Therapy & Theology: Red Flags We Shouldn’t Ignore in Relationships

In this episode, we'll tackle how the word "submission" has been abused and what it looks like to identify if a relationship has gone from dysfunctional to destructive.
Join Lysa TerKeurst; Licensed Professional Counselor Jim Cress; and Proverbs 31 Ministries' Director of Theological Research, Dr. Joel Muddamalle, for a conversation about therapy and theology.
Helpful links from Lysa TerKeurst and the Proverbs 31 Team:
- Not only is it OK for us to identify concerning behaviors and harmful actions against us, but it is biblical. Download Lysa’s free guide “Is This Normal? 15 Red Flags You May be Missing in Your Relationships” here: proverbs31.org/read/resource-...
- Get your copy of Lysa TerKeurst’s book “Good Boundaries and Goodbyes” here: www.p31bookstore.com/collecti...
Ready to take a personal next step in finding a Christian counselor? The American Association of Christian Counselors is a great place to find the right fit for you and your circumstances. www.aacc.net
#lysaterkeurst #proverbs31 #therapyandtheology #therapy #theology #womensissues #mentalhealth #emotionalabuse

[@AnGeLaOYA]

The problem with dysfunctional relationships is that the potentially toxic person can almost volunteer to change their behavior in a way that will keep you hopeful and keep you in the relationship. Becoming mentally strong enough and aware enough to know what authentic and real changes look like are very important or you may be volunteering to stay in a manipulative relationship because the other person who is potentially toxic is giving the illusion that you are controlling them with your boundaries and they are changing, but the changes that they are appearing to have are superficial at best and their underlying dysfunction is still there. You cannot let the appearances of the other person changing on your behalf be enough for you to stay in a relationship, unless the other person is authentically seeing you and hearing you and understanding you and responding in a way in which you need them to that is generally just showing you that they're healthier human beings for it and not as manipulative tactics. Potentially toxic people focus on exterior actions and do not want to deal with what is hiding out in the closet.

[@annatevesbanzon1359]

Thank u for reminding me.

[@sunnym163]

❤

[@gingerbryan2920]

YES!! Too true. Sad. A waste- of their own lives and their relationships. But only God can work in them and as He told me, He did not create us to be robots. We have free will. So He is trying to get us to hear Him and follow Him in the way we need to go, but He doesn’t force us or wave a magic wand and change us. We have to want it. We have to be willing to do the work He is guiding us in. And if He cant get someone to listen and want His ways, neither can we. I just have to make sure I am listening and doing the work He is guiding me in ❤️

[@KayQhosa]

All true. 💯

[@jacquelineford5503]

Amen, Amen. Lies is ALL I heard to keep me in meshed with his dysfunctional Family and our toxic relationship. I needed to love myself! Stop trying to please him and his family. Also, loved God First with all my heart, mind and soul.

[@tvcater1]

When you start recording your conversations with your husband …that’s a clear sign of being gaslighted

[@Thenextperson]

Oh Lord ❤ then he gets on the phone and deletes them 🤪

[@berlizgonzalez6736]

Just Wow!! Husbands love your wives as God has loved his church. That hit hard. I have not found a love like this. God always brings me back to him and reminds of the love I'm worthy of ❤

[@CoreyMuller-zi8ll]

Hello 🤗

[@jld4870]

‘They refuse to acknowledge that unhealed trauma needs to be worked out so it is not acted out’. So true for so many…sadly. Thank you Lisa, Jim and Joel. May we all know grow and rest in the truth of our redeeming savior Jesus.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching!

[@elizabethschilling7402]

May the entire body of Christ become healthy and whole that we no longer hurt each other. 🙏❤️

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@kat-75]

Amen to that.

[@carlahoglund8914]

I’m 71 & never knew until I got out of my 44 year marriage that this was what I was dealing with. In therapy, I was introduced to covert narcissism, I typically don’t like labels but he hit almost everything on the description. The red flags you’re listing also is true & I kept trying to change myself to make things work. The bar kept being raised!! I was totally wiped out as a person due to what he brought up about my past to take the focus off him!! I bought that for so so long. Glad this is being put out more & more. It’s hard when they claim to be a Christian & done years in Alanon/ACA. NO Change!! Thank you!

[@DJH97]

Oh gosh. I’m right there with ya. 30 year marriage I finally had to say good bye to. Almost lost my sanity. Tried and tried to keep him in therapy. Drew a boundary or two with stipulations around counseling and what I would continue to tolerate. He continued to cross them over and over and didn’t even care in the least. It was all my “past” and my problems even though he was my past for 30 years. He would twist scripture….invent scripture that wasn’t there etc. Thank God for education and good counselors.

[@tennilleedmond1344]

COVERT NARCISSISM WILL GET YOU!!!!! Lord have mercy. Better late than never! Even at 71, we will take it! You're still alive and in your right mind enough to learn and share your experience, insight and wisdom with others behind you!

[@SowingSeedsWithChristy]

Wow! 44 years and you got out and you're still standing! Congratulations! That's a win! Digest that. Pat yourself on the back and thank the Lord every day that you can now continue to make different choices with much better outcomes for yourself. Do keep yourself safe as you move fwd in your new life. I'm so glad you're getting therapy. Take it slow and as this trio said in another podcast, take some time to grieve, before you rebuild (my words).

[@veronicagrindley4450]

I'm so sorry you experienced this. I am leaving a 12 step program similar to Alanon because it can make things worse when you're dealing with these kind of people . The program isn't equipped to deal what they call outside issues. But really, they're not outside issues.

