ESPRESSO ANATOMY - The Slayer Shot

[@GiraldoJenkins]

When I first got my lever machine these were the shots I was most enjoying. I then found a lot of material that said this was “wrong” and my shots should be taking 25 seconds instead of the 45 I was pulling. It taught me a lesson, there’s no right or wrong, as long as it tastes good :)

[@Sprometheus]

Exactly, don’t let people tell you what is right or tastes best. That’s all subjective

[@Nevermindthrbrewmethod]

I pulled a 60 second shot dialling in a new bag of Ethiopian, it was really quite delicious.

[@worldisafrick]

Same experience with levers here. It takes nearly 30sec to wet the puck at boiler pressure, not sure how anyone manages to do it any quicker and get any volume

[@dustinsanford6045]

This makes me happy. I ran a cafe in college, 2014-2018, and was trained to pull the slayer shot by our local roaster Brown Coffee co. Brown used a slayer but we had a Strada MP and both worked fine like you stated. My top espresso shots came from this style. #1 being a washed Ethiopian that was like sparkling rose water that finished with velvety sweet Meyer lemon. Dear Lord, the heavens parted that day. Pro: We wasted significantly less coffee! Instead of changing the grind size, and having to purge etc, we just adjusted the preinfuse time! If the shot was too acidic we would preinfuse longer, too bitter preinfuse less time. If shots were running really long we would "flash" the coffee, full on and full off quickly, then proceed with the preinfuse time. Coffees seemed so much more full and complex. Con: If you weren't tasting the coffee frequently it was hard to tell purely based off time if it tasted like crap. It was also more difficult to train people this way. Another con was shot times were longer. The sweet spot for the coffees we used was 45-55 sec instead of 25-32.

[@enshongmiranda]

2:36 IMO the biggest difference between the Slayer and other flow profiling machines is the Slayer restricts the flow but still pushes water to the puck at 9bar unlike the GS3 and other machines utilizing low pressure for low flow. You can see it in how the pressure while extracting increases on a Slayer machine during pre-brew up to near 9bar then moving the paddle to full flow. That is not what happened when you were brewing that even at full saturation 5:53, the water pressure doesn't even go beyond 2bar. I would bet that if you measure the flow rate of the water coming out of the grouphead, it will be higher than the 1.5-2g/s rate Slayer shots are usually made with. The Slayer machine saturates the puck at a low water flow at constant pressure while the method shown here saturates the puck by dumping more water with less pressure. Seems similar but the difference is the Slayer forces the trickle of water through the coffee with 9bar pressure while the method here (which is just normal extended pre-infusion) waits for the coffee puck to absorb more water at a gentler pressure which leads to just longer contact time between water and the top of the puck.

[@ElecBrane]

My main problem with the slayer shot is uneven extraction through the puck. If you preinfuse with low flow or pressure and ramp up with first drops, the top of the puck will have more contact time than the bottom. Every shot I had was sour and bitter. For me it makes more sense to flush the puck and bloom it for ~30s. That will produce more even extraction through the puck.

[@Sprometheus]

That’s one school of thought, but in my experience I wouldn’t consider it an issue. Contact time in general has become less of a issue for me when it comes to extraction. I’ve had 15 second shots with 22% yield and 60 second shots with 19% yield and both bring a unique quality to the cup. In terms of blooming that is also something worth exploring in a future video though.

[@NANA-gy7yx]

Using the Bianca style flow control and an example, by flush the puck you mean open at full pressure and the close the paddle for 30sec, the open it all the way ?

[@ElecBrane]

@@NANA-gy7yx open with max flow to flush the puck, close with first drop, wait for 30s, then pull the shot til your desired ratio

[@HuibNederhof]

I get fantastic shots on my Nurri Lever machine with these blooming shots. I start the pre-infusion with 6 bar for 5-8 seconds. I turn off the pump and then slowly reduce the pressure to 2 or 3 bar. Once I get 1.5 grams in my cup which can sometimes take 60 seconds, I release the lever which gives me 10 bar on the puck and then my shot takes about 30 seconds to get about 40 grams into my cup. I use very light coffee and get very sweet coffee with this style. 6bar pre-infusion works much better then 2 bar pre infusion

[@davidfuller581]

You said Raining Blood shot and all I could think was "RAINING BLOOD! FROM A CAFFEINATED SKY!"

[@Sprometheus]

Haha sounds like a new version of the Slayer song

[@jaytrent62]

“Raining Blood” is good name for a metal band

[@Johnnie895]

Let's take a moment to appreciate this man's great taste in coffee and music \m/ Great video Sprometeus!

