says that if the baby kills Bella, he won't be able to love it or EVEN TOLERATE IT. So what, if Bella does not survive the birth, he will kill their child too? Bella just returning to Edward after that, saying oh how much she understands him and letting him anywhere near her child just blows my mind.

[@Whatlander]

The only reason I ever read the series is that a coworker at the time who was a Twihard fan, lent me the first book after she found out I'd never read them. She then proceeded to ask me what I thought every time I tried to return it, refusing to take it back until I read the dang thing. (Then I got all completionist and had to follow through.) So there I was in my twenties, being bullied into reading Twilight by a teenager, and she revealed that she had also decided to get engaged to her boyfriend at eighteen. I really hope they're both doing well.

[@anonym6013]

There's just this tension, this intense staring, between Jacob and Edward that's just like in Destiel, and I freaking love it.

[@angel_vii]

I got one thing from the Twilight story- the semi graphic depiction of Bella's pregnancy. Pregnancy is nearly always (outside supernatural horror films) depicted as beautiful and magical and miraculous in film, but rarely is the flip side ever depicted, even though it affects thousands of women every year. During my pregnancy (with my now 4 year old, happy, healthy, son) I suffered with a complication called hyperemesis gravidarum. I lost 25 to 30 pounds from vomiting in the first month. I ruptured my esophagus and vomited blood most of the time. I nearly died from dehydration from an inability to swallow and keep down water. I swallowed my own vomit after taking my prenatal vitamins. I have permanent damage to my body. Everyone in my life (aside from my husband who believed it needed to be my decision and he would support it whatever that was) told me to have an abortion. Doctors, friends, family. It was incredibly painful and isolating during an already dangerous and miserable situation. I spent a lot of time hospitalized, on a million anti nausea drugs, frequent IV fluids and nutrients, and bed rest the whole time. 10 months and a couple of weeks later, we both made it. But it was literally a life and death battle the entire time. Watching Bella wither away from the strain of carrying this baby she desperately loves and wants while literally almost everyone in her life tries to talk her out of it hits me really hard. Its the only thing I find really moving in this series. What she looks like is what it can look like to have a serious complication in your pregnancy. I'm almost unrecognizable in photos from that time due to so much weight loss. I know it looks over the top and cheesy in film. But that really can happen to women. What's even more insidious is that It takes what whoulda, shoulda, coulda, been one of the most exciting times in our lives and makes it a traumatic nightmare. Im so blessed by my son now. He is a miracle. He's the most wonderful person I've ever met. But its hard to look back at that time even years later.

[@Missjunebugfreak]

Thank you for sharing this experience, and I'm truly sorry for everything you've been through.

[@daniellemusella1594]

@AngelVII I'm glad to hear that you and your son are both happy and healthy now. I only learned about that condition, when the news media talked about Duchess Kate's three pregnancies. By sharing your own experience, it really paints an image of what she must've gone through. (12/5/2021)

[@angel_vii]

I'm glad that her experience was able to shine a light on the condition. She had a heck of a fight, even with a dedicated team of care givers. I am really fortunate to have had such a loving and supportive partner. It makes me really sad for the women who don't have support during pregnancy in general and even more so with complications.

[@daniellemusella1594]

@@angel_vii I don't have kids yet, but I do often worry about what influence my other health issues [asthma , mild aortic displasia, and past chronic anemia] will have on my future pregnancy[ies]. (12/5/2021)

[@EtamirTheDemiDeer]

Thank you for sharing

[@luisasena6542]

one of the things i hate the most about imprinting is how sam and leah were dating when sam imprinted on emily and they broke up, so obviously leah was upset about it but literally the whole pack kept complaining about her being sad/angry that she had to see her ex boyfriend and alpha living with his imprint as if they were never together while she still loved him

[@amandacarbajal8590]

Yes and Emily was her cousin and she's expected to just be okay with it. I think in the book when he first tells bella she was on Leah's side saying that they hurt her and Jacob is all "they can't help it. Its not their fault" completely wrong. They also have a part in the book from Jacobs perspective saying he always has to hear her thoughts about how heartbroken she is like it's something that annoys him and presumably the other pack members as well.

[@tetsudikawakami3071]

Can a Wolf guy/girl imprint on their Romantic Partner?