[@karendouglas8519]

I’m 74! I’m not out if this circus. God has revealed to me through circumstances that my husband is a narcissist also. No wonder I have been so unhappy all these years. I am taking in anything I can find on dealing with the abuse of a narcissist. I am having to reinvent myself by focusing on Jesus and doing everything for His glory not my husband’s. I will tell you it’s not an easy task. I envy you that you are now divorced. I am not so sure that that is right for me but I will continue to seek Gods wisdom and will. Yes even at 74 and 50 years of marriage. There is a lot of regrets for sure. I’m out of love for this narcissist. May God bless us all in the emotional abusive relationships.

[@projectqueen610]

I had this same convetsation..."I am supposed to be in safety in my marriage". AND I totally felt insecure, disoriented, and confused. No worries God healed 🙏

[@kaceyleann]

Wow, great discussion. Some manipulators are so cunning and good at disguising their true character. Your heart is blinded by “love” that you don’t realize the relationship is toxic until you’re in the thick of it.

[@alexanderbenjamin1522]

Hello 👋 Kacey, I love your words so much, like the way you put down your thoughts on note, it really sound so kind and lovely 🤗 how are you doing?

[@monicasoyombo3360]

I felt nauseous as you read the list...and a little scared. But I know that God allowed me to find your book and 3 months later this YT page so that I can get the help I need......Thank you all for your hard work and dedication to this topic. It is so needed. 🙏🏿

[@icecreamgirlrockyroad3547]

Same

[@user-oi8dp5ov2u]

Same

[@newlinsa]

Throughout my 19 year marriage, I have been dealing with abuse; spiritual, physical, and emotional. When I was an 18-year-old kid, newly married, I didn't know what to call it. I knew the physical abuse wasn't right, but it happened so infrequently...and he was so apologetic that I stayed. I could almost bear that, if I'm being honest. It's the emotional abuse that has just completely devastated me. For years I've dealt with debilitating depression and anxiety. 2020 was especially hard being in the same house with him for months and I quickly spiraled into a very dark place. I couldn't pray or read my Bible and just felt spiritually and emotionally empty. It has taken a LOT of therapy and work to get out of that dark place. I felt like I was in a deep pit that I had to claw my way out of. So, I chose to separate in hopes that we could both work on our own stuff and we could come to a place of healing...but it didn't work. And now we're under the same roof again and I'm trying to set boundaries that he's unwilling to honor. I feel sad, alone, and... trapped. If I'm being honest, I'm terrified. All the questions run through my head. Am I making the right choice? Will I be able to make it on my own? I don't want our marriage to end, but this relationship is not sustainable for me because he's unwilling to even talk to me about anything. I can't allow the depression that keeps knocking at my door to come in again...I can't deal with that again. And I can't even begin to heal from all the trauma because I'm continuously living in it. Please be praying for me to have wisdom to know what to do.

[@robinphillips6423]

Praying for your wisdom. This was my story. Please know God loves you and deeply cares about your physical, mental and emotional safety. You are precious to God. Please reach out to your therapist or counselor or family and make sure you are safe.

[@karenabbott5974]

You're NOT crazy and your husband is sinning against you. Look up OTRS: Ongoing Traumatic Relationship Syndtome.

[@karenabbott5974]

Also, the stress from staying around his behavior keeps your adrenal glands and psyche on constant alert for the next attack and your cortisol will stay elevated. It will wreck your health and your sleep. Don't stay that long. Take secret measures to learn how to take care of yourself after you leave him. After you leave, if you get a good settlement, live frugally.

[@BrittsTakes]

This is your sign. Take care of yourself by leaving and heal from this pain. It IS POSSIBLE and worth it. You deserve to live a joyful and prosperous life like God wants us to. Be strategic and don’t say A WORD about you leaving.

[@branver1172]

You might appreciate the book “When Loving Him is Hurting You”. I’m sorry you are going through this. Keep in mind we don’t have to handle these things alone. Police, pastors and therapists can be so helpful.

[@renchemarais8419]

DESPERATELY NEEDED TO KNOW THIS. SO TIRED OF ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS

[@daughtersofthekingministry1814]

Thank you so much for talking about this! It’s super needed.. Singles need so much help.. singles ministry is so needed and those that came from broken homes and then found Christ don’t know how to identify good relationships.. this needs to be talked about in the church

[@emmiem1354]

Wow!!! I can't even begin to describe how right you are!!!! Yes!!!!!

[@AbenaAsamoa]

I dnt think most churches care about this.

[@lemostjoyousrenegade]

➡️ More accurately, there are BILLIONS ‼️ who are from homes that weren’t “broken” who seriously need therapy! Some of them had parents who’ve stayed married for over 70 years. Having both parents in the home DOES NOT mean that the household is/was healthy. So many abusers came from extremely unhealthy/dysfunctional households/families where BOTH parents were/are living under the same roof.

[@henriettehofsink8003]

" loving other without loosing yourself" well said

[@hispoiema]

My 35th and last year of marriage, I was shaking, with pain throughout my body and insomnia and couldn't concentrate. He ignored me, explained why the things I said were incorrect, told me his needs, and used me as a sounding board. No relationship ever. He constantly told me to pray for him in order to make the marriage better, citing spiritual warfare on himself - and that's why he couldn't help it.

[@Bike4Life231]

Lysa, thank you so much for adding the part about what a relationship SHOULD look like, and what so many women expect and hope for in marriage. Yes, my heart longed to be seen and heard and thought of as beautiful. And the ability to stand before someone I loved completely open and vulnerable without fear of reflection, feeling completely safe. I just cried when you shared that. That is what I longed for so much in marriage but was never able to achieve, even after continually opening myself up throughout my marriage of almost 20 years. Now, finding out that I was living and loving someone who was not capable of empathy or true love, who was hiding under loads of hurt he refuses to address from childhood. Someone who was supposed to love, honor and cherish me, but instead was so hurtful emotionally, verbally and financially, and was that way to our two children as well. I am now going through a very intense and traumatic divorce with him. It is the most difficult thing I have ever had to go through in my life, but I am looking forward to the freedom and safety it will bring myself and my kids. Thank you for being so real and honest, and for including these two amazing gentlemen in your podcast. You all give me hope and understanding I never had before.❤

[@elizabethy2912]

God Bless you. I'm separating after 33 yrs. Just recently realized he was a covert narc. We care for a disabled adult child, so I'll stay married, but I've put up boundaries, and told him he needs to leave. May God protect you and uphold you as you go through this terrible process of divorce.