[@Dejan_23Unlimited]

“Slayer Single One” Every single day in my home. 🙏🏻 Love my Slayer, one if not the best Espresso ☕️

[@bobhopeandnohope300]

I've been playing with longer pre infusion with my flair, first couple of pulls weren't much different but then when I went what I thought was too long it produced some of the best shots I've had from the machine.

[@Sprometheus]

For sure, it’ll take some testing and I wasn’t sure on the length of time either but it pulled out some great espresso!

[@AlanKlughammer]

I think I have been making a "slayer shot" on my flair for some time. I just did not realize it had an official name.

[@Sprometheus]

@@AlanKlughammer haha yeah they’ve sort of co-opted the style with the name but I’m sure it’s been around longer than them.

[@murraythebaker]

@@AlanKlughammer me too

[@Caffeine.And.Carvings]

With my flair pro 2 I'm scratching on 40-50sec preinfusion and 20-30sec pull times. Soooo tasty

[@wearypirate9882]

I own a Lelit Elizabeth which has some unique preinfusion settings: It let's you program different durations and types of preinfusion. For lighter roasts, I did use a slightly pressured infusion, which is made possible by letting the steam boiler pressure go into the brew head. But I never tried a preinfusion as long as you describe in your video. For medium to dark roasts, I prefer an "unpressured" infusion with a longer duration: 14-20 seconds worked fine so far, depending on the coffee. I cannot say that I am experienced enough to taste big differences between those and traditional shots, but the preinfusion really helps with preventing channeling. Also, it gives me enough time to grab milk from the fridge and fill it into the pitcher. And to be perfectly honest: It simply fun to experiment with different variables when it comes to espresso making. I am very happy with my Lelit.

[@azzarooni8532]

full view Slayer shot was absolutely mint 👌 so satisfying

[@anti1337speak]

Suddenly, this explains why I keep hearing lever machine shots are "Slayer-esque." I usually do a 10 second preinfusion, ramp up the pressure slightly to get the puck fully saturated, then pull with full pressure on my LP Europiccola. Usually takes about 45 seconds to hit a 1:2 ratio.

[@Sprometheus]

That sounds Slayer-esque indeed. Lever machines are a totally unique beast too, I need to get one soon to play with.

[@benmulleady7266]

Was just about to say I'd like to see some lever shots. Picking up an acs evo leva on Sunday myself 👌👍

[@cheekster777]

Thank you my friend. Found this super interesting. I need to try a Slayer shot for myself… Have yourself a great weekend.

[@Sprometheus]

Of course! Thanks for watching, have a great weekend and happy brewing!

[@baustard]

I hit the Like button moments after the "Reign in Blood" line

[@Sprometheus]

A classic from Slayer!

[@Covenant-R]

Having a Breville Dual Boiler modded for needle valve flow control, aka the slayer mod, I do vary different types of slayer shots all the time. Preinfusion times, or manual, as well as pressure. And it definitely helps several coffee's. Just having the needle valve so you can do a declining profile, aka lower the max possible flow, so you can keep a constant flow into the cup as the resistance of the puck erodes as the shot progresses seems to be forgiving against many coffee. I can't remember the last time I had a shot that wasn't good enough to drink.

[@Sprometheus]

I’m with you, I feel like the Slayer shot is a bit of a cheat code. I haven’t had one that was undrinkable yet, even with some wild coffees. Lately I’ve been sort of palate fatigued on nattys and anaerobics but this shot has reignited my interest in them.

[@dirkl216]

The mod has opened up a new world for me when it comes to resistant roasts and also older beans that I would normally label as “not fresh”.

[@Nevermindthrbrewmethod]

I've been pulling a shot we've nicknamed the lazy boy, slow flow rate around 2.6ml/s, pressure ramps up to around 3 bar in 10 seconds shortly followed by first drip, pressure then ramps to between 5 and 7 bar, leave the flow rate alone and stop at desired yield around 40-50 seconds. Ethiopians are sweet and complex so well worth trying.

[@TINGSTARR]

Revisiting this one in September 2023 - I’m pulling the Slayer shot on my Flair 58. Getting good pulls. Thanks again for this one, Spro!

[@vancitycanucks]

Thanks!

[@Sprometheus]

Of course! Gotta love that perfect timing and thank you for the Super Thanks!

[@bacca71]

Well presented. Will look forward to deeper dives on this topic in future episodes. Thanks!