[@auntisthenes2754]

@@tetsudikawakami3071 Possible. Not probable. Few imprints and we get it only from men's perspectives. We don't know how it works for females

[@auntisthenes2754]

Meyer brought mystical elements like imprinting and partial telepathy into a very usual couple story. When we separate, we lose some friends. And you can't be obsssed about tthe past without making things worse. As soon as Leah leaves the pack, she feels better

[@misspriss2482]

@@amandacarbajal8590 I think their issue is how Leah handled it. Break-ups hurt, but there's being heartbroken and there's being a bitch about it. In her case, she literally knew that they couldn't help it and she was awful on purpose. What was the point? What did she hope to gain? I've been where she was and it sucked, but I didn't act like her. Just saying.

[@karmissaariadne3167]

12:27 with the MLG horns & effects is perfection

[@Peachy019]

@ 21:47 Bella doesn’t seem to understand consent either. You can’t beg someone for sex if the other person isn’t fully invested. Bella doesn’t doesn’t want “no” for an answer either. If the roles were reversed this would be super creepy.

[@Xehanort10]

10:38 The scary thing is a lot of abuse victims are manipulated into believing that once they're married the abuser will calm down and the abuse will stop. But usually it gets worse and the victim gets killed.

[@Bleuryder]

In regards to "what Stephanie Meyer is trying to say with their sex scene", I think that what she's trying to say is that ALL sex after marriage is OK. Including sex that leaves you battered and bruised. Think about it. This is Bella's first sexual encounter, it leaves her bruised and sore to a point where her partner is scared of doing it again, but she knows no better and is literally begging him for more. It feels like the message here is "regardless of how your partner feels, after marriage sex is great and all that sex will leave you battered, bruised and pregnant. It's okay though, it's so amazing you'll want your uncomfortable partner to do it again." It also feels like she's trying to communicate that ALL sex is bad. Before marriage? It can kill you. After marriage? It can also kill you. You must become what your husband's ideal partner is and change yourself completely (in this case a vampire) for him in order for it to not kill you. It also ignores both their needs. Clearly Edward has very valid hangups. Bella has needs as well, but communication is never a thing here, and for caring so much about her, Edward never addresses her needs, sexual or otherwise. It's always on his terms. I mean, there's ways to sexually please a person without missionary sex. In short, it sends really skewed messages about sex. No communication between partners, messed up consequences and more. I think the message here was simply: Sex= Just Don't.

[@SevCaswell]

Stephanie Meyer is a mormon, that is all you really need to know when it comes to what she thinks of sex and how a husband should have absolute control over his wife.

[@user-sx6eu4rg2x]

I didn't get that at all...but personally I didn't see any messaging there - he's a vampire, she's human, and vampires are much stronger so it makes sense in this lore that she would get bruised during sex. To me based on what they both are it made sense.

[@Libellulaire]

@@user-sx6eu4rg2x I don't think she really wrote thinking about "messages," yeah. She wrote whatever she felt like writing, she was progressing her story like she thought she should, to her the sex scene and the issues regarding scenes were just a natural progression of what had been said and done before.

[@g.strobl4458]

This is so messed up you are probably right.

[@dellah7507]

@servin tiger it has nothing to do with her being a Mormon. I think the two men sitting there in this youtube video are Mormons too…. Soooo 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@Olivia-ek9ib]

Honestly I think Bella sent Jacob the wedding invite. The first time I watched the movies I focused on how bad Jacob and Edward were, and while they definitely are awful the second time I watched them I realized Bella is no saint either. Even though she clearly liked Edward she never wanted to push Jacob away because that way she would always have someone to fall back on when Edward had a tantrum and left her. She's incredibly self-centered, doesn't take into account that other people are individuals with thoughts and emotions, has no problem manipulating and using people (like Charlie), she definitely seems to be the type to think Jacob would see it as an act of goodwill to be invited to her wedding rather than it being a slap in the face.

[@caidalee1994]

The thing is, Edward simply used Bella as his instrument for self-flagellation (until she became a vampire and he finally started listening to her wants and needs). He hated himself, and wanted to continue to find chances to beat himself up. It didn’t matter if Bella shouted how she felt in his ear. He didn’t want to hear her, just use her as a prop in his one-man tragedy. He probably wanted to keep Bella human so badly so he could use it to throw himself dramatically onto chaises, wishing death upon himself after losing his one true love. Lord Byron had nothing on this “woe is me” eternal teenager. Eteenal? Eternager?

