David Graeber: Should We Vote?

Anarchist anthropologist and academic David Graeber talks about the choices in the upcoming UK General Election
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[@alvisepernechele373]

I miss him so much

[@ModernConversations]

I like him actually, a lot. He wrote some really incredible books, full of really insightful and unusual ideas.

[@craigkelly8369]

Loved his book on debt. I still browse it every now and again. Its a shame that he is dead.

[@ModernConversations]

@@craigkelly8369 Utopia of Rules was funnier and blew my mind even more.

[@HerrBaton]

Don't vote for Labour, vote for Corbyn. He's not only important for UK, He's important for all the left across Europe, because he is currently the strongest truly leftist leader EU have seen for decades. To have Corbyn in power in UK would mean a great deal even for us slavs in the east. So please consider.

[@smhsophie]

rip in peace

[@gagansrai8137]

@@smhsophie hahah

[@ernststravoblofeld]

The trouble with votes is they are each all the same. The individual votes of people who understand the issues and care, are exactly equal to the individual votes of the overwhelming majority who just vote for their team, or who vote for people they personally like, or vote for the candidate whose commercials they saw last.

[@barefoofDr]

" If voting mattered they wouldn't let us do it. " Mark Twain

[@socdemigod]

Look at voter suppression efforts in the United States. Voting does matter especially on state and local levels.

[@minsapint8007]

No matter who you vote for you always end up electing a politician.

[@barefoofDr]

@@minsapint8007 Not if you vote for Trump ,Baby. Trump 2020

[@cretaceoussteve3527]

On a national level, there's a kernel of truth in both the argument that voting matters, and that it doesn't. I also think the closer you get to the local level, the more paying attention and participating in elections gives you representative power (depending on how local govt. officials are chosen in your country). The point should be that individual participation in elections has exactly the power that it has: 1 vote. But organized action of many people can change societies. I can only speak with some confidence about the US where I live, and there the essence of the system we have now is that it attempts to isolate people so that they either feel powerless, or fall in line with the established range of behavior and possibilities.

[@needlessoptions]

@@socdemigod I'm sure the front-end of the democracy in the US is functional, your vote is counted, the president-elect is chosen accordingly. However, it doesn't really matter if both establishment parties are taking donations from the same corporations, or, at the very least, the same industries to fund their campaigns.

[@petehowson]

Abstaining doesn't really mean very much in the unusual situation where a clear ideological difference exists between the parties. Ill be voting for the first time in a GE in June. I'm 35 yo.

[@staatsfeindlich9939]

When has participating in Bourgeois electoral politics ever changed anything? Didn't Emma Goldman comment once women's suffrage passed in the US, "We vote. What does that mean?"

[@Elmirgtr]

I think anarchists can be sometimes dogmatic when it comes to this. As an anarchist, I don't think voting is redundant. Anarchists still believe in democracy, although we are aware that it's usually hijacked in real life. That means participating in an election for anarchists should be no-brainer, if it will clearly make a difference, while keeping our usual activities in the streets, schools, homeless shelters and elsewhere.

[@joeblow1942]

I am an anarchist and I don't believe in the mob rule of democracy.

[@KratomFlavoredAdidas]

@@joeblow1942 what system is better than democracy?

[@mitchclark1532]

@@joeblow1942 What do you believe in? Dictatorship? Oligarchy?

[@joeblow1942]

@@mitchclark1532 I believe any institution with a monopoly on the initiation of violence is immoral. Therefore the existence of the state is immoral.

[@joeblow1942]

@@KratomFlavoredAdidas How can you justify that a typically dumbed down majority can vote away the rights of the minority?

[@haer6481]

She (T.M.) can read a speech very well👏👏 Poor UK😫😫 They deserve the gorvernment (B.J.) they voted for🤷‍♂️

[@Xanaklusmos]

WRT his comment on dereg paradoxically increasing bureaucracy, I think I can actually confirm that from experience. I’m a bureaucrat precisely because my state agency outsources certain labor, so even though I’m an engineer I spend my of my time facilitating that outsourcing with contract management instead of doing any engineering myself. This is at an entry level state position. My agency goes though man-hour after man-hour of regulating this outsourcing: it requires lawyers, contract specialists, procurement teams, and inter-divisional programs and record keeping to maintain the interface between public and private sector. This doesn’t cover actual regulatory agencies, but I believe his iron law of liberalism does conform to my personal, professional experience. As an anarchist by ideal, and engineer by education, and a bureaucrat by circumstance, I suspect it’s actually the nationalization of industry that minimizes “red tape” and privatization that feeds it by necessitating a more robust, complex, and contrived state apparatus.

[@theedrinkendgutmensch4690]

A friend of mine explained this to me in simple terms. Refuse to go with the hype. But do vote.

[@DavidByrne85]

We've got the most progressive labour leader in many decades. Vote for him, for goodness sake.