[@Sprometheus]

Thanks for watching and the kind words Aj.

[@XeonX__ASMR__METAL-experiments]

3:24 Slayer recommends... OK then!

[@ihavenospacebar231]

With slayer shots as far as grinding finer, you can use a grind that is so fine that it would simply choke on a traditional 9 bar shot, use a 30 second pre-infusion, then ramp up, and ramp down. This will give you a totally different tasting shot. Another thing they allow you to do is remove excess brightness from super light roasted coffee.

[@chrisprefontaine5145]

Exactly

[@wisruteb]

It’s the very reason I bought my Slayer One Group, having experimented with longer pre-infusion time for a long while with the Breville Dual Boiler. It works well (for me, at least) with lighter roast as you said, given that you own a robust grinder to grind fine enough. I typically drink espresso and Americano but I don’t use a slayer shot for blended coffee roast, or for darker roast.

[@Dejan_23Unlimited]

Slayer no discussion, best ever. Love my Slayer ☕️

[@pitstopcoffeeco]

that looks like a fancy way of saying turbo shot with extended pre infusion. think of pre infusion time not really effecting shot time. so it's still around a 18-20 second shot time. but the long pre infusion is requiring you to grind much finer than normal. to bump extraction, you may want to even extend pre infusion even more my possibly 5-10 seconds (don't worry about over extracting the top of the bed), grind finer, and extend the full pressure shot time. also using lower bars around 7.5 works extremely well for me. i have been experimenting with low flow 2bar pre infusion for the past few years. It has allowed me to pul even the lightest of roasts in espresso with ease. thanks for bringing up this major feature of modern machines!

[@pitstopcoffeeco]

**sorry, 15-18 second full bar shot time

[@carbon5261]

How do you feel about John Buckman's take that a Slayer shot actually gets you an uneven extraction because the top and bottom of the puck spend such different amounts of time in contact with water? Is uneven always a bad thing, even when you avoid channels? I think the Blooming Espresso has the best of both worlds. Cheers!

[@Sprometheus]

I think theoretically he’s right, but like you said I don’t necessarily believe that all uneven extractions are equal. Top to bottom vs a channel or two are very different beasts. I think we (coffee nerds) get wrapped up in the theoretical and forget what really matters is what’s in the cup, and that is also very subjective.

[@micksquires]

After owning both GS3 and Slayer simultaneously, for some reason the Slayer would always let me grind finer. I didnt like how the GS3 would spew all that excess water into the drip tray causing the brew boiler temp to drop dramatically mid shot, sometimes by around 3 degresss C depending on how long the pre-infusion would run. I did find the Slayer shots had less body but did taste better in my opinion.

[@3esa3]

I have the same problem the water flows out quickly I sold it and bought a new slayer one group

[@jamesb.ofdesertdistrict567]

Wonder to what extent you could do this on a Flair 58…

[@alexlazaridisf.7276]

This ventures into what some of us in Vancouver Canada call the "Harken" shot, after Harken Cafe. Sadly the cafe has recently closed. But they were pulling shots for 90 seconds or longer and they were delicious. I have flow control at home and have pulled shots up to 2 minutes (including long pre-wetting times). As Prometheus says, for the right type of bean you can get great flavour with the long slow shots.

[@roblucchetti2993]

I'm a big fan of 6 bar shots with honey/natural process coffees

[@Mark_Wood]

i'm confused. You talk about flow/pressure profiling, but in your demonstration pull I only see the long preinfusin and then the bump up to 9 bars. what was going on with the flow paddle at that time? Is it constant? scaled? could you do the same thing just with finer grind and the long preinfusion?

[@lgxiii]

Having a Slayer at home, I pull 100% of my shots with Slayer shot technique. It’s tasting definitively better than standard shots. I wait to move the paddle until 2g in the cup. Be aware the Slayer shot is a flow controlled shot. The preinfusion makes the pressure in the group head slowly climb from 0 to maximum pressure. Mine is set at 6.5 bar maximum pressure. This also makes the shots sweeter.

[@Dejan_23Unlimited]

Great, I still didn’t try 2sec. Usually for me is 1gr and than full 9 bars

[@lgxiii]

@@Dejan_23Unlimited It's worth a try! I was used to wait for the first drop in the cup to move to max pressure. Give it a try, you may adopt it!

[@Dejan_23Unlimited]

@@lgxiii You described, exactly what I am doing right now. Will give a try tomorrow morning, thx.