[@bowenarrows7819]

I agree with everything you've said about the movies so far, but I do disagree with your point about Edward and Bella's honeymoon. If you hurt your wife and gave her bruises all over her body, wouldn't you be reluctant to do the same activity that caused it? His whole shtick is to protect her from things, and he hurt her. She said she was OK with it, but he's not. That's his line of consent, and she coerced him. It's no different than if the roles were reversed, and a guy was emotionally manipulating a woman into having sex when she didn't want to. We're so programmed to believe that sexual assault doesn't happen to men, that we miss it a lot.

[@auntisthenes2754]

More insight from you. Anyone can trash the movie without being therapist. But she's after him. That changes things a bit.

[@hannahw90hw]

Absolutely. If this was a bdsm relationship (which is the inspiration for 50 shades) her forcing him into being a masochist or sadist with her would be wrong. You can't make someone do something they're not comfortable with, male or female.

[@Tam00393]

That's true, if it had been Ed boy who cried and begged Bella for sex again we'd all say it was pathetic at best and emotionally abusive at worst.

[@AliciaB.]

True. You can't respect women's right to consent in true intellectual honesty if you don't believe in the same right for men. Double standards...

[@franziskasummers2765]

Jup. I also think so.

[@JegErMaria]

Watching Jonathan trying to find a meaning behind the story and failing over and over again made me want to hug and comfort him.... :) it'll be fine, Jono, the fresh air is near!

[@monio.9444]

He'll need therapy after this is over =))

[@JegErMaria]

@@monio.9444 Let's just hope he won't get PTSD

[@stareyedwitch]

To quote Dominc Noble: It's not that deep bro.

[@monio.9444]

@@JegErMaria Or complex PTSD cause this is almost equivalent to what Katniss Everdeen has been through 🤣🤣🤣 And at least she had the option of fighting it or running through the woods!

[@sarahsbakingcreations]

I think the premise behind imprinting was SUPPOSED to be "you meet that person and you just know it's the right one." Then it just went in a weird direction.

[@danchik4097]

The fact that Bella had to ask Rosaly to protect her from the rest of the family to keep the baby is just precious. AND Edward started to love his own child only when he felt that the kid loved Bella. Great. Such a great start!

[@Fischohnerad17]

My thoughts on the post sex argument On Edward: he's diving head first into self loathing over a few bruises, and this behavior doesn't stop once bella says "hey I understand, accidents happen, we knew I could get hurt from this anyways, I'm not mad about it". He's also talking over her like you mentioned, not believing Bella enjoyed it when she said she did. On Bella: her husband just said "hey I don't feel comfy having sex with you while you're a human, we tried it and it feels too dangerous/I have to have so much self control to not hurt you it kinda makes it hard to enjoy" and she doesn't stop begging and pestering him for sex until she realizes she's pregnant. No means no ma'am, regardless of the person's reason why. On both of them: marriage involves compromise. Neither of these idiots even try suggesting some middle ground between missionary and abstinence that could work. Now, that being said, they don't have to do any of the possible middle ground options if they don't want to, but they're both dead set on their current positions and refuse to budge at all. Many people have suggested just having bella top could fix some of the issues and avoid some possible injuries, or if sex is just off the table, then maybe handjobs or adding toys or just masturbating next to each other or anything at all. There's a hundred and one things that these two could try, but neither ever even thinks of this stuff. Doesn't bode well for the rest of the marriage, but then again they were kinda already like this from the beginning.

[@86upsmaya]

Apparently thats why E.L.James wrote 50 Shades, to show that there are many ways 🤷

[@szarwi]

@@86upsmaya lmao

[@uMaud]

Not to defend their incompetence in finding healthy ways to live their marriage, but in their position, I would have never considered the "alternative options" either.