[@mdereus1]

I am thrilled that Christians are tackling this issue. Mental health is a HUGE issue in the world and that stems from issues that were discussed today. Blessings to all three of you as you discuss more specific issues. Thank you in pointing it always back to Jesus. From your list, I see areas for my improvement and to put healthier boundaries around some issues I am facing - drawing that line in the sand. May God bless your podcast as you reach more and more people. Shalom!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching!

[@zuuumbaaa]

When Lysa started reading the list of red flags I immediately recognized them from her new book, Boundaries and Goodbyes….even though in the book the reg flags are not listed under “emotional abuse”, when I read that list in the book - before seeing this video - I immediately thought: these are classical behaviors of emotional abusers/people with narcissistic tendencies. Thanks for speaking about it under the umbrella of emotional abuse in this video. Because when those behaviors consistently, that’s emotional abuse.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@annatevesbanzon1359]

Is the book good? I might buy it soon.

[@lisajohnson4744]

I was yelling, “Bingo! Bingo! BINNGOOO!” as I heard everything that has been said and done… 😆 I love affirmation!

[@princepesa]

@@annatevesbanzon1359 I started reading it last night. In ch 3. So far I have noticed from what I've read, Lysa has talked about the concepts in different youtube videos. I'm glad I bought the book though, but I think you could walk away with the concepts from the videos on here.

[@unapologeticallyauthentic2428]

Thank you. I’m going to order her book.

[@phophimadaba5706]

When I start a conversation about something I am not happy about my husband will always turn it against me… bringing up something I may have done or said in the past to keep me from addressing the issues at hand. He’ll always say, I’m acting this way because you did 1 2 3 the other time. He won’t address the said issue as it occurs but only brings it up when I talk about current issues. We really can’t communicate

[@AmandaMiller-ki4of]

I'm dealing with the same thing 😢

[@gloriahorvath3778]

Sounds like my ex

[@3rdDayPromise]

I wish I had heard this years ago when I was told by pastor’s there are no grounds for divorce. Fortunately, they sent me to their approved therapist, and she disagreed. I left the marriage and life was wonderful as a single mom for years, until life fell apart. I had carried guilt for years because “God hates divorce”, so I then felt God must be punishing me for getting divorced all those years ago. Long struggle to come to the conclusion that I wish I had been more careful in choosing a husband. God will use all my pain for His purposes. I just now understand those verses and feel like a huge weight was just removed from my shoulders! I wish I had learned more about boundaries raising my kids while coparenting, because now I am horrified watching my adult children being harmed by their father. I think it is with the intent of hurting me. So I am processing more guilt. I am so glad to see mental health issues finally being addressed by the church! That is the story God sent my storms for, just waiting for an eye of the storm to catch my breath! Thanks for sharing what God taught you in your storm!

[@colleenallison5860]

My friend and her husband spent the weekend with my husband and me. After my husband left for work Monday morning I took her aside to ask about a few incidents she observed to get her perspective. MU husband had told me I was wrong in my perceptions and he completely gas lit me. My friend told me that my perceptions were correct. My husband was being emotionally abusive during those specific instances. But she added that my husband had treated me horribly the entire weekend-not just during those incidents. I appreciated her perspective because my husband would rewrite my reality after situations in which he hurt me or was abusive.

[@Mommii517]

After 30 years of marriage my husband and I are separated because I am no longer willing to allow his emotional abuse. My pray is that his relationship with God will be strengthened and after that we'll see. I definitely have peace and am grateful for it. I'm so thankful for learning about boundaries. It's an ongoing work and Therapy is vital.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you, friend!

[@abriggs621]

Such a thorough list. Love this: "Is this relationship safe and is it sustainable?"

[@elainemartinez2021]

I wrote that down too. I never asked that question before. Any of the questions for that matter.

[@Tracey-Nichole]

No it's not safe and the abuser needs help.

[@victoria7120]

This is so important. It has brought me to tears to listen to these podcasts. God revealing the truth of what he has already begun to show me. I have been through several abusive relationships and I believe they were even worse because of me believing false interpretations or misunderstandings of Gods word. God will give you wisdom and understanding through the Holy Spirit if you just draw near to Him. He loves us so much! Thanks you so much!❤

[@rebeccamaness6756]

This is the final thing I needed to push me to let go of the toxic relationship I've been in. I think all the red flags were checked for this person. ALL of them! Even though I know so much about this topic of emotional abuse and I constantly research to gain more knowledge, this video was so helpful when put in a Biblical context that God calls me to let go of chaos and strive for peace!!

[@debrakrch-ur8wv]

Pursue peace.