[@Dejan_23Unlimited]

@@lgxiii Thank you, I did try this morning and it’s much much better waiting 2 sec. Thanks again for the advice and enjoy Slayer ☕️

[@lgxiii]

@@Dejan_23Unlimited your welcome but I have no merit. Should you visit Slayer channel to find explanation on this topic, and some others.

[@GustavoSanchez64]

I pull really long shots on my lever machine (Vesuvius EVO Leva) which tradition would say it's wrong but it's been hard to get a bad shot with light roasts. I am basically doing 2 bar set preinfusion until first drips register on scale and then pull the lever and since it's a dual spring it starts the shot at 10bar and tapers down to 6.5 bar by the end of the shot. Preinfusion can take up to 20 secs with another 30 pulling the shot for a total of 50-60 second shots sometimes.

[@HeyDrianTV]

Maybe it's the South of Heaven shot? LOL 😆 I got the "Raining Blood shot" reference. Instant Like! 👍

[@Sprometheus]

Haha thanks for watching and liking Mike

[@TomatePasFraiche]

0:23 hehe yeah I’ll call it that, and now I have even more reason to listen to the song while brewing my morning espresso 😂

[@Sprometheus]

Haha I knew someone would get it

[@TomatePasFraiche]

@@Sprometheus I loved it. Feels good to be part of the « Metalhead but need the delicateness of a perfectly brewed Papa New Guinea medium roast espresso every morning » club.

[@grim_magnus]

I'm 25 seconds in and already happy that you made a reference to Slayer the band.

[@GrantMcWilliams]

Soooo, you could do this with a Cafelat Robot or other lever machine what allows you control over pressure from beginning to end right?

[@finder2267]

My usual go-to standard pull is bringing the machine to line pressure = 10-30sec depending on the roast and grind and ending at 50-60sec. I would like to try some low-pressure pulls.

[@Sprometheus]

So are you running a full line pressure shot? Or do you ramp up at 30 seconds?

[@finder2267]

@@Sprometheus Ramp up after PI/bloom. line pressure (on the GS3) the point where water just starts flowing. I mark where this point (for lack of a better solution) with a little line of painter's tape. After PI/bloom you can do a 3,6,9 or 3,9 etc. it just depends on the roast and desired results.

[@vancitycanucks]

Omg. You read my mind on doing this shot on a GS3. Thank you man!

[@edipisreks5535]

This is one of my go-tos with my Flair58. Definitely a good profile for light roasts, and fairly easily done with a lever machine.

[@Sprometheus]

Absolutely, definitely a go to with manual machines as well. It’s just next level on a powered machine with less temp loss.

[@eyadlabib6700]

It seems that the Faema E72 has tremendous control over blooming and pre infusion, which they seem to define as two separate stages.

[@SiamakMokhtari]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I didn't figure it out. Is Slayer shot (profile) suitable for medium (medium-dark) roast coffee? Is the acidity balanced?

[@HeenDi]

Definitely need to establish the "reign in blood"-shot 😎🤘🏻

[@Sprometheus]

The question is, what shot fits that title the best?

[@bendallas5639]

Great first up video with the GS3. It would be great if you could work through a bunch of flow/pressure profile recipes, just like this one, but not forgetting us medium/dark roast drinkers. Im yet to appreciate any bag of light roasted battery acid. Keep up the good work...

[@Sprometheus]

Yeah I generally go for mediums most often, but I do want to toy around with some dark coffees in the near future.

[@bendallas5639]

I've tried all the common profiles on my e61 with FC and the simple decline seems to work best for me, but I have recently dropped the OPV to 7bar and I feel that's helped take a fair bit of harshness out.

[@MaakBow]

"battery acid" lol...Even the sweet light single origin roasts I don't really get it. I keep trying them at every "third wave" espresso cafe I find, thinking I've just been getting bad examples. If you like milk with your coffee maybe the excess acidity helps ...but for straight espresso it's not me

[@MrMilanina]

Thanks for the video. What are the cups you're using I like them? Are they all part of the set you have on Mini?

[@macehead]

A coffee channel with Slayer references. That's it.... it think society has peaked.

[@Sprometheus]

Haha pack it up Fam, we’re done here.

[@Viernescafe]

Unfortunately, I don't think you can pull a proper slayer shot with a GS3. If fact you're getting lower extractions as you said in the video.

[@WasimBarri]

Is a slayer shot on a slayer different to a slayer shot on a LM GS3 or San Remo YOU etc that does pressure profiling not flow. Does that needle valve make a difference?

