Are Women’s Ministries Actually Biblical? | with Rachel Jankovic

[@RightResponseMinistries]

Subscribe to our KZbin channel for more content like this. To support Right Response Ministries, visit: rightresponseministries.com/donate/ Subscribe to Theology Applied full episodes below: Apple podcast: bit.ly/theologyapplied Spotify podcast: bit.ly/theologyappliedspotify If you live in the Austin area, Pastor Joel just started planting a brand new church called Covenant Bible Church in Hutto, Texas. He would love for you to come visit on a Sunday. Check out the church’s website for details: covenantbible.org/

[@krustysurfer]

Spiritually sound, grounded in scripture and love, too bad modern Babylonian culture pits women against men and is destroying the God given family ideal. God help us.

[@PneumaticTube]

When some people read the Scriptures they often do it with their defenses up. This is a fleshly mechanism designed to keep you from being convicted by the Holy Spirit toward repentance. The Bible is full of challenging verses that prod the most tender areas in each of us. Keep your ears, eyes, and heart open to God's Word and the overarching purpose for His creation.

[@skeinofadifferentcolor2090]

It has taken nearly my entire marriage to see that when women are described as being unclean after childbirth or during that time of the month it is actually an honorable term granting us women rest and recuperation, not a curse or degradation.

[@jackjones3657]

Great interview! 'The credibility in a church doesn't rest in the messenger, it is to rest in the Message.' Amen. How refreshing to see God-fearing women doing what God-fearing women are best at doing.

[@N81999]

Joel would you consider doing an episode on youth groups vs family/age integrated services

[@RightResponseMinistries]

Great idea.

[@samuelj.costner765]

Yes!

[@SarahR2D2]

I love family integrated services

[@nerychristian]

I never liked the idea of youth groups. As it is, young people spend enough time separated from older people. That's why young people feel awkward when they have to be around adults. Older people have so much wisdom to share with young people. Sometimes young people can learn so much just by listening in on discussions of older people

[@jamiedurrett4842]

Thank you for addressing this! I believe if you love the Lord and his word your going to honor what he says. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

[@sourclam904]

I'm a woman who wants to study the scriptures deeper. In my community women's Bible study, I bring up correct exegesis and hermeneutics, and they look at me with blank stares. I've wanted to study, for example, the postmillenial world view, presuppositional apologetics, partial and full preterist views and there is NO desire to do so with the other women. I just do it on my own. Or if I question false teachers they are following like TBN pastors, I get ostracized. We are in a time where we have access to so much information that we must learn and grow in biblical truth and its easier than ever to find resources to do this. It's more a social event often in this group. We are all older women but they just have a surface level view of scripture. As I study theology it has made me a better Christ follower, wife and friend. I have no kids, but I have a master's degree in children's education and have taught children's Bible studies. Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but seeking out God and His truth is a priority for me. I'm getting a lot of pushback on wanting to go deeper on theology. Sadly I'm finding that I have more understanding than a lot of men. My husband and I study together too. He is a newer Christian so it's an interesting dynamic. Thanks for posting.

[@nerychristian]

You are a rare woman. If only all women were like you. I feel bad for women like you who have to sit through women's study groups. It can be hard to even in men's groups to find men who are knowledgeable about theology. So I can't imagine how bad it is for women. I kind of wish I could marry a woman who is a new believer, because I think she would probably be curious and ask lots of questions about the bible, and it would encourage me to study and research, in order to be able to answer her questions

[@anchoraboveworship8404]

We're kindred spirits as they say!!! You are not alone. I could not relate to you anymore. I often am told that "I draw hard lines". Even though I am pushing for Biblical adherence! We have a similar dynamic. May the Lord bless you. Love, Tara

[@Christian_Life_Coach_LC]

Yes girl same same same!! I love and deeply desire to know God more, but I can’t find many women who don’t care for me because I’m not loving the world and my feelings above everything.

[@johngillingham5006]

It sounds like you should look into the apostolic church that is Eastern Orthodox

[@augiemay8677]

Why can't you live by me 😭.