[@suzannecoultard3673]

I FOUND MYSELF CHANGING AS A HUMAN BEING WHEN MY BOUNDARIES THAT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED AD NAUSEAM WERE IGNORED WITHIN THE NEXT 5 MINUTES TIME AND TIME AGAIN. I HAVE ALLOWED MY SARCASM TO BECOME WEAPONIZED AND NOT BEEN VERY NICE ABOUT IT. WHEN I SENSED THIS IN MYSELF I REMOVED AS THOSE PEOPLE FROM MY LIFE BECAUSE I WAS NOT ABLE TO AFFORD THE PATIENT OR THE EMPATHY FOR THAT SITUATION. I WILL ADMITTEDLY SAY I HAVE A SHORT FUSE BUT I ALSO COMMUNICATE MY BOUNDARIES VERY CLEARLY

[@LuhRen]

Recently just ended a relationship with a man who had ALOT of unaddressed trauma that was in the way of his growth as an individual and as a partner. He cheated and lied often. Luckily I was only with him 2.5 years but after what I learned in my last relationship i couldnt stick around for too long. Now im rebuilding and relearning what boundaries i need andnwhat i want out of a man and first priority is him working on healing from trauma. I also just ended some platonic relationships as well with people who could never take criticism and would always try to make it seem like it was my fault for things being the way they are. Never taking accountability for their actions, in fact they tried to escape responsibility all the time. As i got older almost every interaction i would have with them would make me feel crazy to so extent. I feel lighter now that they aren't around. I'm sad and mourning the end of relationships but I look forward to meeting new ppl

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're praying for you, friend!

[@tammyculp7274]

Excellent podcast and Joel really brought it full circle showing us how emotional abuse/manipulation started in the garden with the serpent.

[@melilinda7302]

Don't also deny narcissist -empath relationships,they will blame you for everything even for things you didn't do,trauma bonding also please be aware

[@daleenreed9560]

Absolutely. Once you sense you are in a relationship with a malignant narcissist, literally get out because it only gets worse. If you can get them to discard you first you will be better off, otherwise they will feel the need to monitor and punish you forever - it starts with the 'smear campaign' and their isolation of you, so you have no support. They turn everyone you know against you, paying them if they need to. They have no conscience, no empathy. It is entirely about them and their need to hold the 'power' and 'win'. They will not take no for an answer and will over react dramatically, flying into rages, stalking you, and rewriting history to others about you in a way you could never even recognize. Mine has manifest physically into chronic pain to the degree I can hardly walk from one room to another. There is only one way to break a trauma bond. I had to read Neil Anderson's book, The Bondage Breaker - twice and do everything in it. There is only One chainbreaker strong enough to come to your rescue when that happens. His name is Jesus Christ.

[@Cs-ry3fx]

When your significant other causes turmoil and so you never feel like you can relax around them-turmoil seems to always be either around the corner, a small incident or one misspoken word away. You have to tread lightly, as if on eggshells, just to survive. AKA the Eggshell syndrom. add in Narcissism and its a cocktail of a awful relationship. I too can write a book on such a life. Also how the church tries to keep relationships together when they should not be. and thus the children suffer and grow up and have trauma and leave the church. God through it all has sustained me and I live a emotional healthy life today without my ex. glory to God...

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're praying for you right now, friend!

[@Thenextperson]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Y’all don’t know how happy it makes me for people to actually know this exists ❤ I have nobody in my life or around me that has a CLUE ❤ now, I literally have to endure this until my children are older😢

[@sabrinafayne6641]

My husband is a meth addict and has been relapsed for 3 years. About 2 years ago I got on Facebook and looked up another man and was looking through his photos. That’s as far as it went but I had forgotten about it and my husband asked me about it and at first I denied it then realized yes I did do it. I went back and confessed that I had done it and I was wrong for doing it. Fast forward 2 years and my husband now monitors everything I do and every where I go. I am innocent of things he accuses me of but his addiction to meth causes him to have paranoia and not accurately assess things. I feel hopeless. I’ve also caught him purchasing porn and looking at porn within the last year. 24 years of marriage and relationship but listening to these videos I truly believe I’m in a destructive relationship

[@ChristianaMaru3]

I’m sorry Sabrina. May God go before you, and guide your way ❤

[@debrakrch-ur8wv]

Get out ,make a plan. Get help & support. He's dangerous

[@warcraftaddict117]

Lisa, I am SO sorry you had to go through what you described. I have read some of your books and this makes me want to read more of your books. I went through a narcissistic marriage as well and it is a horrible thing to inflict on men or women. We need people like you and your ministry partners encouraging and planting wisdom in people's hearts, hiding the word of God in their hearts so that they don't even ENTER or entertain these destructive relationships and save themselves a world of heartache and physical ailments (I have PTSD) from it. You make a fantastic point in saying the medical issue like if you notice a lump on yourself, you would investigate your health, so not to neglect investigating our spiritual and emotional health as well. Also, to have godly counsel, a standard to hold things up against, how a healthy relationship in looking at the other's phone in what context and manner. There are so many gold nuggets here. I am so happy I listened to this. I am myself working on my biography describing what it is like as a believer, what struggles are "unique" to the believer in this situation so hopefully others can understand or at least gain some perspective when they come across someone in that scenario--how to interact and minister to them and how to be a true friend. and how we can and how we ought to behave as family in Christ to people who come through this or are struggling through this. I am very much interested in your courage group. I would love to connect with and encourage others who have been down that path or are emerging from that path.

[@LorraineParis1]

If someone has not committed to the Lord and let go of hurt pain throughout their life it’s easy for them to fall into these relationship problems. Getting to the root of the problem is surrendering to Jesus.

[@belindaauntbhiggins7716]

My life is committed to Christ. As a wife I have surrendered & worked hard to get to the root of my own issues. I can not do anything about my husband’s choices. I have lived in hell trying to do the “Christian” thing & stay. Please don’t be one of those people who say that these problems wouldn’t be there if their life was surrendered. Mine is. And I still live in hell with his choices and because they are mental & not physical & he hides behind mental illness & being a first responder hero, I have NO ONE who will help me because he looks like the one who needs all the help. Your comment sounds nice & “godly” but it’s not reality. If you haven’t lived with a gaslighting manipulator as a believer & not had help, even from my church, saying these things are all spiritual and that’s the ONLY answer is so hurtful and borderlines on “spiritual abuse”. You don’t seem like you want to be that person. Please pray for truth & wisdom for these types of situations. Someone around you might really need your help & their spiritual status is not the only answer, it is one, but not the only one. I pray for you for peace & truth. Have you heard of reboot recovery? I encourage you check it out. It’s eye opening what trauma does to people, even when they want to live Godly.