[@matthewhoffman6868]

There is one thing missing in your account: grind distribution. I find that certain burrs yield quite high extraction without the need for long preinfusion or turbo shot techniques. In my case this became very notable when I changed the original Mythos burrs in my Kafatek Flat grinder to the newer, proprietary Shrunken Light-Medium burrs. If I were to use long-pre infusion or Turbo shot techniques, even with the lightest roasts, I would surely exceed the ~24% EY I normally obtain without them.

[@matthewhoffman6868]

Sorry - not Shrunken, but Shuriken (damned auto-correct)

[@supercanardo]

Curious about this one since I find lighter roast hard to extract in a satisfactory way. If I understand correctly, this one is 20s infusion and 25s pull, correct?

[@BillB33525]

Have a Quickmill Vetrano 2b with e-61 flow control. Been pulling scott rao 30 second blooming espresso shots. Using the E-61 flow valve the preinfusion is started to 2 bar and then shut off for 30 seconds. Then the valve is reopened to provide 9 bars of head pressure. 1:2 shots come out real smooth. The young PREFONTAINE bros [Fratello Coffee] had a YT vid with Joel pulling shots on the Slayer. It was an absolute scream. They tried all kinds of pressure varations with comentary on how the shot tasted. The vid is now gone. The fine grind and total saturation of the grinds are the secret to the Slayer taste profile.

[@askay2k]

One day, I accidentally pulled a shot at 60 seconds, 16 in, 35 out. I was not even gonna taste it thinking it surely will be yuck....but it turned out to be one of the best shots I have ever pulled.

[@leibhaft6926]

Really like your examinations on the Slayer shot, as my feelings on it pretty much match yours, running them on my Bianca, 95 % light roast single origins in all of its variations and processings. I ve recently combined the profile with a dropped pump pressure of 6 bars and kind of feel that the shots have won on the side of clarity, maintaining the characteristics of the Slayer shot you've described: beautifully complex and bright but balanced shots from the very beginning of the sip. works out with longer ratios as well. Have you tried that as well? Btw., love to see the MP on your Bar, looking forward to many new chapters of ESPRESSO ANATOMY to come :-)

[@nemanjastanimirov2684]

I am doing that as well on my synchronika. Extremely light roast pacamara has most balance if I reduce pressure out of 30g, and keep pulling it longer, 42-45g. Not quite as slayer though.

[@JackZtarrk]

I've got a question on the Bianca. Been doing Slayer shots for a while now but when I crank it fully open after pre-infusion the group head pressure goes to 12 bar while pump pressure is 9 bars. So I'm now slowly opening it to maintain the 9 bar at the group head. Is this the same experience you have? I also do a ramp down at the last 5-8 seconds which produces a bit more clarity and tastier shots.

[@NANA-gy7yx]

@@JackZtarrk it shouldn't go to 12 bars if your pump is set to 9 bars. Double check using a blind basket.

[@JackZtarrk]

@@NANA-gy7yx I checked and it does. The group head pressure measures 12 and the pump pressure 9. I thought it was due to the very fine grinds used in slayer shots

[@NANA-gy7yx]

@@JackZtarrk it shouldn't do that no matter how fine it is. Put the blind basket and when you calibrate the pump pressure keep an eye on the grouphead pressure and make sure it is on 9 bars. Otherwise, it may mean that the one of the monometers is broken

[@decentespressoailliobullet5748]

Good vid, thanks.... I've got a Decent Espresso DE-1 machine, and MANY of the profiles one can choose from include a pre-infusion phase... it seems to be the thing to do at the moment... except for the Turbo shots, as you say, which are very fast. I've not tried those much, but plan to do an A-B comparison, though very hard to do fairly when some beans/grinds may be more more suitable for one of those methods than the other. Also without two Decent machines, it's impossible to get the same temperatures in cup to A-B test properly.

[@noyb-yb]

for my own taste, my better double espressos (I use ratio of 15 grams in, 35 grams out, VST-15gr basket) have all been longer i.e. 35-40 seconds. Usually my 25-30 seconds extractions are "thinner" and less satisfying. So I tend to grind finer to slow the extraction by 5-10 seconds. I have Rancilio Silvia V3 so I dont have any pre-infusion. Sometimes I wonder if I should pour a tea-spoon or two of hot water on the top of the puck before I lock the naked portafilter in and press the extract button. Thoughts?