[@RandallvanOosten-ln5wf]

I have been in the pastorate for over 45 years. In my lifetime I have seen women's ministry move from a blessing in which the women produced care-ministry packages for world missions, etc. Now women's ministry can suck up huge amounts of resources and weld enough power to impact the larger church. Additionally, the women's ministry is usually taught by women who often have no theological training. They can easily be the source of false or unbalanced teaching. Then they become resistant to male pastors' teaching their "classes." The flip side of this is that men's ministry gets the short end of the stick. Pastors often become uncomfortable with the men because they are usually NOT poltically correct and want unvarnished teaching. That unvarnished teaching ("the hard things") often is very unpopular with the women so the pastor polices what the men hear and say. Meanwhile, a strong men's ministry, built on strong teaching, builds the church FAR MORE than does the modern women's ministry. Feminism has a stronghold in the modern church.

[@nerychristian]

We don't need women's ministries. If women want to learn, they can learn the same things the men learn. Most of the time women's groups just become social clubs or therapy sessions

[@Talletc]

Feminism destroys everything it touches

[@patrickc3419]

Michelle Lesley, whom my wife introduced me to, is an extremely beneficial resource for women (and men too) in term of recommending biblical sound theologians.

[@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar]

Proverbs 27:6 KJV - Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

[@thewholeandholylife231]

I LOVE her. She’s so wise. Great interview and questions!

[@Juduh]

Glory to God.

[@erikawoods8975]

46:50 Gold!!

[@hollyharte7831]

This is such a good discussion.

[@raissamarking-fg9wl]

Did I hear the guest say that there is no reason a woman should get into reading commentaries? I agree that women should not be church pastors, but I don't believe the scriptures prohibit women from studying doctrine, etc. I hope I did not hear her correctly. (Also, I am grateful to God that a serious medical condition keeps me single.)

[@mujeresensupalabra9065]

There are men of God who interpret the scriptures correctly. I am happily married to one of them. He loves me and treats me like a fragile vessel and I submit to him. We study biblical doctrine together and he continues to be the head of my home. Thank God because we complement each other 🙌🏼. God's perfect design!

[@augiemay8677]

​@@mujeresensupalabra9065 I'm single. Does that mean I cannot draw off the teachings of other men?

[@Acontinuist]

The key to this biblical instruction is the word I. Paul doesn't say, it is not permitted for a woman to such and such. He says I do not permit a woman to etc etc!

[@mcasias33]

Timothy 2:12: I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. I don't have to like all the biblical restrictions, but I'm also not the omnipotent creator of the universe.

[@all4christnofilter915]

Amen!! It’s out of Gods order!!

[@karenwhitney4826]

This verse is grossly misinterpreted. In fact, the way you are interpreting it contradicts other portions of the Bible.

[@mcasias33]

@@karenwhitney4826 Such as?

[@mcasias33]

@@karenwhitney4826 You wrote "the way you're interpreting it contradicts other portions of the Bible." Notice, that my comment includes no interpretation, but merely a direct Bible verse written, and then me stating my opinion on following God's laws. Again, no interpretation.

[@karenwhitney4826]

@@mcasias33 , you are the perfect example of why God never placed men over women.

[@michaelalford7006]

Brother, its remarkable how much you've thinned out since this was done.

[@jefftube58]

"There's no trajectory." Exactly.

[@savedbygrace8337]

1 TIMOTHY 2:12:,12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. You either believe or you don’t.

[@taylorstevens8261]

Prior to " You either believe it or you don't", one may want to consider understanding the text and context.

[@14soccerplayer1]

@@taylorstevens8261 what context?

[@taylorstevens8261]

Cheryl Schatz on you tube Women in the Church Silenced or Set Free

[@hollyharte7831]

Yes this scripture

[@graftme3168]

A woman shouldn't teach a man or take authority over a man. That doesn't mean a woman shouldn't teach at all. The Bible instructs women to teach other women. Extreme religious rules is so Pharisaical.

[@graftme3168]

These people are a good example of adding doctrines of men to the Word of God and omitting some scriptures to back their false interpretation. Pharisees.

[@DCard-yw6ml]

These 2 are modern Pharisees. Their pride is off the roof. I hope they repent. Jesus spoke very harshly of the Pharisees in the Bible.

[@nerychristian]

Lol. What doctrine are they adding?