[@themediator8709]

I completely agree. Bella's approach was already visible in the Eclipse, when she tried to convince Edward to have sex with her. He told her no and clearly explained his reasons. He said it was dangerous for her (and it was), and that he was not comfortable with this because he did not want to put her at risk, and that sex before marriage was against his uppringing/culture/religion. Bella's response was ridiculing his beliefs (doesn't matter that he values marriage, more important that for her it's just a piece of paper; doesn't matter he was brought up that way, for her it's ancient thinking), trying to make him feel guilty (all her saddness and devastation when he refused, as well as her persistent asking), and then she tried a trade and playing on his emotions and desires (her "I'll marry you if you have sex with me"). I know there is a lot to be said about Edward and his controlling and abusive behaviours (and Alan and Jonathan does a great job), but Bella's behaviour is not much better.

[@Tam00393]

Y'all keep forgetting this was written by a middle aged Mormon chick

[@whatthehell4917]

This makes me so happy. My pregnant self is crying out of laughter after midnight and even my pain makes me laugh now. Cause I love how FINALLY I see a real honest review, professionally analyzed, not just "Twilight sucks" but "Twilight sucks because of these various reasons.". This is gold.

[@thenetherbaddie9760]

i know right! this channel is great. also, good luck with your pregnancy! may your baby grow up to become a fellow cinema therapy subscriber haha :)

[@Vampgurl202]

I also like Dominic Noble's videos on Twilight, if you wanted fo check them out

[@heroofthewinds7765]

KrimsonRogue also did several excellent analysis on Twilight

[@tbow7785]

This is how you choose to spend your time! If you already felt it “sucked” then why do you need convincing? If you don’t like this type of genre fine and honestly I wasn’t a fan of the films, I did enjoy the 📚 however. I didn’t need convincing or anyone to validate it either. Simply pick another genre. I read to my children while I was pregnant all the time. Many different genres and poetry to. Robert Frost was a favorite! Edgar Allen Poe, Charlotte Bronte’, Charles Dickens, and even Shakespeare!

[@gianna526]

Since it's been 8 months, I hope your birth went well!

[@GiuC39]

Thank God I never had the stomach to watch more than 15 minutes of Twilight.. But this therapy analysis is pure gold!

[@FearHimself666]

It’s fuckin wild that David Slade normally turns in really good and sometimes fantastic work like 30 Days of Night and the Hannibal pilot respectively…but he also did these…

[@Siures]

My problem with the "imprint" thing is: It makes you blind to a healthy relationship. It makes you think you have to be crazy about each other if you want to be in a relationship. But most healthy relationships I know are at first about insecurity, about exploring, about getting know each other and growing together. Most relationships that start with obsession end up... bad. Or transform into a more healthy, levelled way of loving each other.

[@AliciaB.]

very wise point

[@lvmln7843]

This is a wise comment but I just want to say that I first read "growling together" and I was like "oh yeah, growling, very fitting for Jacob" hahaha

[@Lynsey17]

I was always uncomfortable with it but I heard someone on KZbin describe it as grooming which perfectly describes my "I can't fully put into words why I feel so icky about this" feeling. The whole "being whatever you need until you realize you love me" thing is 100% grooming behaviour. Wish I could remember who said it.

[@lothari3510]

I think everyone who has watched this entire series of videos is going to be so happy for both Jonathan and Alan when it is finally over. Really: massive round of applause for sticking with it.

[@katreeves64]

@cinematherapy As a one-time teenager who read this series I think I can answer your question at 25:18. These novels used to be popular with awkward teenage girls plagued by self-doubt and filled with pathological self-criticism. They are convinced they are unlovable and at the same time fear being abandoned. This is why they have given up on trying to grow a sophisticated intelligent personality, and instead prefer Stephenie Meyer's dream world where men like you just the way you imagine you are: warty, awkward and vacuous. Because this is a series intended for girls with extreme insecurities, Stephanie Meyer has even invented a magic word, 'imprinting', to alleviate these: not only does a guy love you the way you are but also ain't ever gonna leave you because he is forced in his mind to stay. This is the recipe which gets inexperienced self-conscious teenage girls hooked to this highly poisonous material. Luckily, most of them outgrow their insecurities and in time manage to shake off the false notions this book instills. I'm one of those who succeeded.

[@NeoSelah]

Okay but the score during the telepathic dialogue between the wolves is so brilliant

[@amandabehnke5825]

I adore that Bella's character is now labeled "Fangtastic Wife" in the close captions.

[@g.strobl4458]

Yeah, the subtitles are always such a hoot!