[@saraliehitesman4547]

I completely agree with you on many things you address that is definitely a reality in our lives. There’s never the “Christian” thing to do. There’s absolutely no reason to stay in an abusive relationship as God Himself does stay at all in the individuals life. God has given us the option of living a free life, having the choice to keep to His Holy Word, known as the scriptures. It definitely does sound like your husband has a great need for help, a deep internal issues to confront, only he can come to the truth of his own actions. My sincere heart goes out to you as I pray on my knees, figuratively of course, I’m not sure how you feel exactly as I have not been in a romantic relationship, at least a healthy Christ honoured relationship with a man in my life. My mother though is unfortunately very toxic to me and my adding to the pain I have had to deal with for about 21 years now. The reality is that I do NOT have the strength to continue with a relationship at all with her, as the second chance I was excited about to make it work. To the point where I broke, snapped as if I was the queen of crazy. I’m sorry I couldn’t help on my part of my relationship with her but it is my fault that I broke down, I allowed her to enter back into my life only to let myself bowing down to her every whim and order. I have released it over God daily sometimes even throughout my day. 😢 again my heart cries out for the individuals that have dealt and deal with reality relief.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

Surrendering to Jesus does nothing to change an abuser's behaviour towards you. It may however help you to see in biblical texts as to what kind of leader husband/ shepherd that you submit to and what kinds Jesus used incredibly hard words with and was not in relationship with.

[@LorraineParis1]

@@belindaauntbhiggins7716 You misunderstand. Everyone has free will. If someone in your life or mine doesn’t want to choose life that’s up to them. I know who I am in Christ. I believe in prayer for those who need the veil taken off their eyes. You don’t know my life in one paragraph I wrote. God bless you and no it is not Gods will for anyone stay in a relationship if they are being abused. I’ve been their too. I’m a child of the most High God and not just calling myself a Christian. I believe he is the God of the possible and I have much faith and will never give up praying for friends and loved one no matter what it looks like. I walk by faith not by what I see. God bless you! God knows what you have been through and he know what I have been through.

[@LorraineParis1]

@@KJ-lb4tj I never said that my life in Christ could change someone else will.

[@AllaKovch]

Listen to the body, Jim said. This is sooo true!

[@LolaDiLello-wm3ud]

If you’re being treated as less than or you’re in an emotionally unsafe relationship, remember that God loves and cares about you and your well being more than your marriage.

[@lanieanderson6480]

I’d love to hear them do an episode sometime about when you have difficult or destructive relationships with parents. That has some difficulties and differences from other relationships or those with spouses.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for your suggestion, Lanie!

[@joyceallsopp8209]

Same here. I believe my most difficult relationship to be with my mother

[@jeannemariemues6854]

There are thousands upon thousands of adult children estranged from their parents now... all claiming they've been abused. That would be a dilemma to conquer in this generation.

[@amberneal9518]

I'm so glad I found you guys exactly on point in my opinion about eating the forbidden fruit and God not wanting us to bear the difference if knowing good from evil. I agree 💯 percent.

[@janeeyre8241]

Fabulous interview and unpacking of this very delicate and potentially devastating relationship dynamic. It has been my burden and you spoke healing and validation into my soul. Thank you 🙏

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're so glad you're here!

[@bettymakin5842]

What if the destructive relationship is with your mother? I’ve set boundaries, and our relationship has crumbled. So sad as she is in her 80’s. The pain of not having a relationship with her at this stage of life is hard to bear.

[@emilykirkman8468]

I’m in the same situation!! My mom is a little younger but it’s still heartbreaking 💔. I think it’s up to you but for me I’m minimizing contact as much as possible.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're stopping and praying for you right now, Betty.

[@kshaw9179]

I'm in the same situation, with my dad in his 80s. Terribly sad.

[@darlenegeorge5204]

Does she have senility

[@joyceallsopp8209]

I'm in the same situation, I finally hit 40 and it's at an all time extreme. My mother is 65 this year and seems to have got worse in the last 12 months. Her mother was vile towards me for years too

[@samsamthecat492]

Sometimes people, including me, think keeping the peace as far as it concerns me is to just be quiet and let them yell at me because when I would speak up, it would only cause him to get more angry, even if just trying to explain the truth.

[@bronwynsimons7028]

Wow❤ That truly was the most insightful Bible induced discussion on emotional abuse. My core is shaking. Thank you so very much y'all for allowing God to use you to educate the ashamed, broken, emotionally abused Christian. I am the Christian wife of a Christian covert narcissist Sad but true story

[@robintrentham-qg1no]

The Bible says for a man to love his wife like he loves CHRIST JESUS

[@elizabethnajjar1375]

Thank you all for sharing! This was Bible study and therapy session warped into what that felt like a heating pad on a tired muscle! God does care about every aspect of our lives and wants the best for all of us!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Elizabeth!

[@zandramorgan440]

Yes removing oneself, eliminating, ending, terminating, is the only way to access Peace.

[@barbarastewart8066]

Wish I had a friend like Jim😊. No matter what church I attend, how long I'm there, I very seldom walk away with friends. Although I do enormous work in the Vineyard, I just find myself with a few. Single and female of color is so hard.. But I keep going. I've been in the mental health environment for 50 years and people more so now, especially church are most in denial. Blessings PS: praying for a mentor, a bold and unafraid mentor.

