There's a "Bowl of Spaghetti" Under This EV?! Porsche Taycan Hoist Review

For the first time ever, we're featuring a Porsche vehicle on Munro Live! Kevin and Armin put a Taycan on the hoist to examine the underbody.
Munro Live is a KZbin channel that features Sandy Munro and other engineers from Munro & Associates. Munro is an engineering consulting firm and a world leader in reverse engineering, costing, and teardown benchmarking.
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[@jamesengland7461]

That bundle of spaghetti looks like an attempt at a homemade Octovalve using the ENTIRE parts bin and all the clamps, elbows, hoses and pumps. And an extra gallon of coolant.

[@bluetoad2668]

Just what I was thinking too. Not what I'd expect to see on a Porsche costing twice what a better performing model S does. Nice interior but badly engineered and terrible software - for Porsche fans only.

[@MaurizioLattuada]

COTS FTW

[@switzerland3696]

That is what happens when you get pushed to get it done, but you are just out of the prototype stage, so a refined prototype is what you get.

[@peteravolio2695]

​@@bluetoad2668Define better performing

[@ronn4061]

Lmao😂 @homemade

[@Robbie6298]

That almost looks like what my landscaper Pauly did with my sprinkler system when I wanted to add a few zones

[@lucifersatoshi]

"Very INTERESTING EXECUTION. I've never seen anything like this. It's very.... uh mmm... INTERESTING. So unique and.... ummm intersting execution." Engineer jargon for "What the F*CK am I looking at???"

[@rogerstarkey5390]

I literally 😂😂😂😂😂'd at your post. 👍

[@Tschacki_Quacki]

I'll never forget Sandy saying: "Uhm... seems like the people who designed this, uhm.... didn't have their brains... uhm... functioning in the right way."

[@imtheonevanhalen1557]

If you follow any of the mechanic channels that work on German cars, they warn people to stay away because of the plastic fittings tendency to harden and break. That bowl of spaghetti is a land mine waiting to happen....

[@AirzonesBlasters]

To be fair though, you're not getting the same heat cycles as you would in an ICE engine bay

[@capn_shawn]

​@@AirzonesBlasters The heat cycling is primarily from the liquid temperature... not so much the under-hood air temperatures. With the exception of a few "Hot V" connections and turbo coolant lines, which are mostly metal in the hot zones, the plastic is the same temperature as the liquid inside... which is hotter than even the hottest engine bay. This is why heater hoses inside the cabin and hoses in front of the radiator (in cool air) fail just as often. I drive a Porsche and can guarantee that cluster of hoses, valves and connections is a 100% guaranteed problem to whoever owns that car after 3 years.

[@tomwojcik7896]

@@capn_shawn I think you're right that, ultimately, the Porsche spaghetti will fail, but I think @airzonesblasters' point was that EV coolant runs at much lower temps than ICE coolant, which is almost always true.

[@capn_shawn]

@@tomwojcik7896 You may be correct, as I know next to nothing of EV cooling loops. I do, however, build quite a bit of IGBT cooling systems on large electric motors and I can say confidently that with a Permanent Magnet Motor (a motor that has no magnetizing current), the temperature swings on the coolant are directly proportional to the amps going to the motor. Full load = max heat No load = zero heat If it is the thermal cycling that gets the FRP connections to break, I would think an EV would have worse thermal swings than an ICE vehicle that gets hot once and stays hot. But that is just a guess. That and the fact that I own both a Mercedes and a Porsche and don't trust Germany's ability to make plastic cooling parts.

[@journeyman291]

You need to get a hoist that goes higher, or shorter employees

[@MooseOnEarth]

... or a recessable walkway unter the hoist. 😀

[@theagentsmith]

A foot garage 😄

[@aaron___6014]

@@MooseOnEarth that's the most expensive and dumb approach. Do you work for Porsche.

[@bob15479]

Imagine the mass of the rat’s nest once it’s full of coolant 😳

[@joshualewis3337]

The Taycan has been out for over 3 years now. And the snake's nest of coolant pipes hasn't changed. Will be interesting to see if they change it for the upcoming refresh.