[@unol]

Long preinfusion seems to be the way to go for light roasts. I'd like to see you try out steep and release or "Rao" type shots. My technique is to get the puck saturated as fast as possible then pause infusion for around a minute, then push out a 1:3 shot at max flow rate. Hopefully the GS3 allows this technique. Its also worth looking at slow turbo shots: go for a turbo shot style grind but set the machine to its minimum flow rate and go for a 1:6 brew ratio, works well with light roast Kenyans.

[@Sprometheus]

Interesting! I’ve heard of this a couple times but haven’t explored it. That sounds like another video for sure! Thanks for the suggestion!

[@murraythebaker]

That’s stops being an espresso at all then. And just turns into using an espresso machine to make a pour over

[@murraythebaker]

@@RegrinderAlert it’s closer to a pour over than anything espresso-y.

[@murraythebaker]

@@RegrinderAlert I’m not going to reply to that statement till you’ve thought about what you just said

[@murraythebaker]

@@RegrinderAlert think about where the water is and how it goes through the puck/bed.

[@mikeyandcoffee]

Would you consider doing a slayer mode to your línea mini or some sort of pre infusion upgrade?

[@Sprometheus]

I did consider it, but I look at deep modifications like that as a gamble in terms of reliability and usability, I would rather invest in a machine capable of pressure profiling. But that’s just my take.

[@israeljoquintanilla1925]

What app did you use for the tds

[@floerdx]

I‘m currently experimenting with slayer style shots, using light filter roasts. I had some very nice cups. However, I find it hard to grind fine enough to to get to 25 second shots after the PI. I’m guessing that 98mm HU burrs are not necessarily made for these kinds of shots. Still, the shots seem to be sweeter, even if they run only 10 seconds after the 20 second PI.

[@Sprometheus]

Yeah I can see that, not all grinders are made to go that route and it can be a tripping point. If possible reduce the final pressure of the last 25 seconds, I had a lot of positive outcomes with a 6 bar final extraction too and didn’t run as fast.

[@BillB33525]

@@Sprometheus Suggested Slayer profile called for: Pre-infuse @ 3 bar till the water saturates the coffee - hit the coffee with 9 bars then let it decline to 5 over the shot.

[@GurgenPB2]

Having the same issue here… took a while to figure out it’s the HU burrs 98mm

[@whosgonnadotcom]

🤘 Slayer 🤘 Great video. Really need to add the dimmer mod to my GCP

[@Sprometheus]

Absolutely, I hear it’s a pretty simple one to do. Seems to be worth it.

[@whosgonnadotcom]

@@Sprometheus absolutely. I've got the shades PID and topbox, waiting for the. To release their dimmer and will add it and the gauge at the same time.

[@lesharbour]

Hi there. Long time subscriber and regular viewer and really enjoy your relaxing content. Just installed the Coffee Sensor Flow Control on my machine and am looking forward to experimenting with preinfusion times and varying flow throughout brewing. But I'm confused by your final thoughts... at 5:08 to 5:33 you said the Slayer Shot wasn't worth the extra effort, yet at 6:29 you said it was well worth trying. Great channel, keep it up👌😉

[@samneibauer4241]

I know that long preinfusions are extremely common when brewing on the Flair. Considering that you own a Flair, how would you compare the Slayer shots on your big machine to typical the long-preinfusion Flair shots?

[@Sprometheus]

Well I actually gave away all my Flair units awhile back, but from what I can recall I would say the temp loss from a flair has the most effect in terms of difference between the two, and how that effects the extraction is something I can’t say specifically. But I have another manual machine coming so maybe I’ll give it go!

[@coffee3470]

i had the Slayer and the Marzocco side-by-side and pulled the same coffee. they were different. i liked the slayer better that day, but decided that for my usecase, at my country (service and all) the LaMarzocco was the better choice. Today i don't beleve that the Slayer would taste better to me (since i have 5y Experience with my LM) nor do i beleve it would had been a better coice. But i also do not know, because today i don't have one sidebyside! All i can say: the Shots out of the Slayer can be outstanding.

[@scrawfordmusic]

Interesting! I’ve settled into a pretty long pre-infusion time recently with my LaPavoni Professional. I’ve been more or less doing a manual version of this. Didn’t know it was called the Slayer, though🤘😎🤘I’m gonna have to do some more experiments with it. Of course with a manual machine it’s harder to reproduce things consistently, but trying to is part of the fun for me anyway. Thanks for the great vids, man!