[@all4christnofilter915]

There’s not one scripture that permits a woman to preach/lead God’s people. Am I against women, not at all, but we must get the essence of what the scripture is teaching and not take things personal all the time! Ministry is a leadership position, and how confusing is it for God to put the man as the head of his house, and come to church and be subject to the leader of the church (wife pastor)? It makes no sense, and God certainly is not the author of confusion! Women have beautiful roles in the church, but preaching is not one of them. Jus be continent and grateful wherever God place you!!

[@8784-l3b]

you wrote: There’s not one scripture that permits a woman to preach/lead God’s people. Then how was Deborah a judge in Israel? How was it possible that "the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment."? How could she have been over Barak, the commander of Israel's forces?

[@jamesjones68]

Judge's aren't to be mixed up with preachers.

[@8784-l3b]

@@jamesjones68 Deborah was also a prophetess. Therefore in our time above "third teachers". God has put these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings,.. -excerpt 1 Corinthians 12

[@karenwhitney4826]

There are no properly interpreted verses in the Bible that prohibit wome from preaching.

[@8784-l3b]

@@karenwhitney4826 I believe that women can and should teach the gospel message, to both men and women. If women can teach the most important of all teachings, it makes no sense to me when people say they can't teach the lesser teachings.

[@OGDreamer]

Rachel this was beautiful ✝️

[@SarahR2D2]

From what I read in the bible, Titus 2 should be the focus of women's groups. Believers have a divorce rate that parallels the word. Maybe if the focus would be on Titus 2 our marriages would be better

[@RightResponseMinistries]

Amen.

[@karenwhitney4826]

Our marriages would be better if men and women were treated as equal, as God treats us.

[@TheLordismyportion]

@@karenwhitney4826Equal does not mean the same.

[@karenwhitney4826]

Thank you caption obvious.. I didn't say same, I said equal.

[@TheLordismyportion]

@@karenwhitney4826 But what do you mean by equal?

[@georgepoirier9014]

Excellent discussion.

[@katharinematlock5710]

You guys are painting very broad strokes. There is great benefit to women's ministry & Bible study. Obviously there have been plenty that have gone wrong, but to call them all wrong is a major fail on your part.

[@reniermedia]

So God's word fails? Please explain.

[@DCard-yw6ml]

Agree. these 2 are filled with pride. They act like they are better than other Christians. Yikes. This is what modern Pharisees look like.

[@nerychristian]

Tell me. What do you learn at a woman's bible study that you couldn't have learned from a regular Bible study?

[@robertboebinger7719]

Luke you’re a blessed man!!!!!

[@swordman802]

If women shouldn't teach other women theology and doctrine and Titus 2 contains theology and doctrine then women shouldn't teach other women Titus 2 right Joel....?

[@mujeresensupalabra9065]

👏🏼

[@nerychristian]

Who says women can't teach other women theology?

[@lovelyandsmartcommentator5130]

I question the PATERARCIAL CONCEPT.

[@carihaan3127]

I'm curious about what you would say about Job's friends who were insisting his suffering was a result of a grievous sin. I'm assuming the difference here is calling out sin only when we're certain the person is in sin?

[@InvincibleExtremes]

They weren't a witness to his sin, they were only a witness to his suffering and simply made their erroneous assumptions.

[@nathan3942]

Amazing talk 👌

[@jtbruchaurd3024]

Staying silent in church is not a "roie". A women teaching another woman (what a horrible crime). Joel: "Women are called to work inside the home" and "to build up her husband's home".

[@marisameans9859]

Have no idea how this ended up in suggested viewing.

[@benjaminbaumann475]

I have very big reservations about the defense of male dominance in the Church. Why not perform more hermaneutical backflips by using an excerpt Paul or Peter's letters or why don't you use the same argumentation when exegeting Philemon?

[@oxanalallmann6624]

Pastor need a courage to preach the whole word… in my former church we, some women, asked our pastors and elders to preach Thimothy letters, especially about the role of the woman. They never did it. We, women, were pushing on them that it is not allowed for women to preach. But in order not to offend some feminist believers they never did it and even asked us if we would like to look for another church for us… 😁

[@nerychristian]

Oh wow. That doesn't sound like a good church.

[@RoseCityMusicClub]

I believe the first women’s ministry was the serpent and Eve ministering to adam

[@patriciagrant6687]

Great conversation!!