[@uttaradit2]

@@connor-bj6ku democratic centralism comrade

[@Unprotected1232]

PayPal is the worst. They quite literally have a bureaucrat bot followed up by a lot of back and forth with various customer support staff.

[@Glickan]

This is sooo true. Thanks David, voting is a corrupt action

[@jmgonzales7701]

what should we do

[@kulturfreund6631]

I‘m missing a bit of differentiation of the types of deregulation. I like to see regulations were public interest has a benefit from it. He kind of never makes this point, also not in other interviews.

[@dabay200]

Graeber is very interesting

[@PlasmaBurns]

When 'governments' end with "INC", voting is giving consent to be ruled.

[@PetersonSilva]

Even when they don't, technically.

[@gking407]

If not voting leads to some abyssmal politicians taking power and making life worse for everything on the planet, does this set the conditions for people joining a movement and demanding change? Or does abstaining result in greater harm?

[@user-gz4ve8mw9l]

They are all criminals whom work for the corporate oligarchs. Corrupt person A versus corrupt person B. The voting is a sham its all a selection by the ruling elites. To give you the delusion of some semblance of 'freedom'. Its cult wars and all the cults are part of the same whole larger cult.

[@scenFor109]

The question for anarchists is, "Should people be registered to vote?" Because it is in registration that one gives consent to be under the governance of the sovereign state's office, no matter the officer voted for. #EndGlobalApartheid

[@bladdnun3016]

It might be interpreted as such by whomever, but why would you give a fuck?

[@mechabits197]

i'll Vote when one option is "None of the Above"

[@50_Pence]

I just found out he's dead. Sucks. His vids are really interesting

[@bladdnun3016]

Wait till you read his books :)

[@50_Pence]

@@bladdnun3016 what one do you recommend?

[@bladdnun3016]

@@50_Pence Debt is superb, really one of the most important books if you care at all about relationships between human beings and the social and economic structures that result. It's surprising and eye-opening and covers a lot of ground. Bullshit Jobs is about a very important topic that nobody seemed to really be aware of. It's definitely easier to read and very interesting as well. It doesn't feel quite as rigorous, probably because it's intended for a wider audience.

[@50_Pence]

@@bladdnun3016 saw a docu on bs jobs. Will check the book. Thanks

[@bladdnun3016]

@@50_Pence You're welcome :)

[@ModernConversations]

I think it's all marketing.

[@antifasarkeesian1467]

UUUHM!!!

[@Yourismouter]

Vote Corbyn, in Scotland vote for the SNP, and get a shit load of Greens in parliament and local to. but purge yourself of New Labor, Tories, and Lib-Dems.

[@marcocardia3960]

It´s a shame that even nazis vote for any republican but a lot of left wing people think voting is useless or bad, you never see right wingers stop voting, they keep doing it, blue states turned red, but some left wing people love the excuse to not vote by saying they are in a red state, I really like anarchist thought but I hates that way of thinking that just fells like leading a person to live naked in a dirt house wille the world burns and nazis kill everyone and the person is sitting in the corner and just thinks "At least I didn´t participate in the corrupt system before the nazis gain power"

[@SDG.12]

yes. voting out fascism should be an imperative for the left.

[@TheLinuxYes]

@paul w thank you. H OC was confused.

[@joeblow1942]

Is the gun pointing at your skull to enforce socialism any less lethal than the gun used to enforce fascism? No. Fascism, socialism, progressivism are all variants of AUTHORITARIANISM.

[@TheLinuxYes]

@@joeblow1942 run amuck capitalism, if left unchecked by Democratic Institutions, devolves into Fascism over time.

[@joeblow1942]

@@TheLinuxYes Please explain how two or more humans peacefully and voluntarily engaged in the exchange of goods and/or services devolves into fascism.

[@TheLinuxYes]

@@joeblow1942 over time, those two innocent, loving, wonderful captitalists gather more and more wealth and soon, they begin to have eyes on influencing Laws so they start lobbying Legislators in DC to get the laws they want. with enought money they get exactly that since congresspeople need money to get reelected. then, once our wonderful used car salesmen capitalists get enough influence in our government, they, in the pursuit of more money and power, begin to wedge themselves between the People and their elected representatives. THAT is how Fascism is born. now go do your homework, its almost 8 oclock.

[@davidlawrence4467]

So he lectures other people on whom they should vote for (and I agree with him by the way), but doesn't vote himself. (From 1:55 he just gets silly.) Remember Eldridge Cleaver's words. "You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem."

[@davidgraeber5046]

Eldridge Cleaver ended up becoming a conservative Republican.

[@888Caz]

Not an EU CITIZEN. Not a UNITED KINGDOM CITIZEN. No contract, no consent. With both these corporations. I remain a Brit, born and bred in Britain.

[@stfnba]

Yes, don't worry, everything is fine, go back to your bottle now.

[@charleswarren1901]

What a nimrod. What a maroon.

[@bladdnun3016]

Looking at your face, that seems about right.

[@charleswarren1901]

@@bladdnun3016 Look at my face all you want.