[@radicalrick9587]

*I doubt it, while Tesla moves at lightning speed, Porsche moves at molasses speed.*

[@deadbeef16]

Will be interessting to compare with the next Gen of Taycan :)

[@charlesrovira5707]

Very informative. Incredible mess at the front. It looks like it was designed by an arachnid *Rube Goldberg.*

[@markplott4820]

well VW fired Herbert Diess , thats why. now VW group is controlled by Porsche guy.......lol. can we say MAFIA.

[@Hotspur37]

Is that bowl of spagheitti made with PVC pipe, it looks like my last DIY plumbing job

[@radicalrick9587]

*Don't sell yourself short, I'm sure your DIY was made to last whereas Porsche was designed to fly apart when it's hit by an everyday road hazards.*

[@bob15479]

That reminds me of the DIY sprinkler pipe I saw at an electrical engineer’s house 😂 engineers always do the goofiest stuff at home

[@MooseOnEarth]

But this "bowl of spaghetti" can be repaired with standard parts, just like a DIY sprinkler pipe, even in 20 or 30 or 40 years from now. In contrast, a broken or malfunctioning Octovalve will set you back big time in terms of money, availability and waiting time. When you really think about repairability, the proprietary super-integrated parts are rarely a good choice.

[@boredKiwi]

@@MooseOnEarth totally agree. My Kona has numerous high-quality solenoid valves comprising the heat pump system, any one of which can be disassembled for repair if needed.

[@Alhussainba]

@@MooseOnEarth forget about 40 years, this thing will malfunction in a few years, if you keep this vehicle for 40 years then you probably would repair this system A LOT.

[@esbrasill]

yup, I'm an electrical engineer and my swimming pool pump house looks like that

[@funbarsolaris2822]

​@@Alhussainbait doesn't seem to be though, is there any evidence of taycans and etron gts breaking down all the time? Not that I can see, they're everywhere where I live, never seen or heard of them breaking down. They've already been on the road for years now

[@crashcore_cc]

The lack of small overlap counter measures is really disappointing, especially in such an expensive vehicle.

[@ClockworksOfGL]

Sounds like Porsche assumed nobody would test it.

[@georgepelton5645]

From the video, it sounds like the expensive vehicles are the least likely to get SORB countermeasures. Due to their low volume and therefore not likely to be tested by IIHS.

[@user-rs1fo2dd9b]

ironic, you'd think an expensive vehicle would go above & beyond to keep occupants safer in a crash

[@davidpaulsen1510]

That spaghetti is going to end up on a curb...

[@obfuscator]

Great vehicle to drive, never to own and what now looks like assemble too. Thanks for sharing.

[@markplott4820]

Taycan drives like a old lady , Compared to PLAID S .

[@mrm1885]

@@markplott4820 How do you know?

[@DimitarStanev]

@@markplott4820 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fp-cgoqgrauDga8 9:35 you don't know what you're talking about.

[@southport3399]

[Editing Team] Thanks guys for continuing to expand the acronyms into the appropriate words - it helps greatly when I misinterpret what is spoken due to speaking speed/accent/pronunciation differences between various English speaking nations 😄

[@boredKiwi]

The coolant plumbing was relatively tidy compared to the mess around the rear drive unit. Such a dog's breakfast could be due to poor interaction between engineering groups or overbearing management.

[@bobmcnulty3500]

Here is the bin of parts we have, make it work!

[@henvan8737]

All that pipe work so close to the front of the vehicle makes for an expensive repair even in a minor front on crash.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

The Porsche badge makes it an expensive repair no matter what.

[@lennyvalentin6485]

If you buy Porsche, the cost of repairs should be the least of your concerns. If you worry about cost, you should buy something else.

[@memertmemes2586]

​@@lennyvalentin6485people love saying that but there's no reason consumers should be buying products with such shitty, cost cutting engineering.

[@radicalrick9587]

@@Robert-cu9bm *Exactly, VW logo and it's a $200 job, take off the VW logo and slap on a Porsche badge then all of a sudden it's a $2,000 job.*

[@clu4u]

Teslas are no cheaper to repair, aluminum body work makes it an instant write off.

[@BigBrotherHal2001]

Low under the front end is a dangerous and costly place to locate such a maze of cooling valves. Seems like any minor interaction with common road debris could be catastrophic to many systems affected. Here’s hoping they move that system up higher and further back.