[@greenLimeila]

Seriously I always use CC when it's available and I've been loving it on these videos for the bad puns

[@kittenmatchvids6440]

The captions were out of pace for me, not sure if anyone else had the same issue

[@JohnnyElRed]

@@kittenmatchvids6440 Yeah. Me too. Maybe reloading the page will fix it. Edit: No. No, it did not.

[@2bdaqueen268]

@@kittenmatchvids6440 same here

[@Manka__Kasha]

"Michael Sheen is here which is always a plus" /"If you can have Michael Sheen, definetely have Michael Sheen" YES. Just yes.

[@kay-jay1581]

We didn’t get enough of Michael Sheen as Alec. A total travesty 😂Thank you Good Omens and can pair for season 2

[@kristinewalberg2938]

As far as I'm concerned, the entire series exists just so we can experience Michael Sheen's bonkers scream/laugh in BD Pt. 2. Nothing will convince me otherwise.

[@SirThinks2Much]

@@kristinewalberg2938 "400% Michael Sheen"

[@Manka__Kasha]

@@kristinewalberg2938 i absolutely agree. Wouldn't take it any other way

[@daniellemusella1594]

@@kay-jay1581 The man has incredible acting range. He's played a vampire warlord, the prime minister of Great Britain, a complete and utter psychopath [TV - "Prodigal Son"], that character you mentioned, and the werewolf version of Moses. I don't know if there's any role he can't play. (12/5/2021)

[@muchanadziko6378]

No. Edward. You need to choose. It's either "I didn't enjoy myself" or "it was the best night of my existence". It can't be both.

[@cswanswan768]

So happy to have found you guys. Laughing and learning is my favorite combination. You two are the only reason I am even remotely interested in anything Twilight.

[@laurelin4401]

Your analysis of the relationships in these movies has really helped me process emotions and experiences from an abusive relationship that I was in, nearly ten years ago now. At the time, I thought abuse could only be physical, it wasn’t until after the relationship ended that I heard the terms emotional abuse and gaslighting and realized that was what I’d been going through. I think it’s so important to have conversations with teens about red flags in relationships(controlling does not mean he just cares about you a lot!), especially when movies targeted at teens portray disturbing behaviors as romantic.

[@CristalianaIvor]

yeah :/ I have been in so many emotionally abusive relationships and its just as bad as a physically abusive one... But so overlooked and its hard to make people understand if they have never undergone something like this?

[@JenocidalTendencies]

In the books, if I’m remembering where this scene actually takes place correctly, I believe in the same scene where Jacob and Edward talk about convincing Bella to give up the baby, Edward also proposes that Jacob impregnate Bella himself and Jacob even asks something along the lines of, “You want me to offer my stud services?” I would love an analysis of THAT.

[@alicepbg2042]

I don't remember that being in the book... but I believe you.

[@ariellak4867]

Right! I forgot about that! Edward felt that a kid by him would be a "monster", so he suggested to Jacob that if Bella wanted a kid, she could have one by Jacob.

[@cherusiderea1330]

I think that's pretty easy: Bella is an object that can be treated between the two of them.

[@alainamacdonald1621]

Yes!!! I would love an analysis of that part too! I regularly reread certain parts of the book simply because I love Leah and Seth's characters and wish they had a bigger part.

[@rahbeeuh]

@@ariellak4867 that sounds very Old Testament biblical

[@Camibug]

So the reason Edward didn’t want to have sex with Bella was not just that he was “old school” or whatever Bella told Charlie. Maybe that has something to do with it, but the reason he didn’t even want to have sex after their wedding is because he is so strong he could accidentally kill her VERY easily. So he didn’t want to have sex with her as a human.

[@geekgirl_luv4262]

I don’t think it’s that, I (unfortunately) watched the movies and there was some very strong “no sex before marriage” messaging

[@taybug77]

My husband and I still agree that we needed a story about Jasper, 'cause he's the best character, and his and Alice's relationship is the best one in the whole vampire/werewolf world. They actually choose each other. Alice saw it before Jasper did, but that can happen in real life to a non-supernatural level. Also, I will never get over Bella looking at her perfectly flat stomach and feeling the quickening which happens well into the 2nd trimester.

[@desdemonahappy]

But wasn’t jasper, like, a civil war soldier …in gray?