[@lemostjoyousrenegade]

Hello, love. You don’t need a mentor. Honestly, you don’t. I suggest you be still and KNOW. You have intuition. When we listen in the silence, we tap into the Source of wisdom. No one holds/has more wisdom than another. Some of us are simply more drawn/compelled to turn within. Let those who have ears hear. The Truth has a feeling tone. You know when you get that feeling of “Something told me that something was off about that (situation/person/place/thing/condition).”? Or.. “I had a strong feeling that I was correct about that; it turns out that I was spot on!” I suggest though (if you feel so inclined) reading Joel Goldsmith’s The Thunder of Silence, Leave Your Nets and/or Spiritual Interpretation of Scripture. Additionally, you may find great value in listening to recordings of Joel Goldsmith speaking to his students. ➡️Search 🔍 The Infinite Way’s channel on KZbin. “Let God Mold Our Desires” is one of my personal favorites. Much love to you from San Francisco. 🌉♥️💫

[@lindahall1083]

I think that part of our situations of being in abusive relationships is that we are made to feel like we have nowhere to go and no one will fully understand our situation. Reality is that just about anyone we know would be willing to take us in until we are on our feet again. I was taken in by a cousin that I didnt really even know well. God put me there. My cousin was salve to my soul. My husband of 34 years was a narcissist who was totally disabled and had a sexual addiction. I left 17 years ago. He died 5 years ago (progression of the disease). I learned to forgive him, but some of the junk comes back now and again. Jehovah-Rapha (healer) helped me through those around me.

[@tkandake5564]

“The battle was presented in a field that they weren’t expecting.” “That’ll preach!” Amen! That short sentence packs soooo much.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching!

[@happygilmore3706]

Yes I parked there too! 😢 wow 😮

[@fortnitegod2236]

Walking in uncharted territory is always a little scary but well worth the effort to become better.

[@susannagiesey9657]

I prayed for a season of healing in family relationships and then saw this video. So helpful!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Susanna!

[@melilinda7302]

Yes to heal the broken pieces,you can do only yourself,not waiting to heal the broken pieces from another person,you should heal yourself,sending love,light,happiness all of you! ❤️ 😘 🙏 😇

[@elishavahwilson1601]

Obeying God might look like we May have to pursue a peace that the relationship may not be fostering. Thank you.

[@nickie2303]

I wish I would have heard this 20 years ago. I have been dealing with this for along time and I have always blamed myself. Then Yahweh called me out of the darkness and He has changed me ALOT. My husband tells me that I can live with out praising God everyday that I don’t have to let Jesus consume me the way He has. I don’t want to live with one foot out and one foot in I want to be consumed with Christ. I don’t want people to see me I want them to see Christ in me. For my life is not my own.

[@karateana7593]

This has been the most helpful advice/council I have come across on this subject, I have been having a terrible time with all that you've been speaking on and have reached my limit, I cant fulfill my side if he isnt fulfilling his, I dont respect him because his behavior is not respectable, I can't honor someone who is dishonorable. Thank you so much for yr help.

[@joycebates6411]

I am presently reading Good Boundaries and Goodbyes and also Leslie Vernick's The Emotionally Destructive Marriage. Still having trouble knowing exactly what boundaries to set. He hasn't made any of the changes he has promised. He's been supporting his secretary financially for years...I've been paying for (his business) life insurance for which I am not the beneficiary. She is 37% beneficiary. My husband professes to be a Christian. He has said, with tears in his eyes, that he is just looking forward to the Lord saying "well done thou good and faithful servant." I have recently been convinced that he has strong narcissistic personality traits. And one last thing I chuckle about: my husband is very proud of his humility.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you, friend!

[@chasg0801]

I am currently going through an emotional abuse situation with my husband of 9 yrs. He has progressively gotten worse recently to the point where I was actually afraid of what he might do in one of his explosive rage episodes that I had to take my daughter and leave. I have felt so guilty because I ignored the signs before we got married; I blamed it on stress of not having enough money, of kids, etc because I loved him to the point where he was my answered prayer. I realize now that I should have taken a step back and really thought about what I would accept and what I wouldn't. Now I know what I will tolerate and what I won't tolerate any longer and if this cannot be achieved, we will go our separate ways. Life has certainly not turned out the way I thought it would but God continues to be faithful and teach me to lean on him for all things. I'm so thankful for this podcast and for the wisdom given to help me to see what God truly wants for me. I am praying for peace and restoration of our relationship, but if that is not possible, I pray that God will show me the way to go next. Thank you for your wisdom.

[@danilaroche1156]

I feel for you. God will fill you with so much purpose, peace and joy that whether ur spouse is with you or not, won't matter as much. Getting to that place will take time but it will come. Stay in the word and the fellowship of believers.

[@deb9784]

Thank you for sharing your story! So often the true colors are hidden and so hard to spot! I am so glad that you are pressing into all that the LORD has for you! It's HIS promises we hold onto anyway! I've hard very dark relationships in my past as well (coming from parents who had a strained marriage), and trying to find a way through, caused me to seek the LORD with all that I am. Check out Hosea 2. HE promises to use the Valley of Achor (trouble) as a door of hope! So often when I expected HIS judgement, instead HE brought me a word of HOPE! Romans 8:28 HE works all things together for good! It is my prayer that a separation can produce repentance and change! But reconsiliation starts here! GOD bless you on your journey, dear sister in CHRIST! 💞🙏💞

[@mariangelasanabria9049]

Don't blame yourself or feel shame, that is the devil. The gaslighting, masks they wear, and lies make it impossible for you to see that you're with a narcissistic personality unless you have experience. I had a decent relationship with the Lord from a child, but narcissism is a very powerful demon that God in his Providence allowed you to encounter for your own spiritual development. Please keep your daughter from harm, I separated, went back, and had more children, but my eldest daughter is now mentally handicapped from the trauma. Please don't move without the Holy Spirit. I eventually met a man who cared for me for 6 years like a pearl before God took him to be with him. I wouldn't trade those 6 years for any other man on the planet. Trust in God's Will and his Love for you and your daughter. He will be your spouse. He cares for the orphaned. "You give and take away.. My heart will choose to say, Blessed be The Name"

[@danilaroche1156]

You should leave. I didn't say divorce but I'd separate.