[@truthseeker111]

I DARE someone to own this after warranty! 💰💸💰💸💰💸💰💸

[@computercrack]

No issue at least this base spec. Nothing much to worry about.

[@GTO33]

History has proven you wrong. Tesla on the other hand…

[@memertmemes2586]

Every piece of plastic on the cooling system will need replacing before it's even 10 years old. Junk.

[@truthseeker111]

@@computercrack cracks what u smokin’

[@truthseeker111]

@@GTO33 history and personal experience proves me correct. U even own a Porsche Brah?

[@iowa_don]

5:25 - Perhaps the designer has stock in a fitting/hose/pump company??

[@rogerstarkey5390]

PVC for the win!

[@Tschacki_Quacki]

That's closer to the truth about legacy automakers than we wish...

[@rogerstarkey5390]

I figured it out. . They built a test rig on the bench, someone said "That would actually fit IN the car!" And a beancounter heard them!

[@abraxastulammo9940]

It is like the exhaust piping out of the ICE motor, carefully bended and twisted to match the lengths 😅

[@FutureSystem738]

OMG, I thought the Mach E was bad. Even calling it a bowl of spaghetti is being much too nice.

[@Clark-Mills]

Good team, yes I see the likeness! Really appreciate the pop-up notes onscreen too! Thank you.

[@bwalker4194]

This thing is the epitome of a “warranty car”.

[@olivierleduc7305]

wow, thanks for showing us this!

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@GoCoyote]

That cooling system looks to be in a very bad part of the car in terms of possible damage from road hazards.

[@mking9446I]

Designed to fail

[@crazydrifter13]

That would be €10,000 Sir

[@CaneBTC]

I assume they have removed a underbody pan

[@andreatanzi3191]

The best Tay-Tech video I have seen yet !! Thanks

[@2qwik4u]

I like the use of an antenna (I'm sure they're lying around) as a pointing device.

[@danapeck5382]

Thanks! Interesting to see the design considerations, all the best

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching!

[@kylekleman]

The value of giga castings really make sense when you look at the bottom of the Porsche. So much opportunity to eliminate parts, suppliers and labor. Additionally, think of all the engineers required to design hundreds of those parts! That’s the hidden cost that is difficult to capture on a BOM comparison analysis.

[@austinpowers1999]

The excitement on the bowl of spaghetti is overwhelming my natural senses.

[@computercrack]

No it doesnt make sense at all from volume perspective. The Taycan was planned and still is a low volume car (40k or sk sold a year, planned with maybe 20k) so no extremely expensive tools wouldnt have worked cost wise.

[@kylekleman]

@@computercrack it’s a system level change. It probably wouldn’t make sense just for the Taycan. But if you have the machines to produce multiple cars, I see no reason why the capital cost for two large die castings would be more than the hundreds of aluminum extrusions, stampings and welding equipment. Those are not cheap.

[@lennyvalentin6485]

Porsches are low volume, high cost vehicles - the case for a gigacasting which trades some overall strength/weight efficiency for a major reduction in cost and increase in speed of manufacturing doesn't make as much sense as for a high volume, lower cost vehicle. It would be more beneficial for an expensive sports car type vehicle to have a multitude of bespoke parts to give exactly the strength/stiffness/weight desired, even if it means more efforts required to assemble during manufacture.

[@hugegamer5988]

Heck yea, that way when you get some damage you have to replace half the frame and completely disassemble the vehicle turning a 2k repair into a 40k repair. Save on production, screw em on repair. I love it.

[@__--JY-Moe--__]

gona tell those pipes 2 take the staircase! a bunch of interesting aspects in engineering.. just kidd'n.... crazy great video guy's!! thanks so much! super job!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

This just reminded me.... I need to do some plumbing over the weekend.

[@Timeless_Essence]

i was WAITING for a teardown of the taycan! I was really thinking what to choose between this and the model s. thank u guys for this!

[@FutureSystem738]

Simple. Are you a total masochist? If so, buy the Porsche.

[@Timeless_Essence]

@@FutureSystem738 u see those hoses? That screams coolant leak. Checking repairbility is very important. U don't want headaches, regardless of brand.