[@taybug77]

@@desdemonahappy Yes he was a confederate soldier. That would honestly make for some great storytelling because you could mirror the slavery issue with his turning young/new vampires purely for their "newborn" strength and using them like weapons and not like people. You could touch on how the frick the confederacy loses when they have literal superpowered undead on their side. It would just be such a more interesting story, but I wouldn't trust Stephanie Myer to write it.

[@myxinautix8320]

I am 1000% down for an Alice/Jasper story, or a full, horror-themed Rosalie vengeance plot. Jasper's such a neat character. His accent is atrocious however.

[@taybug77]

@@myxinautix8320 Oh yeah a Rosalind creation/vengence story would be epic! And as a southerner and a Texan, yes, Jasper's accent was absolutely awful

[@cassidydavis4421]

Midnight Sun has so much more about Jasper’s abilities. Also I always thought she acted like she was in the second trimester because the pregnancy was a lot less than 9 months as the baby grew so quickly

[@katepetit13]

While Edward did control her a lot I’m not going to be upset about him not wanting to have sex with Bella because he wasn’t comfortable with potentially hurting her. That’s his choice. 🤷‍♀️

[@toxicginger9936]

YES! He can say 'No'. Coercion =/= consent.

[@Ganychan]

The thing is, the way it's portrayed is that he clearly wants to, but abstains as a means to create tension and prude sexiness. In any other context it would have been absolutely fine for him to say no, but here it's just the author creating a fantasy.

[@katepetit13]

@@Ganychan tbh it’s all so eck 🤣

[@MARDIA10]

I mean, he did drag her into marriage saying that sex after that will be okay... he is ignoring too much her needs, because, as being sexually abusive is painfull, also withholding sex can be. And he is withholding sex for a reason that is not of his concern, if she want to have sex and go up for the risk, oh well, but it's not up to him to decide.

[@hungrychat7304]

@Mardia Espinosa He didn't drag her. She willingly married him so she could be a vampire. She constantly begged him for sex and a bite and he wasn't comfortable with doing either of it without commitment, which is understandable.

[@luckofthescottish3723]

Litterly screamed "THANK YOU" when Alan said the dream dress was better than the actual wedding dress .... as someone who is getting married soon .... I would rather the dream dress !!!!

[@izzybeella8237]

hope you have a great wedding!

[@a.madison9625]

The real dress and the engagement ring were both ugly. The costumes on all the movies were tacky and pathetic. The production on all these films was so cheap looking.

[@sabrinasmith2702]

Me too!

[@diabloakland]

I hated the real dress but i have learned to love it. The dream dress is super boring and plain and basic and the dream dress is plain too but it’s very chic! To each their own tho

[@lauren8010]

sounds bad for the environment

[@ashleyhasenbein8979]

I just discovered you guys this week, and found that I really liked your channel! However, when I heard you guys reference Gilmore Girls AND Jane Austen as being superior, I fell in love and subscribed immediately!!!

[@mini3mayhem]

32:20 My honest to god reaction to this entire spiel was to say in the CinemaSins voice "says the 12 year old..."

[@akikaien6422]

After having a Twilight phase in middle school and early high school, suffering through many bad relationships, and being an adult in a good, stable marriage....I can say for sure that Twilight skews the minds of young girls if every adult female around them constantly hypes up Twilight asd "romantic" or "ideal." .... and also, Seth Clearwater is my favorite character

[@gabiluch87]

Seth is the purest soul in the entire series

[@nunyabusiness2276]

Seth is a sweetheart!

[@AlylovesDP]

I love twilight

[@breezy3392]

I fear that if Meyer ever wrote something from Seth's perspective, she'd find a way to ruin him too, smh

[@HollyAnneThePaganChaosWitch]

Mood. I agree! Except my favorite character is Marcus Volturi. His backstory always makes me cry.

[@prishaagrawal8332]

Jacob: What was the point? How was it right for anyone? Alan: It wasn't. *You've accurately diagnosed the Twilight series.* Thank you. Lmfaooo... the only good thing is the memes we got out of it.

[@trinaq]

Preach, it wasted the talent of the cast and crew, as well as the audience's time!

[@heathercropsey6834]

15:57 "I had a friend who made that face at me as I was driving away on my honeymoon, and it was you."

[@dakotamorlan2797]

This was the first ep where I truly appreciated that you have a film director on the team. A lot of thought was put into your cam angles, lighting and background, and it pays off!