[@precious4111]

Like what you said in the beginning, need to go back after listen to all of it. Definitely my spouse has issues. Now been in a nursing facility over 2 yrs and still will yell at me and tell me I'm wrong. Can't walk, pray for him to be healed but God needs to get to his heart first. Now my older child wants these boundaries and it's more like controlling. Hate it. Wish I could get counsel because all this has wreaked havoc. I'm not perfect but no real support during a horrible time. Spouse told children that he never told me......etc.

[@martimoore4411]

Thank you! In the middle of an emotional unsafe atmosphere. This is so on target!!

[@janeotto4132]

Not all hurt people, hurt people. Some have grown and done the work to stop that destructive behavior. It doesn't matter how often the toxic behavior happens, it matters if the toxic person can see what they are doing and change their behavior when they are confronted. God gives us a process for reconciliation. Repent, ask for forgiveness, Contrition and Restitution . If this doesn't happen, reconciliation with a toxic person is unsafe. We are to be their helper. Helping is doing right by them. Sometimes doing right is opposite of what your partner wants. Doing right can be bringing truth to the light.

[@jodyd6163]

You've just described a narcissist and rarely will they ever be willing to acknowledge they have a problem, let alone get help.. You practically said that.

[@allisonb.8492]

This is soooo good. Lysa has brought me so much awareness to this topic!! Thank you, Lysa for being so real and sharing your darkest moments. You are changing us for the better.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Allison!

[@mariethompson6711]

This explains my marriage exactly!! We have now been separated for three years

[@noelynkoutalo6174]

Thankyou guys for this podcast. The Biblical insights by Joel was uplifting and a great encouragement to me. God Bless your great program.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're glad you enjoyed it!

[@ryansilich3366]

So to sum up honor only what is honorable but love the unlovely.

[@foreignlovedreams]

When you first start looking into red flags in relationships, you may become too obsessed with them and try to find one around every corner, especially if you are experiencing difficulties in your life that may be relevant to your own self-image, your prospects, and other issues that may influence the way you view your surroundings. 1) Communication is one of the fundamental aspects of a healthy relationship, so if there are any problems with being honest and open towards each other, then this should be considered a red flag. 2) Overly possessive behavior can lead to uncontrollable anger and even abuse, so if you are in this situation, make sure you and your partner either try to sort it out or get out of the relationship. 3) As your relationship grows, you start to think about the future, and with that comes your goals and aspirations. 4) Little white lies don’t stay little or white for very long.

[@AmandaMiller-ki4of]

well put I'm living with this every day

[@lordjill58]

Both parties in the relationship need healing and acknowledgement of their own brokenness. Grace and mercy and patience and prayer heals. Walk humbly with our God.

[@BrittsTakes]

Thank you so much for this information and your professional perspectives. I NEEDED this sign. I’ve been thinking to myself for quite some time how would God feel if I left this relationship? Would he feel like I gave up ? or would he be proud of me for honoring my needs and leaving someone who was toxic and not willing to take responsibility or change. Yes! Now I know I am making the right decision. Thank you so much!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Brittany!

[@simoiyahector-morales3781]

Sooooooo glad i listened to this video. It has brought perspectives on my dysfunctional marriage and narcissistic husband. Thank you for letting me be comforted that wanting to separate is not a sin that will sentence me to hell. However, living with the financial, emotional and spiritual abuse for yearsssss is unacceptable and i need to seek help for me and our 3 kids.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for being here, praying for you friend!

[@hispoiema]

When police were directing traffic due to an accident, my husband always told me to ignore them and go around them. I would get so confused because of Eph 5. I would hear him screaming at me of how to drive even when he was not with me. After I left, I had intrusive thoughts of him and those he turned against me for at least a year or more.

[@lck2978]

If you're reading this, please pray for me/us. I'm only 6:25 into this episode and it's creepy/painful how accurate it is of my situation. Thank you for your ministry and for having Jim & Joel on with you! I believe that shows humility and a willingness to vet what you say through licensed academic professionals.

[@lck2978]

Wow, just finished the show and what a spiritual & emotional gold nugget this has been! I've been dancing with dysfunction for so long and I'm so deep in the cave, unable to see and sort things out. But, this has brought just the slightest glimmer of hope that I've so desperately needed. And again, I love that you have a biblical scholar and a licensed counselor on the show with you. It all equates to bringing such profound wisdom!

[@DahliaBrynn]

Not only did my husband use these verses to demand obedience, but he also used it to manipulate me into allowing him to have a second wife, because it says “wives”, not wife. And he always ignored the submit to each other. And his version of “loving” me was beating me down (emotionally) into submission. Obedience was his goal. In everything.

[@danilaroche1156]

He's got balls! He's demonic. Leave.

[@DahliaBrynn]

@@danilaroche1156 I did 💜

[@lindiwemalebye9014]

I so much needed to hear this, thank you 🙏🏽 thank you 🙏🏽

[@arlenetecon1873]

Wow! So timely 🙏 thanks very helpful ❤

[@deloresgrey2260]

If it breaks trust, it's destructive.

[@deniselandingham4500]

Thank you so much for sharing this!

[@johannaboman2780]

I highly recommend for anyone who thinks they may be in a destructive relationship to read The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick. She takes a hard walk through relationship, God's view and dispels lies we may believe that keep us stuck.

[@essking2877]

This interview was so insightful, thank you!