[@FutureSystem738]

@@Timeless_Essence I have a friend with a fairly new ICE Porsche. His reliability and maintenance costs are absolutely horrific. He loves my Tesla Model 3P, and is very envious- says his next car will DEFINITELY be a Tesla. He’s about to order a YP any day now. We can’t get the S & X downunder 🇦🇺 any more 😢 This electric Porsche seems very little better than it’s ICE brethren. It looks as though it’s been cobbled together from the parts bin.

[@radicalrick9587]

*That Bowl of Spaghetti looks like it was designed to get hit by road hazards and spring a leak thus forcing you to bring it into the dealer so they can charge you $$$$$.*

[@capn_shawn]

EV People: "I don't have to worry about all those traditional car problems like water leaks" EV Manufacturer: "Lets add 50X the amount of water connections that a regular car has"

[@TheReal_JG]

*ICE* Manufacturer when manufacturing EVs.

[@EVGizmo]

Thanks for explaining this guys

[@linuxxr]

$10,000 in plastic elbows with fiat wiring connectors at road level . i wish the ceo's would let the engineers engineer .

[@computercrack]

if it works it aint stupid. do you think little Children work at Porsche?

[@linuxxr]

no, i think ceo's have the engineers Hamstrung to the point their own innovation comes to a standstill because ceos want things to break,,, like those 10,000 dollar plastic elbows right there in the perfect spot to be broken , Children would expect better of a company@@computercrack

[@stephengneri2136]

Base • Electric From $90,900 4S • Electric From $111,700 GTS • Electric $139,300 Turbo • Electric $160,800 maybe this spaghetti is the gift with purchase.....

[@size1985]

The hose chaos immediately reminded me of the Porsche 944 Turbo! One of the first production cars with a turbocharger and a similar mess under the hood. It was also Porsche's first car of that kind, analogous to the Taycan.

[@nononsenseBennett]

This first generation Taycan could be a nightmare to source parts in the future!

[@markplott4820]

why ? parts are Sourced from ICE Panamara.

[@markjonz]

Looks like it was cobbled together from existing parts. A lot of parts

[@EricP36]

Yes! Thanks guys.

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@abraxastulammo9940]

It is called "the snake's nest" ☝️

[@mcopanzan]

Shocking how much structural bonding Porsche is using on the body, where larger presses & extrusions would save weight and complexity in assembley.

[@deadmanwalking6342]

Plumbers delight!

[@EugeneShamshurin]

39% denser 😂. That rear end reminds of a first version of model 3's rear. I can't believe Porsche is getting away with such a hodgepodge

[@CuNimb]

Kevin is so polite! I love how he says "there is room for more integration in the future"!

[@LuizStocklerHenrique]

"Honey, I *think* I scraped the front of the Porsche today when I dropped off Madeline Kaitlyn and Hannah: there is s strange smell now and something is dripping in the garage can you go see?"

[@iansanderson]

that look Armin gave when Kevin said “Porsh” 😂

[@markjonz]

This one’s a Porker

[@ernestkumeh3800]

What is the white precipitate/residue that splatter the under belly of the car? Is it coolant?

[@KevinGuanziroli]

I know it's very very unlikely, but it would be amazing to see Munro Live look and as a bigger dream dismantle a Rimac Nevera. Rimac now helping and being part of a lot of other cars manufacturer, seeing how they do would stuff would be amazing. Maybe Jay Leno could let you look at his ? ;)

[@respekted]

In my opinion, the tunnel brace with the casting and four bolts shown at 13:40 is made to keep the tunnel sheet metal from flexing too much. The top pin is able to slide into the opening in the casting at the top. This is a Porsche so they probably did the FEA and spent 1M on that assembly.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

The girls want to know, are Munro doing a calender to pay for the CT teardown? 😉

[@martingardens]

I'll pass on seeing Sandy in bathing trunks.

[@aayotechnology]

@@martingardensbut I WOULD pay to NOT see it

[@artmchugh5644]

Wow !!!! My 1964 Chevy impala SS had a big ass steering wheel with no air bags, a lap belt only and a non padded steel dash !!!! 😊😊😊 God i loved that car !!!! So simple and so cool 😢😢😢😢

[@simson4t]

I've never seen so much major league automotive engineers in the comment section lol.