[@josephgardiner4405]

Sorry, you lost me from the beginning by having that woman on the show telling about women in.ministry. Not scriptural. She has nothing to say to me.

[@CatfishHeaven777]

No. You’re welcome

[@samiam159007]

It would help to stop platforming woman bible teachers...in love. It would do lots of good to stop platforming women on these podcasts in general. The issue starts with giving these women their platforms.

[@graftme3168]

This is a command IN THE CHURCH, not outside the church. Big diff.

[@samiam159007]

@@graftme3168 It doesn't say "In the church" in the passage... If you want to make an argument that "in the church" is the specific context you'll need to make your case from scripture.

[@graftme3168]

@@samiam159007The entire passage is about behavior IN THE CHURCH!

[@nerychristian]

You both have good points. Sometimes women might be tempted to begin teaching online as a way to bypass the mandates in the church. Does the woman have the blessing of her pastor or elders to do her online teaching?

[@fearfullywoven]

So if we get rid of women's ministry, are we also going to get rid of men's and youth ministries?

[@nerychristian]

Hopefully. I never understood why the church needs to be fragmented by gender or age. Everyone should learn together, by whomever is most able to teach well

[@tropheuspeste]

I learned quite a bit today from Rachel, should I repent for allowing a woman to teach a man ? Or is that on her ? 🤔

[@skeinofadifferentcolor2090]

If that woman is your wife, then yes. If you are in church leadership, then yes. If not pray for the Holy Spirit to convict her of her sins.

[@tropheuspeste]

@@nohomo4774 well either way neither woman nor man can have authority over me as the Bible is my authority which speaks through the Holy Spirit . In Paul's day , in Ephesus the pagan god of Artemis taught that women must worship her to be kept safe during childbirth as she is their protector . Artemis was believed to have been conceived first before her twin brother Apollo and so has authority. The Greek philosophers such as Aristotle had a low view of woman and considered them to be 2nd class citizens. Praise be to God that Jesus came to bring good news of salvation to both Jew and Greek

[@Bible33AD]

If you think you should repent then perhaps the Apostle Paul should too... for singling out Timothy' grandmother for teaching him and raising him in the faith, for praising Priscilla for teaching Apollo, for Phoebe being a Deacon, for Lydia and Junia being his co-workers and getting arrested with him (they didn't get arrested for tent making which was Paul's other job). Then we have to deal with Jesus... He announced His messiahship first to a woman and she preached it and spread the word. He made a woman the 1st evangelist to the world that incredible Sunday morning. He considered woman worthy of recieving theology... the story of Mary and Martha. And He gave no instruction to Mary to not share and spread His word. He was radically counter cultural when it came to women. All 4 gospel attest to women being the 1st Jesus announced and revealed His resurrection to, in 1 Corinthians Paul says it was to Peter 1st. Are the Gospels wrong or is Paul wrong? Or... is there a 3rd explanation/possibility?

[@DCard-yw6ml]

She lives by the principle "Do what I say, not what I do" Rachel is a hyporcrite

[@nerychristian]

Did you really learn anything from her? The only thing she confirms is what the bible already teaches about women. That they should submit to their husbands and focus on raising godly children.

[@gershamwehner4344]

Are there subtle potshots at Paul Washer in here around the 20 min mark? because he sure tells men to quit acting like boys a lot, something that is much needed while people like Doug Wilson use provocative language and encourage a man-boy culture.

[@gershamwehner4344]

[Insert a-contextual, shallow reply about the prophets and Paul using strong language to justify all crass language.] Eph 4-5

[@PamalaNEW]