[@nasawonderwoman1427]

Love this series, really helps. A great talk and love all three perspectives.

[@martyjoyking4905]

Good stuff right here! Thanks guys!

[@sportschap]

Thank you for your thoughtful consideration of a vitally important topic. I appreciated the perspective of dealing with various areas of dysfunction on a spectrum, and your distinction between difficult relationships and destructive relationships. I was however disappointed to hear you recommend Leslie Vernick, as from my direct interaction with her, I would not consider her a credible biblical resource person in dealing with the issue of emotional abuse. Yes, she offers obligatory minimal disclaimers to cover her bases but some of her more serious errors are: - asserting that if someone “feels” they are being abused, then they are being abused, regardless of the reality of the situation. I.e. The accused is always assumed to be guilty, even though in actuality there are a broad range of reasons why someone might feel abused, even if that is not the case. - asserting that the vast majority of abuse is perpetuated by men. The evidence indicates, rather, that women are equally or more emotionally and verbally abusive than men. But she will not acknowledge that fact. - telling women that they cannot depend on pastoral authority in their churches to help them when they are in abusive relationships. Yes, there are horror stories about church leadership that refuse to believe women who are being abused. Nevertheless, the Scriptures teach us to look to church leader ship to resolve problems whenever possible, even if the leader ship is not perfect. - encouraging women to separate from a spouse if they “feel“ like they are being abused, regardless of whether it is true, and without expending the necessary effort to resolve the abusive situation first. Of course, if staying with a spouse poses safety risks, a woman or a man should temporarily separate from a spouse until a safe relationship is restored. However, The Scriptures are clear that God hates divorce, and that a separation should only take place with eventual reuniting as a goal, and certainly not for the purpose of remarriage, unless there has been immorality.

[@jeanhoffman5676]

Married to a Sex addict, intimacy Anorexic for 42 years. He is in recovery. His dysfunction has affected how I deal with the world. I am working on us and me. A whole new paradigm shift for my life. I think I should write a book.

[@margaritajohns7907]

Thank you so much for this was a fantastic topic and with so much insight and wisdom ❤

[@emilyetter1463]

You've just described the last 21 years of my life. Now faced with a divorce. 💔🙏

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're praying for you right now, Emily!

[@emilyetter1463]

@@OfficialProverbs31Ministries thank you so much! Please pray also for my husband and daughter. He is leading my daughter and the woman and her daughter that's moved in down a very dangerous path away from God. They need prayers too. 🙏

[@annatevesbanzon1359]

You three are a godsend! Thanks for sharing 👍 😊

[@RachelSDay1982]

It's good news to hear Jim give his story of "change is possible" for some of these destructive tactics used by many "Christian" men to control others.

[@heathermbcon]

Omg you just said so many things that align with what's happening in my life. I love him, but can see this all happening in my reality.

[@pattymackey5467]

This is refreshing and Relavent content thank you so much!

[@nicolematt633]

Great discussion. Helpful knowledge.

[@andreadonovan3641]

Thank you for this word

[@theknittogetherfamily711]

I feel like this applies to church big time! Pastor/congregant relationships. You never expect it in that setting either.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@erical7051]

These teachings are so valuable, truly a gift! Thank you!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Erica!

[@sherryclark8121]

Thank you for presenting this in Biblical Principles so that people can sort through the abusers twisted manipulation against Biblical Principles...

[@zibratesmom-giftsforlife8751]

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for this. 😌. I’ve been researching and listening to a lot about this subject for over a year now. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve also started counseling; But this has been one of the most helpful, validating info so far. Thank you. 😌

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching, friend!

[@MomDocTravels]

This is so helpful!! Thank you all for pouring out and discussing a hard topic with truth and grace!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Zoe!

[@loisparker5046]

You all have lifted my spirit hugely today! God bless you. Thank you for your ministries.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Lois!

[@GLORYWIELDERS]

This is one of the most powerful video conversations on this I have heard. These are wonderful revelations, and it is a great tool for me to give to my!! Thank you!! 😘👍🤗🙏🕊️❤️‍🔥🙌❤️

[@airplane800]

Many years ago, I registered on a Christian dating website. I had a nice profile talking about my experience in many ministries, etc... My boss who was not a Christian but was very handsome and successful posted his profile with a nice picture. He wanted to prove to me that all those Christian women didn't have any values. They were just looking for looks and money. He acted as jerk as he was contacting the women, and many were contacting him. He sent all kinds of red flags, but they kept writing to him. He slept with 6 of those women, two were worship leaders in their churches. I probably had only two or three women writing to me though I've been an engaged Christian since I was 14 years old. Many women will see just what they want to see.

[@mmommo-hx4dx]

wow

[@tamigiblin3807]

Thank you all! I feel Hope with direction. Even if this Marriage doesn't work out. ❤

[@jacquelinesheehan5748]

So good! Thank you all.

[@JanaeSarah]

Ya'll just blew my mind. I'm so thankful for this series and all the content you put out. Love the Biblical interpretation by Dr. Joel and the way Jim, Joel, and Lysa break it down and show me how to reorganize my thinking based on the Scriptures!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching, Sarah!

[@mb1015]

What you have discussed about passive aggressive, and divorce, has been so helpful to me. Thank you

[@ScorpionMaiden75]

Thank you ❤ I wish I had seen something like this years ago. My ex had me thinking and feeling like I was losing my mind. I was put on medication because he'd lie to the doctor without me in the room. Claims he was only trying to help me stop having panic attacks around him.... 😢

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're so sorry you've had to walk through this. Praying for you right now, friend.

[@ScorpionMaiden75]

@@OfficialProverbs31Ministries I appreciate all the prayers I get. Bless you all ❤️🙏🔥👑🔥🙏❤️