[@cengeb]

How many hose clamps can be used in one area, holy moly, that is bizarre...

[@b286guy]

Jordan has really bulked up 💪🏻

[@jrb_sland]

He {& his wife} might consider implementing some version of the keto [high fat, low carb] diet - he's got the beginning of a classical spare tire which over time may result in premature death. Stop all-day eating/drinking 'fast' food snacks & soft drinks. Eat only when hungry, drink only when thirsty. Your body will tell you what it needs if only you'll take the time to listen.

[@capslock9031]

Kevin "Itself" Hardy is getting really good at these kinds of presentations. The whole team has come such a long way as content creators. Also, what's Armin's favorite protein?

[@Harrythehun]

Trenbelone sandwich?

[@h57s]

Itself!

[@619duke]

Itself is a stop word in the Munro Live vocabulary 😂

[@kevinrey9427]

To summarize, “essentially” 😂. Love the video, that word may have been a tad overused ❤

[@ligius3]

I think either Rimac or Koenigsegg have a 2-speed gearbox. About the design choices - a lot of opportunities left on the table, especially with the excessive use of mixed fasteners and brackets.

[@mrmawson2438]

Cheers guys

[@MunroLive]

Cheers

[@CeoofAlcorp]

Hey, just a correction at around 19:30 I believe the Audi RS E-tron gt has 2 speed Gearbox for the EDM but to my knowledge it is the only other EV that does this (besides the Taycan in mentioned in the video)

[@saff226]

The first couple of Tesla roadsters have a two speed gear box and also the rimac C2

[@stephen8623]

$500 rims selling for $5,000 ???

[@kennyg1358]

a fool and his money are easily parted.

[@Lifecoach7Ra]

Engineering wise is only a Potemkin village at my opinion. You definitely see that it’s no Tesla!

[@KennethCherisol]

Everyone on youtubes an expert now

[@johnlabernik4599]

Please continue using the physical and laser pointers!

[@Surestick88]

What's strange to me is there are companies converting ICE vehicles to electric (I'm thinking Electric Classic Cars here on KZbin) that seem to do a much cleaner build than this. I get that there are issues like collision safety that aren't even considered in EV conversions but i doubt that collection of valves, especially down by the front where they're vulnerable to even a minor collision with a curb when parking, wouldn't fly.

[@AutoAbsolute]

I’m waiting for the Taycan Mk2 before i seriously consider buying a Porsche ev.

[@MarcFireHart]

Hi Team, you may want to explain what SORV is?

[@markjonz]

I think you gave the car an easy ride. It’s difficult to believe the transmission tunnel is for performance and rigidity, and more likely a hang over from the Paramera platform. Also the parts bin thermal system, and two speed gearbox to get the performance from their motor give the game away. It’s a nice prototype but have to wait for the real version. Maybe the new 718 will be better.

[@theandersonfamily4245]

Dogs dinner! Sack the design engineers!

[@MANdoesminecraft]

omg my comment got a shoutout lmao

[@davidr3246]

I was fooled! I thought Jordan got taller suddenly! 😂

[@MunroLive]

Lol

[@aeromtb2468]

their attempt at octovalve

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"Octovalve, Scrapheap Challenge version" . (That's "Junkyard wars" for the US)

[@Holeyguagaamoley]

This car encapsulates all that is wrong with German response to Tesla, but it’s amazing what advertising can do.

[@computercrack]

What's wrong? Porsche has much better build quality, more options to choose from, much better ride quality and driving performance (like going around corners), a working brake system and much more. Tesla does provide a good experience for less money. that's fine but clearly not the best engineering

[@Holeyguagaamoley]

Err.. weight size efficiency they did a good job of trying to hide the bulk but this car is not better built it is a sad reflection of business as usual in Germany. They need to get with it before the Koreans and Chinese eat their lunch.

[@computercrack]

@@Holeyguagaamoley lol

[@Holeyguagaamoley]

Lol? Well it’s right there in front of you.

[@computercrack]

@@Holeyguagaamoley choosing a design you dont understand the reasons for doesnt mean it's got bad build quality. quite the opposite. it's very solid and has been put to millions of miles of hard test driving before getting released to the customers.