I was raised Pentecostal. As an adult born-again believer I had to reject the idea that a person is not saved if they don't speak in tongues because that's not what the Bible teaches. I do believe in the gift of tongues and I do believe that when you are filled to overflowing with the holy Spirit you will speak in tongues because everyone who was filled to overflowing spoke in tongues and there's no story of anyone who didn't except for Jesus himself who was in fact the very Express image of God. We are not The Express image of God and that's why God gave gifts so that we could participate in demonstrating the power of his holy Spirit. The true church will operate in the gifts of the Spirit including the sign gifts and there's nothing in the Bible that says they will says they will cease no matter how many calvinist try to push that doctrinal error. However with all that said I also do not agree that women are permitted to lead ministries! There is also no example of a woman being the head of a ministry or the head of any type of movement or whatever when it came to the ministry of Jesus and the New testament Church there for women are not supposed to be leaders of a church. There's also no such thing biblically as a co-pastor! Every bit of that co-pastor garbage is a bunch of lawless liberals who have mixed culture with the church which is precisely what God said not to do! In mingling culture with church they are trying to appease the masses and that's exactly what Rome was doing when all of the Reformation garbage came about. The King James Bible is the only authorized version of the Bible and GOD did that work through the hands of men because he was fulfilling a promise that he would preserve his word to every generation it had nothing to do with being reformed or changing or doing something new it was basically him putting his word on paper for all the world to read. The Reformation was a religious ideology that prideful philosophical men exalted so that they could try to Lord themselves over others which is what Jesus preached against! Women can't be leaders the Reformation was not a move of the holy Spirit and Calvinism is a cult.

[@nerychristian]

Lol. There are plenty of believers who are not calvinists that believe that some of the gifts no longer exist today. More specifically the gift of healing or the gift of miracles. I don't know any Christians who have the gift of healing. Or who are performing miracles on a regular basis

[@PamalaNEW]

@@nerychristian The Bible doesn't say they would be performed on a regular basis. Why would you just the work of God based on your made up understanding instead of what the book says?

[@nerychristian]

@@PamalaNEW If it's not performed on a regular basis, then it's not a gift. How come those who have the gift of teaching can teach on a regular basis. So can those who have the gift of serving. And those who have the gift of music can play music every service. And those who have the gift of tongues can pray in tongues for every service. But never seen people heal the way the disciples of Christ could travel through Israel healing people and casting out demons

[@PamalaNEW]

@@nerychristian I don't claim to have every answer I only answer according to my understanding of the Bible. Out of every gift you mentioned that's used in a church service, those are all used to edify the body of Christ. Healing is not an edification gift. Also the other things you mentioned were used in the Bible on a regular basis but healing was not on a regular basis it was only when the necessity arose. Also healing isn't something you go and force upon people every instance in the Bible where someone was healed it was because they came seeking the healing! I get tired of hearing religious hacks criticized the Bible by saying why aren't they going and emptying out hospitals. Well the reason is because every instance of healing in the Bible did not happen unless the person sought out the healer and sought out the healing Jesus did not go seeking sick people the sick people came seeking him so why would he give the gift and we operate in the same Grace as Jesus but why would we twist that gift and use it backwards Jesus never said go seek sick ppl! the reason the gift of healing works when the person seeks the healing is because you won't seek something unless you have faith that it will happen and every instance in the Bible of someone being healed started with their FAITH TO BELIEVE! I think it's funny that Calvinists always criticize the healing gift but they completely ignore the order of the word of God and how those feelings happened so it's funny that they claim to be the ones who are so doctrinally Sola scriptura yet you can't find one story in the Bible that fits their so-called healing gift narrative. People don't get healed if they don't seek the healer and people don't get healed if they don't believe that God will heal them and people don't get healed if they won't receive what God is doing for them. There's not one story in the Bible where Jesus went to someone and demanded that they take a healing whether they like it or not!

[@glennchristie2316]

If you read your Bible you’d know. The Apostle Paul tells you the answer in 1 Timothy…

[@mjack3521]

Easy believism? 😂 Hard believism? Faith + Law 😂. Jesus said my yoke is easy. Theonomist want to bring everyone under the law.

[@nerychristian]

I think when people say "easy believism" they are referring to people who say they are Christians, but they lack the fruit of the holy spirit, and live their lives without seeking sanctification or spiritual growth. People who never pray or read their bible.

[@willielee5253]

@Genesis 12:3 = Matthew 25:31-46 Abraham God's Friend Jesus the Christ goats sheep Matthew 6:20-21. (20. But lay up for yourselves treasures in Heaven...(21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. God bless you!!!