[@pintsizer]

Fantastic analysis and tutorial. Were you able to get the flow rate slow enough to replicate the slayer? I had an Rocket R NineOne and the found that line pressure was too high/fast at approx 2.5 to 3ml/sec rather than approx. 1.5 like a slayer. Not sure if the GS3 is similar given they’re both pressure profilers. Thanks for the effort - these vids must be rather time consuming

[@russellprice1976]

When dialling in a light roast I naturally meandered to doing a 45second shot on my machine and have been using it for a while now but didn't realize I was following the slayer shot lol😄

[@Sprometheus]

That’s what we call a happy accident

[@carlossanchez8534]

Sprometheus, do you have an opinion on the espresso grind out of Korea (I believe) the urbanic 070s? Would be great to hear your thoughts on it. Thank you

[@Sprometheus]

I’ve only heard of it, but I’d like to get my hands on it. But from the looks of it seems like the classic EK style which is solid.

[@carlossanchez8534]

@@Sprometheus well.. Hope you are able to get a hold of one.cant wait to watch your review on it. Thank you so much for your reply. Have a great weekend. God bless brother

[@robertgill1389]

It looks to me that the Slayer flow chart says preinfusion flow rates are to be greater for darker roasts…so if I’m to keep preinfusion to 20 seconds and extraction time to 30 seconds won’t I need to have an even finer grind for dark roast than for medium or light? I’m I missing something here??? This seems counter intuitive…

[@cmh_gentry]

How about mimicking a lever shot 🤔

[@golllum26]

Great video Spro! Can you please describe the steps you did on your GS3? I want to try it on mine. Cheers!

[@ahmxtb]

Does LMLM has preinfusion? I thin it has pre-brewing.

[@mikkoutevsky3902]

Super col to see one of my favorite local roasters on your channel - big fan of Wonderstate! I'm curious if you have a non-Slayer recipe for that Burundi Kibingo anaerobic. I've got a Gaggia (6.5 bar OPV spring these days), so no pressure/flow profiling (yet - gonna do the dimmer mod eventually). Thanks!

[@dtholloway28]

For the straight 9-bar shots, do you taste any difference between the Mini and the GS3?

[@toddpower4674]

Plumbed in synkronika does this perfect, with line pressure preinfusion and flow control..

[@Sprometheus]

Yeah, I didn’t try this exactly when I had the ECM but I can’t imagine it would work pretty well.

[@AlejandroPDX]

Which coffees do you use for your videos?

[@MaakBow]

@The Real Sprometheus I am about to get a gs3mp soon. Watching your experience with interest however I'm holding off to see what the Synesso ES1 turns out to be. I know there is a conceptual difference between the continuously variable padle of the gs3 vs switching paddle of the es1 but software may lessen those differences. Sprometheus, did you consider the Synesso ES1 at all?

[@Beau.Burchell]

Loved the reign in blood reference. 🔥🔥

[@lpsmaduk]

Interesting, I've thought about using this method with my elektra s1c manual lever machine. When I bring the handle down, the pressure is far less than when I release it and let the spring do its work. Not as controlled as the slayer, but interesting topic. Thanks

[@jeffpagnutti]

Hey Spro bro, wondering what you're using for basket size and dose? 18.5 and 1.8 ratio or so?

[@Sprometheus]

I’m using a 18 gram basket with a 17g dose

[@jeffpagnutti]

Thanks! I seem to have the issue of donut extractions, but grinding coarser isn't helping, so I've been adjusting dose... Back to the drawing board?

[@ahmed.dhaheri]

I personally tried the slayer shot on my lelit bianca by modifying the flow rate, no where near the shot produced by a slayer.

[@frankypc]

When i purchased my flow profiler for my e61 i went straight to slayer shots as it was a easy way to get going

[@jiinx72]

Wonder how accurate the DE-Pro slayer shot would be 🤔

[@leroythecoffeegeek4611]

Flow and pressure are not the same things. Obviously you can get very close using pressure as your guide but it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison with a machine that can flow profile.

[@Sprometheus]

True they aren’t the same thing, but in my experience they are two ways of achieving the same result. I considered going to my friends cafe who has a Slayer to try side by side but it could be a pain to do, maybe Slayer will want to send a loaner to test out.

[@fredito8242]

Underrated comment here. What was done in the video is not a slayer shot.