[@stprGG]

Really looking forward to next years Macan and Audi Q6 on their new PPE platform.

[@userscott]

Why? They’ll be shit just like all the other German EVs. 😂

[@mauricejud6877]

Compliments to the fact that you are not intimidated by a (historic) brand like this 👌 I am looking forward to Porsches progress in the al new E-Macan comming soon !

[@markplott4820]

Porsche , no longer RELEVANT in 2023 , less LESS than Model X.

[@markplott4820]

MUNRO - at end of the day , the Taycan is an Irrelevant ICE based EV w/ a Vibrator sized battery. its not an Effective vehicle SALES wise.

[@brunoheggli2888]

Wow please talk more about Porsche!I cant get enough of it!

[@markplott4820]

Ummmm, Porsche is IRRELEVANT in 2023. not even a Contender.......lol.

[@rp9674]

Nice car

[@GTO33]

@@markplott4820really? On what planet? Porsche makes som of the greatest drivers cars in the World , and has huge margins on them…

[@markplott4820]

@@GTO33 - the STOCK Tesla model S is a Better TRACK car than any BASE model Porsche.

[@GTO33]

@@markplott4820 That must be the stupidest comment in KZbins 20year history.

[@voidthewarranty1429]

"Interesting and unique" is a polite way of saying it's a overly complicated mess.

[@einherjarspb]

Mind-boggling complex structures of this Taycan make my fingers intertwine like that "spaghetti bowl"! Wonder what we'd see if something like Koenigsegg Gemera would be on that hoist! But Christian von Koenigsegg won't ever let us, I guess, hehe. 🤣😂🤣😆

[@donswier]

👍All the excitement over Gemera, Ramcharger & Edison must make the teams behind the departed Volt & i3 REx feel smug.

[@eugeneeugene3313]

Armin is in good shape. How much benchpress?:)

[@dougk5456]

Does Rube Goldberg work for Porsche??

[@mrmawson2438]

Afternoon guys

[@saber0089]

I was the lead engineer for this "bowl of spaghetti" and my father owns a hose and clamp shop. These two facts are unrelated.

[@KyleHubb]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@mintyfreshness78]

that spaghetti monster looks like those sentry bots that attacked neos ship in the matrix.

[@7443jan]

Do we see the quality reflected in the price?

[@martinhicks6020]

Surely the more parts and complexity, the less likelihood of reliability?

[@bigusdallastexamas5740]

That mess looked like a DIY yard sprinkler install, where they didn't have the right parts and just kept going back to Home Depot.

[@xrpo.g6855]

What would be great is if they voiced their opinion when doing these reviews on how it compares to a Tesla model S. Which they believe is superior in build engineering and tech etc....

[@RickyLourenco]

true. these guys need to grow some balls and voice their true opinions. I really miss Sandy

[@ddally8851]

Essentially, there is a bowl of spaghetti underneath this EV itself.

[@joshuacampbell7710]

This is my kind of “reality” tv.

[@alib8396]

How much would this car cost used and out of warranty ?

[@badbeetle2942]

In ten years nobody will know how to repair this plumbing mess

[@mini2nut67]

Holy crap!!! Porsche must have hired some ex Ford Mustang engineers😁

[@turblolovert51r]

Whooo Kev!

[@firstbigbarney]

What is the train tunnell thru the center of the car, they need alot of engineering help...

[@mattiarizzi]

If we compare it to the Model S, with many people complaining water leaks, that “spaghetti bundle”, hidden and protected by a panel, looks a minor detail.😊

[@StephenRichey]

Ahhh... The "itself" guy!

[@charlesrovira5707]

By the time the rear motor was revealed, it was clear that this vehicle was a compromise thrown around a _kludge_ wrapped around an accretion of disparate components. No wonder a _Porsch-uh_ († Pronunciation matters,) costs so much. It's not so much designed as evolved by blind and deaf mechanics. Repairs must be hell to execute. †) *Sia* pronounces _Porsche_ correctly [ kzbin.info/www/bejne/manNp4eOpJ6Kja8si=tKOZEjggf-u913XE&t=48 ] 😉

[@machoopichoo2]

A bowl of spaghetti that is deadly, as well? ;^)

[@FireboatJim]

What ever happened to the K.I.S.S principle?