[@marylamb6063]

I taught Attic and "Koine" Greek for 30 years in Europe for classics students. This is before I believed in the Lord Jesus. The English translations of the NT are 60% accurate, but there is a lot of work that needs to be done. Lexicons are worthless because they are biased. It's better to immerse yourself in Attic (Aristotle), then partial Attic (Xenophon), them jump to Koine. Many Bible teachings on the Internet are inaccurate. Many passages are "best guesses" because transcribers, unlike the Massoreh, didn't write explanations as to the difficulties of certain passages. Sometimes they left a word space to give us pause but they didn't tell us why. And we do have differences among the manuscripts.

[@gershamwehner4344]

60% accurate? What in the world are you talking about? My masters is in koine Greek, I’m familiar with classical, I e studied under numerous translators, and I’ve been reading Greek for almost two decades. Your comment is false and makes no sense whatsoever. Our translations are very accurate.

[@swordman802]

Joel: If women should not teach other women doctrine and theology then women cannot teach other women the doctrines of Theology, revelation, discipleship, anthropology, sociology, family and marriage which are the foundational doctrines for the commandments given in Titus 2:4-5 as well correct? See: 4 Then they can urge (discipleship) the younger women (anthropology/gender) to love their husbands (marriage) and children (sociology/family), 5 to be self-controlled (sanctification) and pure, to be busy at home (sociology),to be kind, and to be subject (authority) to their husbands (marriage), so that no one will malign (Sin) the word (revelation) of God (theology).

[@SarahR2D2]

That is not going on in any church that I have been to. This ministry is lacking, hence our divorce rate mirroring that of unbelievers. Instead women ministries are just sermons coming from women.

[@DCard-yw6ml]

Well said sowrdman

[@brewerbrewer5988]

The podcast is long, the answer short: no

[@reginasemenenko148]

I'm glax our church has many womens ministries.

[@Jesussaves3323]

We once attended a church where we were forced to address the pastors wife as pastor,not sis,not by her name unless it had pastor cuppled with it.I never felt right about it and would call her sis then they would deliver a condemning message from the pulpit as to why you are suppose to honor your authority that God has placed in your life. Don’t get me wrong I honored the pastor because he taught us the word and because God says to in Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you,for they watch for your souls! Though I didn’t agree with certain things I do have to give credit to that sister in Christ because I learned so much from her as well even though some things weren’t in order if that still is worth saying!By the grace of God!

[@graftme3168]

Honoring the pastor over your family is NOT biblical. That's terrible.

[@Jesussaves3323]

@@graftme3168 I’m just realizing autocorrect messed up what I intended to say….I NEVER honored a pastor over my family!! I corrected that! I meant to say even though I disagreed with abuse of authority I still honored the pastor out of reverence to Gods word.😊

[@nerychristian]

Any man who demands you call him Pastor is questionable. Sounds like a lack of humility

[@arielcherchio493]

I'm trying to make sure I understand one part of what she said clearly. Is she saying that women are free to read theological books out of love of the word or enjoyment but we shouldn't be using those text to go toe to toe theologically with men or to take the role of teacher?

[@karenwhitney4826]

I know right. What a tangled web they weave.

[@DCard-yw6ml]

Yes! I dont trust her or her family. They speak from both sides of their mouth.

[@nerychristian]

What's wrong with reading theology for your own edification? Of course everyone should seek to grow in the knowledge of the scriptures. That doesn't mean you have to teach in the church. I'm a man, and I spend a lot of time studying the bible. Doesn't mean that makes me a teacher. Every Christian should be studying the bible. Just like if you are a woman who loves cooking and learning new recipes, doesn't mean you have to go work at a restaurant

[@velkyn1]

and yet more disagreement on the "truth". Shucks.

[@dr.k.t.varughese3151]

Then why did Paul ask women should be silent in church? Under the influence of Satan, anything is possible; Pastors who untie the teachings of Jesus, women who fail to understand the teachings of St.Paul. Protestant theology, which distort the teachings of Jesus came from lusting mind who couldn't control their desires for lust and wealth, whereas apostolic churches were established by the true disciples who remained in the teachings of Jesus according to John 8 31.

[@DCard-yw6ml]

Rachel Jankovic is so prideful, talking as if she is better than all other women. She does not have any compassion for women that might struggle. This is very different that the "lowly and gentle heart" Jesus has. I hope she is not too blinded by her pride and realizes her error. The way she talks down on women at churches is a disgrace.

[@sovereigncnc3025]

We look for people to parrot and pamper us.