[@leroythecoffeegeek4611]

@@Sprometheus I’m not saying it wasn’t worthwhile, it’s definitely still interesting to see what you’ve achieved with long pre infusion. It’s really a pressure profiled shot though, more like a lever than a what you can get with flow control on a Slayer or DE1. Even a modified Breville Dual Boiler does flow control better than a GS3, although you’re flying blind to an extent without a whole heap of pre work to establish set points on the knob or pressure gauge. I get that a 1 group Slayer probably isn’t that easy to find, but surely there’s someone in San Diego with a DE1 that would be happy to collaborate with you. If you can make a side by side like this happen I for one would definitely be interested in the results.

[@louis-philippesmith606]

Have you considered a Slayer machine over your GS3? If not, happy to hear your thoughts on it!

[@TC_Prof]

Great video champ love it. Been doing this shot using my flair 58 and also e61 machine with flow control. Sweet! 🙏👌🏻👍

[@blurringsight]

Slayer & Londinium shots is my favourite one to get the best espresso from my Flair 58.

[@ozespresso]

Well, done. I think this is one of your best videos. I think many LM owners will appreciate this video and the topic needed for this breakdown. It could be nice to see the following video and your take about Pressure vs Flow when it comes to pulling a shot. Another tip I would add is to make sure the water tank is full and the drip tray is relatively empty as these long shots on the GS3 MP will divert a LOT of water to the drip tray. If it is not connected to the main water or drain, it could be annoying. Cheers! -Y

[@Sprometheus]

Thank you my friend! And yes on the water. It’s a lot of water. I found myself maybe making 5 or 6 shots before the tank is ready to refill. I would definitely like to go more into the topic of pressure vs flow and definitely expect to see my thoughts on that in the future for sure.

[@Squilliam-Fancyson]

To be totally honest the vast majority of coffee blends out there, even the lighter roasted ones, won't benefit from such long extraction times. Especially if extraction pressure wont decline after about 30sec into brewing. 9bars in the last stage of such a prolonged extraction won't give you anything but harsh and very bitter coffee notes. For me prolonged preinfusion(10sec+) with "normal length" main extraction time works best for most light roasts I tested so far. Dialing back pressure(with flow control kit on e61) to about 6bar in the last 10seconds of extraction greatly helps with preserving a good texture while avoiding bitter notes.

[@pspfreedom]

I have done long pre infusions on my picopresso (the only espresso stuff I have) but I encounter an increase in pressure, probably coming from the puck expansion. Should I fiddle with the grind size or on the dose?

[@Sprometheus]

Well that depends on what the outcome is. If the building pressure makes it harder to press and extract I’d fiddle with grind first. Then if it persists dose.

[@iconindexsymbol]

Ooh, try Londinium and Blooming next!

[@Sprometheus]

Blooming is on the list, but I’ll add Londinium too!

[@adamevans1989]

I really gotta mod my Sage Dual Boiler soon to try this and turbo shots....

[@Sprometheus]

I highly recommend both shots, I’m a fan!

[@javonazul]

Great video man. Would have been amazing to have the shot timer also in the "FULL VIEW SLAYER SHOT " part. I have been using this kind of shot pulling for the last 3 years and it's really the only way I do it. Best.

[@AbelandVictoria]

I want a gs3 now. Screw you 😂 is it worth it ?

[@wrtlprmpft2]

It is. Get the MP.

[@Sprometheus]

So far I’m really enjoying it, don’t have a lot to say on it yet. But expect a review in the coming months.

[@AbelandVictoria]

@@Sprometheus the ability to play with the paddle is Likely worth it I imagine. I currently own a linea mini have had it for 5 years or so. Starting to look at other machines.

[@Onedeag-qw3yc]

Raining blood shot actually sounds cool!

[@user-kd2ez2mb3c]

I've always unintentionally did slayer shots with the robot espresso lever.

[@tezzanewton]

Reign in blood 🩸 🤣🤣😂😂 You beat me to it, mate.

[@murraythebaker]

I never knew this was an actual thing but this is how I pour my shots on my flair

[@mikegreenaway9126]

@The Real Sprometheus, big fan of your honest and informative videos and I really appreciated this one! Would be really cool to see your thoughts and review on a lever coffee machine such as the Olympia Express Cremina or similar where you can manually manipulate temperature, flow and pressure 🙂

[@lothar1080]

Sounds easy to try on my Barista pro.

[@Sprometheus]

Give it a go!

[@jbstans]

SLAYEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRR 🤘

[@milstv178]

1:50 “The biggest difference … is a finer grind and extended shot time ” and yet at the same time the video shows you increasing your grind size. That was confusing.

[@ZacNotZac]

This man looks like if Wade Barnes got way into espresso.

[@robertusga]

So easy and repeatable on the Decent DE1.